How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
0000 steel wool or pumice?

I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is 48
hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
Finishes. How long do you wait??

I usually try to wait at least 2 weeks, but I've done it as fast as 2-3
days. It does make a difference. The best approach is to actually put the
piece in it's actual location to be used and wait several weeks for it to
acclimate. Some things are simply too big to move around a lot, and I find
once something is in the house it get's used, so I have backed off from that
and just play it by ear. I don't tend to want the shiniest of finishes
anyway, so rubbing it out a bit premature doesn't bother me as much as it
might others.

Mike

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:1yTOb.83730$Rc4.301394@attbi_s54...
How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
0000 steel wool or pumice?

I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is
48
hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
Finishes. How long do you wait??

I guess it all depends on your environment. If you live in cold climate,
I'd wait at least 48 hrs. It took me 1 week to put on 3 coats of poly for
my project.


"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:1yTOb.83730$Rc4.301394@attbi_s54...
How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
0000 steel wool or pumice?

I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is
48
hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
Finishes. How long do you wait??

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:1yTOb.83730$Rc4.301394@attbi_s54...
How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
0000 steel wool or pumice?

I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is 48
hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
Finishes. How long do you wait??


I'll assume you're refering to the final coat of 3 or more layers.
A month is about what I wait, sometimes longer.
However, since you're also refering to poly, it's more subjective.
Once it "fully" cures, its a bear to rub out. Not really any more difficult,
just more work. More time. A little more muscle.
I wait the full month in the summer, unless we're going through a long dry spell.
In the winter, since I'll rub it out in the "play room" which is well heated and dry as
the Saraha, I only wait about two weeks. ( I dont do much finish work in the winter.)

Good luck,

Myx

A day, two days, a week tops. Usually can't afford to have something sitting
around longer then that.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:1yTOb.83730$Rc4.301394@attbi_s54...
How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
0000 steel wool or pumice?

I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is
48
hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
Finishes. How long do you wait??

If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve. This
means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it is
probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but realistically,
you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however, that
poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out to as
glossy a finish.

Preston

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:1yTOb.83730$Rc4.301394@attbi_s54...
How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
0000 steel wool or pumice?

I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is
48
hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
Finishes. How long do you wait??

I'd have to agree with that last on several points.

Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more so,
something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement then
shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish) is
marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so it can
accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater extremes
found out of doors.

Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder finish
the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as lacquer
or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not the
aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is to
remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it so the
light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the finish
a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
...
If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve. This
means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it is
probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but realistically,
you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however, that
poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out to as
glossy a finish.

Preston

Mike,

You are WAY off on this one.

Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface creating
more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.

Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???

I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
morning.





"Mike G" wrote in message
...
I'd have to agree with that last on several points.

Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more so,
something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
then
shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish) is
marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so it
can
accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater extremes
found out of doors.

Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
finish
the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as lacquer
or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not the
aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is to
remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it so
the
light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
finish
a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
...
If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
This
means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it is
probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
realistically,
you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
that
poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out to as
glossy a finish.

Preston

No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.

If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
something wrong.

As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured hold
it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what you
will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of the
finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are putting
scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where the
light gets reflected from.

Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all about
go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand rubbed 12
coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish that
practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
Mike,

You are WAY off on this one.

Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
creating
more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.

Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???

I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
morning.





"Mike G" wrote in message
...
I'd have to agree with that last on several points.

Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more
so,
something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
then
shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish) is
marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so it
can
accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater extremes
found out of doors.

Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
finish
the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
lacquer
or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not
the
aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is to
remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it so
the
light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
finish
a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
...
If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
This
means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it is
probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
realistically,
you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
that
poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out to
as
glossy a finish.

Preston

This is incorrect from what I have read:

If you want glossy don't rub out the finish.

Read he
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/rubbingout.htm


exert:
"Rubbing out a finish is the last step in finishing and the object is to
remove imperfections, even out and smooth the surface, and establish a
consistent sheen to the finish."

"You'll be able to control the degree of luster (flat, satin or GLOSS) by
the materials and techniques that you use. "







"Mike G" wrote in message
...
No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.

If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
something wrong.

As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
hold
it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
you
will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of the
finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
putting
scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where the
light gets reflected from.

Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
about
go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand rubbed
12
coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
that
practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
Mike,

You are WAY off on this one.

Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
creating
more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.

Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???

I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
morning.





"Mike G" wrote in message
...
I'd have to agree with that last on several points.

Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more
so,
something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
then
shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish)
is
marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
it
can
accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
extremes
found out of doors.

Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
finish
the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
lacquer
or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not
the
aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
to
remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
so
the
light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
finish
a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
...
If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
This
means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it
is
probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
realistically,
you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
that
poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
to
as
glossy a finish.

Preston

This is incorrect from what I have read:

If you want glossy don't rub out the finish.

Read he
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/rubbingout.htm


exert:
"Rubbing out a finish is the last step in finishing and the object is to
remove imperfections, even out and smooth the surface, and establish a
consistent sheen to the finish."

"You'll be able to control the degree of luster (flat, satin or GLOSS) by
the materials and techniques that you use. "






"Mike G" wrote in message
...
No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.

If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
something wrong.

As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
hold
it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
you
will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of the
finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
putting
scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where the
light gets reflected from.

Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
about
go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand rubbed
12
coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
that
practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
Mike,

You are WAY off on this one.

Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
creating
more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.

Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???

I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
morning.





"Mike G" wrote in message
...
I'd have to agree with that last on several points.

Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more
so,
something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
then
shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish)
is
marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
it
can
accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
extremes
found out of doors.

Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
finish
the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
lacquer
or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not
the
aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
to
remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
so
the
light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
finish
a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
...
If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
This
means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it
is
probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
realistically,
you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
that
poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
to
as
glossy a finish.

Preston

I put a "mirror finish" on poly by rubbing out with 000 steel wool followed
by pumice. (lots of elbow grease).




"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:T0jPb.95172$nt4.248306@attbi_s51...
This is incorrect from what I have read:

If you want glossy don't rub out the finish.

Read he
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/rubbingout.htm


exert:
"Rubbing out a finish is the last step in finishing and the object is to
remove imperfections, even out and smooth the surface, and establish a
consistent sheen to the finish."

"You'll be able to control the degree of luster (flat, satin or GLOSS) by
the materials and techniques that you use. "






"Mike G" wrote in message
...
No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.

If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
something wrong.

As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
hold
it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
you
will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of
the
finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
putting
scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where
the
light gets reflected from.

Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
about
go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand
rubbed
12
coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
that
practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
Mike,

You are WAY off on this one.

Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
creating
more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.

Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???

I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
morning.





"Mike G" wrote in message
...
I'd have to agree with that last on several points.

Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even
more
so,
something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood
movement
then
shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil
varnish)
is
marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
it
can
accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
extremes
found out of doors.

Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
finish
the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
lacquer
or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is
not
the
aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
to
remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
so
the
light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving
the
finish
a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
...
If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic
curve.
This
means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week,
it
is
probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
realistically,
you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember
however,
that
poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
to
as
glossy a finish.

Preston

I put a "mirror finish" on poly by rubbing out with 000 steel wool followed
by pumice. (lots of elbow grease).






"Mike G" wrote in message
...
No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.

If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
something wrong.

As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
hold
it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
you
will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of the
finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
putting
scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where the
light gets reflected from.

Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
about
go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand rubbed
12
coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
that
practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
Mike,

You are WAY off on this one.

Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
creating
more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.

Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???

I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
morning.





"Mike G" wrote in message
...
I'd have to agree with that last on several points.

Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more
so,
something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
then
shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish)
is
marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
it
can
accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
extremes
found out of doors.

Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
finish
the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
lacquer
or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not
the
aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
to
remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
so
the
light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
finish
a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
...
If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
This
means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it
is
probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
realistically,
you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
that
poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
to
as
glossy a finish.

Preston

If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
something wrong.


You have been rubbing out finishes for years and you can't make a finish
glossy?

Do you think maybe YOU are doing something wrong?





"Mike G" wrote in message
...
No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.

If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
something wrong.

As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
hold
it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
you
will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of the
finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
putting
scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where the
light gets reflected from.

Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
about
go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand rubbed
12
coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
that
practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
Mike,

You are WAY off on this one.

Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
creating
more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.

Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???

I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
morning.





"Mike G" wrote in message
...
I'd have to agree with that last on several points.

Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more
so,
something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement
then
shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish)
is
marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
it
can
accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
extremes
found out of doors.

Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
finish
the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
lacquer
or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not
the
aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
to
remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
so
the
light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the
finish
a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
...
If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.
This
means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it
is
probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
realistically,
you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,
that
poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
to
as
glossy a finish.

Preston

Tell you what, when you figure out what depth in a finish is and can get
your grain to appear to actually be 3D come back and talk to me.

There may be some difference in the definition of gloss but you obviously
don't have any idea what you are talking about and are parroting something
you read.

Of course you can stay blissfully ignorant if you wish, that is your
business.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:M6jPb.92624$sv6.329504@attbi_s52...
If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
something wrong.


You have been rubbing out finishes for years and you can't make a finish
glossy?

Do you think maybe YOU are doing something wrong?





"Mike G" wrote in message
...
No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.

If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
something wrong.

As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured
hold
it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what
you
will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of
the
finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
putting
scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where
the
light gets reflected from.

Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
about
go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand
rubbed
12
coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish
that
practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
Mike,

You are WAY off on this one.

Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
creating
more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.

Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???

I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
morning.





"Mike G" wrote in message
...
I'd have to agree with that last on several points.

Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even
more
so,
something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood
movement
then
shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil
varnish)
is
marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so
it
can
accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
extremes
found out of doors.

Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder
finish
the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
lacquer
or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is
not
the
aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is
to
remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it
so
the
light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving
the
finish
a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
...
If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic
curve.
This
means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week,
it
is
probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
realistically,
you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember
however,
that
poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out
to
as
glossy a finish.

Preston

Mike,

I'm not parroting, I'm backing up my experiences with literature. Can you?
Show me where you have read that rubbing out a finish doesn't produce a
gloss. Maybe your not doing it right. Have you thought about that?

I put a glossy finish on poly by first rubbing with 0000 steel wool followed
by pumice.

One of the purposes of rubbing out a finish are to put a "gloss" on the
finish.

You said you can't put a gloss on a finish by rubbing out. I simply
disagree.



"Mike G" wrote in message
...
Tell you what, when you figure out what depth in a finish is and can get
your grain to appear to actually be 3D come back and talk to me.

There may be some difference in the definition of gloss but you obviously
don't have any idea what you are talking about and are parroting something
you read.

Of course you can stay blissfully ignorant if you wish, that is your
business.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:M6jPb.92624$sv6.329504@attbi_s52...
If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been
doing
something wrong.


You have been rubbing out finishes for years and you can't make a finish
glossy?

Do you think maybe YOU are doing something wrong?





"Mike G" wrote in message
...
No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.

If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been
doing
something wrong.

As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has
cured
hold
it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of
what
you
will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of
the
finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are
putting
scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where
the
light gets reflected from.

Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all
about
go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand
rubbed
12
coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a
finish
that
practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...
Mike,

You are WAY off on this one.

Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface
creating
more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a
finish.

Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???

I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner
this
morning.





"Mike G" wrote in message
...
I'd have to agree with that last on several points.

Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even
more
so,
something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood
movement
then
shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil
varnish)
is
marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard
so
it
can
accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater
extremes
found out of doors.

Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the
harder
finish
the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as
lacquer
or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is
not
the
aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim
is
to
remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine
it
so
the
light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving
the
finish
a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
...
If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic
curve.
This
means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week,
it
is
probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but
realistically,
you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember
however,
that
poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed
out
to
as
glossy a finish.

Preston

did you mean 0000?

dave

stoutman wrote:

I put a "mirror finish" on poly by rubbing out with 000 steel wool followed
by pumice. (lots of elbow grease).






"Mike G" wrote in message
...

No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.

If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
something wrong.

As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured

hold

it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what

you

will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of the
finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are

putting

scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where the
light gets reflected from.

Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all

about

go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand rubbed

12

coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish

that

practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...

Mike,

You are WAY off on this one.

Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface

creating

more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.

Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???

I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
morning.





"Mike G" wrote in message
...

I'd have to agree with that last on several points.

Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more

so,

something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement

then

shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish)

is

marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so

it

can

accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater

extremes

found out of doors.

Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder

finish

the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as

lacquer

or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not

the

aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is

to

remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it

so

the

light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the

finish

a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
.. .

If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.

This

means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it

is

probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but

realistically,

you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,

that

poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out

to

as

glossy a finish.

Preston

yes, Thanks.



"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
...
did you mean 0000?

dave

stoutman wrote:

I put a "mirror finish" on poly by rubbing out with 000 steel wool
followed
by pumice. (lots of elbow grease).






"Mike G" wrote in message
...

No, I've just been rubbing out finishes for years.

If you have rubbed out a finish on a nicely figured wood and have to
question the statement of having depth and 3D effect you have been doing
something wrong.

As for gloss. Next time you apply a finish and the final coat has cured

hold

it up to a glancing light, or even just plain looking at it. 90% of what

you

will see is light being reflected off of the surface of the surface of
the
finish. That is gloss. Now, really rub out that finish. Yes, you are

putting

scratches in the surface and when they disappear to the eye see where
the
light gets reflected from.

Now, if you want a more easily seen example of what rubbing out is all

about

go to a car show and take a look at a cobalt blue metal flake hand
rubbed

12

coat layer of automotive lacquer looks like. You won't see any light
reflected off the surface of that finish, what you will see is a finish

that

practically glows from the interior with a real sense of depth.

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
news:dJcPb.89286$Rc4.436318@attbi_s54...

Mike,

You are WAY off on this one.

Rubbing out a finish puts finer and finer scratches on the surface

creating

more of a sheen (glossy). Glossy is the aim of rubbing out a finish.

Reflect light off the wood?? 3D effect on wood grain???

I think you might have been breathing in to much lacquer thinner this
morning.





"Mike G" wrote in message
...

I'd have to agree with that last on several points.

Varnish is quite a bit harder then shellac or lacquer. Poly even more

so,

something that makes varnish more prone to cracking from wood movement

then

shellac or lacquer. It's the reason spar varnish (a long oil varnish)

is

marketed. The additional oil makes the varnish not quite as hard so

it

can

accommodate the movement of wood that is exposed to the greater

extremes

found out of doors.

Further, while it is far more labor intensive rubbing out the harder

finish

the harder the surface it can be rubbed out to as good a finish as

lacquer

or shellac. If you want glossy don't rub out the finish. Glossy is not

the

aim of rubbing out the finish. Rubbing out is a process who's aim is

to

remove the reflective gloss of a newly applied finish then refine it

so

the

light passes through the surface and reflects off the wood giving the

finish

a sense of depth and the wood grain a 3D effect..

--
Mike G.

Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
.. .

If you are math oriented, the finish cures with a logarithmic curve.

This

means that in a month, it is 98+% cured, however, within a week, it

is

probably 80% to 90% cured. It is best to wait a month, but

realistically,

you can rub it out in a couple of weeks. You must remember however,

that

poly is not as hard as lacquer or shellac and cannot be rubbed out

to

as

glossy a finish.

Preston

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:25:33 +0000, wrote:

How long do you let your poly (final coat) cure before smoothing out with
0000 steel wool or pumice?

I don't have very much patience with finishes. I want it finished
yesterday. I like the look of poly after it's finished with pumice. Is
48 hours enough? Flexner says wait at least a month in Understanding Wood
Finishes. How long do you wait??


Patience shows in fine finishing. In a few days, it'll be done and you
will have a piece to enjoy.

Depending on humidity and temperature, drying times vary. I usually apply
one day and then "adjust" the next.