On 3/19/21 3:58 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode.Â* I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.


Rand Paul was just correcting FonyFauci's bull****.Â* Calling Rand a "bully" makes you sound like a purple-haired snowflake.

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 5:49:52 AM UTC-4, jimmy wrote:
On 3/19/21 3:58 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
Rand Paul was just correcting FonyFauci's bull****. Calling Rand a "bully" makes you sound like a purple-haired snowflake.

Ok, boomer.

Cindy Hamilton

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 3:07:37 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 1:54:17 PM UTC-4, Oliver George wrote:
https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/

And you still cannot differentiate a credible source from pure crap.

Here are 12 important questions and answers before considering getting
vaccinated:


Q: If I get vaccinated can I stop wearing a mask(s)?

Government: NO

Fine. Wearing a mask is not onerous.

Q: If I get vaccinated will the restaurants, bars, schools, fitness
clubs, hair salons, etc. reopen and will people be able to get back to
work like
normal?

Government: NO

I've been working unvaccinated all year. I'll be happy for everybody
at my office to be vacinnated.

Q: If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?

Government: Maybe. We dont know exactly, but probably not.

That's wrong. The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%.
Those are the numbers for avoiding serious disease, not for getting
infected.

That's wrong. The effectiveness was measured by people being diagnosed
as having Covid, not for having serious disease. If the test subjects came down
with Covid symptoms they were examined by doctors and tested for Covid.
They did not have to present with "serious disease" to be counted, only symptomatic Covid.

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 3:39:35 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 18:47:12 +0000, Bod wrote:

On 19/03/2021 17:54, Oliver George wrote:
https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/



Here are 12 important questions and answers before considering getting
vaccinated:


Q: If I get vaccinated can I stop wearing a mask(s)?

Government: NO


Q: If I get vaccinated will the restaurants, bars, schools, fitness
clubs, hair salons, etc. reopen and will people be able to get back to
work like normal?

Government: NO


Q: If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?

Government: Maybe. We dont know exactly, but probably not.


Q: If I get vaccinated, at least I wont be contagious to others €“ right?

Government: NO. the vaccine doesnt stop transmission.


Q: If I get vaccinated, how long will the vaccine last?

Government: No one knows. All Covid vaccines are still in the
experimental stage.


Q: If I get vaccinated, can I stop social distancing?

Government: NO


Q: If my parents, grandparents and myself all get vaccinated can we hug
each other again?

Government: NO


Q: So whats the benefit of getting vaccinated?

Government: Hoping that the virus wont kill you.


Q: Are you sure the vaccine wont injure or kill me?

Government: NO


Q: If statistically the virus wont kill me (99.7% survival rate), why
should I get vaccinated?

Government: To protect others.


Q: So if I get vaccinated, I can protect 100% of people I come in
contact with?

Government: NO


Q: If I experience a severe adverse reaction, long-term effects (still
unknown) or die from the vaccine, will I (or my family) be compensated
from the vaccine manufacturer or the Government?

Government: NO €“ the government and vaccine manufacturers have zero
liability regarding this experimental drug


https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/



infowars? A typical misinformation twisting site.
Get the vaccine, you fool and read a reliable source for your info.
If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).

You really are Qanon/Alex Jones nuts. Incredible that you'd ask what's wrong
with all that BS after it's all been explained to you here many times now,
point by point. So listen to Alex Jones, don't get vaccinated, it's worthless.
Don't protect yourself, don't help the rest of humanity by stamping this out
before it mutates more into something far worse. We'll see how that works
out for you. And in the meantime don't claim to us that you're not another
anti-vax nut.

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 3:54:49 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:53:38 -0400, micky
wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 13:54:11 -0400, Oliver George
wrote:

https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/


Infowars.

Here's a few more important questiosn they didn't include:

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to get sick?

Yes.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to need a hospital?

Yes.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to get sent to the Intensive
Care Unit?

Yes.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to die?

Yes. 100,000 times more likely. Probably a million times.

If I don't get vaccinated and I don't die, am I more likely to have new
long-term health problems?

Yes. As much as a 33% chance of that.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to make my family and
friends sick?

Yes.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to send some of my family
and friends to the hospital?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to send some of my family
and friends to the ICU?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to kill some of my family
and friends?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.

You missed the point Fauci and his gang said. The vaccine is not
proven to reduce transmission so you are not protecting others.

That one is worth ripping apart again, it's your typical 1+1 = 7 BS.
Following your faulty logic, because we don't know if a train is coming
today, there is no train coming today. And it's even worse than that
because the scientists have stated many times now that while they
do not have specific data on this, from the experiences with other
vaccines and their knowledge of Covid, they believe it is highly likely
that it does prevent transmission. It's like train experts saying that
based on everything they know they believe it's highly likely that a train
is coming today and you using that to conclude that no train is coming.
You're a never ending fountain of FUD and anti-vax BS.





Cindy just said this about it protecting you.
"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."
Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.

1 + 1 = 7

Now you're conflating effectiveness with survival rate. Effectiveness is measured
by not having Covid symptoms, not being diagnosed with Covid. The percentage of
vaccinated people who die from Covid is vanishingly small. And IDK where you got
the death rate of people with Covid being 0.3%. The number is more like 2.7% of
the closed cases. There are undiagnosed cases that will bring that down, but
I seriously doubt it's by an order of magnitude. What does Alex Jones tell you?


I am doing the Pfizer Sunday but mostly because it was free and easy.

So add flaming hypocrite to the list.


I am not convinced it is going to improve my life much if I still need
to wear a mask and avoid seeing people according to the government.
I am only lucky that my state is not run by the Branch Covidian cult
and we can get out and do things if we want. The results still have us
in the middle of the pack in spite of a very high median age, lots of
outsiders coming and going and nothing really closed.
States like California struggle to explain it and CNN is just
gobsmacked by it.

Maybe your dumb luck will run out.

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 4:17:43 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Mar 2021 06:04:26 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:


Q: If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?

Government: Maybe. We dont know exactly, but probably not.

That last is your bare faced lie. The govt never said that.
That's for sure. Everyone but liars and dumbbells say that even the
least good of the vaccines makes one resistant. Not 100%, but
"resistance" doesn't even imply 100%, so "resistant" is still accurate.

Q: If I get vaccinated, at least I wont be contagious to others €“ right?

Government: NO. the vaccine doesnt stop transmission.
Government never said that either. At most they said, We don't know.
Since then there is a lot of evidence for Pfizer that it does.

Corse it does if it stops you getting infected.
Rest omitted. I've spent more time than it's worth arguing with this
dummy.

What is it that makes some people so stupid? I really don't get it.
Did they get D's and F's in school? Are they on drugs or liquor? Did
they go without oxygen in the birth canal? Were they abused as
children? Do they only watch stupid TV and read stupid websites. I
know the latter is part of it, but how can they be so stupid they
discount everything else they read and sometimes they at least read the
answers they get here.

I would suspect that a lot of it originates with Putin intel ops that create, spread
and amplify the lies and BS to destroy the USA. It doesn't have to be very convincing
to get dummies and whackos to fall for it.

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 4:24:11 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:


"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.
You are comparing
apples to oranges. You cannot extrapolate from the
death rate of those who have so far had the virus to the
entire population, the majority of which have not contracted
the virus. So your 99.7% number is meaningless, wrong and dangerous.

+1

AFAIK, the 99.7% number is BS to begin with. Over 2% of those diagnosed with Covid
have died. There are undiagnosed cases that will bring that down, but I think
his 0.3% number is highly suspect and probably came from the usual place.


Note that the survival rate for all vaccines is 100%, as
even if one does get the virus after vaccination, the symptoms are significantly
milder, if even detectable.

IDK if it's 100%, but it does appear to be a couple orders of magnitude better
than without being vaccinated. Which of course is fantastic for any reasonable,
intelligent persons. But the nothing would be good enough for the anti-vax,
conspiracy nuts.

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 8:20:45 PM UTC-4, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2021-03-19, micky wrote:
Here's a few more important questiosn they didn't include:

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to get sick?

Yes.
...

An important question for you:

If I take one of these experimental vaccines that have received only
very limited testing,

The testing was not very limited. They were tested on about 50K people,
went through full phase 3 testing.


and are approved for emergency use only,

We are in an emergency, with 550K Americans dead, the economy screwed,
you know.


and I
develop problems from it a year or more from now will YOU accept
financial liability for that? The vaccine manufacturers are shielded
from liability, so having held yourself out as a medical expert and
advised me to take part in this medical experiment, will YOU step up
to the plate if I am harmed?

I don't see Micky claiming to be a medical expert, only citing what medical
experts have said. If you're suggesting that the govt should have created
a compensation fund specifically for the Covid vaccine, that's probably a
good idea. Why didn't Trump or the big mouth GOP anti-maskers, anti-vaxers
do that, they had 9 months?

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:53:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe

Cite for us the drugs that "they" say are 100% safe. Why must that be the
standard in the midst of a pandemic, with 550K dead so far, in just one year?



and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?

You should be focused on getting away from your hysteria.



At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?

We have a lot of good information right now. The sad thing is that there
are a lot of people that won't accept it or worse, totally twist it, misrepresent it,
turn it into FUD. Mostly Trumpets of course. Something like 40% of Republicans
say they won't get the vaccine, more like 50% among people who supported
Trump. That's a very good example why your claim that Trump is gone, he
doesn't matter anymore, there is no damage still with us, etc is baloney.



We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?


I'm with Jim, what's the point in engaging with you when it's all been explained
to you ten times already, but you still come back, posing the same questions
all over again.

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:58:59 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 20:24:06 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
writes:


"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.

You are comparing
apples to oranges. You cannot extrapolate from the
death rate of those who have so far had the virus to the
entire population, the majority of which have not contracted
the virus. So your 99.7% number is meaningless, wrong and dangerous.

Note that the survival rate for all vaccines is 100%, as
even if one does get the virus after vaccination, the symptoms are significantly
milder, if even detectable.
If Fauci had said that Paul would not have had much more to say

Did Rand Paul ask that specific question? You know how this works, right? Senators
ask the questions, the person appearing answers them. People appearing also
figure that Senators, especially ones that are doctors, should be at least as well
informed already as the public. When it comes to Rand Paul, I guess that was a
mistake. Either he's willfully ignorant or trying to twist, distort and BS around,
which, IMO, is the more likely problem.




Why are we still running scared even after vaccination?

IDK, because people like you, Alex Jones, Qanon and Rand Paul are spreading FUD?
And who exactly is running scared? I'm not scared.

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 11:22:22 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/19/2021 10:52 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.

I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?
At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?
We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?

Every time Fauci tried to explain about the variants Paul cut him off.
He asked questions but did not want to hear answers, he wanted to make
his own statement.

https://tinyurl.com/336xnms7

Paul comes across as an arrogant politician that wants to show how smart
he is.

+1

Another fine example of what the GOP has become today. I remember when the
jerk was running for president. At one of the debates the issue of what to do about
Iran developing nuclear weapons came up. Rand Paul said it's their right to go ahead
and develop one. By the time he was done answering, it sounded like he thought it
would be a good idea to help them do it or just give them some. He's cuckoo for
cocoa puffs. Must be in the family genes, his father was half nuts too, but this one
is worse.

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 12:24:19 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message

We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the
restaurant is more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
BULL****.

What are the annual deaths from all auto accidents in the US, 40K?
We have 500K dead from Covid in one year, we're adding to that at the
rate of 1K+ per day and Covid is now increasing again in 13 states.

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 2:12:22 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:54:19 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:53:38 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 13:54:11 -0400, Oliver George
wrote:

https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/


Infowars.

Here's a few more important questiosn they didn't include:

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to get sick?

Yes.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to need a hospital?

Yes.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to get sent to the Intensive
Care Unit?

Yes.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to die?

Yes. 100,000 times more likely. Probably a million times.

If I don't get vaccinated and I don't die, am I more likely to have new
long-term health problems?

Yes. As much as a 33% chance of that.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to make my family and
friends sick?

Yes.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to send some of my family
and friends to the hospital?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to send some of my family
and friends to the ICU?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to kill some of my family
and friends?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.


You missed the point Fauci and his gang said. The vaccine is not
proven to reduce transmission so you are not protecting others.
You have a pretty obvious mistake here. All you can say is, "The vaccine
is not proven to reduce transmission so IT IS NOT PROVEN THAT you are
protecting others." I don't have to explain why this sentence is
correct, right?

Further, there is quite a bit of evidence from israel that Pfizer does
reduce transmission, and Moderna is basically the same as Pfizer, so
that's another mistake.
Cindy just said this about it protecting you.

"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.
Scott is right. If you're comparing 94.1, 95, and 99.7, you shouldn't
be. They represent two different things that are independent of each
other.
I am doing the Pfizer Sunday but mostly because it was free and easy.
I am not convinced it is going to improve my life much if I still need
to wear a mask and avoid seeing people according to the government.
That's the thing so many people don't appreciate. You're not sick now
and if you don't get sick in the next 2 years, you probably won't know
-- I don't know how you could know -- if it's because you didn't meet
anyone with Corona, you did but you wouldn't have caught it from him
anyhow, or you would have caught it but the vaccine saved you.

But be assured, I don't know what all the percentage are but if you were
not vaccinated and you are not a hermit (and especially if everyone else
wasn't vaccinated but even if 50% or 90% of the people were) there is
good chance you would catch the virus, and if you did, a 10% chance you
would end up in the hospital, and 1) a 10% chance within that you would
end up in the ICU, and I'm guessing a more than 50% chance within that
that you would end up dead. and 2) a 33% chance you'd have long-term
sequelae**, serious medical problems.

But becaue the vaccine has a 95% chance that it would save you from all
of that, if you're not convinced now, and you don't believe what
researchers says, there will be nothing in particular to convince you in
the future. Many things, including I'm sure many things you believe,
can only be proven by statistically. But people pick certain things to
not believe statistics for.

And lets say 300 million Americans got the vaccine, and it's 5%
in-effective. That's 15 million people, and some percentage of them may
meet someone contagious, and he may end up sick, and instead of a 10%
chance he'd end up in the hospital, maybe there's a 1% chance he would
(and a 0% chance he'd end up in the ICU), but when some anti-vaxer finds
one of these people, and there are likely to be 10 or 100 or 100's out
of 300 million, they will announce that the vaccine didn't do anything,
that the virus faded away on its own, like some do. Even though it
didn't.

Most of the people who don't like this vaccine still took all the other
vaccines, and still gave them to their children. The odds that measles
would seriuosly injure a child was always very low -- I had measles. My
parents weren't worried, afaik -- but the measles vaccine made it near
zero. The same people who don't like these vaccines still gave their
children the measles vaccine.

When polio was at its worst, the odds were still slim that any given
child (or adult) would get polio, but if you got it, it was terrible,
sometimes fatal, sometimes lifetime paralysis, so just about everyone
rushed to get it, even though they would probably would never have
gotten polio anyhow.

Other diseases were the same.

So why is this time different. I can think of only one reason.

Only in the age of trump and several other mostly Republican idiots has
medicine and statistics been overridden for some by idolatry (of trump)
and partisanship. If we'd had any other president including even** Ted
Cruz, we would have lost 200 or 300,000 dead, let's exaggerate and say
400,000, but not 550,000 and climbing. Yesterday or the day before
trump said it's a good vaccine and people should get it, and he said
something almost as "strong" at CPAC, but has it said it strong enough
or in a video PSA to change any minds? Has he insisted enough to make up
for months of denying it, for the time he claimed a little girl got ??
some dreaded illness from the vaccine? Had he not denied how serious
Corona was and had he belittled the doctors or the vaccine, we would not
have 50 million people or more who don't want the vaccine, who will make
a pool for the virus to continue to live, to mutate, and maybe infect
and kill people whose vaccine was not built on the mutation, and for
which it doens't work.

And now because you like trump, my previous paragraph will have undone
all the good that my words before it did, and you'll decide that any
sense I seemed to make in the first 80% of this past is nonsense because
I remind you that trump thinks*** the disease is a hoax, and has
minimized it from the start, including even his weak endorsement
yesterday (more than two months after he and Melania got vaccinated but
didn't tell anyone).


**I only save "even" because Ted Cruz was the second-worst Republican
candidate, not because he wouldn't have whole heartedly opposed Corona.
***So he says.

**Never had a chance to use that word before. I hope you are all
impressed.


When you're right, you're right. It was Trump who turned this pandemic into another
nasty, divisive, **** show. Instead of uniting Americans together against an enemy,
he used it for his own partisan, divisive political purposes. He made even a simple mask
a terribly divisive, partisan issue, he dissed them, mocked people wearing them,
refused to wear one, even got himself and those around him infected. He held death
maskless, no social distancing death rallies to try to get re-elected. Fretwell will tell you that
you're suffering from TDS, but the truth is that this is just one great example of the
damage that Trump has inflicted on this country and that it's still ongoing. Sadly Fretwell
is doing the same, misreprenting Covid facts, spreading FUD that puts us further behind
in the battle to save lives and stop Covid.

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 5:23:15 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:53:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?
Nothing is 100% safe. My last tetanus booster was not 100% safe.
At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?
We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?
If you are vaccinated, the chance of serious illness or death is much
reduced. It's a calculated risk.

I get my first dose of Moderna today.

Cindy Hamilton

I had my second M ten days ago. First shot I had a very sore arm for two days.
Second one, I was expecting it to be worse. Instead I had a minor sore arm for
one day. A friend who's 76 got his, he didn't even have a sore arm.

On 20/03/2021 09:28, jimmy wrote:
On 3/19/21 2:53 PM, micky wrote:
Here's a few more important questiosn they didn't include:

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to get sick?

Yes.


If I wear two masks, do I still need the FonyFauci-19 vaccine?

Have you always talked silly?

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:26:49 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 5:23:15 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:53:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?
Nothing is 100% safe. My last tetanus booster was not 100% safe.
At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?
We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?
If you are vaccinated, the chance of serious illness or death is much
reduced. It's a calculated risk.

I get my first dose of Moderna today.

Cindy Hamilton
I had my second M ten days ago. First shot I had a very sore arm for two days.
Second one, I was expecting it to be worse. Instead I had a minor sore arm for
one day. A friend who's 76 got his, he didn't even have a sore arm.

Good to know. My husband has had his first dose of Pfizer and reported
mild all-over itching with roving areas of more serious itching.

Cindy Hamilton

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:32:17 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 4:24:11 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:


"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.
You are comparing
apples to oranges. You cannot extrapolate from the
death rate of those who have so far had the virus to the
entire population, the majority of which have not contracted
the virus. So your 99.7% number is meaningless, wrong and dangerous.

+1

AFAIK, the 99.7% number is BS to begin with. Over 2% of those diagnosed with Covid

Yes. I didn't even notice that. All I noticed is that that number and
the other two are mostly unrelated. I guess, because I read Scott's
answer first and he pointed that out.

But, yes, about 2% have died. Compared to the number that die from the
flu which is iirc 0.1%. And compared to the number given, 0.3%, it's
more than 6 times as many as that number.

have died. There are undiagnosed cases that will bring that down, but I think
his 0.3% number is highly suspect and probably came from the usual place.


Note that the survival rate for all vaccines is 100%, as
even if one does get the virus after vaccination, the symptoms are significantly
milder, if even detectable.

IDK if it's 100%, but it does appear to be a couple orders of magnitude better
than without being vaccinated. Which of course is fantastic for any reasonable,
intelligent persons. But the nothing would be good enough for the anti-vax,
conspiracy nuts.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 22:58:29 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 20:24:06 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:


"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.

You are comparing
apples to oranges. You cannot extrapolate from the
death rate of those who have so far had the virus to the
entire population, the majority of which have not contracted
the virus. So your 99.7% number is meaningless, wrong and dangerous.

Note that the survival rate for all vaccines is 100%, as
even if one does get the virus after vaccination, the symptoms are significantly
milder, if even detectable.

If Fauci had said that Paul would not have had much more to say

Why are we still running scared even after vaccination?

Because even the best vaccine is only 95% effective and it's still not
known how much vaccinated people (not only don't get symptoms but) don't
get infectious** so they can infect others. There's a lot of evidence
that they resist even getting the infection, but they don't have good
numbers yet, and unless the number was very high, unless 80 or 90% who
don't get infectious, that is still enough to continue to spread the
disease and infect whatever unvaccinated people there are, who risk ICU
and death. And that's the sort of thing public health workers care
about.

There must be web pages that discuss disease transmission of
communicable diseases, which I think is the major aspect of
epidemiology. Reading 5 or 10 screens about that could be
enlightening. There is a lot of arithmetic in it I'm sure.
Multiplication especially.


**I'm using "infectious" because of an earlier misunderstanding we had
here. One of us used "sick" to mean showing symptoms and the other used
the word to also include infected. I think I was the second one and I
never posted an even better example. If someone T has typhoid but no
symptoms, but people can still catch typhoid from T and then die, is T
not sick? I say T is sick, even without symptoms.

But it was also reasonable to use it to mean only people who have
symptoms. That's what the meaning often is, sick meaning showing
symptoms, like vomiting, fever, etc. Without that someone's not sick.

Because these are two meanings of the same word.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 3:07:37 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 1:54:17 PM UTC-4, Oliver George wrote:
https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/

And you still cannot differentiate a credible source from pure crap.

Here are 12 important questions and answers before considering getting
vaccinated:


Q: If I get vaccinated can I stop wearing a mask(s)?

Government: NO

Fine. Wearing a mask is not onerous.

Q: If I get vaccinated will the restaurants, bars, schools, fitness
clubs, hair salons, etc. reopen and will people be able to get back to
work like
normal?

Government: NO

I've been working unvaccinated all year. I'll be happy for everybody
at my office to be vacinnated.

Q: If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?

Government: Maybe. We dont know exactly, but probably not.

That's wrong. The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%.

Those are the numbers for avoiding serious
disease, not for getting infected.

That's wrong.

Nope, thats what the Phase 3 trials measured and thats
where those numbers came from. They havent measure
the effectiveness of preventing infection by the virus yet,
that measurement is being done now and we dont have
the numbers yet.

The effectiveness was measured by people being diagnosed
as having Covid, not for having serious disease.

Wrong, as always.

If the test subjects came down with Covid symptoms
they were examined by doctors and tested for Covid.
They did not have to present with "serious disease"
to be counted, only symptomatic Covid.

Wrong, as always. That may well be what your
media has told you, but its just plain wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccine#Efficacy
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...075-X/fulltext

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 3:39:35 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 18:47:12 +0000, Bod wrote:

On 19/03/2021 17:54, Oliver George wrote:
https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/



Here are 12 important questions and answers before considering getting
vaccinated:


Q: If I get vaccinated can I stop wearing a mask(s)?

Government: NO


Q: If I get vaccinated will the restaurants, bars, schools, fitness
clubs, hair salons, etc. reopen and will people be able to get back to
work like normal?

Government: NO


Q: If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?

Government: Maybe. We dont know exactly, but probably not.


Q: If I get vaccinated, at least I wont be contagious to others €“
right?

Government: NO. the vaccine doesnt stop transmission.


Q: If I get vaccinated, how long will the vaccine last?

Government: No one knows. All Covid vaccines are still in the
experimental stage.


Q: If I get vaccinated, can I stop social distancing?

Government: NO


Q: If my parents, grandparents and myself all get vaccinated can we
hug
each other again?

Government: NO


Q: So whats the benefit of getting vaccinated?

Government: Hoping that the virus wont kill you.


Q: Are you sure the vaccine wont injure or kill me?

Government: NO


Q: If statistically the virus wont kill me (99.7% survival rate), why
should I get vaccinated?

Government: To protect others.


Q: So if I get vaccinated, I can protect 100% of people I come in
contact with?

Government: NO


Q: If I experience a severe adverse reaction, long-term effects (still
unknown) or die from the vaccine, will I (or my family) be compensated
from the vaccine manufacturer or the Government?

Government: NO €“ the government and vaccine manufacturers have zero
liability regarding this experimental drug


https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/



infowars? A typical misinformation twisting site.
Get the vaccine, you fool and read a reliable source for your info.
If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).

You really are Qanon/Alex Jones nuts.

Nope, he is in fact getting vaccinated.

Incredible that you'd ask what's wrong with all
that BS after it's all been explained to you here
many times now, point by point. So listen to
Alex Jones, don't get vaccinated, it's worthless.

He is in fact getting vaccinated.

Don't protect yourself, don't help the rest of humanity by
stamping this out before it mutates more into something
far worse. We'll see how that works out for you. And in the
meantime don't claim to us that you're not another anti-vax nut.

Corse he isnt if he is getting vaccinated.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 4:17:43 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Mar 2021 06:04:26 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:


Q: If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?

Government: Maybe. We dont know exactly, but probably not.

That last is your bare faced lie. The govt never said that.
That's for sure. Everyone but liars and dumbbells say that even the
least good of the vaccines makes one resistant. Not 100%, but
"resistance" doesn't even imply 100%, so "resistant" is still accurate.

Q: If I get vaccinated, at least I wont be contagious to others €“
right?

Government: NO. the vaccine doesnt stop transmission.
Government never said that either. At most they said, We don't know.
Since then there is a lot of evidence for Pfizer that it does.

Corse it does if it stops you getting infected.
Rest omitted. I've spent more time than it's worth arguing with this
dummy.

What is it that makes some people so stupid? I really don't get it.
Did they get D's and F's in school? Are they on drugs or liquor? Did
they go without oxygen in the birth canal? Were they abused as
children? Do they only watch stupid TV and read stupid websites. I
know the latter is part of it, but how can they be so stupid they
discount everything else they read and sometimes they at least read the
answers they get here.

I would suspect that a lot of it originates with Putin intel ops that
create, spread and amplify the lies and BS to destroy the USA.

More fool you. That doesnt explain the other nutty stuff like
the claim that the moon landing was faked, that 911 was done
by the US govt so they could control everyone, Area 15 etc etc etc.

It doesn't have to be very convincing to
get dummies and whackos to fall for it.

Yes, but it isnt just Putin intel ops doing that.

On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 03:39:45 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 12:24:19 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message

We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the
restaurant is more dangerous than going in, mask or not.

BULL****.

What are the annual deaths from all auto accidents in the US, 40K?

38K, so near enough.

We have 500K dead from Covid in one year,

Thats not his 'rapidly reaching' tho.

we're adding to that at the rate of 1K+ per day

And that amounts to at least 350K a year,
so as always he doesnt have a ****ing clue.

and Covid is now increasing again in 13 states.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 2:12:22 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:54:19 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:53:38 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 13:54:11 -0400, Oliver George
wrote:

https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/


Infowars.

Here's a few more important questiosn they didn't include:

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to get sick?

Yes.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to need a hospital?

Yes.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to get sent to the
Intensive
Care Unit?

Yes.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to die?

Yes. 100,000 times more likely. Probably a million times.

If I don't get vaccinated and I don't die, am I more likely to have new
long-term health problems?

Yes. As much as a 33% chance of that.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to make my family and
friends sick?

Yes.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to send some of my family
and friends to the hospital?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to send some of my family
and friends to the ICU?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to kill some of my family
and friends?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.


You missed the point Fauci and his gang said. The vaccine is not
proven to reduce transmission so you are not protecting others.
You have a pretty obvious mistake here. All you can say is, "The vaccine
is not proven to reduce transmission so IT IS NOT PROVEN THAT you are
protecting others." I don't have to explain why this sentence is
correct, right?

Further, there is quite a bit of evidence from israel that Pfizer does
reduce transmission, and Moderna is basically the same as Pfizer, so
that's another mistake.
Cindy just said this about it protecting you.

"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.
Scott is right. If you're comparing 94.1, 95, and 99.7, you shouldn't
be. They represent two different things that are independent of each
other.
I am doing the Pfizer Sunday but mostly because it was free and easy.
I am not convinced it is going to improve my life much if I still need
to wear a mask and avoid seeing people according to the government.
That's the thing so many people don't appreciate. You're not sick now
and if you don't get sick in the next 2 years, you probably won't know
-- I don't know how you could know -- if it's because you didn't meet
anyone with Corona, you did but you wouldn't have caught it from him
anyhow, or you would have caught it but the vaccine saved you.

But be assured, I don't know what all the percentage are but if you were
not vaccinated and you are not a hermit (and especially if everyone else
wasn't vaccinated but even if 50% or 90% of the people were) there is
good chance you would catch the virus, and if you did, a 10% chance you
would end up in the hospital, and 1) a 10% chance within that you would
end up in the ICU, and I'm guessing a more than 50% chance within that
that you would end up dead. and 2) a 33% chance you'd have long-term
sequelae**, serious medical problems.

But becaue the vaccine has a 95% chance that it would save you from all
of that, if you're not convinced now, and you don't believe what
researchers says, there will be nothing in particular to convince you in
the future. Many things, including I'm sure many things you believe,
can only be proven by statistically. But people pick certain things to
not believe statistics for.

And lets say 300 million Americans got the vaccine, and it's 5%
in-effective. That's 15 million people, and some percentage of them may
meet someone contagious, and he may end up sick, and instead of a 10%
chance he'd end up in the hospital, maybe there's a 1% chance he would
(and a 0% chance he'd end up in the ICU), but when some anti-vaxer finds
one of these people, and there are likely to be 10 or 100 or 100's out
of 300 million, they will announce that the vaccine didn't do anything,
that the virus faded away on its own, like some do. Even though it
didn't.

Most of the people who don't like this vaccine still took all the other
vaccines, and still gave them to their children. The odds that measles
would seriuosly injure a child was always very low -- I had measles. My
parents weren't worried, afaik -- but the measles vaccine made it near
zero. The same people who don't like these vaccines still gave their
children the measles vaccine.

When polio was at its worst, the odds were still slim that any given
child (or adult) would get polio, but if you got it, it was terrible,
sometimes fatal, sometimes lifetime paralysis, so just about everyone
rushed to get it, even though they would probably would never have
gotten polio anyhow.

Other diseases were the same.

So why is this time different. I can think of only one reason.

Only in the age of trump and several other mostly Republican idiots has
medicine and statistics been overridden for some by idolatry (of trump)
and partisanship. If we'd had any other president including even** Ted
Cruz, we would have lost 200 or 300,000 dead, let's exaggerate and say
400,000, but not 550,000 and climbing. Yesterday or the day before
trump said it's a good vaccine and people should get it, and he said
something almost as "strong" at CPAC, but has it said it strong enough
or in a video PSA to change any minds? Has he insisted enough to make up
for months of denying it, for the time he claimed a little girl got ??
some dreaded illness from the vaccine? Had he not denied how serious
Corona was and had he belittled the doctors or the vaccine, we would not
have 50 million people or more who don't want the vaccine, who will make
a pool for the virus to continue to live, to mutate, and maybe infect
and kill people whose vaccine was not built on the mutation, and for
which it doens't work.

And now because you like trump, my previous paragraph will have undone
all the good that my words before it did, and you'll decide that any
sense I seemed to make in the first 80% of this past is nonsense because
I remind you that trump thinks*** the disease is a hoax, and has
minimized it from the start, including even his weak endorsement
yesterday (more than two months after he and Melania got vaccinated but
didn't tell anyone).


**I only save "even" because Ted Cruz was the second-worst Republican
candidate, not because he wouldn't have whole heartedly opposed Corona.
***So he says.

**Never had a chance to use that word before. I hope you are all
impressed.

When you're right, you're right. It was Trump who turned this pandemic
into another
nasty, divisive, **** show. Instead of uniting Americans together
against an enemy,

That was never going to be possible with this virus
with fools like Muggles, jimmy, fretwell etc around.

he used it for his own partisan, divisive political purposes. He made
even a simple mask a terribly divisive, partisan issue, he dissed them,
mocked people wearing them, refused to wear one, even got himself
and those around him infected. He held death maskless, no social
distancing death rallies to try to get re-elected.

But has got vaccinated. Wonder how that happened.

And is telling the trumpets to get vaccinated.

Fretwell will tell you that you're suffering from TDS,
but the truth is that this is just one great example of
the damage that Trump has inflicted on this country
and that it's still ongoing. Sadly Fretwell is doing the
same, misreprenting Covid facts, spreading FUD that puts
us further behind in the battle to save lives and stop Covid.

Nope, because no one listens to him and he is getting vaccinated.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 5:23:15 AM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:53:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci
as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?
Nothing is 100% safe. My last tetanus booster was not 100% safe.
At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?
We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?
If you are vaccinated, the chance of serious illness or death is much
reduced. It's a calculated risk.

I get my first dose of Moderna today.

I had my second M ten days ago. First shot I had a very sore arm for two
days.
Second one, I was expecting it to be worse. Instead I had a minor sore
arm for
one day. A friend who's 76 got his, he didn't even have a sore arm.

Because his immune system isnt as effective as yours. Thats what produces
the sore arm.

"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 20/03/2021 09:28, jimmy wrote:
On 3/19/21 2:53 PM, micky wrote:
Here's a few more important questiosn they didn't include:

If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to get sick?

Yes.


If I wear two masks, do I still need the FonyFauci-19 vaccine?

Have you always talked silly?

Yep.

"Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 04:09:53 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

"micky" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 22:58:29 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 20:24:06 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:


"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.

You are comparing
apples to oranges. You cannot extrapolate from the
death rate of those who have so far had the virus to the
entire population, the majority of which have not contracted
the virus. So your 99.7% number is meaningless, wrong and dangerous.

Note that the survival rate for all vaccines is 100%, as
even if one does get the virus after vaccination, the symptoms are
significantly
milder, if even detectable.

If Fauci had said that Paul would not have had much more to say

Why are we still running scared even after vaccination?

Because even the best vaccine is only 95% effective

And that is at preventing severe disease. We don't
yet know how effective they are at preventing
infection tho that is being measured now.

and it's still not known how much vaccinated people (not only don't
get symptoms but) don't get infectious** so they can infect others.

And that's even harder to measure.

There's a lot of evidence that they resist even getting
the infection, but they don't have good numbers yet,
and unless the number was very high, unless 80 or 90%
who don't get infectious, that is still enough to continue
to spread the disease and infect whatever unvaccinated
people there are, who risk ICU and death.

And we don't yet know how effective the vaccines are
against the worst of the more virulent strains tho it is
known that the AZ isnt very effective at all against the
south african variant in the RSA.

And that's the sort of thing public health workers care about.

And what we should all care about except in countrys like
Australia and New Zealand which have the virus well under
control and arent getting any community transmission at
all now. The new cases are all with those entering the country.

There must be web pages that discuss disease transmission
of communicable diseases, which I think is the major aspect
of epidemiology. Reading 5 or 10 screens about that could
be enlightening.

Not for him, it goes in one ear and straight out the other.

He cant even get the death rate from the virus right, or
even manage to work out that the death rate due to the
virus is still TEN times the death rate due to car accidents.

There is a lot of arithmetic in it I'm sure.
Multiplication especially.

Yeah, its surprisingly complicated, particularly when the bulk
of the population has had the disease or has been vaccinated.

**I'm using "infectious" because of an earlier misunderstanding we had
here. One of us used "sick" to mean showing symptoms and the other
used the word to also include infected. I think I was the second one
and I never posted an even better example. If someone T has typhoid
but no symptoms, but people can still catch typhoid from T and then
die, is T not sick? I say T is sick, even without symptoms.

Nope, just infectious.

But it was also reasonable to use it to mean only people who have
symptoms. That's what the meaning often is, sick meaning showing
symptoms, like vomiting, fever, etc. Without that someone's not sick.

Because these are two meanings of the same word.

Not really. The first one is infectious, not sick.
Typhoid Mary was infectious but not sick.

On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 04:11:58 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Have you always talked silly?

Yep.

He didn't even talk to you! But good to see that you felt personally
addressed and admitted to it, senile bull**** artist.

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 12:39:57 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 3:07:37 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 1:54:17 PM UTC-4, Oliver George wrote:
https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/

And you still cannot differentiate a credible source from pure crap.

Here are 12 important questions and answers before considering getting
vaccinated:


Q: If I get vaccinated can I stop wearing a mask(s)?

Government: NO

Fine. Wearing a mask is not onerous.

Q: If I get vaccinated will the restaurants, bars, schools, fitness
clubs, hair salons, etc. reopen and will people be able to get back to
work like
normal?

Government: NO

I've been working unvaccinated all year. I'll be happy for everybody
at my office to be vacinnated.

Q: If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?

Government: Maybe. We dont know exactly, but probably not.

That's wrong. The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%.

Those are the numbers for avoiding serious
disease, not for getting infected.

That's wrong.
Nope, thats what the Phase 3 trials measured and thats
where those numbers came from. They havent measure
the effectiveness of preventing infection by the virus yet,
that measurement is being done now and we dont have
the numbers yet.
The effectiveness was measured by people being diagnosed
as having Covid, not for having serious disease.
Wrong, as always.

Just like always, just like Trump and Fretwell. Get it wrong and then just
keep doubling down on it. I read the Pfizer trial document that was submitted
to FDA for approval. The effectiveness number was not based on "serious disease".
It was measured on how many of the people who
were vaccinated wound up DIAGNOSED with Covid, regardless of the severity,
compared to the control group. It was ~95% effective in reducing the number
diagnosed with Covid. Further, other studies, eg Israel have confirmed that.
And if the metric is "serious Covid", then the effectiveness is even higher..




If the test subjects came down with Covid symptoms
they were examined by doctors and tested for Covid.
They did not have to present with "serious disease"
to be counted, only symptomatic Covid.
Wrong, as always. That may well be what your
media has told you, but its just plain wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccine#Efficacy


Thanks for confirming that you don't know WTF you're talking about. From your
own reference:

"The effectiveness of a new vaccine is defined by its efficacy during clinical trials.[140] The efficacy is the risk of getting the disease by vaccinated participants in the trial compared with the risk of getting the disease by unvaccinated participants.

In efficacy calculations, symptomatic COVID-19 is generally defined as having both a positive PCR test and at least one or two of a defined list of COVID-19 symptoms, although exact specifications varying between trials. "



Exactly what I said. It doesn't say what you said, which is that it's measured by reduction
in "serious cases". Further, if you look at the table, it says for the Moderna vaccine,
if the metric is "serious disease", then the efficacy is close to 100%.

Feel free to man up and admit you got it wrong, or continue to do what the losers do,
lie and deny.

On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 03:47:10 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

How are things at 03:47 in Australia, you obnoxious, sleepless, trolling
senile asshole?

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 02:23:12 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I get my first dose of Moderna today.

I got my first dose of Moderna last Tuesday. Sore muscle in the area for a
day or two, but very minor. It's now 4 days later and it's fully back to
normal.

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:51:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 10:53:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.
I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe

Cite for us the drugs that "they" say are 100% safe. Why must that be the
standard in the midst of a pandemic, with 550K dead so far, in just one year?



and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?

You should be focused on getting away from your hysteria.



At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?

We have a lot of good information right now. The sad thing is that there
are a lot of people that won't accept it or worse, totally twist it, misrepresent it,
turn it into FUD. Mostly Trumpets of course. Something like 40% of Republicans
say they won't get the vaccine, more like 50% among people who supported
Trump. That's a very good example why your claim that Trump is gone, he
doesn't matter anymore, there is no damage still with us, etc is baloney.



We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?


I'm with Jim, what's the point in engaging with you when it's all been explained
to you ten times already, but you still come back, posing the same questions
all over again.

Don't you ever get tired of eating Greg's lunch? :-)

I have to give him credit where it's due, though. He doesn't mind being
wrong. In fact, he seems to enjoy it.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 12:39:57 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 3:07:37 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
" wrote in message
...
On Friday, March 19, 2021 at 1:54:17 PM UTC-4, Oliver George wrote:
https://www.infowars.com/posts/this-...-hoax-forever/

And you still cannot differentiate a credible source from pure crap.

Here are 12 important questions and answers before considering
getting
vaccinated:


Q: If I get vaccinated can I stop wearing a mask(s)?

Government: NO

Fine. Wearing a mask is not onerous.

Q: If I get vaccinated will the restaurants, bars, schools, fitness
clubs, hair salons, etc. reopen and will people be able to get back
to
work like
normal?

Government: NO

I've been working unvaccinated all year. I'll be happy for everybody
at my office to be vacinnated.

Q: If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?

Government: Maybe. We dont know exactly, but probably not.

That's wrong. The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer,
95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%.

Those are the numbers for avoiding serious
disease, not for getting infected.

That's wrong.
Nope, thats what the Phase 3 trials measured and thats
where those numbers came from. They havent measure
the effectiveness of preventing infection by the virus yet,
that measurement is being done now and we dont have
the numbers yet.
The effectiveness was measured by people being diagnosed
as having Covid, not for having serious disease.
Wrong, as always.

Just like always, just like Trump and Fretwell. Get
it wrong and then just keep doubling down on it.

We'll see...

I read the Pfizer trial document that was submitted to FDA for approval.

But clearly didnt understand it or even what a Phase 3 trial is about.

The effectiveness number was not based on "serious disease".
It was measured on how many of the people who
were vaccinated wound up DIAGNOSED with Covid,
regardless of the severity, compared to the control group.

Wrong, as always and that document didnt even say that.

It isnt even possible to diagnose who got covid because
the whole point of a vaccine is to get the body to produce
lots of antibodys so you cant even measure if the individual
has got covid when there are no symptoms.

It was ~95% effective in reducing the number diagnosed with Covid.

Wrong, as always.

Further, other studies, eg Israel have confirmed that.

But they arent the ones who produced that 95% number.
And even then, the Israeli data certainly suggest that the
Pfizer vaccine is effective at reducing transmission, but it isnt
possible to put a percentage on how effectively it does that.

It is possible to put a number on the percentage who get severe disease.

And if the metric is "serious Covid", then the effectiveness is even
higher.

Wrong, as always.

If the test subjects came down with Covid symptoms
they were examined by doctors and tested for Covid.

Pity about those who never had any symptoms.

They did not have to present with "serious disease"
to be counted, only symptomatic Covid.

Pity about those who never had any symptoms.

Wrong, as always. That may well be what your
media has told you, but its just plain wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccine#Efficacy

Thanks for confirming that you don't know WTF you're talking about.

We'll see...

From your own reference:

"The effectiveness of a new vaccine is defined by its efficacy
during clinical trials.[140] The efficacy is the risk of getting the
disease by vaccinated participants in the trial compared with
the risk of getting the disease by unvaccinated participants.

Thats a bleeding chunk shorthand from the entire section.

In efficacy calculations, symptomatic COVID-19 is generally
defined as having both a positive PCR test and at least one
or two of a defined list of COVID-19 symptoms, although
exact specifications varying between trials. "

Pity about those who have no symptoms. Those are clearly infected.

Exactly what I said.

Wrong, as always.

It doesn't say what you said, which is that
it's measured by reduction in "serious cases".

I said serious disease, not serious cases.

Further, if you look at the table, it says for the Moderna vaccine,
if the metric is "serious disease", then the efficacy is close to 100%.

But it doesnt say that the risk of infection is reduced by any percentage.

And you deleted the lancet article because it
blows your stupid claim right out of the water.

reams of your **** flushed where it belongs

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:05:36 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 02:23:12 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I get my first dose of Moderna today.

I got my first dose of Moderna last Tuesday. Sore muscle in the area for a
day or two, but very minor. It's now 4 days later and it's fully back to
normal.

I got Johnson & Johnson 16 days ago. No soreness or anything. I guess
I"m done!

I had bought a box on Entenmann cupcakes. Smaller but also filled and
better than Drakes and better than Hostess, IME (2 or 3 boxes) since
Hostess closed and reopened. I'd eaten 3 of the 8 before it occurred to
me they might be a nice present for the staff there. Individually
wrapped, which I didn't plan but it was good in case anyone was, you
know, germ-conscious. Only one woman turned it down, because she had an
apple, but the 5 others liked it, especially two of them who told me it
was really sweet of me.

On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 07:01:03 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 16:26:45 -0400, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:05:36 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 02:23:12 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I get my first dose of Moderna today.

I got my first dose of Moderna last Tuesday. Sore muscle in the area for a
day or two, but very minor. It's now 4 days later and it's fully back to
normal.

I got Johnson & Johnson 16 days ago. No soreness or anything. I guess
I"m done!

I had bought a box on Entenmann cupcakes. Smaller but also filled and
better than Drakes and better than Hostess, IME (2 or 3 boxes) since
Hostess closed and reopened. I'd eaten 3 of the 8 before it occurred to
me they might be a nice present for the staff there. Individually
wrapped, which I didn't plan but it was good in case anyone was, you
know, germ-conscious. Only one woman turned it down, because she had an
apple, but the 5 others liked it, especially two of them who told me it
was really sweet of me.

At my facility, all of the workers were National Guard. I thanked some of
them for being there but they gave me a look that said they didn't have a
choice. I should have brought cupcakes.

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 23:22:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:52 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:58:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2021 3:39 PM, wrote:


If you can't attack the message, shoot the messenger.
Why didn't you tell us what part was wrong?
I just saw Fauci tell Rand Paul all of those things the other day on
C-Span. (that is live congress TV, not some opinion network).


Must have watched a different episode. I saw Paul interrupting Fauci as
he tried to explain the reason and the varients that may or may not be
protected.

Rand Paul just wanted to show off and be a bully.

I saw Fauci telling us they don't know, over and over again about
everything.
Will they ever know enough to say it is 100% safe and will he get away
from the hysteria before then?
At a certain point we need the information to take a calculated risk
and isn't life just a series of calculated risks anyway?
We are quickly reaching the point that driving to the restaurant is
more dangerous than going in, mask or not.
The question Paul asked is, if your are vaccinated, why aren't you
safe and it is a good question. If not, why get the shot?


Every time Fauci tried to explain about the variants Paul cut him off.
He asked questions but did not want to hear answers, he wanted to make
his own statement.

https://tinyurl.com/336xnms7

Paul comes across as an arrogant politician that wants to show how smart
he is.

Paul was asking questions about studies that went against Fauci's
agenda.
Fauci was not responding to the questions asked. He just wanted to
conjecture about variants that have not really been studied.
"I don't know" would be a better answer than simply expanding on worse
case scenarios without actually saying "the vaccine might be worthless
on these strains".
That is what he implied tho.

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 02:12:03 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:54:19 -0400,
wrote:


If I don't get vaccinated, am I more likely to kill some of my family
and friends?

Yes. At least the ones too stupid to have gotten vaccinated.


You missed the point Fauci and his gang said. The vaccine is not
proven to reduce transmission so you are not protecting others.

You have a pretty obvious mistake here. All you can say is, "The vaccine
is not proven to reduce transmission so IT IS NOT PROVEN THAT you are
protecting others." I don't have to explain why this sentence is
correct, right?


Read that in the context of the thread.

Further, there is quite a bit of evidence from israel that Pfizer does
reduce transmission, and Moderna is basically the same as Pfizer, so
that's another mistake.

Tell Fauci. He didn't get that memo.


Cindy just said this about it protecting you.

"The effectiveness of the Moderna is 94.1%; Pfizer, 95%,
Johnson & Johnson, 66%."

Since the survival rate of unvaccinated people is 99.7% or so those
numbers are somewhat un reassuring.

Scott is right. If you're comparing 94.1, 95, and 99.7, you shouldn't
be. They represent two different things that are independent of each
other.

OK here is another number
"Scientists and researchers are constantly tracking infections and
recoveries. But they have data only on confirmed cases, so they cant
count people who dont get COVID-19 tests. Experts also dont have
information about the outcome of every infection. However, early
estimates predict that the overall COVID-19 recovery rate is between
97% and 99.75%."
https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-recovery-overview#1





I am doing the Pfizer Sunday but mostly because it was free and easy.
I am not convinced it is going to improve my life much if I still need
to wear a mask and avoid seeing people according to the government.

That's the thing so many people don't appreciate. You're not sick now
and if you don't get sick in the next 2 years, you probably won't know
-- I don't know how you could know -- if it's because you didn't meet
anyone with Corona, you did but you wouldn't have caught it from him
anyhow, or you would have caught it but the vaccine saved you.

I have been far from a hermit. I am out running around pretty much
like normal for the last year, in an unlocked down state and if I got
it, I was asymptomatic. No I am not running scared like most of you. I
am getting the vaccine because it was easy at CVS, just like I said I
would do months ago when the vaccine was announced.
I was not willing to get in Black Friday lines or be "caller # 47" in
some call in contest.