On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 10:46:51 -0600, lowbrowman, yet another endlessly
driveling senile idiot, blabbered again:

FLUSH all the senile ****

Oh, just shut your senile stupid gob finally, you useless lonely online
idiot!

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 10:56:49 -0600, lowbrowman, yet another endlessly
driveling senile idiot, blabbered again:

FLUSH senile idiot's inevitable senile drivel

So, is there a "specific" reason why no one else in the States wants to
listen to you, other than this filthy Scottish troll, you senile useless
moron? BG

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 10:41:57 -0600, lowbrowman, yet another endlessly
driveling senile idiot, blabbered again:


https://www.dailywritingtips.com/cou...dnt-care-less/

Idiomatic expressions are idiomatic expressions and I couldn't care less
about antiquated Brit usage.

Geezuz Christ ...must you be lonely! tsk

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 11:09:28 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/08/2018 09:46 AM, wrote:
I wrote some PIOCS assembler in the early 70s but I never had occasion
to get into any of the high level compilers. I was basically a
hardware guy.

In the early '70s most of what I designed employed relay logic, the real
ice cube relays version not the later PLC metaphor. That morphed into
solid state with the infamous SquareD Norpak. You can do anything with
NOR gates, mostly drive yourself crazy.

Then came the microprocessors and while I was still doing board level
hardware design, I needed to do the software to make it work. That
became full time software, but still industrial control or embedded.
Finally I would up where I am now, worrying about pretty GUIs and all
that extraneous ****.

I grew up with relay logic (mechanical steppers, cams, roller contacts
and timing shafts etc) on one side of the business and computer logic
on the other (transistors on cards up to VLSI). I still like relays
but SSRs have taken over for big contactors. I like them because you
can drive one directly from CMOS although I usually put a 2n2222 in
there. In my personal life I have still avoided the PIC thing. I
guess I am the last dinosaur wirewrapping CMOS sockets on perf board.
My Spa and pool controller still uses an intermatic clock motor and 3
cams as the timing element. The spa is CMOS and the pool is switches
and a few relays. (Solars, gas heater, vacuum control etc)

On 04/08/2018 12:11 PM, wrote:
I grew up with relay logic (mechanical steppers, cams, roller contacts
and timing shafts etc) on one side of the business and computer logic
on the other (transistors on cards up to VLSI).

I thought the world had moved on until sometime in the early '80s we got
a contract to build the controllers for airport runway sequential light
systems. The heart of it was an Eagle Signal stepper going thunk, thunk.
The last innovation to those was replacing the cams where you broke off
segments with those where you could snap on segments. That was a real
breakthrough -- you didn't have to disassemble it to replace the cams.

The same project also required the harnesses to be fabricated with
lacing twine. The FAA doesn't trust newfangled ideas.

I still like relays
but SSRs have taken over for big contactors. I like them because you
can drive one directly from CMOS although I usually put a 2n2222 in
there. In my personal life I have still avoided the PIC thing. I
guess I am the last dinosaur wirewrapping CMOS sockets on perf board.
My Spa and pool controller still uses an intermatic clock motor and 3
cams as the timing element. The spa is CMOS and the pool is switches
and a few relays. (Solars, gas heater, vacuum control etc)

I looked at PICs but preferred the Atmel AVR family. An added bonus came
when the Arduino family used Atmel chips. I still have a collection of
wire wrap sockets, CMOS chips, and wrapping tools although I haven't
used them in 20 years or so. If I ever retire I've got a backlog of
projects.

On 04/08/2018 12:17 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 17:41:57 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 04/08/2018 07:25 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
It's COULDN'T care less, think about it.

https://www.dailywritingtips.com/cou...dnt-care-less/


Idiomatic expressions are idiomatic expressions and I couldn't care less
about antiquated Brit usage.

It doesn't matter what other people use, it's illogical if you say "I
COULD care less". The whole point is you're saying that you don't care
very much at all about x. So you COULDN'T care less means you care
almost zero about x.


Logic is the hobgoblin of little minds, to paraphrase Emerson.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 14:06:15 -0600, lowbrowman, yet another endlessly
driveling senile idiot, blabbered again:



Logic is the hobgoblin of little minds, to paraphrase Emerson.

That little mind sure got you twisted around his little finger ...or rather
around his unwashed little cock, you senile cocksucker!

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 11:49:07 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 14:25:25 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 02:22:25 +0100, wrote:


Not when they appear in a PDF.
Most new PDFs can be lit up and exported as a text file.
There are also plenty of tables on web pages and clipped from books
that are not CSV

PDF is one of the most stupidest inventions ever made.

It does seem to be the standard way to move documents around and Adobe
makes sure you need the premium package to do much more than look at
them. Giving away the reader for free was a pretty good business
model tho.

There are loads of free PDF creators around. My favorite is,
strangely enough, named "PDF Creator".

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 19:14:13 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 16:49:07 +0100, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 14:25:25 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 02:22:25 +0100, wrote:


Not when they appear in a PDF.
Most new PDFs can be lit up and exported as a text file.
There are also plenty of tables on web pages and clipped from books
that are not CSV

PDF is one of the most stupidest inventions ever made.

It does seem to be the standard way to move documents around

Not really. A few websites seem to use it, but most just use Word docs.

Bull****.

and Adobe
makes sure you need the premium package to do much more than look at
them. Giving away the reader for free was a pretty good business
model tho.

No, it just irritated everyone providing documents that were difficult to edit or copy stuff from.

More bull****.

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 18:03:41 -0400, , another brain-damaged,
troll-feeding retard, blabbered:


Bull****.

It's the **** he catches you with every day because you like the taste of it
so much, oh senile one!

No, it just irritated everyone providing documents that were difficult to edit or copy stuff from.

More bull****.

And this senile Yankie idiot bites again! LMAO

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 18:02:53 -0400, , another brain-damaged,
troll-feeding retard, blabbered:



There are loads of free PDF creators around. My favorite is,
strangely enough, named "PDF Creator".

I hope your senile computer is full with its notorious adware, you senile
Yankie idiot! LOL

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 19:14:13 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 16:49:07 +0100, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 14:25:25 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 02:22:25 +0100, wrote:


Not when they appear in a PDF.
Most new PDFs can be lit up and exported as a text file.
There are also plenty of tables on web pages and clipped from books
that are not CSV

PDF is one of the most stupidest inventions ever made.

It does seem to be the standard way to move documents around

Not really. A few websites seem to use it, but most just use Word docs.

Not true at all. To start with Microsoft does not have a free DOCX
viewer.


and Adobe
makes sure you need the premium package to do much more than look at
them. Giving away the reader for free was a pretty good business
model tho.

No, it just irritated everyone providing documents that were difficult to edit or copy stuff from.

You can copy most PDFs unless the author restricted them and some even
allow you to fill fields. The tax forms from IRS work that way. You
can fill them out using nothing but the free "reader".

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:36:23 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:28:13 +0100, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 19:14:13 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 16:49:07 +0100, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 14:25:25 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 02:22:25 +0100, wrote:


Not when they appear in a PDF.
Most new PDFs can be lit up and exported as a text file.
There are also plenty of tables on web pages and clipped from books
that are not CSV

PDF is one of the most stupidest inventions ever made.

It does seem to be the standard way to move documents around

Not really. A few websites seem to use it, but most just use Word docs.

Not true at all. To start with Microsoft does not have a free DOCX
viewer.

Everybody has the ability to view word docs. Wordpad will read them, Openoffice will read them. You're not very knowledgeable are you?


It depends on your OS now doesn't it?
Adobe works over a number of platforms.

and Adobe
makes sure you need the premium package to do much more than look at
them. Giving away the reader for free was a pretty good business
model tho.

No, it just irritated everyone providing documents that were difficult to edit or copy stuff from.

You can copy most PDFs unless the author restricted them and some even
allow you to fill fields. The tax forms from IRS work that way. You
can fill them out using nothing but the free "reader".

Never seems to work for me. Especially with Adobe's piece of **** READER, which is for READING only. Why do you think there are so many freeware PDF programs? Even using those, trying to fill out a PDF form is like going back to the 70s and using a typewriter to add numbers in the blank spaces. What's wrong with a normal word processing document?

Now who is not very smart?

On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 23:14:10 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/07/2018 08:51 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 20:28:55 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/07/2018 06:27 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 23:13:56 +0100, wrote:

On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 21:43:32 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 02:22:08 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 04/06/2018 12:22 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 03:31:09 +0100, rbowman
wrote:

On 04/05/2018 09:34 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
The newer windowses are much better when things happen like there's
already a file there with the same name. Nice options are
presented to
you to allow you to compare dates, file sizes, see previews of the
photos etc.

Does Win10 still think ****Me.dat and ****me.dat are the same file?

Probably. I do. Why on earth would I want them to be different?
You'd
have to have severe OCD to want those to be different files. I don't
want to have to remember the case of every file to access it.


Case insensitivity and the damn \ were two of Windows greatest screw
ups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_sensitivity

"Later Windows file systems such as NTFS are internally case-sensitive,
and a readme.txt and a Readme.txt can coexist in the same directory.
However, for practical purposes filenames behave as case-insensitive as
far as users and most software are concerned."

That's an interesting statement. I wonder which one you get?

I've never heard of any MS OS (DOS or Windows) being case sensitive.
And I wouldn't want them to be. Why on earth would you want a
readme.txt and a Readme.txt in the same folder?

I am running NTFS on this XP machine and it will not accept File.txt
and file.txt in the same directory, at least not using the Windoze
file manager.

And so it shouldn't, they are after all the same name.


No, they are not. Do not contemplate a career in programming. Almost all
programming languages are case sensitive.

int fooBar;
int FooBar;
int foobar;

Cobol
Fortran
BASIC
Forth
Assembler

Ah, blasts from the past when Hollerith cards roamed the land...

Well, you made the statement, easily negated. ;-)

Until Fortan 90, it was FORTRAN to remind you. FORTRAN IV was the first
language I used back when McCracken's book was hot off the press. Work
it out on coding forms, and then go try to punch the cards. Fortunately
life has moved on. Not too many people use EBCDIC these days either.

We used the WatFor (University of Waterloo, ON) book and compiler when
I was in high school and for the _one_ programming class I had to take
in college.

FORTH was fun and I even got a job because I knew it. That was even an
excuse for the company to send me to the FORTH conference at Rochester
where Charlie Moore showed up in all his glory. I snuck away for an Emmy
Lou Harris concert too. She was in her pink phase, something she and the
world would rather forget.

;-)

I never got into Forth. A good friend was a real Forth freak, though.

I wrote a lot of assembler and a little BASIC at gunpoint but thank the
Gods never Cobol. Or Algol. Or APL. I don't think APL was case sensitive
since it was mostly written in Martian.

I wrote a _lot_ of BASIC because it was the language (and OS) of the
Tektronix signal processing system I used for several years. I've
written a lot of assembler, too - mostly x86 and x51.

....and APL, mostly for circuit analysis and such. I don't consider
APL a programming language, as such, though.

COBOL, nope. I don't swing that way. ;-)

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 11:46:30 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 23:14:10 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/07/2018 08:51 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 20:28:55 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/07/2018 06:27 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 23:13:56 +0100, wrote:

On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 21:43:32 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Apr 2018 02:22:08 +0100, rbowman wrote:

On 04/06/2018 12:22 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 03:31:09 +0100, rbowman
wrote:

On 04/05/2018 09:34 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
The newer windowses are much better when things happen like there's
already a file there with the same name. Nice options are
presented to
you to allow you to compare dates, file sizes, see previews of the
photos etc.

Does Win10 still think ****Me.dat and ****me.dat are the same file?

Probably. I do. Why on earth would I want them to be different?
You'd
have to have severe OCD to want those to be different files. I don't
want to have to remember the case of every file to access it.


Case insensitivity and the damn \ were two of Windows greatest screw
ups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_sensitivity

"Later Windows file systems such as NTFS are internally case-sensitive,
and a readme.txt and a Readme.txt can coexist in the same directory.
However, for practical purposes filenames behave as case-insensitive as
far as users and most software are concerned."

That's an interesting statement. I wonder which one you get?

I've never heard of any MS OS (DOS or Windows) being case sensitive.
And I wouldn't want them to be. Why on earth would you want a
readme.txt and a Readme.txt in the same folder?

I am running NTFS on this XP machine and it will not accept File.txt
and file.txt in the same directory, at least not using the Windoze
file manager.

And so it shouldn't, they are after all the same name.


No, they are not. Do not contemplate a career in programming. Almost all
programming languages are case sensitive.

int fooBar;
int FooBar;
int foobar;

Cobol
Fortran
BASIC
Forth
Assembler

Ah, blasts from the past when Hollerith cards roamed the land...

Until Fortan 90, it was FORTRAN to remind you. FORTRAN IV was the first
language I used back when McCracken's book was hot off the press. Work
it out on coding forms, and then go try to punch the cards. Fortunately
life has moved on. Not too many people use EBCDIC these days either.

FORTH was fun and I even got a job because I knew it. That was even an
excuse for the company to send me to the FORTH conference at Rochester
where Charlie Moore showed up in all his glory. I snuck away for an Emmy
Lou Harris concert too. She was in her pink phase, something she and the
world would rather forget.

I wrote a lot of assembler and a little BASIC at gunpoint but thank the
Gods never Cobol. Or Algol. Or APL. I don't think APL was case sensitive
since it was mostly written in Martian.


I wrote some PIOCS assembler in the early 70s but I never had occasion
to get into any of the high level compilers. I was basically a
hardware guy.

I still am. I tell them that I don't even know how to spell 'C'. ICK!

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 20:12:49 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:36:23 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:28:13 +0100, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 19:14:13 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 16:49:07 +0100, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 14:25:25 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 02:22:25 +0100, wrote:


Not when they appear in a PDF.
Most new PDFs can be lit up and exported as a text file.
There are also plenty of tables on web pages and clipped from books
that are not CSV

PDF is one of the most stupidest inventions ever made.

It does seem to be the standard way to move documents around

Not really. A few websites seem to use it, but most just use Word docs.

Not true at all. To start with Microsoft does not have a free DOCX
viewer.

Everybody has the ability to view word docs. Wordpad will read them, Openoffice will read them. You're not very knowledgeable are you?


It depends on your OS now doesn't it?
Adobe works over a number of platforms.

It doesn't matter. He's as wrong as wrong can be. PDF *is*
universal.

and Adobe
makes sure you need the premium package to do much more than look at
them. Giving away the reader for free was a pretty good business
model tho.

No, it just irritated everyone providing documents that were difficult to edit or copy stuff from.

You can copy most PDFs unless the author restricted them and some even
allow you to fill fields. The tax forms from IRS work that way. You
can fill them out using nothing but the free "reader".

Never seems to work for me. Especially with Adobe's piece of **** READER, which is for READING only. Why do you think there are so many freeware PDF programs? Even using those, trying to fill out a PDF form is like going back to the 70s and using a typewriter to add numbers in the blank spaces. What's wrong with a normal word processing document?

Now who is not very smart?

Bingo!

On 04/08/2018 06:23 PM, wrote:
I never got into Forth. A good friend was a real Forth freak, though.

Reverse Polish notation separates the men from the boys. I've got a HP
16C calculator. "Can I use your calculator?" was always the start of a
comedy routine. For extra sadism, leave it in hex mode.

...and APL, mostly for circuit analysis and such. I don't consider
APL a programming language, as such, though.

A company I worked for bought an IBM 5120 computer, which in no way
should be confused with a 5160 (IBM XT)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_5120

It came with BASIC and APL ROMs and the keyboard had the APL character
set. It also had BRADS, a sort of ******* stepchild of RPG. IBM referred
to the PALM CPU as a microprocessor but in IBM speak that meant it ran
microcode rather than what everyone else meant by the term. There was an
assembler of sorts that was handy. Their idea of 'locking' a source file
was setting the first byte on the disk to 0x80, iirc.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 20:02:36 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/08/2018 06:23 PM, wrote:
I never got into Forth. A good friend was a real Forth freak, though.

Reverse Polish notation separates the men from the boys. I've got a HP
16C calculator. "Can I use your calculator?" was always the start of a
comedy routine. For extra sadism, leave it in hex mode.

I bought a 45 when I was in college (still works but the power switch
is intermittent). I replace it with an 11C about 30 years ago but it
grew legs. I bought another 11C, in new condition, off fleabay last
year. I've used an 11C emulator on my smart phone since I've been
using smart phones. I appreciate RPN. In fact, I can't use an
arithmetic notation calculator. ;-)

...and APL, mostly for circuit analysis and such. I don't consider
APL a programming language, as such, though.

A company I worked for bought an IBM 5120 computer, which in no way
should be confused with a 5160 (IBM XT)

It's a 5100 with 8" floppies. ;-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_5120

It came with BASIC and APL ROMs and the keyboard had the APL character
set. It also had BRADS, a sort of ******* stepchild of RPG. IBM referred
to the PALM CPU as a microprocessor but in IBM speak that meant it ran
microcode rather than what everyone else meant by the term. There was an
assembler of sorts that was handy. Their idea of 'locking' a source file
was setting the first byte on the disk to 0x80, iirc.

No, the PALM was a microprocessor, by all definitions. Yes, it was
microcoded but that's besides the point.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 20:02:36 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/08/2018 06:23 PM, wrote:
I never got into Forth. A good friend was a real Forth freak, though.

Reverse Polish notation separates the men from the boys. I've got a HP
16C calculator. "Can I use your calculator?" was always the start of a
comedy routine. For extra sadism, leave it in hex mode.

...and APL, mostly for circuit analysis and such. I don't consider
APL a programming language, as such, though.

A company I worked for bought an IBM 5120 computer, which in no way
should be confused with a 5160 (IBM XT)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_5120

It came with BASIC and APL ROMs and the keyboard had the APL character
set. It also had BRADS, a sort of ******* stepchild of RPG. IBM referred
to the PALM CPU as a microprocessor but in IBM speak that meant it ran
microcode rather than what everyone else meant by the term. There was an
assembler of sorts that was handy. Their idea of 'locking' a source file
was setting the first byte on the disk to 0x80, iirc.

I was writing S/360 Assembler

On 04/08/2018 09:05 PM, wrote:
No, the PALM was a microprocessor, by all definitions. Yes, it was
microcoded but that's besides the point.


http://classiccmp.org/dunfield/ibm5100/h/i5ctrl.jpg

Well, if you want to call that a microprocessor...

On 04/08/2018 10:44 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 20:02:36 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/08/2018 06:23 PM, wrote:
I never got into Forth. A good friend was a real Forth freak, though.

Reverse Polish notation separates the men from the boys. I've got a HP
16C calculator. "Can I use your calculator?" was always the start of a
comedy routine. For extra sadism, leave it in hex mode.

...and APL, mostly for circuit analysis and such. I don't consider
APL a programming language, as such, though.

A company I worked for bought an IBM 5120 computer, which in no way
should be confused with a 5160 (IBM XT)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_5120

It came with BASIC and APL ROMs and the keyboard had the APL character
set. It also had BRADS, a sort of ******* stepchild of RPG. IBM referred
to the PALM CPU as a microprocessor but in IBM speak that meant it ran
microcode rather than what everyone else meant by the term. There was an
assembler of sorts that was handy. Their idea of 'locking' a source file
was setting the first byte on the disk to 0x80, iirc.

I was writing S/360 Assembler


Let me guess... Plastic pocket protector with the little cheat sheet
card to construct opcodes out of octal values on the fly?

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 19:28:13 -0400, , the mentally
challenged, notorious, troll-feeding retard, blabbered again:


You can copy most PDFs unless the author restricted them and some even
allow you to fill fields. The tax forms from IRS work that way. You
can fill them out using nothing but the free "reader".

This senile Yankie idiot just doesn't get who he's talking to! LOL

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 20:12:49 -0400, , the mentally
challenged, notorious, troll-feeding retard, blabbered again:


is like going back to the 70s and using a typewriter to add numbers in
the blank spaces. What's wrong with a normal word processing document?

Now who is not very smart?

The idiot who keeps taking every single bait set out by the gay Scottish
******? BG

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 23:29:23 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/08/2018 10:44 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 20:02:36 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/08/2018 06:23 PM, wrote:
I never got into Forth. A good friend was a real Forth freak, though.

Reverse Polish notation separates the men from the boys. I've got a HP
16C calculator. "Can I use your calculator?" was always the start of a
comedy routine. For extra sadism, leave it in hex mode.

...and APL, mostly for circuit analysis and such. I don't consider
APL a programming language, as such, though.

A company I worked for bought an IBM 5120 computer, which in no way
should be confused with a 5160 (IBM XT)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_5120

It came with BASIC and APL ROMs and the keyboard had the APL character
set. It also had BRADS, a sort of ******* stepchild of RPG. IBM referred
to the PALM CPU as a microprocessor but in IBM speak that meant it ran
microcode rather than what everyone else meant by the term. There was an
assembler of sorts that was handy. Their idea of 'locking' a source file
was setting the first byte on the disk to 0x80, iirc.

I was writing S/360 Assembler


Let me guess... Plastic pocket protector with the little cheat sheet
card to construct opcodes out of octal values on the fly?

No pocket protector but everyone had a green card.
"Octal"? IBM didn't use octal on anything I ever saw. It was BCD or
Hex.

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 12:54:13 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 01:12:49 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:36:23 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:28:13 +0100, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 19:14:13 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 16:49:07 +0100, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 14:25:25 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 02:22:25 +0100, wrote:


Not when they appear in a PDF.
Most new PDFs can be lit up and exported as a text file.
There are also plenty of tables on web pages and clipped from books
that are not CSV

PDF is one of the most stupidest inventions ever made.

It does seem to be the standard way to move documents around

Not really. A few websites seem to use it, but most just use Word docs.

Not true at all. To start with Microsoft does not have a free DOCX
viewer.

Everybody has the ability to view word docs. Wordpad will read them, Openoffice will read them. You're not very knowledgeable are you?


It depends on your OS now doesn't it?
Adobe works over a number of platforms.

OpenOffice etc works on MacOS and Linux too doesn't it? And who the **** doesn't use Windows?

and Adobe
makes sure you need the premium package to do much more than look at
them. Giving away the reader for free was a pretty good business
model tho.

No, it just irritated everyone providing documents that were difficult to edit or copy stuff from.

You can copy most PDFs unless the author restricted them and some even
allow you to fill fields. The tax forms from IRS work that way. You
can fill them out using nothing but the free "reader".

Never seems to work for me. Especially with Adobe's piece of **** READER, which is for READING only. Why do you think there are so many freeware PDF programs? Even using those, trying to fill out a PDF form is like going back to the 70s and using a typewriter to add numbers in the blank spaces. What's wrong with a normal word processing document?

Now who is not very smart?

PDF isn't as usable as doc, end of story.

Why are you bitching at me. I just pointed out PDF seems to be the way
documents are distributed. It doesn't matter whether it is an owner's
book printed in Chinese, the National Electric Code or my tax forms.
Maybe it is because the author can set the security level and limit
use as easily as they do.

On 04/09/2018 04:57 AM, wrote:
No pocket protector but everyone had a green card.
"Octal"? IBM didn't use octal on anything I ever saw. It was BCD or
Hex.

It's been a long time but I remembered 360 opcodes using 3 bit
designations for the registers and operations.

On 04/09/2018 09:55 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 16:49:04 +0100, James Wilkinson Sword
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 16:14:41 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 12:54:13 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 01:12:49 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:36:23 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:28:13 +0100, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 19:14:13 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 16:49:07 +0100, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 14:25:25 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 02:22:25 +0100, wrote:


Not when they appear in a PDF.
Most new PDFs can be lit up and exported as a text file.
There are also plenty of tables on web pages and clipped from
books
that are not CSV

PDF is one of the most stupidest inventions ever made.

It does seem to be the standard way to move documents around

Not really. A few websites seem to use it, but most just use
Word docs.

Not true at all. To start with Microsoft does not have a free DOCX
viewer.

Everybody has the ability to view word docs. Wordpad will read
them, Openoffice will read them. You're not very knowledgeable
are you?


It depends on your OS now doesn't it?
Adobe works over a number of platforms.

OpenOffice etc works on MacOS and Linux too doesn't it? And who the
**** doesn't use Windows?

and Adobe
makes sure you need the premium package to do much more than
look at
them. Giving away the reader for free was a pretty good business
model tho.

No, it just irritated everyone providing documents that were
difficult to edit or copy stuff from.

You can copy most PDFs unless the author restricted them and some
even
allow you to fill fields. The tax forms from IRS work that way. You
can fill them out using nothing but the free "reader".

Never seems to work for me. Especially with Adobe's piece of ****
READER, which is for READING only. Why do you think there are so
many freeware PDF programs? Even using those, trying to fill out
a PDF form is like going back to the 70s and using a typewriter to
add numbers in the blank spaces. What's wrong with a normal word
processing document?

Now who is not very smart?

PDF isn't as usable as doc, end of story.

Why are you bitching at me. I just pointed out PDF seems to be the way
documents are distributed. It doesn't matter whether it is an owner's
book printed in Chinese, the National Electric Code or my tax forms.
Maybe it is because the author can set the security level and limit
use as easily as they do.

I don't have the same experience, I more often receive a doc or docx
file. Government departments are still on pdf, but not the rest of
the UK.

Mainly because people use Word or similar to create documents, so why
should they have to find a bloody PDF convertor?


Most of our functional specification documents and the like are given to
the clients in pdf format precisely so they can't edit them to say what
they wished they would say.

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 10:19:51 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/09/2018 04:57 AM, wrote:
No pocket protector but everyone had a green card.
"Octal"? IBM didn't use octal on anything I ever saw. It was BCD or
Hex.

It's been a long time but I remembered 360 opcodes using 3 bit
designations for the registers and operations.

Nobody referred to them as being octal. The various fields were of
different lengths. Typically you were actually filling them bit by
bit. If you were writing LOICS they were largely invisible to you
anyway, you were guided by the assembler but if you wrote PIOCS you
were actually writing the CCWs and had far more control. If you knew
how STIXIT worked, you could even write your own PSW and insert it,
allowing you to change the problem state bit and other scary things.
I wrote the only program I ever saw that actually used that big red
"interrupt" button on a 360 console.
I was the most dangerous kind of programmer. I came at that stuff from
the hardware side. ;-)
"Supervisor and I/O macros" was my favorite book.

Never seems to work for me.* Especially with Adobe's piece of ****
READER, which is for READING only.* Why do you think there are so
many freeware PDF programs?* Even using those, trying to fill out
a PDF form is like going back to the 70s and using a typewriter to
add numbers in the blank spaces.* What's wrong with a normal word
processing document?

Now who is not very smart?

PDF isn't as usable as doc, end of story.

Why are you bitching at me. I just pointed out PDF seems to be the way
documents are distributed. It doesn't matter whether it is an owner's
book printed in Chinese, the National Electric Code or my tax forms.
Maybe it is because the author can set the security level and limit
use as easily as they do.

I don't have the same experience, I more often receive a doc or docx
file.* Government departments are still on pdf, but not the rest of
the UK.

Mainly because people use Word or similar to create documents, so why
should they have to find a bloody PDF convertor?


Most of our functional specification documents and the like are given to
the clients in pdf format precisely so they can't edit them to say what
they wished they would say.

Except you CAN edit them, just not with the free PDF reader.

An altered PDF document will leave a virtual paper trail.

--
Bod

On 09/04/2018 17:47, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 17:41:21 +0100, Bod wrote:


Never seems to work for me.* Especially with Adobe's piece of
****
READER, which is for READING only.* Why do you think there are so
many freeware PDF programs?* Even using those, trying to fill out
a PDF form is like going back to the 70s and using a
typewriter to
add numbers in the blank spaces.* What's wrong with a normal word
processing document?

Now who is not very smart?

PDF isn't as usable as doc, end of story.

Why are you bitching at me. I just pointed out PDF seems to be
the way
documents are distributed. It doesn't matter whether it is an
owner's
book printed in Chinese, the National Electric Code or my tax forms.
Maybe it is because the author can set the security level and limit
use as easily as they do.

I don't have the same experience, I more often receive a doc or docx
file.* Government departments are still on pdf, but not the rest of
the UK.

Mainly because people use Word or similar to create documents, so why
should they have to find a bloody PDF convertor?


Most of our functional specification documents and the like are
given to
the clients in pdf format precisely so they can't edit them to say what
they wished they would say.

Except you CAN edit them, just not with the free PDF reader.

An altered PDF document will leave a virtual paper trail.

Not if you print it.

And anyway, so would an altered Word Doc.

Advantages Of Using PDF Files
PDF Files Meet Legal Document Requirements
PDF Advantages - LegalScans

For an electronic document to be admissible in a court of law, it must
be created in a file format that cannot be altered without leaving an
electronic footprint. To satisfy this requirement, the imaging industry
has diverged in two different directions:

http://www.legalscans.com/whypdf.html

--
Bod

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 17:47:07 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 17:31:19 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 10:19:51 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/09/2018 04:57 AM, wrote:
No pocket protector but everyone had a green card.
"Octal"? IBM didn't use octal on anything I ever saw. It was BCD or
Hex.

It's been a long time but I remembered 360 opcodes using 3 bit
designations for the registers and operations.

Nobody referred to them as being octal. The various fields were of
different lengths. Typically you were actually filling them bit by
bit. If you were writing LOICS they were largely invisible to you
anyway, you were guided by the assembler but if you wrote PIOCS you
were actually writing the CCWs and had far more control. If you knew
how STIXIT worked, you could even write your own PSW and insert it,
allowing you to change the problem state bit and other scary things.
I wrote the only program I ever saw that actually used that big red
"interrupt" button on a 360 console.
I was the most dangerous kind of programmer. I came at that stuff from
the hardware side. ;-)
"Supervisor and I/O macros" was my favorite book.

You are specifically told not to touch the buttons:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Sy...rofile.agr.jpg

Nobody ever told me that. In fact I spent a lot of time in various
schools finding out what they all did. I agree typical users had no
use for most of them and when the machine was running, most had no
effect anyway. Lots of people, even a lot of programmers, were
surprised when I made the interrupt button do something.
They would have even been scared if they knew what I was doing with
it.
After showing the STIXIT trick to a few students at the college, one
did take the machine away from them using a program running in
background. He left the machine in "system state" and assumed it would
switch back. Nope. The next student who tried to execute a privileged
instruction, succeeded and crashed the system. Fortunately no real
damage was done.

On 04/09/2018 11:56 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 18:41:28 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 17:47:07 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 17:31:19 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 10:19:51 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/09/2018 04:57 AM, wrote:
No pocket protector but everyone had a green card.
"Octal"? IBM didn't use octal on anything I ever saw. It was BCD or
Hex.

It's been a long time but I remembered 360 opcodes using 3 bit
designations for the registers and operations.

Nobody referred to them as being octal. The various fields were of
different lengths. Typically you were actually filling them bit by
bit. If you were writing LOICS they were largely invisible to you
anyway, you were guided by the assembler but if you wrote PIOCS you
were actually writing the CCWs and had far more control. If you knew
how STIXIT worked, you could even write your own PSW and insert it,
allowing you to change the problem state bit and other scary things.
I wrote the only program I ever saw that actually used that big red
"interrupt" button on a 360 console.
I was the most dangerous kind of programmer. I came at that stuff from
the hardware side. ;-)
"Supervisor and I/O macros" was my favorite book.

You are specifically told not to touch the buttons:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Sy...rofile.agr.jpg


Nobody ever told me that. In fact I spent a lot of time in various
schools finding out what they all did. I agree typical users had no
use for most of them and when the machine was running, most had no
effect anyway. Lots of people, even a lot of programmers, were
surprised when I made the interrupt button do something.
They would have even been scared if they knew what I was doing with
it.

You'd think a big red interrupt button would stop it at all costs.

After showing the STIXIT trick to a few students at the college, one
did take the machine away from them using a program running in
background. He left the machine in "system state" and assumed it would
switch back. Nope. The next student who tried to execute a privileged
instruction, succeeded and crashed the system. Fortunately no real
damage was done.

Damage?! You mean like timing belt snapping damage?


It wouldn't be caused by a privileged instruction but the possibility
existed for some interesting physical disasters:

https://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/e...rage_2401.html
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/1403.html

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 11:14:41 -0400, , the mentally
challenged, notorious, troll-feeding retard, blabbered again:


Why are you bitching at me.

More important question: why are YOU his bitch? BG

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 10:22:39 -0600, lowbrowman, yet another endlessly
driveling senile idiot, blabbered again:

Most of our functional specification documents and the like are given to
the clients in pdf format precisely so they can't edit them to say what
they wished they would say.

Listen, you idiots! You ALL know how this "discussion" with the retard from
Scottland will end again! Here are a few examples of people who, unlike you,
were smart enough to quickly understand what this attention-starved cretin
is all about:

--
AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information."
MID:

--
Phil Lee adressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are too stupid to be wasting oxygen."
MID:

--
Tony944 addressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I seen and heard many people but you are on top of list being first class
ass hole jerk. ...You fit under unconditional Idiot and should be put in
mental institution.
MID:

--
Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
"Ok. I'm persuaded . You are an idiot."
MID:

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID:

--
Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"It's like arguing with a demented frog."
MID:

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 17:41:21 +0100, Beavis blabbered:

Except you CAN edit them, just not with the free PDF reader.

An altered PDF document will leave a virtual paper trail.

You two simply DO belong together! About time you hooked up again! LOL

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 17:51:55 +0100, Beavis blabbered:

Not if you print it.

And anyway, so would an altered Word Doc.

Advantages Of Using PDF Files
PDF Files Meet Legal Document Requirements
PDF Advantages - LegalScans

For an electronic document to be admissible in a court of law, it must
be created in a file format that cannot be altered without leaving an
electronic footprint. To satisfy this requirement, the imaging industry
has diverged in two different directions:

http://www.legalscans.com/whypdf.html

I always imagine the two of you sitting on a couch (like in the cartoon)
blabbering like the two drug-addled stoned idiots that you are! LOL

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 13:41:28 -0400, , the mentally
challenged, notorious, troll-feeding retard, blabbered again:

instruction, succeeded and crashed the system. Fortunately no real
damage was done.

Cocksucker, I believe a LOT of damage was done to your head!

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 12:22:21 -0600, lowbrowman, yet another endlessly
driveling senile idiot, blabbered again:


It wouldn't be caused by a privileged instruction but the possibility
existed for some interesting physical disasters:

https://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/e...rage_2401.html
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/1403.html

Hahahahahahahahahaaa!!! This senile idiot just CAN'T resist the Scottish
******'s cock!

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 18:56:16 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 18:41:28 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 17:47:07 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018 17:31:19 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 10:19:51 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/09/2018 04:57 AM, wrote:
No pocket protector but everyone had a green card.
"Octal"? IBM didn't use octal on anything I ever saw. It was BCD or
Hex.

It's been a long time but I remembered 360 opcodes using 3 bit
designations for the registers and operations.

Nobody referred to them as being octal. The various fields were of
different lengths. Typically you were actually filling them bit by
bit. If you were writing LOICS they were largely invisible to you
anyway, you were guided by the assembler but if you wrote PIOCS you
were actually writing the CCWs and had far more control. If you knew
how STIXIT worked, you could even write your own PSW and insert it,
allowing you to change the problem state bit and other scary things.
I wrote the only program I ever saw that actually used that big red
"interrupt" button on a 360 console.
I was the most dangerous kind of programmer. I came at that stuff from
the hardware side. ;-)
"Supervisor and I/O macros" was my favorite book.

You are specifically told not to touch the buttons:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Sy...rofile.agr.jpg

Nobody ever told me that. In fact I spent a lot of time in various
schools finding out what they all did. I agree typical users had no
use for most of them and when the machine was running, most had no
effect anyway. Lots of people, even a lot of programmers, were
surprised when I made the interrupt button do something.
They would have even been scared if they knew what I was doing with
it.

You'd think a big red interrupt button would stop it at all costs.

That is what you might think when you see it but it really just
initiates an interrupt that is not actually honored by the software.

After showing the STIXIT trick to a few students at the college, one
did take the machine away from them using a program running in
background. He left the machine in "system state" and assumed it would
switch back. Nope. The next student who tried to execute a privileged
instruction, succeeded and crashed the system. Fortunately no real
damage was done.

Damage?! You mean like timing belt snapping damage?

I mean like wiping out a system file or something. These days they
would be in there transferring school money to an offshore account or
changing everyone's grades. Once you put the machine in system state,
there are no protected files or protected memory locations, including
those in other partitions. You can step out of the walled garden you
are running in and go nuts.

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 12:22:21 -0600, rbowman wrote:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/1403.html

That wasn't even our fastest impact line printer. The 3211 was about
twice as fast.
BTW they talked about stopping a runaway paper feed but they did not
say the obvious answer. Open the paper door and step on the paper.
That works even if it is a hydraulic runaway from a broken spool
valve.
BTW he must have been the last guy on the planet who knew you always
punch at least one hole in every channel. There was always a diagonal
stripe of holes in every tape.
Turning the machine off is more easily said than done BTW, the switch
is inside the back cover and most people did not even know it was
there.
The 1403 that ran more than 600-800LPM (M3 or N1) used a "train" not a
"chain". It was individual slugs riding around on a track with no
steel band connecting them together like the older "chain". Each slug
had gear teeth on it and pushed the train along. Obviously adjusting
the lash was pretty important.
They are right about the noise. Most guys I know who worked on line
printers or check sorters are deaf. A large computer room with no I/O
in it at all cruises around 85dB just from fans and HVAC.
Printers with the covers open are more like 130-135dB and a 3980 check
sorter, cover open, right next to the separator drum is 145+. (way up
in the gun shot range)
When I brought this up, IBM told me to take my sound pressure meter
home and never bring it back.