Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:15:23 -0600, philo wrote:

Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.
Won't void his warranty but if they screw something up THAT would not
be warranted. If he has HID or LED headlights I would not let an
oilchange place touch it. Not even with normal bulbs on some cars
where access is not VERY SIMPLE.

On 12/10/2019 10:15 PM, philo wrote:
Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.

Yeah, he's an idiot. Typically, lights are wear items and at most
coverage is one year.

Now, let's say the car is 6 months old. If he changes the bulb at his
expense he is out the cost of the bulb. Maximum. Changing one part has
no effect on the warranty of any other part and is assured by law under
the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act. It is permissible to use third part parts.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:46:52 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:15:23 -0600, philo wrote:

Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.
Won't void his warranty but if they screw something up THAT would not
be warranted. If he has HID or LED headlights I would not let an
oilchange place touch it. Not even with normal bulbs on some cars
where access is not VERY SIMPLE.

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.

But that looks like a real pain to do, complete with booby traps. Or is
it easy? 2005 Toyota Camry/Solara.

On 12/11/19 1:55 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:46:52 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:15:23 -0600, philo wrote:

Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.
Won't void his warranty but if they screw something up THAT would not
be warranted. If he has HID or LED headlights I would not let an
oilchange place touch it. Not even with normal bulbs on some cars
where access is not VERY SIMPLE.
I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.

But that looks like a real pain to do, complete with booby traps. Or is
it easy? 2005 Toyota Camry/Solara.


It's an easy job, even a service manager could do it.

On 12/11/19 1:55 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:46:52 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:15:23 -0600, philo wrote:

Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.
Won't void his warranty but if they screw something up THAT would not
be warranted. If he has HID or LED headlights I would not let an
oilchange place touch it. Not even with normal bulbs on some cars
where access is not VERY SIMPLE.

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.

But that looks like a real pain to do, complete with booby traps. Or is
it easy? 2005 Toyota Camry/Solara.


Clouded lenses can be polished clear. All auto stores sell kits. Some
body shops will do it for you for about $100.

I've done my 2008 Ford twice now. $20 + an hours time.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:55:18 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:46:52 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:15:23 -0600, philo wrote:

Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.
Won't void his warranty but if they screw something up THAT would not
be warranted. If he has HID or LED headlights I would not let an
oilchange place touch it. Not even with normal bulbs on some cars
where access is not VERY SIMPLE.

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.

But that looks like a real pain to do, complete with booby traps. Or is
it easy? 2005 Toyota Camry/Solara.

Dunno about a Toyota but it wasn't a big deal on my Honda. just a lot
of screws and the new one needs to be realigned. It still only buys
you a few years. My headlights are foggy again. This contoured
headlight thing might save a few pennies a year in fuel consumption
but it changed a headlight from a $5 sealed beam that was held in with
3 screws to a $300 "headlight assembly" that takes almost an hour to
install and aim.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:12:57 -0500, wrote:

On 12/11/19 1:55 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:46:52 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:15:23 -0600, philo wrote:

Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.
Won't void his warranty but if they screw something up THAT would not
be warranted. If he has HID or LED headlights I would not let an
oilchange place touch it. Not even with normal bulbs on some cars
where access is not VERY SIMPLE.

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.

But that looks like a real pain to do, complete with booby traps. Or is
it easy? 2005 Toyota Camry/Solara.


Clouded lenses can be polished clear. All auto stores sell kits. Some
body shops will do it for you for about $100.

I've done my 2008 Ford twice now. $20 + an hours time.

The significant part of that is "twice now". It seems the more you
clean them the shorter time they stay clear. The plastic is UV damaged
and any fix is temporary.

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 11:38:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:12:57 -0500, wrote:

On 12/11/19 1:55 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:46:52 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:15:23 -0600, philo wrote:

Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.
Won't void his warranty but if they screw something up THAT would not
be warranted. If he has HID or LED headlights I would not let an
oilchange place touch it. Not even with normal bulbs on some cars
where access is not VERY SIMPLE.

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.

But that looks like a real pain to do, complete with booby traps. Or is
it easy? 2005 Toyota Camry/Solara.


Clouded lenses can be polished clear. All auto stores sell kits. Some
body shops will do it for you for about $100.

I've done my 2008 Ford twice now. $20 + an hours time.

The significant part of that is "twice now". It seems the more you
clean them the shorter time they stay clear. The plastic is UV damaged
and any fix is temporary.

So too is painting a house, sealing a deck, etc. I've used the 3M kit
and it lasts many years. Went from looking totally cloudy to bright and
clear. Like anything else, then it slowly degrades again over the years.
I think the UV damage is the very outer surface that you grind away.

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:51:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/10/2019 10:15 PM, philo wrote:
Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.

Yeah, he's an idiot. Typically, lights are wear items and at most
coverage is one year.

Now, let's say the car is 6 months old. If he changes the bulb at his
expense he is out the cost of the bulb. Maximum. Changing one part has
no effect on the warranty of any other part and is assured by law under
the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act. It is permissible to use third part parts.
Surprisingly the headlight bulbs in my 1996 Ford Ranger were still
the original factory fitments when I replaced the headlights due to
deterioration of the reflector and lens 2 years ago - when the truck
had about 360000km on it - all of that driven with the headlights lit
- either as DRL or head lights - - - - -

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:55:18 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:46:52 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:15:23 -0600, philo wrote:

Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.
Won't void his warranty but if they screw something up THAT would not
be warranted. If he has HID or LED headlights I would not let an
oilchange place touch it. Not even with normal bulbs on some cars
where access is not VERY SIMPLE.

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.

But that looks like a real pain to do, complete with booby traps. Or is
it easy? 2005 Toyota Camry/Solara.
Polish them. Many of the aftermarker replacements are pretty shiity
(from personal experience)

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:38:06 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:12:57 -0500, wrote:

On 12/11/19 1:55 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:46:52 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:15:23 -0600, philo wrote:

Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.
Won't void his warranty but if they screw something up THAT would not
be warranted. If he has HID or LED headlights I would not let an
oilchange place touch it. Not even with normal bulbs on some cars
where access is not VERY SIMPLE.

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.

But that looks like a real pain to do, complete with booby traps. Or is
it easy? 2005 Toyota Camry/Solara.


Clouded lenses can be polished clear. All auto stores sell kits. Some
body shops will do it for you for about $100.

I've done my 2008 Ford twice now. $20 + an hours time.

The significant part of that is "twice now". It seems the more you
clean them the shorter time they stay clear. The plastic is UV damaged
and any fix is temporary.
RFeplacing with low cost third party replacements is ALSO temporary.
When I sanded mine with 2000 grit whet-n-dry dandpaper and sprayed
them with automotive clear-coat they lasted longer than the
replacements. When the silvering went bad sanding and clearing was no
longer an option. The new ones are already flaking

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
....

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
....

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.

--

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:22:50 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 11:38:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:12:57 -0500, wrote:

On 12/11/19 1:55 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:46:52 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:15:23 -0600, philo wrote:

Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.
Won't void his warranty but if they screw something up THAT would not
be warranted. If he has HID or LED headlights I would not let an
oilchange place touch it. Not even with normal bulbs on some cars
where access is not VERY SIMPLE.

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.

But that looks like a real pain to do, complete with booby traps. Or is
it easy? 2005 Toyota Camry/Solara.


Clouded lenses can be polished clear. All auto stores sell kits. Some
body shops will do it for you for about $100.

I've done my 2008 Ford twice now. $20 + an hours time.

The significant part of that is "twice now". It seems the more you
clean them the shorter time they stay clear. The plastic is UV damaged
and any fix is temporary.

So too is painting a house, sealing a deck, etc. I've used the 3M kit
and it lasts many years. Went from looking totally cloudy to bright and
clear. Like anything else, then it slowly degrades again over the years.
I think the UV damage is the very outer surface that you grind away.

Yet the sealed beam in your 51 Chevy is as good as it was the day you
installed it. Yeah, progress. There is absolutely no reason why we
couldn't install HID bulbs or LEDs in a sealed beam. LED sounds like a
natural. They just don't look cool I guess.

On 12/10/19 9:51 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/10/2019 10:15 PM, philo wrote:
Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change
place and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.

Yeah, he's an idiot.* Typically, lights are wear items and at most
coverage is one year.

Now, let's say the car is 6 months old.* If he changes the bulb at his
expense he is out the cost of the bulb.* Maximum.* Changing one part has
no effect on the warranty of any other part and is assured by law under
the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act.* It is permissible to use third part parts.




Thanks for the reply ...everyone...

I guess if he wants to take it back to the dealer, then that's his problem.

I just could not imagine changing a bulb would void his warranty.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.

One of the guys who worked for my wife was polishing lenses as a side
gig. He did mine and I didn't get a year out of them. The sun here
kills anything made of plastic.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.
On the other hand it's been YEARS since I've had a stone through a
headlight - which used to be a very common occurrence - and they are a
lot cheaper than the old lead crystal aerodynamic headlights the
europeans used in the seventies - - - - -

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:13:03 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:22:50 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 11:38:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:12:57 -0500, wrote:

On 12/11/19 1:55 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:46:52 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:15:23 -0600, philo wrote:

Have not posted here in a while as all is going well.

Today a friend told me he canceled a night trip because he noticed a
headlight was out.


I asked him why he did not just take it to the nearest oil change place
and pay maybe $25. It would be a fifteen minute delay.


He told me that would void his car warranty.


Before I blast him for being an idiot thought I'd ask here if he was
being a fool.
Won't void his warranty but if they screw something up THAT would not
be warranted. If he has HID or LED headlights I would not let an
oilchange place touch it. Not even with normal bulbs on some cars
where access is not VERY SIMPLE.

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.

But that looks like a real pain to do, complete with booby traps. Or is
it easy? 2005 Toyota Camry/Solara.


Clouded lenses can be polished clear. All auto stores sell kits. Some
body shops will do it for you for about $100.

I've done my 2008 Ford twice now. $20 + an hours time.

The significant part of that is "twice now". It seems the more you
clean them the shorter time they stay clear. The plastic is UV damaged
and any fix is temporary.

So too is painting a house, sealing a deck, etc. I've used the 3M kit
and it lasts many years. Went from looking totally cloudy to bright and
clear. Like anything else, then it slowly degrades again over the years.
I think the UV damage is the very outer surface that you grind away.

Yet the sealed beam in your 51 Chevy is as good as it was the day you
installed it. Yeah, progress. There is absolutely no reason why we
couldn't install HID bulbs or LEDs in a sealed beam. LED sounds like a
natural. They just don't look cool I guess.
By definition if the bulb is replaceable it's not a sealed beam - and
there were many replaceable bulb glass lensed "optiques" in years past
(not legal in much of the USA even with E stamp) I've had Bosch,
Lucas, Hella, marelli, and Cibie - on my cars in the sixties to
eighties - replacing the stock sealed beams. Those Cibie Z Beams were
some of the best headlights I've ever driven behind before the current
LED headlights.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:15:42 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.

One of the guys who worked for my wife was polishing lenses as a side
gig. He did mine and I didn't get a year out of them. The sun here
kills anything made of plastic.
If you don't coat them they don't last. I found automotive clearcoat
worked good - and rubbing Armour All on them monthly makes a big
difference too.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:33:39 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.
On the other hand it's been YEARS since I've had a stone through a
headlight - which used to be a very common occurrence - and they are a
lot cheaper than the old lead crystal aerodynamic headlights the
europeans used in the seventies - - - - -

I think I only had one broken sealed beam in well over a million miles
of driving my old cars. I really don't even remember that many burning
out. If it did, it was a 5 minute fix for about $5. They sold the
sealed beams in drug stores and 7-11s.

On 12/11/2019 7:59 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:15:42 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.

One of the guys who worked for my wife was polishing lenses as a side
gig. He did mine and I didn't get a year out of them. The sun here
kills anything made of plastic.
If you don't coat them they don't last. I found automotive clearcoat
worked good - and rubbing Armour All on them monthly makes a big
difference too.

Still don't stand up to gravel roads and wind-blown sand, though, worth
anything.

On 12/11/2019 11:39 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:33:39 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.
On the other hand it's been YEARS since I've had a stone through a
headlight - which used to be a very common occurrence - and they are a
lot cheaper than the old lead crystal aerodynamic headlights the
europeans used in the seventies - - - - -

I think I only had one broken sealed beam in well over a million miles
of driving my old cars. I really don't even remember that many burning
out. If it did, it was a 5 minute fix for about $5. They sold the
sealed beams in drug stores and 7-11s.

+1

I don't recall ever having a broken headlight on one of the cars in 60
years. A tractor or two and one of the work trucks but none of those
were road damage.

--

On 12/11/2019 8:59 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:15:42 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.

One of the guys who worked for my wife was polishing lenses as a side
gig. He did mine and I didn't get a year out of them. The sun here
kills anything made of plastic.
If you don't coat them they don't last. I found automotive clearcoat
worked good - and rubbing Armour All on them monthly makes a big
difference too.

Coating on plastic is important. Best if contains antioxidants and
scratch resistant materials. I have noted frosted lenses on some
expensive vehicles and figured they used cheap lenses.

Not sure but believe polishing kits at auto stores may contain the
antioxidants and scratch resistant finishes. You could polish a plastic
lens with toothpaste and it would look good but not contain the
protective coating.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 08:47:05 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 12/11/2019 8:59 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:15:42 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.

One of the guys who worked for my wife was polishing lenses as a side
gig. He did mine and I didn't get a year out of them. The sun here
kills anything made of plastic.
If you don't coat them they don't last. I found automotive clearcoat
worked good - and rubbing Armour All on them monthly makes a big
difference too.

Coating on plastic is important. Best if contains antioxidants and
scratch resistant materials. I have noted frosted lenses on some
expensive vehicles and figured they used cheap lenses.

Not sure but believe polishing kits at auto stores may contain the
antioxidants and scratch resistant finishes. You could polish a plastic
lens with toothpaste and it would look good but not contain the
protective coating.

The problem is that the U/V damage goes all the way through the
plastic and polishing only tries to recover the surface. Plastic will
never be as hard or U/V resistant as glass.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 00:39:58 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:33:39 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.
On the other hand it's been YEARS since I've had a stone through a
headlight - which used to be a very common occurrence - and they are a
lot cheaper than the old lead crystal aerodynamic headlights the
europeans used in the seventies - - - - -

I think I only had one broken sealed beam in well over a million miles
of driving my old cars. I really don't even remember that many burning
out. If it did, it was a 5 minute fix for about $5. They sold the
sealed beams in drug stores and 7-11s.
It seams like I replaced 10 or more a week with holes in them when I
was working as a mechanic - and I had several broken in each of my
cars - the Mini, Valiant, Darft and Ramcharger before replacing them
with the more durable lead crystal Bosch or Cicie lights - and even
with those I got stone pits, but they didn't punch through.
We had a lot of gravel secondary roads back then (and I lost 2
windsheilds inside a month on the Fargo from stones thrown by passing
trucks on PAVED roads) Thr plastic halogen sealed beams by comparison
were virtually bullet-proof - - - and didn't seem to yellow like the
aero headlights do today - must have been different plastic.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 06:54:28 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 7:59 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:15:42 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.

One of the guys who worked for my wife was polishing lenses as a side
gig. He did mine and I didn't get a year out of them. The sun here
kills anything made of plastic.
If you don't coat them they don't last. I found automotive clearcoat
worked good - and rubbing Armour All on them monthly makes a big
difference too.

Still don't stand up to gravel roads and wind-blown sand, though, worth
anything.

Thankfully we have a lot less gravel roads today and I have not
noticed much sand-blast effect. It does help to touch them up every
year or so though.

On 12/12/2019 9:52 AM, wrote:
....

The problem is that the U/V damage goes all the way through the
plastic and polishing only tries to recover the surface. Plastic will
never be as hard or U/V resistant as glass.

+238.5

I've polished the beegeezus out of the ones on the work truck...you'd
have to take off good fraction of the material it appears to get rid of
the crazing...it's not just a thin surface.

The 300M was almost as bad when traded it off.

It's terrible choice of material for purpose.

--

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:20:46 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 00:39:58 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:33:39 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.
On the other hand it's been YEARS since I've had a stone through a
headlight - which used to be a very common occurrence - and they are a
lot cheaper than the old lead crystal aerodynamic headlights the
europeans used in the seventies - - - - -

I think I only had one broken sealed beam in well over a million miles
of driving my old cars. I really don't even remember that many burning
out. If it did, it was a 5 minute fix for about $5. They sold the
sealed beams in drug stores and 7-11s.
It seams like I replaced 10 or more a week with holes in them when I
was working as a mechanic - and I had several broken in each of my
cars - the Mini, Valiant, Darft and Ramcharger before replacing them
with the more durable lead crystal Bosch or Cicie lights - and even
with those I got stone pits, but they didn't punch through.
We had a lot of gravel secondary roads back then (and I lost 2
windsheilds inside a month on the Fargo from stones thrown by passing
trucks on PAVED roads) Thr plastic halogen sealed beams by comparison
were virtually bullet-proof - - - and didn't seem to yellow like the
aero headlights do today - must have been different plastic.

Even if breakage was a serious problem with sealed beams it is still a
$5 fix, not hundreds of dollars. I just never had the problem. If you
are losing that many headlights your windshield bill must be
stupendous.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:20:46 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:


We had a lot of gravel secondary roads back then (and I lost 2
windsheilds inside a month on the Fargo from stones thrown by passing
trucks on PAVED roads) Thr plastic halogen sealed beams by comparison
were virtually bullet-proof - - - and didn't seem to yellow like the
aero headlights do today - must have been different plastic.

I used a cheap lens restorer called Blue Magic on 2 older cars a while back.
The headlights were yellowed and fogged badly. Cleaned right up.
Took about 5 minute a lens. Lenses looked almost brand new.
But some people left reviews that it didn't work.
So it depends on the plastic used in the lens.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 14:15:53 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:20:46 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 00:39:58 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:33:39 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.
On the other hand it's been YEARS since I've had a stone through a
headlight - which used to be a very common occurrence - and they are a
lot cheaper than the old lead crystal aerodynamic headlights the
europeans used in the seventies - - - - -

I think I only had one broken sealed beam in well over a million miles
of driving my old cars. I really don't even remember that many burning
out. If it did, it was a 5 minute fix for about $5. They sold the
sealed beams in drug stores and 7-11s.
It seams like I replaced 10 or more a week with holes in them when I
was working as a mechanic - and I had several broken in each of my
cars - the Mini, Valiant, Darft and Ramcharger before replacing them
with the more durable lead crystal Bosch or Cicie lights - and even
with those I got stone pits, but they didn't punch through.
We had a lot of gravel secondary roads back then (and I lost 2
windsheilds inside a month on the Fargo from stones thrown by passing
trucks on PAVED roads) Thr plastic halogen sealed beams by comparison
were virtually bullet-proof - - - and didn't seem to yellow like the
aero headlights do today - must have been different plastic.

Even if breakage was a serious problem with sealed beams it is still a
$5 fix, not hundreds of dollars. I just never had the problem. If you
are losing that many headlights your windshield bill must be
stupendous.
Like I said - 2 within amonth - at $600 a pop. Would have been more
expensive if it had missed the windsheild and chipped the custom pearl
paint - - - -

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 13:43:33 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:20:46 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:


We had a lot of gravel secondary roads back then (and I lost 2
windsheilds inside a month on the Fargo from stones thrown by passing
trucks on PAVED roads) Thr plastic halogen sealed beams by comparison
were virtually bullet-proof - - - and didn't seem to yellow like the
aero headlights do today - must have been different plastic.

I used a cheap lens restorer called Blue Magic on 2 older cars a while back.
The headlights were yellowed and fogged badly. Cleaned right up.
Took about 5 minute a lens. Lenses looked almost brand new.
But some people left reviews that it didn't work.
So it depends on the plastic used in the lens.
It also depends on whether you can read and follow directions - - - -
Apparently it doesn't work for most republicans - -- - -

On 12/12/2019 10:22 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 06:54:28 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 7:59 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:15:42 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.

One of the guys who worked for my wife was polishing lenses as a side
gig. He did mine and I didn't get a year out of them. The sun here
kills anything made of plastic.
If you don't coat them they don't last. I found automotive clearcoat
worked good - and rubbing Armour All on them monthly makes a big
difference too.

Still don't stand up to gravel roads and wind-blown sand, though, worth
anything.

Thankfully we have a lot less gravel roads today and I have not
noticed much sand-blast effect. It does help to touch them up every
year or so though.

Well, we don't have any fewer and won't in my lifetime nor almost
certainly even in grandchildrens'.

Just making them from glass again would solve essentially all the
problem...even if only the outer lens were.

On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 8:26:22 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 12/12/2019 10:22 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 06:54:28 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 7:59 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:15:42 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.

One of the guys who worked for my wife was polishing lenses as a side
gig. He did mine and I didn't get a year out of them. The sun here
kills anything made of plastic.
If you don't coat them they don't last. I found automotive clearcoat
worked good - and rubbing Armour All on them monthly makes a big
difference too.

Still don't stand up to gravel roads and wind-blown sand, though, worth
anything.

Thankfully we have a lot less gravel roads today and I have not
noticed much sand-blast effect. It does help to touch them up every
year or so though.

Well, we don't have any fewer and won't in my lifetime nor almost
certainly even in grandchildrens'.

Just making them from glass again would solve essentially all the
problem...even if only the outer lens were.

Glass probably isn't suitable because of all the complex shapes used in
today's cars and the way that they are held in. The old sealed beam
units sucked as far as lighting up the road too. Back then, most of the
rest of the world used separate bulbs and lenses that gave brighter light and
put the beam in a more precise shape and location. But they did that
with glass lenses back then, so it wasn't a glass issue, just the US
being stuck on stupid. Today's headlights are far better than the old
ones. But I've seen reviews where how well headlights light up the road
varies significantly between one car and another, even within the same
manufacturer's product line. I would bet that's due to trading off
styling for performance.

On 12/12/2019 11:24 AM, dpb wrote:
On 12/12/2019 9:52 AM, wrote:
...

The problem is that the U/V damage goes all the way through the
plastic and polishing only tries to recover the surface.Â* Plastic will
never be as hard or U/V resistant as glass.

+238.5

I've polished the beegeezus out of the ones on the work truck...you'd
have to take off good fraction of the material it appears to get rid of
the crazing...it's not just a thin surface.

The 300M was almost as bad when traded it off.

It's terrible choice of material for purpose.

--



The plastics used for lenses are generally polycarbonate and
polymethylmethacrylate. PMMA has the best UV resistance. Both have
about the same scratch resistance which can be improved by coatings.
UV resistant coatings and antioxidants help PC the most is it absorbs
and is degraded by UV.

On 12/13/2019 10:44 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 8:26:22 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 12/12/2019 10:22 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 06:54:28 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 7:59 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:15:42 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.

One of the guys who worked for my wife was polishing lenses as a side
gig. He did mine and I didn't get a year out of them. The sun here
kills anything made of plastic.
If you don't coat them they don't last. I found automotive clearcoat
worked good - and rubbing Armour All on them monthly makes a big
difference too.

Still don't stand up to gravel roads and wind-blown sand, though, worth
anything.

Thankfully we have a lot less gravel roads today and I have not
noticed much sand-blast effect. It does help to touch them up every
year or so though.

Well, we don't have any fewer and won't in my lifetime nor almost
certainly even in grandchildrens'.

Just making them from glass again would solve essentially all the
problem...even if only the outer lens were.

Glass probably isn't suitable because of all the complex shapes used in
today's cars and the way that they are held in. The old sealed beam
units sucked as far as lighting up the road too. Back then, most of the
rest of the world used separate bulbs and lenses that gave brighter light and
put the beam in a more precise shape and location. But they did that
with glass lenses back then, so it wasn't a glass issue, just the US
being stuck on stupid. Today's headlights are far better than the old
ones. But I've seen reviews where how well headlights light up the road
varies significantly between one car and another, even within the same
manufacturer's product line. I would bet that's due to trading off
styling for performance.

The outer lens would easily be formed w/ glass for any vehicle I have or
have ever had. What that outer shield is made of need have no bearing
on what the lighting element is.

Certainly when the present cover is 90% occluded the lighting
effectiveness is nil no matter the source.

Alto certainly it does appear the actual lighting effectiveness may play
a subservient role in the design over appearance and/or other styling
choices (such as wind resistance for the ever elusive fleet mandated
mileage figure that is so much the driving force in these silly
decisions to save a half ounce here and there). Those mandates should
go away, too; let the market forces operate.

--

On 12/13/2019 11:45 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/12/2019 11:24 AM, dpb wrote:
On 12/12/2019 9:52 AM, wrote:
...

The problem is that the U/V damage goes all the way through the
plastic and polishing only tries to recover the surface.Â* Plastic will
never be as hard or U/V resistant as glass.

+238.5

I've polished the beegeezus out of the ones on the work truck...you'd
have to take off good fraction of the material it appears to get rid
of the crazing...it's not just a thin surface.

The 300M was almost as bad when traded it off.

It's terrible choice of material for purpose.

--



The plastics used for lenses are generally polycarbonate and
polymethylmethacrylate.Â* PMMA has the best UV resistance.Â* Both have
about the same scratch resistance which can be improved by coatings.
UV resistant coatings and antioxidants help PC the most is it absorbs
and is degraded by UV.

I don't know (and don't really care) what they are...all I know (and
care about) is that they don't last worth crap in operating conditions
where I live and drive.

--

On 12/13/2019 1:54 PM, dpb wrote:
On 12/13/2019 11:45 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/12/2019 11:24 AM, dpb wrote:
On 12/12/2019 9:52 AM, wrote:
...

The problem is that the U/V damage goes all the way through the
plastic and polishing only tries to recover the surface.Â* Plastic will
never be as hard or U/V resistant as glass.

+238.5

I've polished the beegeezus out of the ones on the work truck...you'd
have to take off good fraction of the material it appears to get rid
of the crazing...it's not just a thin surface.

The 300M was almost as bad when traded it off.

It's terrible choice of material for purpose.

--



The plastics used for lenses are generally polycarbonate and
polymethylmethacrylate.Â* PMMA has the best UV resistance.Â* Both have
about the same scratch resistance which can be improved by coatings.
UV resistant coatings and antioxidants help PC the most is it absorbs
and is degraded by UV.

I don't know (and don't really care) what they are...all I know (and
care about) is that they don't last worth crap in operating conditions
where I live and drive.

--

Point is that if properly made they work fine. If you live in a sunny
climate with a lot of grit maybe sand blowing around you are going to
have problems and that include the paint on your car.

On 12/12/2019 2:52 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 13:43:33 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:20:46 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:


We had a lot of gravel secondary roads back then (and I lost 2
windsheilds inside a month on the Fargo from stones thrown by passing
trucks on PAVED roads) Thr plastic halogen sealed beams by comparison
were virtually bullet-proof - - - and didn't seem to yellow like the
aero headlights do today - must have been different plastic.
I used a cheap lens restorer called Blue Magic on 2 older cars a while back.
The headlights were yellowed and fogged badly. Cleaned right up.
Took about 5 minute a lens. Lenses looked almost brand new.
But some people left reviews that it didn't work.
So it depends on the plastic used in the lens.
It also depends on whether you can read and follow directions - - - -
Apparently it doesn't work for most republicans - -- - -

Â* That was totally uncalled for Clare . Why did you have to drag
politics into a very civil discussion ?

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

On 12/13/2019 1:19 PM, Frank wrote:
On 12/13/2019 1:54 PM, dpb wrote:
On 12/13/2019 11:45 AM, Frank wrote:
On 12/12/2019 11:24 AM, dpb wrote:
On 12/12/2019 9:52 AM, wrote:
...

The problem is that the U/V damage goes all the way through the
plastic and polishing only tries to recover the surface.Â* Plastic will
never be as hard or U/V resistant as glass.

+238.5

I've polished the beegeezus out of the ones on the work
truck...you'd have to take off good fraction of the material it
appears to get rid of the crazing...it's not just a thin surface.

The 300M was almost as bad when traded it off.

It's terrible choice of material for purpose.

--



The plastics used for lenses are generally polycarbonate and
polymethylmethacrylate.Â* PMMA has the best UV resistance.Â* Both have
about the same scratch resistance which can be improved by coatings.
UV resistant coatings and antioxidants help PC the most is it absorbs
and is degraded by UV.

I don't know (and don't really care) what they are...all I know (and
care about) is that they don't last worth crap in operating conditions
where I live and drive.

--

Point is that if properly made they work fine.Â* If you live in a sunny
climate with a lot of grit maybe sand blowing around you are going to
have problems and that include the paint on your car.

Point is "they DON'T work fine" or there wouldn't be all the polishing
kits on sale and complaints, even where there isn't quite such an
environment as here.

As for paint, it also suffers, yes, but not nearly as badly recent years
as did for a few right after the EPA banned nearly everything volatile
the manufacturers had been using. For a while clearcoats out here
almost universally failed within a year or two at the outside...of
course, had one of those fail even while still in the pretty benign TN
conditions altho it took a little longer than that.

--

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:44:33 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 8:26:22 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 12/12/2019 10:22 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 06:54:28 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 7:59 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:15:42 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:04:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/11/2019 12:55 AM, micky wrote:
...

I read an article yesterday about changing the whole light assembly,
with lens, when the lens is so cloudy it doesn't light up the road well
enough.
...

The switch from glass to plastic was a terrible move...just to save a
few ounces and maybe a few pennies.

With gravel roads it's impossible to keep any clear more than a year or
so. The UV damage is also a pita.

I've had very little luck with the polishing kits.

One of the guys who worked for my wife was polishing lenses as a side
gig. He did mine and I didn't get a year out of them. The sun here
kills anything made of plastic.
If you don't coat them they don't last. I found automotive clearcoat
worked good - and rubbing Armour All on them monthly makes a big
difference too.

Still don't stand up to gravel roads and wind-blown sand, though, worth
anything.

Thankfully we have a lot less gravel roads today and I have not
noticed much sand-blast effect. It does help to touch them up every
year or so though.

Well, we don't have any fewer and won't in my lifetime nor almost
certainly even in grandchildrens'.

Just making them from glass again would solve essentially all the
problem...even if only the outer lens were.

Glass probably isn't suitable because of all the complex shapes used in
today's cars and the way that they are held in. The old sealed beam
units sucked as far as lighting up the road too. Back then, most of the
rest of the world used separate bulbs and lenses that gave brighter light and
put the beam in a more precise shape and location. But they did that
with glass lenses back then, so it wasn't a glass issue, just the US
being stuck on stupid. Today's headlights are far better than the old
ones. But I've seen reviews where how well headlights light up the road
varies significantly between one car and another, even within the same
manufacturer's product line. I would bet that's due to trading off
styling for performance.

I would put a sealed beam, even the old technology incandescent, not
even the halogens, up against any new style with a cloudy lens. There
is absolutely no reason why the current technology lighting could not
be put in a sealed beam. That eliminates cloudy lenses, bad reflectors
and $300-400 proprietary light assemblies. That tiny hit you take in
aerodynamics doesn't come near covering the extra cost over the life
of the car.