On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:32:17 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 4:24:11 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:


"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.
You are comparing
apples to oranges. You cannot extrapolate from the
death rate of those who have so far had the virus to the
entire population, the majority of which have not contracted
the virus. So your 99.7% number is meaningless, wrong and dangerous.

+1

AFAIK, the 99.7% number is BS to begin with. Over 2% of those diagnosed with Covid
have died. There are undiagnosed cases that will bring that down, but I think
his 0.3% number is highly suspect and probably came from the usual place.

Yeah that right wing nut job web site WebMd.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-recovery-overview#1

Coronavirus Recovery Rates

Scientists and researchers are constantly tracking infections and
recoveries. But they have data only on confirmed cases, so they cant
count people who dont get COVID-19 tests. Experts also dont have
information about the outcome of every infection. However, early
estimates predict that the overall COVID-19 recovery rate is between
97% and 99.75%

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:51:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:53:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe

Cite for us the drugs that "they" say are 100% safe. Why must that be the
standard in the midst of a pandemic, with 550K dead so far, in just one year?


Fauci seems to be the one shooting for 100% safe. Some of us are
willing to take a calculated risk.
I said before, your chance of being killed in your car is higher
driving to a restaurant than it is from covid you might get there.

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 06:06:54 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 12:24:19 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message

We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the
restaurant is more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
BULL****.

What are the annual deaths from all auto accidents in the US, 40K?
We have 500K dead from Covid in one year, we're adding to that at the
rate of 1K+ per day and Covid is now increasing again in 13 states.

Look at who died and lets reframe the question.
95% of the covid deaths involved people, mostly old people with
serious co morbidities. A good percentage of them were in nursing
homes, not out on the road.
If you are a reasonably healthy person and you drive to a restaurant
that is using any decent health and safety protocol, which is more
dangerous?

I also notice that some of the states with the worst resurgence of
cases are still locked down. Michigan is a good start on that but New
Jersey is running pretty tight too. Hawaii is even harder to explain.
The worst states reported tonight on NBC were Maine, New Hampshire,
New Jersey, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota and Idaho.


I do expect we might see more cases here but with so many people from
those hot spots coming here it is not surprising.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 23:22:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:52 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci
as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.

I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?
At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?
We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?


Every time Fauci tried to explain about the variants Paul cut him off.
He asked questions but did not want to hear answers, he wanted to make
his own statement.

https://tinyurl.com/336xnms7

Paul comes across as an arrogant politician that wants to show how smart
he is.

Paul was asking questions about studies that went against Fauci's agenda.

Wrong, as always. He was mindlessly rabitting on about
what is irrelevant to the points that Fauci was making.

Fauci was not responding to the questions asked.

Another bare faced lie. He was in fact pointing
out that the questions that Paul was endlessly
rabitting on about are irrelevant.

He just wanted to conjecture about variants

Another bare faced lie. He was in fact rubbing Paul's stupid
nose in the fact that the more virulent variants made Paul's
stupid question that he kept repeating irrelevant.

that have not really been studied.

Another bare faced lie.

"I don't know" would be a better answer

In fact he said we don't know, repeatedly.

than simply expanding on worse case scenarios
without actually saying "the vaccine might be
worthless on these strains".

Its very unlikely indeed that the vaccines are
worthless against the new more virulent variants.

That is what he implied tho.

Another bare faced lie. In fact he said that that is
why we need to keep wearing masks until its clear
how effective the vaccines are against the new more
virulent variants. And he said that very clearly indeed.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 02:12:03 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:54:19 -0400,
wrote:


If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to kill some of my family
and friends?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.


You missed the point Fauci and his gang said. The vaccine is not
proven to reduce transmission so you are not protecting others.

You have a pretty obvious mistake here. All you can say is, "The vaccine
is not proven to reduce transmission so IT IS NOT PROVEN THAT you are
protecting others." I don't have to explain why this sentence is
correct, right?


Read that in the context of the thread.

More mindless bull****.

Further, there is quite a bit of evidence from israel
that Pfizer does reduce transmission, and Moderna
is basically the same as Pfizer, so that's another mistake.

Tell Fauci. He didn't get that memo.

Another bare faced lie and irrelevant to Fauci's point
that we dont yet know how effective those vaccines
are against the new more virulent variants because
Israel hasnt see a lot of those yet.

Cindy just said this about it protecting you.

"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.

Scott is right. If you're comparing 94.1, 95, and 99.7, you shouldn't
be. They represent two different things that are independent of each
other.

OK here is another number
"Scientists and researchers are constantly tracking infections and
recoveries. But they have data only on confirmed cases, so they cant
count people who dont get COVID-19 tests. Experts also dont have
information about the outcome of every infection. However, early
estimates predict that the overall COVID-19 recovery rate is between
97% and 99.75%."

But the number of deaths due to the virus
alone are nothing like that last number so
its obviously nothing like the recovery rate.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-recovery-overview#1

I am doing the Pfizer Sunday but mostly because it was free and easy.
I am not convinced it is going to improve my life much if I still need
to wear a mask and avoid seeing people according to the government.

That's the thing so many people don't appreciate. You're not sick now
and if you don't get sick in the next 2 years, you probably won't know
-- I don't know how you could know -- if it's because you didn't meet
anyone with Corona, you did but you wouldn't have caught it from him
anyhow, or you would have caught it but the vaccine saved you.

I have been far from a hermit. I am out running around pretty
much like normal for the last year, in an unlocked down state

Yes, you actually are that stupid. And the reason you didnt get it
is because you didnt do much of the most high risk activity like
associating with lots of people who werent your wife indoors.

and if I got it, I was asymptomatic. No I
am not running scared like most of you.

None of us are running scared. Some of us are taking sensible precautions.

A few fools like Muggles and you are taking no precautions.

I am getting the vaccine because it was easy at CVS, just like I
said I would do months ago when the vaccine was announced.
I was not willing to get in Black Friday lines or be "caller # 47" in
some call in contest.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:32:17 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 4:24:11 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:


"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.
You are comparing
apples to oranges. You cannot extrapolate from the
death rate of those who have so far had the virus to the
entire population, the majority of which have not contracted
the virus. So your 99.7% number is meaningless, wrong and dangerous.

+1

AFAIK, the 99.7% number is BS to begin with. Over 2% of those diagnosed
with Covid
have died. There are undiagnosed cases that will bring that down, but I
think
his 0.3% number is highly suspect and probably came from the usual place.

Yeah that right wing nut job web site WebMd.

That doesnt say that the 99.7% rate is the right
one you pathetic excuse for a bull**** artist.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-recovery-overview#1

Coronavirus Recovery Rates

Scientists and researchers are constantly tracking infections and
recoveries. But they have data only on confirmed cases, so they cant
count people who dont get COVID-19 tests. Experts also dont have
information about the outcome of every infection. However, early
estimates predict that the overall COVID-19 recovery rate is between
97% and 99.75%

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:51:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:53:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe

Cite for us the drugs that "they" say are 100% safe. Why must that be
the
standard in the midst of a pandemic, with 550K dead so far, in just one
year?

Fauci seems to be the one shooting for 100% safe.

More of your bare faced lies. He has never done anything of the sort.

Some of us are willing to take a calculated risk.

Nothing calculated about the risk fools like you and muggles take.

I said before, your chance of being killed in your car is higher
driving to a restaurant than it is from covid you might get there.

Another bare faced lie. The risk of being killed by this virus is
in fact TEN times higher and you also at much more risk of
getting very serious and unpleasant disease and recovering
with an even higher risk of long covid.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 06:06:54 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 12:24:19 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message

We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the
restaurant is more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
BULL****.

What are the annual deaths from all auto accidents in the US, 40K?
We have 500K dead from Covid in one year, we're adding to that at the
rate of 1K+ per day and Covid is now increasing again in 13 states.

Look at who died and lets reframe the question.

No thanks.

95% of the covid deaths involved people, mostly old people

Yes.

with serious co morbidities.

Another bare faced lie. In fact its JUST co morbiditys
that most old people have, not serious co morbiditys.

A good percentage of them were in
nursing homes, not out on the road.

But plenty of them arent in fact in nursing homes.
The reason so many die in nursing homes is because
this virus spreads like wildfire inside any building
with lots of people in it all the time.

If you are a reasonably healthy person and you drive
to a restaurant that is using any decent health and
safety protocol, which is more dangerous?

The virus. And its not just death that matters either.

I also notice that some of the states with the
worst resurgence of cases are still locked down.

They are still locked down BECAUSE they
have the worst emergence of cases, ****wit.

Michigan is a good start on that but New Jersey is
running pretty tight too. Hawaii is even harder to explain.

Nope, how the virus spreads is very dependant on lifestyle.

The worst states reported tonight on NBC were Maine, New
Hampshire, New Jersey, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota and Idaho.

I do expect we might see more cases here but with so many
people from those hot spots coming here it is not surprising.

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 13:54:11 -0400, Oliver George
wrote:

https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/


Here are 12 important questions and answers before considering getting vaccinated:


Q: If I get vaccinated can I stop wearing a mask(s)?

Government: NO
Eventually yes

Q: If I get vaccinated will the restaurants, bars, schools, fitness clubs, hair salons, etc. reopen and will people be able to get back to work like
normal?

Government: NO
Enentually


Q: If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?

Government: Maybe. We don’t know exactly, but probably not.
Actually you will be "resistant" - not 100% protected - but IF you get
it it will not be as serious


Q: If I get vaccinated, at least I won’t be contagious to others – right?

Government: NO. the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission.
Acdtually it reduces the multiplication of the virus - it will not
PREVENT transmission but it will significantly reduce it


Q: If I get vaccinated, how long will the vaccine last?

Government: No one knows. All Covid vaccines are still in the experimental stage.

It will LIKELY be several years - but you may require boosters every
so often - but it MAY be lifelong. That is the hope -

Q: If I get vaccinated, can I stop social distancing?

Government: NO
Eventually we will ALL be able - but the more quickly everyone is
vaccinated the quicker that "eventually" will be - on all counts.


Q: If my parents, grandparents and myself all get vaccinated can we hug each other again?

Government: NO

Forget the government - what foes SCIENCE say? By getting the
majority vaccinated as soon as possible the virus will be knocked back
to the point we WILL be able to get back to "normal" - eventually. You
are likely not old enough to have lived through the Polio "pandemic"
of the late 40's and fifties. It was ONLY because of Vaccinations that
we are not still "socially distancing" to prevent Polio. Same with
Tuberculosis and smallpox. TB vaccine and smallpox vaccine did not
TOTALLY stop transmission or ive TOTAL immunity - but by reducing the
efficiency of spread, and reducing the chance of catching it it
VIRTUALLY eliminated both Smallpox, TB and Polio


Q: So what’s the benefit of getting vaccinated?

Government: Hoping that the virus won’t kill you.


Q: Are you sure the vaccine won’t injure or kill me?

Government: NO


Q: If statistically the virus won’t kill me (99.7% survival rate), why should I get vaccinated?

Government: To protect others.


Q: So if I get vaccinated, I can protect 100% of people I come in contact with?

Government: NO


Q: If I experience a severe adverse reaction, long-term effects (still unknown) or die from the vaccine, will I (or my family) be compensated from
the vaccine manufacturer or the Government?

Government: NO – the government and vaccine manufacturers have zero liability regarding this experimental drug


https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/

Infowars is at war with information and the truth.

With the Astro Zenica virus even IF the .000001% or whatever that got
blood clots WERE from the vaccine, and only minority of unvaccinated
actually get infected, the danger of a blood clot from Covid is still
SIGNIFICANTLY higher than getting it from the vaccine.

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 23:22:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:52 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.

I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?
At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?
We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?


Every time Fauci tried to explain about the variants Paul cut him off.
He asked questions but did not want to hear answers, he wanted to make
his own statement.

https://tinyurl.com/336xnms7

Paul comes across as an arrogant politician that wants to show how smart
he is.
And all he does is show how ignorant he is

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:28:40 -0400, jimmy
wrote:

On 3/19/21 2:53 PM, micky wrote:
Here's a few more important questiosn they didn't include:

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to get sick?

Yes.


If I wear two masks, do I still need the FonyFauci-19 vaccine?
If you wear your necktie too tight you won't need the vaccine OR
catch the virus - but you'll still be dead - - -

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 20:59:01 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 8:51 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 3/19/2021 11:51 AM, wrote:
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 1:54:17 PM UTC-4, Oliver George wrote:
https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/


And you still cannot differentiate a credible source from pure crap.

Here are 12 important questions and answers before considering
getting vaccinated:


Q: If I get vaccinated can I stop wearing a mask(s)?

Government: NO

Fine.* Wearing a mask is not onerous.

Q: If I get vaccinated will the restaurants, bars, schools, fitness
clubs, hair salons, etc. reopen and will people be able to get back
to work like
normal?

Government: NO

I've been working unvaccinated all year.* I'll be happy for everybody
at my office to be vacinnated.

Q: If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?

Government: Maybe. We don’t know exactly, but probably not.

That's wrong.* The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%.

Q: If I get vaccinated, at least I won’t be contagious to others –
right?

Government: NO. the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission.

It reduces transmission.

Q: If I get vaccinated, how long will the vaccine last?

Government: No one knows. All Covid vaccines are still in the
experimental stage.

Which is true of every new vaccine.

Q: If I get vaccinated, can I stop social distancing?

Government: NO

Who cares?* I don't want to get close to anybody but my husband.

Q: If my parents, grandparents and myself all get vaccinated can we
hug each other again?

Government: NO

Another big slug of indifference.
Q: So what’s the benefit of getting vaccinated?

Government: Hoping that the virus won’t kill you.

So if you contract COVID-19, it won't be as severe, and you won't
be as infectious.

Q: Are you sure the vaccine won’t injure or kill me?

Government: NO

Any vaccine has that possibility.* Yet we all got the smallpox vaccine
and others.

Q: If statistically the virus won’t kill me (99.7% survival rate),
why should I get vaccinated?

Government: To protect others.


Q: So if I get vaccinated, I can protect 100% of people I come in
contact with?

Government: NO

Nothing is 100%.

Q: If I experience a severe adverse reaction, long-term effects
(still unknown) or die from the vaccine, will I (or my family) be
compensated from
the vaccine manufacturer or the Government?

Government: NO – the government and vaccine manufacturers have zero
liability regarding this experimental drug

Just like any other vaccine administered to millions of people
every single year.

Cindy Hamilton



Actually, they are all close to 100% effective on avoiding
hospitalization or death.

You know, I think not sure, that sometimes they say hospitalization, but
other times they just say ICU.


Yes, an important consideration. People have been in the hospital and
on ventilators for long periods so just eliminating that is a big factor.

Guy on the radio today, 35 years old, in good health before this I
think, spent 6 months in the hospital with covid, and finally got a
double lung transplant. Now he's starting to feel much better.

On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 12:49:08 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

senile cretin's bare-faced trolling flushed again

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 13:02:16 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On 3/20/21 11:42 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 23:22:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:52 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:

If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).

Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?
At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?
We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?

Every time Fauci tried to explain about the variants Paul cut him off.
He asked questions but did not want to hear answers, he wanted to make
his own statement.

https://tinyurl.com/336xnms7

Paul comes across as an arrogant politician that wants to show how smart
he is.
And all he does is show how ignorant he is


Rand Paul is just following the science.

If a snowflake can't handle the truth, they should "circle back" to their safe space until the "crisis" is over.

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 1:11:38 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 5:23:15 AM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:53:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci
as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?
Nothing is 100% safe. My last tetanus booster was not 100% safe.
At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?
We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?
If you are vaccinated, the chance of serious illness or death is much
reduced. It's a calculated risk.

I get my first dose of Moderna today.
I had my second M ten days ago. First shot I had a very sore arm for two
days.
Second one, I was expecting it to be worse. Instead I had a minor sore
arm for
one day. A friend who's 76 got his, he didn't even have a sore arm.
Because his immune system isnt as effective as yours. Thats what produces
the sore arm.

That's wrong too, stupid. Vaccine scientists have said that there is no correlation
between the severity of any reaction and the protection that results.

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 4:01:16 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 12:39:57 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 3:07:37 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 1:54:17 PM UTC-4, Oliver George wrote:
https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/

And you still cannot differentiate a credible source from pure crap.

Here are 12 important questions and answers before considering
getting
vaccinated:


Q: If I get vaccinated can I stop wearing a mask(s)?

Government: NO

Fine. Wearing a mask is not onerous.

Q: If I get vaccinated will the restaurants, bars, schools, fitness
clubs, hair salons, etc. reopen and will people be able to get back
to
work like
normal?

Government: NO

I've been working unvaccinated all year. I'll be happy for everybody
at my office to be vacinnated.

Q: If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?

Government: Maybe. We dont know exactly, but probably not.

That's wrong. The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer,
95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%.

Those are the numbers for avoiding serious
disease, not for getting infected.

That's wrong.
Nope, thats what the Phase 3 trials measured and thats
where those numbers came from. They havent measure
the effectiveness of preventing infection by the virus yet,
that measurement is being done now and we dont have
the numbers yet.
The effectiveness was measured by people being diagnosed
as having Covid, not for having serious disease.
Wrong, as always.

Just like always, just like Trump and Fretwell. Get
it wrong and then just keep doubling down on it.
We'll see...
I read the Pfizer trial document that was submitted to FDA for approval..
But clearly didnt understand it or even what a Phase 3 trial is about.
The effectiveness number was not based on "serious disease".
It was measured on how many of the people who
were vaccinated wound up DIAGNOSED with Covid,
regardless of the severity, compared to the control group.
Wrong, as always and that document didnt even say that.

It isnt even possible to diagnose who got covid because
the whole point of a vaccine is to get the body to produce
lots of antibodys so you cant even measure if the individual
has got covid when there are no symptoms.

That's obviously wrong too, stupid. It's like saying we can't diagnose
someone having Measles either, if they've been vaccinated. Following
that logic, it would be impossible to know if any vaccine is effective,
because we can't tell who has it and who does not. But we can because
we have DNA based tests that test for the presence of the actual virus,
not antibodies, stupid.



It was ~95% effective in reducing the number diagnosed with Covid.
Wrong, as always.

No, that's exactly what you're own reference, wiki says, stupid.



Further, other studies, eg Israel have confirmed that.
But they arent the ones who produced that 95% number.

They confirmed it stupid and it's the reduction in Covid diagnosis in
the people vaccinated versus those that were not. It's not the
reduction in those with "serious cases", stupid.



And even then, the Israeli data certainly suggest that the
Pfizer vaccine is effective at reducing transmission, but it isnt
possible to put a percentage on how effectively it does that.

Just like usual, instead of just admitting you were wrong, now you're
babbling about something else, trying to divert.



It is possible to put a number on the percentage who get severe disease.
And if the metric is "serious Covid", then the effectiveness is even
higher.
Wrong, as always.

All the vaccine scientists and medical pros say otherwise, stupid.



If the test subjects came down with Covid symptoms
they were examined by doctors and tested for Covid.
Pity about those who never had any symptoms.

Irrelevant to what you got wrong, stupid.


They did not have to present with "serious disease"
to be counted, only symptomatic Covid.
Pity about those who never had any symptoms.
Wrong, as always. That may well be what your
media has told you, but its just plain wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccine#Efficacy

Thanks for confirming that you don't know WTF you're talking about.
We'll see...

We just did see, even your own reference says it.



From your own reference:

"The effectiveness of a new vaccine is defined by its efficacy
during clinical trials.[140] The efficacy is the risk of getting the
disease by vaccinated participants in the trial compared with
the risk of getting the disease by unvaccinated participants.
Thats a bleeding chunk shorthand from the entire section.
In efficacy calculations, symptomatic COVID-19 is generally
defined as having both a positive PCR test and at least one
or two of a defined list of COVID-19 symptoms, although
exact specifications varying between trials. "
Pity about those who have no symptoms. Those are clearly infected.

Irrelevant to the fact that the 95% efficacy was measured as the
reduction in people diagnosed with Covid compared to the placebo
group, not the reduction is serious disease which is what you claimed.




Exactly what I said.

Wrong, as always.
It doesn't say what you said, which is that
it's measured by reduction in "serious cases".
I said serious disease, not serious cases.
Further, if you look at the table, it says for the Moderna vaccine,
if the metric is "serious disease", then the efficacy is close to 100%.
But it doesnt say that the risk of infection is reduced by any percentage.

And you deleted the lancet article because it
blows your stupid claim right out of the water.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

I didn't bother with the second of your references, because the first clearly
said you're wrong, it didn't say what you claimed, that the vaccine efficacy is
measure by reduction is severe cases. It says exactly what I said, that it's
a measure of reduction of Covid infections diagnosed PERIOD. OK, so now
I go look at the Lancet and what does it say? Exactly the same thing, that
it's measured as reduction in SYMPTOMATIC cases, not your "severe cases".

"It is imperative to dispel any ambiguity about how vaccine efficacy shown in trials translates into protecting individuals and populations. The mRNA-based Pfizer1
, 2
and Moderna3
vaccines were shown to have 94€“95% efficacy in preventing symptomatic COVID-19, calculated as 100€ˆÃ—€ˆ(1 minus the attack rate with vaccine divided by the attack rate with placebo). It means that in a population such as the one enrolled in the trials, with a cumulated COVID-19 attack rate over a period of 3 months of about 1% without a vaccine, we would expect roughly 0·05% of vaccinated people would get diseased. "

Feel better now? Continue to now lie and double down on stupid, instead of
admitting you were wrong. Just like Trump.

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 02:12:03 -0400, micky
wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:54:19 -0400,
wrote:


If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to kill some of my family
and friends?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.


You missed the point Fauci and his gang said. The vaccine is not
proven to reduce transmission so you are not protecting others.

You have a pretty obvious mistake here. All you can say is, "The vaccine
is not proven to reduce transmission so IT IS NOT PROVEN THAT you are
protecting others." I don't have to explain why this sentence is
correct, right?

Read that in the context of the thread.

We did and what you've been posting is still wrong, very wrong. Micky is right.


Further, there is quite a bit of evidence from israel that Pfizer does
reduce transmission, and Moderna is basically the same as Pfizer, so
that's another mistake.

Tell Fauci. He didn't get that memo.

I didn't see the relevant exchange. But given your track record with 1+1 = 7
I can guess what could have happened. And Fauci is trying to guide a country,
he's not going to rush to change national policy based on one study.
Especially when for most purposes, it doesn't matter right now. You expect
Fauci to say, well, if you've been vaccinated, based on what we see now
from the Israel study, you don't need to wear a mask. It doesn't take much
thought to figure out what would happen then. There are already 40% of
the population that wouldn't have been wearing masks from the beginning,
regardless of vaccines. They are Covid deniers. So if Fauci gave the green
light, Walmart and similar would be swamped with morons showing up
wearing no masks, claiming they have been vaccinated and demanding to
be let in. And Fauci, like the rest of the sane folks, know it's just a simple
mask.

It's really something. Trump for months spewed one false statement, one lie
after another about Covid. He turned to govt officials and asked them to start
investigating cleansing people's lungs with bleach. He held death rallies, no
masks, no social distancing. Not a peep about any of that. But Fauci, your
all over him with criticism, like white on rice.






Cindy just said this about it protecting you.

"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.

Scott is right. If you're comparing 94.1, 95, and 99.7, you shouldn't
be. They represent two different things that are independent of each
other.

OK here is another number
"Scientists and researchers are constantly tracking infections and
recoveries. But they have data only on confirmed cases, so they cant
count people who dont get COVID-19 tests. Experts also dont have
information about the outcome of every infection. However, early
estimates predict that the overall COVID-19 recovery rate is between
97% and 99.75%."
https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-recovery-overview#1

Funny, you told us yesterday that the Covid death rate was just 0.3%
Now apparently it's 0.25% to as high as 3%.




I am doing the Pfizer Sunday but mostly because it was free and easy.
I am not convinced it is going to improve my life much if I still need
to wear a mask and avoid seeing people according to the government.

That's the thing so many people don't appreciate. You're not sick now
and if you don't get sick in the next 2 years, you probably won't know
-- I don't know how you could know -- if it's because you didn't meet
anyone with Corona, you did but you wouldn't have caught it from him
anyhow, or you would have caught it but the vaccine saved you.
I have been far from a hermit. I am out running around pretty much
like normal for the last year, in an unlocked down state and if I got
it, I was asymptomatic. No I am not running scared like most of you. I
am getting the vaccine because it was easy at CVS, just like I said I
would do months ago when the vaccine was announced.
I was not willing to get in Black Friday lines or be "caller # 47" in
some call in contest.

Based on all that you've posted I really don't understand why you're getting the vaccine.

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:20:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:32:17 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 4:24:11 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:


"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.
You are comparing
apples to oranges. You cannot extrapolate from the
death rate of those who have so far had the virus to the
entire population, the majority of which have not contracted
the virus. So your 99.7% number is meaningless, wrong and dangerous.

+1

AFAIK, the 99.7% number is BS to begin with. Over 2% of those diagnosed with Covid
have died. There are undiagnosed cases that will bring that down, but I think
his 0.3% number is highly suspect and probably came from the usual place..
Yeah that right wing nut job web site WebMd.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-recovery-overview#1

Coronavirus Recovery Rates
Scientists and researchers are constantly tracking infections and
recoveries. But they have data only on confirmed cases, so they cant
count people who dont get COVID-19 tests. Experts also dont have
information about the outcome of every infection. However, early
estimates predict that the overall COVID-19 recovery rate is between
97% and 99.75%


At least you're consistent. You just take a part of what someone states, then
twist it into whatever you would like it to have been. The classic example is
experts and officials have said repeatedly that they don't know if the vaccines
prevent transmission *yet*, but that based on other vaccines and science, they
*believe* that they will prevent transmission. You take that and turn it into
asking what good is the vaccine, when they say it won't prevent transmission.

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:23:35 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:51:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:53:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe

Cite for us the drugs that "they" say are 100% safe. Why must that be the
standard in the midst of a pandemic, with 550K dead so far, in just one year?


Fauci seems to be the one shooting for 100% safe.

Failed attempt at diversion to the wilderness.

Some of us are
willing to take a calculated risk.
I said before, your chance of being killed in your car is higher
driving to a restaurant than it is from covid you might get there.


Right. 40K deaths a year in all auto accidents, 500K from Covid. Got it.
Have you gone off your meds or something?

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:47:59 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 06:06:54 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 12:24:19 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message

We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the
restaurant is more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
BULL****.

What are the annual deaths from all auto accidents in the US, 40K?
We have 500K dead from Covid in one year, we're adding to that at the
rate of 1K+ per day and Covid is now increasing again in 13 states.

Look at who died and lets reframe the question.
95% of the covid deaths involved people, mostly old people with
serious co morbidities.

That's very wrong too.



A good percentage of them were in nursing
homes, not out on the road.
If you are a reasonably healthy person and you drive to a restaurant
that is using any decent health and safety protocol, which is more
dangerous?

28% were under 70, 12% under 60. Twelve percent of 500K is 60K,
50% higher than the deaths from auto accidents. And we can't deal
with the population we'd like to have, we have to deal with the population
that we actually have.



I also notice that some of the states with the worst resurgence of
cases are still locked down. Michigan is a good start on that but New
Jersey is running pretty tight too. Hawaii is even harder to explain.
The worst states reported tonight on NBC were Maine, New Hampshire,
New Jersey, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota and Idaho.

I can't keep track of the specifics of the restrictions in the many states.
NJ is far from "locked down". Restaurants are open at 50% capacity,
gyms are open, all businesses are open, etc. The explanation for here
and NY is likely due to easing of what the restrictions were a month or
two ago and that the more transmissible UK variant is now ~30% of new
cases.

Meanwhile, I do know stupid when I see it and that's Spring Break in FL.
I see Miami Beach had to declare an emergency, put in place an 8pM
curfew, etc, to finally do something to try to limit that disaster. Packed
bars, packed beaches, wild partying, no masks, no distancing.
Apparently it was the good old bait and switch deployed by DeSantis.
Have everything open, no masks, lure them down, then when it's too late for the
dopes that came and for the whole country that will get infected as
a result, start shutting it down.




I do expect we might see more cases here but with so many people from
those hot spots coming here it is not surprising.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 1:11:38 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 5:23:15 AM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:53:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day
on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting
Fauci
as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not
be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe and will he get
away
from the hysteria before then?
Nothing is 100% safe. My last tetanus booster was not 100% safe.
At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?
We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?
If you are vaccinated, the chance of serious illness or death is much
reduced. It's a calculated risk.

I get my first dose of Moderna today.
I had my second M ten days ago. First shot I had a very sore arm for
two
days.
Second one, I was expecting it to be worse. Instead I had a minor sore
arm for
one day. A friend who's 76 got his, he didn't even have a sore arm.

Because his immune system isnt as effective as yours.
Thats what produces the sore arm.

That's wrong too, stupid.

We'll see...

Vaccine scientists have said that there is no correlation between
the severity of any reaction and the protection that results.

Thats a different matter entirely, ****wit.

So what are you claiming produces the sore arm ?

Clearly wanking in your case.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 4:01:16 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 12:39:57 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 3:07:37 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 1:54:17 PM UTC-4, Oliver George
wrote:
https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/

And you still cannot differentiate a credible source from pure
crap.

Here are 12 important questions and answers before considering
getting
vaccinated:


Q: If I get vaccinated can I stop wearing a mask(s)?

Government: NO

Fine. Wearing a mask is not onerous.

Q: If I get vaccinated will the restaurants, bars, schools,
fitness
clubs, hair salons, etc. reopen and will people be able to get
back
to
work like
normal?

Government: NO

I've been working unvaccinated all year. I'll be happy for
everybody
at my office to be vacinnated.

Q: If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?

Government: Maybe. We dont know exactly, but probably not.

That's wrong. The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer,
95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%.

Those are the numbers for avoiding serious
disease, not for getting infected.

That's wrong.
Nope, thats what the Phase 3 trials measured and thats
where those numbers came from. They havent measure
the effectiveness of preventing infection by the virus yet,
that measurement is being done now and we dont have
the numbers yet.
The effectiveness was measured by people being diagnosed
as having Covid, not for having serious disease.
Wrong, as always.

Just like always, just like Trump and Fretwell. Get
it wrong and then just keep doubling down on it.
We'll see...
I read the Pfizer trial document that was submitted to FDA for
approval.
But clearly didnt understand it or even what a Phase 3 trial is about.
The effectiveness number was not based on "serious disease".
It was measured on how many of the people who
were vaccinated wound up DIAGNOSED with Covid,
regardless of the severity, compared to the control group.
Wrong, as always and that document didnt even say that.

It isnt even possible to diagnose who got covid because
the whole point of a vaccine is to get the body to produce
lots of antibodys so you cant even measure if the individual
has got covid when there are no symptoms.

That's obviously wrong too, stupid.

We'll see...

It's like saying we can't diagnose someone having
Measles either, if they've been vaccinated.

Nothing like. You dont get symptomless Measles, ****wit.

Following that logic, it would be impossible to know if any vaccine
is effective, because we can't tell who has it and who does not.

Even sillier than you usually manage and thats saying something.
We can see if they have any symptoms and do a PCR test, ****wit.

It was ~95% effective in reducing the number diagnosed with Covid.

Wrong, as always.

No, that's exactly what you're own reference, wiki says, stupid.

Wrong, as always.

It says they have to have symptoms, ****wit.

And since this mindless **** is all you can ever manage,
here goes the chain on your even sillier **** and lies.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 02:12:03 -0400, micky
wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:54:19 -0400,
wrote:


If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to kill some of my family
and friends?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.


You missed the point Fauci and his gang said. The vaccine is not
proven to reduce transmission so you are not protecting others.

You have a pretty obvious mistake here. All you can say is, "The vaccine
is not proven to reduce transmission so IT IS NOT PROVEN THAT you are
protecting others." I don't have to explain why this sentence is
correct, right?

Read that in the context of the thread.

We did and what you've been posting is still wrong, very wrong. Micky is
right.


Further, there is quite a bit of evidence from israel that Pfizer does
reduce transmission, and Moderna is basically the same as Pfizer, so
that's another mistake.

Tell Fauci. He didn't get that memo.

I didn't see the relevant exchange. But given your track record with 1+1
= 7
I can guess what could have happened. And Fauci is trying to guide a
country,
he's not going to rush to change national policy based on one study.
Especially when for most purposes, it doesn't matter right now. You
expect
Fauci to say, well, if you've been vaccinated, based on what we see now
from the Israel study, you don't need to wear a mask. It doesn't take
much
thought to figure out what would happen then. There are already 40% of
the population that wouldn't have been wearing masks from the beginning,
regardless of vaccines. They are Covid deniers. So if Fauci gave the
green
light, Walmart and similar would be swamped with morons showing up
wearing no masks, claiming they have been vaccinated and demanding to
be let in. And Fauci, like the rest of the sane folks, know it's just a
simple
mask.

It's really something. Trump for months spewed one false statement, one
lie
after another about Covid. He turned to govt officials and asked them to
start
investigating cleansing people's lungs with bleach. He held death
rallies, no
masks, no social distancing. Not a peep about any of that. But Fauci,
your
all over him with criticism, like white on rice.






Cindy just said this about it protecting you.

"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.

Scott is right. If you're comparing 94.1, 95, and 99.7, you shouldn't
be. They represent two different things that are independent of each
other.

OK here is another number
"Scientists and researchers are constantly tracking infections and
recoveries. But they have data only on confirmed cases, so they cant
count people who dont get COVID-19 tests. Experts also dont have
information about the outcome of every infection. However, early
estimates predict that the overall COVID-19 recovery rate is between
97% and 99.75%."
https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-recovery-overview#1

Funny, you told us yesterday that the Covid death rate was just 0.3%
Now apparently it's 0.25% to as high as 3%.




I am doing the Pfizer Sunday but mostly because it was free and easy.
I am not convinced it is going to improve my life much if I still need
to wear a mask and avoid seeing people according to the government.

That's the thing so many people don't appreciate. You're not sick now
and if you don't get sick in the next 2 years, you probably won't know
-- I don't know how you could know -- if it's because you didn't meet
anyone with Corona, you did but you wouldn't have caught it from him
anyhow, or you would have caught it but the vaccine saved you.
I have been far from a hermit. I am out running around pretty much
like normal for the last year, in an unlocked down state and if I got
it, I was asymptomatic. No I am not running scared like most of you. I
am getting the vaccine because it was easy at CVS, just like I said I
would do months ago when the vaccine was announced.
I was not willing to get in Black Friday lines or be "caller # 47" in
some call in contest.

Based on all that you've posted I really don't understand why you're
getting the vaccine.

Thats obvious. Its free and easy to get and there is no evidence
of a risk anything like the risk of getting infected with covid.

Clearly he isnt an anti vaxer as you stupidly claimed.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:23:35 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:51:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:53:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day
on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci
as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not
be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe

Cite for us the drugs that "they" say are 100% safe. Why must that be
the
standard in the midst of a pandemic, with 550K dead so far, in just one
year?


Fauci seems to be the one shooting for 100% safe.

Failed attempt at diversion to the wilderness.

Some of us are
willing to take a calculated risk.
I said before, your chance of being killed in your car is higher
driving to a restaurant than it is from covid you might get there.


Right. 40K deaths a year in all auto accidents, 500K from Covid. Got
it.
Have you gone off your meds or something?

Or something, gross senility. That is something you did get right, likely by
accident.

On 3/21/21 9:08 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Right. 40K deaths a year in all auto accidents, 500K from Covid. Got it.
Have you gone off your meds or something?


That 500,000 number is pure bull**** and any honest person in healthcare will tell you that.

On 3/21/2021 12:41 PM, Dan wrote:
On 3/21/21 9:08 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Right.Â* 40K deaths a year in all auto accidents, 500K from Covid.
Got it.
Have you gone off your meds or something?


That 500,000 number is pure bull**** and any honest person in healthcare
will tell you that.

Death rate is up 15% last year. Maybe a lot of people fell off the roof.

On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 12:41:39 -0400, Dan wrote:

On 3/21/21 9:08 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Right. 40K deaths a year in all auto accidents, 500K from Covid. Got it.
Have you gone off your meds or something?


That 500,000 number is pure bull**** and any honest person in healthcare will tell you that.
Yes, a will reluctantly agree with you. The REAL number is much
closer to 600,000 - and THAT number may be low.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Mar 2021 19:39:08 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 16:26:45 -0400, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:05:36 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 02:23:12 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I get my first dose of Moderna today.

I got my first dose of Moderna last Tuesday. Sore muscle in the area for a
day or two, but very minor. It's now 4 days later and it's fully back to
normal.

I got Johnson & Johnson 16 days ago. No soreness or anything. I guess
I"m done!

I had bought a box on Entenmann cupcakes. Smaller but also filled and
better than Drakes and better than Hostess, IME (2 or 3 boxes) since
Hostess closed and reopened. I'd eaten 3 of the 8 before it occurred to
me they might be a nice present for the staff there. Individually
wrapped, which I didn't plan but it was good in case anyone was, you
know, germ-conscious. Only one woman turned it down, because she had an
apple,

She wasn't fat at all. Maybe it's the apples she eats.

but the 5 others liked it, especially two of them who told me it
was really sweet of me.

At my facility, all of the workers were National Guard. I thanked some of
them for being there but they gave me a look that said they didn't have a
choice.

No, but I'll bet they felt good at the end of the day. And I heard
some interview in a conservative area when the person thought getting it
from a soldier was something like patriotic.

I should have brought cupcakes.

I had read about Israelis bringing food, not just snacks but salads,
main dishes, casseroles, etc. and I was sitting there with a box of
cupcakes trying not to eat the remaining 6 at one meal. If I hadn't
thought of giving it to them, they would have only lasted a day for me.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Mar 2021 06:02:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 11:22:22 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/19/2021 10:52 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.

I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?
At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?
We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?

Every time Fauci tried to explain about the variants Paul cut him off.
He asked questions but did not want to hear answers, he wanted to make
his own statement.

https://tinyurl.com/336xnms7

Paul comes across as an arrogant politician that wants to show how smart
he is.

+1

Another fine example of what the GOP has become today. I remember when the
jerk was running for president. At one of the debates the issue of what to do about
Iran developing nuclear weapons came up. Rand Paul said it's their right to go ahead
and develop one. By the time he was done answering, it sounded like he thought it
would be a good idea to help them do it or just give them some. He's cuckoo for
cocoa puffs. Must be in the family genes, his father was half nuts too, but this one
is worse.

Yes, his father was too "conservative" but this guy is a wacko.

There are iirc 4 Repulbican senators among the 25% of Congress, which
means 50% of Republicans, who haven't gotten vaccinated even though they
all could have months ago. You have to really be an idealogue to risk
your life for stupid principles.

There is only one Republican member of Congress from Maryland, Andy
Harris, who is also an MD** and he spent one morning (probably more like
30 or 60 minutes) giving vaccine injections in his district. And he
made a point of it iirc by getting reporters there to notice. So he's
not a medical idiot. BUT, he was also among the 147 Republican
congressmen (including 8 Republican senators out of about 260 Republican
representatives and senators who voted against certifying the election
results. (so that 8 out of 50 Rep. senators and 139 out of about 210
Rep. representatives!)
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...objectors.html



**I really wonder why someone doing something so productive as medicine
would stop and spend his time, no matter which party he was in, spinning
his wheels in Congress. Ben Carson's hands began to be unsteady, so
that's a good reason, especially for a brain surgeon like he was, where
every millimeter matters. But I wonder about some of the others if
they didn't know they were not good doctors so they should try something
else. Harris is an anesthesiologist and I don't think if his hand
shakes a little it would keep him from medicine, in fact he claims to be
still practicing medicine. Maybe one of the links below will say if he
does that or not. I'll read them when I get home. Now I have to go out
and I haven't read them yet, but I'm emailing them to someone else who
because of gerrymandering, lives in his district although it's miles
from the rest of his district.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/rese.../andrew-harris
https://www.baltimoresun.com/marylan...6sa-story.html
https://www.delmarvanow.com/story/ne...il/5851475002/
https://patch.com/maryland/belair/i-...signation-call

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 03:29:19 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

03:29 in Australia, you perverted trolling senile swine from Oz? BG

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 03:38:40 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

03:38 in Australia? Do you sociopathic senile swine know NO shame AT ALL?

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?
Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 03:33:31 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

"micky" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Mar 2021 06:02:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 11:22:22 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/19/2021 10:52 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci
as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not
be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.

I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?
At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?
We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?

Every time Fauci tried to explain about the variants Paul cut him off.
He asked questions but did not want to hear answers, he wanted to make
his own statement.

https://tinyurl.com/336xnms7

Paul comes across as an arrogant politician that wants to show how smart
he is.

+1

Another fine example of what the GOP has become today. I remember when
the
jerk was running for president. At one of the debates the issue of what
to do about
Iran developing nuclear weapons came up. Rand Paul said it's their right
to go ahead
and develop one. By the time he was done answering, it sounded like he
thought it
would be a good idea to help them do it or just give them some. He's
cuckoo for
cocoa puffs. Must be in the family genes, his father was half nuts too,
but this one
is worse.

Yes, his father was too "conservative" but this guy is a wacko.

There are iirc 4 Repulbican senators among the 25% of Congress, which
means 50% of Republicans, who haven't gotten vaccinated even though they
all could have months ago. You have to really be an idealogue to risk
your life for stupid principles.

There is only one Republican member of Congress from Maryland, Andy
Harris, who is also an MD** and he spent one morning (probably more like
30 or 60 minutes) giving vaccine injections in his district. And he
made a point of it iirc by getting reporters there to notice. So he's
not a medical idiot. BUT, he was also among the 147 Republican
congressmen (including 8 Republican senators out of about 260 Republican
representatives and senators who voted against certifying the election
results. (so that 8 out of 50 Rep. senators and 139 out of about 210
Rep. representatives!)
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...objectors.html



**I really wonder why someone doing something so productive
as medicine would stop and spend his time, no matter which
party he was in, spinning his wheels in Congress.

I guess some feel that they can make more of a difference in Congress.

Ben Carson's hands began to be unsteady, so that's a good reason,
especially for a brain surgeon like he was, where every millimeter
matters. But I wonder about some of the others if they didn't know
they were not good doctors so they should try something else.

And presumably some just decide that they don't like the
job with an endless stream of people silly enough to see
a doctor when they have the common cold or just need
a medical certificate for time off work or just don't like
having to show up and go thru the motions when you
don't feel like it some days.

Harris is an anesthesiologist and I don't think if his hand
shakes a little it would keep him from medicine, in fact
he claims to be still practicing medicine. Maybe one of
the links below will say if he does that or not. I'll read
them when I get home. Now I have to go out and I
haven't read them yet, but I'm emailing them to someone
else who because of gerrymandering, lives in his district
although it's miles from the rest of his district.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/rese.../andrew-harris
https://www.baltimoresun.com/marylan...6sa-story.html
https://www.delmarvanow.com/story/ne...il/5851475002/
https://patch.com/maryland/belair/i-...signation-call

On 3/21/2021 7:14 AM, jimmy wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/336xnms7

Paul comes across as an arrogant politician that wants to show how smart
he is.
And all he does is show how ignorant he is


Rand Paul is just following the science.

If a snowflake can't handle the truth, they should "circle back" to
their safe space until the "crisis" is over.


No, the eye doctor was over talking the scientist. He did not want to
hear what the scientist was trying to explain.

On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 17:35:21 -0400, Heywood wrote:

On 3/21/2021 7:14 AM, jimmy wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/336xnms7

Paul comes across as an arrogant politician that wants to show how smart
he is.
And all he does is show how ignorant he is


Rand Paul is just following the science.

If a snowflake can't handle the truth, they should "circle back" to
their safe space until the "crisis" is over.


No, the eye doctor was over talking the scientist. He did not want to
hear what the scientist was trying to explain.

What "scientist"? Fauci is a politician.
I doubt he has stepped in a lab other than to get his picture taken
for a decade and he hasn't seen a patient in 3 decades.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 17:35:21 -0400, Heywood wrote:

On 3/21/2021 7:14 AM, jimmy wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/336xnms7

Paul comes across as an arrogant politician that wants to show how
smart
he is.
And all he does is show how ignorant he is


Rand Paul is just following the science.

If a snowflake can't handle the truth, they should "circle back" to
their safe space until the "crisis" is over.


No, the eye doctor was over talking the scientist. He did not want to
hear what the scientist was trying to explain.

What "scientist"? Fauci is a politician.

Even sillier than you usually manage and that's saying something.

I doubt he has stepped in a lab other
than to get his picture taken for a decade

Irrelevant to whether he is a scientist or not.

and he hasn't seen a patient in 3 decades.

Irrelevant to whether he is a scientist or not.

On 3/21/2021 10:42 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 17:35:21 -0400, Heywood wrote:

On 3/21/2021 7:14 AM, jimmy wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/336xnms7

Paul comes across as an arrogant politician that wants to show how smart
he is.
And all he does is show how ignorant he is


Rand Paul is just following the science.

If a snowflake can't handle the truth, they should "circle back" to
their safe space until the "crisis" is over.


No, the eye doctor was over talking the scientist. He did not want to
hear what the scientist was trying to explain.

What "scientist"? Fauci is a politician.
I doubt he has stepped in a lab other than to get his picture taken
for a decade and he hasn't seen a patient in 3 decades.


At least Fauci worked in infectious diseases. I trust him more than the
eye doctor politician that thinks he knows more.

On 03/21/2021 09:00 PM, MikeJ wrote:
Trader_4 used the term Spring Break, I used the term kids, because what
I've seen on TV looks like young people. Of course, anyone younger than me
is a kid. Like the mayor, I also don't see it as a Spring Break 'thing'.

From the photos I've seen the rioters are young people of color.
Someone is already whining about the cops' racist tactics of herding
them from the downtown strip.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 3/21/2021 10:42 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 17:35:21 -0400, Heywood wrote:

On 3/21/2021 7:14 AM, jimmy wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/336xnms7

Paul comes across as an arrogant politician that wants to show how
smart
he is.
And all he does is show how ignorant he is


Rand Paul is just following the science.

If a snowflake can't handle the truth, they should "circle back" to
their safe space until the "crisis" is over.


No, the eye doctor was over talking the scientist. He did not want to
hear what the scientist was trying to explain.

What "scientist"? Fauci is a politician.

I doubt he has stepped in a lab other than to get his picture taken
for a decade and he hasn't seen a patient in 3 decades.

At least Fauci worked in infectious diseases. I trust him more than the
eye doctor politician that thinks he knows more.

And it isnt about trust, that ****wit Paul clearly doesnt
have a ****ing clue about the science with this virus.