https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...rge-Tesla.html

Drivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas. Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.

On 12/11/2019 10:06 PM, micky wrote:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...rge-Tesla.html

Drivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas. Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead! Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.

In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas. Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead! Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things. So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas. Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead! Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things. So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips. Totally stupid and only good for
local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and then
Tesla's cost over $50,000.

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 11:24:03 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas. Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead! Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things. So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.


Maybe an hour with one of the newer superchargers that delivers 200KWs
The next question is where the power is going to come from to charge
any significant number of cars all at once. Solar could be a big help
during clear skies and daytime. But you'd need the infrastructure to
support whatever number need to be charged fast at night or cloudy
days too. There is only one supercharger anywhere near here, that I
know about. It's at an outlet mall.

On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 7:42:28 AM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas. Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead! Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things. So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips. Totally stupid and only good for
local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and then
Tesla's cost over $50,000.

Why only a few thousand miles a year? If you commute 100 miles every
day, that's 25K miles a year. Or you could commute 50 miles every day
and do another 12K in other driving. If you look at driving profiles,
I'm sure you'd find that most cars have most of their miles put on
with trips that are well within the range of an electric car.

On 12/12/19 7:42 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.Â* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead!Â* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.Â* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips.Â* Totally stupid and only good for local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and then Tesla's cost over $50,000.


Yah, the Tesla is a nice toy but you could buy a real car for $50k and take it on a 600 mile day trip.

That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.

On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:
On 12/12/19 7:42 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.Â* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead!Â* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.Â* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips.Â* Totally stupid and only good
for local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and
then Tesla's cost over $50,000.


Yah, the Tesla is a nice toy but you could buy a real car for $50k and
take it on a 600 mile day trip.

That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards
instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.


My brother in law bought an older used Volt cheap just for those type toys.

Years ago when electronic type dashes were coming out a woman in
marketing in our company had a Buick with one and there was an
electrical problem. The car ran fine except she did not know how fast
she was going as the speedometer was part of the display.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:27:08 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:
On 12/12/19 7:42 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.Â* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead!Â* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.Â* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips.Â* Totally stupid and only good
for local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and
then Tesla's cost over $50,000.


Yah, the Tesla is a nice toy but you could buy a real car for $50k and
take it on a 600 mile day trip.

That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards
instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.


My brother in law bought an older used Volt cheap just for those type toys.

Years ago when electronic type dashes were coming out a woman in
marketing in our company had a Buick with one and there was an
electrical problem. The car ran fine except she did not know how fast
she was going as the speedometer was part of the display.

I suppose she was a woman and didn't care if she had low oil pressure,
a failed charging system, overheating, running out of gas or any of
the other information available on the most rudimentary dash displays.

On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:27:08 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:
On 12/12/19 7:42 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.Â* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead!Â* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.Â* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips.Â* Totally stupid and only good
for local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and
then Tesla's cost over $50,000.


Yah, the Tesla is a nice toy but you could buy a real car for $50k and
take it on a 600 mile day trip.

That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards
instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.


My brother in law bought an older used Volt cheap just for those type toys.

Years ago when electronic type dashes were coming out a woman in
marketing in our company had a Buick with one and there was an
electrical problem. The car ran fine except she did not know how fast
she was going as the speedometer was part of the display.

I suppose she was a woman and didn't care if she had low oil pressure,
a failed charging system, overheating, running out of gas or any of
the other information available on the most rudimentary dash displays.

Do you even know any women? I'm continually frustrated by cars that have
idiot lights that tell you when you're already in trouble rather than
gauges that tell you before the trouble gets that bad.

It might have been able to tell me my alternator was going south,
rather than finding out by having it fail catastrophically in a
left-turn lane during morning rush hour. "Catastrophically" means:
it bricked the entire electrical system and I couldn't even run the
hazard flashers.

Cindy Hamilton

On 12/11/19 10:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas. Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead! Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things. So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

There are multiple chargers, so the line would be moving faster than
that. However, it's still a reason not to use an electric car for a long
trip.

--
13 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking."

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 08:18:24 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:27:08 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:
On 12/12/19 7:42 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.Â* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead!Â* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.Â* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips.Â* Totally stupid and only good
for local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and
then Tesla's cost over $50,000.


Yah, the Tesla is a nice toy but you could buy a real car for $50k and
take it on a 600 mile day trip.

That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards
instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.


My brother in law bought an older used Volt cheap just for those type toys.

Years ago when electronic type dashes were coming out a woman in
marketing in our company had a Buick with one and there was an
electrical problem. The car ran fine except she did not know how fast
she was going as the speedometer was part of the display.

I suppose she was a woman and didn't care if she had low oil pressure,
a failed charging system, overheating, running out of gas or any of
the other information available on the most rudimentary dash displays.

Do you even know any women? I'm continually frustrated by cars that have
idiot lights that tell you when you're already in trouble rather than
gauges that tell you before the trouble gets that bad.

It might have been able to tell me my alternator was going south,
rather than finding out by having it fail catastrophically in a
left-turn lane during morning rush hour. "Catastrophically" means:
it bricked the entire electrical system and I couldn't even run the
hazard flashers.

Cindy Hamilton

I guess I don't know many women like you and neither do most people. I
do appreciate a woman who knows about stuff tho. I am married to one.
She complains about the others more than me.

On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 11:18:34 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:27:08 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:
On 12/12/19 7:42 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says....
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.Â* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead!Â* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.Â* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips.Â* Totally stupid and only good
for local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and
then Tesla's cost over $50,000.


Yah, the Tesla is a nice toy but you could buy a real car for $50k and
take it on a 600 mile day trip.

That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards
instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.


My brother in law bought an older used Volt cheap just for those type toys.

Years ago when electronic type dashes were coming out a woman in
marketing in our company had a Buick with one and there was an
electrical problem. The car ran fine except she did not know how fast
she was going as the speedometer was part of the display.

I suppose she was a woman and didn't care if she had low oil pressure,
a failed charging system, overheating, running out of gas or any of
the other information available on the most rudimentary dash displays.

Do you even know any women? I'm continually frustrated by cars that have
idiot lights that tell you when you're already in trouble rather than
gauges that tell you before the trouble gets that bad.

It might have been able to tell me my alternator was going south,
rather than finding out by having it fail catastrophically in a
left-turn lane during morning rush hour. "Catastrophically" means:
it bricked the entire electrical system and I couldn't even run the
hazard flashers.

Cindy Hamilton

BMW does the same thing. The computer monitors everything, including the
system voltage, yet no warning of a failing battery. You'd think that the
computer knowing the car was driven for a number of hours, then parked overnight
and having a battery voltage lower than normal would be reported so you
could avoid a tow. But nope, first sign is the battery is dead.

On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:


That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards
instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.


I'm not sure until I actually use one. I've heard, but not verified,
that some simple things require multiple touches of the screen to change
wiper speed and such. It is possible to simplify things so much that
they are difficult to use.

On 12/12/2019 12:19 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 12/11/19 10:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.Â* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead!Â* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.Â* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

There are multiple chargers, so the line would be moving faster than
that. However, it's still a reason not to use an electric car for a long
trip.


Fine for the daily commute or modest trip but I do a couple of long
trips a year, maybe 1500 miles or so. Can be done but you need more
time and there is some risk.

On 12/12/19 2:32 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:


That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.


I'm not sure until I actually use one.Â* I've heard, but not verified, that some simple things require multiple touches of the screen to change wiper speed and such.Â* It is possible to simplify things so much that they are difficult to use.


Yah, critical stuff like wipers, headlights, turn signals etc should probably have dedicated switches...but the steam-powered gauges got to go.

Or how about "Alexa, wipers on slow."

On 12/12/19 11:18 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:27:08 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:
On 12/12/19 7:42 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.Â* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.

Plan ahead!Â* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.


Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.Â* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips.Â* Totally stupid and only good
for local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and
then Tesla's cost over $50,000.

Yah, the Tesla is a nice toy but you could buy a real car for $50k and
take it on a 600 mile day trip.

That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards
instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.

My brother in law bought an older used Volt cheap just for those type toys.

Years ago when electronic type dashes were coming out a woman in
marketing in our company had a Buick with one and there was an
electrical problem. The car ran fine except she did not know how fast
she was going as the speedometer was part of the display.
I suppose she was a woman and didn't care if she had low oil pressure,
a failed charging system, overheating, running out of gas or any of
the other information available on the most rudimentary dash displays.
Do you even know any women? I'm continually frustrated by cars that have
idiot lights that tell you when you're already in trouble rather than
gauges that tell you before the trouble gets that bad.

It might have been able to tell me my alternator was going south,
rather than finding out by having it fail catastrophically in a
left-turn lane during morning rush hour. "Catastrophically" means:
it bricked the entire electrical system and I couldn't even run the
hazard flashers.

Cindy Hamilton


A flat panel display could flash a meaningful message like "Charging system voltage low! or "Oil pressure low" or "Gas cap loose" instead of a cryptic ODBII code.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 16:01:03 -0500, Ted wrote:

On 12/12/19 11:18 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:27:08 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:
On 12/12/19 7:42 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.Â* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.

Plan ahead!Â* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.


Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.Â* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips.Â* Totally stupid and only good
for local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and
then Tesla's cost over $50,000.

Yah, the Tesla is a nice toy but you could buy a real car for $50k and
take it on a 600 mile day trip.

That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards
instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.

My brother in law bought an older used Volt cheap just for those type toys.

Years ago when electronic type dashes were coming out a woman in
marketing in our company had a Buick with one and there was an
electrical problem. The car ran fine except she did not know how fast
she was going as the speedometer was part of the display.
I suppose she was a woman and didn't care if she had low oil pressure,
a failed charging system, overheating, running out of gas or any of
the other information available on the most rudimentary dash displays.
Do you even know any women? I'm continually frustrated by cars that have
idiot lights that tell you when you're already in trouble rather than
gauges that tell you before the trouble gets that bad.

It might have been able to tell me my alternator was going south,
rather than finding out by having it fail catastrophically in a
left-turn lane during morning rush hour. "Catastrophically" means:
it bricked the entire electrical system and I couldn't even run the
hazard flashers.

Cindy Hamilton


A flat panel display could flash a meaningful message like "Charging system voltage low! or "Oil pressure low" or "Gas cap loose" instead of a cryptic ODBII code.

What is wrong with a gauge that has a needle pointing to the voltage
present or the actual oil pressure?
I certainly trust mechanical gauges more than a digital representation
of an analog sensor. Folks act like just because a digital display has
a number precise to 2 decimal places that it is that accurate.

On 12/12/2019 4:23 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 16:01:03 -0500, Ted wrote:

On 12/12/19 11:18 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:27:08 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:
On 12/12/19 7:42 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.Â* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.

Plan ahead!Â* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.


Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.Â* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips.Â* Totally stupid and only good
for local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and
then Tesla's cost over $50,000.
Yah, the Tesla is a nice toy but you could buy a real car for $50k and
take it on a 600 mile day trip.

That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards
instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.

My brother in law bought an older used Volt cheap just for those type toys.

Years ago when electronic type dashes were coming out a woman in
marketing in our company had a Buick with one and there was an
electrical problem. The car ran fine except she did not know how fast
she was going as the speedometer was part of the display.
I suppose she was a woman and didn't care if she had low oil pressure,
a failed charging system, overheating, running out of gas or any of
the other information available on the most rudimentary dash displays.
Do you even know any women? I'm continually frustrated by cars that have
idiot lights that tell you when you're already in trouble rather than
gauges that tell you before the trouble gets that bad.

It might have been able to tell me my alternator was going south,
rather than finding out by having it fail catastrophically in a
left-turn lane during morning rush hour. "Catastrophically" means:
it bricked the entire electrical system and I couldn't even run the
hazard flashers.

Cindy Hamilton

A flat panel display could flash a meaningful message like "Charging system voltage low! or "Oil pressure low" or "Gas cap loose" instead of a cryptic ODBII code.
What is wrong with a gauge that has a needle pointing to the voltage
present or the actual oil pressure?


As long as the driver checks them frequently, gauges are fine. Personally I'd rather have a computer do the boring stuff for me and audible alert me with a meaningful error message.

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 12 Dec 2019 16:23:43 -0500,
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 16:01:03 -0500, Ted wrote:

On 12/12/19 11:18 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:27:08 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:
On 12/12/19 7:42 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.

Plan ahead!* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.


Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips.* Totally stupid and only good
for local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and
then Tesla's cost over $50,000.

Yah, the Tesla is a nice toy but you could buy a real car for $50k and
take it on a 600 mile day trip.

That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards
instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.

My brother in law bought an older used Volt cheap just for those type toys.

Years ago when electronic type dashes were coming out a woman in
marketing in our company had a Buick with one and there was an
electrical problem. The car ran fine except she did not know how fast
she was going as the speedometer was part of the display.
I suppose she was a woman and didn't care if she had low oil pressure,
a failed charging system, overheating, running out of gas or any of
the other information available on the most rudimentary dash displays.
Do you even know any women? I'm continually frustrated by cars that have
idiot lights that tell you when you're already in trouble rather than
gauges that tell you before the trouble gets that bad.

It might have been able to tell me my alternator was going south,
rather than finding out by having it fail catastrophically in a
left-turn lane during morning rush hour. "Catastrophically" means:
it bricked the entire electrical system and I couldn't even run the
hazard flashers.

Cindy Hamilton


A flat panel display could flash a meaningful message like "Charging system voltage low! or "Oil pressure low" or "Gas cap loose" instead of a cryptic ODBII code.

What is wrong with a gauge that has a needle pointing to the voltage
present or the actual oil pressure?
I certainly trust mechanical gauges more than a digital representation
of an analog sensor. Folks act like just because a digital display has
a number precise to 2 decimal places that it is that accurate.

I had a digital dash in my '84 or 88 LeBaron. Little squares lit up so
there was no distinguishing 1/4 tank until it got to 1/8th of a tank, or
something like that.

But the worst part is that when I turned it on, every time for weeks it
said I was low on windshield washer fluid. I know that already!!!
Then it said "All monitored systems are functioning normally" and in
place of the radio, that I wanted to listen to. I'd bought it used and
after a year or two I learned there was a switch on the box under the
dash to turn off all the talking.

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 12 Dec 2019 14:32:33 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:


That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards
instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.


I'm not sure until I actually use one. I've heard, but not verified,
that some simple things require multiple touches of the screen to change
wiper speed and such. It is possible to simplify things so much that
they are difficult to use.

I just got caller ID so I'm rereading the phone machine manual. It has
26 actual buttons, but still has more functions than that. 3 of them
are soft keys but I can't even practice or test some of the functions
unless I'm on the phone with someone, and unless I'm on the phone and
some third party calls me. Plus the stuff that doesn't have its own
button, I can't remember anyhow.

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 12 Dec 2019 14:38:33 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 12/12/2019 12:19 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 12/11/19 10:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.


Plan ahead!* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.



Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

There are multiple chargers, so the line would be moving faster than
that. However, it's still a reason not to use an electric car for a long
trip.


Fine for the daily commute or modest trip but I do a couple of long
trips a year, maybe 1500 miles or so. Can be done but you need more
time and there is some risk.

In some country, might have been Israel, because it's small enough that
one can't take a really long trip, an entreprenour working with a
company from Palo Alto was building a system of charging stations and
making some rent-to-buy offer on electric cars. It lasted a few years
and wsn't doing well, for a variety of reasons. IIRC they let their
customers vote on whether to just concentrate on the Tel Aviv area, or
go out of business entirely, paying them back part but not all of what
the customers lost. I forget how they voted. Okay, easy enough to find
a little with google:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place_(company)
It seems the company ran projects in Australia, China, Denmark, Hawaii,
but it got further along in Israel.

opened its first functional charging station the first week of December
2008

at peak in mid September 2012, there were 21 operational battery-swap
stations open to the public in Israel.[3] -- So they would swap
batteries rather than charge them.

filed for bankruptcy in Israel in May 2013.

Less than 1,000 Fluence Z.E. cars were deployed in Israel and around
400 units in Denmark, after spending about US$850 million in private
capital


I think both cars and batteries are better now. Wait..They're trying
again in 2020, this time wih much more participation by the governement.
This time they are charging the batteries.
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,...537046,00.html
I wonder if the 1000 elecric cars in Israel now are largely the same
ones left over from 10 years ago.

On 12/12/2019 08:38 PM, micky wrote:
I think both cars and batteries are better now. Wait..They're trying
again in 2020, this time wih much more participation by the governement.
This time they are charging the batteries.
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,...537046,00.html
I wonder if the 1000 elecric cars in Israel now are largely the same
ones left over from 10 years ago.

Israel is slightly larger than Massachusetts. What does that tell you
about the feasibility in a country the size of the US?

On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 10:14:01 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 12 Dec 2019 16:23:43 -0500,
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 16:01:03 -0500, Ted wrote:

On 12/12/19 11:18 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 10:59:45 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:27:08 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 12/12/2019 10:05 AM, Ted wrote:
On 12/12/19 7:42 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/11/2019 11:23 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says....
rivers waiting "hours" to charge their Teslas.Â* Interesting that they
all have their headlights on, and probably their radios too.

Plan ahead!Â* Still a long way to go to integrate a reliable system.


Looks like it may take about an hour or so to fully charge one off those
things.Â* So if there are 6 cars ahead of you, you might as well start
walking.

Electric cars are not for long trips.Â* Totally stupid and only good
for local use and only driving a few thousand miles every year and
then Tesla's cost over $50,000.

Yah, the Tesla is a nice toy but you could buy a real car for $50k and
take it on a 600 mile day trip.

That said, I really do like Tesla's use of flat-panel display dashboards
instead of a cluster-fluck of old-fashioned steam-powered gauges.

My brother in law bought an older used Volt cheap just for those type toys.

Years ago when electronic type dashes were coming out a woman in
marketing in our company had a Buick with one and there was an
electrical problem. The car ran fine except she did not know how fast
she was going as the speedometer was part of the display.
I suppose she was a woman and didn't care if she had low oil pressure,
a failed charging system, overheating, running out of gas or any of
the other information available on the most rudimentary dash displays.
Do you even know any women? I'm continually frustrated by cars that have
idiot lights that tell you when you're already in trouble rather than
gauges that tell you before the trouble gets that bad.

It might have been able to tell me my alternator was going south,
rather than finding out by having it fail catastrophically in a
left-turn lane during morning rush hour. "Catastrophically" means:
it bricked the entire electrical system and I couldn't even run the
hazard flashers.

Cindy Hamilton


A flat panel display could flash a meaningful message like "Charging system voltage low! or "Oil pressure low" or "Gas cap loose" instead of a cryptic ODBII code.

What is wrong with a gauge that has a needle pointing to the voltage
present or the actual oil pressure?
I certainly trust mechanical gauges more than a digital representation
of an analog sensor. Folks act like just because a digital display has
a number precise to 2 decimal places that it is that accurate.

I had a digital dash in my '84 or 88 LeBaron. Little squares lit up so
there was no distinguishing 1/4 tank until it got to 1/8th of a tank, or
something like that.

But the worst part is that when I turned it on, every time for weeks it
said I was low on windshield washer fluid. I know that already!!!
Then it said "All monitored systems are functioning normally" and in
place of the radio, that I wanted to listen to. I'd bought it used and
after a year or two I learned there was a switch on the box under the
dash to turn off all the talking.

It was built for Democrats and you bought it.

On 12/12/19 10:13 PM, micky wrote:
I had a digital dash in my '84 or 88 LeBaron.

We all make mistakes but I'd never admit to owning a LeBaron.

On 12/12/19 2:42 PM, Ted wrote:

[snip]

I'm not sure until I actually use one.Â* I've heard, but not verified,
that some simple things require multiple touches of the screen to
change wiper speed and such.Â* It is possible to simplify things so
much that they are difficult to use.


Yah, critical stuff like wipers, headlights, turn signals etc should
probably have dedicated switches...but the steam-powered gauges got to go.

Or how about "Alexa, wipers on slow."

significantly slower than operating a simple switch.

Also, it doesn't seem right to have to go through Google's servers just
to turn on the wipers in your car.

--
12 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
false, and by the rulers as useful." -- Seneca (4 BCE - 65 CE), Roman
philosopher and dramatist

On 12/12/19 3:01 PM, Ted wrote:

[snip]

A flat panel display could flash a meaningful message like "Charging
system voltage low! or "Oil pressure low" or "Gas cap loose" instead of
a cryptic ODBII code.

And we don't have the old excuse of too little program memory to hold
meaningful error messages, like with the "1201" from Apollo 11.

--
12 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
false, and by the rulers as useful." -- Seneca (4 BCE - 65 CE), Roman
philosopher and dramatist

On 12/12/19 3:23 PM, wrote:

[snip]

What is wrong with a gauge that has a needle pointing to the voltage
present or the actual oil pressure?
I certainly trust mechanical gauges more than a digital representation
of an analog sensor. Folks act like just because a digital display has
a number precise to 2 decimal places that it is that accurate.

I have a digital thermometer that shows temperature precise to tenths of
a degree. The accuracy of the thermometer is so low that extra digit is
not useful.

--
12 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
false, and by the rulers as useful." -- Seneca (4 BCE - 65 CE), Roman
philosopher and dramatist

On 12/12/19 4:07 PM, Barb wrote:

[snip]

What is wrong with a gauge that has a needle pointing to the voltage
present or the actual oil pressure?


As long as the driver checks them frequently, gauges are fine.
Personally I'd rather have a computer do the boring stuff for me and
audible alert me with a meaningful error message.

The display could tell you to check the gauges. That's what my vehicle
(Chevrolet) does.

--
12 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
false, and by the rulers as useful." -- Seneca (4 BCE - 65 CE), Roman
philosopher and dramatist

In article , lid says...
I certainly trust mechanical gauges more than a digital representation
of an analog sensor. Folks act like just because a digital display has
a number precise to 2 decimal places that it is that accurate.

I have a digital thermometer that shows temperature precise to tenths of
a degree. The accuracy of the thermometer is so low that extra digit is
not useful.



I calibrated lots of instruments at work. We could trace our
calibration standards to the government standard.

They were accurate to less than .1% . However the thermocouples we used
in the process were only rated to plus or minus 3 deg C at the 300 deg C
we were clost to measuring.
That ment we could be off several degrees . However the computer
readouts were to 2 or 3 decimal places depending on the software. That
is not counting a conversion or two in the path between the TC and
computer screen.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 11:31:09 -0500, devnull wrote:

On 12/12/19 10:13 PM, micky wrote:
I had a digital dash in my '84 or 88 LeBaron.

We all make mistakes but I'd never admit to owning a LeBaron.

I had an inherited 86 LeBaron I had no real complaints about, except
that Japanese engine ate oil at an alarming rate. It wasn't dripping
and it wasn't smoking so I guess the emission controls were just
letting it burn up somewhat cleanly.
It was somewhat rare since it wasn't a convertible.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 14:49:47 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article , lid says...
I certainly trust mechanical gauges more than a digital representation
of an analog sensor. Folks act like just because a digital display has
a number precise to 2 decimal places that it is that accurate.

I have a digital thermometer that shows temperature precise to tenths of
a degree. The accuracy of the thermometer is so low that extra digit is
not useful.



I calibrated lots of instruments at work. We could trace our
calibration standards to the government standard.

They were accurate to less than .1% . However the thermocouples we used
in the process were only rated to plus or minus 3 deg C at the 300 deg C
we were clost to measuring.
That ment we could be off several degrees . However the computer
readouts were to 2 or 3 decimal places depending on the software. That
is not counting a conversion or two in the path between the TC and
computer screen.

The classic "inaccurate reading, precise out to 2 decimal places"

In article ,
says...
we were clost to measuring.
That ment we could be off several degrees . However the computer
readouts were to 2 or 3 decimal places depending on the software. That
is not counting a conversion or two in the path between the TC and
computer screen.

The classic "inaccurate reading, precise out to 2 decimal places"



The good thing was that while inaccurate, but precise, once the lab
determind where the numbers should be , that is where the process could
be kept very precise so the product was consistant. That is what
matters the most in the polyester business.

We had several differnet types of instruments/controllers and they did
have to be precise and consistant over time even if they were wrong by a
large percentage.

I had a discussion with an engineer. He was looking at a couple of
computer screens and one measurment was about 3 deg from the lowest to
the highest. There were 2 thermocouples and 2 RTDs in a tube about 1/2
of an inch in diameter and 2 feet long, all near the tip. He wanted to
know which one was correct. I told him to take his pick because they
all were by our standards. He could not believe that. He had me take a
portable calibration meter to the point and check each element. They
varied about what the computer screen showed. This was not one of the
inexpensive meters, but one that cost about $ 5000. He could not believe
it but I finally convienced him that was the way it was. He was not
very bright and almost every time something was wrong with the product
he wanted the temperatures checked. We had about 10 men in the shop and
all of us had the same problem with him.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 13 Dec 2019 16:41:27 -0500,
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 11:31:09 -0500, devnull wrote:

On 12/12/19 10:13 PM, micky wrote:
I had a digital dash in my '84 or 88 LeBaron.

We all make mistakes but I'd never admit to owning a LeBaron.

I had 3. I liked them all.

One of them was leaking everywhere before I junked it. I drove without
power steering 50 weeks out of the last 52, but it handled fine, and
when I added fluid, it was like new again, until it leaked out.

I had an inherited 86 LeBaron I had no real complaints about, except
that Japanese engine ate oil at an alarming rate. It wasn't dripping
and it wasn't smoking so I guess the emission controls were just
letting it burn up somewhat cleanly.
It was somewhat rare since it wasn't a convertible.

A coworker had a non-convertible and I sat in it before I bought mine.
Hers had a bench seat and a column shift, that I would have preferred,
but I don't think they made them that way for convertibles.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 19:32:37 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 13 Dec 2019 16:41:27 -0500,
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 11:31:09 -0500, devnull wrote:

On 12/12/19 10:13 PM, micky wrote:
I had a digital dash in my '84 or 88 LeBaron.

We all make mistakes but I'd never admit to owning a LeBaron.

I had 3. I liked them all.

One of them was leaking everywhere before I junked it. I drove without
power steering 50 weeks out of the last 52, but it handled fine, and
when I added fluid, it was like new again, until it leaked out.

I had an inherited 86 LeBaron I had no real complaints about, except
that Japanese engine ate oil at an alarming rate. It wasn't dripping
and it wasn't smoking so I guess the emission controls were just
letting it burn up somewhat cleanly.
It was somewhat rare since it wasn't a convertible.

A coworker had a non-convertible and I sat in it before I bought mine.
Hers had a bench seat and a column shift, that I would have preferred,
but I don't think they made them that way for convertibles.

Mine was the sport coupe, bucket seats and a console.