One of the parts I like about my job is that I get to visit high school
shops, meet with shop teachers and help them spend their money. Here in
Ontario, the Provincial (State, Keef) government for the first time in five
years is actually spending money on tech ed programs. The shop teachers were
supposed to spend the money on safety devices and maintenance. Almost
without exception, these guys like their jobs and are dedicated, but some of
them are a little clueless when it comes to machinery. These guys were
contractors, electricians, etc, not machine guys. That's were I come in, I
am a machine guy, I can look at a machine, tell about how old it is, know
what is missing, what original or retrofit guarding is available for it etc.

To the case in point, one local high school has an old Rockwell 14-RAS, it
is in great shape except for the fact the blade guard is a cobbled together
homemade jobbie. That will not do. I am also there to look out for the
teacher and school boards liability, if a kid lops off a hand, someone will
fry for this, an OEM style guard has to go on this machine. Back at work I
call the nice lady at Delta and she sends me a parts breakdown. Turns out
you can buy an entire new guard assembly with one part number, only problem
is that it is megabucks. I do up the quote on 14-RAS guard, REI-TECH
switches, etc., for the high school and fax it in.

A week or so later a PO comes from the School for all the items I quoted
them on. I order up all the parts, they show up, I send the new stuff over
to the school with our driver.

On Saturday the shop teacher comes into the store and says he cannot get the
guard to go on. Hmmm, okay, I offer to stop by the HS and install it myself
on Tuesday.

Yesterday I go to the shop and try to fit the guard on. Nope, it does not
fit. The curved part of the guard does not slip down into the
groove/semi-circle flange around arbor on the motor. It looks like it wants
to go, but it will not. I look at the parts breakdown for the machine, no
help at all. There are two screws on the outside of the outer flange that
look like they may loosen to allow the guard to slip in, then I can
retighten the screws once the guard is in place. I remove the two screws and
try to tap the guard down into place, it is not going.

Now anyone who has ever worked on a 14, 16 or 18-RAS knows what I mess I
just got into.

Okay, tail between my legs, I call the nice Delta service people in Guelph.
I explain who I am (they do know me) and what I am trying to do. I tell them
the parts breakdown sucks and what I did to try and fit the guard on. I hear
on the phone, "You didn't just remove the bearing end cap screws did you?".
"I don't know, did I?", "I have never worked on a 14-RAS before". "Crap, get
those screws back in there *right away*, if that cap falls off into the
armature/motor windings, you will be in big trouble". I get off the phone
and try to get the screws back in place. Nope, they will not go. I head to
the auto shop for a trouble light so I can try to peer down the holes. No
holes, just a metal plate, the bearing retainer plate has fallen off the
back of the bearing and dropped down onto the motor armature. Crap. I have
no idea what I am doing. I have great mechanical aptitude, and I know I can
figure this out, but this was supposed to be a 15 minute courtesy visit that
I know I just turned into a multi-hour ordeal.

Okay, how does this freakin motor come apart? Look at the parts breakdown,
oh ya, it sucks, no breakdown for the motor itself.

Start taking off nuts, and backing out screws. I remove the bell housing
from arbour shaft end of the motor and I can clearly see what has happened.
The bearing presses onto the armature and is held in place with two screws
that pass through from the outside of the motor, behind where the arbor
flange would be, around the main bearing and into the bearing retainer
plate.

Hmmm, how the hell do you bearing retainer plate in place so when you put
the motor end back on the two sets of holes line up and the plate does not
fall back into the windings? Several trial attempts prove this to be a
fruitless waste of time. I try a small amount of grease on the plate hoping
it would "tack" the plate in place while I replace the bell housing. Nope,
that isn't agonna work either.

Plan B, (or is that C?). I call Delta back and the only who can help me has
left for the day. The next senior guy has only worked on a couple of these
large RAS's and cannot help me other than to say that he did that once (had
the bearing retainer plate fall into the motor windings) and remembers that
it took him all day to fix it. Great.

I think I might try taking the bearing off, seat it into the bell housing,
attach the bearing retainer plate and press it back onto the arbor. Wait,
there is a large snap ring holding the bearing in place on the outside. Off
to the automotive shop again to find a pair of external snap ring pliers.
Turns out some kid broke the tips off the only pair left this morning. There
is a small internal set (with bent tips) and I try to get those to work. A
half hour of frustration later, I get the snap ring out. I then realize
without a bearing puller, I am not getting the bearing off, and even if I
could this idea would not work. There would be no way to get the snap ring
back in place and ensure it was seated on the outside of the bearing if I
put the bearing into the bell housing and attached the bearing retainer
plate first. Put the snap ring back in place and scratch my head.

Who the hell designed this RAS?

Time for yet another plan of attack.

This saw is only used as a rough cut off saw and none of the levers that
allow the motor to articulate work with any ease have been moved in years (I
mean *years*). I finally get the motor to a vertical position where the
arbor faces strait down. This time I am going to try to use gravity to hold
the bearing retainer plate in place. I align the plate to where I think it
will line up with the external screw holes and slip the bell housing back in
place. I gingerly thread up the screws and hope they are aligned and catch
the threads. First time nope, second time nope, I am beginning to sweat at
this point. I figure I will have to remove the entire motor, take it back to
the shop and wait until someone at Delta can walk me through the procedure.
I decide to try one last time. I align the plate as best I can and slip on
the bell housing again. I with great care try to see if I can get a screw to
catch without moving the plate, I feel threads! I try the second screw, it
catches too! I do a little dance around the shop! 45 minutes later I have
the entire motor back together and three hours after I showed up at the shop
for a 15 minute visit, I am back to where I started. I turn the breaker back
on, and, the saw works. Whew!

I now do what I should have done in the first place, file off the thick
paint on the guard flange and once the paint is removed, it slips down into
the groove it is supposed to seat into.

Since I didn't have a decent drawing to refer to, I thought those two screws
were part of a clamping system to hold the guard in place. All I needed to
do was file off the paint. I think the medical profession has a saying for
this, "Don't go looking for Zebra's". When something does not fit, don't go
looking for difficult reasons as to why it does not fit, sometimes they are
quite simple like too much overspray.

I got the guard on, the saw runs fine, and Little Jane and Johnny will be
safe using this RAS. I learned a lot, like I never want this to *ever*
happen again.

Aside from Robert V. I doubt anyone else here can really appreciate how
tedious this task can be, and I bet he laughed when I removed those two
screws (grin) knowing just what I world of trouble I had created for myself.

Live and learn,

David.

Great story David, I bet you were sweating! LOL

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In article
e.rogers.com, David
F. Eisan wrote:

Aside from Robert V. I doubt anyone else here can really appreciate how
tedious this task can be, and I bet he laughed when I removed those two
screws (grin) knowing just what I world of trouble I had created for myself.

Payback for the major suckitude you've been showing around here lately,
methinks...

;-)

--
It's probably time to change my sig line, eh?

Proves the saying, "No good deed goes unpunished."

Glen

"David F. Eisan" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
One of the parts I like about my job is that I get to visit high school
shops, meet with shop teachers and help them spend their money. Here in
Ontario, the Provincial (State, Keef) government for the first time in
five
years is actually spending money on tech ed programs. The shop teachers
were
supposed to spend the money on safety devices and maintenance. Almost
without exception, these guys like their jobs and are dedicated, but some
of
them are a little clueless when it comes to machinery. These guys were
contractors, electricians, etc, not machine guys. That's were I come in, I
am a machine guy, I can look at a machine, tell about how old it is, know
what is missing, what original or retrofit guarding is available for it
etc.

To the case in point, one local high school has an old Rockwell 14-RAS, it
is in great shape except for the fact the blade guard is a cobbled
together
homemade jobbie. That will not do. I am also there to look out for the
teacher and school boards liability, if a kid lops off a hand, someone
will
fry for this, an OEM style guard has to go on this machine. Back at work I
call the nice lady at Delta and she sends me a parts breakdown. Turns out
you can buy an entire new guard assembly with one part number, only
problem
is that it is megabucks. I do up the quote on 14-RAS guard, REI-TECH
switches, etc., for the high school and fax it in.

A week or so later a PO comes from the School for all the items I quoted
them on. I order up all the parts, they show up, I send the new stuff over
to the school with our driver.

On Saturday the shop teacher comes into the store and says he cannot get
the
guard to go on. Hmmm, okay, I offer to stop by the HS and install it
myself
on Tuesday.

Yesterday I go to the shop and try to fit the guard on. Nope, it does not
fit. The curved part of the guard does not slip down into the
groove/semi-circle flange around arbor on the motor. It looks like it
wants
to go, but it will not. I look at the parts breakdown for the machine, no
help at all. There are two screws on the outside of the outer flange that
look like they may loosen to allow the guard to slip in, then I can
retighten the screws once the guard is in place. I remove the two screws
and
try to tap the guard down into place, it is not going.

Now anyone who has ever worked on a 14, 16 or 18-RAS knows what I mess I
just got into.

Okay, tail between my legs, I call the nice Delta service people in
Guelph.
I explain who I am (they do know me) and what I am trying to do. I tell
them
the parts breakdown sucks and what I did to try and fit the guard on. I
hear
on the phone, "You didn't just remove the bearing end cap screws did
you?".
"I don't know, did I?", "I have never worked on a 14-RAS before". "Crap,
get
those screws back in there *right away*, if that cap falls off into the
armature/motor windings, you will be in big trouble". I get off the phone
and try to get the screws back in place. Nope, they will not go. I head to
the auto shop for a trouble light so I can try to peer down the holes. No
holes, just a metal plate, the bearing retainer plate has fallen off the
back of the bearing and dropped down onto the motor armature. Crap. I have
no idea what I am doing. I have great mechanical aptitude, and I know I
can
figure this out, but this was supposed to be a 15 minute courtesy visit
that
I know I just turned into a multi-hour ordeal.

Okay, how does this freakin motor come apart? Look at the parts breakdown,
oh ya, it sucks, no breakdown for the motor itself.

Start taking off nuts, and backing out screws. I remove the bell housing
from arbour shaft end of the motor and I can clearly see what has
happened.
The bearing presses onto the armature and is held in place with two screws
that pass through from the outside of the motor, behind where the arbor
flange would be, around the main bearing and into the bearing retainer
plate.

Hmmm, how the hell do you bearing retainer plate in place so when you put
the motor end back on the two sets of holes line up and the plate does not
fall back into the windings? Several trial attempts prove this to be a
fruitless waste of time. I try a small amount of grease on the plate
hoping
it would "tack" the plate in place while I replace the bell housing. Nope,
that isn't agonna work either.

Plan B, (or is that C?). I call Delta back and the only who can help me
has
left for the day. The next senior guy has only worked on a couple of these
large RAS's and cannot help me other than to say that he did that once
(had
the bearing retainer plate fall into the motor windings) and remembers
that
it took him all day to fix it. Great.

I think I might try taking the bearing off, seat it into the bell housing,
attach the bearing retainer plate and press it back onto the arbor. Wait,
there is a large snap ring holding the bearing in place on the outside.
Off
to the automotive shop again to find a pair of external snap ring pliers.
Turns out some kid broke the tips off the only pair left this morning.
There
is a small internal set (with bent tips) and I try to get those to work. A
half hour of frustration later, I get the snap ring out. I then realize
without a bearing puller, I am not getting the bearing off, and even if I
could this idea would not work. There would be no way to get the snap ring
back in place and ensure it was seated on the outside of the bearing if I
put the bearing into the bell housing and attached the bearing retainer
plate first. Put the snap ring back in place and scratch my head.

Who the hell designed this RAS?

Time for yet another plan of attack.

This saw is only used as a rough cut off saw and none of the levers that
allow the motor to articulate work with any ease have been moved in years
(I
mean *years*). I finally get the motor to a vertical position where the
arbor faces strait down. This time I am going to try to use gravity to
hold
the bearing retainer plate in place. I align the plate to where I think it
will line up with the external screw holes and slip the bell housing back
in
place. I gingerly thread up the screws and hope they are aligned and catch
the threads. First time nope, second time nope, I am beginning to sweat at
this point. I figure I will have to remove the entire motor, take it back
to
the shop and wait until someone at Delta can walk me through the
procedure.
I decide to try one last time. I align the plate as best I can and slip on
the bell housing again. I with great care try to see if I can get a screw
to
catch without moving the plate, I feel threads! I try the second screw, it
catches too! I do a little dance around the shop! 45 minutes later I have
the entire motor back together and three hours after I showed up at the
shop
for a 15 minute visit, I am back to where I started. I turn the breaker
back
on, and, the saw works. Whew!

I now do what I should have done in the first place, file off the thick
paint on the guard flange and once the paint is removed, it slips down
into
the groove it is supposed to seat into.

Since I didn't have a decent drawing to refer to, I thought those two
screws
were part of a clamping system to hold the guard in place. All I needed to
do was file off the paint. I think the medical profession has a saying for
this, "Don't go looking for Zebra's". When something does not fit, don't
go
looking for difficult reasons as to why it does not fit, sometimes they
are
quite simple like too much overspray.

I got the guard on, the saw runs fine, and Little Jane and Johnny will be
safe using this RAS. I learned a lot, like I never want this to *ever*
happen again.

Aside from Robert V. I doubt anyone else here can really appreciate how
tedious this task can be, and I bet he laughed when I removed those two
screws (grin) knowing just what I world of trouble I had created for
myself.

Live and learn,

David.

David F. Eisan wrote:
One of the parts I like about my job is that I get to visit high school
[snip of woe]

When your contraption ceases to operate and you decide to operate and
you remove a few screws and you hear one of the most dreaded sounds in
the universe (clink, sprong, rattle, etc.), your sphincter clenches and
will not be assuaged by any number of bad words. Beer. Back to the
fray. Finish removing the cover and catch all of one of the now loose
parts in your hand. As you say, there is no readable parts diagram for
this piece. Beer. Make first attempt at reassembly. Beer. Second
attempt. Bad words. Beer. Call manufacturer. "If you read the
instructions, you wouldn't have ****ed with it. We're not responsible."

"No ****. You're not responsible." Third attempt. Beer. Supper. TV.
Bed. Darkness and dawning, the second day. Fourth attempt. Getting
better at this. Allllllmmmooost there. Clink. Damn. Kick. Another
bit falls to the floor. Sweep, find the piece, AND, hallelujah, the
first piece that fell. Good omen. Stand, hit head, curse, beer.

Lunch. Fifth time is a charm. Button it all up, plug it in, and turn
it on. Yeesssssssssss. Nothing. Sigh. Oh well at least now I can
take it in without too much embarrassment. Celebratory beer.

mahalo,
jo4hn

David F. Eisan wrote:
Since I didn't have a decent drawing to refer to, I thought those two screws
were part of a clamping system to hold the guard in place. All I needed to
do was file off the paint. I think the medical profession has a saying for
this, "Don't go looking for Zebra's".


The more complete saying goes something like: "When you hear the sound of
hooves outside, think horses; not zebras. You're much more apt to be correct."

Been there, done that. I have more talent than most at turning 20 minute jobs
into all day ordeals.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

Around here, no good deed goes unpublished.

Not that I'm complaining. But I am a little envious of David for having
these problems with cool old tools instead of the way I experience them -
with crummy new tools. Even his lamentations are neeners of a sort.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:30:02 +0000, Glen wrote:

Proves the saying, "No good deed goes unpunished."

Glen

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
...



The more complete saying goes something like: "When you hear the sound of
hooves outside, think horses; not zebras. You're much more apt to be
correct."


yeabut - every know and then a patient shows up with the very rare
Zebraitis. Damned doctors still insist is Horsopthoy, and don't relent until
the patient is dead...

When I can't seem to get the right diagnoses from the specialists, I often
turn to recent graduates. Their minds have much fewer constraints.

And I thought those things only happened to me. Glad it worked out for you.