I temporarily set up some 4 foot 2 lamp flourescent lights in a workshop
that I'm building in my backyard. This evening temp was about 60 and one
light did not want to come one. Yesterday the temp was a bit warmer and I
did not have any trouble. I've heard that these lights do not work very
well when the temperature drops below 50 degress F.

I live in South Louisiana and the temps in the winter are known to get in
the 20's and 30's on occasion. I don't want to worry about lights not coming
on when I would like to be in the shop tinkering during the slow winter
months.

What other type lights besides incandescent is recommended. I do not want
to pay an arm and a let either.

Please advise...
Thanks,

You just need ballasts for lower temps

m Ransley wrote:
You just need ballasts for lower temps

Also, check out the fixtures and lamps intended for use in cold storage
food areas.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

"Ray" wrote in message
news:CaNZd.11559$ju.2895@okepread07...
I temporarily set up some 4 foot 2 lamp flourescent lights in a workshop
that I'm building in my backyard. This evening temp was about 60 and one
light did not want to come one. Yesterday the temp was a bit warmer and I
did not have any trouble. I've heard that these lights do not work very
well when the temperature drops below 50 degress F.

I live in South Louisiana and the temps in the winter are known to get in
the 20's and 30's on occasion. I don't want to worry about lights not
coming
on when I would like to be in the shop tinkering during the slow winter
months.

What other type lights besides incandescent is recommended. I do not want
to pay an arm and a let either.

Please advise...
Thanks,




Cha, what you need do is rub somm graton grease on dem contax. Light dem up
evree time.

Where you at in Southern Louisiana? I lived in Lafayette for seven years,
and thoroughly enjoyed it. Been at every boat landing and heliport from
Venice, Louisiana to Freeport, Texas.

Miss dat food!

Steve

I live in Patterson but work out of Morgan City.

Now what's that about that grease again ???


"SteveB" wrote in message
news:4ROZd.4439$ZE5.927@fed1read03...

"Ray" wrote in message
news:CaNZd.11559$ju.2895@okepread07...
I temporarily set up some 4 foot 2 lamp flourescent lights in a workshop
that I'm building in my backyard. This evening temp was about 60 and one
light did not want to come one. Yesterday the temp was a bit warmer and
I
did not have any trouble. I've heard that these lights do not work very
well when the temperature drops below 50 degress F.

I live in South Louisiana and the temps in the winter are known to get
in
the 20's and 30's on occasion. I don't want to worry about lights not
coming
on when I would like to be in the shop tinkering during the slow winter
months.

What other type lights besides incandescent is recommended. I do not
want
to pay an arm and a let either.

Please advise...
Thanks,




Cha, what you need do is rub somm graton grease on dem contax. Light dem
up
evree time.

Where you at in Southern Louisiana? I lived in Lafayette for seven years,
and thoroughly enjoyed it. Been at every boat landing and heliport from
Venice, Louisiana to Freeport, Texas.

Miss dat food!

Steve

Ray wrote:
I temporarily set up some 4 foot 2 lamp flourescent lights in a
workshop that I'm building in my backyard. This evening temp was
about 60 and one light did not want to come one. Yesterday the temp
was a bit warmer and I did not have any trouble. I've heard that
these lights do not work very well when the temperature drops below
50 degress F.

I live in South Louisiana and the temps in the winter are known to
get in the 20's and 30's on occasion. I don't want to worry about
lights not coming on when I would like to be in the shop tinkering
during the slow winter months.

What other type lights besides incandescent is recommended. I do not
want to pay an arm and a let either.

Please advise...
Thanks,

Most such lamps need a good ground, with out that starting is
questionable.

The cheap ones are not designed for cold weather and will not last long,
be less efficient and will likely hum and or flicker.

Get lights rated for cold weather. They will generally have electronic
rather than magnetic ballast. The most efficient ones are usually T-8
lamps.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Ray wrote:
I temporarily set up some 4 foot 2 lamp flourescent lights in a workshop
that I'm building in my backyard. This evening temp was about 60 and one
light did not want to come one. Yesterday the temp was a bit warmer and I
did not have any trouble. I've heard that these lights do not work very
well when the temperature drops below 50 degress F.

I live in South Louisiana and the temps in the winter are known to get in
the 20's and 30's on occasion. I don't want to worry about lights not coming
on when I would like to be in the shop tinkering during the slow winter
months.

What other type lights besides incandescent is recommended. I do not want
to pay an arm and a let either.

Please advise...
Thanks,



I have VHO's in my garage and they work fine when its cold.
They cost more, but they work.

Bob

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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Ray" wrote in message
news:CaNZd.11559$ju.2895@okepread07...
I temporarily set up some 4 foot 2 lamp flourescent lights in a workshop
that I'm building in my backyard. This evening temp was about 60 and one
light did not want to come one. Yesterday the temp was a bit warmer and I
did not have any trouble. I've heard that these lights do not work very
well when the temperature drops below 50 degress F.

I live in South Louisiana and the temps in the winter are known to get in
the 20's and 30's on occasion. I don't want to worry about lights not
coming
on when I would like to be in the shop tinkering during the slow winter
months.

What other type lights besides incandescent is recommended. I do not want
to pay an arm and a let either.

Please advise...
Thanks,

You will probably need to go to a real electric supply for a zero degree
ballast of any manufacture. A long time ago Magnetic made 40 degree
ballasts but I have not had the need for them for a long time.

All low temp ballasts have a little heater in them to keep them warm. This
heater will in time cost some money.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/pro...711190&ccitem=

something similar to what you may have

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/pro...593177&ccitem=
what you can consider

"Ray" wrote in message
news:CaNZd.11559$ju.2895@okepread07...
I temporarily set up some 4 foot 2 lamp flourescent lights in a workshop
that I'm building in my backyard. This evening temp was about 60 and one
light did not want to come one. Yesterday the temp was a bit warmer and I
did not have any trouble. I've heard that these lights do not work very
well when the temperature drops below 50 degress F.

Newer lights are good down to about 0 degrees. I bought a couple of cheap
ones and they work fine in my unheated garage. As the temperature comes up,
they do get a little brighter. You can get them as cheap at $15 a fixture.

Ray wrote:
I temporarily set up some 4 foot 2 lamp flourescent lights in a
workshop
that I'm building in my backyard. This evening temp was about 60 and
one
light did not want to come one. Yesterday the temp was a bit warmer
and I
did not have any trouble. I've heard that these lights do not work
very
well when the temperature drops below 50 degress F.

I routinely use the cheapo ballasts from Home Depot without any problem
here in Michigan. They do start out a bit dim, and flicker a bunch,
but after 5 or 10 minutes they warm up to full brightness. This is in
an unheated garage where it might be 10 or 20 degrees (F).

"SQLit" wrote in message

You will probably need to go to a real electric supply for a zero degree
ballast of any manufacture. A long time ago Magnetic made 40 degree
ballasts but I have not had the need for them for a long time.

Not any more. You can get them at HD or Lowes and very cheap. Of course
they are not commercial rated, but for most garages, perfectly adequate.

"Ray" wrote in message
news:L6PZd.11572$ju.3917@okepread07...
I live in Patterson but work out of Morgan City.

Now what's that about that grease again ???



Been through Patterson many times on the way south to Morgan City, Houma,
Grand Isle, etc.

I was telling you to use some grease from those delicious "craklins" that
are made in So. Louisiana. Don't know if it will work or not, but it gives
you an excuse to go get two pounds of craklins to eat in the shop. Don't
forget the Miller ponies either.

Steve

Thanks to all for your replies.
Ray

wrote in message
ps.com...

Ray wrote:
I temporarily set up some 4 foot 2 lamp flourescent lights in a
workshop
that I'm building in my backyard. This evening temp was about 60 and
one
light did not want to come one. Yesterday the temp was a bit warmer
and I
did not have any trouble. I've heard that these lights do not work
very
well when the temperature drops below 50 degress F.

I routinely use the cheapo ballasts from Home Depot without any problem
here in Michigan. They do start out a bit dim, and flicker a bunch,
but after 5 or 10 minutes they warm up to full brightness. This is in
an unheated garage where it might be 10 or 20 degrees (F).

In article xPXZd.249512$0u.83222@fed1read04, SQLit wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
news:CaNZd.11559$ju.2895@okepread07...
I temporarily set up some 4 foot 2 lamp flourescent lights in a workshop
that I'm building in my backyard. This evening temp was about 60 and one
light did not want to come one. Yesterday the temp was a bit warmer and I
did not have any trouble. I've heard that these lights do not work very
well when the temperature drops below 50 degress F.

I live in South Louisiana and the temps in the winter are known to get in
the 20's and 30's on occasion. I don't want to worry about lights not
coming
on when I would like to be in the shop tinkering during the slow winter
months.

What other type lights besides incandescent is recommended. I do not want
to pay an arm and a let either.

Please advise...
Thanks,

You will probably need to go to a real electric supply for a zero degree
ballast of any manufacture. A long time ago Magnetic made 40 degree
ballasts but I have not had the need for them for a long time.

All low temp ballasts have a little heater in them to keep them warm. This
heater will in time cost some money.

I never heard before that the ballasts have a heater for ability to use
in lower temperatures. Normally, in ballasts heat is "The Enemy".

It surely appeared to me that ballasts that are better for lower
temperatures had higher output voltage than ones not rated for lower
temperatures. Please keep in mind that in general ballasts for
fluorescent lamps longer than 28 inches have output voltage higher than
120V - some to a greater extent than others. A ballast for two 4-footers
often has output voltage around 250-280 volts if it is not a low
temperature model, and even more if it is.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/pro...Id=1611711190&
ccitem=

I took a look, and saw no mention of ballasts rated for low temperatures
having heaters. It is the bulbs rather than the ballasts that are
impaired by low temperatures.

- Don Klipstein )

"Don Klipstein" wrote in message
It is the bulbs rather than the ballasts that are
impaired by low temperatures.

- Don Klipstein )

If that is true, why do low temp fixtures have different ballasts and use
the same bulbs?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"Don Klipstein" wrote in message
It is the bulbs rather than the ballasts that are
impaired by low temperatures.

- Don Klipstein )

If that is true, why do low temp fixtures have different ballasts and use
the same bulbs?


At work the bulb makers came in and gave a talk on them. Due to the
government regulations to reduce or change the materials in the bulbs
(thinking mercury but not sure) the tubes become harder to light off cold.
That makes them require a differant ballast if they are used in a cold area
instead of in a heated building.
If you had some 20 or 30 year new / old stock bulbs they would fire where it
is colder than the newer bulbs will with a standard ballast.

------------------snipped-----------------------
I took a look, and saw no mention of ballasts rated for low temperatures
having heaters. It is the bulbs rather than the ballasts that are
impaired by low temperatures.

- Don Klipstein )

All you have to do is check the amp/watt draw of standard ballast and of one
that is rated for zero degrees. Since they light the same lamp the
difference is the heater.

Heater may be an over simplification.

In article , Edwin
Pawlowski wrote:

"Don Klipstein" wrote in message
It is the bulbs rather than the ballasts that are
impaired by low temperatures.

- Don Klipstein )

If that is true, why do low temp fixtures have different ballasts and use
the same bulbs?

Because the bulbs need extra voltage to start at lower temperatures.
The concentration of mercury vapor in fluorescent bulbs has significant
effect on their operation at room temperature and even at freezing
temperatures, and varies all too significantly with temperature.

As for how significant is mercury in the workings of fluorescent bulbs?
At ideal temperature, the mercury vapor is at most a few tenths of 1% and
sometimes less than 1/10% of the gas/vapor mixture - yet is responsible
for nearly all ultraviolet produced by the diffuse arc that causes the
fluorescent phosphor coating to glow. Even when the mercury vapor content
is as low as .01% of the gas/vapor mix, it is a significant active
ingredient.

Some more details in:

http://www.misty.com/~don/dschtech.html

Yet, the essential mixture of an inert "majority gas" plus the minority
but active ingredient of mercury vapor has a significant sensitivity to
temperature. And the mercury vapor does affect significantly the
electrical characteristics of fluorescent bulbs, especially including
starting through the "Penning effect".
As a result, reliable starting at temperatures significantly lower than
usual requires more voltage. This is the job of the ballast, especially
when the ballast has more than 2 leads.

A lot more info with a bit relevant is in:

http://www.misty.com/~don/f-lamp.html

- Don Klipstein )

In article et, Ralph
Mowery wrote:

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...

"Don Klipstein" wrote in message
It is the bulbs rather than the ballasts that are
impaired by low temperatures.

- Don Klipstein )

If that is true, why do low temp fixtures have different ballasts and use
the same bulbs?


At work the bulb makers came in and gave a talk on them. Due to the
government regulations to reduce or change the materials in the bulbs
(thinking mercury but not sure) the tubes become harder to light off cold.
That makes them require a differant ballast if they are used in a cold area
instead of in a heated building.
If you had some 20 or 30 year new / old stock bulbs they would fire where it
is colder than the newer bulbs will with a standard ballast.

I suspect this is this EPACT that had a somewhat requirement of 40 watt
4-foot bulbs being mandated obsolete and replaced by 34-35 watt ones of
the same physical dimensions, with exemption to "specialty types" such as
UV and colored ones and ones with a color rendering index
meeting/exceeding some qualifier that I believe is somewhere in the
mid-upper 70's.
In such a case I would spend an extra buck per bulb to get Philips
Ultralume or the like with color rendering index around or slightly over
82, as opposed to "Cool White" with a color rendering index in the 60's.

Other alternatives that I less favor a

1. The 34-35 watt ones! My personal experience is that these are
"crankier" and get more so at lower temperatures. And I hear enough
complaints from others in the same area!

2. "Deluxe Cool White", which has color rendering index high enough to
permit "general use" of true-40-watt 4-footers, but with compromised light
output.

More notes:

A) It is easy enough with moderate expense (like an extra dollar to $1.50
per bulb or so) to get color rendering index in the 82-86 range without
compromise in light output. Color rendering index higher than 86 tends to
require a significant compromise in light output.
And the "Deluxe" variants/improvements upon "older tech" fluorescent
bulb designs tend to have significantly compromised light output even if
the color rendering index is not improved past 86.

B) Most of the color distortions by most fluorescent lamps with color
rendering index in the range of 82-86 are "favorable"/"flattering" as in
making most colored objects appear more vivid than "proper".
The opposite is true of most fluorescent lamps that have color rendering
index outside the range of 82-86, whether lower or higher (but lower is
worse).

- Don Klipstein )

In article INg%d.281420$0u.219687@fed1read04, SQLit wrote:
------------------snipped-----------------------
I took a look, and saw no mention of ballasts rated for low temperatures
having heaters. It is the bulbs rather than the ballasts that are
impaired by low temperatures.

- Don Klipstein )

All you have to do is check the amp/watt draw of standard ballast and of one
that is rated for zero degrees. Since they light the same lamp the
difference is the heater.

Heater may be an over simplification.

But the ballast has no ability to warm up externally the bulb.

The difference is that the ballast provides higher voltage that the
bulbs require in non-optimum temperatures. If such a "beefier" ballast
has higher core losses due to being bigger or due to lower effort to
minimize core losses (or lower effort to maximize power factor or to do
whatever other optimizations) this does not indicate that low temperature
ballasts require heat.
The bulbs are well enough known to have significant variations
in performance with varying temperature, including ability to start.
Low temperature ballasts compensate for this by supplying higher voltage.

- Don Klipstein )

"Don Klipstein" wrote in message
...
In article , Edwin
Pawlowski wrote:

"Don Klipstein" wrote in message
It is the bulbs rather than the ballasts that are
impaired by low temperatures.

- Don Klipstein )

If that is true, why do low temp fixtures have different ballasts and use
the same bulbs?

Because the bulbs need extra voltage to start at lower temperatures.
The concentration of mercury vapor in fluorescent bulbs has significant
effect on their operation at room temperature and even at freezing
temperatures, and varies all too significantly with temperature.

Thank you.

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:58:02 -0600, "Ray" wrote:


What other type lights besides incandescent is recommended. I do not want
to pay an arm and a let either.

Please advise...

I recently obtained a shop light made by Regency Lighting Coproration.

It is a Model HSL600.

It is shaped similar to a dual flourescent fixture but it uses 2 300W
halogen bulbs.

It is FANTASTIC!


John Keith

It is shaped similar to a dual flourescent fixture but it uses 2 300W
halogen bulbs.

It is FANTASTIC!


John Keith

=================
I have a stand alone wood shop ... and have both Flourescent lights
and Halogen units mounted next to each other in the ceiling...

6 units of each... 2 4 ft flourescent bulbs per unit OR 2 150 watt
Halogens per unit.....

In the winter I use the Halogen units.. to suplement my furnace...
those suckers throw off a hell of allot of heat....

In the summer I use the flourscent lights to cut down on my air
conditioning bills... lol

Honest the flourscents were replaced with the halogen units because
they were cheap lights and would not lite until I got the shop warm on
cold winter mornings.... Picked the halogens up real cheap and they
did solve the problem... BUT when summer came along I fould how just
how hot those halogens were...so I put the flouescents back up right
next to the halogens...

I may be the olny shop in the world with dual lighting fixtures but
what the Hey.......

Bob Griffiths