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I have my portable 5000 watt generator ready to go for winter if I need it.
Instead of running a cord from the generator around the outside of the house
and under the garage door to the appliances that I want to run in side the
house in case of an electrical failure, can I put a female outlet on the
outside of the wall connected to a female outlet inside the wall, then plug
in a 12/2 with a ground coax from the generator to the female outlet outside
on the wall and run my inside cord from there? I would have a male plug in
on each end of the coax. Any suggestions on this?

So when the utility lineman goes to restore your power
lines, your generator creates the 4,000 or 13,000 volts that
kills him? Good reason why we don't do what you are proposing
and why emergency generators connect to household power using
specific switchover hardware. It should have been intuitively
obvious why we don't do what you have proposed.

The switchover hardware includes basic redundancy that all
such systems must contain. Too many foolishly think that
tripping the mains circuit breaker is sufficient. Again,
obviously not. Consult an electrician or review such
equipment solutions in Lowes and Home Depot for further
details.

Mel wrote:
I have my portable 5000 watt generator ready to go for winter if I
need it. Instead of running a cord from the generator around the
outside of the house and under the garage door to the appliances
that I want to run in side the house in case of an electrical
failure, can I put a female outlet on the outside of the wall
connected to a female outlet inside the wall, then plug in a 12/2
with a ground coax from the generator to the female outlet outside
on the wall and run my inside cord from there? I would have a
male plug in on each end of the coax. Any suggestions on this?

That will work, except:
1) 12/2 will only carry 20a. (or, 16a at 80%) Your genny puts out 42a.
If you generator has two 20a outlets on breakers, you could run two of your
circuits.
2) The double male cord is called a suicide cord, for obvious reasons.
Plenty of people use than and I have not heard of a problem, but the
potential is there. To do this properly you should have a recessed male
outlet and a regular extension cord.

Get a transfer panel. A Generac 6 circuit with 2 watt meters , wire,
exterior box and plugs 200$ at Lowes, separatly apx 350-400. Install
apx 3-5 hrs. The panel is pre wired and labeled. It is the safest way,
plus your gen puts out power on 2 legs , a panel lets you balance the
load

Thanks-I'll be going with the transfer panel

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Get a transfer panel. A Generac 6 circuit with 2 watt meters , wire,
exterior box and plugs 200$ at Lowes, separatly apx 350-400. Install
apx 3-5 hrs. The panel is pre wired and labeled. It is the safest way,
plus your gen puts out power on 2 legs , a panel lets you balance the
load

"Mel" wrote in message
...
I have my portable 5000 watt generator ready to go for winter if I need
it.
Instead of running a cord from the generator around the outside of the
house
and under the garage door to the appliances that I want to run in side the
house in case of an electrical failure, can I put a female outlet on the
outside of the wall connected to a female outlet inside the wall, then
plug
in a 12/2 with a ground coax from the generator to the female outlet
outside
on the wall and run my inside cord from there? I would have a male plug
in
on each end of the coax. Any suggestions on this?

This is commonly called an suicide cord. Any thoughts on why?

From: "SQLit"

This is commonly called an suicide cord. Any thoughts on why?

Yes I wonder why, since it's more apt to kill a lineman than the user who made
it, shouldn't it be called a homicide cord?

How do you get 4,000 volts out of a portable generator? I'd like to buy that
brand of generator next time.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
So when the utility lineman goes to restore your power
lines, your generator creates the 4,000 or 13,000 volts that
kills him?

That's called a "suicide cord" rig. It's physically possible, but highly
risky. One of the many risks is leaving the mains on for the house, and
frying a lineman down the street. I'd reccomend against it.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

"Mel" wrote in message
...
I have my portable 5000 watt generator ready to go for winter if I need it.
Instead of running a cord from the generator around the outside of the house
and under the garage door to the appliances that I want to run in side the
house in case of an electrical failure, can I put a female outlet on the
outside of the wall connected to a female outlet inside the wall, then plug
in a 12/2 with a ground coax from the generator to the female outlet outside
on the wall and run my inside cord from there? I would have a male plug in
on each end of the coax. Any suggestions on this?

Wow, that's good. I'm really in awe.

When a Palestinian straps on a bomb and goes into a bunch of Jews, isn't
that a homicide bomber? a suicide bomber would go off alone into the desert.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

"HA HA Budys Here" wrote in message
...
From: "SQLit"

This is commonly called an suicide cord. Any thoughts on why?

Yes I wonder why, since it's more apt to kill a lineman than the user who
made
it, shouldn't it be called a homicide cord?

There has been, in the past, much discussion on this topic. However, I
really wonder what would happen if you connect a 4KW generator to the
dead grid. My guess, and it's only a theory, is that the generator
would stall out due to all the other loads on the line. Just the loads
on your side of the transformer could probably kill a small generator. I
have almost killed my generator during a power failure, by just turning
on a large heater along with all the other loads.

Ready .... discuss.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
That's called a "suicide cord" rig. It's physically possible, but highly
risky. One of the many risks is leaving the mains on for the house, and
frying a lineman down the street. I'd reccomend against it.

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:07:53 -0500 "w_tom"
used 24 lines of text to write in newsgroup: alt.home.repair

So when the utility lineman goes to restore your power
lines, your generator creates the 4,000 or 13,000 volts that
kills him? Good reason why we don't do what you are proposing
and why emergency generators connect to household power using
specific switchover hardware. It should have been intuitively
obvious why we don't do what you have proposed.

The switchover hardware includes basic redundancy that all
such systems must contain. Too many foolishly think that
tripping the mains circuit breaker is sufficient. Again,
obviously not. Consult an electrician or review such
equipment solutions in Lowes and Home Depot for further
details.

I think maybe everyone mis-read his post. I don't think he was
planning on hooking the generator to the rest of the house wiring. I
think he wanted to simply have a way to get the power from the
generator inside the house, then plug in appliances to the isolated
outlet, eliminating a long extension cord run to his garage.

--
-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

Stormin alot of "portable" gens output 4000-5500 watts, define
"portable" , they are usualy 150 -165lb

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
message ...
| How do you get 4,000 volts out of a portable generator? I'd
like to buy that
| brand of generator next time.
|

Everyone seems to have misunderstood the OP's question, but in
answer to this one:
Easy: When used without a transfer switch, the generator power
in the house also goes out thru the fusebox to the transformer on
the pole, and on the other side of the transofrmer, where the
linemen work most, it becomes the x,000 Volts or xx,000 Volts,
that is so dangerous. The normal step-down action of the xfmr
becomes step-up when you put voltage on the house-side of it.

And, should the power come back on, the generator WILL become
toast, even if its voltage settings are higher than the utility
voltage. Being ac, it will not be in phase with the utility and
something's going to have to give - most always the generator
unless it's a huge one, in which case the pole xfmr will explode
or at least smoke with vigor. Circuit breakers might help limit
the damage some, but most likely the generator is still going to
be toasted. If they protect anything, it will be the pole xfmr.

Pop

(HA HA Budys Here) wrote:

From: "SQLit"

This is commonly called an suicide cord. Any thoughts on why?

Yes I wonder why, since it's more apt to kill a lineman than the user who made
it, shouldn't it be called a homicide cord?

I've heard it referred to as a "widowmaker" cord.

The switchover hardware includes basic redundancy that all
such systems must contain. Too many foolishly think that
tripping the mains circuit breaker is sufficient. Again,
obviously not.

Hmm. Not so obvious to me. What more would have to be done other than
killing the main breaker to disconnect the house from the grid?

We are discussing human life. That means everything needs,
at minimum, double redundancy. Where are the layers of
protection? Again, this is obvious and a basic fact of life.
Flip one circuit breaker and numerous failures could occur
from damage to the generator, house fire, and even
electrocuting a lineman with 4000 or 13000 volts.

If that need for redundancy is not extremely obvious, well,
I sure hope you don't do any designing. I sure hope that is
not you sitting at a stop sign just waiting to floor it. This
too are why we require redundancy. Again obvious. Why a
driver always looks twice - if not more - before pulling out.

Robert Barr wrote:
The switchover hardware includes basic redundancy that all
such systems must contain. Too many foolishly think that
tripping the mains circuit breaker is sufficient. Again,
obviously not.

Hmm. Not so obvious to me. What more would have to be done other than
killing the main breaker to disconnect the house from the grid?

Art Todesco wrote:
There has been, in the past, much discussion on this topic. However, I
really wonder what would happen if you connect a 4KW generator to the
dead grid. My guess, and it's only a theory, is that the generator
would stall out due to all the other loads on the line. Just the loads
on your side of the transformer could probably kill a small generator. I
have almost killed my generator during a power failure, by just turning
on a large heater along with all the other loads.

Ready .... discuss.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

That's called a "suicide cord" rig. It's physically possible, but highly
risky. One of the many risks is leaving the mains on for the house, and
frying a lineman down the street. I'd reccomend against it.

Please read http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/90pr05.html There are at least two
more that have been documented by OSHA FACE reports. The answer depends
a great deal on the nature of the damage to the outside lines and the
nature of the connected loads. Please keep in mind that it takes a
tenth of an amp to cause ventricular fibrillation which is invariably
fatal unless a defibrillator is applied within minutes.

I am just one of the nations fire and rescue personnel and I have
responded to an incident of a utility worker injured by a generator back
feed. The risk is real even though that has nothing to do with the OP's
original question.
--
Tom H

According to Mel :
I have my portable 5000 watt generator ready to go for winter if I need it.
Instead of running a cord from the generator around the outside of the house
and under the garage door to the appliances that I want to run in side the
house in case of an electrical failure, can I put a female outlet on the
outside of the wall connected to a female outlet inside the wall, then plug
in a 12/2 with a ground coax from the generator to the female outlet outside
on the wall and run my inside cord from there? I would have a male plug in
on each end of the coax. Any suggestions on this?

The recommendation for a proper transfer switch is a very good one.

The transfer switch allows you to leave everything inside the house more
or less as it is, and you get to run whole in-house circuits off the generator.

I'm just going to point out something that people missed when they started
talking about "suicide cords".

What you're trying to describe is run an extension cord thru
the wall and run your equipment off extension cords on the inside
of the house.

No need for double males/double females, or any of that sillyness.

Suicide cords are "required" (and code-illegal) when you're trying to
backfeed an existing circuit...

You want something slightly different.

Think of it this way, it's just a short extension cord running through
a hole. You could string a piece of suitable cord thru the wall
and attach the appropriate connectors. But, running power cord thru
walls is a code no-no.

You want a male receptacle on the outside of the building, and a female
on the inside - you need nothing more than a single box open at both
ends. You run an ordinary extension cord from the generator
to the male, and an ordinary extension cord from the female to the
loads you want to run.

You _can_ get weatherproof _male_ receptacles. I have one on my shed, so
that occasionally I can power a few things in my shed with an extension
cord from the house.

Obviously, with a 5000W generator, that's more than a regular extension
cord can handle. You'll need two separate sets (of 20A) for opposite sites
of the feed. Or, use a 4-wire connector/cable from the generator and a
mini-panel on the inside feeding a few circuits of its own...

And then you have to consider grounding et. al.

Once you think that far, you'll want to consider transfer switches ;-)
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Oh ****. You gone and got old w_tom all wound up. Now we'll all pay the
price.

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
We are discussing human life. That means everything needs,
at minimum, double redundancy. Where are the layers of
protection? Again, this is obvious and a basic fact of life.
Flip one circuit breaker and numerous failures could occur
from damage to the generator, house fire, and even
electrocuting a lineman with 4000 or 13000 volts.

If that need for redundancy is not extremely obvious, well,
I sure hope you don't do any designing. I sure hope that is
not you sitting at a stop sign just waiting to floor it. This
too are why we require redundancy. Again obvious. Why a
driver always looks twice - if not more - before pulling out.

Robert Barr wrote:
The switchover hardware includes basic redundancy that all
such systems must contain. Too many foolishly think that
tripping the mains circuit breaker is sufficient. Again,
obviously not.

Hmm. Not so obvious to me. What more would have to be done other than
killing the main breaker to disconnect the house from the grid?

Many gennies have circuit breakers for this situation. I doubt a 4 KW would
power the grid (down to a lineman) without tripping off the breaker. But why
take chances?

And as a courtesy to all who consider this a heated and passionate topic
"YOUR A TOTAL IDIYOT!!!!!" hoping you feel better, now.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

"Art Todesco" wrote in message
news:HHVld.32783$V41.20513@attbi_s52...
There has been, in the past, much discussion on this topic. However, I
really wonder what would happen if you connect a 4KW generator to the
dead grid. My guess, and it's only a theory, is that the generator
would stall out due to all the other loads on the line. Just the loads
on your side of the transformer could probably kill a small generator. I
have almost killed my generator during a power failure, by just turning
on a large heater along with all the other loads.

Ready .... discuss.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
That's called a "suicide cord" rig. It's physically possible, but highly
risky. One of the many risks is leaving the mains on for the house, and
frying a lineman down the street. I'd reccomend against it.

According to Stormin Mormon :
Many gennies have circuit breakers for this situation. I doubt a 4 KW would
power the grid (down to a lineman) without tripping off the breaker. But why
take chances?

Indeed.

Let's say you're the only person fed off a particular 4K_volt_ pole pig, and an
ice storm has pulled the supply wire off.

You've inadequately set up your generator, and the generator is back feeding
the pole pig. The input side of the pole pig is now presenting 4K _volts_ to
an unsuspecting lineman. But that's the dead side, right? Wrong. _Both_
ends of the break are live.

Expecting a 40 _amp_ breaker to trip fast enough (or at all) to save someone's
life? Not a chance.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
message ...
| Many gennies have circuit breakers for this situation. I doubt
a 4 KW would
| power the grid (down to a lineman) without tripping off the
breaker. But why
| take chances?

That's a dangerous attitude. Your doubts are dangerous and
should be kept to yourself as you have zero, nada idea what
you're talking about. You only show your ignorance spouting crap
like that.

|
| And as a courtesy to all who consider this a heated and
passionate topic
| "YOUR A TOTAL IDIYOT!!!!!" hoping you feel better, now.

Now there's a great example of the pot calling the kettle black!

I consider it what I consider it, and that's all I consider it.

Pop

Stormin once again proves why he is not an employable Repair-Tech.

In article , "Stormin Mormon" wrote:
Many gennies have circuit breakers for this situation. I doubt a 4 KW would
power the grid (down to a lineman) without tripping off the breaker.

It doesn't have to power the grid to be dangerous -- it just has to power the
part that the lineman's working on.

But why take chances?

Indeed.

In article , "Stormin Mormon" wrote:
How do you get 4,000 volts out of a portable generator? I'd like to buy that
brand of generator next time.

By backfeeding a transformer.

If the utility company's transformer steps 4KV *down* to 240 for your service
drop, and you backfeed 240 into the load side, it's stepping that 240 back
*up* to 4KV on the line side.

How did you get from watts to volts?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to Stormin Mormon :
Many gennies have circuit breakers for this situation. I doubt a 4 KW
would
power the grid (down to a lineman) without tripping off the breaker. But
why
take chances?

Indeed.

Let's say you're the only person fed off a particular 4K_volt_ pole pig, and
an
ice storm has pulled the supply wire off.

You've inadequately set up your generator, and the generator is back feeding
the pole pig. The input side of the pole pig is now presenting 4K _volts_
to
an unsuspecting lineman. But that's the dead side, right? Wrong. _Both_
ends of the break are live.

Expecting a 40 _amp_ breaker to trip fast enough (or at all) to save
someone's
life? Not a chance.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

You show your buttside when you criticize wtihout adding any useful
information. You're so smart.... you give us the answer.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

"Pop" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
message ...
| Many gennies have circuit breakers for this situation. I doubt
a 4 KW would
| power the grid (down to a lineman) without tripping off the
breaker. But why
| take chances?

That's a dangerous attitude. Your doubts are dangerous and
should be kept to yourself as you have zero, nada idea what
you're talking about. You only show your ignorance spouting crap
like that.

|
| And as a courtesy to all who consider this a heated and
passionate topic
| "YOUR A TOTAL IDIYOT!!!!!" hoping you feel better, now.

Now there's a great example of the pot calling the kettle black!

I consider it what I consider it, and that's all I consider it.

Pop

Be interesting to call my local utility some time and see if that's the line
voltage otu there.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com...
In article , "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
How do you get 4,000 volts out of a portable generator? I'd like to buy
that
brand of generator next time.

By backfeeding a transformer.

If the utility company's transformer steps 4KV *down* to 240 for your
service
drop, and you backfeed 240 into the load side, it's stepping that 240 back
*up* to 4KV on the line side.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

How did you get from watts to volts?

Watts = volts * amps. (simple case, no power factor).

4000 watts = 20 amps at 200 volts
or
4000 watts = 2 amps at 2000 volts.
or
4000 watts = 1 amp at 4000 volts
or
4000 watts = .1 amp (lethal) at 40,000 volts.

John Hines wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

How did you get from watts to volts?

Watts = volts * amps. (simple case, no power factor).

i.e,

Volts = Watts / Amps
Amps = Watts / Volts

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

So, if I stick a fork in the end of my generator, you are telling me I can
get 4,000 volts? I don't think so!

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

"John Hines" wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

How did you get from watts to volts?

Watts = volts * amps. (simple case, no power factor).

4000 watts = 20 amps at 200 volts
or
4000 watts = 2 amps at 2000 volts.
or
4000 watts = 1 amp at 4000 volts
or
4000 watts = .1 amp (lethal) at 40,000 volts.

In all the time I've worked on electric, it's always been about 110 volts to
ground, unless there is a transformer or a resistor. Now, supposing I put a
110 volt generator on a house and back feed. It's still going to go through
the wall at 110 volts. Not 4,000 volts.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
...
John Hines wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

How did you get from watts to volts?

Watts = volts * amps. (simple case, no power factor).

i.e,

Volts = Watts / Amps
Amps = Watts / Volts

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

Moron, I mean, Mormon, I was just following your lead g.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
message ...
| You show your buttside when you criticize wtihout adding any
useful
| information. You're so smart.... you give us the answer.
|
| --
|
| Christopher A. Young
| Learn more about Jesus
| www.lds.org
| www.mormons.com
|
|
| "Pop" wrote in message
| ...
|
| "Stormin Mormon" wrote in
| message ...
|| Many gennies have circuit breakers for this situation. I doubt
| a 4 KW would
|| power the grid (down to a lineman) without tripping off the
| breaker. But why
|| take chances?
|
| That's a dangerous attitude. Your doubts are dangerous and
| should be kept to yourself as you have zero, nada idea what
| you're talking about. You only show your ignorance spouting
crap
| like that.
|
||
|| And as a courtesy to all who consider this a heated and
| passionate topic
|| "YOUR A TOTAL IDIYOT!!!!!" hoping you feel better, now.
|
| Now there's a great example of the pot calling the kettle
black!
|
| I consider it what I consider it, and that's all I consider it.
|
| Pop
|
|
|

You should get the LDS and Mormon refs out of your signature.
First off, the Mormons I know wouldn't use a computer, and you
obviously are a phoney. Go call your utility; tell them how you
hook up a generator and see what they say. Be prepared to have a
checkbook for the deposit you'll have to put down.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
message ...
| Be interesting to call my local utility some time and see if
that's the line
| voltage otu there.
|
| --
|
| Christopher A. Young
| Learn more about Jesus
| www.lds.org
| www.mormons.com
|
|
| "Doug Miller" wrote in message
| . com...
| In article , "Stormin
Mormon"
| wrote:
| How do you get 4,000 volts out of a portable generator? I'd
like to buy
| that
| brand of generator next time.
|
| By backfeeding a transformer.
|
| If the utility company's transformer steps 4KV *down* to 240
for your
| service
| drop, and you backfeed 240 into the load side, it's stepping
that 240 back
| *up* to 4KV on the line side.
|
|

"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

So, if I stick a fork in the end of my generator, you are telling me I can
get 4,000 volts? I don't think so!

The discussion is about reverse feeding the transformer on the pole.

If you connect your generator to a transformer you can have any voltage
you want.

Learn some basics my friend, as you look like a stupid, ignorant, fool.

The discussion was about reverse feeding power through your circuit panel
box and out onto the grid. You're the first person to mention a transformer.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

"John Hines" wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

So, if I stick a fork in the end of my generator, you are telling me I can
get 4,000 volts? I don't think so!

The discussion is about reverse feeding the transformer on the pole.

If you connect your generator to a transformer you can have any voltage
you want.

Learn some basics my friend, as you look like a stupid, ignorant, fool.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

The discussion was about reverse feeding power through your circuit panel
box and out onto the grid. You're the first person to mention a transformer.

That is because the rest of us know how the grid works.

The grid doesn't run at 220V like your house does. There is a
transformer (aka pole pig) for every half dozen houses or so.

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