Current tank is 23 years old, 40 gal., 33K BTU. Starting to see dripping from the top of the tank, insulation at top is wet, visible at the anode tube opening, Anode tube was never replaced. I assume it's time to replace the tank. Never had issues with insufficient hot water. So the question is, while probably sticking with a 40 gal tank, should I get a 34K or 40K BTU tank?

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm

On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 10:31:03 AM UTC-6, Stan wrote:
Current tank is 23 years old, 40 gal., 33K BTU. Starting to see dripping from the top of the tank, insulation at top is wet, visible at the anode tube opening, Anode tube was never replaced. I assume it's time to replace the tank. Never had issues with insufficient hot water. So the question is, while probably sticking with a 40 gal tank, should I get a 34K or 40K BTU tank?

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm
Common sense would say to stay with the 34k. Maybe add a water heater blanket
if the heater is in a cool spot. You might want to look at on demand or tankless water heaters.

On 2/6/2021 11:30 AM, Stan wrote:
Current tank is 23 years old, 40 gal., 33K BTU. Starting to see dripping
from the top of the tank, insulation at top is wet, visible at the anode
tube opening, Anode tube was never replaced. I assume it's time to
replace the tank.Â* Never had issues with insufficient hot water. So the
question is, while probably sticking with a 40 gal tank, should I get a
34K or 40K BTU tank?


At 23 years it is probably time.

If the present tank is working well no real reason to to go bigger. You
will get faster recovery time though, if that is a factor. If you live
in the north with colder water coming in it may be better.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Feb 2021 16:30:58 +0000, Stan
wrote:

Current tank is 23 years old, 40 gal., 33K BTU. Starting to see dripping from the top of the tank, insulation at top is wet, visible at the anode tube opening, Anode tube was never replaced. I assume it's time to replace the tank. Never had issues with insufficient hot water. So the question is, while probably sticking with a 40 gal tank, should I get a 34K or 40K BTU tank?

Any reason the current size is not enough?

I live alone in a house built for 3 or 4, and when the first one leaked,
I thought I'd get a smaller tank.

I take baths and continue to add a little hot water to make up for the
water getting cooler (or maybe like a frog, I just think it's cooler),
and by golly, with the smaller wh I would run out of hot water before my
30 minute bath was over. And it's a shallow one-person bathtub.

So when that wh failed, I went back to the original size.

Seems to me, it doesn't waste money to have a bigger wh because once you
heat the water it stays hot and youll use it eventually.

The only difference would be if bigger tanks radiated more to the
outside, and the difference in outside dimensions is proportional I
think to the 3/2 root of the volume. IOW if the tank were an enormous 8
times as big, the surface area would be 4 times as big If it's only 10%
bigger, the surface would be between 4 and 5% bigger. And my tank isn't
warm to the touch anyhow, so it must not be radiating much. (Plus of
course the radiated heat warms my basement, which is never hot, but
might not be cold even without the radiation.)

The other difference would be went you went away for more than a short
while and turned off the WH. Then all the water cools off and the power
you had used to heat it becomes wasted.

But other than that, I don't see why it would cost any more to run a big
water heater than a small one, so get a big one.


I once filled the tub, then scooped out the water measuring how big the
tub is, but I forget what I learned. ;-(

On 2/6/2021 1:10 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/6/2021 11:30 AM, Stan wrote:
Current tank is 23 years old, 40 gal., 33K BTU. Starting to see
dripping from the top of the tank, insulation at top is wet, visible
at the anode tube opening, Anode tube was never replaced. I assume
it's time to replace the tank.Â* Never had issues with insufficient hot
water. So the question is, while probably sticking with a 40 gal tank,
should I get a 34K or 40K BTU tank?


At 23 years it is probably time.

If the present tank is working well no real reason to to go bigger.Â* You
will get faster recovery time though, if that is a factor.Â* If you live
in the north with colder water coming in it may be better.

This. If you didn't have a heat or delivery problem with the old, then
no need to update. It's just a matter or preference.

On 2/6/2021 12:51 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm
Common sense would say to stay with the 34k. Maybe add a water heater blanket
if the heater is in a cool spot. You might want to look at on demand or tankless water heaters.


If considering an "on demand" heater do the math. I don't know what my
bill for just heating water is, but my gas bill for the dryer, grilling,
cooking and hot water is $10 to $12 a month. No way to justify the cost
of equipment.

OTOH, a friend has a vacation home that is unoccupied for long periods
so instead of keeping 40 gallons hot for weeks at a time the demand
makes sense.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Feb 2021 15:02:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/6/2021 12:51 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm
Common sense would say to stay with the 34k. Maybe add a water heater blanket
if the heater is in a cool spot. You might want to look at on demand or tankless water heaters.


If considering an "on demand" heater do the math. I don't know what my
bill for just heating water is, but my gas bill for the dryer, grilling,
cooking and hot water is $10 to $12 a month. No way to justify the cost
of equipment.

I've thought of it so that I wouldn't have to wait a long time upstairs
for hot water. Too much effort to do it myself and too much money for a
cheapskate like me to pay. Some day I should time it and see how long I
really have to wait.

OTOH, a friend has a vacation home that is unoccupied for long periods
so instead of keeping 40 gallons hot for weeks at a time the demand
makes sense.

On 2/6/2021 10:33 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Feb 2021 15:02:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/6/2021 12:51 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm
Common sense would say to stay with the 34k. Maybe add a water heater blanket
if the heater is in a cool spot. You might want to look at on demand or tankless water heaters.


If considering an "on demand" heater do the math. I don't know what my
bill for just heating water is, but my gas bill for the dryer, grilling,
cooking and hot water is $10 to $12 a month. No way to justify the cost
of equipment.

I've thought of it so that I wouldn't have to wait a long time upstairs
for hot water. Too much effort to do it myself and too much money for a
cheapskate like me to pay. Some day I should time it and see how long I
really have to wait.


The heater itself is from $600 to $1400 depending on size. Then you
either have to pipe gas and a vent or enough wire to handle at least
18kW for a small one, 27kW for a larger one.

On Sat, 06 Feb 2021 22:33:15 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Feb 2021 15:02:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/6/2021 12:51 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm
Common sense would say to stay with the 34k. Maybe add a water heater blanket
if the heater is in a cool spot. You might want to look at on demand or tankless water heaters.


If considering an "on demand" heater do the math. I don't know what my
bill for just heating water is, but my gas bill for the dryer, grilling,
cooking and hot water is $10 to $12 a month. No way to justify the cost
of equipment.

I've thought of it so that I wouldn't have to wait a long time upstairs
for hot water. Too much effort to do it myself and too much money for a
cheapskate like me to pay. Some day I should time it and see how long I
really have to wait.

If the "instant" heater is in roughly the same place as the present
water heater, the time it takes for hot water to get upstairs is not
going to change. You can't get much more instant that 40 gallons of
hot water just sitting there waiting for you to open the valve.
OTOH if wasting energy doesn't bother you, you could put in a loop and
let it thermal siphon. If the heater is in the basement you don't need
a pump, gravity works fine.
We had that in my old 1954 house when gas was cheap.
They just snaked a piece of 3/8 copper tubing up to the bathroom
upstairs that was also on the same wet wall as the kitchen below and
we had instant hot water in both places. You hook the copper tube to
the bottom of the tank and the upper most hot water pipe.

On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 22:58:10 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/6/2021 10:33 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Feb 2021 15:02:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/6/2021 12:51 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm
Common sense would say to stay with the 34k. Maybe add a water heater blanket
if the heater is in a cool spot. You might want to look at on demand or tankless water heaters.


If considering an "on demand" heater do the math. I don't know what my
bill for just heating water is, but my gas bill for the dryer, grilling,
cooking and hot water is $10 to $12 a month. No way to justify the cost
of equipment.

I've thought of it so that I wouldn't have to wait a long time upstairs
for hot water. Too much effort to do it myself and too much money for a
cheapskate like me to pay. Some day I should time it and see how long I
really have to wait.


The heater itself is from $600 to $1400 depending on size. Then you
either have to pipe gas and a vent or enough wire to handle at least
18kW for a small one, 27kW for a larger one.

Assuming a 60 degree delta you can make about 2GPM with 18kw if my
figures are right. That might work for a water saver shower head
assuming you are going 2 parts hot and 1 part cold and 120 degree
water (up from 60). My BIL had 3 propane units in his house but I am
not sure how big they are.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Feb 2021 22:58:10 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/6/2021 10:33 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Feb 2021 15:02:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/6/2021 12:51 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm
Common sense would say to stay with the 34k. Maybe add a water heater blanket
if the heater is in a cool spot. You might want to look at on demand or tankless water heaters.


If considering an "on demand" heater do the math. I don't know what my
bill for just heating water is, but my gas bill for the dryer, grilling,
cooking and hot water is $10 to $12 a month. No way to justify the cost
of equipment.

I've thought of it so that I wouldn't have to wait a long time upstairs
for hot water. Too much effort to do it myself and too much money for a
cheapskate like me to pay. Some day I should time it and see how long I
really have to wait.


The heater itself is from $600 to $1400 depending on size. Then you
either have to pipe gas and a vent or enough wire to handle at least
18kW for a small one, 27kW for a larger one.

There you go. No wonder it's expensive and no wonder I'm not ready to
do it myself.

I decided now was the time to see how long it takes to get hot now.
Slid the time from my Android phone to the middle, where it gives
seconds, and turned on the water. After 10 seconds, the phone screen
went black and when I got it lit up again, the clock with seconds was
gone. I tried everything but couldn't get it back, and the water never
got hot. Oh, no, no hot water!!!!

Then I realized I'd turned on the cold water. Tried again with the
clock app. 20 seconds. That's all. It's really not worth spending
$1000 to save 20 seconds twice a day, plus it takes up space under the
sink and requires some maintenance every several years.

When I was 10, we moved to a ranch-style house and the water heater was
at the far end from the bathroom and I had to wait for hot water. But
in the dorm and then NY apartment buildings, I didn't have to wait at
all. Then I moved here and the first thing I did is insulate the hot
water pipe to the upstairs bathroom, in the basement. Since I only use
it every 12 hours, insulation didn't help at all.

But tonight settles it. No more plans for instant hot water.

On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 3:02:48 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/6/2021 12:51 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm
Common sense would say to stay with the 34k. Maybe add a water heater blanket
if the heater is in a cool spot. You might want to look at on demand or tankless water heaters.

If considering an "on demand" heater do the math. I don't know what my
bill for just heating water is, but my gas bill for the dryer, grilling,
cooking and hot water is $10 to $12 a month. No way to justify the cost
of equipment.

OTOH, a friend has a vacation home that is unoccupied for long periods
so instead of keeping 40 gallons hot for weeks at a time the demand
makes sense.

Even then if a tank WH is left on all the time, it will take a long time to recover
the increased cost of a tankless. Typically going from tank to tankless may
require running new gas line, possibly from the meter, to meet the increased
demand and if so, that isn't cheap. Like you said, gas bill here is in the $16
range in summer and that's the tank WH and some outdoor gas grilling.
That's a pilot type WH and with substantial water used. So what can the
standby, no usage monthly amount be? Must be under $10. You might
never recover the cost of switching to tankless. If it was me, I think I could
live with the few bucks a month or just turning it off when not at the vacation
house and waiting an hour for hot water.

A good fit for a tankless might be a vacation rental property where renters
expect hot water when they get there and where if it's a beach house, etc
there could be a lot of people showering, doing wash, etc in short periods.

On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 10:33:24 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Feb 2021 15:02:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/6/2021 12:51 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm
Common sense would say to stay with the 34k. Maybe add a water heater blanket
if the heater is in a cool spot. You might want to look at on demand or tankless water heaters.


If considering an "on demand" heater do the math. I don't know what my
bill for just heating water is, but my gas bill for the dryer, grilling,
cooking and hot water is $10 to $12 a month. No way to justify the cost
of equipment.
I've thought of it so that I wouldn't have to wait a long time upstairs
for hot water. Too much effort to do it myself and too much money for a
cheapskate like me to pay. Some day I should time it and see how long I
really have to wait.


A recirculating pump is another, much lower cost option if the issue is
getting hot water faster.

On 2/7/2021 7:43 AM, trader_4 wrote:


A good fit for a tankless might be a vacation rental property where renters
expect hot water when they get there and where if it's a beach house, etc
there could be a lot of people showering, doing wash, etc in short periods.


That is where my friend has one in Ocean City. In summer, weekends may
be 5 adults and 3 kids. Weekdays, one or zero. The other 6 months it
can be empty for weeks and they she goes for a couple of days and empty
again.

I find it works well in the shower because I turn the water on full and
it easily keeps up. At the sink, you have to turn the water on enough
for good flow to start the heater. Not a big deal as I only visit a
week here and there.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 07 Feb 2021 00:13:15 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Feb 2021 22:33:15 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Feb 2021 15:02:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/6/2021 12:51 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm
Common sense would say to stay with the 34k. Maybe add a water heater blanket
if the heater is in a cool spot. You might want to look at on demand or tankless water heaters.


If considering an "on demand" heater do the math. I don't know what my
bill for just heating water is, but my gas bill for the dryer, grilling,
cooking and hot water is $10 to $12 a month. No way to justify the cost
of equipment.

I've thought of it so that I wouldn't have to wait a long time upstairs
for hot water. Too much effort to do it myself and too much money for a
cheapskate like me to pay. Some day I should time it and see how long I
really have to wait.

If the "instant" heater is in roughly the same place as the present
water heater, the time it takes for hot water to get upstairs is not
going to change.

Well sure. That's obvious. Does anyone do that?

I would have put it under the bathroom sink.

You can't get much more instant that 40 gallons of
hot water just sitting there waiting for you to open the valve.
OTOH if wasting energy doesn't bother you, you could put in a loop and

It does bother me.

let it thermal siphon. If the heater is in the basement you don't need
a pump, gravity works fine.
We had that in my old 1954 house when gas was cheap.
They just snaked a piece of 3/8 copper tubing up to the bathroom
upstairs that was also on the same wet wall as the kitchen below and
we had instant hot water in both places. You hook the copper tube to
the bottom of the tank and the upper most hot water pipe.

V. interesting.

On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 12:36:01 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 07 Feb 2021 00:13:15 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Feb 2021 22:33:15 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Feb 2021 15:02:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/6/2021 12:51 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm
Common sense would say to stay with the 34k. Maybe add a water heater blanket
if the heater is in a cool spot. You might want to look at on demand or tankless water heaters.


If considering an "on demand" heater do the math. I don't know what my
bill for just heating water is, but my gas bill for the dryer, grilling,
cooking and hot water is $10 to $12 a month. No way to justify the cost
of equipment.

I've thought of it so that I wouldn't have to wait a long time upstairs
for hot water. Too much effort to do it myself and too much money for a
cheapskate like me to pay. Some day I should time it and see how long I
really have to wait.

If the "instant" heater is in roughly the same place as the present
water heater, the time it takes for hot water to get upstairs is not
going to change.
Well sure. That's obvious. Does anyone do that?

Most installations, for obvious reasons.



I would have put it under the bathroom sink.

You could put a small one for the sink there, the thread was about
using one to replace a tank type. Even to supply a whole bathroom
with shower, I don't think it's going to be practical tp put it under the sink,
that it would fit, etc. Most of these are gas too, which adds to the
problems. Even with electric, you're going to need a new large capacity
circuit run. If you want to solve a sink problem, you can get a small tank
type to put under the sink. But that isn't the solution to the general problem.

On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 00:35:51 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 07 Feb 2021 00:13:15 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Feb 2021 22:33:15 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 6 Feb 2021 15:02:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/6/2021 12:51 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-3092984-.htm
Common sense would say to stay with the 34k. Maybe add a water heater blanket
if the heater is in a cool spot. You might want to look at on demand or tankless water heaters.


If considering an "on demand" heater do the math. I don't know what my
bill for just heating water is, but my gas bill for the dryer, grilling,
cooking and hot water is $10 to $12 a month. No way to justify the cost
of equipment.

I've thought of it so that I wouldn't have to wait a long time upstairs
for hot water. Too much effort to do it myself and too much money for a
cheapskate like me to pay. Some day I should time it and see how long I
really have to wait.

If the "instant" heater is in roughly the same place as the present
water heater, the time it takes for hot water to get upstairs is not
going to change.

Well sure. That's obvious. Does anyone do that?

I would have put it under the bathroom sink.

Not the ones I have seen. You could get one that provided enough water
to wash your hands but that won't serve the shower and it still needs
a pretty fat wire feeding it. That is not going to go on your 20a
bathroom circuit. The units my BIL had are about 2 feet long and a
foot wide and being gas, they needed to be vented.

You can't get much more instant that 40 gallons of
hot water just sitting there waiting for you to open the valve.
OTOH if wasting energy doesn't bother you, you could put in a loop and

It does bother me.

let it thermal siphon. If the heater is in the basement you don't need
a pump, gravity works fine.
We had that in my old 1954 house when gas was cheap.
They just snaked a piece of 3/8 copper tubing up to the bathroom
upstairs that was also on the same wet wall as the kitchen below and
we had instant hot water in both places. You hook the copper tube to
the bottom of the tank and the upper most hot water pipe.

V. interesting.

On Sunday, February 7, 2021 at 9:47:07 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/7/2021 7:43 AM, trader_4 wrote:


A good fit for a tankless might be a vacation rental property where renters
expect hot water when they get there and where if it's a beach house, etc
there could be a lot of people showering, doing wash, etc in short periods.

That is where my friend has one in Ocean City. In summer, weekends may
be 5 adults and 3 kids.

In a word? Lazy. She should just take her lazy rear out of bed four or five minutes early and run the hot water spigot some more.

On 2/14/2021 8:51 AM, bruce bowser wrote:
On Sunday, February 7, 2021 at 9:47:07 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/7/2021 7:43 AM, trader_4 wrote:


A good fit for a tankless might be a vacation rental property where renters
expect hot water when they get there and where if it's a beach house, etc
there could be a lot of people showering, doing wash, etc in short periods.

That is where my friend has one in Ocean City. In summer, weekends may
be 5 adults and 3 kids.

In a word? Lazy. She should just take her lazy rear out of bed four or five minutes early and run the hot water spigot some more.


Huh? What would that do? The hot water comes on quickly for a shower
and takes just a short time at the sink. Produces enough that I can
shower all day if I wanted to. Getting out of bed earlier would make no
difference. Flip the faucet on when you pee and it will be hot when
needed.

On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 9:32:11 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/14/2021 8:51 AM, bruce bowser wrote:
On Sunday, February 7, 2021 at 9:47:07 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/7/2021 7:43 AM, trader_4 wrote:


A good fit for a tankless might be a vacation rental property where renters
expect hot water when they get there and where if it's a beach house, etc
there could be a lot of people showering, doing wash, etc in short periods.

That is where my friend has one in Ocean City. In summer, weekends may
be 5 adults and 3 kids.

In a word? Lazy. She should just take her lazy rear out of bed four or five minutes early and run the hot water spigot some more.

Huh? What would that do? The hot water comes on quickly for a shower
and takes just a short time at the sink. Produces enough that I can
shower all day if I wanted to. Getting out of bed earlier would make no
difference. Flip the faucet on when you pee and it will be hot when
needed.

One solution would be to install a recirculating pump that is activated by
a motion sensor. The only downside to that is that it then fills the cold water
pipe on the entire run up with tepid hot water. So if a kitchen sink is
involved or you want to pull a glass of water from some other sink to drink,
instead of fresh cool water you may get either tepid or hot water that has
cooled and isn't the best tasting. I thought about it at times, but not that
big of a deal that it was worth doing.