I'm working with 2" angle iron from home depot making a frame that will
support a dc winch motor for rolling a pool cover onto a spool. I'm having a
hard time with drilling and cutting slots.

I'm trying to drill several 1/2" holes using a bench drill press. Using
pilot holes I'm able to work my way up to 3/8" holes with no problem but as
soon as I go for the 1/2" bit it just spins and spins and doesn't want to
cut anymore. I end up forcing it down pretty hard to get through and it
takes for ever, what's the trick?


The next question that I had was, I need to cut some slots into the angle
also, so that the dc motor that I'm mounting can be adjusted a little, I've
been using a cutting torch to cut some slots but with my skills they come
out extremely messy, any good advice or ways to cut these with standard
tools? (drill, jig saw, sawzall)?

Thanks for any help.


Mark

who fast are you turning your drill bits? The 1/2 inch bit should be
at several hundred RPM. Are you turning it faster? Are they good quality
drill bits? Are you using cutting oil while drilling?

chuck


I'm working with 2" angle iron from home depot making a frame that will
support a dc winch motor for rolling a pool cover onto a spool. I'm having a
hard time with drilling and cutting slots.

I'm trying to drill several 1/2" holes using a bench drill press. Using
pilot holes I'm able to work my way up to 3/8" holes with no problem but as
soon as I go for the 1/2" bit it just spins and spins and doesn't want to
cut anymore. I end up forcing it down pretty hard to get through and it
takes for ever, what's the trick?


The next question that I had was, I need to cut some slots into the angle
also, so that the dc motor that I'm mounting can be adjusted a little, I've
been using a cutting torch to cut some slots but with my skills they come
out extremely messy, any good advice or ways to cut these with standard
tools? (drill, jig saw, sawzall)?

Thanks for any help.


Mark

One way to cut slots is to drill a series of overlapping holes, and file
the scalloped edge straight. You may need to experiment to find the
amount of overlap that is best, too much and the drill will tend to veer
off to the adjacent hole. (If you are making a longer slot consider
drilling holes 1, 3, 5, etc., and then go back to drill holes 2 and 4,
so that holes 2 and 4 have a hole on both sides, a more balanced
arrangement.) If you have too little overlap, it will be hard to remove
the excess metal.

For a 1/2 inch hole in steel, the maximum RPM should be around 400 RPM.
If you use faster RPM, it will tend to burn up the bit. If you burned
up the bit, it needs to be replaced or perhaps resharpened.

Richard


Rod wrote:
I'm working with 2" angle iron from home depot making a frame that will
support a dc winch motor for rolling a pool cover onto a spool. I'm having a
hard time with drilling and cutting slots.

I'm trying to drill several 1/2" holes using a bench drill press. Using
pilot holes I'm able to work my way up to 3/8" holes with no problem but as
soon as I go for the 1/2" bit it just spins and spins and doesn't want to
cut anymore. I end up forcing it down pretty hard to get through and it
takes for ever, what's the trick?


The next question that I had was, I need to cut some slots into the angle
also, so that the dc motor that I'm mounting can be adjusted a little, I've
been using a cutting torch to cut some slots but with my skills they come
out extremely messy, any good advice or ways to cut these with standard
tools? (drill, jig saw, sawzall)?

Thanks for any help.


Mark

"Rod" wrote in message
...

I'm trying to drill several 1/2" holes using a bench drill press.
Using pilot holes I'm able to work my way up to 3/8" holes with no
problem but as soon as I go for the 1/2" bit it just spins and spins
and doesn't want to cut anymore. I end up forcing it down pretty hard
to get through and it takes for ever, what's the trick?

Wht speed are you spinning that bit and what is your feed rate? Also, what
type of bit are you using: quality, material, sharpness, point angle?

For mild steel, you should be using a point angle of 118 deg, and a cutting
speed of 60 to 80 surface feet per minute (~ 450 to 600 rpm). Your feed rate
(downward pressure on the quill) will be higher than with smaller drills.
Make sure you are using a good quality bit, either new or professionally
re-sharpened, and proper cutting fluid.


The next question that I had was, I need to cut some slots into the
angle

The easiest way to do this is with a die grinder or a Dremel-type tool.
Either use a carbide burr or abrasive point to grind out and elongate your
holes, or use a small cut-off wheel to make connecting cuts between two or
more holes.

Regards,
Michael

It sounds as if your 1/2 inch drill needs to be sharpened. You can
sharpen a 1/2 inch drill yourself on a bench grinder. Google on this
use group to find lots of discussion on sharpening drills.

If I were making slots by hand, I would drill a hole at each end and
another hole that slightly overlaps one of the end holes. Then I would
use a hack saw to saw the slots. and a file to get the sides straight.
A sawzall and a jig saw tend to bind and shake. At least when I try
using them.

Dan

wrote: (clip) A sawzall and a jig saw tend to bind and
shake. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
A good saber saw works fine for me. It's important to have the metal held
firmly in a vise, and to keep good pressure between the sole plate of the
saw and the angle iron, The better saws have a rotating balancing weight to
eliminate vibration, and that is a HUGE help.

Check your drill bit. I recently had a 5/16 drill that I for the life
of me could not drill a hole. I kept running it slower and slower.
Finally pulled it out of the chuck and looked at it figuring it most be
duller than a spoon(even though it was brand new).

Looking at it, when it was ground it must have slipped as one flute was
all botched up. The relief had wiped out one cutting edge.

Maybe it got munged up when it was ground, or it's dull, or you running
it too fast. Or a combination.

JW

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I have two 1/2" bits that I was
alternating between and both seem to be fairly sharp. The newest bit I've
tried is from an assortment type kit from Home Depot, Blue M-something. I
do think the rpm's are definitely to high on my drill press. I even had a
tough time drilling a 1/2" hole through 1/2" aluminum. I'll give it a shot
at the lowest speed and see what happens. I think if I can get some 1/2"
holes drilled then I should be good with making some slots with the jig saw
or dremel even though the cutting torch is much more fun.

Now if I can just get my concept to work, this will be prototype #2 as
prototype #1 was chain drive and the torque is too high for the roller
clutches I was using and keeps ripping the insides out of em. Gonna possibly
try direct drive on the new one. I can go into more detail on my project if
anyone is interested in providing opinions.

Thanks,

Mark



"Rod" wrote in message
...

I'm working with 2" angle iron from home depot making a frame that will
support a dc winch motor for rolling a pool cover onto a spool. I'm having
a hard time with drilling and cutting slots.

I'm trying to drill several 1/2" holes using a bench drill press. Using
pilot holes I'm able to work my way up to 3/8" holes with no problem but
as soon as I go for the 1/2" bit it just spins and spins and doesn't want
to cut anymore. I end up forcing it down pretty hard to get through and it
takes for ever, what's the trick?


The next question that I had was, I need to cut some slots into the angle
also, so that the dc motor that I'm mounting can be adjusted a little,
I've been using a cutting torch to cut some slots but with my skills they
come out extremely messy, any good advice or ways to cut these with
standard tools? (drill, jig saw, sawzall)?

Thanks for any help.


Mark

I'll note along with the others that a 1/2" bit needs to have 4x the
pressure as well as 1/4th the speed of a 1/4" bit. The little 1/4" bit will
dig in very nicely with the pressure but the 1/2" bit will really need to
have a lot more pressure in order to dig in properly.
Also going too small in the steps of hole sizes does tend to dull the outer
part of the cutting edges relative to the center. Drill a hole that is a
little bit larger than the center part of the bit and then use the larger
bit to do the hole.
Finally, I'll note that with a 1/2" bit, the angle iron gets to be a bit
thin so you have to start using thin metal techniques to drill such a hole
otherwise the bit will grab the angle iron and spin it.
A half inch unibit is probably going to work best in this application.
--
Why isn't there an Ozone Hole at the NORTH Pole?

Just a couple of quick comments:

Go to an actual hardware store and request "High speed steel" drill bits.
I have an Ace hardware close by which carries them.

If you must pilot drill, do it only once! Measure the web thickness of your
1/2
drill and pilot drill same size or slightly larger. It doesn't take much of
a drill
press to drill 1/2 dia. in mild steel.

Calculate RPM at which to run your tools. RPM=(cutting speed * 4) / dia.
Cutting speed for mild steel using High speed steel is approximately 80
sfpm.

So 80*4/0.5 = 640 RPM for the 1/2 drill.

It's unlikely your drill press will match exactly, so select speed closest
to
what you have calculated. Better to start slightly slower if possible.

If a true do-it-yourselfer, you probably don't have any cutting oil. I have
found WD-40 is a pretty good substitute and is readily available.

Good luck!

"Rod" wrote in message
...

I'm working with 2" angle iron from home depot making a frame that will
support a dc winch motor for rolling a pool cover onto a spool. I'm having
a hard time with drilling and cutting slots.

I'm trying to drill several 1/2" holes using a bench drill press. Using
pilot holes I'm able to work my way up to 3/8" holes with no problem but
as soon as I go for the 1/2" bit it just spins and spins and doesn't want
to cut anymore. I end up forcing it down pretty hard to get through and it
takes for ever, what's the trick?


The next question that I had was, I need to cut some slots into the angle
also, so that the dc motor that I'm mounting can be adjusted a little,
I've been using a cutting torch to cut some slots but with my skills they
come out extremely messy, any good advice or ways to cut these with
standard tools? (drill, jig saw, sawzall)?

Thanks for any help.


Mark

If a true do-it-yourselfer, you probably don't have any cutting oil. I have
found WD-40 is a pretty good substitute and is readily available.

He would be better of buying some cutting oil at the hardware store too.

I'll give it a shot at the lowest speed and see what happens.

Or slower! See

http://www.frugalmachinist.com/jackshaft.html
http://home.comcast.net/~glyford/js/js.htm
http://www.gizmology.net/pulleysbelts.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Acco...rillPress.html
http://www.green-trust.org/junkyardp...cerSMHWH61.pdf
(the last two may need to be pasted onto one line)

If you're going to be drilling this size hole a lot, it'll be a big
help.

I need to cut some slots into the angle also

Depending on how long you need, you can get half decent slots using
a 4-1/2" grinder, again drilling holes at each end and cleaning
up with a file. HF has these grinders cheap, google on this
group to get the model number of the "good" one.

--Glenn Lyford

This will teach him not to own a milling machine.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Chuck Sherwood" wrote in message
...

If a true do-it-yourselfer, you probably don't have any cutting oil. I
have
found WD-40 is a pretty good substitute and is readily available.

He would be better of buying some cutting oil at the hardware store too.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:39:14 -0400, "Rod" wrote:


I'm working with 2" angle iron from home depot making a frame that will
support a dc winch motor for rolling a pool cover onto a spool. I'm having a
hard time with drilling and cutting slots.

I'm trying to drill several 1/2" holes using a bench drill press. Using
pilot holes I'm able to work my way up to 3/8" holes with no problem but as
soon as I go for the 1/2" bit it just spins and spins and doesn't want to
cut anymore. I end up forcing it down pretty hard to get through and it
takes for ever, what's the trick?

Measure the web of your half inch drill bit, and use a pilot drill no
bigger than that web thickness, then drill the pilot, followed by the
1/2" drill. Or simply center punch and drill with the 1/2" using no
pilots. Which is the preferred method.


The next question that I had was, I need to cut some slots into the angle
also, so that the dc motor that I'm mounting can be adjusted a little, I've
been using a cutting torch to cut some slots but with my skills they come
out extremely messy, any good advice or ways to cut these with standard
tools? (drill, jig saw, sawzall)?

Drill a series of holes, and clean up between them with a file, jigsaw
etc.

Or buy a milling machine.

Thanks for any help.


Gunner

Mark



"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

Greetings and salutations...

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:12:08 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:39:14 -0400, "Rod" wrote:


I'm working with 2" angle iron from home depot making a frame that will
support a dc winch motor for rolling a pool cover onto a spool. I'm having a
hard time with drilling and cutting slots.

I'm trying to drill several 1/2" holes using a bench drill press. Using
pilot holes I'm able to work my way up to 3/8" holes with no problem but as
soon as I go for the 1/2" bit it just spins and spins and doesn't want to
cut anymore. I end up forcing it down pretty hard to get through and it
takes for ever, what's the trick?

Measure the web of your half inch drill bit, and use a pilot drill no
bigger than that web thickness, then drill the pilot, followed by the
1/2" drill. Or simply center punch and drill with the 1/2" using no
pilots. Which is the preferred method.

Or...spring for one of the Irwin Step Bits. It is a TAD
pricy, but, is a great way to drill larger holes in metal. Get a real
one, though...as I am not sure how good a metal the clones use.


The next question that I had was, I need to cut some slots into the angle
also, so that the dc motor that I'm mounting can be adjusted a little, I've
been using a cutting torch to cut some slots but with my skills they come
out extremely messy, any good advice or ways to cut these with standard
tools? (drill, jig saw, sawzall)?

Drill a series of holes, and clean up between them with a file, jigsaw
etc.

Or buy a milling machine.

I would put a big thumbs up for the milling machine
suggestion! After all, one of the "project rules" is that it should
require a machine we don't have yet. That is why I am building
a drum sander, after all...(*smile*).

However, I have had good luck with drilling a hole at
each end of the slot, and cutting walls with a sabre saw. Of
course, the length of the slots make a diffence too. For slots
of an inch or so, I probably WOULD drill a series of holes
and use a file/grinder to flatten the cusps down.

*snip*

regards
Dave Mundt

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:12:08 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :

The next question that I had was, I need to cut some slots into the angle
also, so that the dc motor that I'm mounting can be adjusted a little, I've
been using a cutting torch to cut some slots but with my skills they come
out extremely messy, any good advice or ways to cut these with standard
tools? (drill, jig saw, sawzall)?

Drill a series of holes, and clean up between them with a file, jigsaw
etc.

Or buy a milling machine.

No doubt you have some suggestions as to where he could get a good
deal, eh? :-)

I win the lottery tomorrow, I'll be in touch.


tschus
pyotr

"I get up in the morning, and check to see if anyone won the lottery. If
nobody has, then I open the want ads."

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

Absent a milling machine for the slots, drilling a series of holes(which is
called chain drilling) and clearing them out would work, but is time
consuming. However, I have done it fairly quickly without a file by using a
so called " side cutting " drill. I know HF has a set of 3 for sale,
however the largest size drill in the set is 3/8 inch which is smaller than
the 1/2 inch you need. Nevertheless, you could try that, and clean up the
resulting slot with a small die grinder or similar tool.

--
don paolino
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:39:14 -0400, "Rod" wrote:


I'm working with 2" angle iron from home depot making a frame that will
support a dc winch motor for rolling a pool cover onto a spool. I'm
having a
hard time with drilling and cutting slots.

I'm trying to drill several 1/2" holes using a bench drill press. Using
pilot holes I'm able to work my way up to 3/8" holes with no problem but
as
soon as I go for the 1/2" bit it just spins and spins and doesn't want to
cut anymore. I end up forcing it down pretty hard to get through and it
takes for ever, what's the trick?

Measure the web of your half inch drill bit, and use a pilot drill no
bigger than that web thickness, then drill the pilot, followed by the
1/2" drill. Or simply center punch and drill with the 1/2" using no
pilots. Which is the preferred method.


The next question that I had was, I need to cut some slots into the angle
also, so that the dc motor that I'm mounting can be adjusted a little,
I've
been using a cutting torch to cut some slots but with my skills they come
out extremely messy, any good advice or ways to cut these with standard
tools? (drill, jig saw, sawzall)?

Drill a series of holes, and clean up between them with a file, jigsaw
etc.

Or buy a milling machine.

Thanks for any help.


Gunner

Mark



"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke