Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the
previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple
feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from
the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose
rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course,
it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so
and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure
until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house
again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 10:22:44 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the
previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple
feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from
the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose
rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course,
it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so
and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure
until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house
again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

Typically you just add on to the existing circuit by joining the wires
in typical receptacle or switch boxes. Or you can just add a new box
for a splice, use wire nuts, as long as it's accessible.

On 6/15/2019 11:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 10:22:44 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the
previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple
feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from
the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose
rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course,
it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so
and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure
until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house
again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

Typically you just add on to the existing circuit by joining the wires
in typical receptacle or switch boxes. Or you can just add a new box
for a splice, use wire nuts, as long as it's accessible.

Yeah, but it's butt ugly...

--

On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 1:33:00 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 6/15/2019 11:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 10:22:44 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the
previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple
feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from
the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose
rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course,
it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so
and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure
until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house
again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

Typically you just add on to the existing circuit by joining the wires
in typical receptacle or switch boxes. Or you can just add a new box
for a splice, use wire nuts, as long as it's accessible.

Yeah, but it's butt ugly...

--

What's ugly? If you can run another cable into an existing box for
a receptacle or switch to tap in,
it still looks like it used to. If you need to put in a new one,
usually you can do that in the basement or attic.

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 12:32:47 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 11:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 10:22:44 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the
previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple
feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from
the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose
rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course,
it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so
and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure
until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house
again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

Typically you just add on to the existing circuit by joining the wires
in typical receptacle or switch boxes. Or you can just add a new box
for a splice, use wire nuts, as long as it's accessible.

Yeah, but it's butt ugly...
What do you expect with "butt connectors"?

On 6/15/2019 12:51 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 12:32:47 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 11:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 10:22:44 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the
previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple
feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from
the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose
rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course,
it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so
and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure
until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house
again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

Typically you just add on to the existing circuit by joining the wires
in typical receptacle or switch boxes. Or you can just add a new box
for a splice, use wire nuts, as long as it's accessible.

Yeah, but it's butt ugly...
What do you expect with "butt connectors"?
Chuckles...

On 6/15/2019 12:45 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 1:33:00 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 6/15/2019 11:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 10:22:44 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the
previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple
feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from
the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose
rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course,
it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so
and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure
until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house
again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

Typically you just add on to the existing circuit by joining the wires
in typical receptacle or switch boxes. Or you can just add a new box
for a splice, use wire nuts, as long as it's accessible.

Yeah, but it's butt ugly...

--

What's ugly? If you can run another cable into an existing box for
a receptacle or switch to tap in,
it still looks like it used to. If you need to put in a new one,
usually you can do that in the basement or attic.

As noted, the new box will be in the closet wall (not covered up, no);
and yes, from outside it all looks the same...just that a mess of
wire-nut connections inside the box is, well, still a mess...

But, expedient and typical, granted...just thinking of something
slightly "more neater" would be nice and be able to label circuits for
future reference simply as well.

Can be done routinely as you describe of course and is in compliance by
Code granted...

--

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 12:32:47 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 11:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 10:22:44 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the
previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple
feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from
the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose
rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course,
it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so
and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure
until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house
again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

Typically you just add on to the existing circuit by joining the wires
in typical receptacle or switch boxes. Or you can just add a new box
for a splice, use wire nuts, as long as it's accessible.

Yeah, but it's butt ugly...

You can use the euro style terminal blocks. Just be sure to get the
U/L, ETL or TUV listed ones (CE doesn't count).
https://tinyurl.com/y34b4lm8
They can be a long strip of these.

For the grounds you can use a regular bus bar like you see in panels.
That can make a very neat installation. I did it when I replaced my
service panel to extend the wires that were too short. It avoided
that jumble of wire nuts you are talking about.

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:31:12 -0400, wrote:
SNIPP

You can use the euro style terminal blocks. Just be sure to get the
U/L, ETL or TUV listed ones (CE doesn't count).
https://tinyurl.com/y34b4lm8
They can be a long strip of these.

BUTT - can I use them with Aluminum wire?

Molex has ones listed for both copper and aluminum at:
https://www.molex.com/molex/products...Int roduction

For the grounds you can use a regular bus bar like you see in panels.
That can make a very neat installation. I did it when I replaced my
service panel to extend the wires that were too short. It avoided
that jumble of wire nuts you are talking about.
May have to get a few of those stripos to extend the neutrals fo
install arcfault breakers - - -

On 6/15/2019 1:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 12:32:47 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 11:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 10:22:44 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the
previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple
feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from
the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose
rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course,
it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so
and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure
until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house
again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

Typically you just add on to the existing circuit by joining the wires
in typical receptacle or switch boxes. Or you can just add a new box
for a splice, use wire nuts, as long as it's accessible.

Yeah, but it's butt ugly...

You can use the euro style terminal blocks. Just be sure to get the
U/L, ETL or TUV listed ones (CE doesn't count).
https://tinyurl.com/y34b4lm8
They can be a long strip of these.

For the grounds you can use a regular bus bar like you see in panels.
That can make a very neat installation. I did it when I replaced my
service panel to extend the wires that were too short. It avoided
that jumble of wire nuts you are talking about.

Yeah, that's the sort of thing...thought perhaps some who had done more
recent work of the sort than I have might have seen or know of a "for
purpose" panel.

I'll see what I can find at the local distributor's Monday...I thought I
still had enough of the cabinet terminations used at the power plants
but that stash seems to have been with the box of stuff that
"disappeared" while I wasn't in the office one spell while in the moving
process -- it included most of my small toolkit for setup of data acq
systems including a good Fluke meter.
--

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 15:34:25 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:31:12 -0400, wrote:
SNIPP

You can use the euro style terminal blocks. Just be sure to get the
U/L, ETL or TUV listed ones (CE doesn't count).
https://tinyurl.com/y34b4lm8
They can be a long strip of these.

BUTT - can I use them with Aluminum wire?

Molex has ones listed for both copper and aluminum at:
https://www.molex.com/molex/products...Int roduction

For the grounds you can use a regular bus bar like you see in panels.
That can make a very neat installation. I did it when I replaced my
service panel to extend the wires that were too short. It avoided
that jumble of wire nuts you are talking about.
May have to get a few of those stripos to extend the neutrals fo
install arcfault breakers - - -

You have to separate neutrals anyway down stream of the bus bar in the
panel. You are not allowed to bundle neutrals from different circuits
although I have seen it done. It does get a tag from me.
Those big kludge ceiling boxes are the worst offenders. That is also
where most AFCI problems occur.

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:35:53 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 1:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 12:32:47 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 11:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 10:22:44 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the
previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple
feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from
the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose
rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course,
it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so
and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure
until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house
again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

Typically you just add on to the existing circuit by joining the wires
in typical receptacle or switch boxes. Or you can just add a new box
for a splice, use wire nuts, as long as it's accessible.

Yeah, but it's butt ugly...

You can use the euro style terminal blocks. Just be sure to get the
U/L, ETL or TUV listed ones (CE doesn't count).
https://tinyurl.com/y34b4lm8
They can be a long strip of these.

For the grounds you can use a regular bus bar like you see in panels.
That can make a very neat installation. I did it when I replaced my
service panel to extend the wires that were too short. It avoided
that jumble of wire nuts you are talking about.

Yeah, that's the sort of thing...thought perhaps some who had done more
recent work of the sort than I have might have seen or know of a "for
purpose" panel.

I'll see what I can find at the local distributor's Monday...I thought I
still had enough of the cabinet terminations used at the power plants
but that stash seems to have been with the box of stuff that
"disappeared" while I wasn't in the office one spell while in the moving
process -- it included most of my small toolkit for setup of data acq
systems including a good Fluke meter.

You usually end up with a bigger box when you use those terminal
strips, just for working space but they are a lot neater.

On 6/15/2019 2:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:31:12 -0400, wrote:
SNIPP

You can use the euro style terminal blocks. Just be sure to get the
U/L, ETL or TUV listed ones (CE doesn't count).
https://tinyurl.com/y34b4lm8
They can be a long strip of these.

BUTT - can I use them with Aluminum wire?

Molex has ones listed for both copper and aluminum at:
https://www.molex.com/molex/products...Int roduction

For the grounds you can use a regular bus bar like you see in panels.
That can make a very neat installation. I did it when I replaced my
service panel to extend the wires that were too short. It avoided
that jumble of wire nuts you are talking about.
May have to get a few of those stripos to extend the neutrals fo
install arcfault breakers - - -

Those do have to have rail mounting system which is neat but overkill
for this even by my standards...

I'd pair each cable 2/3 wire and use common ground bus as gfretwell noted.

Breakers are in main panel and aren't changing -- have enough circuits
and it's old work retrofit so I'm not going to change anything but make
the wires longer to reach their new homes...

--

On 6/15/2019 2:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:35:53 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 1:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 12:32:47 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 11:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 10:22:44 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the
previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple
feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from
the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose
rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course,
it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so
and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure
until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house
again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

Typically you just add on to the existing circuit by joining the wires
in typical receptacle or switch boxes. Or you can just add a new box
for a splice, use wire nuts, as long as it's accessible.

Yeah, but it's butt ugly...

You can use the euro style terminal blocks. Just be sure to get the
U/L, ETL or TUV listed ones (CE doesn't count).
https://tinyurl.com/y34b4lm8
They can be a long strip of these.

For the grounds you can use a regular bus bar like you see in panels.
That can make a very neat installation. I did it when I replaced my
service panel to extend the wires that were too short. It avoided
that jumble of wire nuts you are talking about.

Yeah, that's the sort of thing...thought perhaps some who had done more
recent work of the sort than I have might have seen or know of a "for
purpose" panel.

I'll see what I can find at the local distributor's Monday...I thought I
still had enough of the cabinet terminations used at the power plants
but that stash seems to have been with the box of stuff that
"disappeared" while I wasn't in the office one spell while in the moving
process -- it included most of my small toolkit for setup of data acq
systems including a good Fluke meter.

You usually end up with a bigger box when you use those terminal
strips, just for working space but they are a lot neater.

Much. Used mostly Weidmuller for cabinets although some
Phoenix...they're way too pricey for ordinary house wiring work but I
thought I had a stash until I went to look...there was probably $1K of
materials in 1999 $$ in the box that went walkabout not counting the
tools...

--

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 15 Jun 2019 09:22:32 -0500, dpb
wrote:


Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose

Not afaik. Just remember when you go to the new house of your richest
neighbor: He has lot s of wires connected with wirenuts in his junction
boxes too. You just don't see them, and you and he won't see yours
either.


rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is)

You're saying you have 3 places you can turn the entry light on or off,
and you want to reduce that to 2 places. How about just don't use the
third place. Maybe some day you'll change your mind or the next owner
will want to use it and be glad it's there.

and one 4-way for dining room.

You want 3 places to turn the dining room lights on and off. Do you
have 3 entrances to the dining room? Oh, you want one by the entry door,
so you can turn many lights on from one location. That's fine, but
makes it even stranger to me that you want to get rid of one location
for the dining room lights.

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 15:43:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 15:34:25 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:31:12 -0400, wrote:
SNIPP

You can use the euro style terminal blocks. Just be sure to get the
U/L, ETL or TUV listed ones (CE doesn't count).
https://tinyurl.com/y34b4lm8
They can be a long strip of these.

BUTT - can I use them with Aluminum wire?

Molex has ones listed for both copper and aluminum at:
https://www.molex.com/molex/products...Int roduction

For the grounds you can use a regular bus bar like you see in panels.
That can make a very neat installation. I did it when I replaced my
service panel to extend the wires that were too short. It avoided
that jumble of wire nuts you are talking about.
May have to get a few of those stripos to extend the neutrals fo
install arcfault breakers - - -

You have to separate neutrals anyway down stream of the bus bar in the
panel. You are not allowed to bundle neutrals from different circuits
although I have seen it done. It does get a tag from me.
Those big kludge ceiling boxes are the worst offenders. That is also
where most AFCI problems occur.
For sure. My problem is the sparky who replaced my panel made too
neat a job of it - cutting the neutrals to fit beautifully to the
neutral buss without a "web" of unoused wire. A thing of beauty,
really - but not nice for retro-fitting protection devices - - - -

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 19:03:22 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 15 Jun 2019 09:22:32 -0500, dpb
wrote:


Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose

Not afaik. Just remember when you go to the new house of your richest
neighbor: He has lot s of wires connected with wirenuts in his junction
boxes too. You just don't see them, and you and he won't see yours
either.


rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is)

You're saying you have 3 places you can turn the entry light on or off,
and you want to reduce that to 2 places. How about just don't use the
third place. Maybe some day you'll change your mind or the next owner
will want to use it and be glad it's there.

and one 4-way for dining room.

You want 3 places to turn the dining room lights on and off. Do you
have 3 entrances to the dining room? Oh, you want one by the entry door,
so you can turn many lights on from one location. That's fine, but
makes it even stranger to me that you want to get rid of one location
for the dining room lights.
Situations like that are what low voltage control systems were made
for - Remote control.

On 6/15/2019 6:03 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 15 Jun 2019 09:22:32 -0500, dpb
wrote:


Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose

Not afaik. Just remember when you go to the new house of your richest
neighbor: He has lot s of wires connected with wirenuts in his junction
boxes too. You just don't see them, and you and he won't see yours
either.

Doesn't mean I won't know they're there, though, and for a little extra
effort, they don't have to be. I don't care what's in the neighbor's--I
didn't wire it and it isn't mine.

....

You're saying you have 3 places you can turn the entry light on or off,
and you want to reduce that to 2 places. How about just don't use the
third place. Maybe some day you'll change your mind or the next owner
will want to use it and be glad it's there.
....

Backwards...there's one place for the entry; idea is to turn it into at
least two if can manage it without having to run another feed...think
can but didn't sketch out what Dad actually ran while moving stuff to
get out of way for the demolition--will have to wait until we can open
up that wall again and dig stuff back out to figure that out--may be
missing a three-wire run that would need back to the feed in which case
it's likely not going to happen as I think how the run was pulled
requires a major hack to get back into that I'm just not wanting to deal
with if so.

And, actually, there are four places one can enter/exit the dining room
but only three have switches. A lower priority would be to rectify
that, but the missing location is on a different wall and not scheduled
for demolition so most likely will end up just staying that way. Not
sure why Dad didn't do it as well when redid the house back in late 70s
but it is only a couple steps from the nearest other so probably just
thought "close enough".

--

On 6/15/2019 7:22 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 19:03:22 -0400, micky
wrote:
....

You want 3 places to turn the dining room lights on and off. Do you
have 3 entrances to the dining room? Oh, you want one by the entry door,
so you can turn many lights on from one location. That's fine, but
makes it even stranger to me that you want to get rid of one location
for the dining room lights.
Situations like that are what low voltage control systems were made
for - Remote control.

Not so much in 1914...

--

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 15 Jun 2019 09:22:32 -0500, dpb
wrote:
....

You're saying you have 3 places you can turn the entry light on or off,
and you want to reduce that to 2 places. How about just don't use the
third place. Maybe some day you'll change your mind or the next owner
will want to use it and be glad it's there.

No...you misread. There's only one place to turn the entry light
on/off...at the exterior door. You can turn the DR light on from there
and at the same time then turn the entry off if going on in, but if you
walk on in first, then you must bactrack. The ideal would be to add the
second location but that'll have to have a 3-wire run and not sure it's
there (see other note for more on that).

and one 4-way for dining room.

You want 3 places to turn the dining room lights on and off. Do you
have 3 entrances to the dining room? Oh, you want one by the entry door,
so you can turn many lights on from one location. That's fine, but
makes it even stranger to me that you want to get rid of one location
for the dining room lights.

Already have three...if anything I'd add a fourth because there are
actually four entrances to the DR and the one to the kitchen is missing
a switch.

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 15:03:22 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 2:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:35:53 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 1:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 12:32:47 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 11:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 10:22:44 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the
previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple
feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from
the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose
rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't
really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars
in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for
yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure
out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if
not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course,
it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so
and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure
until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house
again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

Typically you just add on to the existing circuit by joining the wires
in typical receptacle or switch boxes. Or you can just add a new box
for a splice, use wire nuts, as long as it's accessible.

Yeah, but it's butt ugly...

You can use the euro style terminal blocks. Just be sure to get the
U/L, ETL or TUV listed ones (CE doesn't count).
https://tinyurl.com/y34b4lm8
They can be a long strip of these.

For the grounds you can use a regular bus bar like you see in panels.
That can make a very neat installation. I did it when I replaced my
service panel to extend the wires that were too short. It avoided
that jumble of wire nuts you are talking about.

Yeah, that's the sort of thing...thought perhaps some who had done more
recent work of the sort than I have might have seen or know of a "for
purpose" panel.

I'll see what I can find at the local distributor's Monday...I thought I
still had enough of the cabinet terminations used at the power plants
but that stash seems to have been with the box of stuff that
"disappeared" while I wasn't in the office one spell while in the moving
process -- it included most of my small toolkit for setup of data acq
systems including a good Fluke meter.

You usually end up with a bigger box when you use those terminal
strips, just for working space but they are a lot neater.

Much. Used mostly Weidmuller for cabinets although some
Phoenix...they're way too pricey for ordinary house wiring work but I
thought I had a stash until I went to look...there was probably $1K of
materials in 1999 $$ in the box that went walkabout not counting the
tools...

Those gray Carlon boxes are good for this. They can be 6x6 or 8x8 if
you really need some room. You do have to drill your own holes but a
hole saw works fine. It really depends on how many circuits we are
talking about.

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:25:25 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 7:22 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 19:03:22 -0400, micky
wrote:
...

You want 3 places to turn the dining room lights on and off. Do you
have 3 entrances to the dining room? Oh, you want one by the entry door,
so you can turn many lights on from one location. That's fine, but
makes it even stranger to me that you want to get rid of one location
for the dining room lights.
Situations like that are what low voltage control systems were made
for - Remote control.

Not so much in 1914...
There were actually remote actuated switches back then too - and they
were "wireless" - but not "cordless" - a series of strings and pullies
with a "rocker" that actuated the push-buttons.

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:18:44 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 15:43:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 15:34:25 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:31:12 -0400, wrote:
SNIPP

You can use the euro style terminal blocks. Just be sure to get the
U/L, ETL or TUV listed ones (CE doesn't count).
https://tinyurl.com/y34b4lm8
They can be a long strip of these.

BUTT - can I use them with Aluminum wire?

Molex has ones listed for both copper and aluminum at:
https://www.molex.com/molex/products...Int roduction

For the grounds you can use a regular bus bar like you see in panels.
That can make a very neat installation. I did it when I replaced my
service panel to extend the wires that were too short. It avoided
that jumble of wire nuts you are talking about.
May have to get a few of those stripos to extend the neutrals fo
install arcfault breakers - - -

You have to separate neutrals anyway down stream of the bus bar in the
panel. You are not allowed to bundle neutrals from different circuits
although I have seen it done. It does get a tag from me.
Those big kludge ceiling boxes are the worst offenders. That is also
where most AFCI problems occur.
For sure. My problem is the sparky who replaced my panel made too
neat a job of it - cutting the neutrals to fit beautifully to the
neutral buss without a "web" of unoused wire. A thing of beauty,
really - but not nice for retro-fitting protection devices - - - -

I know what you mean, those OCD perfect looking panels are great as
long as you never want to change anything.

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 23:45:35 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:25:25 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 7:22 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 19:03:22 -0400, micky
wrote:
...

You want 3 places to turn the dining room lights on and off. Do you
have 3 entrances to the dining room? Oh, you want one by the entry door,
so you can turn many lights on from one location. That's fine, but
makes it even stranger to me that you want to get rid of one location
for the dining room lights.
Situations like that are what low voltage control systems were made
for - Remote control.

Not so much in 1914...
There were actually remote actuated switches back then too - and they
were "wireless" - but not "cordless" - a series of strings and pullies
with a "rocker" that actuated the push-buttons.

There are also relay based low voltage systems that have been around
for well over a half a century.

IBM used these RR7 system relays when they built the Gaithersburg
complex in the early 60s.
The relay sticks in a 1/2" KO with the switch part in the box and the
low voltage coil outside. They are latching relays so one wire turns
it on and one turns it off with no limit to the number of low voltage
switching locations.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3900/wlejmk/products/1128/images/16368/ge-relay-solenoid-rr7__46679.1481834496.310.310.jpg?c=2

On 6/15/2019 11:19 PM, wrote:
....

There are also relay based low voltage systems that have been around
for well over a half a century.

IBM used these RR7 system relays when they built the Gaithersburg
complex in the early 60s.
The relay sticks in a 1/2" KO with the switch part in the box and the
low voltage coil outside. They are latching relays so one wire turns
it on and one turns it off with no limit to the number of low voltage
switching locations.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3900/wlejmk/products/1128/images/16368/ge-relay-solenoid-rr7__46679.1481834496.310.310.jpg?c=2


Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to its
new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching
location would potentially be useful. I might see if there's another
route to get that functionality as well altho actually on reflection
there isn't really a great location to mount the other side switch--as
actually the way I described to Micky of being four entrances with only
one not switched is really not quite true -- two aren't switched because
the wide opening into the entry area doesn't have any switches on its
wall because there is essentially no wall--they opened up that wall
almost entirely so the switches at the exterior wall serve the purpose.
We're making that distance longer by expanding the entry way, albeit not
but by another couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to
think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more demolition
than think its worth in the end...

--

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 07:45:21 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/15/2019 11:19 PM, wrote:
...

There are also relay based low voltage systems that have been around
for well over a half a century.

IBM used these RR7 system relays when they built the Gaithersburg
complex in the early 60s.
The relay sticks in a 1/2" KO with the switch part in the box and the
low voltage coil outside. They are latching relays so one wire turns
it on and one turns it off with no limit to the number of low voltage
switching locations.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3900/wlejmk/products/1128/images/16368/ge-relay-solenoid-rr7__46679.1481834496.310.310.jpg?c=2


Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to its
new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching
location would potentially be useful. I might see if there's another
route to get that functionality as well altho actually on reflection
there isn't really a great location to mount the other side switch--as
actually the way I described to Micky of being four entrances with only
one not switched is really not quite true -- two aren't switched because
the wide opening into the entry area doesn't have any switches on its
wall because there is essentially no wall--they opened up that wall
almost entirely so the switches at the exterior wall serve the purpose.
We're making that distance longer by expanding the entry way, albeit not
but by another couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to
think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more demolition
than think its worth in the end...

As long as you understand 3 way and 4 way switching, adding new switch
locations is not that hard if you have a way to add the wire in the
wall. I am looking at one of those myself but the trick will be
getting 4 more wires down the wall.

"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 6/15/2019 11:19 PM, wrote:
...

There are also relay based low voltage systems that have been around
for well over a half a century.

IBM used these RR7 system relays when they built the Gaithersburg
complex in the early 60s.
The relay sticks in a 1/2" KO with the switch part in the box and the
low voltage coil outside. They are latching relays so one wire turns
it on and one turns it off with no limit to the number of low voltage
switching locations.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3900/wlejmk/products/1128/images/16368/ge-relay-solenoid-rr7__46679.1481834496.310.310.jpg?c=2


Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to its
new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching location
would potentially be useful. I might see if there's another route to get
that functionality as well altho actually on reflection there isn't really
a great location to mount the other side switch--as actually the way I
described to Micky of being four entrances with only one not switched is
really not quite true -- two aren't switched because the wide opening into
the entry area doesn't have any switches on its wall because there is
essentially no wall--they opened up that wall almost entirely so the
switches at the exterior wall serve the purpose. We're making that
distance longer by expanding the entry way, albeit not but by another
couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to think
about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more demolition than
think its worth in the end...

Or you could use the Philips Hue system there. The switches arent wired
and they dont have any batterys either, they work by kinetic energy.

Not cheap but can be cheaper than rewiring.

On 6/16/2019 10:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 07:45:21 -0500, dpb wrote:
....

Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to its
new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching
location would potentially be useful. I might see if there's another
route to get that functionality as well altho actually on reflection
there isn't really a great location to mount the other side switch--as
actually the way I described to Micky of being four entrances with only
one not switched is really not quite true -- two aren't switched because
the wide opening into the entry area doesn't have any switches on its
wall because there is essentially no wall--they opened up that wall
almost entirely so the switches at the exterior wall serve the purpose.
We're making that distance longer by expanding the entry way, albeit not
but by another couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to
think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more demolition
than think its worth in the end...

As long as you understand 3 way and 4 way switching, adding new switch
locations is not that hard if you have a way to add the wire in the
wall. I am looking at one of those myself but the trick will be
getting 4 more wires down the wall.

I understand the wiring, yes...already had added another one for the
second garage when we came back -- Dad had only used the one for their
car but we're using both so I ran the extra feed to the other one a few
years ago.

The wall itself is hollow; it's whether I can get to the top plate to
get through it where would need to be is the question...will only be
able to determine that when we finish the framing of the new addition to
get it closed in enough we can open up that exterior wall to be able to
see what will run into.

Similar issue with the idea of replacing the on-off of the entry way
with 3-way in the same location excepting it has the additional question
of whether there is (and I doubt there is) the needed 3-wires to the
present location/fixture from the main panel--it's in the basement and
it appears the feed went up the wall to the 2nd floor ceiling joists and
then out and in the attic space of the entry. That was doable when did
the major remodel 'cuz had all the exterior walls open to insulate so
had access to everything then...and, I'm just not interested enough to
make a major re-opening of all that just to pull that one wire.

And, of course, the interior wall is also still lath/plaster.

--

On 6/16/2019 12:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 6/15/2019 11:19 PM, wrote:
...

There are also relay based low voltage systems that have been around
for well over a half a century.

IBM used these RR7 system relays when they built the Gaithersburg
complex in the early 60s.
The relay sticks in a 1/2" KO with the switch part in the box and the
low voltage coil outside. They are latching relays so one wire turns
it on and one turns it off with no limit to the number of low voltage
switching locations.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3900/wlejmk/products/1128/images/16368/ge-relay-solenoid-rr7__46679.1481834496.310.310.jpg?c=2



Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to
its new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching
location would potentially be useful.Â* I might see if there's another
route to get that functionality as well altho actually on reflection
there isn't really a great location to mount the other side switch--as
actually the way I described to Micky of being four entrances with
only one not switched is really not quite true -- two aren't switched
because the wide opening into the entry area doesn't have any switches
on its wall because there is essentially no wall--they opened up that
wall almost entirely so the switches at the exterior wall serve the
purpose. We're making that distance longer by expanding the entry way,
albeit not but by another couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to
think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more
demolition than think its worth in the end...

Or you could use the Philips Hue system there. The switches arent wired
and they dont have any batterys either, they work by kinetic energy.

Not cheap but can be cheaper than rewiring.

Not seen that before..._WAY_ over the top to save a couple of steps once
in a while!!

Can't imagine living in such a way one would have to have a router to
turn the lights on/off or an app to set things up. Ain't agonna' happen...

--

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 03:36:32 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Or you could use the Philips Hue system there.

You can shove your Philips Hue up your arse, senile idiot!

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 6/16/2019 12:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"dpb" wrote in message
...
On 6/15/2019 11:19 PM, wrote:
...

There are also relay based low voltage systems that have been around
for well over a half a century.

IBM used these RR7 system relays when they built the Gaithersburg
complex in the early 60s.
The relay sticks in a 1/2" KO with the switch part in the box and the
low voltage coil outside. They are latching relays so one wire turns
it on and one turns it off with no limit to the number of low voltage
switching locations.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3900/wlejmk/products/1128/images/16368/ge-relay-solenoid-rr7__46679.1481834496.310.310.jpg?c=2


Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to its
new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching
location would potentially be useful. I might see if there's another
route to get that functionality as well altho actually on reflection
there isn't really a great location to mount the other side switch--as
actually the way I described to Micky of being four entrances with only
one not switched is really not quite true -- two aren't switched because
the wide opening into the entry area doesn't have any switches on its
wall because there is essentially no wall--they opened up that wall
almost entirely so the switches at the exterior wall serve the purpose.
We're making that distance longer by expanding the entry way, albeit not
but by another couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to
think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more demolition
than think its worth in the end...

Or you could use the Philips Hue system there. The switches arent wired
and they dont have any batterys either, they work by kinetic energy.

Not cheap but can be cheaper than rewiring.

Not seen that before..._WAY_ over the top to save a couple of steps once
in a while!!

Save a lot more than that, any switching at all in fact.

Can't imagine living in such a way one would have to have a router to turn
the lights on/off or an app to set things up. Ain't agonna' happen...

Has happened for me. I dont fart around with switches at all anymore,
everything is done with movement sensors, completely automatic.

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 12:57:35 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/16/2019 10:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 07:45:21 -0500, dpb wrote:
...

Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to its
new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching
location would potentially be useful. I might see if there's another
route to get that functionality as well altho actually on reflection
there isn't really a great location to mount the other side switch--as
actually the way I described to Micky of being four entrances with only
one not switched is really not quite true -- two aren't switched because
the wide opening into the entry area doesn't have any switches on its
wall because there is essentially no wall--they opened up that wall
almost entirely so the switches at the exterior wall serve the purpose.
We're making that distance longer by expanding the entry way, albeit not
but by another couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to
think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more demolition
than think its worth in the end...

As long as you understand 3 way and 4 way switching, adding new switch
locations is not that hard if you have a way to add the wire in the
wall. I am looking at one of those myself but the trick will be
getting 4 more wires down the wall.

I understand the wiring, yes...already had added another one for the
second garage when we came back -- Dad had only used the one for their
car but we're using both so I ran the extra feed to the other one a few
years ago.

The wall itself is hollow; it's whether I can get to the top plate to
get through it where would need to be is the question...will only be
able to determine that when we finish the framing of the new addition to
get it closed in enough we can open up that exterior wall to be able to
see what will run into.

Similar issue with the idea of replacing the on-off of the entry way
with 3-way in the same location excepting it has the additional question
of whether there is (and I doubt there is) the needed 3-wires to the
present location/fixture from the main panel--it's in the basement and
it appears the feed went up the wall to the 2nd floor ceiling joists and
then out and in the attic space of the entry. That was doable when did
the major remodel 'cuz had all the exterior walls open to insulate so
had access to everything then...and, I'm just not interested enough to
make a major re-opening of all that just to pull that one wire.

And, of course, the interior wall is also still lath/plaster.

I could show you how to do it with 2 wires but it would be wrong ;-)

(The scheme involves switching the neutral)

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 13:13:32 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/16/2019 12:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 6/15/2019 11:19 PM, wrote:
...

There are also relay based low voltage systems that have been around
for well over a half a century.

IBM used these RR7 system relays when they built the Gaithersburg
complex in the early 60s.
The relay sticks in a 1/2" KO with the switch part in the box and the
low voltage coil outside. They are latching relays so one wire turns
it on and one turns it off with no limit to the number of low voltage
switching locations.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3900/wlejmk/products/1128/images/16368/ge-relay-solenoid-rr7__46679.1481834496.310.310.jpg?c=2



Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to
its new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching
location would potentially be useful.Â* I might see if there's another
route to get that functionality as well altho actually on reflection
there isn't really a great location to mount the other side switch--as
actually the way I described to Micky of being four entrances with
only one not switched is really not quite true -- two aren't switched
because the wide opening into the entry area doesn't have any switches
on its wall because there is essentially no wall--they opened up that
wall almost entirely so the switches at the exterior wall serve the
purpose. We're making that distance longer by expanding the entry way,
albeit not but by another couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to
think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more
demolition than think its worth in the end...

Or you could use the Philips Hue system there. The switches arent wired
and they dont have any batterys either, they work by kinetic energy.

Not cheap but can be cheaper than rewiring.

Not seen that before..._WAY_ over the top to save a couple of steps once
in a while!!

Can't imagine living in such a way one would have to have a router to
turn the lights on/off or an app to set things up. Ain't agonna' happen...

Same here, keep it simple.

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 04:45:31 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Has happened for me. I don¢t fart around with switches at all anymore,
everything is done with movement sensors, completely automatic.

Yeah, we know, you ARE such a mindless senile consumer, you idiotic M$,
Google, Apple and Amazon admirer! tsk

--
addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent:
"You on the other hand are a heavyweight bull****ter who demonstrates
your particular prowess at it every day."
MID:

On 6/16/2019 2:17 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 12:57:35 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/16/2019 10:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 07:45:21 -0500, dpb wrote:
...

Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to its
new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching
location would potentially be useful. I might see if there's another
route to get that functionality as well altho actually on reflection
there isn't really a great location to mount the other side switch--as
actually the way I described to Micky of being four entrances with only
one not switched is really not quite true -- two aren't switched because
the wide opening into the entry area doesn't have any switches on its
wall because there is essentially no wall--they opened up that wall
almost entirely so the switches at the exterior wall serve the purpose.
We're making that distance longer by expanding the entry way, albeit not
but by another couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to
think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more demolition
than think its worth in the end...

As long as you understand 3 way and 4 way switching, adding new switch
locations is not that hard if you have a way to add the wire in the
wall. I am looking at one of those myself but the trick will be
getting 4 more wires down the wall.

I understand the wiring, yes...already had added another one for the
second garage when we came back -- Dad had only used the one for their
car but we're using both so I ran the extra feed to the other one a few
years ago.

The wall itself is hollow; it's whether I can get to the top plate to
get through it where would need to be is the question...will only be
able to determine that when we finish the framing of the new addition to
get it closed in enough we can open up that exterior wall to be able to
see what will run into.

Similar issue with the idea of replacing the on-off of the entry way
with 3-way in the same location excepting it has the additional question
of whether there is (and I doubt there is) the needed 3-wires to the
present location/fixture from the main panel--it's in the basement and
it appears the feed went up the wall to the 2nd floor ceiling joists and
then out and in the attic space of the entry. That was doable when did
the major remodel 'cuz had all the exterior walls open to insulate so
had access to everything then...and, I'm just not interested enough to
make a major re-opening of all that just to pull that one wire.

And, of course, the interior wall is also still lath/plaster.

I could show you how to do it with 2 wires but it would be wrong ;-)

(The scheme involves switching the neutral)

Well, I know of that way too, but while I'll do the work the County has
now requirement for inspection (just discovered that last week actually,
it's pretty recent and I wasn't aware for anything except septic was
need) so we did pull a permit so that's out...of course, one could
always go back later...

--

On 6/16/2019 1:45 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 6/16/2019 12:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"dpb" wrote in message
...
On 6/15/2019 11:19 PM, wrote:
...

There are also relay based low voltage systems that have been around
for well over a half a century.

IBM used these RR7 system relays when they built the Gaithersburg
complex in the early 60s.
The relay sticks in a 1/2" KO with the switch part in the box and the
low voltage coil outside. They are latching relays so one wire turns
it on and one turns it off with no limit to the number of low voltage
switching locations.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3900/wlejmk/products/1128/images/16368/ge-relay-solenoid-rr7__46679.1481834496.310.310.jpg?c=2



Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to
its new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching
location would potentially be useful.Â* I might see if there's
another route to get that functionality as well altho actually on
reflection there isn't really a great location to mount the other
side switch--as actually the way I described to Micky of being four
entrances with only one not switched is really not quite true -- two
aren't switched because the wide opening into the entry area doesn't
have any switches on its wall because there is essentially no
wall--they opened up that wall almost entirely so the switches at
the exterior wall serve the purpose. We're making that distance
longer by expanding the entry way, albeit not but by another couple
feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to
think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more
demolition than think its worth in the end...

Or you could use the Philips Hue system there. The switches arent wired
and they dont have any batterys either, they work by kinetic energy.

Not cheap but can be cheaper than rewiring.

Not seen that before..._WAY_ over the top to save a couple of steps
once in a while!!

Save a lot more than that, any switching at all in fact.

Can't imagine living in such a way one would have to have a router to
turn the lights on/off or an app to set things up.Â* Ain't agonna'
happen...

Has happened for me. I dont fart around with switches at all anymore,
everything is done with movement sensors, completely automatic.

To each his own....my phone couldn't run the app, even.

I tend to hate automated stuff that does its thing independent of me and
cars that talk back, etc., etc., etc., ...

--

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 13:13:32 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/16/2019 12:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"dpb" wrote in message
...
On 6/15/2019 11:19 PM, wrote:
...

There are also relay based low voltage systems that have been around
for well over a half a century.

IBM used these RR7 system relays when they built the Gaithersburg
complex in the early 60s.
The relay sticks in a 1/2" KO with the switch part in the box and the
low voltage coil outside. They are latching relays so one wire turns
it on and one turns it off with no limit to the number of low voltage
switching locations.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3900/wlejmk/products/1128/images/16368/ge-relay-solenoid-rr7__46679.1481834496.310.310.jpg?c=2



Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to
its new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching
location would potentially be useful. I might see if there's another
route to get that functionality as well altho actually on reflection
there isn't really a great location to mount the other side switch--as
actually the way I described to Micky of being four entrances with
only one not switched is really not quite true -- two aren't switched
because the wide opening into the entry area doesn't have any switches
on its wall because there is essentially no wall--they opened up that
wall almost entirely so the switches at the exterior wall serve the
purpose. We're making that distance longer by expanding the entry way,
albeit not but by another couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to
think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more
demolition than think its worth in the end...

Or you could use the Philips Hue system there. The switches arent wired
and they dont have any batterys either, they work by kinetic energy.

Not cheap but can be cheaper than rewiring.

Not seen that before..._WAY_ over the top to save a couple of steps once
in a while!!

Can't imagine living in such a way one would have to have a router to
turn the lights on/off or an app to set things up. Ain't agonna'
happen...

Same here, keep it simple.

Much simpler not having to fart around with any wired switches at all.

On 6/16/2019 3:45 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 13:13:32 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/16/2019 12:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"dpb" wrote in message
...
On 6/15/2019 11:19 PM, wrote:
...

There are also relay based low voltage systems that have been around
for well over a half a century.

IBM used these RR7 system relays when they built the Gaithersburg
complex in the early 60s.
The relay sticks in a 1/2" KO with the switch part in the box and the
low voltage coil outside. They are latching relays so one wire turns
it on and one turns it off with no limit to the number of low voltage
switching locations.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3900/wlejmk/products/1128/images/16368/ge-relay-solenoid-rr7__46679.1481834496.310.310.jpg?c=2




Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to
its new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching
location would potentially be useful.Â* I might see if there's another
route to get that functionality as well altho actually on reflection
there isn't really a great location to mount the other side switch--as
actually the way I described to Micky of being four entrances with
only one not switched is really not quite true -- two aren't switched
because the wide opening into the entry area doesn't have any switches
on its wall because there is essentially no wall--they opened up that
wall almost entirely so the switches at the exterior wall serve the
purpose. We're making that distance longer by expanding the entry way,
albeit not but by another couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to
think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more
demolition than think its worth in the end...

Or you could use the Philips Hue system there. The switches arent wired
and they dont have any batterys either, they work by kinetic energy.

Not cheap but can be cheaper than rewiring.

Not seen that before..._WAY_ over the top to save a couple of steps once
in a while!!

Can't imagine living in such a way one would have to have a router to
turn the lights on/off or an app to set things up.Â* Ain't agonna'
happen...

Same here, keep it simple.

Much simpler not having to fart around with any wired switches at all.

No, just have to fart around w/ phone apps and firmware updates
forever...and hope the manufacturer doesn't quit supporting it 20 year
down the road.

--

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 06:45:00 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Can't imagine living in such a way one would have to have a router to
turn the lights on/off or an app to set things up. Ain't agonna'
happen...

Same here, keep it simple.

Much simpler not having to fart around with any wired switches at all.

Pathological idiot! LOL

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 6/16/2019 1:45 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"dpb" wrote in message
...
On 6/16/2019 12:36 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"dpb" wrote in message
...
On 6/15/2019 11:19 PM, wrote:
...

There are also relay based low voltage systems that have been around
for well over a half a century.

IBM used these RR7 system relays when they built the Gaithersburg
complex in the early 60s.
The relay sticks in a 1/2" KO with the switch part in the box and the
low voltage coil outside. They are latching relays so one wire turns
it on and one turns it off with no limit to the number of low voltage
switching locations.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3900/wlejmk/products/1128/images/16368/ge-relay-solenoid-rr7__46679.1481834496.310.310.jpg?c=2


Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to
its new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching
location would potentially be useful. I might see if there's another
route to get that functionality as well altho actually on reflection
there isn't really a great location to mount the other side switch--as
actually the way I described to Micky of being four entrances with
only one not switched is really not quite true -- two aren't switched
because the wide opening into the entry area doesn't have any switches
on its wall because there is essentially no wall--they opened up that
wall almost entirely so the switches at the exterior wall serve the
purpose. We're making that distance longer by expanding the entry way,
albeit not but by another couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to
think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more
demolition than think its worth in the end...

Or you could use the Philips Hue system there. The switches arent wired
and they dont have any batterys either, they work by kinetic energy.

Not cheap but can be cheaper than rewiring.

Not seen that before..._WAY_ over the top to save a couple of steps once
in a while!!

Save a lot more than that, any switching at all in fact.

Can't imagine living in such a way one would have to have a router to
turn the lights on/off or an app to set things up. Ain't agonna'
happen...

Has happened for me. I dont fart around with switches at all anymore,
everything is done with movement sensors, completely automatic.

To each his own....my phone couldn't run the app, even.

Then you get to fart around wiring light switches.

I tend to hate automated stuff that does its thing independent of me and
cars that talk back, etc., etc., etc., ...

More fool you with modern cars that require no work at all anymore.