Guys, I picked up a rusty piece of steel and needing to turn it down I tried
cutting it in my band saw. Lo and behold, it would only cut about 3/16"
deep. I tried to cut a section off with my acetylene torch and it wouldn't
even get red!!!! Finally had to grind it in two. It looks like a 1 5/8"
diameter rod with a half inch hole down the center. Further examination
reveals that it is a piece of soft steel (1018?) surrounding a harder
(obviously) tube. Specs follow:
OD 1.630. Diameter of core piece 1.245. Diameter of hole is .535. The
core is packed with with what looks like rusty swarf, or chips. But they
are only mildly attracted to a magnet. The hard core piece machines nicely
with carbide, and the chips are magnetic. The outer tube appears to be mild
steel. On a polished end, there is apparently a very thin layer of copper
or brass between the outer and inner pieces. But the most remarkable thing
is that I held the flame of the cutting torch on the core piece for at least
5 minutes without it getting hot enough to cut. Oh, color of the grinding
sparks is almost the same as the sparks from the outer tube, IOW low carbon
steel sparks.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the material is, what it is
used for, or how it was made. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks, James Johnson
Bewildered in Texas

Not sure from what it is made, but a fellow I used to work with that used to
be a prison guard once told me that the bars in jail cells had inner bars
that rolled so that it would impede sawing with a hacksaw to hinder escape
plans. I cant imagine what the material is that would not get hot with your
torch.


"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
Guys, I picked up a rusty piece of steel and needing to turn it down I
tried
cutting it in my band saw. Lo and behold, it would only cut about 3/16"
deep. I tried to cut a section off with my acetylene torch and it
wouldn't
even get red!!!! Finally had to grind it in two. It looks like a 1 5/8"
diameter rod with a half inch hole down the center. Further examination
reveals that it is a piece of soft steel (1018?) surrounding a harder
(obviously) tube. Specs follow:
OD 1.630. Diameter of core piece 1.245. Diameter of hole is .535. The
core is packed with with what looks like rusty swarf, or chips. But they
are only mildly attracted to a magnet. The hard core piece machines
nicely
with carbide, and the chips are magnetic. The outer tube appears to be
mild
steel. On a polished end, there is apparently a very thin layer of copper
or brass between the outer and inner pieces. But the most remarkable
thing
is that I held the flame of the cutting torch on the core piece for at
least
5 minutes without it getting hot enough to cut. Oh, color of the grinding
sparks is almost the same as the sparks from the outer tube, IOW low
carbon
steel sparks.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the material is, what it is
used for, or how it was made. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks, James Johnson
Bewildered in Texas

Grady wrote:
Not sure from what it is made, but a fellow I used to work with that used to
be a prison guard once told me that the bars in jail cells had inner bars
that rolled so that it would impede sawing with a hacksaw to hinder escape
plans. I cant imagine what the material is that would not get hot with your
torch.

Unobtanium

I found an improvised tool-looking item at a flea market a couple years ago,
and stumbled across it a few days ago.
I wanted it for the handle, which has a hollow steel section with a turned
wooden handle, maybe part of an old electric soldering iron.
It had an odd piece screwed into the end that almost looks like JB epoxy
(but harder), with some weird quartz-looking particles in it. An old file
just skidded across it.

I touched it to a running AO grinding wheel, and zingo.. clean wheel. Unlike
a single point dresser, this part seems to be steel (about 5/8" diameter)
with a pocket filled with chunks of diamond.

WB
...........

"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
Guys, I picked up a rusty piece of steel and needing to turn it down I
tried
cutting it in my band saw. Lo and behold, it would only cut about 3/16"
deep. I tried to cut a section off with my acetylene torch and it
wouldn't
even get red!!!! Finally had to grind it in two. It looks like a 1 5/8"
diameter rod with a half inch hole down the center. Further examination
reveals that it is a piece of soft steel (1018?) surrounding a harder
(obviously) tube. Specs follow:
OD 1.630. Diameter of core piece 1.245. Diameter of hole is .535. The
core is packed with with what looks like rusty swarf, or chips. But they
are only mildly attracted to a magnet. The hard core piece machines
nicely
with carbide, and the chips are magnetic. The outer tube appears to be
mild
steel. On a polished end, there is apparently a very thin layer of copper
or brass between the outer and inner pieces. But the most remarkable
thing
is that I held the flame of the cutting torch on the core piece for at
least
5 minutes without it getting hot enough to cut. Oh, color of the grinding
sparks is almost the same as the sparks from the outer tube, IOW low
carbon
steel sparks.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the material is, what it is
used for, or how it was made. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks, James Johnson
Bewildered in Texas






----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

In article ,
says...


For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the material is, what it is
used for, or how it was made. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks, James Johnson
Bewildered in Texas




Sounds like you have one of the hinges of Hell. They are made
from Hellium, a metal that is extremely hard, has a low
coefficient of friction and is impervious to heat.

"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
| Guys, I picked up a rusty piece of steel and needing to turn it down I
tried
| cutting it in my band saw. Lo and behold, it would only cut about 3/16"
| deep. I tried to cut a section off with my acetylene torch and it
wouldn't
| even get red!!!! Finally had to grind it in two. It looks like a 1 5/8"
| diameter rod with a half inch hole down the center. Further examination
| reveals that it is a piece of soft steel (1018?) surrounding a harder
| (obviously) tube. Specs follow:
| OD 1.630. Diameter of core piece 1.245. Diameter of hole is .535. The
| core is packed with with what looks like rusty swarf, or chips. But they
| are only mildly attracted to a magnet. The hard core piece machines
nicely
| with carbide, and the chips are magnetic. The outer tube appears to be
mild
| steel. On a polished end, there is apparently a very thin layer of copper
| or brass between the outer and inner pieces. But the most remarkable
thing
| is that I held the flame of the cutting torch on the core piece for at
least
| 5 minutes without it getting hot enough to cut. Oh, color of the grinding
| sparks is almost the same as the sparks from the outer tube, IOW low
carbon
| steel sparks.
|
| For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the material is, what it is
| used for, or how it was made. Anyone have any ideas?
|
| Thanks, James Johnson
| Bewildered in Texas

I haven't checked my brain before engaging my mouth here, but doesn't
steel alloyed with zirconium do something like this or am I all wet?

JRJohnson wrote:
Guys, I picked up a rusty piece of steel and needing to turn it down
I tried
cutting it in my band saw. Lo and behold, it would only cut about
3/16"
deep. I tried to cut a section off with my acetylene torch and it
wouldn't
even get red!!!! Finally had to grind it in two. It looks like a 1
5/8"
diameter rod with a half inch hole down the center. Further
examination
reveals that it is a piece of soft steel (1018?) surrounding a harder
(obviously) tube. Specs follow:
OD 1.630. Diameter of core piece 1.245. Diameter of hole is .535.
The
core is packed with with what looks like rusty swarf, or chips. But
they
are only mildly attracted to a magnet. The hard core piece machines
nicely
with carbide, and the chips are magnetic. The outer tube appears to
be mild
steel. On a polished end, there is apparently a very thin layer of
copper
or brass between the outer and inner pieces. But the most remarkable
thing
is that I held the flame of the cutting torch on the core piece for
at least
5 minutes without it getting hot enough to cut. Oh, color of the
grinding
sparks is almost the same as the sparks from the outer tube, IOW low
carbon
steel sparks.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the material is, what it
is
used for, or how it was made. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks, James Johnson
Bewildered in Texas

Such properties would be handy for locking bars for a vault door, just
another wild-ass guess. Most I've seen have been plated, though. As
to how to make it, one way might be to stuff the various materials into
a larger, hollow billet for the outside, heat it up and roll them all
out together.


Stan
Stan

JRJohnson wrote:
Guys, I picked up a rusty piece of steel and needing to turn it down
I tried
cutting it in my band saw. Lo and behold, it would only cut about
3/16"
deep. I tried to cut a section off with my acetylene torch and it
wouldn't
even get red!!!! Finally had to grind it in two. It looks like a 1
5/8"
diameter rod with a half inch hole down the center. Further
examination
reveals that it is a piece of soft steel (1018?) surrounding a harder
(obviously) tube. Specs follow:
OD 1.630. Diameter of core piece 1.245. Diameter of hole is .535.
The
core is packed with with what looks like rusty swarf, or chips. But
they
are only mildly attracted to a magnet. The hard core piece machines
nicely
with carbide, and the chips are magnetic. The outer tube appears to
be mild
steel. On a polished end, there is apparently a very thin layer of
copper
or brass between the outer and inner pieces. But the most remarkable
thing
is that I held the flame of the cutting torch on the core piece for
at least
5 minutes without it getting hot enough to cut. Oh, color of the
grinding
sparks is almost the same as the sparks from the outer tube, IOW low
carbon
steel sparks.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the material is, what it
is
used for, or how it was made. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks, James Johnson
Bewildered in Texas

Such properties would be handy for locking bars for a vault door, just
another wild-ass guess. Most I've seen have been plated, though. As
to how to make it, one way might be to stuff the various materials into
a larger, hollow billet for the outside, heat it up and roll them all
out together.


Stan
Stan

JRJohnson wrote:

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the material is, what it is
used for, or how it was made. Anyone have any ideas?

Nuclear power plant fuel rod?????
Ooops!!!!


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Wild Bill" wrote in
:

I touched it to a running AO grinding wheel, and zingo.. clean wheel.
Unlike a single point dresser, this part seems to be steel (about 5/8"
diameter) with a pocket filled with chunks of diamond.

What you have there sounds like a diamond grinding wheel dresser.

--

Dan

"Tom" wrote in message
...


JRJohnson wrote:

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the material is, what it is
used for, or how it was made. Anyone have any ideas?

Nuclear power plant fuel rod?????
Ooops!!!!

Believe it or not, that thought (fuel rod) occurred to me, but since I am
still here and not glowing, I presume that it wasn't radioactive.

Carls' suggestion about steel/zirconium might have some validity. Need to
check on the melting temp of such a mix.

Oh, the inner piece will not turn inside the outer sheath, so it is not a
prison bar.

Thanks to all.

JRJ


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----

"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
Nuclear power plant fuel rod?????
Ooops!!!!

Believe it or not, that thought (fuel rod) occurred to me, but since I am
still here and not glowing, I presume that it wasn't radioactive.

Well, I doubt the casing itself would have much residual radioactivity,
despite the large neutron flux it handles in use.

Zr isn't magnetic though, and likely throws bright white sparks just like
titanium. I'm not aware of any iron alloys, seems to me it'd be brittle,
but it might exist. (Nothing with 10% of each comes up on Matweb.)

Tim

--
"California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes."
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Tim Williams wrote:
"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
Nuclear power plant fuel rod?????
Ooops!!!!

Believe it or not, that thought (fuel rod) occurred to me, but
since I am
still here and not glowing, I presume that it wasn't radioactive.

It takes a hell of a dose of radiation to produce symptoms within
hours of exposure. Also the effects are cumulative. If the fuel
rod were used, lots of people including yourself would be in big
trouble. If it were unsused, you are probably OK but some other
people will still be in big trouble.


Well, I doubt the casing itself would have much residual
radioactivity,
despite the large neutron flux it handles in use.


Uh, 'much' is a relative term. As noted above, the effects of
exposure are cumulative.


Zr isn't magnetic though, and likely throws bright white sparks just
like
titanium. I'm not aware of any iron alloys, seems to me it'd be
brittle,
but it might exist. (Nothing with 10% of each comes up on Matweb.)


The casing for most reactor fuel is called zircaloy, don't know the
composition of that alloy. TRIGA's use some sort of stable hydride
(though maybe inside a thin layer of something else).

--

FF

wrote in message
ups.com...

Tim Williams wrote:
"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
Nuclear power plant fuel rod?????
Ooops!!!!

Believe it or not, that thought (fuel rod) occurred to me, but
since I am
still here and not glowing, I presume that it wasn't radioactive.

It takes a hell of a dose of radiation to produce symptoms within
hours of exposure. Also the effects are cumulative. If the fuel
rod were used, lots of people including yourself would be in big
trouble. If it were unsused, you are probably OK but some other
people will still be in big trouble.


Well, I doubt the casing itself would have much residual
radioactivity,
despite the large neutron flux it handles in use.


Uh, 'much' is a relative term. As noted above, the effects of
exposure are cumulative.


Zr isn't magnetic though, and likely throws bright white sparks just
like
titanium. I'm not aware of any iron alloys, seems to me it'd be
brittle,
but it might exist. (Nothing with 10% of each comes up on Matweb.)


The casing for most reactor fuel is called zircaloy, don't know the
composition of that alloy. TRIGA's use some sort of stable hydride
(though maybe inside a thin layer of something else).

--

FF

Do fuel rods have an outer sheath of mild steel? Don't think so, but this
was obviously constructed to hold the 'swarf' (for lack of a better term) in
the center hole. Still beats the hell out of me.

Research into zirconium was productive only in that I learned that the
melting temp was around 3350 degrees F.

Still wondering, JRJ

"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
SNIP
| Do fuel rods have an outer sheath of mild steel? Don't think so, but this
| was obviously constructed to hold the 'swarf' (for lack of a better term)
in
| the center hole. Still beats the hell out of me.
|
| Research into zirconium was productive only in that I learned that the
| melting temp was around 3350 degrees F.
|
| Still wondering, JRJ

Something just came to me. What's the possibility this is a valve stem
from a large industrial engine? Seems to make sense, but I don't know big
engines. You talked about the heating problem, where the thermal
conductivity of the part was really high, you had a hard steel outside, and
the copper ensured that the center, which served as the heat conductor, was
able to transfer the heat nicely. Does this make sense?

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 01:40:09 GMT, "JRJohnson"
wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...

Tim Williams wrote:
"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
Nuclear power plant fuel rod?????
Ooops!!!!

Believe it or not, that thought (fuel rod) occurred to me, but
since I am
still here and not glowing, I presume that it wasn't radioactive.

It takes a hell of a dose of radiation to produce symptoms within
hours of exposure. Also the effects are cumulative. If the fuel
rod were used, lots of people including yourself would be in big
trouble. If it were unsused, you are probably OK but some other
people will still be in big trouble.


Well, I doubt the casing itself would have much residual
radioactivity,
despite the large neutron flux it handles in use.


Uh, 'much' is a relative term. As noted above, the effects of
exposure are cumulative.


Zr isn't magnetic though, and likely throws bright white sparks just
like
titanium. I'm not aware of any iron alloys, seems to me it'd be
brittle,
but it might exist. (Nothing with 10% of each comes up on Matweb.)


The casing for most reactor fuel is called zircaloy, don't know the
composition of that alloy. TRIGA's use some sort of stable hydride
(though maybe inside a thin layer of something else).

--

FF

Do fuel rods have an outer sheath of mild steel? Don't think so, but this
was obviously constructed to hold the 'swarf' (for lack of a better term) in
the center hole. Still beats the hell out of me.

Research into zirconium was productive only in that I learned that the
melting temp was around 3350 degrees F.

Still wondering, JRJ

As I recall, steel swells up with the bombardment from neutrons. And
sticks in the reactor. Which makes it hard to withdraw. Seems like the
Russians had this problem discovered the hard way. But it was a long
time ago.
ERS

Stop giving that man advice - He's trying to break out of jail! :-)

Grady wrote:
Not sure from what it is made, but a fellow I used to work with that
used to
be a prison guard once told me that the bars in jail cells had inner
bars
that rolled so that it would impede sawing with a hacksaw to hinder
escape
plans. I cant imagine what the material is that would not get hot
with your
torch.


"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
Guys, I picked up a rusty piece of steel and needing to turn it
down I
tried
cutting it in my band saw. Lo and behold, it would only cut about
3/16"
deep. I tried to cut a section off with my acetylene torch and it

wouldn't
even get red!!!! Finally had to grind it in two. It looks like a
1 5/8"
diameter rod with a half inch hole down the center. Further
examination
reveals that it is a piece of soft steel (1018?) surrounding a
harder
(obviously) tube. Specs follow:
OD 1.630. Diameter of core piece 1.245. Diameter of hole is .535.
The
core is packed with with what looks like rusty swarf, or chips.
But they
are only mildly attracted to a magnet. The hard core piece
machines
nicely
with carbide, and the chips are magnetic. The outer tube appears
to be
mild
steel. On a polished end, there is apparently a very thin layer of
copper
or brass between the outer and inner pieces. But the most
remarkable
thing
is that I held the flame of the cutting torch on the core piece for
at
least
5 minutes without it getting hot enough to cut. Oh, color of the
grinding
sparks is almost the same as the sparks from the outer tube, IOW
low
carbon
steel sparks.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the material is, what
it is
used for, or how it was made. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks, James Johnson
Bewildered in Texas

this could be a heat pipe - check out that technology and see if it makes
sense



"MikeMandaville" wrote in message
oups.com...
Stop giving that man advice - He's trying to break out of jail! :-)

Grady wrote:
Not sure from what it is made, but a fellow I used to work with that
used to
be a prison guard once told me that the bars in jail cells had inner
bars
that rolled so that it would impede sawing with a hacksaw to hinder
escape
plans. I cant imagine what the material is that would not get hot
with your
torch.


"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
Guys, I picked up a rusty piece of steel and needing to turn it
down I
tried
cutting it in my band saw. Lo and behold, it would only cut about
3/16"
deep. I tried to cut a section off with my acetylene torch and it

wouldn't
even get red!!!! Finally had to grind it in two. It looks like a
1 5/8"
diameter rod with a half inch hole down the center. Further
examination
reveals that it is a piece of soft steel (1018?) surrounding a
harder
(obviously) tube. Specs follow:
OD 1.630. Diameter of core piece 1.245. Diameter of hole is .535.
The
core is packed with with what looks like rusty swarf, or chips.
But they
are only mildly attracted to a magnet. The hard core piece
machines
nicely
with carbide, and the chips are magnetic. The outer tube appears
to be
mild
steel. On a polished end, there is apparently a very thin layer of
copper
or brass between the outer and inner pieces. But the most
remarkable
thing
is that I held the flame of the cutting torch on the core piece for
at
least
5 minutes without it getting hot enough to cut. Oh, color of the
grinding
sparks is almost the same as the sparks from the outer tube, IOW
low
carbon
steel sparks.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the material is, what
it is
used for, or how it was made. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks, James Johnson
Bewildered in Texas

JRJohnson wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

....

The casing for most reactor fuel is called zircaloy, don't know the
composition of that alloy. TRIGA's use some sort of stable hydride
(though maybe inside a thin layer of something else).

--

FF

Do fuel rods have an outer sheath of mild steel?

No, I think the outer case is zircaloy for power reactors. I don't
know what it is for TRIGAs but it will be a corrosion-resistant alloy
for any water moderated reactor.

Don't think so, but this
was obviously constructed to hold the 'swarf' (for lack of a better
term) in
the center hole. Still beats the hell out of me.

But there are other radiation sources besides fuel rods. For example
Polonium 210, an alpha emitter, is used to 'destatic' materials. But
the Po-210 has to be on the outside for the alphas to reach the
material.

There are medical sources using isotiopes like Cesium 137 (or 134) and
ssources used for food and seed irradiation. Those will rely on
Gammas or Betas, high energy betas can penetrate a thin layer
of steel and the cource might be designed to use the 'build-up',
secondary radiation scattered from the shielding when the radiation
from the primary source is stopped.


Research into zirconium was productive only in that I learned that
the
melting temp was around 3350 degrees F.

Still wondering, JRJ

It just _might_ be prudent to get that stuff checked out using a
proper survey meter. Hospitals and Universities are not as tightly
regulated as the nuclear industry.

--

FF

If you're concerned about whether or not it is radio-active, place a roll of
photographic film in its container near it for 24 hours, then develop it. If
its exposed, start organising a medical examination!

Tom
"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...

Tim Williams wrote:
"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
Nuclear power plant fuel rod?????
Ooops!!!!

Believe it or not, that thought (fuel rod) occurred to me, but
since I am
still here and not glowing, I presume that it wasn't radioactive.

It takes a hell of a dose of radiation to produce symptoms within
hours of exposure. Also the effects are cumulative. If the fuel
rod were used, lots of people including yourself would be in big
trouble. If it were unsused, you are probably OK but some other
people will still be in big trouble.


Well, I doubt the casing itself would have much residual
radioactivity,
despite the large neutron flux it handles in use.


Uh, 'much' is a relative term. As noted above, the effects of
exposure are cumulative.


Zr isn't magnetic though, and likely throws bright white sparks just
like
titanium. I'm not aware of any iron alloys, seems to me it'd be
brittle,
but it might exist. (Nothing with 10% of each comes up on Matweb.)


The casing for most reactor fuel is called zircaloy, don't know the
composition of that alloy. TRIGA's use some sort of stable hydride
(though maybe inside a thin layer of something else).

--

FF

Do fuel rods have an outer sheath of mild steel? Don't think so, but this
was obviously constructed to hold the 'swarf' (for lack of a better term)
in
the center hole. Still beats the hell out of me.

Research into zirconium was productive only in that I learned that the
melting temp was around 3350 degrees F.

Still wondering, JRJ

Tom Miller wrote:
If you're concerned about whether or not it is radio-active, place a
roll of
photographic film in its container near it for 24 hours, then develop
it. If
its exposed, start organising a medical examination!



That will not detect an alpha emitter as alphas will not penetrate
the metal casing of the film canister. Alphas and very low energy
Betas can be very difficult to detect. However, they will not
penetrate the dead skin cells on the surface of your skin, let
alone normal clothing so they are also a minimal hazard UNLESS
the material is heated, ground, cut, or otherwise handled in
some way as to send particles airborn where they may be inhaled.

Most survey meters will not detect alphas or low energy betas
as to do so requires a very low density, and therefor fragile
window. Historically, extremely thin slices of mica were used
for the windows on alpha detectors.

If you think or suspect that you are in posession of radioactive
material inappropriate for consumer use please call your state
EPA or even your local fire or police department. They may not
be equipped to test the material but they should know whom to
contact.

--

FF