Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000 gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground. I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe from the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER

A leaky toilet flapper would do it

"EggRaid" wrote:
I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000 gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground. I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe from the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Geez...200 gallons a day? I'd think if it was an underground leak, the part of
the yard where you sink up to your armpits would be a good hint.

You sure the meter isn't bad? There's not much to them, but gremlins are
tricky devils.

Do you have a crawlspace? Does it look a bit wetter than usual?

EggRaid wrote:
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000 gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground. I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe from the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER


Sure, there are ways to test for that leak.

But...I would start with a call to the utility to see if they
have suggestions or will come out and investigate for you.

At the same time you can ask what requirements you must meet
when replacing the lateral service.

Jim

"EggRaid" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the
meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground. I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe from
the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER


Here is some more info in response to some of the posts:

I called the water service and they said that they can send someone out to
investigate. I turned off all devices in the house---meaning the cut-off
valves to toilets and anything else, and the meter still turns.

There is an area around where the main is that is a little greener than the
rest of the yard, but I don't know if it is significant enough to be b/c of
the leak, or coincidence since that part of the yard has a tree that
protects the grass better during the hot texas months. Also, does this
matter in "winter" anyway?

"EggRaid" wrote:
There is an area around where the main is that is a little greener than the
rest of the yard, but I don't know if it is significant enough to be b/c of
the leak, or coincidence since that part of the yard has a tree that
protects the grass better during the hot texas months. Also, does this
matter in "winter" anyway?

Texas, eh? Slab foundation? Water lines in slab? If so, might need a
plumber with the equipment to "listen" for the water leak hiss.

EggRaid wrote:
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the
past few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except
in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

What kind of bill does 11,000 gallons generate?

"EggRaid" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the
meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground. I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe from
the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER


My last bill was double.I called the water company and they said it had been
estimated due to the snow and that I should just send the regular amount.
Something you might want to check.

"Kathy" wrote in message
...

"EggRaid" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past
few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the
meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the
main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground.
I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe from
the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER


My last bill was double.I called the water company and they said it had
been
estimated due to the snow and that I should just send the regular amount.
Something you might want to check.



Thanks! I did call them however and they are the ones that told me it was
accurate, etc.

wrote in message
oups.com...

EggRaid wrote:
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the
past few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except
in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

What kind of bill does 11,000 gallons generate?


$55

"EggRaid" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the
meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground. I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe from
the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER



11,000 for three months for two people is probably about right. 122 Gallons
per day. For example, from
http://www.waterindustry.org/Water-F...r+use&hl=en&lr
=lang_en

"A typical household in Connecticut uses 200 gallons of water a day, said
John Mullaney, an East Hartford-based USGS hydrologist who worked on the
report."

Better yet, go he

http://www.tampagov.net/dept_water/c...calculator.asp

I used it and came up with the 120 gal per day that we do indeed use.

"Alan" wrote in message
...


11,000 for three months for two people is probably about right. 122
Gallons
per day. For example, from

http://www.waterindustry.org/Water-F...r+use&hl=en&lr
=lang_en

"A typical household in Connecticut uses 200 gallons of water a day, said
John Mullaney, an East Hartford-based USGS hydrologist who worked on the
report."

Better yet, go he


http://www.tampagov.net/dept_water/c...omers/Water_us
e_calculator.asp

I used it and came up with the 120 gal per day that we do indeed use.




I have 2 grownups and 2 teenagers(think 2 showers a day!)in the house and we
use 6-7 thousand gallons a month.

"EggRaid" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the
meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground. I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe from
the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER

I had this happen once, only reason we figured it out was that the water
heater (gas) never shut off.

You should have a valve at the house that will shut off the whole house. For
get about what is inside. Shut it off and if the meter is still turning then
the problem is from the meter to the house. Time for some trenching.
If the problem goes away then it is inside. Now turn off the valve at the
water heater. Hopefully it will hold, if not fix it. If the problem goes
away now you know it is a hot water line. your almost there.

Andy Hill wrote:
"EggRaid" wrote:

There is an area around where the main is that is a little greener than the
rest of the yard, but I don't know if it is significant enough to be b/c of
the leak, or coincidence since that part of the yard has a tree that
protects the grass better during the hot texas months. Also, does this
matter in "winter" anyway?


Texas, eh? Slab foundation? Water lines in slab? If so, might need a
plumber with the equipment to "listen" for the water leak hiss.

I had two pampas plants in both sides of my drive in San Antonio, Texas.
Ran into the same thing, Water folks said the meter was accurate and
upon some investigation noted that the pampas plant on the meter side
was somewhat bigger than that other. Had an excellent plumber who stood
outside my garage and found the leak in a matter of minutes by
listening. I couldn't hear niagara falls if I stood on the edge!
Fortunately the water company agreed that upon getting it fixed they'd
split the bill......

Dennis

Washing machine!
"Kathy" wrote
I have 2 grownups and 2 teenagers(think 2 showers a day!)in the house and
we
use 6-7 thousand gallons a month.

Yes, that's it. Divide and conquer.

"SQLit" wrote
You should have a valve at the house that will shut off the whole house.
For
get about what is inside. Shut it off and if the meter is still turning
then
the problem is from the meter to the house. Time for some trenching.
If the problem goes away then it is inside. Now turn off the valve at the
water heater. Hopefully it will hold, if not fix it. If the problem goes
away now you know it is a hot water line. your almost there.

Turn off all faucets, appliances, etc. Listen for toilet leak. Use
"stethoscope"; big screwdriver pressed to ear on handle end, to toilet body
on other end.
Observe water meter; assuming the meter is moving, you might want to verify
that the meter isn't nuts. It's pretty hard to imagine how a meter could
move, in the absence of water current, but you can listen to the meter. Use
a broom handle that has no broomhead on it. Push one end of handle against
meter, and the other end against your ear. You should hear a click, click,
click. Some people can hear the water meter beating, while they sit in
their houses, when their sprinklers are running.
You might also try this stethoscope method at various locations on the
premises, by pressing against pipes. You might thus "vector" your way to
the proximity of the leak.
Commercial leak detection is available for fresh water (pressure) plumbing.
It senses sound. Appropriate for tiny leaks.
Do you guys flush the toilet a lot?
Take long showers?
Use clothes washer a lot?

"EggRaid" wrote

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe from
the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER

One way to see if you have water leaking is to take a stethoscope and listen
to the
main water line. You can try and compare with the water on and off. Most
likely the break
is with the line coming in the house, not after its in your house. You most
likely see water problems
or moisture problems with an extra 6,000 gallons.

If you dont ahve one of those, just grab the pipe and listen closely.
This is not a loose toilet flap. Check the main water as it goes into the
ground or into
the wall. Is it copper or is it black or grey. In the cases of a broken
water main
you can get someone to insert a copper pipe into the plastic tube and you
will be
good forever.



"EggRaid" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the
meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground. I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe from
the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER

"EggRaid" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the
meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground. I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe from
the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER


I had this problem in my last house. The water bill went from $80 to $350
(roughly). When I called I was told that they noticed the difference and
reread the meter. Yeah, thanks for the phone call / post card I never
received. In any event, all I did was shut off the main to the house and
noticed the meter still turning. So as another poster said....It's time to
trench and replace the line from the meter to the house. By the way this
also happened to me in winter during a cold snap. I suspect that finished
off a 55 year old pipe pretty well......Good Luck, Ross

"Alan" wrote in message
...

"EggRaid" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past
few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the
meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the
main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground.
I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe from
the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER



11,000 for three months for two people is probably about right. 122
Gallons
per day. For example, from

http://www.waterindustry.org/Water-F...r+use&hl=en&lr
=lang_en

"A typical household in Connecticut uses 200 gallons of water a day, said
John Mullaney, an East Hartford-based USGS hydrologist who worked on the
report."

Better yet, go he


http://www.tampagov.net/dept_water/c...calculator.asp

I used it and came up with the 120 gal per day that we do indeed use.




The 11,000 gallons was for ONE month.

Thanks,

ER

"EggRaid" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past
few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except
in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the
meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the
main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in
my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground.
I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe
from
the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER

Okay, here is where we are today. I found the house main cut-off and turned
it off. When I do that, the meter stops running. I wasn't expecting this,
I really thought I would find a leak in the ground between the city main and
the house main.

No toilets are running, I shut them off and the meter still crept. I turned
off the HW heater, didn't do anything (the drain was dry anyway...200Gallons
a day, it would be noticable.)

Well...I will keep trucking, certainly interesting.

F

EggRaid wrote:

....

6000 gal/30 day/24 hr/60 min -- ~ 1 pt/min if I followed your thread
your losing 6k gal in a month above long-term usage.

That's the size of leak you're looking for...toilet flappers could do
it, but I'd think they would be evident. Not know what all you got,
don't have much else specific...

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
EggRaid wrote:

...

6000 gal/30 day/24 hr/60 min -- ~ 1 pt/min if I followed your thread
your losing 6k gal in a month above long-term usage.

That's the size of leak you're looking for...toilet flappers could do
it, but I'd think they would be evident. Not know what all you got,
don't have much else specific...

Exactly. When I shut off the house main, the meter stops. I have outdoor
faucets that run off the sprinkler system and are direct from the city main.
I turned on one of the faucets to emulate the speed of the meter turning to
see how much of a leak I am looking for--it is really slow---just adds up
over time.

Well--After checking the entire house again, turning off every single water
cut-off--not sure what else to do. I agree the meter is fine, since it does
stop when the house main is off. I don't hear a leak, I don't see signs of
water anywhere in the house, and I if I didn't see that meter turning with
my own eyes, I wouldn't believe there to be a problem.

I have an additional home insurance policy (American Home Shield) that
covers plumbing issues--so I opened up a service ticket with them. We'll
get a pro in here and see what he comes up with.

Thaks for your suggestions---you all helped me troubleshoot as much as I
could.

Best,

ER

EggRaid wrote:
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the
past few months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't
using 11,000 gallons between two people. The past year I was barely
breaking 5,000 except in June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I suspect a fire in the squirrel's underground nut-mines.

The boogers often tap into homeowner's water mains to provide emergency fire
suppression.

I know this sounds wacky, but what else could it be?

"EggRaid" wrote in message
...

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
EggRaid wrote:

...

6000 gal/30 day/24 hr/60 min -- ~ 1 pt/min if I followed your thread
your losing 6k gal in a month above long-term usage.

That's the size of leak you're looking for...toilet flappers could do
it, but I'd think they would be evident. Not know what all you got,
don't have much else specific...

Exactly. When I shut off the house main, the meter stops. I have outdoor
faucets that run off the sprinkler system and are direct from the city
main.
I turned on one of the faucets to emulate the speed of the meter turning
to
see how much of a leak I am looking for--it is really slow---just adds up
over time.

Well--After checking the entire house again, turning off every single
water
cut-off--not sure what else to do. I agree the meter is fine, since it
does
stop when the house main is off. I don't hear a leak, I don't see signs
of
water anywhere in the house, and I if I didn't see that meter turning with
my own eyes, I wouldn't believe there to be a problem.

I have an additional home insurance policy (American Home Shield) that
covers plumbing issues--so I opened up a service ticket with them. We'll
get a pro in here and see what he comes up with.

Thaks for your suggestions---you all helped me troubleshoot as much as I
could.

I have a flat-slab house. Had a major failure of a half-inch line under the
slab one night that brought water up between the slab and the footing and
flooded the carpet. If it had been as small as your leak, it probably would
have drained through the soil and never become apparent in my total usage.

Don't know if this has any bearing on your situation, but you might want to
look at the possibility of any buried pipe between the house cutoff and the
house -- or any other buried pipe beyond that cutoff. --- SJF

"SJF" wrote in message
news:kpWRd.18641$Tt.18263@fed1read05...

"EggRaid" wrote in message
...

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
EggRaid wrote:

...

6000 gal/30 day/24 hr/60 min -- ~ 1 pt/min if I followed your thread
your losing 6k gal in a month above long-term usage.

That's the size of leak you're looking for...toilet flappers could do
it, but I'd think they would be evident. Not know what all you got,
don't have much else specific...

Exactly. When I shut off the house main, the meter stops. I have
outdoor
faucets that run off the sprinkler system and are direct from the city
main.
I turned on one of the faucets to emulate the speed of the meter turning
to
see how much of a leak I am looking for--it is really slow---just adds
up
over time.

Well--After checking the entire house again, turning off every single
water
cut-off--not sure what else to do. I agree the meter is fine, since it
does
stop when the house main is off. I don't hear a leak, I don't see signs
of
water anywhere in the house, and I if I didn't see that meter turning
with
my own eyes, I wouldn't believe there to be a problem.

I have an additional home insurance policy (American Home Shield) that
covers plumbing issues--so I opened up a service ticket with them.
We'll
get a pro in here and see what he comes up with.

Thaks for your suggestions---you all helped me troubleshoot as much as I
could.

I have a flat-slab house. Had a major failure of a half-inch line under
the
slab one night that brought water up between the slab and the footing and
flooded the carpet. If it had been as small as your leak, it probably
would
have drained through the soil and never become apparent in my total usage.

Don't know if this has any bearing on your situation, but you might want
to
look at the possibility of any buried pipe between the house cutoff and
the
house -- or any other buried pipe beyond that cutoff. --- SJF


Thanks! And this is exactly what is my worst fear. I have a pro coming out
this week, I will update the group with what the final outcome is.

I found a similar leak by listening to the pipes.

Turn off everthing in the house in the middle of the night (less noise from overhead planes and road traffic)

start in the basement and listen to the drain pipes

if there is water leaving the house via a drain, it will make a trickle sound as it hits the bottom of the drain.

follow the sound back to the source.

I found a laundry tap left on only enough to feed a bleeder line. Nothing in the laundry tub.

Could be a dishwasher, water softener, refrigerator with water connection, or toilet.


good luck

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 17:21:52 GMT, "EggRaid"
wrote:

"EggRaid" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past
few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people. The past year I was barely breaking 5,000 except
in
June when I used the built-in sprinklers.

I turned off all water devices in the house and checked the main--the
meter
is still turning. I also shut off the sprinkler supply at the
main--still
turning.

Certainly I would notice 6,000 gallons of water if it were leaking in
my
house so it would have to be being drained or leaking into the ground.
I
have checked everything in the house and there are no leaks.

What are your suggestions as next steps? How do I test if the pipe
from
the
main to the house is leaking? Should I call a pro, etc?

Thanks,

ER

Okay, here is where we are today. I found the house main cut-off and turned
it off. When I do that, the meter stops running. I wasn't expecting this,
I really thought I would find a leak in the ground between the city main and
the house main.

No toilets are running, I shut them off and the meter still crept. I turned
off the HW heater, didn't do anything (the drain was dry anyway...200Gallons
a day, it would be noticable.)

Well...I will keep trucking, certainly interesting.

F



Bear in mind that turning the valve all the way in the cutoff
direction.. doesn't mean the water is cut off.. (like to the toilet)
These shuttoff valves get crud in them from not being used and fail to
seal when shut off...

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 04:27:52 GMT, Chuck wrote:

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 17:21:52 GMT, "EggRaid"
wrote:

"EggRaid" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have noticed my water bill reflecting increased consumption the past
few
months, but now it has peaked and I know that we aren't using 11,000
gallons
between two people.
this sounds like a tough one. given that the water is far from
free, i would take extraordinary measures. i would turn off the
hot water first. and check if it was still flowing. and check if
the meter still showed flow.

presuming it's cold water i would touch pipes here and
there and see what was coldest. i would open the walls
in my sink cabinets to check pipes there. and while open
i would install all the shutoffs that i could. then i would
start shutting down branch lines from the basement up.
i would say a little prayer.

i don't know how you USers meter your water. in canada,
we have the meter IN THE HOUSE. so if it shows usage
there's no doubt it's me. you guys apparently have the
meter somewhere outside so you could be leaking
into the ground! hard to believe. i don't have any
ideas there.

finally, if nothing panned out, i would call a good plumber.
....thehick

Surely you have a valve in your house to turn off your whole house. Do
that. If meter shows that flow stopped, the leak in your house.

What is the pipe between the meter and the house made of? When was it
installed?

Squirrels live in trees; that's where the nuts are. Maybe OP's water main
runs up into squirrel's tree. Other than this flaw, I like your reasoning.
You should be in the profession.

"JerryMouse" wrote
a fire in the squirrel's underground nut-mines.

The boogers often tap into homeowner's water mains to provide emergency
fire
suppression.

I know this sounds wacky, but what else could it be?

wrote:

Surely you have a valve in your house to turn off your whole house. Do
that. If meter shows that flow stopped, the leak in your house.

What is the pipe between the meter and the house made of? When was it
installed?

Keep up...this was already done a week ago or so...