On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 03:50:57 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Shadow" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 11:50:03 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Shadow" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 14:35:48 -0500, George
wrote:

Socialist
Ocasio-Cortez
makes Al Gore proud!

That's good to know.
Another reason to vote for her.

I don't trust that Pelosi woman. She's a democrat, but acts
like a repuglican. She's no better than the Clinton woman, IMHO.

Well, the US has a good candidate.

Nope, a hopeless one.

Why ?

Usual mindless socialist crap, put it all
on the card with no way to pay for it all.

She can't be worse than Trump. Nobody can.

That's a completely stupid way to decide who should be prez.

Now work to make it happen

Not possible, you watch.

!!!!! I'm sick of Trump making the US a joke.

What you wogs are sick of is irrelevant.

We "wogs" are over 95% of the "people made in the likeness
of your god". It's in the fairy tale, so it must be true.

China is soon to become the World's biggest economy,

Irrelevant that they **** like rabbits.

Birth rates US vs China please ?

and the EU the most important political power.

Completely off wit the ****ing fairys, as always.

I don't believe in that book.

Hence the pathetic attempts to weaken it by "brexits".

The majority who bothered to vote decided they wanted out.

You clowns can't even work out how to
run you own pathetic excuse for a country.

YOU don't know how to run it. It's just another US colony now.

If it is, you clowns were the ones who allowed that to happen.

10% of us are illiterate. And voting is mandatory. Add all TVs
saying Bolsonaro is the only candidate, hundreds of millions of
Facebook WhatsApp posts saying the social democrats are going to make
homosexuality mandatory, Google censoring the search pages and that's
what happens. They "elect" a dictatorship.

You used the same scheme the Russians did to elect Trump.

The russians had **** all to do with why Trump got elected.

Hundreds of millions of #FAKE_POSTS elected Bolsonaro.

Bull****.

Oracle even gave a speech on how they did it.

How long is it going to take you to kill your psychotic
proxy and install a "democratic" dictatorship ? You
are not as efficient as you were 55 years ago.

I'm not a yank, stupid.

And I'm not stupid, yank.
[]'s

But I suppose decadence has something to do
with that. 14% of Amerikans can't read and write ?

Bull****.

And you call us "pathetic" ? What a joke.

Yep, you wogs are indeed a joke.
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 2:50:06 PM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:
On 02/09/2019 10:17 PM, wrote:
I am not sure about what happened in the upside down world south of
the equator but we sold the **** out of PCs being used as smart
terminals here in the US. In fact by the early 90s it was getting hard
to find dumb terminals in anything but the places with the simplest
applications with marginally trained workers.

It's been a while since I've seen an ADM-3A or VT100

We had a VT100 lying around until just a few years
ago, when our COO went on a cleaning binge.

Mine is still around somewhere, at the bottom of an immense pile of junk.
Along with most of a DEC LSI 11/23 which was my personal computer
before my first PC, a 286. I never bothered with a PC or XT clone.

We had VT220s and VT320s being used until 1999 for our
ERP system, when they switched to a PC-based application.
And we're still using that 1999 software. *sigh*

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 3:06:53 PM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:
On 02/10/2019 06:58 AM, wrote:
The PC Jr was a joke as was the PS/1 and I doubt anyone really cared
much about it. That was at a time when IBM was throwing anything they
could at the wall and hoping it would stick.

I visited a friend that I'd not seen for some time. He worked at IBM
Essex Junction and had a doctorate but he was strictly a hardware guy.
He said he'd finally bought a PC and dragged one of those damn things
out. I gagged.

It's pretty bad when you're upstaged by RatShack/Tandy's 1000.

I'll admit in the '80s I wasn't too sure what Joe Sixpack was going to
do with a PC anyway. They were tools for me and what I was developing
was for industrial or embedded applications. When I bought an Osborne I
it came with SuperCalc and I never figured out what you're supposed to
do with it. 35 years later Excel still is a mystery. People do
impressive things with it but it reminds me of using a screwdriver for a
chisel.

I use it as a sortable table. If I want to do calculations, I write a
C program.

I use excel for anything that needs any real calculation like the
car gas logs and the calculation of the cost of a trip to various
places using the latest cost of gas. Vastly quicker than writing a
program even if you have been doing that for half a century or more.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


wrote in message
...
On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 3:06:53 PM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:
On 02/10/2019 06:58 AM, wrote:
The PC Jr was a joke as was the PS/1 and I doubt anyone really cared
much about it. That was at a time when IBM was throwing anything they
could at the wall and hoping it would stick.

I visited a friend that I'd not seen for some time. He worked at IBM
Essex Junction and had a doctorate but he was strictly a hardware guy.
He said he'd finally bought a PC and dragged one of those damn things
out. I gagged.

It's pretty bad when you're upstaged by RatShack/Tandy's 1000.

I'll admit in the '80s I wasn't too sure what Joe Sixpack was going to
do with a PC anyway. They were tools for me and what I was developing
was for industrial or embedded applications. When I bought an Osborne I
it came with SuperCalc and I never figured out what you're supposed to
do with it. 35 years later Excel still is a mystery. People do
impressive things with it but it reminds me of using a screwdriver for a
chisel.

I use it as a sortable table. If I want to do calculations, I write a
C program.

I use excel for anything that needs any real calculation like the
car gas logs and the calculation of the cost of a trip to various
places using the latest cost of gas. Vastly quicker than writing a
program even if you have been doing that for half a century or more.

And use it instead of a calculator for simple calculations.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 2/11/2019 1:51 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 16:18:57 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/10/2019 3:08 PM, rbowman wrote:


I'll admit in the '80s I wasn't too sure what Joe Sixpack was going to
do with a PC anyway. They were tools for me and what I was developing
was for industrial or embedded applications. When I bought an Osborne I
it came with SuperCalc and I never figured out what you're supposed to
do with it. 35 years later Excel still is a mystery. People do
impressive things with it but it reminds me of using a screwdriver for
a
chisel.


The PC has many uses. For instance. instead of a $10 timer, you can use
a $2000 PC to turn a light on and off.

Excel has many uses too. You can track your utility bills every month
and eliminate the need for a pencil that has to be sharpened on
occasion.

I do use Quicken though. It really does make banking easier and more
accurate than the old checkbook.

My main contact with excel is the data I get on water quality from
DEP.
It is OK if all you want to do is re sort columns and such but if I
really want to crunch numbers I still export it as a CSV, stuff it
into a dBase file and write a script. I assume I could do that with
Excel but this dog is too old too learn a new trick for the little I
need it.

At work I used Excel quite a bit. With a macro it was easy to do
production reports, inventory changes, and the like.

At home, I only had one practical use.

I have quite a few. The sheet that I used to keep track of
my car gasoline use automatically calculates the cost of
a trip to a number of places that I drive to, everything
from the adjacent state capitals to the adjacent towns
etc. That allows me to quickly see if it makes more
sense to fly or drive etc.

I also have some others that calculate the cost of
the beer I brew and the spirits I distil. In the case
of the spirits it makes it easy to see that the cost
of the spirit essences grossly dominates the final
cost and makes it clear that the cost of those is
the thing you need to concentrate on and the
big difference in the cost of something like
scotch and whisky and something like gin
which you can do with the actual seeds which
are very cheap compared with spirit essence.

I also use it for batch notes with the stuff I make
like the tomato chilli relish and marmalade.
Much quick than a full database which I do
have for other more complex stuff like recipes
which auto set a swag of alarms in Outlook.

About 9 years ago I had a new, higher efficiency boiler installed. The
idea was the savings would pay for it over time. I tracked oil use and
degree days for two years with the old boiler, then started tracking the
new one. I used the same weather station for degree days. In seven
years, the cost of the boiler was saved, then I started to come ahead.
Then we sold the house anyway so the new owner gets the majority of
benefits.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 09:43:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/11/2019 1:51 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 16:18:57 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/10/2019 3:08 PM, rbowman wrote:


I'll admit in the '80s I wasn't too sure what Joe Sixpack was going to
do with a PC anyway. They were tools for me and what I was developing
was for industrial or embedded applications. When I bought an Osborne
I
it came with SuperCalc and I never figured out what you're supposed to
do with it. 35 years later Excel still is a mystery. People do
impressive things with it but it reminds me of using a screwdriver for
a
chisel.


The PC has many uses. For instance. instead of a $10 timer, you can
use
a $2000 PC to turn a light on and off.

Excel has many uses too. You can track your utility bills every month
and eliminate the need for a pencil that has to be sharpened on
occasion.

I do use Quicken though. It really does make banking easier and more
accurate than the old checkbook.

My main contact with excel is the data I get on water quality from
DEP.
It is OK if all you want to do is re sort columns and such but if I
really want to crunch numbers I still export it as a CSV, stuff it
into a dBase file and write a script. I assume I could do that with
Excel but this dog is too old too learn a new trick for the little I
need it.

At work I used Excel quite a bit. With a macro it was easy to do
production reports, inventory changes, and the like.

At home, I only had one practical use. About 9 years ago I had a new,
higher efficiency boiler installed. The idea was the savings would pay
for it over time. I tracked oil use and degree days for two years with
the old boiler, then started tracking the new one. I used the same
weather station for degree days. In seven years, the cost of the boiler
was saved, then I started to come ahead. Then we sold the house anyway
so the new owner gets the majority of benefits.

There are Excel people who can do wonders with it but it is the tool
they know. I am the same way with dBase. I have done dBase tricks like
writing out a loan table and printing payment coupons that I am sure
would be better suited to Excel but I use what I know.

Makes more sense to know a variety of useful tools.

"Shadow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 03:50:57 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Shadow" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 11:50:03 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Shadow" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 14:35:48 -0500, George
wrote:

Socialist
Ocasio-Cortez
makes Al Gore proud!

That's good to know.
Another reason to vote for her.

I don't trust that Pelosi woman. She's a democrat, but acts
like a repuglican. She's no better than the Clinton woman, IMHO.

Well, the US has a good candidate.

Nope, a hopeless one.

Why ?

Usual mindless socialist crap, put it all
on the card with no way to pay for it all.

She can't be worse than Trump. Nobody can.

That's a completely stupid way to decide who should be prez.

Now work to make it happen

Not possible, you watch.

!!!!! I'm sick of Trump making the US a joke.

What you wogs are sick of is irrelevant.

We "wogs" are over 95% of the "people made in the likeness
of your god". It's in the fairy tale, so it must be true.

China is soon to become the World's biggest economy,

Irrelevant that they **** like rabbits.

Birth rates US vs China please ?

and the EU the most important political power.

Completely off wit the ****ing fairys, as always.

I don't believe in that book.

Hence the pathetic attempts to weaken it by "brexits".

The majority who bothered to vote decided they wanted out.

You clowns can't even work out how to
run you own pathetic excuse for a country.

YOU don't know how to run it. It's just another US colony now.

If it is, you clowns were the ones who allowed that to happen.

10% of us are illiterate.

Don't have to be able to read to be able
to listen to the lies all politicians spew.

And voting is mandatory.

So is ours.

Add all TVs saying Bolsonaro is the only candidate,

Why would anyone believe that **** ?

hundreds of millions of Facebook WhatsApp
posts saying the social democrats are going
to make homosexuality mandatory,

Why would anyone believe that **** ?

Google censoring the search pages and that's
what happens. They "elect" a dictatorship.

How odd that no one else did.

You used the same scheme the Russians did to elect Trump.

The russians had **** all to do with why Trump got elected.

Hundreds of millions of #FAKE_POSTS elected Bolsonaro.

Bull****.

Oracle even gave a speech on how they did it.

Just because some fool politician claims something...

How long is it going to take you to kill your psychotic
proxy and install a "democratic" dictatorship ? You
are not as efficient as you were 55 years ago.

I'm not a yank, stupid.

And I'm not stupid,

Obvious lie.

But I suppose decadence has something to do
with that. 14% of Amerikans can't read and write ?

Bull****.

And you call us "pathetic" ? What a joke.

Yep, you wogs are indeed a joke.
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 07:12:18 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 09:43:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/11/2019 1:51 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 16:18:57 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/10/2019 3:08 PM, rbowman wrote:


I'll admit in the '80s I wasn't too sure what Joe Sixpack was going to
do with a PC anyway. They were tools for me and what I was developing
was for industrial or embedded applications. When I bought an Osborne
I
it came with SuperCalc and I never figured out what you're supposed to
do with it. 35 years later Excel still is a mystery. People do
impressive things with it but it reminds me of using a screwdriver for
a
chisel.


The PC has many uses. For instance. instead of a $10 timer, you can
use
a $2000 PC to turn a light on and off.

Excel has many uses too. You can track your utility bills every month
and eliminate the need for a pencil that has to be sharpened on
occasion.

I do use Quicken though. It really does make banking easier and more
accurate than the old checkbook.

My main contact with excel is the data I get on water quality from
DEP.
It is OK if all you want to do is re sort columns and such but if I
really want to crunch numbers I still export it as a CSV, stuff it
into a dBase file and write a script. I assume I could do that with
Excel but this dog is too old too learn a new trick for the little I
need it.

At work I used Excel quite a bit. With a macro it was easy to do
production reports, inventory changes, and the like.

At home, I only had one practical use. About 9 years ago I had a new,
higher efficiency boiler installed. The idea was the savings would pay
for it over time. I tracked oil use and degree days for two years with
the old boiler, then started tracking the new one. I used the same
weather station for degree days. In seven years, the cost of the boiler
was saved, then I started to come ahead. Then we sold the house anyway
so the new owner gets the majority of benefits.

There are Excel people who can do wonders with it but it is the tool
they know. I am the same way with dBase. I have done dBase tricks like
writing out a loan table and printing payment coupons that I am sure
would be better suited to Excel but I use what I know.

Makes more sense to know a variety of useful tools.

It would if I needed them and I can poke around in Excel but I don't
write excel scripts.
I also don't really care about what it costs to drive to the grocery
store., I am going anyway and there is not much I can do about but get
the fuel as cheaply as possible.
I always use the 20% off gift cards from the grocery store and a 5
cent a gallon loyalty card from the oil company, Some time that can be
as high as 20 cents off with the right promotion going on.

Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us...



On 2/8/2019 5:43 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 12:40:56 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 2/7/2019 5:20 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 07 Feb 2019 16:45:58 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 16:15:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/7/2019 2:35 PM, George wrote:
Socialist Ocasio-Kotex makes Al Gore proud!

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/pe...eam-2019-02-07



I like this comment. Should be simple if you want to live in the dark

Ocasio-Cortez and Massachusetts Sen. Markey are aiming to eliminate the
U.S. carbon footprint by 2030.

This is how dumb AOC is.
The Green New Deal would be paid for ?the same way we paid for the
original New Deal, World War II, the bank bailouts, tax cuts for the
rich and decades of war ? with public money appropriated by Congress,?
Ocasio-Cortez said.

We can't even raise the taxes to pay the government's bills now. We
are borrowing close to a trillion a year. Let's see how it works for
the democrats if they want to raise taxes enough to pay for the "Green
Deal".

We are all going to drown in debt long before sea level rise gets
anyone

Her mother should have taught her: "money doesn't grow on trees".


I believe her college degree is in economics. This says a lot about the
sorry state of today's colleges.

_Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a Democratic Socialists of America
member. Here?'s what that means._

"... What does DSA believe in?

Like most socialist organizations, DSA believes in the abolition
of capitalism in favor of an economy run either by ?the workers? or
the state ? though the exact specifics of ?abolishing capitalism? are
fiercely debated by socialists.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/27/17509604/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-democratic-socialist-of-america

She ain't the brightest, for sure.

Without fossil fuel -- the USA stops function. Can't build wind
turbines, solar panels, etc. without oil.

Her seamstrest can't make her clothes, cotton can't be ginned and no
sewing needles can be made anymore.

The clown is ****in' nuts. Fuzzy Maff ain't hard.

You have something against making spears and wearing animal hides? Once
the factories stop making stuff we can take over the buildings for the
homeless. The factory cafeteria will become the local soup kitchen for
the residents.

Along those lines, a three bedroom home can be taken over by the
government and made into a three family home. The residents can eat
beans and heat it with natural gas.

When will they outlaw human flatulence?

--
Tekkie

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 07:12:18 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 09:43:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/11/2019 1:51 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 16:18:57 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/10/2019 3:08 PM, rbowman wrote:


I'll admit in the '80s I wasn't too sure what Joe Sixpack was going
to
do with a PC anyway. They were tools for me and what I was
developing
was for industrial or embedded applications. When I bought an
Osborne
I
it came with SuperCalc and I never figured out what you're supposed
to
do with it. 35 years later Excel still is a mystery. People do
impressive things with it but it reminds me of using a screwdriver
for
a
chisel.


The PC has many uses. For instance. instead of a $10 timer, you can
use
a $2000 PC to turn a light on and off.

Excel has many uses too. You can track your utility bills every
month
and eliminate the need for a pencil that has to be sharpened on
occasion.

I do use Quicken though. It really does make banking easier and more
accurate than the old checkbook.

My main contact with excel is the data I get on water quality from
DEP.
It is OK if all you want to do is re sort columns and such but if I
really want to crunch numbers I still export it as a CSV, stuff it
into a dBase file and write a script. I assume I could do that with
Excel but this dog is too old too learn a new trick for the little I
need it.

At work I used Excel quite a bit. With a macro it was easy to do
production reports, inventory changes, and the like.

At home, I only had one practical use. About 9 years ago I had a new,
higher efficiency boiler installed. The idea was the savings would pay
for it over time. I tracked oil use and degree days for two years with
the old boiler, then started tracking the new one. I used the same
weather station for degree days. In seven years, the cost of the boiler
was saved, then I started to come ahead. Then we sold the house anyway
so the new owner gets the majority of benefits.

There are Excel people who can do wonders with it but it is the tool
they know. I am the same way with dBase. I have done dBase tricks
like writing out a loan table and printing payment coupons that I
am sure would be better suited to Excel but I use what I know.

Makes more sense to know a variety of useful tools.

It would if I needed them and I can poke
around in Excel but I don't write excel scripts.

You don't need a script to do that.

I also don't really care about what it costs to drive to the
grocery store., I am going anyway and there is not much
I can do about but get the fuel as cheaply as possible.

It does show you that it makes no sense to do a special trip
for one of the specials when the cost of the trip is more than
you save. Ditto with one operation that has a 5% discount for
seniors only on Thursdays. I normally do the supermarket run
after the garage/yard sale run very early on Saturday morning.

And our local Aldi doesn't have a liquor license and I can
see if its worth going to the adjacent town whose Aldi
does have a liquor license and cheaper gasoline too.

I always use the 20% off gift cards from the grocery store and a 5
cent a gallon loyalty card from the oil company, Some time that
can be as high as 20 cents off with the right promotion going on.

Yeah, one of our gas stations has a discount for seniors of 4c/litre
which normally only saves me about $2 per tank full, but since its
the closest gas station anyway, might as well have that saving in
a total bill normally in the $40s when its gas price is a low as any.

posted for all of us...



They gave the PC business away to establish the x86 standard and pave
the way for their proprietary machine. Although most people seldom
ever saw a PS/2 except on TV, it was very successful for IBM in the
business world. The goal was to replace every dumb terminal with a
PS/2 and that was very successful.


Yeah, it was going good until companies started making emulation boards.

--
Tekkie

Ralph Mowery posted for all of us...



In article ,
says...



The other two are the Medical profession and lawyers.

That's totally false. There are all millions of all kinds of medical
professionals and lawyers in the market, that are competitors.





I did not mean it was a manopoloy by strict definition.

Say I want to open up a business to repair TV sets. All I have to do is
go to the court house and fill out a few forms and open up my business.

If I want to be a lawyer, I have to do all sorts of things. Go to
school (can't learn law by myself), pass a law exam and probably
many other things. Same with the doctors. Notice that then have never
advertised the prices. Maybe the are now. Say I have a broken bone,
can I look on the internet and see how much it will cost ? no. I think
I may have the flu. Can I look in the news paper and see any prices for
a doctor, no.

About the same with lawyers. Say I want a lawyer to go to court for a
trafic ticket. How do I find out how much it will cost for a lawyer? I
bet that if I called around thew would all be the same.

The medical schools only let in so many people each year to be doctors
and nurses. I remember when the machines to 'blast' the kindey stones
first came out. They would not let the local hospital have one because
it would make the treatment cost come down due to competition.

I read a book MANY years ago called: "The Screwing of the Average Man"
written by someone I cannot recall. He called these organizations 'guilds'
and the actions you describe as 'occupational birth control'. Got too many
lawyers - make the tests harder, etc. Someone stole the copy I had. Another
was called: "Unreliable Sources" about the 'news' industry. These are about
50 years old but still applicable to today.

--
Tekkie

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 16:52:39 -0500, Tekkie®
wrote:

posted for all of us...



They gave the PC business away to establish the x86 standard and pave
the way for their proprietary machine. Although most people seldom
ever saw a PS/2 except on TV, it was very successful for IBM in the
business world. The goal was to replace every dumb terminal with a
PS/2 and that was very successful.


Yeah, it was going good until companies started making emulation boards.

PS/2 was a pretty good business machine. The architecture was
proprietary so you didn't have dozens of people making cards with
questionable interfaces and all of the IRQ problems you had on the ISA
bus. Drivers were also all coordinated so you didn't have a video
driver stealing resources from something else.
You plug a PS/2 card in, run the ref disk and you were done. You also
didn't have would be hardware hackers modifying the machine on their
desk with stuff they brought in from home.
For the home user it sucked. That is probably why they did not sell
well in the consumer market. I always ran them at home but I had
access to free parts for the testing.

On 02/11/2019 08:04 AM, wrote:
It's funny. I used to hate VAX/VMS. Now I hate Windows. I
guess I'm just a hater.

https://www.hpe.com/us/en/product-ca...s.3364735.html

There's still time to go back to VMS. It really wasn't that bad. Five
9's with Server 2016 is a purple unicorn.

I think it's changed but the default for Windows server was to merrily
download updates and reboot. "Hello, 911. What is your emergency? Hang
on a sec, the server is rebooting."

The flip side is the server hasn't been patched since Christ was in
knickers.

On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 4:41:13 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:

When will they outlaw human flatulence?


Please, don't send my husband to jail!

Cindy Hamilton

In article ,
says...

When will they outlaw human flatulence?


Please, don't send my husband to jail!

Cindy Hamilton




Just put a catalytic converter on his butt like on the exhaust pipe of a
car.

I think all cows will require one when the new Green Deal is passed.

There could be a collection bottle required to save the gas to be used
as renewable fuel.

posted for all of us...



On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 15:36:47 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 07:33:23 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 06:23:47 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, February 7, 2019 at 7:09:47 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 15:09:46 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, February 7, 2019 at 5:20:53 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 07 Feb 2019 16:45:58 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 16:15:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/7/2019 2:35 PM, George wrote:
Socialist Ocasio-Kotex makes Al Gore proud!

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/pe...eam-2019-02-07



I like this comment. Should be simple if you want to live in the
dark

Ocasio-Cortez and Massachusetts Sen. Markey are aiming to
eliminate
the
U.S. carbon footprint by 2030.

This is how dumb AOC is.
The Green New Deal would be paid for ?the same way we paid for
the
original New Deal, World War II, the bank bailouts, tax cuts for
the
rich and decades of war ? with public money appropriated by
Congress,?
Ocasio-Cortez said.

We can't even raise the taxes to pay the government's bills now.
We
are borrowing close to a trillion a year. Let's see how it works
for
the democrats if they want to raise taxes enough to pay for the
"Green
Deal".

We are all going to drown in debt long before sea level rise gets
anyone

Her mother should have taught her: "money doesn't grow on trees".

She doesn't think it grows on trees. She says it's in the hands of
the
rich and she wants to redistribute it.

The problem is that people overestimate how much money the rich have
compared to a $20 trillion dollar debt or even the trillion dollar
annual deficit. A huge part of the problem is people think unrealized
capital gains are wealth.

And another problem is that people like her claim that it's unfair that
the founder of a company is worth a billion, while the lowest employees
are only making $30K. It would be nice if those making $30K were making
$40K or $50K instead. The problem is that the govt taking the rich
guy's
billion, running it into the govt coffers, then ****ing it away on moon
beams or people who just don't want to work, doesn't get those workers
a $50K salary either. A good, thriving economy with low unemployment is
a better way of raising their salaries. I'd be willing to at least look
at other ideas to try to raise earnings overall, but taking all the
money
of the rich, stuffing it into govt and silly socialist ideas, just
produces another Venezuela.


The money some CEOs make is the symptom of a much larger problem.
There are far fewer companies controlling far larger portions of the
marketplace. Perhaps a better measure of CEO pay would be the company
gross and market share.
People who control monopolies tend to make a lot of money. We haven't
really tried to do anything about monopolies since the Nixon
administration.

There are no current monopolys, just some very successful operations.

Bull****.

We'll see...

I would start with the drug companies

By definition, if there is more than one, it isnt a monopoly.

There are monopolies in whole classes of drugs. If you need a
particular drug to survive and only one company can sell it, he can
charge what ever he wants. "Your money or your life".
There is also collusion and price fixing among companies that are
supposed to be competing with each other.


but in the US most cable TV companies are monopolies in their areas

But only in their area, not the entire country.

So what? If you live. there it is still a monopoly and unlike what
Trader says, there is virtually any regulation of these monopolies.

and Comcast is a monster owning entertainment from
the studio to the set top box and everything in between.

Still not a monopoly given that you are free to stream off the net etc.

If the cable company is also the only real net provider, you are still
stuck.

Microsoft is also a monopoly by the definition used when
the broke up the phone company and IBM in the 70s.

IBM never had a monopoly
The US department of justice had a different opinion, both in 1956
when they were initially throttled and again 1968 when the DOJ filed
another suit.
and neither did Microsoft.
Yes they did if you used the same guideline the DoJ used in the 50s
and 60s. (based on market share alone)

Innovation exploded when that happened.

Irrelevant to whether it had a monopoly or not. It didn?t.
When the phone company had a monopoly, there was virtually any
innovation.
Without unbundling the phone lines there would have never been a
consumer grade modem and no internet for one thing.
When the telco had a monopoly you couldn't even buy a telephone. you
had to rent it from them. It was illegal to hook up your own even if
you could buy one.
Once the phone system was unbundled prices plunged too.
I pay less now in 2019 dollars for a land line than I did in 1975
dollars then. My bill was typically $35 in 75 depending on how many
distance calls I made. That is about $135 in 2019 dollars
My bill now is less than $30 for my landline with free long distance.

Bell Labs?

--
Tekkie

posted for all of us...



On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 15:20:32 -0700, rbowman wrote:

On 02/09/2019 10:33 AM, wrote:
Yeah $100 for a widget that costs about a quarter to make injecting a
drug that has been around for a half a century ... sweet

A guy at work is diabetic and I was shocked at what he pays for insulin.
My wife was diabetic but I don't remember what we paid. That's not a
statement about my fading memory but the fact the cost was so low it's
like asking me what we paid for a bottle of aspirin in 1971.

That is an excellent example of a 75 (100?) year old drug that they
are raping people over.


I feel the effects every day...

--
Tekkie

trader_4 posted for all of us...



On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 11:14:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 05:24:45 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, February 8, 2019 at 9:41:18 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 07:33:23 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 06:23:47 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, February 7, 2019 at 7:09:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 15:09:46 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, February 7, 2019 at 5:20:53 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 07 Feb 2019 16:45:58 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 16:15:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/7/2019 2:35 PM, George wrote:
Socialist Ocasio-Kotex makes Al Gore proud!

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/pe...eam-2019-02-07



I like this comment. Should be simple if you want to live in the
dark

Ocasio-Cortez and Massachusetts Sen. Markey are aiming to eliminate
the
U.S. carbon footprint by 2030.

This is how dumb AOC is.
The Green New Deal would be paid for ?the same way we paid for the
original New Deal, World War II, the bank bailouts, tax cuts for the
rich and decades of war ? with public money appropriated by
Congress,?
Ocasio-Cortez said.

We can't even raise the taxes to pay the government's bills now. We
are borrowing close to a trillion a year. Let's see how it works for
the democrats if they want to raise taxes enough to pay for the
"Green
Deal".

We are all going to drown in debt long before sea level rise gets
anyone

Her mother should have taught her: "money doesn't grow on trees".

She doesn't think it grows on trees. She says it's in the hands of the
rich and she wants to redistribute it.

The problem is that people overestimate how much money the rich have
compared to a $20 trillion dollar debt or even the trillion dollar
annual deficit. A huge part of the problem is people think unrealized
capital gains are wealth.

And another problem is that people like her claim that it's unfair that
the founder of a company is worth a billion, while the lowest employees
are only making $30K. It would be nice if those making $30K were making
$40K or $50K instead. The problem is that the govt taking the rich guy's
billion, running it into the govt coffers, then ****ing it away on moon
beams or people who just don't want to work, doesn't get those workers
a $50K salary either. A good, thriving economy with low unemployment is
a better way of raising their salaries. I'd be willing to at least look
at other ideas to try to raise earnings overall, but taking all the money
of the rich, stuffing it into govt and silly socialist ideas, just
produces another Venezuela.


The money some CEOs make is the symptom of a much larger problem.
There are far fewer companies controlling far larger portions of the
marketplace. Perhaps a better measure of CEO pay would be the company
gross and market share.
People who control monopolies tend to make a lot of money. We haven't
really tried to do anything about monopolies since the Nixon
administration.

There are no current monopolys, just some very successful operations.

Bull****. I would start with the drug companies

Drug companies are most definitely not monopolies. They are competing
against each other. Sure, company A may be the only one with a certain
new drug for at a any given point in time, but they have competitors
working on their own competing drugs for to treat the same thing.
There are some exceptions, for drugs for rare conditions, where only
one company happens to have a drug and no other company is interested.
But that doesn't make for the definition of a monopoly.

There is certainly competition for mass market drugs that treat things
like baldness or ED but if you have a specialized drug that only
treats a few thousand patients, there is typically only one source and
those people get ****ed.

There is a whole range of drugs between non-essential drugs for baldness
and orphan drugs that only treat a few thousand patients. And I don't
see those people as ****ed. Would you rather they die than the drug
companies offer an expensive drug that it cost them $2 bil to develop?
In many cases, if the govt or insurance won't pay for it, the drug company
reduces the price significantly or gives it away free.




The government makes it too easy for drug companies to extend patents.
There are drugs that have been out there for decades and they make
some insignificant change that allows a whole new patent to be issued
without giving up the right to the old one.



but in the US most
cable TV companies are monopolies in their areas and Comcast is a
monster owning entertainment from the studio to the set top box and
everything in between.

That's true and those monopolies are granted by govt and then they are
regulated, just like other utilities.

No they aren't. The government has no control over pricing nor the
level of service like you would with a water company or a PoCo

Do you speak for all states in the union, or just FL? Given that FL
has laws that allow a known nut that has had 21 police calls to his
house to walk into Dick's and buy all the guns and ammo he wants,
maybe you don't regulate the cable services there, including the rates
they can charge, but most states, including NJ, do.

https://www.nj.gov/bpu/about/faq/


Q. What is regulated by the BPU?

A. The BPU regulates over electric, gas, water, telecommunication, and cable in the state of New Jersey. The BPU has a statutory mandate to ensure safe, adequate and proper utility services at reasonable rates for customers in New Jersey.
Q. What utility aspects does the BPU regulate?

A. The BPU monitors the rates, charges, rules and regulations of most electric, natural gas, water, cable and telecommunication utilities operating within the state of New Jersey.

And ultimately, any community here can kick out a cable operator,
refuse to renew their franchise or allow another cable company in to
compete. In some areas of NJ that is happening, with Verizon and Cablevision beating each other's brains out. Are they as heavily regulated as the
electric company? I'd say no, for example I don't think they regulate
the prices for premium channels, but they do regulate the prices for
basic cable service and the fees for equipment rental.






Microsoft is also a monopoly by the definition used when the broke up
the phone company and IBM in the 70s.

Not even close to the AT&T monopoly. AT&T had control of the phone
system from one end of the call in NY to the other in CA and everywhere
in between. It was all over their system, their eqpt, their rates.

There was no breakup of IBM, the govt dropped that case. But I would
agree that MSFT has been in a position of greater market dominance than
IBM was in the 70s when the DOJ was trying to break it up.

IBM was broken up tho and it was along the guidelines of the terms
sought in the federal suit in anticipation of losing or having to sign
a consent decree like they did in 1956.

Maybe in your dreams. Show us the link to this big breakup. What were
the new companies called and how many shares of stock did each IBM
investor get? It never happened. A couple decades later, IBM chose
to sell off it's PC business, but that sure isn't a break up of IBM
and coming two decades after the end of the dropping of the antitrust
case, it sure isn't attributable to that. Sure, IBM has done some
restructuring, it had it's own crisis, driven by the markets, but it
was not a breakup of the compaany.


separate operating units that were actively competing with each other

Nonsense. That's like saying the operating units at any large company
"compete" with each other.


and they had totally separate structures from engineering to
manufacturing to sales to service. They were not even using common
parts or software and the people lived in separate worlds.
It was easier to integrate Rohm people into the core IBM business than
people from the General Services Division when they finally merged in
the early 90s. .
.


Innovation exploded when that happened.

It did in both the case of AT&T and IBM. One was busted up, the other
was not. It was innovation and market forces that reduced IBM's
dominance. It would have been much harder for innovation to have
busted AT&T, because they controlled everything, including the wires
into your house and it was all wrapped up in govt regulation too.

AT&T had no interest in innovation other than things that improved
it's bottom line

That's pure BS. AT&T spent a fortune on pure research. You don't win
Nobel prizes in physics focusing on the bottom line. Are you trying to
tell us that right after WWII, AT&T knew that the transistor was going
to improve their bottom line? That would be some very remarkable clairvoyance. AT&T stands out way above most companies in that respect.
The transistor, proving the big bang theory correct, is way beyond what
99% of companies do in the way of research.

Who are the regulators at BPU? Political hacks, somebodies BIL, former
executives from the regulated utility, lawyers for the latter and so on.

--
Tekkie

posted for all of us...


It is in lots of places here. The only truly high speed internet is
cable from the TV company or maybe fiber from the phone company but
that will only be in urban areas. I can't get it and I am not exactly
out in the boonies. I am in a city of 30,000 between much larger
cities.
Other than cable, the best I can do is 10m. It works for me but I am
not an HD fanatic.



Talk to your buddy David Cohen. ;-)

--
Tekkie

posted for all of us...



On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 4:41:13 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:

When will they outlaw human flatulence?


Please, don't send my husband to jail!

Cindy Hamilton

Does he pull the sheets over your head? ;-)

--
Tekkie

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 14:35:41 -0500, Tekkie®
wrote:

posted for all of us...



On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 15:36:47 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 07:33:23 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 06:23:47 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, February 7, 2019 at 7:09:47 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 15:09:46 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, February 7, 2019 at 5:20:53 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 07 Feb 2019 16:45:58 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 16:15:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/7/2019 2:35 PM, George wrote:
Socialist Ocasio-Kotex makes Al Gore proud!

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/pe...eam-2019-02-07



I like this comment. Should be simple if you want to live in the
dark

Ocasio-Cortez and Massachusetts Sen. Markey are aiming to
eliminate
the
U.S. carbon footprint by 2030.

This is how dumb AOC is.
The Green New Deal would be paid for ?the same way we paid for
the
original New Deal, World War II, the bank bailouts, tax cuts for
the
rich and decades of war ? with public money appropriated by
Congress,?
Ocasio-Cortez said.

We can't even raise the taxes to pay the government's bills now.
We
are borrowing close to a trillion a year. Let's see how it works
for
the democrats if they want to raise taxes enough to pay for the
"Green
Deal".

We are all going to drown in debt long before sea level rise gets
anyone

Her mother should have taught her: "money doesn't grow on trees".

She doesn't think it grows on trees. She says it's in the hands of
the
rich and she wants to redistribute it.

The problem is that people overestimate how much money the rich have
compared to a $20 trillion dollar debt or even the trillion dollar
annual deficit. A huge part of the problem is people think unrealized
capital gains are wealth.

And another problem is that people like her claim that it's unfair that
the founder of a company is worth a billion, while the lowest employees
are only making $30K. It would be nice if those making $30K were making
$40K or $50K instead. The problem is that the govt taking the rich
guy's
billion, running it into the govt coffers, then ****ing it away on moon
beams or people who just don't want to work, doesn't get those workers
a $50K salary either. A good, thriving economy with low unemployment is
a better way of raising their salaries. I'd be willing to at least look
at other ideas to try to raise earnings overall, but taking all the
money
of the rich, stuffing it into govt and silly socialist ideas, just
produces another Venezuela.


The money some CEOs make is the symptom of a much larger problem.
There are far fewer companies controlling far larger portions of the
marketplace. Perhaps a better measure of CEO pay would be the company
gross and market share.
People who control monopolies tend to make a lot of money. We haven't
really tried to do anything about monopolies since the Nixon
administration.

There are no current monopolys, just some very successful operations.

Bull****.

We'll see...

I would start with the drug companies

By definition, if there is more than one, it isnt a monopoly.

There are monopolies in whole classes of drugs. If you need a
particular drug to survive and only one company can sell it, he can
charge what ever he wants. "Your money or your life".
There is also collusion and price fixing among companies that are
supposed to be competing with each other.


but in the US most cable TV companies are monopolies in their areas

But only in their area, not the entire country.

So what? If you live. there it is still a monopoly and unlike what
Trader says, there is virtually any regulation of these monopolies.

and Comcast is a monster owning entertainment from
the studio to the set top box and everything in between.

Still not a monopoly given that you are free to stream off the net etc.

If the cable company is also the only real net provider, you are still
stuck.

Microsoft is also a monopoly by the definition used when
the broke up the phone company and IBM in the 70s.

IBM never had a monopoly
The US department of justice had a different opinion, both in 1956
when they were initially throttled and again 1968 when the DOJ filed
another suit.
and neither did Microsoft.
Yes they did if you used the same guideline the DoJ used in the 50s
and 60s. (based on market share alone)

Innovation exploded when that happened.

Irrelevant to whether it had a monopoly or not. It didn?t.
When the phone company had a monopoly, there was virtually any
innovation.
Without unbundling the phone lines there would have never been a
consumer grade modem and no internet for one thing.
When the telco had a monopoly you couldn't even buy a telephone. you
had to rent it from them. It was illegal to hook up your own even if
you could buy one.
Once the phone system was unbundled prices plunged too.
I pay less now in 2019 dollars for a land line than I did in 1975
dollars then. My bill was typically $35 in 75 depending on how many
distance calls I made. That is about $135 in 2019 dollars
My bill now is less than $30 for my landline with free long distance.

Bell Labs?

Century link (Sprint), a company that could not have existed before
the breakup.

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 15:01:16 -0500, Tekkie®
wrote:

posted for all of us...


It is in lots of places here. The only truly high speed internet is
cable from the TV company or maybe fiber from the phone company but
that will only be in urban areas. I can't get it and I am not exactly
out in the boonies. I am in a city of 30,000 between much larger
cities.
Other than cable, the best I can do is 10m. It works for me but I am
not an HD fanatic.



Talk to your buddy David Cohen. ;-)

I would rather watch Paladin reruns on Grit OTA.