My basement is one third dirt. I recently put in a battery backup sump pump but had to dig a new hole. Do I fill in the old hole?

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On Friday, December 25, 2020 at 10:31:25 AM UTC-5, Wpellis wrote:
My basement is one third dirt. I recently put in a battery backup sump pump but had to dig a new hole. Do I fill in the old hole?

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Not much to go on. Why the new hole? Typically a sump pump pit isn't just a hole. There
are drain pipes laid around the perimeter of the foundation that lead to it, so it can
collect water across the basement, not just in one localized spot.

I had to put in a new hole because the original hole was very small and wouldn't hold the sump pump and the battery backup sump.

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On 12/25/2020 10:01 AM, Wpellis wrote:
I had to put in a new hole because the original hole was very small and
wouldn't hold the sump pump and the battery backup sump.


Why did you not just dig out the old one? Did you check it for collector
pipes coming into it below the water line?

Question still is are there any pipes or drains that feed into the old hole ? How did water fill the old sump ?

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It's just a hole in the floor but closer to the dirt part so fills quickly. We put the new hole closer to the other side of the house so the water going out wouldn't come back against the house but drain down an incline. It works beautifully but for the water overflowing from the old hole. Should I fill it or just try to cut a groove thru the cement to drain it?

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On 12/25/2020 12:01 PM, Wpellis wrote:
It's just a hole in the floor but closer to the dirt part so fills
quickly. We put the new hole closer to the other side of the house so
the water going out wouldn't come back against the house but drain down
an incline. It works beautifully but for the water overflowing from the
old hole. Should I fill it or just try to cut a groove thru the cement
to drain it?


Clearly, the old hole is properly constructed to catch the water that
needs to be expelled. Put the old pump back in it and pipe it to where
you want it to go. Put the battery pump in the new hole, and it will
catch the water flowing from the old hole when the power is out after it
flows across your floor and messes it all up.

On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 12:32:17 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/25/2020 12:01 PM, Wpellis wrote:
It's just a hole in the floor but closer to the dirt part so fills
quickly. We put the new hole closer to the other side of the house so
the water going out wouldn't come back against the house but drain down
an incline. It works beautifully but for the water overflowing from the
old hole. Should I fill it or just try to cut a groove thru the cement
to drain it?


Clearly, the old hole is properly constructed to catch the water that
needs to be expelled. Put the old pump back in it and pipe it to where
you want it to go. Put the battery pump in the new hole, and it will
catch the water flowing from the old hole when the power is out after it
flows across your floor and messes it all up.


Trench the old hole into the new hole across the
cellar floor ... I've seen it done in a very old house once
for the outlet drainage - grade "improvements" outside
made the location of the old sump hole very difficult .
John T.

On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 16:04:12 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 12:32:17 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/25/2020 12:01 PM, Wpellis wrote:
It's just a hole in the floor but closer to the dirt part so fills
quickly. We put the new hole closer to the other side of the house so
the water going out wouldn't come back against the house but drain down
an incline. It works beautifully but for the water overflowing from the
old hole. Should I fill it or just try to cut a groove thru the cement
to drain it?


Clearly, the old hole is properly constructed to catch the water that
needs to be expelled. Put the old pump back in it and pipe it to where
you want it to go. Put the battery pump in the new hole, and it will
catch the water flowing from the old hole when the power is out after it
flows across your floor and messes it all up.


Trench the old hole into the new hole across the
cellar floor ... I've seen it done in a very old house once
for the outlet drainage - grade "improvements" outside
made the location of the old sump hole very difficult .
John T.
I woudn't own a house that "needed" a sump pump. New code here
requires all new houses be equipped with one whether required or not.
This house sits high, in sand. Drainage is fefinitely not a problem.
My first houde was the same - high and dry -frainage was never a
problem.
A few years ago I found my "dream house". Bungalow - Double garage -
with full basement under the garage - even had an "access port" that
if I didn't know any beter I would have called a "service pit" - and
the garage was high enough I could have installed a hoist. Walk down
access to the basement (would have been a perfect "shop") but the
house was built into the side of a hill and it was set about 3 feet
too low into the lot. The basement floor was about 2 feet lower than
the storm drain on the street and the sump / drainage system was less
than adequately designed. The water table was between 6 inches above
the basement floor and 6 inches below the floor depending on the
season so the floors were always damp, at best and the sump pump ran
about 23 3/4 hours a day from Feb to Nov.
Rel;uctantly I walked away from it - even at $300,000. (That was just
before the prices started to go nuts - likely $875,000 or more today)

In article ,
says...
I woudn't own a house that "needed" a sump pump. New code here
requires all new houses be equipped with one whether required or not.
This house sits high, in sand. Drainage is fefinitely not a problem.
My first houde was the same - high and dry -frainage was never a
problem.



There are lots of homes built where they should not be. Then they flood
out and people cry about it. My first home was near the top of a hill
and did not have a basement so did not have to worry about water.

I bought another house years later. At the back of the property about
100 feet from the house is a stream that is normally about 2 feet wide
and has less than a foot of water in it. Then it is flat for about 30
feet and starts up hill to the house. The house is about 15 or 20 feet
above the stream so I do not worry about the water getting up that high
and thought the stream would flood the first 20 or so feet so did not
let that be a deal killer. Sure enough it has flooded that 20 feet
about 3 or 4 times each year. It usually goes down in a few hours after
the rain stops.

Sometimes the code is written with things that many do not need, but
just a blanket code.

Ralph Mowery writes:

In article ,
says...
I woudn't own a house that "needed" a sump pump. New code here
requires all new houses be equipped with one whether required or not.
This house sits high, in sand. Drainage is fefinitely not a problem.
My first houde was the same - high and dry -frainage was never a
problem.

There are lots of homes built where they should not be. Then they flood
out and people cry about it. My first home was near the top of a hill
and did not have a basement so did not have to worry about water.

I bought another house years later. At the back of the property about
100 feet from the house is a stream that is normally about 2 feet wide
and has less than a foot of water in it. Then it is flat for about 30
feet and starts up hill to the house. The house is about 15 or 20 feet
above the stream so I do not worry about the water getting up that high
and thought the stream would flood the first 20 or so feet so did not
let that be a deal killer. Sure enough it has flooded that 20 feet
about 3 or 4 times each year. It usually goes down in a few hours after
the rain stops.

Sometimes the code is written with things that many do not need, but
just a blanket code.

I'm very near the top of a hill, but still used to get seepage into the
basement. I had to have a french drain put in. Then about 10 years ago
the underground streams must have changed course. Now I see no more
than an inch of water at the bottom of the sump pump hole and the pump
almost never runs.

Clay soil.

The message is, it's hard to be sure you're going to be dry.

--
Dan Espen

On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 16:56:46 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 16:04:12 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 12:32:17 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/25/2020 12:01 PM, Wpellis wrote:
It's just a hole in the floor but closer to the dirt part so fills
quickly. We put the new hole closer to the other side of the house so
the water going out wouldn't come back against the house but drain down
an incline. It works beautifully but for the water overflowing from the
old hole. Should I fill it or just try to cut a groove thru the cement
to drain it?


Clearly, the old hole is properly constructed to catch the water that
needs to be expelled. Put the old pump back in it and pipe it to where
you want it to go. Put the battery pump in the new hole, and it will
catch the water flowing from the old hole when the power is out after it
flows across your floor and messes it all up.


Trench the old hole into the new hole across the
cellar floor ... I've seen it done in a very old house once
for the outlet drainage - grade "improvements" outside
made the location of the old sump hole very difficult .
John T.
I woudn't own a house that "needed" a sump pump. New code here
requires all new houses be equipped with one whether required or not.
This house sits high, in sand. Drainage is fefinitely not a problem.
My first houde was the same - high and dry -frainage was never a
problem.
A few years ago I found my "dream house". Bungalow - Double garage -
with full basement under the garage - even had an "access port" that
if I didn't know any beter I would have called a "service pit" - and
the garage was high enough I could have installed a hoist. Walk down
access to the basement (would have been a perfect "shop") but the
house was built into the side of a hill and it was set about 3 feet
too low into the lot. The basement floor was about 2 feet lower than
the storm drain on the street and the sump / drainage system was less
than adequately designed. The water table was between 6 inches above
the basement floor and 6 inches below the floor depending on the
season so the floors were always damp, at best and the sump pump ran
about 23 3/4 hours a day from Feb to Nov.
Rel;uctantly I walked away from it - even at $300,000. (That was just
before the prices started to go nuts - likely $875,000 or more today)

I witnessed a somewhat similar situation when I lived in Montana. A
coworker bought a house that was ideal for him, except that the basement
regularly flooded. Faced with a situation where he could dig a drainage
system and/or add a sump pump, he took a different approach. He simply had
the house lifted about 4-5 feet. He brought the foundation up, set the
house back down, and raised the basement floor, then he landscaped to make
it look like it had always been that way. Before, part of the yard sloped
toward the house, but after, it all sloped away.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Dec 2020 17:21:51 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...
I woudn't own a house that "needed" a sump pump. New code here
requires all new houses be equipped with one whether required or not.
This house sits high, in sand. Drainage is fefinitely not a problem.
My first houde was the same - high and dry -frainage was never a
problem.

This doesn't really help the OP.


There are lots of homes built where they should not be. Then they flood
out and people cry about it. My first home was near the top of a hill
and did not have a basement so did not have to worry about water.

I bought another house years later. At the back of the property about
100 feet from the house is a stream that is normally about 2 feet wide
and has less than a foot of water in it.

Very much like my situation, except it's 10 feet wide with less than a
foot of water.

Then it is flat for about 30
feet and starts up hill to the house.

Yes, 30 feet.

The house is about 15 or 20 feet
above the stream

Only about 10 feet for me.

so I do not worry about the water getting up that high
and thought the stream would flood the first 20 or so feet so did not
let that be a deal killer.

I didn't even think about the problem. From the day I looked at it
until the first time it flooded! I do have a basement. I get less than
an inch in the basement, but without several boxes that sit on the
floor, it would be over an inch. They soak up a lot. Once they've been
wet, they probalby can't be moved without falling apart, so I don't move
them.

Sure enough it has flooded that 20 feet
about 3 or 4 times each year. It usually goes down in a few hours after
the rain stops.

For me, it's about 1 time a year.

I would think I could predict when it would flood by how much it has
rained and how much it rains, but it doesn't seem to to work that way.

Still, our situations are very similar.

Sometimes the code is written with things that many do not need, but
just a blanket code.

My neighbors with basements that are not below grade (because the front
of the house is on a hill but not the back, don't have sump pumps.

But mine doesn't flood because the sump pump is not good. That's only
happened once in 37 years.

It's because the stream overflows the manhole of the sewer that was laid
parallel to the stream. They should have made it higher. And it backs
up through the laundry sink. It took me a few times to learn how to
plug the sink so the water backing up would not unplug it.

Of the 100 houses in my n'hood, 4 of us face this issue, and every time
I get a new neighbor in those 4, I warn them. But they usually don't
take it seriously until the first flood.

I love living next to the stream, despite this problem.

There is an island in it that I tried to name after myself in google
maps, but they wanted supporting information. Drat.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 25 Dec 2020 12:32:17 -0800, Bob F
wrote:

On 12/25/2020 12:01 PM, Wpellis wrote:
It's just a hole in the floor but closer to the dirt part so fills
quickly. We put the new hole closer to the other side of the house so
the water going out wouldn't come back against the house but drain down
an incline. It works beautifully but for the water overflowing from the
old hole. Should I fill it or just try to cut a groove thru the cement
to drain it?


Clearly, the old hole is properly constructed to catch the water that
needs to be expelled. Put the old pump back in it and pipe it to where

Yes, exactly.

you want it to go. Put the battery pump in the new hole, and it will
catch the water flowing from the old hole when the power is out after it
flows across your floor and messes it all up.

Yes, exacatly, or connect with a trench like Bob F says.

On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 22:21:25 -0600, Jim Joyce wrote:

On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 16:56:46 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 16:04:12 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 12:32:17 -0800, Bob F wrote:

On 12/25/2020 12:01 PM, Wpellis wrote:
It's just a hole in the floor but closer to the dirt part so fills
quickly. We put the new hole closer to the other side of the house so
the water going out wouldn't come back against the house but drain down
an incline. It works beautifully but for the water overflowing from the
old hole. Should I fill it or just try to cut a groove thru the cement
to drain it?


Clearly, the old hole is properly constructed to catch the water that
needs to be expelled. Put the old pump back in it and pipe it to where
you want it to go. Put the battery pump in the new hole, and it will
catch the water flowing from the old hole when the power is out after it
flows across your floor and messes it all up.


Trench the old hole into the new hole across the
cellar floor ... I've seen it done in a very old house once
for the outlet drainage - grade "improvements" outside
made the location of the old sump hole very difficult .
John T.
I woudn't own a house that "needed" a sump pump. New code here
requires all new houses be equipped with one whether required or not.
This house sits high, in sand. Drainage is fefinitely not a problem.
My first houde was the same - high and dry -frainage was never a
problem.
A few years ago I found my "dream house". Bungalow - Double garage -
with full basement under the garage - even had an "access port" that
if I didn't know any beter I would have called a "service pit" - and
the garage was high enough I could have installed a hoist. Walk down
access to the basement (would have been a perfect "shop") but the
house was built into the side of a hill and it was set about 3 feet
too low into the lot. The basement floor was about 2 feet lower than
the storm drain on the street and the sump / drainage system was less
than adequately designed. The water table was between 6 inches above
the basement floor and 6 inches below the floor depending on the
season so the floors were always damp, at best and the sump pump ran
about 23 3/4 hours a day from Feb to Nov.
Rel;uctantly I walked away from it - even at $300,000. (That was just
before the prices started to go nuts - likely $875,000 or more today)

I witnessed a somewhat similar situation when I lived in Montana. A
coworker bought a house that was ideal for him, except that the basement
regularly flooded. Faced with a situation where he could dig a drainage
system and/or add a sump pump, he took a different approach. He simply had
the house lifted about 4-5 feet. He brought the foundation up, set the
house back down, and raised the basement floor, then he landscaped to make
it look like it had always been that way. Before, part of the yard sloped
toward the house, but after, it all sloped away.

Good move. My house has a full basement foundation so I couldn't do that.
I was here ten years before the basement first flooded with about a foot of water.
A couple times since then it's flooded with up to 6". About 6 years ago I put in 2 1HP
sump pumps, connected to a 3" header with reducing els. Haven't had water in the basement
since but a few instances where the water pouring into the sump almost overcame the 2
pumps.

On 12/25/2020 1:01 PM, Wpellis wrote:
I had to put in a new hole because the original hole was very small and
wouldn't hold the sump pump and the battery backup sump.


Fill it with the dirt you took out of the other hole.