"I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists,
because they should be condemned totally."

- Donald J Trump, August 12, 2017


And just for the record, there is nothing wrong with being white, with
being proud that you are white, and having this notion that you live in
a country, a "nation", with a characteristic culture, language, secure
borders and controlled immigration.

========================

Biden Spokesman Doubles Down After Getting Called Out For
Charlottesville Disinformation

Thu, 08/08/2019 - 21:26

On Thursday, Breitbart's Joel Pollak asked former Vice President about a
lie he's been peddling - namely that President Trump called neo-Nazis
"very fine people" during his speech in the aftermath of the
Charlottesville Unite the Right rally.

Biden began his remarks at the "Political Soapbox" at the Iowa State
Fair by repeating the claim that Trump had called neo-Nazis "very fine
people": "Charlottesville - that hate and that venom that we saw, and
then the president saying, when asked about the groups as well as the
young woman, when she was killed, he said there were very fine people in
both groups. Very fine people. No president, sitting president has ever
said something like that. And the only thing that's happened is it's
gotten worse." -Breitbart

When asked by Pollak "Mr. Vice President, are you aware that you're
misquoting Donald Trump in Charlottesville? He never called neo-Nazis
very fine people?" Biden angrily replied "No, he called all those folks
who walked out of that, neo-Nazis shouting hate. Their veins bulging."

"But he specifically said he was condemning them," replied Pollak, to
which Biden erupted "No he did not. He said he walked out and he said
it. He said there were very fine people in both groups. They were
chanting anti-Semitic slogans and carrying flags."

Biden then stormed away from Pollak.

Enter Biden spokesman, Bill Russo - who tweeted pure disinformation
trying to prove Breitbart wrong, with a partial transcript of Trump's
Charlottesville comments.

"You also had people that were very fine people, on both sides."

cc: @BreitbartNews pic.twitter.com/hxkyCuEdF3
- Bill Russo (@BillR) August 8, 2019

What Russo failed to include was what Trump said shortly after - which
Breitbart's called him out for over Twitter for omitting the part where
Trump says "I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white
nationalists, because they should be condemned totally."

Why did you need to omit this? pic.twitter.com/k26qetCCmu
- Breitbart News (@BreitbartNews) August 8, 2019

After his public shaming, Russo doubled down, tweeting "Ok so exactly
which of the torch-wielding, Nazi-saluting fanatics chanting "Jews will
not replace us" fit your gaslighting narrative?"

Ok so exactly which of the torch-wielding, Nazi-saluting fanatics
chanting "Jews will not replace us" fit your gaslighting narrative?
pic.twitter.com/hWDWXDL71Q
- Bill Russo (@BillR) August 8, 2019

The Twitterverse was not kind to Bill:

This is the type of tweet we see when somebody knows he's lost the
argument.
- Funky Code Medina ?? (@spazafraz) August 8, 2019

Sleepy Joe lied. Take the L and move on.
- 50mm ?? (@50mmFR) August 8, 2019

You omitted facts sir.

Just apologize for the misleading info, and move on to issues blue
collar Americans care about, like the economy.

Geez!
- Ray (@RayDDL4) August 8, 2019

I can play the same game with pictures. pic.twitter.com/hxWYc84wEy
- P. ? (@Vrijeval) August 8, 2019

Bill Doubling down on this is a bad idea
- Maurice Matovich (@HMOTP) August 8, 2019

Propaganda
- rspecial (@rspecial2) August 8, 2019

So not only is the the Democratic 2020 frontrunner peddling a provable
lie, his spokesman just reinforced it with easily disprovable
disinformation!

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...harlottesville

On Friday, August 9, 2019 at 10:23:38 AM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
"I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists,
because they should be condemned totally."

- Donald J Trump, August 12, 2017


And just for the record, there is nothing wrong with being white, with
being proud that you are white, and having this notion that you live in
a country, a "nation", with a characteristic culture, language, secure
borders and controlled immigration.

========================

Biden Spokesman Doubles Down After Getting Called Out For
Charlottesville Disinformation

Thu, 08/08/2019 - 21:26

On Thursday, Breitbart's Joel Pollak asked former Vice President about a
lie he's been peddling - namely that President Trump called neo-Nazis
"very fine people" during his speech in the aftermath of the
Charlottesville Unite the Right rally.



It's not a lie, it's pretty much what Trump said. Speaking about what
went on with the protests and riots in Charlottesville, Trump said
that there were "very fine people on both sides". One side was organized
and planned as a Unite the Right rally. It was organized by white
supremacists and it featured neo-Nazis, the KKK, David Duke, and similar
ilk. The night before the riots and fatality, some of that scum were
standing brandishing rifles outside a synagogue as Jews worshiped inside.
It was a scene straight out of NAzi Germany. Now, you tell us who these
allegedly "very fine people" on that side were? How could any "very fine
people" march with Nazis and the KKK? The answer is, it's impossible.
Biden had it right. There were no very fine people on the side of the
white supremacists. It was well known in advance what this rally was
about and anyone that wound up there not knowing, when you see NAzis
and the KKK, you damn well know what it's about.

On 8/9/19 5:22 PM, trader_4 wrote:
It's not a lie, it's pretty much what Trump said. Speaking about what
went on with the protests and riots in Charlottesville, Trump said
that there were "very fine people on both sides".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gna0HaiZcHA

On 8/9/2019 7:06 PM, troll_4 wrote:
On 8/9/19 5:22 PM, trader_4 wrote:
It's not a lie, it's pretty much what Trump said. Speaking about what
went on with the protests and riots in Charlottesville, Trump said
that there were "very fine people on both sides".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gna0HaiZcHA

Our traitor has selective hearing.

On Friday, August 9, 2019 at 8:07:42 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 8/9/2019 7:06 PM, troll_4 wrote:
On 8/9/19 5:22 PM, trader_4 wrote:
It's not a lie, it's pretty much what Trump said. Speaking about what
went on with the protests and riots in Charlottesville, Trump said
that there were "very fine people on both sides".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gna0HaiZcHA

Our traitor has selective hearing.


BS, Frank, BS

That video is just another lame attempt by trumptards to try to cover
up the truth. YOU are the one with selective hearing. Trump made his
"very fine people on both sides" comment at Trump Tower, at a press
conference. The video that lame poster came up with is an entirely
different video, different time, different place. But that video is
worth commenting on too, it's more lies, with Trump lying to try to
cover up for his "very fine people" comment. In this video, Trump tries
to claim that a whole bunch of people came to Charlottesville to protest
about taking down the Robert E Lee statute. This was not about the statute..
It was organized by two WHITE SUPREMACISTS and it was well
known that it featured neo-Nazis, the KKK, David Duke and similar ilk.
It was not the citizens of Charlottesville, where the statute was,
who wanted no part of this spectacle. It
was white supremacist scum from across America. And the riots, the violence
that Trump was speaking about came on the SECOND DAY. The previous
evening these scum were standing with rifles, outside a synagogue,
intimidating Jews inside, as they worshiped. IT was a scene right out of
Nazi Germany. Here, is a sample:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...go-after-jews/

"They immediately went after the Jews. At their Friday night rally at the University of Virginia, the white nationalists brandished torches and chanted anti-Semitic and Nazi slogans, including €œblood and soil€� (an English rendering of the Nazi €œblut und boden€�) and €œJews will not replace us€� €” all crafted to cast Jews as foreign interlopers who need to be expunged. The attendees proudly displayed giant swastikas and wore shirts emblazoned with quotes from Adolf Hitler. One banner read, €œJews are Satans children.€�


€œThe truth is,€� Duke(David Duke) told a large crowd Saturday, €œthe American media, and the American political system, and the American Federal Reserve, is dominated by a tiny minority: the Jewish Zionist cause.€� Addressing another group, Richard Spencer (One of the two organizers) mocked Charlottesvilles Jewish mayor, Mike Signer. €œLittle Mayor Signer €” €˜See-ner €” how do you pronounce this little creeps name?€� Spencer asked. The crowd responded by chanting, €œJew, Jew, Jew.€� In TV interviews, attendees were not shy about their anti-Semitism."

Read that and look at that picture of those scum giving heil Hitler salutes
and carrying torches in Charlottesville.


The news conference where Trump made his despicable remarks was Aug 15, 2017
at Trump Tower in NYC. That was several days after what happened, so Trump
had plenty of time to think about what to say. And here is the video,
Trump, Aug 15, Trump Tower, NYC where Trump says there were "very fine
people on both sides".



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmaZR8E12bs

Feel free to admit you were wrong at any time about the video, that Trump
really did say it and that it was despicable. Or are Spencer, Duke, Kessler,
neo-Nazis, the KKK, very fine people in your world, as they are in Trump's?

trader_4 wrote:

It's not a lie, it's pretty much what Trump said. Speaking about what
went on with the protests and riots in Charlottesville, Trump said
that there were "very fine people on both sides".


The following (below) is from he

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...id=8 94934372

===============
I think the problem here is that the positioning of the "very fine
people on both sides" quote implies that Trump considered the Nazis and
white supremacists to be "very fine people", which is not what he was
saying. I think any reasonable reading of the above RSs and the
transcript will show that the point Trump was making was as follows:
tl;dr Trump says: Very not fine people, to blame, should be condemned:
White nationalists/neo-Nazis, violent alt-left. Very fine people, not to
blame: People on the right there to peacefully protest the taking down
of the statue, people on the left there to peacefully protest.

I think this can be clarified even without adding new content; just
reordering the existing text could do a lot. -- Ununseti (talk) 00:39,
21 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment - the sudden increase in editors attempting to "correct" this
quote is likely related to Joel Pollock's segment on Breitbart News
Tonight this past Monday, 18 March 2019 ([5]). EvergreenFir (talk)
05:38, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
It has also been discussed recently in Scott Adams' podcast. From the
transcript of Trump's statement, it is clear the "very fine people"
referred explicitly to the opposing sides of the monument debate. The
full quote is "But you also had people that were very fine people on
both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw
the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were
there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important
statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
Trump clarifies it a few sentences later when he says "I'm not talking
about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be
condemned totally." The article, at present, does not do a good job of
clarifying this point, and in fact somewhat misleads the reader. Mr
Ernie (talk) 09:18, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
===============

That section (above) is from an archive of the talk page of the
Wikipedia "Unite the Right rally".

Trump's exact comment appears to be this:

"But you also had people that were very fine people on both
sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me.
I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that
group that were there to protest the taking down, of to
them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a
park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

What many people don't seem to realize is that a big part of what was
going on back then was statue-removal, and the "fine people on both
sides" was referring to the debate surrounding the removal (or keeping)
those statues.

On 8/9/19 9:19 PM, Home Guy wrote:
What many people don't seem to realize is that a big part of what was
going on back then was statue-removal, and the "fine people on both
sides" was referring to the debate surrounding the removal (or keeping)
those statues.

It was on purpose. Their is no Izvestia in Pravda and no
Pravda in Izvestia (there is not news in the truth and no
truth in the news).

This is a page out of Soviet Cold War propaganda techniques.
Our Lefties learned well from the Soviets.

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 5:10:33 AM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 8/9/19 9:19 PM, Home Guy wrote:
What many people don't seem to realize is that a big part of what was
going on back then was statue-removal, and the "fine people on both
sides" was referring to the debate surrounding the removal (or keeping)
those statues.

It was on purpose. Their is no Izvestia in Pravda and no
Pravda in Izvestia (there is not news in the truth and no
truth in the news).

This is a page out of Soviet Cold War propaganda techniques.
Our Lefties learned well from the Soviets.

You're such a liar. You're lying to support racism and racists.
Any observer of who the organizers of the rally in Charlottesville were,
who the planned attendees were, who was actually there, knew perfectly
well what this was about. Did you even look at the news story of
the attendees, what they were chanting, see them giving Nazi salutes?
They were not chanting about a Robert E Lee statute, they were chanting
anti-Semitic hate at Jews.
It's like Nazis in Germany having a rally about the issue of a national
holiday, featuring Herman Goering and Adolf Eichmann, with the crowd
carrying torches, shouting death to the Jews and giving heil Hitler
salutes and trying to claim that's a rally about a "holiday".
Trump and people like you really disgust me. It's why I'm no longer a
member of the GOP.

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 12:17:31 AM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
trader_4 wrote:

It's not a lie, it's pretty much what Trump said. Speaking about what
went on with the protests and riots in Charlottesville, Trump said
that there were "very fine people on both sides".


The following (below) is from he

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...id=8 94934372

===============
I think the problem here is that the positioning of the "very fine
people on both sides" quote implies that Trump considered the Nazis and
white supremacists to be "very fine people", which is not what he was
saying. I think any reasonable reading of the above RSs and the
transcript will show that the point Trump was making was as follows:
tl;dr Trump says: Very not fine people, to blame, should be condemned:
White nationalists/neo-Nazis, violent alt-left. Very fine people, not to
blame: People on the right there to peacefully protest the taking down
of the statue, people on the left there to peacefully protest.

I think this can be clarified even without adding new content; just
reordering the existing text could do a lot. -- Ununseti (talk) 00:39,
21 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment - the sudden increase in editors attempting to "correct" this
quote is likely related to Joel Pollock's segment on Breitbart News
Tonight this past Monday, 18 March 2019 ([5]). EvergreenFir (talk)
05:38, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
It has also been discussed recently in Scott Adams' podcast. From the
transcript of Trump's statement, it is clear the "very fine people"
referred explicitly to the opposing sides of the monument debate. The
full quote is "But you also had people that were very fine people on
both sides. You had people in that group €“ excuse me, excuse me. I saw
the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were
there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important
statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
Trump clarifies it a few sentences later when he says "I'm not talking
about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be
condemned totally." The article, at present, does not do a good job of
clarifying this point, and in fact somewhat misleads the reader. Mr
Ernie (talk) 09:18, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
===============

That section (above) is from an archive of the talk page of the
Wikipedia "Unite the Right rally".

Trump's exact comment appears to be this:

"But you also had people that were very fine people on both
sides. You had people in that group €“ excuse me, excuse me.
I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that
group that were there to protest the taking down, of to
them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a
park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

What many people don't seem to realize is that a big part of what was
going on back then was statue-removal, and the "fine people on both
sides" was referring to the debate surrounding the removal (or keeping)
those statues.

No, what YOU and people like you don't realize is that this is pure BS.
Actually, you probably do realize it, but you admitted the other day that
you are a racist, so your motive here is obvious. Did you even bother to
read the article I provided? Were those anti-Semitic chants about a
statute? Were those heil Hitler salutes about Robert E Lee? Did these
scum stand bearing rifles outside a synagogue because of a statute?
Just how stupid do you think people are? The KKK, neo-Nazis, David Duke,
Richard Spencer, David Kessler, are not very fine people. And no decent,
fine people would ever join their white supremacist rally. It really is
that simple. So, stop with the Trump and trumptard lies that this was
about a rally with very fine people about a statute.

trader_4 wrote:

No, what YOU and people like you don't realize is that this is pure
BS.

Hey traitor_4,

Aren't you late for your monthly Antifa NJ chapter meet and greet?

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 9:48:35 AM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
trader_4 wrote:

No, what YOU and people like you don't realize is that this is pure
BS.

Hey traitor_4,

Aren't you late for your monthly Antifa NJ chapter meet and greet?

No, I don't participate, I condemn their actions. Aren't you late
for your monthly white supremacist meet and greet. You know the ones
like they had at Charlottesville? I hear "very fine people" go to them.

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 06:37:58 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 12:17:31 AM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
trader_4 wrote:

It's not a lie, it's pretty much what Trump said. Speaking about what
went on with the protests and riots in Charlottesville, Trump said
that there were "very fine people on both sides".


The following (below) is from he

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...id=8 94934372

===============
I think the problem here is that the positioning of the "very fine
people on both sides" quote implies that Trump considered the Nazis and
white supremacists to be "very fine people", which is not what he was
saying. I think any reasonable reading of the above RSs and the
transcript will show that the point Trump was making was as follows:
tl;dr Trump says: Very not fine people, to blame, should be condemned:
White nationalists/neo-Nazis, violent alt-left. Very fine people, not to
blame: People on the right there to peacefully protest the taking down
of the statue, people on the left there to peacefully protest.

I think this can be clarified even without adding new content; just
reordering the existing text could do a lot. -- Ununseti (talk) 00:39,
21 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment - the sudden increase in editors attempting to "correct" this
quote is likely related to Joel Pollock's segment on Breitbart News
Tonight this past Monday, 18 March 2019 ([5]). EvergreenFir (talk)
05:38, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
It has also been discussed recently in Scott Adams' podcast. From the
transcript of Trump's statement, it is clear the "very fine people"
referred explicitly to the opposing sides of the monument debate. The
full quote is "But you also had people that were very fine people on
both sides. You had people in that group €“ excuse me, excuse me. I saw
the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were
there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important
statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
Trump clarifies it a few sentences later when he says "I'm not talking
about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be
condemned totally." The article, at present, does not do a good job of
clarifying this point, and in fact somewhat misleads the reader. Mr
Ernie (talk) 09:18, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
===============

That section (above) is from an archive of the talk page of the
Wikipedia "Unite the Right rally".

Trump's exact comment appears to be this:

"But you also had people that were very fine people on both
sides. You had people in that group €“ excuse me, excuse me.
I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that
group that were there to protest the taking down, of to
them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a
park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

What many people don't seem to realize is that a big part of what was
going on back then was statue-removal, and the "fine people on both
sides" was referring to the debate surrounding the removal (or keeping)
those statues.

No, what YOU and people like you don't realize is that this is pure BS.
Actually, you probably do realize it, but you admitted the other day that
you are a racist, so your motive here is obvious. Did you even bother to
read the article I provided? Were those anti-Semitic chants about a
statute? Were those heil Hitler salutes about Robert E Lee? Did these
scum stand bearing rifles outside a synagogue because of a statute?
Just how stupid do you think people are? The KKK, neo-Nazis, David Duke,
Richard Spencer, David Kessler, are not very fine people. And no decent,
fine people would ever join their white supremacist rally. It really is
that simple. So, stop with the Trump and trumptard lies that this was
about a rally with very fine people about a statute.

You have the same problem as most north easterners. You assume anyone
who wants to preserve any hint of southern culture must be a skin head
nazi racist.
Remember if it wasn't for that new england sea faring culture and the
desire for cheap cotton to feed their mills, we would not have had
slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should march through new
england tearing down all of those sailor memorials.

You also need to remember Robert E Lee inherited George Washington's
slaves. Are we going to take down the Washington Monument and blow up
the Jefferson Memorial next? Actually in the current political climate
it wouldn't shock me. They were traitors against their government too.

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 06:32:37 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 5:10:33 AM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 8/9/19 9:19 PM, Home Guy wrote:
What many people don't seem to realize is that a big part of what was
going on back then was statue-removal, and the "fine people on both
sides" was referring to the debate surrounding the removal (or keeping)
those statues.

It was on purpose. Their is no Izvestia in Pravda and no
Pravda in Izvestia (there is not news in the truth and no
truth in the news).

This is a page out of Soviet Cold War propaganda techniques.
Our Lefties learned well from the Soviets.

You're such a liar. You're lying to support racism and racists.
Any observer of who the organizers of the rally in Charlottesville were,
who the planned attendees were, who was actually there, knew perfectly
well what this was about. Did you even look at the news story of
the attendees, what they were chanting, see them giving Nazi salutes?
They were not chanting about a Robert E Lee statute, they were chanting
anti-Semitic hate at Jews.
It's like Nazis in Germany having a rally about the issue of a national
holiday, featuring Herman Goering and Adolf Eichmann, with the crowd
carrying torches, shouting death to the Jews and giving heil Hitler
salutes and trying to claim that's a rally about a "holiday".
Trump and people like you really disgust me. It's why I'm no longer a
member of the GOP.

Do you think anyone would want to watch peaceful protestors? The TV
people will find the most outrageous people they can find and present
them as the whole protest.

On 08/10/2019 11:06 AM, wrote:
Remember if it wasn't for that new england sea faring culture and the
desire for cheap cotton to feed their mills, we would not have had
slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should march through new
england tearing down all of those sailor memorials.

The first slaves predated the cotton industry. Many were used in tobacco
production. Because of the labor intensiveness of separating cotton seed
from the bolls it wasn't until Whitney, another Yankee, invented the
cotton gin that cotton farming became profitable and slave owning given
a boost.

The industrial revolution created many slaves; most of them were wage
slaves. Why go to the expense of owning a slave where you can hire them
by the day and discard them when you don't need them anymore?

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 1:10:25 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 06:32:37 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 5:10:33 AM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 8/9/19 9:19 PM, Home Guy wrote:
What many people don't seem to realize is that a big part of what was
going on back then was statue-removal, and the "fine people on both
sides" was referring to the debate surrounding the removal (or keeping)
those statues.

It was on purpose. Their is no Izvestia in Pravda and no
Pravda in Izvestia (there is not news in the truth and no
truth in the news).

This is a page out of Soviet Cold War propaganda techniques.
Our Lefties learned well from the Soviets.

You're such a liar. You're lying to support racism and racists.
Any observer of who the organizers of the rally in Charlottesville were,
who the planned attendees were, who was actually there, knew perfectly
well what this was about. Did you even look at the news story of
the attendees, what they were chanting, see them giving Nazi salutes?
They were not chanting about a Robert E Lee statute, they were chanting
anti-Semitic hate at Jews.
It's like Nazis in Germany having a rally about the issue of a national
holiday, featuring Herman Goering and Adolf Eichmann, with the crowd
carrying torches, shouting death to the Jews and giving heil Hitler
salutes and trying to claim that's a rally about a "holiday".
Trump and people like you really disgust me. It's why I'm no longer a
member of the GOP.

Do you think anyone would want to watch peaceful protestors? The TV
people will find the most outrageous people they can find and present
them as the whole protest.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? And most of the
protests in Charlottesville over two days were peaceful, including
that despicable example of those giving the heil Hitler salutes and
carrying torches. They were peaceful white supremacists, does that make
them very fine people?

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 1:06:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 06:37:58 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 12:17:31 AM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
trader_4 wrote:

It's not a lie, it's pretty much what Trump said. Speaking about what
went on with the protests and riots in Charlottesville, Trump said
that there were "very fine people on both sides".


The following (below) is from he

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...id=8 94934372

===============
I think the problem here is that the positioning of the "very fine
people on both sides" quote implies that Trump considered the Nazis and
white supremacists to be "very fine people", which is not what he was
saying. I think any reasonable reading of the above RSs and the
transcript will show that the point Trump was making was as follows:
tl;dr Trump says: Very not fine people, to blame, should be condemned:
White nationalists/neo-Nazis, violent alt-left. Very fine people, not to
blame: People on the right there to peacefully protest the taking down
of the statue, people on the left there to peacefully protest.

I think this can be clarified even without adding new content; just
reordering the existing text could do a lot. -- Ununseti (talk) 00:39,
21 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment - the sudden increase in editors attempting to "correct" this
quote is likely related to Joel Pollock's segment on Breitbart News
Tonight this past Monday, 18 March 2019 ([5]). EvergreenFir (talk)
05:38, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
It has also been discussed recently in Scott Adams' podcast. From the
transcript of Trump's statement, it is clear the "very fine people"
referred explicitly to the opposing sides of the monument debate. The
full quote is "But you also had people that were very fine people on
both sides. You had people in that group €“ excuse me, excuse me. I saw
the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were
there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important
statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
Trump clarifies it a few sentences later when he says "I'm not talking
about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be
condemned totally." The article, at present, does not do a good job of
clarifying this point, and in fact somewhat misleads the reader. Mr
Ernie (talk) 09:18, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
===============

That section (above) is from an archive of the talk page of the
Wikipedia "Unite the Right rally".

Trump's exact comment appears to be this:

"But you also had people that were very fine people on both
sides. You had people in that group €“ excuse me, excuse me..
I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that
group that were there to protest the taking down, of to
them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a
park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

What many people don't seem to realize is that a big part of what was
going on back then was statue-removal, and the "fine people on both
sides" was referring to the debate surrounding the removal (or keeping)
those statues.

No, what YOU and people like you don't realize is that this is pure BS.
Actually, you probably do realize it, but you admitted the other day that
you are a racist, so your motive here is obvious. Did you even bother to
read the article I provided? Were those anti-Semitic chants about a
statute? Were those heil Hitler salutes about Robert E Lee? Did these
scum stand bearing rifles outside a synagogue because of a statute?
Just how stupid do you think people are? The KKK, neo-Nazis, David Duke,
Richard Spencer, David Kessler, are not very fine people. And no decent,
fine people would ever join their white supremacist rally. It really is
that simple. So, stop with the Trump and trumptard lies that this was
about a rally with very fine people about a statute.

You have the same problem as most north easterners. You assume anyone
who wants to preserve any hint of southern culture must be a skin head
nazi racist.

That is one outrageous lie, but not unexpected. I never said anything like
that, I never made any assumptions. All I did was look at the FACTS.
AGain, this was not a protest
about a statute. It wasn't organized by locals, wasn't organized by the
some Confederate history group. It was organized by two despicable white
nationalists. It wasn't called the Robert E Lee statute rally, it was
called "Unite the Right". And the right representing was KKK, neo-Nazis,
David Duke, and similar ilk. Again, they were standing outside a SYNAGOGUE
brandishing arms, on a Sat as Jews were inside worshiping. What's next?
Are you going to tell us they were just confused and thought Robert E Lee
was in there? They were carrying torches and chanting anti-Semitic slogans
as they marched across the U of VA campus. Those are the "very fine people".





Remember if it wasn't for that new england sea faring culture and the
desire for cheap cotton to feed their mills, we would not have had
slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should march through new
england tearing down all of those sailor memorials.

You also need to remember Robert E Lee

You need to learn what this rally really was and that it was not about
Robert E Lee. Like I said, I suppose if in Nazi Germany there was a
march that was supposed to be about some new national holiday issue
and it was organized by Herman Goering and Eichmann, attended by Nazis
giving Hitler salutes and chanting about Jews, that would just be a march
of very fine people concerned about a holiday.

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 11:59:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 1:06:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 06:37:58 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 12:17:31 AM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
trader_4 wrote:

It's not a lie, it's pretty much what Trump said. Speaking about what
went on with the protests and riots in Charlottesville, Trump said
that there were "very fine people on both sides".


The following (below) is from he

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...id=8 94934372

===============
I think the problem here is that the positioning of the "very fine
people on both sides" quote implies that Trump considered the Nazis and
white supremacists to be "very fine people", which is not what he was
saying. I think any reasonable reading of the above RSs and the
transcript will show that the point Trump was making was as follows:
tl;dr Trump says: Very not fine people, to blame, should be condemned:
White nationalists/neo-Nazis, violent alt-left. Very fine people, not to
blame: People on the right there to peacefully protest the taking down
of the statue, people on the left there to peacefully protest.

I think this can be clarified even without adding new content; just
reordering the existing text could do a lot. -- Ununseti (talk) 00:39,
21 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment - the sudden increase in editors attempting to "correct" this
quote is likely related to Joel Pollock's segment on Breitbart News
Tonight this past Monday, 18 March 2019 ([5]). EvergreenFir (talk)
05:38, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
It has also been discussed recently in Scott Adams' podcast. From the
transcript of Trump's statement, it is clear the "very fine people"
referred explicitly to the opposing sides of the monument debate. The
full quote is "But you also had people that were very fine people on
both sides. You had people in that group €“ excuse me, excuse me. I saw
the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were
there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important
statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
Trump clarifies it a few sentences later when he says "I'm not talking
about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be
condemned totally." The article, at present, does not do a good job of
clarifying this point, and in fact somewhat misleads the reader. Mr
Ernie (talk) 09:18, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
===============

That section (above) is from an archive of the talk page of the
Wikipedia "Unite the Right rally".

Trump's exact comment appears to be this:

"But you also had people that were very fine people on both
sides. You had people in that group €“ excuse me, excuse me.
I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that
group that were there to protest the taking down, of to
them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a
park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

What many people don't seem to realize is that a big part of what was
going on back then was statue-removal, and the "fine people on both
sides" was referring to the debate surrounding the removal (or keeping)
those statues.

No, what YOU and people like you don't realize is that this is pure BS.
Actually, you probably do realize it, but you admitted the other day that
you are a racist, so your motive here is obvious. Did you even bother to
read the article I provided? Were those anti-Semitic chants about a
statute? Were those heil Hitler salutes about Robert E Lee? Did these
scum stand bearing rifles outside a synagogue because of a statute?
Just how stupid do you think people are? The KKK, neo-Nazis, David Duke,
Richard Spencer, David Kessler, are not very fine people. And no decent,
fine people would ever join their white supremacist rally. It really is
that simple. So, stop with the Trump and trumptard lies that this was
about a rally with very fine people about a statute.

You have the same problem as most north easterners. You assume anyone
who wants to preserve any hint of southern culture must be a skin head
nazi racist.

That is one outrageous lie, but not unexpected. I never said anything like
that, I never made any assumptions. All I did was look at the FACTS.
AGain, this was not a protest
about a statute. It wasn't organized by locals, wasn't organized by the
some Confederate history group. It was organized by two despicable white
nationalists. It wasn't called the Robert E Lee statute rally, it was
called "Unite the Right". And the right representing was KKK, neo-Nazis,
David Duke, and similar ilk. Again, they were standing outside a SYNAGOGUE
brandishing arms, on a Sat as Jews were inside worshiping. What's next?
Are you going to tell us they were just confused and thought Robert E Lee
was in there? They were carrying torches and chanting anti-Semitic slogans
as they marched across the U of VA campus. Those are the "very fine people".



The only "Facts" you know was shot through a lens of a TV station with
an agenda, to pump ratings. Nobody wants to see peaceful protesters.


Remember if it wasn't for that new england sea faring culture and the
desire for cheap cotton to feed their mills, we would not have had
slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should march through new
england tearing down all of those sailor memorials.

You also need to remember Robert E Lee

You need to learn what this rally really was and that it was not about
Robert E Lee. Like I said, I suppose if in Nazi Germany there was a
march that was supposed to be about some new national holiday issue
and it was organized by Herman Goering and Eichmann, attended by Nazis
giving Hitler salutes and chanting about Jews, that would just be a march
of very fine people concerned about a holiday.

See above. Nobody would tune in if they just showed the other people
there. It is better to incite division. Conflict sells beer on TV

.... or maybe you think everything on TV is real.

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:15:57 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/10/2019 11:06 AM, wrote:
Remember if it wasn't for that new england sea faring culture and the
desire for cheap cotton to feed their mills, we would not have had
slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should march through new
england tearing down all of those sailor memorials.

The first slaves predated the cotton industry. Many were used in tobacco
production. Because of the labor intensiveness of separating cotton seed
from the bolls it wasn't until Whitney, another Yankee, invented the
cotton gin that cotton farming became profitable and slave owning given
a boost.

The industrial revolution created many slaves; most of them were wage
slaves. Why go to the expense of owning a slave where you can hire them
by the day and discard them when you don't need them anymore?

This is why I say they could have ended slavery in a couple years in
the south without the war. They just needed the coal company guys to
explain to plantation owners how you can keep your cheap labor without
****ing off the abolitionists. Free the slaves, then hire them back
at a wage that barely covers their living expenses at the "plantation"
(AKA company) store. Most of them would stay, as they did. It would be
100 years until the government got around to looking at how we treated
coal miners or the "freed" slaves.

In article ,
says...

The industrial revolution created many slaves; most of them were wage
slaves. Why go to the expense of owning a slave where you can hire them
by the day and discard them when you don't need them anymore?

This is why I say they could have ended slavery in a couple years in
the south without the war. They just needed the coal company guys to
explain to plantation owners how you can keep your cheap labor without
****ing off the abolitionists. Free the slaves, then hire them back
at a wage that barely covers their living expenses at the "plantation"
(AKA company) store. Most of them would stay, as they did. It would be
100 years until the government got around to looking at how we treated
coal miners or the "freed" slaves.




A good portion of the US are 'wage slaves' now. Take most any company
and if there is a slack period you get layed off. Then if business
picks up , you get taken back.

Many of us that have jobs are really slaves to the ones that are too
sorry to work.I feel that I have been a slave like that for many years.

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 5:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:


The only "Facts" you know was shot through a lens of a TV station with
an agenda, to pump ratings. Nobody wants to see peaceful protesters.

There were all kinds of reporters there, including ones from Fox News
covering the event. I've seen A LOT of coverage, I'd be willing to bet
a lot more than you, Mr. T, Frank, or Trump. They did show the peaceful
protests, I even gave you a link to the story showing the peaceful white
supremacists carrying torches, shouting anti-Semitic slogans, marching.
So, WTF are you talking about?
If you or anyone else has reports, videos showing that the ALt Right
Rally (note it's not the RE Lee Statute rally), was anything other that
a white supremacist rally, go ahead and present them here. That is how
things work, or at least how they used to work, pre-Trump. There is
abundant evidence that this was a white supremacist event, starting
with the two organizers, for Christ's sake. You're claiming
it was not, Trump is claiming it was "very fine people", so show us.
Show us these very fine people. You won't because you can't. And if
no one saw them, then how does Trump know they exist? He wasn't there.





Remember if it wasn't for that new england sea faring culture and the
desire for cheap cotton to feed their mills, we would not have had
slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should march through new
england tearing down all of those sailor memorials.

You also need to remember Robert E Lee

You need to learn what this rally really was and that it was not about
Robert E Lee. Like I said, I suppose if in Nazi Germany there was a
march that was supposed to be about some new national holiday issue
and it was organized by Herman Goering and Eichmann, attended by Nazis
giving Hitler salutes and chanting about Jews, that would just be a march
of very fine people concerned about a holiday.

See above. Nobody would tune in if they just showed the other people
there.


You obviously just do not get it. Very fine people would not attend a rally
organized by Goering and Eichmann, featuring Nazis, no matter what the
attempt at a fig leaf for cover was. In the case of VA, this event, who
was behind it, the white racists that were coming, the KKK, neo-Nazis,
was well known BEFORE it ever took place. The local people of Charlottesville,
the mayor, the governor did everything they could to block them, to prevent
it, because they knew who they were. Those were the "very fine people".
And even if you somehow did
not know, once you saw Nazis giving Hitler salutes, carrying torches,
standing armed outside a synagogue, shouting anit-Semitic slogans,
you would not join them. That's what very fine people do. It really is
that simple. And the fact that
Trump says they are very fine people and that there are people who try
to twist, lie and distort to cover for him, is a really, really low point
for this country, one that I never thought I'd see.



It is better to incite division. Conflict sells beer on TV

Sure. It's not that VA was organized by two white supremacists. IT's not
that people knew in advance that the KKK, neo-Nazis, David Duke and all
that pond scum was coming. IT's not that they carried torches, shouted
anti-Semitic slogans, terrorized Jews worshiping, just like a scene out of
Nazi Germay. No, it's the media covering it. And you know why they didn't
show normal decent people? Do I really have to explain that? There were
none there, because they were revolted by those sponsoring this attrocity
and those participating in it.






... or maybe you think everything on TV is real.

Typical. Just like Trump. Anything that doesn't fit your narrative,
why it's just fake news and then you make up whatever BS and lies
fit what you want. Sad, really, really sad.

trader_4 wrote:

Typical. Just like Trump. Anything that doesn't fit your
narrative, why it's just fake news and then you make up
whatever BS and lies fit what you want.

Why don't you get a ****ing grip.

Do you think Trump is stupid enough to outright praise the KKK or
so-called White Supremists?

Trump doesn't need to praise them to win their vote, because they ain't
gonna vote democrat in the next election.

You are truly a moron to be constantly con'd by the media and their
twisted reporting.

And when those on the right (the right of any flavor or stripe) organize
an event, why do your precious liberals and leftists have to show up?
You know why. Because they want to crack some heads. They come looking
for trouble and they are eager for it, and the media will cover them
with loving, glowing reports.

You want peace in the union?

You let the south put up statues of their heroes.

Otherwise by tearing down their statues you are telling them their
history doesn't matter, they lost the war, we're going to erase who you
are and what you were from all of history.

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 5:51:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:15:57 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/10/2019 11:06 AM, wrote:
Remember if it wasn't for that new england sea faring culture and the
desire for cheap cotton to feed their mills, we would not have had
slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should march through new
england tearing down all of those sailor memorials.

The first slaves predated the cotton industry. Many were used in tobacco
production. Because of the labor intensiveness of separating cotton seed
from the bolls it wasn't until Whitney, another Yankee, invented the
cotton gin that cotton farming became profitable and slave owning given
a boost.

The industrial revolution created many slaves; most of them were wage
slaves. Why go to the expense of owning a slave where you can hire them
by the day and discard them when you don't need them anymore?

This is why I say they could have ended slavery in a couple years in
the south without the war. They just needed the coal company guys to
explain to plantation owners how you can keep your cheap labor without
****ing off the abolitionists. Free the slaves, then hire them back
at a wage that barely covers their living expenses at the "plantation"
(AKA company) store. Most of them would stay, as they did. It would be
100 years until the government got around to looking at how we treated
coal miners or the "freed" slaves.

Too bad we don't have a time machine so we could transport you, Capt Monday
Morning Quaterback, back in time and let you fix everything.

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 6:10:21 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

The industrial revolution created many slaves; most of them were wage
slaves. Why go to the expense of owning a slave where you can hire them
by the day and discard them when you don't need them anymore?

This is why I say they could have ended slavery in a couple years in
the south without the war. They just needed the coal company guys to
explain to plantation owners how you can keep your cheap labor without
****ing off the abolitionists. Free the slaves, then hire them back
at a wage that barely covers their living expenses at the "plantation"
(AKA company) store. Most of them would stay, as they did. It would be
100 years until the government got around to looking at how we treated
coal miners or the "freed" slaves.




A good portion of the US are 'wage slaves' now. Take most any company
and if there is a slack period you get layed off. Then if business
picks up , you get taken back.

This is a new concept? How does that make anyone a "wage slave"?




Many of us that have jobs are really slaves to the ones that are too
sorry to work.I feel that I have been a slave like that for many years.

That's true, but good luck fixing that. And it sure will never happen
with a lying shyster in the White House. The backlash against Trump has
the real possibility of putting a crazy lib in the WH and the Democrats
in control of the Senate too. Better hope for Joe.

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 7:38:00 PM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
trader_4 wrote:

Typical. Just like Trump. Anything that doesn't fit your
narrative, why it's just fake news and then you make up
whatever BS and lies fit what you want.

Why don't you get a ****ing grip.

Do you think Trump is stupid enough to outright praise the KKK or
so-called White Supremists?

Trump's stupidity knows no bounds, so yes, I think that's still a
possibility. But so far he tries to keep it under cover, to dog
whistle to them. His "very fine people" comment about people who
were neo-Nazis, the KKK and white supremacists pretty much exposed
him though. That was praising them. But there is still plenty of time
left for more.




Trump doesn't need to praise them to win their vote, because they ain't
gonna vote democrat in the next election.

But they may just not vote. Trump needs their vote and figures that
besides the actual openly white supremacists, there are plenty of people
in America who sympathize with them and he needs to keep their votes.
That's why Trump has such a hard time denouncing Nazis. It took two
days of the press pursuing him, until he finally did that after Charlottesville.
Imagine that, a president, a politician, that has to be forced to
condemn Nazis, the KKK and white supremacists.

And then just two days later, he couldn't stand it anymore and went
ballistic at Trump Tower. That's where he said there were very fine people
there with the neo-Nazis, KKK, Richard Kessler, David Duke and similar
pond scum. We have it on video! And the rally that wasn't a
"Save the Lee Statue" rally. It was a white supremacist, "Unite the Right",
rally. They wanted to
unite the white supremacists, the KKK and normalize them, as part of
the right, part of the GOP, part of Trump's movement. Trump helped them.





You are truly a moron to be constantly con'd by the media and their
twisted reporting.

Typical. Deny the facts. Do you deny that it was not billed as a "Save the Lee
Statue" rally? That is was billed as a "Unite the Right Rally"? That
it was organized by Richard Spencer and Jason Kessler, two white supremacists?
That it featured the KKK, neo-Nazis and David Duke? I gave you the cite
showing white supremacists marching across the U of VA campus, carrying
torches and shouting anti-Semitic slogans, not slogans about a statue.
Do you deny that? Do you deny that these armed pond scum stood with rifles
outside a synagogue, as Jews were inside worshiping? Did they think the
statue was in there? No, it's very, very clear what this "rally" was
and you're not going to lie your way out of it. Your motivation here is
obvious, just the other day you admitted you're a racist, so of course
you're going to try to claim this is all perfectly OK.



And when those on the right (the right of any flavor or stripe) organize
an event, why do your precious liberals and leftists have to show up?

They are not my liberals or leftists. I'm a conservative. But I'm
glad they showed up to oppose white supremacists, they should be opposed
and called out for the evil pond scum that they are. It's what Americans
do, they oppose evil.



You know why. Because they want to crack some heads. They come looking
for trouble and they are eager for it, and the media will cover them
with loving, glowing reports.

You want peace in the union?

You let the south put up statues of their heroes.

That rally had nothing whatever to do with the statue. It was just
an excuse for white supremacist pond scum to come from across the
country. It's not their statue, it's not their town. Most don't
even live in the state, like the pond scum white supremacist that drove
his car into the crowd. The "South" is doing whatever the "South"
wants to do. These pond scum just wanted rallies to promote their
disgusting, vile, white supremacy, to threaten Jews, to put on
Swastikas and give Hitler salutes.




Otherwise by tearing down their statues you are telling them their
history doesn't matter, they lost the war, we're going to erase who you
are and what you were from all of history.

Oh, please. Decisions like this are being made as they should be by
the local towns. Spencer, David Duke, Kessler, the rest of that pond
scum don't live in Charlottesville.

rbowman wrote:

The first slaves predated the cotton industry. Many were used in
tobacco production.

And they were, apparently, white:

=============
Virginia foundered during its early years and survived only through the
good will and, when the colonists had exhausted that, the extorted
tribute of the indigenous Indians. But during the second decade of the
seventeenth century, Virginia discovered its vocation: the growing of
tobacco. The first boom in what would eventually become the United
States took place during the 1620s, and it rested primarily on the backs
of English indentured servants, not African slaves. Not until late in
the century, after the boom had passed, did landowners begin buying
slaves in large numbers, first from the West Indies and, after 1680,
from Africa itself. During the high years of the boom it was the
‘free-born’ Englishman who became, as one historian put it, ‘a machine
to make tobacco for somebody else’.

https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/276...tes-of-america
==============

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 17:32:54 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 5:51:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:15:57 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/10/2019 11:06 AM, wrote:
Remember if it wasn't for that new england sea faring culture and the
desire for cheap cotton to feed their mills, we would not have had
slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should march through new
england tearing down all of those sailor memorials.

The first slaves predated the cotton industry. Many were used in tobacco
production. Because of the labor intensiveness of separating cotton seed
from the bolls it wasn't until Whitney, another Yankee, invented the
cotton gin that cotton farming became profitable and slave owning given
a boost.

The industrial revolution created many slaves; most of them were wage
slaves. Why go to the expense of owning a slave where you can hire them
by the day and discard them when you don't need them anymore?

This is why I say they could have ended slavery in a couple years in
the south without the war. They just needed the coal company guys to
explain to plantation owners how you can keep your cheap labor without
****ing off the abolitionists. Free the slaves, then hire them back
at a wage that barely covers their living expenses at the "plantation"
(AKA company) store. Most of them would stay, as they did. It would be
100 years until the government got around to looking at how we treated
coal miners or the "freed" slaves.

Too bad we don't have a time machine so we could transport you, Capt Monday
Morning Quaterback, back in time and let you fix everything.

The question is whether it was the right thing to do to have a war
that destroyed half the country and killed 3% of the population when
there may have been a peaceful solution.
It is clear the war didn't really solve anything. The freed slaves
became lower paid than the coal miners I referenced as an example.
Most ended back at the same basic jobs, certainly making a wage but
not a wage they could live on. !00 years of Jim Crow was not really
freedom anyway.
As for the war itself...
I understand that, to neocons like you, there was never a war you
didn't like but it is not always the answer.
You are still defending Afghanistan and it really looks like, after
decades of war there, we are going to give it back to the Taliban. It
will happen faster if the democrats take over than Trump would do it.

On 8/9/19 5:07 PM, Frank wrote:
On 8/9/2019 7:06 PM, troll_4 wrote:
On 8/9/19 5:22 PM, trader_4 wrote:
It's not a lie, it's pretty much what Trump said. Speaking about what
went on with the protests and riots in Charlottesville, Trump said
that there were "very fine people on both sides".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gna0HaiZcHA

Our traitor has selective hearing.

He hears correctly. It is on purpose.

On 8/10/19 4:40 PM, Home Guy wrote:
Otherwise by tearing down their statues you are telling them their
history doesn't matter, they lost the war, we're going to erase who you
are and what you were from all of history.

Lincoln gave all the Southern Solders a blanked amnesty.
I would think that goes for their statues too. A
lot of them were fighting to protect their homes.

trader_4 wrote:

They are not my liberals or leftists. I'm a conservative. But I'm
glad they showed up to oppose white supremacists,

They accomplish nothing by doing it. Other than being injured or being
arrested for injuring someone else.

It's what Americans do, they oppose evil.

When you're not comiting war crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and
Syria that is.

Your motivation here is obvious, just the other day you admitted
you're a racist, so of course you're going to try to claim this
is all perfectly OK.

Look.

I have basically no first-hand life experience living with, or near, or
working with or going to school with blacks.

So I really don't have an opportunity to be "racist" when it comes to
being anti-black.

Now I have lived my life so far within 100 miles of Detroit, so I'm
pretty familiar with what life looks like there over the past 4 or so
decades. But it's still largely an abstraction for me, and it is for
most Canadians (except those in Toronto and I guess Montreal also).

The growing number of muslims in Canada (and in my neighborhood) is of
more concern to me, and in that regard it's the ideology of the muslim
that I take issue with more than their "race" or genetics. I am just as
disgusted with whites that convert to islam (not that I've known or met
any of those, but apparently they do exist).

If I had to choose who my neighbors are or who my co-workers are or who
my kids had to go to school with, I would choose blacks (non-muslim
type) and jews (and orientals, and hispanics) any day of the week over
muslims. Hopefully there would also be some whites thrown into that
mix...

On 08/10/2019 07:39 PM, Home Guy wrote:
rbowman wrote:

The first slaves predated the cotton industry. Many were used in
tobacco production.
And they were, apparently, white:

In theory an indentured servant can see the light at the end of the
tunnel. iirc 7 years was the term of indenture in most cases.

On 8/10/19 10:47 PM, Home Guy wrote:
trader_4 wrote:

They are not my liberals or leftists. I'm a conservative. But I'm
glad they showed up to oppose white supremacists,

They accomplish nothing by doing it. Other than being injured or being
arrested for injuring someone else.

It's what Americans do, they oppose evil.

When you're not comiting war crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and
Syria that is.

Your motivation here is obvious, just the other day you admitted
you're a racist, so of course you're going to try to claim this
is all perfectly OK.

Look.

I have basically no first-hand life experience living with, or near, or
working with or going to school with blacks.

So I really don't have an opportunity to be "racist" when it comes to
being anti-black.

Now I have lived my life so far within 100 miles of Detroit, so I'm
pretty familiar with what life looks like there over the past 4 or so
decades. But it's still largely an abstraction for me, and it is for
most Canadians (except those in Toronto and I guess Montreal also).

The growing number of muslims in Canada (and in my neighborhood) is of
more concern to me, and in that regard it's the ideology of the muslim
that I take issue with more than their "race" or genetics. I am just as
disgusted with whites that convert to islam (not that I've known or met
any of those, but apparently they do exist).

If I had to choose who my neighbors are or who my co-workers are or who
my kids had to go to school with, I would choose blacks (non-muslim
type) and jews (and orientals, and hispanics) any day of the week over
muslims. Hopefully there would also be some whites thrown into that
mix...



As long as they're genuine authentic Republicans, I don't care what color they are.
It's Pelosi's taxsucking socialist welfarecrats I don't like.

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 10:11:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 17:32:54 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 5:51:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:15:57 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/10/2019 11:06 AM, wrote:
Remember if it wasn't for that new england sea faring culture and the
desire for cheap cotton to feed their mills, we would not have had
slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should march through new
england tearing down all of those sailor memorials.

The first slaves predated the cotton industry. Many were used in tobacco
production. Because of the labor intensiveness of separating cotton seed
from the bolls it wasn't until Whitney, another Yankee, invented the
cotton gin that cotton farming became profitable and slave owning given
a boost.

The industrial revolution created many slaves; most of them were wage
slaves. Why go to the expense of owning a slave where you can hire them
by the day and discard them when you don't need them anymore?

This is why I say they could have ended slavery in a couple years in
the south without the war. They just needed the coal company guys to
explain to plantation owners how you can keep your cheap labor without
****ing off the abolitionists. Free the slaves, then hire them back
at a wage that barely covers their living expenses at the "plantation"
(AKA company) store. Most of them would stay, as they did. It would be
100 years until the government got around to looking at how we treated
coal miners or the "freed" slaves.

Too bad we don't have a time machine so we could transport you, Capt Monday
Morning Quaterback, back in time and let you fix everything.

The question is whether it was the right thing to do to have a war
that destroyed half the country and killed 3% of the population when
there may have been a peaceful solution.
It is clear the war didn't really solve anything. The freed slaves
became lower paid than the coal miners I referenced as an example.
Most ended back at the same basic jobs, certainly making a wage but
not a wage they could live on. !00 years of Jim Crow was not really
freedom anyway.
As for the war itself...
I understand that, to neocons like you, there was never a war you
didn't like but it is not always the answer.
You are still defending Afghanistan and it really looks like, after
decades of war there, we are going to give it back to the Taliban. It
will happen faster if the democrats take over than Trump would do it.

It's the graveyard of empires. Ultimately everybody who gets involved
there withdraws.

Cindy Hamilton

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 10:23:45 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 8/9/19 5:07 PM, Frank wrote:
On 8/9/2019 7:06 PM, troll_4 wrote:
On 8/9/19 5:22 PM, trader_4 wrote:
It's not a lie, it's pretty much what Trump said. Speaking about what
went on with the protests and riots in Charlottesville, Trump said
that there were "very fine people on both sides".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gna0HaiZcHA

Our traitor has selective hearing.

He hears correctly. It is on purpose.

Thank you. You are right. I hear correctly and on purpose. You trumptards
hear correctly too, then you lie and distort on purpose.

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 5:41:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 11:59:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 1:06:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 06:37:58 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 12:17:31 AM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
trader_4 wrote:

It's not a lie, it's pretty much what Trump said. Speaking about what
went on with the protests and riots in Charlottesville, Trump said
that there were "very fine people on both sides".


The following (below) is from he

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...id=8 94934372

===============
I think the problem here is that the positioning of the "very fine
people on both sides" quote implies that Trump considered the Nazis and
white supremacists to be "very fine people", which is not what he was
saying. I think any reasonable reading of the above RSs and the
transcript will show that the point Trump was making was as follows:
tl;dr Trump says: Very not fine people, to blame, should be condemned:
White nationalists/neo-Nazis, violent alt-left. Very fine people, not to
blame: People on the right there to peacefully protest the taking down
of the statue, people on the left there to peacefully protest.

I think this can be clarified even without adding new content; just
reordering the existing text could do a lot. -- Ununseti (talk) 00:39,
21 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment - the sudden increase in editors attempting to "correct" this
quote is likely related to Joel Pollock's segment on Breitbart News
Tonight this past Monday, 18 March 2019 ([5]). EvergreenFir (talk)
05:38, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
It has also been discussed recently in Scott Adams' podcast. From the
transcript of Trump's statement, it is clear the "very fine people"
referred explicitly to the opposing sides of the monument debate. The
full quote is "But you also had people that were very fine people on
both sides. You had people in that group €“ excuse me, excuse me. I saw
the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were
there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important
statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
Trump clarifies it a few sentences later when he says "I'm not talking
about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be
condemned totally." The article, at present, does not do a good job of
clarifying this point, and in fact somewhat misleads the reader. Mr
Ernie (talk) 09:18, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
===============

That section (above) is from an archive of the talk page of the
Wikipedia "Unite the Right rally".

Trump's exact comment appears to be this:

"But you also had people that were very fine people on both
sides. You had people in that group €“ excuse me, excuse me.
I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that
group that were there to protest the taking down, of to
them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a
park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

What many people don't seem to realize is that a big part of what was
going on back then was statue-removal, and the "fine people on both
sides" was referring to the debate surrounding the removal (or keeping)
those statues.

No, what YOU and people like you don't realize is that this is pure BS.
Actually, you probably do realize it, but you admitted the other day that
you are a racist, so your motive here is obvious. Did you even bother to
read the article I provided? Were those anti-Semitic chants about a
statute? Were those heil Hitler salutes about Robert E Lee? Did these
scum stand bearing rifles outside a synagogue because of a statute?
Just how stupid do you think people are? The KKK, neo-Nazis, David Duke,
Richard Spencer, David Kessler, are not very fine people. And no decent,
fine people would ever join their white supremacist rally. It really is
that simple. So, stop with the Trump and trumptard lies that this was
about a rally with very fine people about a statute.

You have the same problem as most north easterners. You assume anyone
who wants to preserve any hint of southern culture must be a skin head
nazi racist.

That is one outrageous lie, but not unexpected. I never said anything like
that, I never made any assumptions. All I did was look at the FACTS.
AGain, this was not a protest
about a statute. It wasn't organized by locals, wasn't organized by the
some Confederate history group. It was organized by two despicable white
nationalists. It wasn't called the Robert E Lee statute rally, it was
called "Unite the Right". And the right representing was KKK, neo-Nazis,
David Duke, and similar ilk. Again, they were standing outside a SYNAGOGUE
brandishing arms, on a Sat as Jews were inside worshiping. What's next?
Are you going to tell us they were just confused and thought Robert E Lee
was in there? They were carrying torches and chanting anti-Semitic slogans
as they marched across the U of VA campus. Those are the "very fine people".



The only "Facts" you know was shot through a lens of a TV station with
an agenda, to pump ratings. Nobody wants to see peaceful protesters.


Remember if it wasn't for that new england sea faring culture and the
desire for cheap cotton to feed their mills, we would not have had
slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should march through new
england tearing down all of those sailor memorials.

You also need to remember Robert E Lee

You need to learn what this rally really was and that it was not about
Robert E Lee. Like I said, I suppose if in Nazi Germany there was a
march that was supposed to be about some new national holiday issue
and it was organized by Herman Goering and Eichmann, attended by Nazis
giving Hitler salutes and chanting about Jews, that would just be a march
of very fine people concerned about a holiday.

See above. Nobody would tune in if they just showed the other people
there. It is better to incite division. Conflict sells beer on TV

... or maybe you think everything on TV is real.

Really lame and pathetic, even for you. Ignore all the news, all the factual
reporting, all the pictures, all the videos that we've seen that show what
happened. And instead, conjure up some alternate reality, some fairy tale
and claim that's what happened, it's just that there is no evidence of it.
That's what the Trump WH calls "alternate facts". I'm waiting for you to
show us these allegedly "very fine people" there among the Nazis, the KKK,
David Duke, Spencer, Kessler, the OH murderer that drove his car into the
crowd. Where are they? Any fair, decent person knows the answer. It's
impossible for very fine people to be in any rally with those pond scum.
This was a white supremacist rally, organized by two known white supremacists,
attended by the Nazis, the KKK, and the rest. There were no very fine people,
very fine people could not by definition rally with that scum.

On Sun, 11 Aug 2019 05:38:10 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 10:11:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 17:32:54 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 5:51:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:15:57 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/10/2019 11:06 AM, wrote:
Remember if it wasn't for that new england sea faring culture and the
desire for cheap cotton to feed their mills, we would not have had
slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should march through new
england tearing down all of those sailor memorials.

The first slaves predated the cotton industry. Many were used in tobacco
production. Because of the labor intensiveness of separating cotton seed
from the bolls it wasn't until Whitney, another Yankee, invented the
cotton gin that cotton farming became profitable and slave owning given
a boost.

The industrial revolution created many slaves; most of them were wage
slaves. Why go to the expense of owning a slave where you can hire them
by the day and discard them when you don't need them anymore?

This is why I say they could have ended slavery in a couple years in
the south without the war. They just needed the coal company guys to
explain to plantation owners how you can keep your cheap labor without
****ing off the abolitionists. Free the slaves, then hire them back
at a wage that barely covers their living expenses at the "plantation"
(AKA company) store. Most of them would stay, as they did. It would be
100 years until the government got around to looking at how we treated
coal miners or the "freed" slaves.

Too bad we don't have a time machine so we could transport you, Capt Monday
Morning Quaterback, back in time and let you fix everything.

The question is whether it was the right thing to do to have a war
that destroyed half the country and killed 3% of the population when
there may have been a peaceful solution.
It is clear the war didn't really solve anything. The freed slaves
became lower paid than the coal miners I referenced as an example.
Most ended back at the same basic jobs, certainly making a wage but
not a wage they could live on. !00 years of Jim Crow was not really
freedom anyway.
As for the war itself...
I understand that, to neocons like you, there was never a war you
didn't like but it is not always the answer.
You are still defending Afghanistan and it really looks like, after
decades of war there, we are going to give it back to the Taliban. It
will happen faster if the democrats take over than Trump would do it.

It's the graveyard of empires. Ultimately everybody who gets involved
there withdraws.

Cindy Hamilton

The whole debacle from GHWB's war on was stupid and we should have
never been involved in any of it. Without the 10 year war in Iraq from
1991 to 2001 there would not have been a 9-11.
It might have been worth it to kick Saddam out of Kuwait as long as
the whole world supported us but after that we should have put our
victory in our pocket and came home. I did say at the time, (pre Gulf
war) once we get in we will never get out and damn near 30 years
later, we are still there. Same with Afghanistan.

Just like Vietnam, pretty soon we are going to have to decide enough
is enough and get out. The sooner the better.

In article ,
says...

Just like Vietnam, pretty soon we are going to have to decide enough
is enough and get out. The sooner the better.



Everything the US has been involved in after WW2 has been just something
that is getting a bunch of men killed for nothing. I don't think there
has ever been a real objective (outside of maybe Desert Storm)
declaired. The US should either commit everything we have outside of
the nukes or not get involved at all.

It took only around 5 years for the US to end WW1 and WW2. We messed in
Vietnam 5 times that and gained nothing. We are starting to be at that
point in the big sandlot of the east.

Maybe the justification for the mess is the generals get to play with
their toys and see how effective they may be if a real war was ever
started.

On 8/11/19 11:07 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

Just like Vietnam, pretty soon we are going to have to decide enough
is enough and get out. The sooner the better.



Everything the US has been involved in after WW2 has been just something
that is getting a bunch of men killed for nothing. I don't think there
has ever been a real objective (outside of maybe Desert Storm)
declaired. The US should either commit everything we have outside of
the nukes or not get involved at all.

Korea?

It took only around 5 years for the US to end WW1 and WW2. We messed in
Vietnam 5 times that and gained nothing. We are starting to be at that
point in the big sandlot of the east.

Maybe the justification for the mess is the generals get to play with
their toys and see how effective they may be if a real war was ever
started.

On 08/11/2019 10:07 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
verything the US has been involved in after WW2 has been just something
that is getting a bunch of men killed for nothing. I don't think there
has ever been a real objective (outside of maybe Desert Storm)
declaired. The US should either commit everything we have outside of
the nukes or not get involved at all.

I'd say everything since 1812 and I'm not sure about that one either.

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 11:56:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Aug 2019 05:38:10 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 10:11:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 17:32:54 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 5:51:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:15:57 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/10/2019 11:06 AM, wrote:
Remember if it wasn't for that new england sea faring culture and the
desire for cheap cotton to feed their mills, we would not have had
slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should march through new
england tearing down all of those sailor memorials.

The first slaves predated the cotton industry. Many were used in tobacco
production. Because of the labor intensiveness of separating cotton seed
from the bolls it wasn't until Whitney, another Yankee, invented the
cotton gin that cotton farming became profitable and slave owning given
a boost.

The industrial revolution created many slaves; most of them were wage
slaves. Why go to the expense of owning a slave where you can hire them
by the day and discard them when you don't need them anymore?

This is why I say they could have ended slavery in a couple years in
the south without the war. They just needed the coal company guys to
explain to plantation owners how you can keep your cheap labor without
****ing off the abolitionists. Free the slaves, then hire them back
at a wage that barely covers their living expenses at the "plantation"
(AKA company) store. Most of them would stay, as they did. It would be
100 years until the government got around to looking at how we treated
coal miners or the "freed" slaves.

Too bad we don't have a time machine so we could transport you, Capt Monday
Morning Quaterback, back in time and let you fix everything.

The question is whether it was the right thing to do to have a war
that destroyed half the country and killed 3% of the population when
there may have been a peaceful solution.
It is clear the war didn't really solve anything. The freed slaves
became lower paid than the coal miners I referenced as an example.
Most ended back at the same basic jobs, certainly making a wage but
not a wage they could live on. !00 years of Jim Crow was not really
freedom anyway.
As for the war itself...
I understand that, to neocons like you, there was never a war you
didn't like but it is not always the answer.
You are still defending Afghanistan and it really looks like, after
decades of war there, we are going to give it back to the Taliban. It
will happen faster if the democrats take over than Trump would do it.

It's the graveyard of empires. Ultimately everybody who gets involved
there withdraws.

Cindy Hamilton

The whole debacle from GHWB's war on was stupid and we should have
never been involved in any of it.

Yes, we should have just accepted 3000 dead, taken it, turned our
tails, run away and renounced our status as a superpower, or even
a world power.




Without the 10 year war in Iraq from
1991 to 2001 there would not have been a 9-11.

So says you, but of course no one has any way of knowing. It could
have happened anyway. And it wasn't a ten year war, the first Gulf War
lasted just hours.



It might have been worth it to kick Saddam out of Kuwait as long as
the whole world supported us but after that we should have put our
victory in our pocket and came home.

And watch as Saddam committed genocide against the Kurds? As he
gave the US and the coalition the finger? And of course had we done
that and then something else went wrong, why then of course as the
resident Monday morning quarterback, you'd be telling us how letting
Saddam kill the Kurds and flip us off was all wrong.




I did say at the time, (pre Gulf
war) once we get in we will never get out and damn near 30 years
later, we are still there. Same with Afghanistan.

Just like Vietnam, pretty soon we are going to have to decide enough
is enough and get out. The sooner the better.

And then when it turns to crap, you'll be back complaining that was
a mistake too.

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 12:07:35 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

Just like Vietnam, pretty soon we are going to have to decide enough
is enough and get out. The sooner the better.



Everything the US has been involved in after WW2 has been just something
that is getting a bunch of men killed for nothing.

The 50 million people living in freedom in South Korea would disagree.
There have also been other operations that could have resulted in many
dead, but did not and were hugely successful, eg NATO keeping Russia
out of Europe. Kuwait was a great success. So was the Balkans.



I don't think there
has ever been a real objective (outside of maybe Desert Storm)
declaired. The US should either commit everything we have outside of
the nukes or not get involved at all.

If only it were that simple. Never has been.




It took only around 5 years for the US to end WW1 and WW2. We messed in
Vietnam 5 times that and gained nothing. We are starting to be at that
point in the big sandlot of the east.

Maybe the justification for the mess is the generals get to play with
their toys and see how effective they may be if a real war was ever
started.

The problem is we are no longer fighting nations. Though Trump,
who you support, has pretty much started a new war with Iran and
that is indeed a nation, so you should be happy. We'll see how
that goes.....