Specify/Install Sump Pit and Sump Pump

Greetings,

I have (of necessity) just discovered alt.home.repair. It looks
very interesting.

I inhabit a small brick bungalow, built in 1954, poured-concrete
foundation, about 800 square feet. Perhaps twice a year we
get hard/fast rains (i.e. 3" in 12 hours) which cause a
hydrostatic water problem in the basement. The water "pushes
up" from underneath the basement floor.

I've a spare bedroom down there. And a workshop. And
utilities and storage, etc, and several rugs. Need to
eliminate the water problem.

I need to specify/install both a sump pit and a sump pump. I am
modestly competent (not expert) at such DIY projects.

I've scoured the net and talked to numerous home-improvement
type folks and about all of substance I've found is:

http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/rm_plumbing...sposal/article
/0,1797,HGTV_3773_1385954,00.html

but it lacks all manner of detail. It also suggests a
5 gal. bucket for a pit lining, but I'm told that
submersible pumps require more clearance for the switch.

Questions:

1.) How critical is the location of the pit? I've some
limitations and am thinking of locating it very
close to the stack and drain.
2.) How can I cut the hole for the pit? I drilled a 1/2"
hole in the basement floor: the concrete appears to
be about 2" thick. For all I know, if I went after
it with a sledge hammer, the floor could crack along
the length of the house. There should be 6" of gravel
fill on the outside edge of the pit lining? Another
6" under the lining? Etc, etc.
3.) Can I run the sump discharge to the stack (code permitting)?
To the drain? How?
4.) What make/model of pump? I estimate that the pump would
run for perhaps 36 hours/year or a bit less.
5.) What are the potential issues with the check valve?
One often has to drill a special hole to get them to
work properly? Thumbnail sketch of such issues?

As regards 4.) and 5.), I'm told that Little Giant makes
an inclusive pit-liner/sump ("Drain Pump Kit") unit. I see
Teel (#4RK74) and Zoeller (#2P778) units in the Grainger
catalog for around $225. They are not described as sump
pump systems but might work OK? Are these a good bet?

It's such a lite-duty application that I'm not above
adapting the 5-gal. plastic pickle bucket that's been sitting
in my garage for years grin. But is there a pump/switch
unit that will fit in the 10.5" diameter bottom of the
bucket?

Any/all help/suggestions would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:58:28 -0500, Speedy Jim wrote:

Replies in-line:

Puddin' Man wrote:

Specify/Install Sump Pit and Sump Pump

---snip----


Questions:

1.) How critical is the location of the pit? I've some
limitations and am thinking of locating it very
close to the stack and drain.

I think it's iffy that a bucket in a pit is going to
be effective in draining ground water coming under the
floor from god-knows-where. The lip of the bucket will
need to be below the concrete (unless you only plan to
drain whatever water appears on *top* of the concrete.

I should have mentioned that holes are to be drilled in the
pit liner. I thought this was SOP.

For instance, if the liner were 14" tall, I could start drilling
holes 4" from the top, and stop drilling 4" from the bottom.
The liner would then begin filling when the water level
was 10" below the top of the floor (about 8" below the
bottom).

But I can't find specs on any of this stuff ...

2.) How can I cut the hole for the pit? I drilled a 1/2"
hole in the basement floor: the concrete appears to
be about 2" thick. For all I know, if I went after
it with a sledge hammer, the floor could crack along
the length of the house. There should be 6" of gravel
fill on the outside edge of the pit lining? Another
6" under the lining? Etc, etc.

If you drill (swiss-cheese) the floor in the shape of the
bucket, you can easily sledge hammer the hole.

This occurred to me. Short of renting a $60/day wet concrete
saw, this may be the way to go.

3.) Can I run the sump discharge to the stack (code permitting)?
To the drain? How?

Ask your bldg inspector, but I say, "No!". Ground water
is not permitted into the sanitary sewer. If you do do it,
there are questions to be asked about a trap and vent and
check valve.

I live in a big, nasty city. Our rainwater and sewage systems
are integral. I've seen it done here. I'll ask an inspector anyway.

4.) What make/model of pump? I estimate that the pump would
run for perhaps 36 hours/year or a bit less.
5.) What are the potential issues with the check valve?
One often has to drill a special hole to get them to
work properly? Thumbnail sketch of such issues?

You can drill a small hole in the dischg pipe in the pit;
that will allow water to drain back.

You mean between the pump and the check valve?
Have you done this?

I don't understand this issue.

As regards 4.) and 5.), I'm told that Little Giant makes
an inclusive pit-liner/sump ("Drain Pump Kit") unit. I see
Teel (#4RK74) and Zoeller (#2P778) units in the Grainger
catalog for around $225. They are not described as sump
pump systems but might work OK? Are these a good bet?

It's such a lite-duty application that I'm not above
adapting the 5-gal. plastic pickle bucket that's been sitting
in my garage for years grin. But is there a pump/switch
unit that will fit in the 10.5" diameter bottom of the
bucket?

There *are* some small pumps which will fit in a pickle bucket.
They have a float which slides on a rod. True Valu has one.

This is a pedastal pump. Preferable to a submersable?

The big disadvantage of the small bucket is that the pump
will cycle frequently, shortening life. Frequent pump noise
may be irritating too.

You have installed pit/sump systems? What would you
recommend for an 800 sq. foot house that doesn't draw
much water??

Thanks,
Puddin'

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:58:28 -0500, Speedy Jim wrote:

Replies in-line:

Puddin' Man wrote:

Specify/Install Sump Pit and Sump Pump

---snip----


Questions:

1.) How critical is the location of the pit? I've some
limitations and am thinking of locating it very
close to the stack and drain.

I think it's iffy that a bucket in a pit is going to
be effective in draining ground water coming under the
floor from god-knows-where. The lip of the bucket will
need to be below the concrete (unless you only plan to
drain whatever water appears on *top* of the concrete.

I should have mentioned that holes are to be drilled in the
pit liner. I thought this was SOP.

For instance, if the liner were 14" tall, I could start drilling
holes 4" from the top, and stop drilling 4" from the bottom.
The liner would then begin filling when the water level
was 10" below the top of the floor (about 8" below the
bottom).

But I can't find specs on any of this stuff ...

2.) How can I cut the hole for the pit? I drilled a 1/2"
hole in the basement floor: the concrete appears to
be about 2" thick. For all I know, if I went after
it with a sledge hammer, the floor could crack along
the length of the house. There should be 6" of gravel
fill on the outside edge of the pit lining? Another
6" under the lining? Etc, etc.

If you drill (swiss-cheese) the floor in the shape of the
bucket, you can easily sledge hammer the hole.

This occurred to me. Short of renting a $60/day wet concrete
saw, this may be the way to go.

3.) Can I run the sump discharge to the stack (code permitting)?
To the drain? How?

Ask your bldg inspector, but I say, "No!". Ground water
is not permitted into the sanitary sewer. If you do do it,
there are questions to be asked about a trap and vent and
check valve.

I live in a big, nasty city. Our rainwater and sewage systems
are integral. I've seen it done here. I'll ask an inspector anyway.

4.) What make/model of pump? I estimate that the pump would
run for perhaps 36 hours/year or a bit less.
5.) What are the potential issues with the check valve?
One often has to drill a special hole to get them to
work properly? Thumbnail sketch of such issues?

You can drill a small hole in the dischg pipe in the pit;
that will allow water to drain back.

You mean between the pump and the check valve?
Have you done this?

I don't understand this issue.

As regards 4.) and 5.), I'm told that Little Giant makes
an inclusive pit-liner/sump ("Drain Pump Kit") unit. I see
Teel (#4RK74) and Zoeller (#2P778) units in the Grainger
catalog for around $225. They are not described as sump
pump systems but might work OK? Are these a good bet?

It's such a lite-duty application that I'm not above
adapting the 5-gal. plastic pickle bucket that's been sitting
in my garage for years grin. But is there a pump/switch
unit that will fit in the 10.5" diameter bottom of the
bucket?

There *are* some small pumps which will fit in a pickle bucket.
They have a float which slides on a rod. True Valu has one.

This is a pedastal pump. Preferable to a submersable?

The big disadvantage of the small bucket is that the pump
will cycle frequently, shortening life. Frequent pump noise
may be irritating too.

You have installed pit/sump systems? What would you
recommend for an 800 sq. foot house that doesn't draw
much water??

Thanks,
Puddin'

Puddin' Man wrote:

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:58:28 -0500, Speedy Jim wrote:

Replies in-line:

Puddin' Man wrote:

Specify/Install Sump Pit and Sump Pump

---snip----


Questions:

1.) How critical is the location of the pit? I've some
limitations and am thinking of locating it very
close to the stack and drain.

I think it's iffy that a bucket in a pit is going to
be effective in draining ground water coming under the
floor from god-knows-where. The lip of the bucket will
need to be below the concrete (unless you only plan to
drain whatever water appears on *top* of the concrete.

I should have mentioned that holes are to be drilled in the
pit liner. I thought this was SOP.

For instance, if the liner were 14" tall, I could start drilling
holes 4" from the top, and stop drilling 4" from the bottom.
The liner would then begin filling when the water level
was 10" below the top of the floor (about 8" below the
bottom).

But I can't find specs on any of this stuff ...


Don't know of spcs for this.
I was concerned about how the ground water has to migrate
from where it comes up over to where the sump will be
(picture the flow under the concrete floor).

2.) How can I cut the hole for the pit? I drilled a 1/2"
hole in the basement floor: the concrete appears to
be about 2" thick. For all I know, if I went after
it with a sledge hammer, the floor could crack along
the length of the house. There should be 6" of gravel
fill on the outside edge of the pit lining? Another
6" under the lining? Etc, etc.

If you drill (swiss-cheese) the floor in the shape of the
bucket, you can easily sledge hammer the hole.

This occurred to me. Short of renting a $60/day wet concrete
saw, this may be the way to go.

3.) Can I run the sump discharge to the stack (code permitting)?
To the drain? How?

Ask your bldg inspector, but I say, "No!". Ground water
is not permitted into the sanitary sewer. If you do do it,
there are questions to be asked about a trap and vent and
check valve.

I live in a big, nasty city. Our rainwater and sewage systems
are integral. I've seen it done here. I'll ask an inspector anyway.

Might be allowed then. Ask specifics on traps, venting, and check valve.

4.) What make/model of pump? I estimate that the pump would
run for perhaps 36 hours/year or a bit less.
5.) What are the potential issues with the check valve?
One often has to drill a special hole to get them to
work properly? Thumbnail sketch of such issues?

You can drill a small hole in the dischg pipe in the pit;
that will allow water to drain back.

You mean between the pump and the check valve?
Have you done this?

I don't understand this issue.

See:
http://www.zoeller.com/zcopump/TechSupport/faq.htm


As regards 4.) and 5.), I'm told that Little Giant makes
an inclusive pit-liner/sump ("Drain Pump Kit") unit. I see
Teel (#4RK74) and Zoeller (#2P778) units in the Grainger
catalog for around $225. They are not described as sump
pump systems but might work OK? Are these a good bet?

It's such a lite-duty application that I'm not above
adapting the 5-gal. plastic pickle bucket that's been sitting
in my garage for years grin. But is there a pump/switch
unit that will fit in the 10.5" diameter bottom of the
bucket?

There *are* some small pumps which will fit in a pickle bucket.
They have a float which slides on a rod. True Valu has one.

This is a pedastal pump. Preferable to a submersable?

They carry a submersible too.
Here's a Flotec with vertical float:
http://www.tool-universe.com/f/Flote..._200040024.htm
just as an example.


The big disadvantage of the small bucket is that the pump
will cycle frequently, shortening life. Frequent pump noise
may be irritating too.

You have installed pit/sump systems? What would you
recommend for an 800 sq. foot house that doesn't draw
much water??

The bucket may work fine. You'll have to experiment to see
what the flow is.

Thanks,
Puddin'

Puddin' Man wrote:

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:58:28 -0500, Speedy Jim wrote:

Replies in-line:

Puddin' Man wrote:

Specify/Install Sump Pit and Sump Pump

---snip----


Questions:

1.) How critical is the location of the pit? I've some
limitations and am thinking of locating it very
close to the stack and drain.

I think it's iffy that a bucket in a pit is going to
be effective in draining ground water coming under the
floor from god-knows-where. The lip of the bucket will
need to be below the concrete (unless you only plan to
drain whatever water appears on *top* of the concrete.

I should have mentioned that holes are to be drilled in the
pit liner. I thought this was SOP.

For instance, if the liner were 14" tall, I could start drilling
holes 4" from the top, and stop drilling 4" from the bottom.
The liner would then begin filling when the water level
was 10" below the top of the floor (about 8" below the
bottom).

But I can't find specs on any of this stuff ...


Don't know of spcs for this.
I was concerned about how the ground water has to migrate
from where it comes up over to where the sump will be
(picture the flow under the concrete floor).

2.) How can I cut the hole for the pit? I drilled a 1/2"
hole in the basement floor: the concrete appears to
be about 2" thick. For all I know, if I went after
it with a sledge hammer, the floor could crack along
the length of the house. There should be 6" of gravel
fill on the outside edge of the pit lining? Another
6" under the lining? Etc, etc.

If you drill (swiss-cheese) the floor in the shape of the
bucket, you can easily sledge hammer the hole.

This occurred to me. Short of renting a $60/day wet concrete
saw, this may be the way to go.

3.) Can I run the sump discharge to the stack (code permitting)?
To the drain? How?

Ask your bldg inspector, but I say, "No!". Ground water
is not permitted into the sanitary sewer. If you do do it,
there are questions to be asked about a trap and vent and
check valve.

I live in a big, nasty city. Our rainwater and sewage systems
are integral. I've seen it done here. I'll ask an inspector anyway.

Might be allowed then. Ask specifics on traps, venting, and check valve.

4.) What make/model of pump? I estimate that the pump would
run for perhaps 36 hours/year or a bit less.
5.) What are the potential issues with the check valve?
One often has to drill a special hole to get them to
work properly? Thumbnail sketch of such issues?

You can drill a small hole in the dischg pipe in the pit;
that will allow water to drain back.

You mean between the pump and the check valve?
Have you done this?

I don't understand this issue.

See:
http://www.zoeller.com/zcopump/TechSupport/faq.htm


As regards 4.) and 5.), I'm told that Little Giant makes
an inclusive pit-liner/sump ("Drain Pump Kit") unit. I see
Teel (#4RK74) and Zoeller (#2P778) units in the Grainger
catalog for around $225. They are not described as sump
pump systems but might work OK? Are these a good bet?

It's such a lite-duty application that I'm not above
adapting the 5-gal. plastic pickle bucket that's been sitting
in my garage for years grin. But is there a pump/switch
unit that will fit in the 10.5" diameter bottom of the
bucket?

There *are* some small pumps which will fit in a pickle bucket.
They have a float which slides on a rod. True Valu has one.

This is a pedastal pump. Preferable to a submersable?

They carry a submersible too.
Here's a Flotec with vertical float:
http://www.tool-universe.com/f/Flote..._200040024.htm
just as an example.


The big disadvantage of the small bucket is that the pump
will cycle frequently, shortening life. Frequent pump noise
may be irritating too.

You have installed pit/sump systems? What would you
recommend for an 800 sq. foot house that doesn't draw
much water??

The bucket may work fine. You'll have to experiment to see
what the flow is.

Thanks,
Puddin'