I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463

On 4/3/2021 12:37 PM, micky wrote:
I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463


One says Toyota, the other says Lexus. Could be the same but you pay for
the single versus bulk pack?

What is the price at a typucal auto parts store?

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 3 Apr 2021 14:26:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/3/2021 12:37 PM, micky wrote:
I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463


One says Toyota, the other says Lexus.

Good point. Neither says my car, a Solara, but I figured 3.3L and the
year 2005 was enough. OTOH, in a video I watched, he bought the wrong
one, it was too long. I'd have to watch it again to see if he made a big
mistake, a poor assumption, or if they sent him the wrong thing. (He
bought another one later in the video.)

Could be the same but you pay for
the single versus bulk pack?

What is the price at a typucal auto parts store?

Good question. Autozone for my car has

Duralast Multi Pack Coil On Plug Ignition Premium Replacement Ignition
Coil 6 Pack C1452-6

for $357. Wow. Not offered singly.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 3 Apr 2021 14:26:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/3/2021 12:37 PM, micky wrote:
I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463


One says Toyota, the other says Lexus. Could be the same but you pay for
the single versus bulk pack?

BTW, I can't even get at the rear 3 ignition coils without taking out
the intake manifold and lots of little things.

It runs smoothly, as nice as ever afaict. Has plenty of acceleration and
power.

I erased the codes (cyls 1, 2, and random) and I'll wait to see if they
come back. (of course, they will.)

What is the price at a typucal auto parts store?

On 4/3/2021 6:37 AM, micky wrote:
I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463

Your links shows $32 each.
Denso is a quality brand at a good price point.
[I go Denso although I have found generic Chinese equally useful.]
If you are replacing a COP in the rear bank which requires removal of
the intake manifold, replace all 3.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 3 Apr 2021 10:11:52 -1000, John Keiser
wrote:

On 4/3/2021 6:37 AM, micky wrote:
I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463

Your links shows $32 each.

The first one does, but it was $70 yesterday! (It shows as marked down
from that 70 and if you were unlucky enough to buy it yesterday, that's
what they charged! Do you think any webpage is smart enough to charge
more the first time you look at it and then lower the price a day later?
That's what a live salesman might do, and you could write software to do
it, I guess just using cookies would be enough, but I've never noticed a
substantial reduction in price before after only a day or two.)

The second one shows that price too, and it was that same price
yesterday.

Denso is a quality brand at a good price point.
[I go Denso although I have found generic Chinese equally useful.]
If you are replacing a COP in the rear bank which requires removal of
the intake manifold, replace all 3.

Makes sense.

Without a garage and another car and more energy than I have these days,
I don't think I can remove the intake manifold and also get it back on.
(I'm pretty sure I can do the first part.)

I have (or had**) a misfire on cylinder 1 and 2 out of 6, plus a random
misfire, but iiuc it could be the injector, the injector circuit, or a
couple less likely things (compression, fuel pressure).

**I just discovered this yesterday. I cleared those codes this morning
but haven't gone anywhere since. They're just about sure to re-apperar,
I assume. It runs smoothly, as nice as ever. Has plenty of
acceleration and power.


**I watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkQgNyUmDHo where
he replaces the spark plugs in the rear bank, in a car just like mine
but one year older. It takes 21 minutes not counting parts he skips
(including replacing the plugs!) and not counting reassembly, It's all
disassembly. Well,maybe I could do this. I suppose I could take
picture and make notes and then I could get it back together. I could
bring all the parts inside overnight.

(I'd like to do something fairly big at least once. I'd like to rebuild
an engine but I'll never do that.)

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 15:40:31 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 3 Apr 2021 14:26:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/3/2021 12:37 PM, micky wrote:
I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463


One says Toyota, the other says Lexus. Could be the same but you pay for
the single versus bulk pack?

BTW, I can't even get at the rear 3 ignition coils without taking out
the intake manifold and lots of little things.

It runs smoothly, as nice as ever afaict. Has plenty of acceleration and
power.

I erased the codes (cyls 1, 2, and random) and I'll wait to see if they
come back. (of course, they will.)

What is the price at a typucal auto parts store?
Chasing the o2 sensor problem and coil problem on the same car???
99.999% chance it is neither the coil OR the O2 sensor. You most
likely have a small vacuum leak somewhere. Take it to a real mechanic
and save yourelf a lot of aggravation AND money. Your local Toyota
dealer has likely dealt with exactly the same problem before and will
know EXACTLY where to look for the problem and how to fix it. Even a
GOOD independent will at least know how to troubleshoot it even if
he's never seen the exact issue before.

On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 10:11:52 -1000, John Keiser
wrote:

On 4/3/2021 6:37 AM, micky wrote:
I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463

Your links shows $32 each.
Denso is a quality brand at a good price point.
[I go Denso although I have found generic Chinese equally useful.]
If you are replacing a COP in the rear bank which requires removal of
the intake manifold, replace all 3.
Denso is Toyota OEM - I believe majority or wholly owned by Toyota.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 17:01:31 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 3 Apr 2021 10:11:52 -1000, John Keiser
wrote:

On 4/3/2021 6:37 AM, micky wrote:
I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463

Your links shows $32 each.

The first one does, but it was $70 yesterday! (It shows as marked down
from that 70 and if you were unlucky enough to buy it yesterday, that's
what they charged! Do you think any webpage is smart enough to charge
more the first time you look at it and then lower the price a day later?
That's what a live salesman might do, and you could write software to do
it, I guess just using cookies would be enough, but I've never noticed a
substantial reduction in price before after only a day or two.)

The second one shows that price too, and it was that same price
yesterday.

Denso is a quality brand at a good price point.
[I go Denso although I have found generic Chinese equally useful.]
If you are replacing a COP in the rear bank which requires removal of
the intake manifold, replace all 3.

Makes sense.

Without a garage and another car and more energy than I have these days,
I don't think I can remove the intake manifold and also get it back on.
(I'm pretty sure I can do the first part.)

I have (or had**) a misfire on cylinder 1 and 2 out of 6, plus a random
misfire, but iiuc it could be the injector, the injector circuit, or a
couple less likely things (compression, fuel pressure).

**I just discovered this yesterday. I cleared those codes this morning
but haven't gone anywhere since. They're just about sure to re-apperar,
I assume. It runs smoothly, as nice as ever. Has plenty of
acceleration and power.


**I watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkQgNyUmDHo where
he replaces the spark plugs in the rear bank, in a car just like mine
but one year older. It takes 21 minutes not counting parts he skips
(including replacing the plugs!) and not counting reassembly, It's all
disassembly. Well,maybe I could do this. I suppose I could take
picture and make notes and then I could get it back together. I could
bring all the parts inside overnight.

(I'd like to do something fairly big at least once. I'd like to rebuild
an engine but I'll never do that.)
Pick up a junk lawnmower and rebuild it if you want "the experience"
or "bragging rights"

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 03 Apr 2021 17:28:10 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 15:40:31 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 3 Apr 2021 14:26:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/3/2021 12:37 PM, micky wrote:
I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463


One says Toyota, the other says Lexus. Could be the same but you pay for
the single versus bulk pack?

BTW, I can't even get at the rear 3 ignition coils without taking out
the intake manifold and lots of little things.

It runs smoothly, as nice as ever afaict. Has plenty of acceleration and
power.

I erased the codes (cyls 1, 2, and random) and I'll wait to see if they
come back. (of course, they will.)

What is the price at a typucal auto parts store?
Chasing the o2 sensor problem and coil problem on the same car???

That combination of problems really scared me last night, and I had just
about given in and was going to take it somewhere, until I thought, It's
gonna cost me 1000 dollars or more.

The P0171 and P0174 started last year and the misfire problem, P0300,
P0301, P0302**, I only learned about yesterday. Last year, for the lean
mixture, I clenaed the MAF sensor with MAF Sensor Cleaner, replaced the
MAF sensor, replaced the PCV valve, inspected the air cleaner (which was
very clean), looked at length for vacuum leaks, inspected that big
plastic pipe from air cleanner to the next boxy thing, and maybe
something else.

**Actually, the Maintenannce dash light went on about 4 months ago, but
I didn't read the codes again at that time. Are the misfires really
going to damage my engine like one webpage said? So far it seems to run
the same.

I didn't check the fuel pump or filter or injectors, but the car had and
has loads of power and acceleration. Its only bad symptom is that it
stumbles a little as I leave a stop sign. But if I handle my foot just
right and don't try to get a jack-rabbit start, I can even avoid that.
Still, it's definitely a problem.

I figured since it has so much power and other-than-from-stopped easy
acceleration, it's not the fuel pump or filter or injectors. ?? And
there is no nipple on this car to connect a fuel pressure gauge.

That left the O2 sensors but I was in idiot mode and thought I should be
suspecting the downstream sensors which are both hard to replace without
a lift or at least ramps on flat ground. I read the meterial again and
IIUC it's the upstream sensors that matter here, and one of those is
easy to change. (The rear one is behind the engine, have to remove the
intake manifold etc. I think. I am scared to even start that.)

OTOH, since it's both banks, maybe there is some common cause but
unrelated to banks. OT3H, since both sensors are original and were 15
years old, maybe they both wore out.

99.999% chance it is neither the coil OR the O2 sensor. You most
likely have a small vacuum leak somewhere. Take it to a real mechanic

When this problem first started, I spend a lot of time looking for a
vacuum leak. I checked every hose and hose connection. They were all
firm and none were brittle. Then I didn't want to spray brake cleaner
like was suggested, so went around with an unlit but open propane torch,
sticking it everywhere I could find and waiting for the idle speed to
increase. It never did.

Just now I read that brake cleaner doesn't leave residue like I thought
it did. Should I start again looking for vacuum leaks with brake
cleaner?

Is there something else to do?

and save yourelf a lot of aggravation AND money. Your local Toyota

I don't want to waste money, but I like wasting aggravation. That's one
way to learn, and to learn without ever forgetting. And the weather has
just started to be beautiful. Time spent working outside on the car,
even if you don't fix it, has to be better for your health and your
mood than time spent in front of a PC monitor.

dealer has likely dealt with exactly the same problem before and will
know EXACTLY where to look for the problem and how to fix it. Even a

That's a good idea, except, on the previous Toyota, after I replaced the
broken right front axle, broken brake rotor, broken rim, and one related
part that I forget, I took it to the local Toyota for a wheel alignment
and they tried to cheat me. They claimed that CV boots on BOTH sides
needed replacing. After they wrote this, I jacked the left side up and
went over that side carefully and couldln't find even a crack, let alone
a rip, and the right side was new with only 30 miles on it.

Plus they said I had a substantial oil leak, even though I never or
almost never had to add oil (even afterwards) and I think they had a
couple other complaints which didn't ring true.

Tbey've been bought out since then, but I have no special reason to
think they are any more honest. They probably kept the same mechanics
mostly and if they still get incentives for selling repairs, whoever
lied to me last time will still lie to me.

And they have it set up so you don't even see the mechanic or the shop.
You take the car to a biggg carport, get out, and some auto-jockey
drives it around to the other side of the building to a shop with 20 or
more bigg bays. So someone with compunctions who might not be able to
lie to my face has it easier; he only has to lie to a piece of paper.

What should I do?


GOOD independent will at least know how to troubleshoot it even if
he's never seen the exact issue before.

That's a possibility, but I still want to try myself. I think because
I've had fewer home or car repairs needed, until this one, and I spend
my time fiddling with Windows instead of something physical, I've gained
weight.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 20:27:39 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 03 Apr 2021 17:28:10 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 15:40:31 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 3 Apr 2021 14:26:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/3/2021 12:37 PM, micky wrote:
I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463


One says Toyota, the other says Lexus. Could be the same but you pay for
the single versus bulk pack?

BTW, I can't even get at the rear 3 ignition coils without taking out
the intake manifold and lots of little things.

It runs smoothly, as nice as ever afaict. Has plenty of acceleration and
power.

I erased the codes (cyls 1, 2, and random) and I'll wait to see if they
come back. (of course, they will.)

What is the price at a typucal auto parts store?
Chasing the o2 sensor problem and coil problem on the same car???

That combination of problems really scared me last night, and I had just
about given in and was going to take it somewhere, until I thought, It's
gonna cost me 1000 dollars or more.

The P0171 and P0174 started last year and the misfire problem, P0300,
P0301, P0302**, I only learned about yesterday. Last year, for the lean
mixture, I clenaed the MAF sensor with MAF Sensor Cleaner, replaced the
MAF sensor, replaced the PCV valve, inspected the air cleaner (which was
very clean), looked at length for vacuum leaks, inspected that big
plastic pipe from air cleanner to the next boxy thing, and maybe
something else.

A missfire can cause your 171 and 174 codes. A misfire allows unused
oxygen (along with unburned fuel) into the exhaust - and particularly
if it is an injector problem causing the miss meaning no extra fuel,
the oxygen sensor legitimately sees a lean mixture.

You need to be able to read the snapshot data to know what was
happeneing when the sensor read lean - what was engine temperature,
rpm, load, engine speed, etc. Then do the same for the misfire code
and you can pretty much relate the two or rule them out.

Erasing the codes also shuts off the "monitors" and untill the
monitors reset you won't get a code - even IF you hve a problem.

I've even seen an angine run "pig rich" because of a vacuum leak or a
bad injector as the computer richens the mixture to try to correct
what it sees as a lean mixture - it richens the good cyls excessively
trying to compensate for the one lean one.

Intermittent misfires are OFTEN flakey vacuum leaks.

**Actually, the Maintenannce dash light went on about 4 months ago, but
I didn't read the codes again at that time. Are the misfires really
going to damage my engine like one webpage said? So far it seems to run
the same.

I didn't check the fuel pump or filter or injectors, but the car had and
has loads of power and acceleration. Its only bad symptom is that it
stumbles a little as I leave a stop sign. But if I handle my foot just
right and don't try to get a jack-rabbit start, I can even avoid that.
Still, it's definitely a problem.

I figured since it has so much power and other-than-from-stopped easy
acceleration, it's not the fuel pump or filter or injectors. ?? And
there is no nipple on this car to connect a fuel pressure gauge.

That left the O2 sensors but I was in idiot mode and thought I should be
suspecting the downstream sensors which are both hard to replace without
a lift or at least ramps on flat ground. I read the meterial again and
IIUC it's the upstream sensors that matter here, and one of those is
easy to change. (The rear one is behind the engine, have to remove the
intake manifold etc. I think. I am scared to even start that.)

OTOH, since it's both banks, maybe there is some common cause but
unrelated to banks. OT3H, since both sensors are original and were 15
years old, maybe they both wore out.

99.999% chance it is neither the coil OR the O2 sensor. You most
likely have a small vacuum leak somewhere. Take it to a real mechanic

When this problem first started, I spend a lot of time looking for a
vacuum leak. I checked every hose and hose connection. They were all
firm and none were brittle. Then I didn't want to spray brake cleaner
like was suggested, so went around with an unlit but open propane torch,
sticking it everywhere I could find and waiting for the idle speed to
increase. It never did.

Just now I read that brake cleaner doesn't leave residue like I thought
it did. Should I start again looking for vacuum leaks with brake
cleaner?

Is there something else to do?

and save yourelf a lot of aggravation AND money. Your local Toyota

I don't want to waste money, but I like wasting aggravation. That's one
way to learn, and to learn without ever forgetting. And the weather has
just started to be beautiful. Time spent working outside on the car,
even if you don't fix it, has to be better for your health and your
mood than time spent in front of a PC monitor.

dealer has likely dealt with exactly the same problem before and will
know EXACTLY where to look for the problem and how to fix it. Even a

That's a good idea, except, on the previous Toyota, after I replaced the
broken right front axle, broken brake rotor, broken rim, and one related
part that I forget, I took it to the local Toyota for a wheel alignment
and they tried to cheat me. They claimed that CV boots on BOTH sides
needed replacing. After they wrote this, I jacked the left side up and
went over that side carefully and couldln't find even a crack, let alone
a rip, and the right side was new with only 30 miles on it.

Plus they said I had a substantial oil leak, even though I never or
almost never had to add oil (even afterwards) and I think they had a
couple other complaints which didn't ring true.

Tbey've been bought out since then, but I have no special reason to
think they are any more honest. They probably kept the same mechanics
mostly and if they still get incentives for selling repairs, whoever
lied to me last time will still lie to me.

And they have it set up so you don't even see the mechanic or the shop.
You take the car to a biggg carport, get out, and some auto-jockey
drives it around to the other side of the building to a shop with 20 or
more bigg bays. So someone with compunctions who might not be able to
lie to my face has it easier; he only has to lie to a piece of paper.

What should I do?


GOOD independent will at least know how to troubleshoot it even if
he's never seen the exact issue before.

That's a possibility, but I still want to try myself. I think because
I've had fewer home or car repairs needed, until this one, and I spend
my time fiddling with Windows instead of something physical, I've gained
weight.

On 4/3/2021 11:01 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 3 Apr 2021 10:11:52 -1000, John Keiser
wrote:

On 4/3/2021 6:37 AM, micky wrote:
I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463

Your links shows $32 each.

The first one does, but it was $70 yesterday! (It shows as marked down
from that 70 and if you were unlucky enough to buy it yesterday, that's
what they charged! Do you think any webpage is smart enough to charge
more the first time you look at it and then lower the price a day later?
That's what a live salesman might do, and you could write software to do
it, I guess just using cookies would be enough, but I've never noticed a
substantial reduction in price before after only a day or two.)

The second one shows that price too, and it was that same price
yesterday.

Denso is a quality brand at a good price point.
[I go Denso although I have found generic Chinese equally useful.]
If you are replacing a COP in the rear bank which requires removal of
the intake manifold, replace all 3.

Makes sense.

Without a garage and another car and more energy than I have these days,
I don't think I can remove the intake manifold and also get it back on.
(I'm pretty sure I can do the first part.)

I have (or had**) a misfire on cylinder 1 and 2 out of 6, plus a random
misfire, but iiuc it could be the injector, the injector circuit, or a
couple less likely things (compression, fuel pressure).

**I just discovered this yesterday. I cleared those codes this morning
but haven't gone anywhere since. They're just about sure to re-apperar,
I assume. It runs smoothly, as nice as ever. Has plenty of
acceleration and power.


**I watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkQgNyUmDHo where
he replaces the spark plugs in the rear bank, in a car just like mine
but one year older. It takes 21 minutes not counting parts he skips
(including replacing the plugs!) and not counting reassembly, It's all
disassembly. Well,maybe I could do this. I suppose I could take
picture and make notes and then I could get it back together. I could
bring all the parts inside overnight.

(I'd like to do something fairly big at least once. I'd like to rebuild
an engine but I'll never do that.)

The danger of ignoring the misfire for an extended period would be
damage to the catalytic converter. If it recurs, don't drive too long
without fixing the problem.

If the bad COP if the front bank, probably very easy to replace.
There is possibly a YouTube on your specific motor detailing how to get
to the rear bank. I don't know if the YouTube link you provided is your
model. You can judge whether you have the skills. I have always reused
the gaskets but it would be good to have a fresh set if the old ones
don't look/feel perfect. The other point that is sometimes overlooked:
the manifold is plastic and you need a torque wrench with a low
setting to make sure that you do not over-tighten when you reassemble.
The plastic manifold can crack or distort if you don't follow an
alternating pattern or if you use excess force. The amount of torque is
surprisingly low.

On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 8:28:00 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

That combination of problems really scared me last night, and I had just
about given in and was going to take it somewhere, until I thought, It's
gonna cost me 1000 dollars or more.

Every time I'm faced with an expensive repair like that, I remind myself
that it's cheaper than a new car.

Even $1000 every single year is cheaper than a new car.

Cindy Hamilton

On 4/4/21 5:26 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 8:28:00 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

That combination of problems really scared me last night, and I had just
about given in and was going to take it somewhere, until I thought, It's
gonna cost me 1000 dollars or more.
Every time I'm faced with an expensive repair like that, I remind myself
that it's cheaper than a new car.

Even $1000 every single year is cheaper than a new car.

Cindy Hamilton


Great advice for a Ford or Toyota, not so much for a Chrysler K-car.

On Sunday, April 4, 2021 at 6:15:37 AM UTC-4, Pinocchio Psaki wrote:
On 4/4/21 5:26 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 8:28:00 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

That combination of problems really scared me last night, and I had just
about given in and was going to take it somewhere, until I thought, It's
gonna cost me 1000 dollars or more.
Every time I'm faced with an expensive repair like that, I remind myself
that it's cheaper than a new car.

Even $1000 every single year is cheaper than a new car.

Cindy Hamilton
Great advice for a Ford or Toyota, not so much for a Chrysler K-car.

Ah. I'm not foolish enough to buy anything from the Big 3. I'm from
Detroit.

My 2004 Toyota Highlander is going strong.

Cindy Hamilton

On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 8:28:00 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 03 Apr 2021 17:28:10 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 15:40:31 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 3 Apr 2021 14:26:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/3/2021 12:37 PM, micky wrote:
I know it's not the same vendor -- Wait, it is the SAME vendor -- so how
is it that on ebay there is one Denso ignition pack for a 2005 3.3L
Toyota engine for $70, and a 6-pack for $158?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-OEM-DE...6/392934898333

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Pack-OEM-...E/233707357463


One says Toyota, the other says Lexus. Could be the same but you pay for
the single versus bulk pack?

BTW, I can't even get at the rear 3 ignition coils without taking out
the intake manifold and lots of little things.

It runs smoothly, as nice as ever afaict. Has plenty of acceleration and
power.

I erased the codes (cyls 1, 2, and random) and I'll wait to see if they
come back. (of course, they will.)

What is the price at a typucal auto parts store?
Chasing the o2 sensor problem and coil problem on the same car???
That combination of problems really scared me last night, and I had just
about given in and was going to take it somewhere, until I thought, It's
gonna cost me 1000 dollars or more.

The P0171 and P0174 started last year and the misfire problem, P0300,
P0301, P0302**, I only learned about yesterday. Last year, for the lean
mixture, I clenaed the MAF sensor with MAF Sensor Cleaner, replaced the
MAF sensor, replaced the PCV valve, inspected the air cleaner (which was
very clean), looked at length for vacuum leaks, inspected that big
plastic pipe from air cleanner to the next boxy thing, and maybe
something else.

**Actually, the Maintenannce dash light went on about 4 months ago, but
I didn't read the codes again at that time. Are the misfires really
going to damage my engine like one webpage said? So far it seems to run
the same.

I didn't check the fuel pump or filter or injectors, but the car had and
has loads of power and acceleration. Its only bad symptom is that it
stumbles a little as I leave a stop sign. But if I handle my foot just
right and don't try to get a jack-rabbit start, I can even avoid that.
Still, it's definitely a problem.

I figured since it has so much power and other-than-from-stopped easy
acceleration, it's not the fuel pump or filter or injectors. ?? And
there is no nipple on this car to connect a fuel pressure gauge.

That left the O2 sensors but I was in idiot mode and thought I should be
suspecting the downstream sensors which are both hard to replace without
a lift or at least ramps on flat ground. I read the meterial again and
IIUC it's the upstream sensors that matter here, and one of those is
easy to change. (The rear one is behind the engine, have to remove the
intake manifold etc. I think. I am scared to even start that.)

OTOH, since it's both banks, maybe there is some common cause but
unrelated to banks. OT3H, since both sensors are original and were 15
years old, maybe they both wore out.
99.999% chance it is neither the coil OR the O2 sensor. You most
likely have a small vacuum leak somewhere. Take it to a real mechanic
When this problem first started, I spend a lot of time looking for a
vacuum leak. I checked every hose and hose connection. They were all
firm and none were brittle. Then I didn't want to spray brake cleaner
like was suggested, so went around with an unlit but open propane torch,
sticking it everywhere I could find and waiting for the idle speed to
increase. It never did.

Just now I read that brake cleaner doesn't leave residue like I thought
it did. Should I start again looking for vacuum leaks with brake
cleaner?

Is there something else to do?

I never used one, but there are fog/smoke generators that you can hook up
that pump smoke into the system and you can see if any comes out. I've
read of people using fog machines that are made for dance floors and such.
Years ago when I looked I think you could find them on Ebay for maybe less
than $100. Then you'd have to make up some plumbing to pipe it in.

It's hard to find vacuum leaks because the hoses go all over the place and
the engine compartment is packed, you can't easily even see them all,
others go into the cabin, to the tranny, etc.

On Sunday, April 4, 2021 at 5:26:21 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 8:28:00 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

That combination of problems really scared me last night, and I had just
about given in and was going to take it somewhere, until I thought, It's
gonna cost me 1000 dollars or more.
Every time I'm faced with an expensive repair like that, I remind myself
that it's cheaper than a new car.

Even $1000 every single year is cheaper than a new car.

Cindy Hamilton

A friend of mine had a Honda CRV, probably had 200K miles on it. It had an
intermittent problem with the codes indicating that the cat converter was
the likely culprit. I helped him get it through inspection once by resetting
the codes and when reset they generally stayed OK for months. He does
mostly highlway, long 600 mile trips to rack up the mileage, so the car was
in overall great shape. I looked up the cost of a new cat for it and it was
maybe $350, plus labor of course. But he kept driving it, then it was about
due for another inspection. So, I told him he should either get the cat replaced
or I could reset it for him again and it would probably remain OK for awhile
again so he could get through inspection. The cat code problem mostly
happened on his long drives, not when he was doing local driving anyway.
And in NJ I think if the total repairs are more than $700, you get an exemption
and don't have to even fix it. But he kept obsessing about this perceived awful
cat problem

Next when he was on his way up to NJ from NC and had been having
trouble starting the car before he left and I think on the way. He stopped by
here and I determined his battery was old and kaput. I recommended that he
not continue the remaining 75 miles because he could get stuck on the Parkway,
where a tow is expensive because they only let certain companies do it.
I convinced him to buy a new battery, so we found a good deal for about $100,
I went and picked it up and put it in for him.

What's he do next? He took it to Honda for an oil change and they sold him a
new FIT and gave him a whopping $1000 trade in for the CRV including the new
battery that was a day old. That car was
probably worth 4 times that. He could have paid $600 or so for a cat replacement
at an non-dealer repair shop and gotten another 100K miles out of it. And the
FIT is a small **** box compared to the CRV.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, April 4, 2021 at 5:26:21 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, April 3, 2021 at 8:28:00 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

That combination of problems really scared me last night, and I had
just
about given in and was going to take it somewhere, until I thought,
It's
gonna cost me 1000 dollars or more.
Every time I'm faced with an expensive repair like that, I remind myself
that it's cheaper than a new car.

Even $1000 every single year is cheaper than a new car.

Cindy Hamilton

A friend of mine had a Honda CRV, probably had 200K miles on it. It had
an
intermittent problem with the codes indicating that the cat converter was
the likely culprit. I helped him get it through inspection once by
resetting
the codes and when reset they generally stayed OK for months. He does
mostly highlway, long 600 mile trips to rack up the mileage, so the car
was
in overall great shape. I looked up the cost of a new cat for it and it
was
maybe $350, plus labor of course. But he kept driving it, then it was
about
due for another inspection. So, I told him he should either get the cat
replaced
or I could reset it for him again and it would probably remain OK for
awhile
again so he could get through inspection. The cat code problem mostly
happened on his long drives, not when he was doing local driving anyway.
And in NJ I think if the total repairs are more than $700, you get an
exemption
and don't have to even fix it. But he kept obsessing about this perceived
awful
cat problem

Next when he was on his way up to NJ from NC and had been having
trouble starting the car before he left and I think on the way. He
stopped by
here and I determined his battery was old and kaput. I recommended that
he
not continue the remaining 75 miles because he could get stuck on the
Parkway,
where a tow is expensive because they only let certain companies do it.
I convinced him to buy a new battery, so we found a good deal for about
$100,
I went and picked it up and put it in for him.

What's he do next? He took it to Honda for an oil change and they sold
him a
new FIT and gave him a whopping $1000 trade in for the CRV including the
new
battery that was a day old. That car was
probably worth 4 times that. He could have paid $600 or so for a cat
replacement
at an non-dealer repair shop and gotten another 100K miles out of it.

And the FIT is a small **** box compared to the CRV.

Bull****.

In article ,
says...

What's he do next? He took it to Honda for an oil change and they sold him a
new FIT and gave him a whopping $1000 trade in for the CRV including the new
battery that was a day old. That car was
probably worth 4 times that. He could have paid $600 or so for a cat replacement
at an non-dealer repair shop and gotten another 100K miles out of it. And the
FIT is a small **** box compared to the CRV.




With 200,000 miles on a car maybe he just wanted a new one. I doubt I
would go with the FIT if I was doing long trips.
A few years back I traded in a Camry that was 10 years old and only had
about 40,000 miles on it. Just wanted a new one and at the time it was
0 % finance . So by leaving the money in the IRA and financing it for 7
years I made a few more thousand. This may be the last car I buy at my
age no more than I drive in a year.

They probably did not even allow him $ 1000 for the trade, just
reworked the numbers to make it look that way.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

What's he do next? He took it to Honda for an oil change and they sold
him a
new FIT and gave him a whopping $1000 trade in for the CRV including the
new
battery that was a day old. That car was
probably worth 4 times that. He could have paid $600 or so for a cat
replacement
at an non-dealer repair shop and gotten another 100K miles out of it.
And the
FIT is a small **** box compared to the CRV.

With 200,000 miles on a car maybe he just wanted a new one.
I doubt I would go with the FIT if I was doing long trips.

I have the Hyundai equivalent of the FIT, a Getz and its
fine for long trips with the only qualification that its not
big enough to be able to take a nap in lying down.

I cant sleep sitting down even with the seat declined.

A few years back I traded in a Camry that was 10 years old
and only had about 40,000 miles on it. Just wanted a new one

I don't operate like that. I am considering changing to the
latest incarnation of the Getz, the i30, but that's to get
a full cruise control. The Getz has no cruise control at all.

and at the time it was 0 % finance . So by leaving the money in the
IRA and financing it for 7 years I made a few more thousand. This
may be the last car I buy at my age no more than I drive in a year.

They probably did not even allow him $ 1000 for the trade,
just reworked the numbers to make it look that way.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 4 Apr 2021 06:48:52 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:



Just now I read that brake cleaner doesn't leave residue like I thought
it did. Should I start again looking for vacuum leaks with brake
cleaner?

Is there something else to do?

I never used one, but there are fog/smoke generators that you can hook up
that pump smoke into the system and you can see if any comes out. I've
read of people using fog machines that are made for dance floors and such.
Years ago when I looked I think you could find them on Ebay for maybe less
than $100. Then you'd have to make up some plumbing to pipe it in.

It's hard to find vacuum leaks because the hoses go all over the place and
the engine compartment is packed, you can't easily even see them all,
others go into the cabin, to the tranny, etc.

I may give a more relevant answer later, but this is relevant to your
last 2 lines.

When my brother graduated medical school he moved to Brooklyn and bought
a new '65 pontiac which came with a 2-year warranty. When he drove, and
after he went to Viet Nam and gave me the car, when I drove too, we
couldn't pull away from a stop without stumbling. Car was only 3 or 4
years old. Finally I just happened to be up on the fender looking down
and 1) I saw the vacuum hose to the distributor was completely missing.
At both ends. From the side, the view of both locations was
obstructed.

After it was replaced, all was fine. I wonder how much dirt got sucked
in that tube over 4 years. I wonder if they left the hose off when they
made the car**, or if the dealer removed it. (It had other problems and
had been to the dealer many times. By the time I got to Brooklyn 7
years after he bought the car, the dealer, Alpine Motors, was out of
business.

**2) Without AC and they had failed to connect the fresh air doors in
the L and R kickpanels to the controls that opened them. They were
always closed.

3) They had mounted the steering wheel upside down so that turn signals
turned off if you turned the wheel 90^*** and then let it go back to 75
or 80^. ***Instead of 270^ like all other cars. When I figured this
out, I wanted to just turn the steering wheel upside down but the way
the handgrips on the wheel were designed, that would have but them
between 3 and 4:30 and between 7:30 and 9. AFAIK, no one holds the
wheel like that, and even though you don't have to hold the wheel at the
designated hand grips, it would look funny. All I had to do was drill
another hole through the steering wheel "hub", a piece of metal an inch
thick, and everything was good again, but how did they make these
mistakes. Did the original assembler put the steering wheel on upside
down because it looked better to him that way, just as it did to me (and
he wouldn't know it would mess up the turn signal)?

4) The car wouldn't start if you left the lights on too long with the
engine not running. He had it into the dealer several times for that.
They said they replaced the battery, the starter, and the alternator two
times each. Not sure about the regulator. Still didn't help. I only
spent a couple short visits with him but once the car wouldn't start for
us right in midtown NYC. After the two year warranty was up, they said,
"[yeah we never fixed it, but] the warranty has expired."

After I got the car I decided the battery had been ruined so I took it
to Sears (very big in Chicago) for a new battery and the mechanic who
would put it in said, Do you want our free 788-part multi-check? and I
said, I really just need a battery. And he said, "it's free". I don't
like to argue so I said Okay. And it took him less than 5 minutes to
find the problem the dealer couldn't find in 2 years. The connection of
the battery cable at the starter motor would get "dirty". In my
experience only when I forgot and left the lights on, even for 2 hours.

He took it apart and cleaned it, but later I found that even with good
clothes on, I could reach under the car, find the cable and rotate it
around the bolt, probably just in one direction, and that was enough to
make the car start.

There must have been a permanent solution, a cable with different kind
of connection at the end?? But although I saw other cables for sale,
none said anything about being different or corroding less or anything,
so iirc I bought a buzzer that buzzed if I left the lights on and that
pretty much solved it. (though once early on it had started then
stalled 10 minutes later just as I was about to get on Lake Shore Drive.
I'm glad it didn't stall on that busy road.)

On 4/4/21 1:28 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

What's he do next? He took it to Honda for an oil change and they sold him a
new FIT and gave him a whopping $1000 trade in for the CRV including the new
battery that was a day old. That car was
probably worth 4 times that. He could have paid $600 or so for a cat replacement
at an non-dealer repair shop and gotten another 100K miles out of it. And the
FIT is a small **** box compared to the CRV.




With 200,000 miles on a car maybe he just wanted a new one. I doubt I
would go with the FIT if I was doing long trips.
A few years back I traded in a Camry that was 10 years old and only had
about 40,000 miles on it. Just wanted a new one and at the time it was
0 % finance . So by leaving the money in the IRA and financing it for 7
years I made a few more thousand. This may be the last car I buy at my
age no more than I drive in a year.

They probably did not even allow him $ 1000 for the trade, just
reworked the numbers to make it look that way.


In the past, I twice replaced a perfectly good car for no real reason
other than I was tired of what I was driving.

My wife noted that I had done the same thing in high school- only with
girlfriends!

--
At the rate we're going, they're going to €œcancel€� shampoo so bald
people won't be offended...

In article , says...

In the past, I twice replaced a perfectly good car for no real reason
other than I was tired of what I was driving.




One reason may be that the newer cars have many safety or nice features.

You can get ones with many cameras on them and some that you can set to
follow at a distance a car in front of you and some that automatically
put on the breaks if it thinks you will be in a collision.

I talked with a salesman that was trying to sell a 3 year old car with
only a few thousand miles on it. It had belonged to the wife of an
exective of a large company. Her husband told her it did not look for
people of their position to drive a car that was more than a couple of
years old.
Thatg was back when one could usually tell a make and year of a car from
a block away. Now they look very similar to each other.

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 09:50:20 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

On 4/4/21 1:28 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

What's he do next? He took it to Honda for an oil change and they sold him a
new FIT and gave him a whopping $1000 trade in for the CRV including the new
battery that was a day old. That car was
probably worth 4 times that. He could have paid $600 or so for a cat replacement
at an non-dealer repair shop and gotten another 100K miles out of it. And the
FIT is a small **** box compared to the CRV.




With 200,000 miles on a car maybe he just wanted a new one. I doubt I
would go with the FIT if I was doing long trips.
A few years back I traded in a Camry that was 10 years old and only had
about 40,000 miles on it. Just wanted a new one and at the time it was
0 % finance . So by leaving the money in the IRA and financing it for 7
years I made a few more thousand. This may be the last car I buy at my
age no more than I drive in a year.

They probably did not even allow him $ 1000 for the trade, just
reworked the numbers to make it look that way.


In the past, I twice replaced a perfectly good car for no real reason
other than I was tired of what I was driving.

My wife noted that I had done the same thing in high school- only with
girlfriends!
Our last car purchase - my wife's car - was a 2014 Kia Sorento to
replace her 2002 or 2003 Taurus which she had driven for about 8
years. She wanted something "more up to date" - The "new" car has more
miles on it than he one we got rid of - - - (we bought the "old" one
10 years old with 53000km on it and she doesn't drive much. Our last
trip out to Alberta put on more miles than the last 3 years - - - and
half the miles we put on were put on in 3 trips)

On 4/5/2021 11:29 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

In the past, I twice replaced a perfectly good car for no real reason
other than I was tired of what I was driving.




One reason may be that the newer cars have many safety or nice features.

You can get ones with many cameras on them and some that you can set to
follow at a distance a car in front of you and some that automatically
put on the breaks if it thinks you will be in a collision.

I talked with a salesman that was trying to sell a 3 year old car with
only a few thousand miles on it. It had belonged to the wife of an
exective of a large company. Her husband told her it did not look for
people of their position to drive a car that was more than a couple of
years old.
Thatg was back when one could usually tell a make and year of a car from
a block away. Now they look very similar to each other.



Salesman for one of my suppliers went on his own. Bought a new car
because he did not thin it approrpriate for a business owner to have an
old Toyota with 340,000 miles.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 5 Apr 2021 09:50:20 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

On 4/4/21 1:28 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

What's he do next? He took it to Honda for an oil change and they sold him a
new FIT and gave him a whopping $1000 trade in for the CRV including the new
battery that was a day old. That car was
probably worth 4 times that. He could have paid $600 or so for a cat replacement
at an non-dealer repair shop and gotten another 100K miles out of it. And the
FIT is a small **** box compared to the CRV.




With 200,000 miles on a car maybe he just wanted a new one. I doubt I
would go with the FIT if I was doing long trips.
A few years back I traded in a Camry that was 10 years old and only had
about 40,000 miles on it. Just wanted a new one and at the time it was
0 % finance . So by leaving the money in the IRA and financing it for 7
years I made a few more thousand. This may be the last car I buy at my
age no more than I drive in a year.

They probably did not even allow him $ 1000 for the trade, just
reworked the numbers to make it look that way.


In the past, I twice replaced a perfectly good car for no real reason
other than I was tired of what I was driving.

My wife noted that I had done the same thing in high school- only with
girlfriends!

I think Amazon has an option, for medicine and cleaning products, and
they give you a discount when you sign up for periodic delivery of the
same product. I have to check if that includes girlfriends.

micky wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Ralph Mowery wrote
wrote

What's he do next? He took it to Honda for an oil change
and they sold him a new FIT and gave him a whopping $1000
trade in for the CRV including the new battery that was a day
old. That car was probably worth 4 times that. He could
have paid $600 or so for a cat replacement at an non-dealer
repair shop and gotten another 100K miles out of it.

And the FIT is a small **** box compared to the CRV.

With 200,000 miles on a car maybe he just wanted a new one.
I doubt I would go with the FIT if I was doing long trips.

I have the Hyundai equivalent of the FIT, a Getz and its
fine for long trips with the only qualification that its not
big enough to be able to take a nap in lying down.

I cant sleep sitting down even with the seat reclined.

It's not easy but I'm working at getting better at it.

I am very unusual in that I never ever drop off when sitting,
even when watching TV in the evening or whatever.

Very handy when driving long distance.

One thing I do is park facing up hill,
so reclining is a lot more horizontal.

Its so flat here that its mostly not available.

I used to stuff something in the space between the seat and the back,
but it's turned out to be easier to learn to sleep on my back, instead
of turning to my side, where the dip at my rump is a big problem.

With the work cars I used to sleep on the back seat, across the car.

The previous car of mine was a VW Golf/Rabbit and before that
a VW Beetle. I carry a spring steel stretcher and sleep on that
outside the car. That works even when its raining with what
we call a swag.
https://www.bcf.com.au/dw/image/v2/B...00&sm=fit&q=90

I have even done it with the car right beside the
main highway with the cars zooming by on the
other side of my car. I can sleep thru anything.

I need to do this when I travel. Even if I have a room rented,
I don't want to have to drive back to it 1, 2, even 3 hours at the
end of every day, and where I've been going there are no cheap
hotels like Motel 6, or even cheaper no-name hotels in the US.
instead they are 100+ dollare a night, and even hostels charge
$65 for a private room. $30 iirc for a dorm room.

I normally use a pop up tent. Lay it out, pin the 4 corners down,
go inside with the pole and its ready to use. Or the swag.

So in my 3 trips, 2017 to 19, I've slept maybe 80 nights in the
car. I can remember most places I've slept and how many times.
I should add them up. It has the other advantage that I wake
up at dawn and I have a long day for sightseeing.

A few years back I traded in a Camry that was 10 years old
and only had about 40,000 miles on it. Just wanted a new one

I don't operate like that. I am considering changing to the
latest incarnation of the Getz, the i30, but that's to get
a full cruise control. The Getz has no cruise control at all.

and at the time it was 0 % finance . So by leaving the money in the
IRA and financing it for 7 years I made a few more thousand. This
may be the last car I buy at my age no more than I drive in a year.

They probably did not even allow him $ 1000 for the trade,
just reworked the numbers to make it look that way.

On 4/5/21 11:29 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

In the past, I twice replaced a perfectly good car for no real reason
other than I was tired of what I was driving.




One reason may be that the newer cars have many safety or nice features.

You can get ones with many cameras on them and some that you can set to
follow at a distance a car in front of you and some that automatically
put on the breaks if it thinks you will be in a collision.

I talked with a salesman that was trying to sell a 3 year old car with
only a few thousand miles on it. It had belonged to the wife of an
exective of a large company. Her husband told her it did not look for
people of their position to drive a car that was more than a couple of
years old.
Thatg was back when one could usually tell a make and year of a car from
a block away. Now they look very similar to each other.



My current ride is a top of the trim line model that came with taller
rims than the lower models. This necessitated lower aspect ratio (45)
tires to maintain steering geometry, suspension and fit in the wheel wells.

I like the car- but with less rubber and air between the rim and the
pavement, it slams over manhole covers and even shallow pot holes.

The car is comfortable, powerful and loaded with all the electronic
safety features- but is also a bit bigger than I like driving these
days. I may just buy something smaller- though without oversized rims!

--
Apparently it's rude to poke someone in the forehead and say €œSkip
Intro€� when they start talking to you

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 18:35:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

On 4/5/21 11:29 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

In the past, I twice replaced a perfectly good car for no real reason
other than I was tired of what I was driving.




One reason may be that the newer cars have many safety or nice features.

You can get ones with many cameras on them and some that you can set to
follow at a distance a car in front of you and some that automatically
put on the breaks if it thinks you will be in a collision.

I talked with a salesman that was trying to sell a 3 year old car with
only a few thousand miles on it. It had belonged to the wife of an
exective of a large company. Her husband told her it did not look for
people of their position to drive a car that was more than a couple of
years old.
Thatg was back when one could usually tell a make and year of a car from
a block away. Now they look very similar to each other.



My current ride is a top of the trim line model that came with taller
rims than the lower models. This necessitated lower aspect ratio (45)
tires to maintain steering geometry, suspension and fit in the wheel wells.

I like the car- but with less rubber and air between the rim and the
pavement, it slams over manhole covers and even shallow pot holes.

The car is comfortable, powerful and loaded with all the electronic
safety features- but is also a bit bigger than I like driving these
days. I may just buy something smaller- though without oversized rims!
Just buy a set of the smallest rims that were available on the car
(used from the wreckers they are pretty reeasonable - you might even
come out ahead with the lower cost of the replacement tires) and keep
enjoying what you have without the harshness on bumps.
Every time youtrade cars it costs you money - and you KNOW what you
have right now - any new used car purchase is a crap-shoot.

On 4/6/2021 1:18 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 18:35:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

On 4/5/21 11:29 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

In the past, I twice replaced a perfectly good car for no real reason
other than I was tired of what I was driving.




One reason may be that the newer cars have many safety or nice features.

You can get ones with many cameras on them and some that you can set to
follow at a distance a car in front of you and some that automatically
put on the breaks if it thinks you will be in a collision.

I talked with a salesman that was trying to sell a 3 year old car with
only a few thousand miles on it. It had belonged to the wife of an
exective of a large company. Her husband told her it did not look for
people of their position to drive a car that was more than a couple of
years old.
Thatg was back when one could usually tell a make and year of a car from
a block away. Now they look very similar to each other.



My current ride is a top of the trim line model that came with taller
rims than the lower models. This necessitated lower aspect ratio (45)
tires to maintain steering geometry, suspension and fit in the wheel wells.

I like the car- but with less rubber and air between the rim and the
pavement, it slams over manhole covers and even shallow pot holes.

The car is comfortable, powerful and loaded with all the electronic
safety features- but is also a bit bigger than I like driving these
days. I may just buy something smaller- though without oversized rims!
Just buy a set of the smallest rims that were available on the car
(used from the wreckers they are pretty reeasonable - you might even
come out ahead with the lower cost of the replacement tires) and keep
enjoying what you have without the harshness on bumps.
Every time youtrade cars it costs you money - and you KNOW what you
have right now - any new used car purchase is a crap-shoot.


I understand that the low profile tires are more prone to go flat and a
hard pothole bump can cause damage to rims which must be replaced.

On 4/6/21 1:18 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 18:35:48 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

On 4/5/21 11:29 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

In the past, I twice replaced a perfectly good car for no real reason
other than I was tired of what I was driving.




One reason may be that the newer cars have many safety or nice features.

You can get ones with many cameras on them and some that you can set to
follow at a distance a car in front of you and some that automatically
put on the breaks if it thinks you will be in a collision.

I talked with a salesman that was trying to sell a 3 year old car with
only a few thousand miles on it. It had belonged to the wife of an
exective of a large company. Her husband told her it did not look for
people of their position to drive a car that was more than a couple of
years old.
Thatg was back when one could usually tell a make and year of a car from
a block away. Now they look very similar to each other.



My current ride is a top of the trim line model that came with taller
rims than the lower models. This necessitated lower aspect ratio (45)
tires to maintain steering geometry, suspension and fit in the wheel wells.

I like the car- but with less rubber and air between the rim and the
pavement, it slams over manhole covers and even shallow pot holes.

The car is comfortable, powerful and loaded with all the electronic
safety features- but is also a bit bigger than I like driving these
days. I may just buy something smaller- though without oversized rims!
Just buy a set of the smallest rims that were available on the car
(used from the wreckers they are pretty reeasonable - you might even
come out ahead with the lower cost of the replacement tires) and keep
enjoying what you have without the harshness on bumps.
Every time youtrade cars it costs you money - and you KNOW what you
have right now - any new used car purchase is a crap-shoot.

That's a good idea; definitely worth looking into!

--
Why is it that the people who want more government control over your
life are the same ones who want you to be disarmed?

On 4/6/2021 1:32 PM, Frank wrote:



My current ride is a top of the trim line model that came with taller
rims than the lower models. This necessitated lower aspect ratio (45)
tires to maintain steering geometry, suspension and fit in the wheel
wells.

I like the car- but with less rubber and air between the rim and the
pavement, it slams over manhole covers and even shallow pot holes.

The car is comfortable, powerful and loaded with all the electronic
safety features- but is also a bit bigger than I like driving these
days. I may just buy something smaller- though without oversized rims!
Â* Just buy a set of the smallest rims that were available on the car
(used from the wreckers they are pretty reeasonable - you might even
come out ahead with the lower cost of the replacement tires) and keep
enjoying what you have without the harshness on bumps.
Every time youtrade cars it costs you money - and you KNOW what you
have right now - any new used car purchase is a crap-shoot.


I understand that the low profile tires are more prone to go flat and a
hard pothole bump can cause damage to rims which must be replaced.

Rims can often be repaired. I had one fixed for $125. New would be
about $600.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 4/6/2021 1:32 PM, Frank wrote:



My current ride is a top of the trim line model that came with taller
rims than the lower models. This necessitated lower aspect ratio (45)
tires to maintain steering geometry, suspension and fit in the wheel
wells.

I like the car- but with less rubber and air between the rim and the
pavement, it slams over manhole covers and even shallow pot holes.

The car is comfortable, powerful and loaded with all the electronic
safety features- but is also a bit bigger than I like driving these
days. I may just buy something smaller- though without oversized rims!
Just buy a set of the smallest rims that were available on the car
(used from the wreckers they are pretty reeasonable - you might even
come out ahead with the lower cost of the replacement tires) and keep
enjoying what you have without the harshness on bumps.
Every time youtrade cars it costs you money - and you KNOW what you
have right now - any new used car purchase is a crap-shoot.


I understand that the low profile tires are more prone to go flat and a
hard pothole bump can cause damage to rims which must be replaced.

Rims can often be repaired. I had one fixed for $125. New would be about
$600.

Much cheaper than that at a wreckers and easy to check that its fine.

On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 05:14:31 +1000, %%, better known as cantankerous trolling
senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile pest's latest troll**** unread


--
Xeno to senile Rodent:
"You're a sad old man Rod, truly sad."
MID:

On 4/6/2021 3:14 PM, %% wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 4/6/2021 1:32 PM, Frank wrote:



My current ride is a top of the trim line model that came with taller
rims than the lower models. This necessitated lower aspect ratio (45)
tires to maintain steering geometry, suspension and fit in the
wheel wells.

I like the car- but with less rubber and air between the rim and the
pavement, it slams over manhole covers and even shallow pot holes.

The car is comfortable, powerful and loaded with all the electronic
safety features- but is also a bit bigger than I like driving these
days. I may just buy something smaller- though without oversized rims!
Â* Just buy a set of the smallest rims that were available on the car
(used from the wreckers they are pretty reeasonable - you might even
come out ahead with the lower cost of the replacement tires) and keep
enjoying what you have without the harshness on bumps.
Every time youtrade cars it costs you money - and you KNOW what you
have right now - any new used car purchase is a crap-shoot.


I understand that the low profile tires are more prone to go flat and
a hard pothole bump can cause damage to rims which must be replaced.

Rims can often be repaired.Â* I had one fixed for $125.Â* New would be
about $600.

Much cheaper than that at a wreckers and easy to check that its fine.

On a 1 year old car with new style wheels you won't find them that
easily. One a 10 year old Ford Fusion, sure.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 4/6/2021 3:14 PM, %% wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 4/6/2021 1:32 PM, Frank wrote:



My current ride is a top of the trim line model that came with taller
rims than the lower models. This necessitated lower aspect ratio (45)
tires to maintain steering geometry, suspension and fit in the wheel
wells.

I like the car- but with less rubber and air between the rim and the
pavement, it slams over manhole covers and even shallow pot holes.

The car is comfortable, powerful and loaded with all the electronic
safety features- but is also a bit bigger than I like driving these
days. I may just buy something smaller- though without oversized
rims!
Just buy a set of the smallest rims that were available on the car
(used from the wreckers they are pretty reeasonable - you might even
come out ahead with the lower cost of the replacement tires) and keep
enjoying what you have without the harshness on bumps.
Every time youtrade cars it costs you money - and you KNOW what you
have right now - any new used car purchase is a crap-shoot.


I understand that the low profile tires are more prone to go flat and a
hard pothole bump can cause damage to rims which must be replaced.

Rims can often be repaired. I had one fixed for $125. New would be
about $600.

Much cheaper than that at a wreckers and easy to check that its fine.

On a 1 year old car with new style wheels you won't find them that easily.

Quite easy now that most ship countrywide and do ebay etc.

One a 10 year old Ford Fusion, sure.

On 4/6/2021 4:29 PM, %% wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 4/6/2021 3:14 PM, %% wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 4/6/2021 1:32 PM, Frank wrote:



My current ride is a top of the trim line model that came with
taller
rims than the lower models. This necessitated lower aspect ratio
(45)
tires to maintain steering geometry, suspension and fit in the
wheel wells.

I like the car- but with less rubber and air between the rim and the
pavement, it slams over manhole covers and even shallow pot holes.

The car is comfortable, powerful and loaded with all the electronic
safety features- but is also a bit bigger than I like driving these
days. I may just buy something smaller- though without oversized
rims!
Â* Just buy a set of the smallest rims that were available on the car
(used from the wreckers they are pretty reeasonable - you might even
come out ahead with the lower cost of the replacement tires) and keep
enjoying what you have without the harshness on bumps.
Every time youtrade cars it costs you money - and you KNOW what you
have right now - any new used car purchase is a crap-shoot.


I understand that the low profile tires are more prone to go flat
and a hard pothole bump can cause damage to rims which must be
replaced.

Rims can often be repaired.Â* I had one fixed for $125.Â* New would be
about $600.

Much cheaper than that at a wreckers and easy to check that its fine.

On a 1 year old car with new style wheels you won't find them that
easily.

Quite easy now that most ship countrywide and do ebay etc.

One a 10 year old Ford Fusion, sure.


Like I said, GV80 22" wheels are about $600 on eBay. The only ones in a
scrap yard will be from Tiger Wood's crash.

https://tinyurl.com/894xbzvk

On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 06:29:43 +1000, %%, better known as cantankerous trolling
senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:



On a 1 year old car with new style wheels you won't find them that easily.

Quite easy now that most ship countrywide and do ebay etc.

In auto-contradicting mode again, senile cretin?

--
Xeno to senile Rodent:
"You're a sad old man Rod, truly sad."
MID:

On 4/6/2021 3:14 PM, %% wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 4/6/2021 1:32 PM, Frank wrote:



My current ride is a top of the trim line model that came with taller
rims than the lower models. This necessitated lower aspect ratio (45)
tires to maintain steering geometry, suspension and fit in the
wheel wells.

I like the car- but with less rubber and air between the rim and the
pavement, it slams over manhole covers and even shallow pot holes.

The car is comfortable, powerful and loaded with all the electronic
safety features- but is also a bit bigger than I like driving these
days. I may just buy something smaller- though without oversized rims!
Â* Just buy a set of the smallest rims that were available on the car
(used from the wreckers they are pretty reeasonable - you might even
come out ahead with the lower cost of the replacement tires) and keep
enjoying what you have without the harshness on bumps.
Every time youtrade cars it costs you money - and you KNOW what you
have right now - any new used car purchase is a crap-shoot.


I understand that the low profile tires are more prone to go flat and
a hard pothole bump can cause damage to rims which must be replaced.

Rims can often be repaired.Â* I had one fixed for $125.Â* New would be
about $600.

Much cheaper than that at a wreckers and easy to check that its fine.

I hit something on the road last year and got a blowout and rim had a
dent. Fortunately it was cosmetic but a new rim would have been $200.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 4/6/2021 4:29 PM, %% wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 4/6/2021 3:14 PM, %% wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 4/6/2021 1:32 PM, Frank wrote:



My current ride is a top of the trim line model that came with
taller
rims than the lower models. This necessitated lower aspect ratio
(45)
tires to maintain steering geometry, suspension and fit in the
wheel wells.

I like the car- but with less rubber and air between the rim and
the
pavement, it slams over manhole covers and even shallow pot holes.

The car is comfortable, powerful and loaded with all the electronic
safety features- but is also a bit bigger than I like driving these
days. I may just buy something smaller- though without oversized
rims!
Just buy a set of the smallest rims that were available on the car
(used from the wreckers they are pretty reeasonable - you might even
come out ahead with the lower cost of the replacement tires) and
keep
enjoying what you have without the harshness on bumps.
Every time youtrade cars it costs you money - and you KNOW what you
have right now - any new used car purchase is a crap-shoot.


I understand that the low profile tires are more prone to go flat and
a hard pothole bump can cause damage to rims which must be replaced.

Rims can often be repaired. I had one fixed for $125. New would be
about $600.

Much cheaper than that at a wreckers and easy to check that its fine.

On a 1 year old car with new style wheels you won't find them that
easily.

Quite easy now that most ship countrywide and do ebay etc.

One a 10 year old Ford Fusion, sure.


Like I said, GV80 22" wheels are about $600 on eBay.

Not used one from a wrecker on ebay.

The only ones in a scrap yard will be from Tiger Wood's crash.

More mindless bull****.

https://tinyurl.com/894xbzvk