I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true

go with the highest you can afford. energy costs are going up, and will
never go down. also, pretty soon a 10 seer will be illegal to install.

I up graded to a 16 seer heat pump a/c combo, and it was about $500 more
after the utility company rebate.

Tom


wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true

Goodman manufacturing maker of Amana and Goodman a/c products has been
lobbying the feds for years to reduce the 10 seer requirement. Sighting
among other things that people can not afford the newer higher efficiency
equipment. So far the feds have not moved from the 10 seer requirement.

You need to ask yourself some questions before shopping. How long do you
plan to stay in the home? Is noise an issue? What is your electric rate?
etc.

http://198.147.238.24/ac_calc/default.asp
This web page will help you sort out some of the questions.
I was going to replace a 10 seer with a 12 seer and when the savings came
back at less than $400 a year I decided against spending $5400.00 for a new
a/c cause I am not planning on staying that long.

I have never heard of an variable valve a/c. Variable air speeds and 2 speed
and or 2 stage compressors but nothing in the valves. Maybe one of the guys
that is installing the newer equipment will know about them.
I like the variable speed air fans for humidity control. The one I have
works great for that.
I would get the best scroll compressor that I could afford.
Luck to ya with the decision

'I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. '

The 85% increase is a little high if thats what youve been told. The
increase is because in 12 eer units, there is a Scroll Compressor over
10 eer units. It upps the price . They are quieter and usually more
reliable. Different design vs. reciprocating compressors.

'I've also been told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can
open/close to change the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly,
these "variable" expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent
servicing. Is this true'

Cooling Coils that have this TXV are more efficient and can tolerate
lower indoor load conditions than a fixed metering device can. TXV's
are generally reliable and typically last for many many years before
something goes wrong with them. I would not let this affect your
decision.

"SQLit" wrote in message
news:YhgHd.5933$Nu.555@fed1read04...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true

Goodman manufacturing maker of Amana and Goodman a/c products has been
lobbying the feds for years to reduce the 10 seer requirement. Sighting
among other things that people can not afford the newer higher efficiency
equipment. So far the feds have not moved from the 10 seer requirement.


Energy Department Will Enforce 13 SEER Air Conditioner Standard
Press Release / DOE 2apr04
[ More on SEER Ratings ]

WASHINGTON, DC - The Department of Energy (DOE) announced today that it will
enforce a 13 seasonal energy efficiency rating or "SEER" standard for
residential central air conditioners. This standard, which will apply to
central air conditioners starting in January 2006, increases by 30 percent
the SEER standard that applies to models sold today.

"At this point, all parties have had their day in court," Assistant
Secretary for Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy David Garman said. "DOE
will enforce the 13 SEER standard. In the interest of giving consumers and
industry the regulatory certainty they need, it is time for the government
and for private parties to stop litigating, and start working towards
complying with the 13 SEER standard."

The Energy Department had promulgated a 12 SEER standard in 2002, but
earlier this year, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit ruled
that the department had done so improperly. The air conditioner
manufacturing industry had challenged the 13 SEER, which DOE had issued in
January 2001, but recently withdrew its challenge.

Media contacts: Joe Davis, 202/586-4940 Chris Kielich, 202/586-5806

Number: R-04-064

source:
http://www.doe.gov/engine/content.do...E=PRESSRELEASE
4apr04

"Charles Spitzer" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase.

Those percentage increases in prices do not look right!
Get a system with the Variable TEV.
Get a condensser with a scroll compressor!

go with the highest you can afford. energy costs are going up, and will
never go down. also, pretty soon a 10 seer will be illegal to install.

There are a lot of things that can result in a higher efficiency rated unit
not giving you any increase in efficiency!
http://www.udarrell.com/air-conditio...city-seer.html

http://www.udarrell.com/my_pages2.ht...ITIONING_PAGES

Do some serious studying before you make any decisions. Darrell -
udarrell

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true


This is Turtle.

First I'm not good at Per cents as tring to judge prices because of too many
veriable in the per cent game. Now do looking at the % that you stated here.
They just seem just too high to be called fair. Now for a look at a price
difference of a hvac system usely in 6 different brands I sell here is the price
for a give tonage, type and seer but all three prices is for the same everything
but change the seer rating. I'm looking at the wholesale price sheets and get my
Retail bid prices from them.

10 SEER Same set type system ------------------ $3,200.00 .
12 SEER Same set type system ------------------ $3,950.00 .
14 SEER Same set type system ------------------ $4,725.00 .

These prices are from a bid sheet that I just turned in to a customer and the
profit from the 10 , 12, and 14 seer bits installed are all the same. I make the
same money off the 10 , 12, or the 14 seer and don't care which seer the
customer picks for I make the same money off each. Now do your per cent game if
you like.

TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true


This is Turtle.

First I'm not good at Per cents as tring to judge prices because of too many
veriable in the per cent game. Now do looking at the % that you stated here.
They just seem just too high to be called fair. Now for a look at a price
difference of a hvac system usely in 6 different brands I sell here is the
price for a give tonage, type and seer but all three prices is for the same
everything but change the seer rating. I'm looking at the wholesale price
sheets and get my Retail bid prices from them.

10 SEER Same set type system ------------------ $3,200.00 .
12 SEER Same set type system ------------------ $3,950.00 .
14 SEER Same set type system ------------------ $4,725.00 .

These prices are from a bid sheet that I just turned in to a customer and the
profit from the 10 , 12, and 14 seer bits installed are all the same. I make
the same money off the 10 , 12, or the 14 seer and don't care which seer the
customer picks for I make the same money off each. Now do your per cent game
if you like.

TURTLE

This is Turtle Again.

I forgot about the expanion valve question.

I and the manufactor of hvac equipment concider a expanion valve to be used on
high quality equipment and if your just going cheap type system just use a flow
rater on it and not a expanion valve.

Now to the expanion valve being more trouble or more pronded to have trouble. I
will say a expanion valve would prevent trouble in the future and be a very good
thing to have if your going to keep your system for a long period of time like
20 or 30 years. I change my evaperator coil and furnace out in my house and I
wanted and installed a expanion valve on my system.

Now there is one draw back of having a expanion valve on the system. The
Uneducated and Hack HVAC people don't like them for you have to know what your
gdoing to gas up the systems and they will bad mouth these expanion valves.

TURTLE

Charles Spitzer wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true


go with the highest you can afford. energy costs are going up, and will
never go down. also, pretty soon a 10 seer will be illegal to install.

Did that law go through? Isn't it interesting how one group of
politicials claim the other group of politician is making poor people
more poor, and we need more welfare.

Yet, this same group of politicians make laws that make affordable ACs
illegal for those with low income.
--Mike

"Mike Fritz" wrote in message
k.net...
Charles Spitzer wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true


go with the highest you can afford. energy costs are going up, and will
never go down. also, pretty soon a 10 seer will be illegal to install.

Did that law go through? Isn't it interesting how one group of politicials
claim the other group of politician is making poor people more poor, and
we need more welfare.

Minimum 12 SEER by Jan 2006. For NOW, that is! "They" are pushing for 13
SEER......

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:ulzHd.4200$J6.1285@trnddc02...

"Mike Fritz" wrote in message
k.net...
Charles Spitzer wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true


go with the highest you can afford. energy costs are going up, and will
never go down. also, pretty soon a 10 seer will be illegal to install.

Did that law go through? Isn't it interesting how one group of
politicials
claim the other group of politician is making poor people more poor, and
we need more welfare.

Minimum 12 SEER by Jan 2006. For NOW, that is! "They" are pushing for 13
SEER......



And what about "Puron"?

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:31:54 -0500, "Kathy"
wrote:


"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:ulzHd.4200$J6.1285@trnddc02...

"Mike Fritz" wrote in message
k.net...
Charles Spitzer wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true


go with the highest you can afford. energy costs are going up, and will
never go down. also, pretty soon a 10 seer will be illegal to install.

Did that law go through? Isn't it interesting how one group of
politicials
claim the other group of politician is making poor people more poor, and
we need more welfare.

Minimum 12 SEER by Jan 2006. For NOW, that is! "They" are pushing for 13
SEER......



And what about "Puron"?


Nothing regulates "Puron". Thats just a pretty Carrier name for R410a.
Bubba

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:31:54 -0500, "Kathy"
wrote:


"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:ulzHd.4200$J6.1285@trnddc02...

"Mike Fritz" wrote in message
k.net...
Charles Spitzer wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to
change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true


go with the highest you can afford. energy costs are going up, and
will
never go down. also, pretty soon a 10 seer will be illegal to
install.

Did that law go through? Isn't it interesting how one group of
politicials
claim the other group of politician is making poor people more poor,
and
we need more welfare.

Minimum 12 SEER by Jan 2006. For NOW, that is! "They" are pushing for 13
SEER......



And what about "Puron"?


Nothing regulates "Puron". Thats just a pretty Carrier name for R410a.

Yeah. Has nothing to do with the SEER rating (except I don't think anyone
makes a 410 unit under a 12 SEER, but I could be wrong.....)

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:HsAHd.4261$J6.2063@trnddc02...


Yeah. Has nothing to do with the SEER rating (except I don't think anyone
makes a 410 unit under a 12 SEER, but I could be wrong.....)



I got the buzzword from a magazine article where someone was complaining
that R-22 was poison and will all be replaced by puron in the near future.
It was in a waiting room at the car repair place so it could have been
automotive. It was saying that the old stuff wouldn't be available much
longer.

"Kathy" wrote in message
...

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:ulzHd.4200$J6.1285@trnddc02...

"Mike Fritz" wrote in message
k.net...
Charles Spitzer wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm in the market for a new HVAC system. I've noticed that the higher
SEER units jump dramatically in price going from 10 SEER to 12 to 14.
10-12 is an 85% increase. 12-14 is about %50 increase. I've also been
told that the 12+ SEERs have "variable" (valve can open/close to
change
the pressure gradient) expansion valves. Lastly, these "variable"
expansion valves are prone to failure and frequent servicing.
Is this true


go with the highest you can afford. energy costs are going up, and
will
never go down. also, pretty soon a 10 seer will be illegal to
install.

Did that law go through? Isn't it interesting how one group of
politicials
claim the other group of politician is making poor people more poor,
and
we need more welfare.

Minimum 12 SEER by Jan 2006. For NOW, that is! "They" are pushing for 13
SEER......



And what about "Puron"?


Puron is a marketing scam started by the Chicken Littles of our industry.

I've never believed in it and now they have supposedly come out with a
'drop-in' replacement for R-22.

"Kathy" wrote


I got the buzzword from a magazine article where someone was complaining
that R-22 was poison and will all be replaced by puron in the near future.


Probably the same "someone" that says the internal combustion engine is
destroying the eart and that we all need to go back to the horse and
buggy....

"HeatMan" wrote


Puron is a marketing scam started by the Chicken Littles of our industry.

I've never believed in it and now they have supposedly come out with a
'drop-in' replacement for R-22.

I know this debate has gone 'round and 'round for years now. I have
installed quite a few R410 units and have not had any problems with them
(some are going on 8 years now), but I usually will not sell it unless the
customer asks for it.

And as far as Kathy's question about the availability of R-22: Heatman will
probably agree with me that there is so much out there now that I don't
think we will EVER run out even if they stopped making it today. Some say
the price of it will skyrocket (just like R-12 did), but I think the price
will come DOWN (because of the glut).

Time will tell. Who knows: In another 10 years they will do away with
central a/c systems because we will have a little unit that you carry in
your back pocket that will give you heating and cooling and it will run off
of methane (thus the "back pocket" design)....

;-]

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
news:YjOHd.135$BL3.120@trnddc01...

"HeatMan" wrote


Puron is a marketing scam started by the Chicken Littles of our
industry.

I've never believed in it and now they have supposedly come out with a
'drop-in' replacement for R-22.

I know this debate has gone 'round and 'round for years now. I have
installed quite a few R410 units and have not had any problems with them
(some are going on 8 years now), but I usually will not sell it unless the
customer asks for it.

And as far as Kathy's question about the availability of R-22: Heatman
will
probably agree with me that there is so much out there now that I don't
think we will EVER run out even if they stopped making it today. Some say
the price of it will skyrocket (just like R-12 did), but I think the price
will come DOWN (because of the glut).

Time will tell. Who knows: In another 10 years they will do away with
central a/c systems because we will have a little unit that you carry in
your back pocket that will give you heating and cooling and it will run
off
of methane (thus the "back pocket" design)....

;-]



Gives a new meaning to 'gas' powered...