Manufacturer's seem to recommend that electrical connections with wire nuts
be wrapped with electrical tape to complete the job. But I have seen this
done in only a small handful of cases. What do y'all recommend?

"bob smif" wrote in message
...
Manufacturer's seem to recommend that electrical
connections with wire nuts
be wrapped with electrical tape to complete the job. But I
have seen this
done in only a small handful of cases. What do y'all
recommend?


Contractors don't seem to do it because of the added
time/labor and it's not a code requirement anywhere that I'm
aware of. The inspector that came out to check some changes
I did for our foster kids rooms noted that I'd taped the
wirenuts and said most people didn't bother, but he thought
it was a good idea.
He also agreed with me that when you wrap the nuts, you
wrap in the direction that would cause the tape (after being
stretched during application) to tighten, not loosen the
wirenut after you're done. He said he also tells people NOT
to wirewrap just because of the stretched tape situation -
wound the wrong way, it can twist the nut in the direction
that loosens it instead of tightening it. But since I'd
done it right consistanly, he even gave me an ataboy on one
of the little yellow thingies they leave behind. Made me
feel good if nothing else.

Pop

Manufacturer's seem to recommend that electrical connections with wire nuts
be wrapped with electrical tape

Where did you see that?

If the connection is proper, it doesn't need tape. If it is not proper,
tape will not help.

I tape stuff exposed to the weather, thinking maybe it will help keep it
dry; but even that is probably pointless.

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Manufacturer's seem to recommend that electrical connections with wire
nuts
be wrapped with electrical tape

Where did you see that?

I have not taped a splice in 25 years, even then it was 15 kv and an
emergency. Taping splices when out when electricians quit soldering every
splice.
I have seen people wrap tape around the device before placing it back into a
metal box.

bob smif wrote:

Manufacturer's seem to recommend that electrical connections
with wire nuts be wrapped with electrical tape to complete the
job. But I have seen this done in only a small handful of cases.
What do y'all recommend?

Not required, not fun for the next guy working on them, and
as somebody already mentioned you could conceivably do it ass
backwards and do more harm than good.

Bottom line is that if your wire nut is solid mechanically,
the tape is not serving any purpose (again, as others have
mentioned).

Baisez-les s'ils ne peuvent pas prendre une plaisanterie
--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Pendergast e-mail is for sissies, say it on line

bob smif wrote:
Manufacturer's seem to recommend that electrical connections with wire nuts
be wrapped with electrical tape to complete the job. But I have seen this
done in only a small handful of cases. What do y'all recommend?

The boxes of wire nuts I have around don't recommend this.

A properly installed wire nut does not need tape.

Electrical tape has no place in a residential electrical system.

Jeff Dantzler

"bob smif" wrote in message
...

Manufacturer's seem to recommend that electrical connections with wire
nuts
be wrapped with electrical tape to complete the job. But I have seen this
done in only a small handful of cases. What do y'all recommend?

Taped wire nuts are usually a sign that the person making the joint didn't
have the skill to do it properly.....if you find one, take the tape off and
you will usually see some bare wires that didn't get covered by the wirenut,
so the guy taped it.
However, taping wire nuts in outdoor locations will make a difference over
the years. Untaped ones will corrode much quicker than if taped.

I'm with you. I try to always tape my wire nuts -- and crank the tape in the
tighten direction like the other fine worker mentioned.

Just like winding teflon tape on pipe threads, also in the tighten
direction.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"bob smif" wrote in message
...
Manufacturer's seem to recommend that electrical connections with wire nuts
be wrapped with electrical tape to complete the job. But I have seen this
done in only a small handful of cases. What do y'all recommend?

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I'm with you. I try to always tape my wire nuts

Interpetation:

Because I don't know rather the connection is right, I use tape to cover up
the screw up I just made.

and crank the tape in the
tighten direction like the other fine worker mentioned.

Just like winding teflon tape on pipe threads, also in the tighten
direction.

--

Christopher A. Young
I need to Learn more about HVAC

snipped the tag

~kjpro~

"bob smif" wrote in message
...
Manufacturer's seem to recommend that electrical connections with wire
nuts
be wrapped with electrical tape to complete the job. But I have seen this
done in only a small handful of cases. What do y'all recommend?

"bob smif" wrote in message
...
Manufacturer's seem to recommend that electrical connections with wire
nuts
be wrapped with electrical tape to complete the job. But I have seen this
done in only a small handful of cases. What do y'all recommend?

Thanks guys for all your comments. Some good reasoning for both methods. I
guess the best is to follow the manufacturer's instructions. None of the
packages at Lowe's instruct to wrap in tape although I did see that on at
least one manufacturer's website.

Here's another question on making these connections. I have read that there
should be a good mechanical connection of the wires first, then twist the
wire nut onto the wires. ie: twist the wires together, then twist the wire
nut on. Those packages at Lowe's had instructions just to insert the
untwisted wires straight into the wire nut, then twist the wire nut. In
fact, this manufacturer's site says to do so
http://www.nelcoproducts.com/wire_nuts_d.html. So is it necessary to twist
the wires first? Maybe this defeats the design of the wire nut? I had an
awful time the other night connecting some light gage stranded fixture wires
to much heavier solid hard copper wires for a pendant light fixture; it was
virtually impossible to twist those together and get a good mechanical joint
before using the wire nuts.

"Greg" wrote in message
...
http://www.nelcoproducts.com/wire_nuts_d.html.

"Wire nuts are a quick and easy way to make a secure wire connection
without
saudering or the use of any additional tools. Simply strip away an inch
and
half of the wires insulation. Then holding the bare ends of the wire
parrallel
and insert them into the threaded hole of the wire nut. The wire nut is
then
twisted to ensure a low resistance connection every time. Finally rap the
wire
nut and connected wires in electrical tape to finish the connection.

Wire nuts should only be used for making connections between wires of the
same
color."

This is not a manufacturer and their advise is as good as their spelling.

Thanks. I also abhored their spelling, and just realized that they aren't a
manufacturer. Still, I seem to remember the packages of Gardner-Bender wire
connectors at Lowe's saying the same thing about inserting the untwisted
wires into the wire nut. I'll have to double-check the package, the
Gardner-Bender website is a little light on providing much technical
information.

How about "push on" type connectors? Are they any good?

(yeah, I'm just a homemoaner but I'm also smart and educated and eager to do
things the "right" way)

bob smif wrote:
Manufacturer's seem to recommend that electrical connections with wire nuts
be wrapped with electrical tape to complete the job. But I have seen this
done in only a small handful of cases. What do y'all recommend?

One of my oldest friends has been a union electrician for over 30 years.
He tapes every single wire nut connection he makes, and he would beat me
if I didn't.

--
DAMN tax cuts! They're letting money trickle down to people who spend it!
WASHINGTON, July 13 (Reuters) - The U.S. government posted a larger-than-
expected budget surplus in June, propped up by higher quarterly business tax
receipts, a government report released on Tuesday showed.

bob smif wrote:
Here's another question on making these connections. I have read that there
should be a good mechanical connection of the wires first, then twist the
wire nut onto the wires. ie: twist the wires together, then twist the wire
nut on. Those packages at Lowe's had instructions just to insert the
untwisted wires straight into the wire nut, then twist the wire nut. In
fact, this manufacturer's site says to do so
http://www.nelcoproducts.com/wire_nuts_d.html. So is it necessary to twist
the wires first?

Is it *necessary*? Probably not, if every other thing you do while making
that connection goes perfectly. Is it *smart*? Yes.

--
DAMN tax cuts! They're letting money trickle down to people who spend it!
WASHINGTON, July 13 (Reuters) - The U.S. government posted a larger-than-
expected budget surplus in June, propped up by higher quarterly business tax
receipts, a government report released on Tuesday showed.

hey Bob,

check this out, all you want to know:

http://www.3m.com/market/electrical/...ector_01.jhtml

Nelco makes shrink tubing and wire ties if you look at their company info. They
even refer to "Ideal" wirenuts.
I thought the "strip away an inch and a half of insulation" was interesting and
the "wires of the same color" remark was just baffling.

Ideal is the company that owns the name "wire nut" and they say you don't have
to twist the wires but when using stranded wire and solid it may be "helpful"
to "lead" the stranded wire around the solid to get it started. The
instructions say nothing about tape.
I wrap the stranded around the solid, allowing it to extend about 1/16-1/8"
past the end of the solid, then screw on the nut. That makes a very solid
connection.

I have never used the push ins but some people like them. Only time will tell.
I can remember when the push in wiring devices were supposed to be wonderful.
Now they are universally despised because of the failure rates.

In article ,
clifto wrote:
...snipped...
One of my oldest friends has been a union electrician for over 30 years.
He tapes every single wire nut connection he makes, and he would beat me
if I didn't.

--
...snipped...

Gosh, you'd think that in 30 years he would have learned how to make
them work without the tape...

--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Nelco makes shrink tubing and wire ties if you look at their company info.
They
even refer to "Ideal" wirenuts.
I thought the "strip away an inch and a half of insulation" was
interesting and
the "wires of the same color" remark was just baffling.

Ideal is the company that owns the name "wire nut" and they say you don't
have
to twist the wires but when using stranded wire and solid it may be
"helpful"
to "lead" the stranded wire around the solid to get it started. The
instructions say nothing about tape.
I wrap the stranded around the solid, allowing it to extend about
1/16-1/8"
past the end of the solid, then screw on the nut. That makes a very solid
connection.

I have never used the push ins but some people like them. Only time will
tell.
I can remember when the push in wiring devices were supposed to be
wonderful.
Now they are universally despised because of the failure rates.

Thanks for your comments. Nelco's instruction about stripping an inch and a
half of insulation sounded pretty extreme! I too don't like the push in
wiring terminals on switches, etc, but I thought the push-in (I guess they
are really the crimp type) connectors might be preferable to the twisties.

"Lawrence Wasserman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
clifto wrote:
...snipped...
One of my oldest friends has been a union electrician for over 30 years.
He tapes every single wire nut connection he makes, and he would beat me
if I didn't.

--
...snipped...

Gosh, you'd think that in 30 years he would have learned how to make
them work without the tape...

ya i agree. the whole country runs on wire nuts without tape. if they
failed regularly we would be using something else. the wire nut provides a
good electrical connection. the tape provides peace of mind.

there is a simple test. after you put the wire nut on, try and pull it off.
give it a good solid pull. if it comes off, it wasnt on good enough. if it
stays on, its fine.

randy

Lawrence Wasserman wrote:
clifto wrote:
...snipped...
One of my oldest friends has been a union electrician for over 30 years.
He tapes every single wire nut connection he makes, and he would beat me
if I didn't.

Gosh, you'd think that in 30 years he would have learned how to make
them work without the tape...

He's never had one fail. That's because he uses insurance... tape.

Also makes up for that occasional over-stripped wire one might miss.

--
DAMN tax cuts! They're letting money trickle down to people who spend it!
WASHINGTON, July 13 (Reuters) - The U.S. government posted a larger-than-
expected budget surplus in June, propped up by higher quarterly business tax
receipts, a government report released on Tuesday showed.

there is a simple test. after you put the wire nut on, try and pull it
off.
give it a good solid pull. if it comes off, it wasnt on good enough. if
it
stays on, its fine.

I was taught to hold the wire nut and try to pull out each wire individually
to see if it is loose. I caught myself with a loose one just yesterday.

John

"John Leeke"
JohnLeeke*remove*this*spam*blocker*@HistoricHomeW orks.
com wrote in
message
there is a simple test. after you put the wire nut
on, try and
pull it off. give it a good solid pull. if it
comes off, it wasnt
on good enough. if it stays on, its fine.

I was taught to hold the wire nut and try to pull
out each wire
individually to see if it is loose. I caught myself
with a loose one
just yesterday.

John

THAT is the right advice! It's also a good idea to pay
attention that the wire won't move around at all, let
alone not pull out. A singly wire in the center of a
twist may not pull out, but can easily be felt to be
loose if it didn't twist, or if there is no pressure on
it.

Pop

PopRivet wrote:
"John Leeke"
JohnLeeke*remove*this*spam*blocker*@HistoricHomeW orks.
com wrote in message

there is a simple test. after you put the wire nut on, try and
pull it off. give it a good solid pull. if it comes off, it wasnt
on good enough. if it stays on, its fine.

I was taught to hold the wire nut and try to pull out each wire
individually to see if it is loose. I caught myself with a loose
one just yesterday.

John

THAT is the right advice! It's also a good idea to pay
attention that the wire won't move around at all, let
alone not pull out. A singly wire in the center of a
twist may not pull out, but can easily be felt to be
loose if it didn't twist, or if there is no pressure on
it.

Pop

All of this is interesting to me. It makes one wonder just how good
wire nuts are. YES, I use them. But where old boxes, or small boxes
are in place, I still prefer to solder and tape. Soldered connections
take up less room, and still can come apart nicely when necessary.
I have had occasion to take some of my 30-year old soldered
connections apart, and they are just like new. I have also had
occasion to take some wire nut connections apart, and sometimes they
can be quite hard to remove.
Again, just my opinion. I don't do wiring for pay, --Phil

--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

All of this is interesting to me. It makes one wonder just how good
wire nuts are. YES, I use them. But where old boxes, or small boxes
are in place, I still prefer to solder and tape. Soldered connections
take up less room, and still can come apart nicely when necessary.
I have had occasion to take some of my 30-year old soldered
connections apart, and they are just like new. I have also had
occasion to take some wire nut connections apart, and sometimes they
can be quite hard to remove.
Again, just my opinion. I don't do wiring for pay, --Phil

--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

I used to joke that I had to promise the university I wouldn't even touch an
electrical extension cord before they'd let me graduate as a structural
engineer (BS and MS; and PE). Now I kinda regret that joke. Now I own an
older home that I want to modernize with 200+ amp service, recessed dimmable
lighting, and all the fancy stuff that I see in the new homes that cost less
than mine did but are 15 miles outside of town (Houston) I find this
residential electrical wiring and planning very fascinating. It's more
interesting than my job of designing pressure vessels to the ASME Code.
Wonder if it's too late to change jobs?

"Bob Smif" wrote in message
...

All of this is interesting to me. It makes one
wonder just how good
wire nuts are. YES, I use them. But where old boxes,
or small boxes
are in place, I still prefer to solder and tape.
Soldered connections
take up less room, and still can come apart nicely when
necessary.
I have had occasion to take some of my 30-year old
soldered
connections apart, and they are just like new. I have
also had
occasion to take some wire nut connections apart, and
sometimes they
can be quite hard to remove.
Again, just my opinion. I don't do wiring for
pay, --Phil

--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical &
Computer Engin
Youngstown
State University

Youngstown, Ohio 44555

I used to joke that I had to promise the university I
wouldn't even touch an
electrical extension cord before they'd let me graduate as
a structural
engineer (BS and MS; and PE). Now I kinda regret that
joke. Now I own an
older home that I want to modernize with 200+ amp service,
recessed dimmable
lighting, and all the fancy stuff that I see in the new
homes that cost less
than mine did but are 15 miles outside of town (Houston) I
find this
residential electrical wiring and planning very
fascinating. It's more
interesting than my job of designing pressure vessels to
the ASME Code.
Wonder if it's too late to change jobs?



LOL, I'd keep your day job, but hey,for extra money ... g

Wire nuts, properly used, are actually pretty reliable in
the overall, or there would be a world of code and insurance
rehashing going on. It's when an inexperienced person gets
hold of them and figures it's just "twisting is all" or
someone gets very lazy, tired, or cheap. A correctly
fashioned connection will hold together AND not come apart
on its own, even if the wire nut falls off! The wire nut is
really only intended to insure the integrity of the
connection against movement, age, and expansion/contraction
of the materials over time. In essence, they "guarantee"
that the wires wil always be tightly held against each
other.

I remember one guy who INSISTED that he'd been taught the
right way to apply a wire nut was to NOT twist one wire, but
to twist the other wire/s around one wire. Then you twisted
them counterclockwise, so that when the nut went on, it
tried to untwist the wires, forcing the nut to bite into the
wiring all that much harder.
He was dead serious, and after awhile, I came to believe
that he had indeed been taught SOMETHING similar to that,
but whatever it was, I never figured out!

As for soldering, I did that in our home in Chgo. I lucked
out and got to hit the dumpsters at a furniture factory that
was being torn down. It wasn't until after I got home I
discovered it was ALL stranded wire!! I ended up using it,
and redid my whole house with it . I soldered as much as
possible, then used wirenuts and taped. For fixtures, I
just twisted the strands, tinned them, and shaped and
applied them to the screws. It was actually a lot easier
than working with solid wire, expecially the soldering
experience.
I have to disagree with easy to get apart though. I
always had to fight that danged tape when I had to go back a
few years later to do some upgrading and tapped into some of
those lines. YUK! I can imagine what it would have been
like to get that tape off the splices themselves!
O yueah, inspection went off without a hitch, too.

Pop

Pop Rivet wrote:
...
As for soldering, I did that in our home in Chgo. ...
I have to disagree with easy to get apart though. I
always had to fight that danged tape when I had to go back a
few years later to do some upgrading and tapped into some of
those lines. YUK! I can imagine what it would have been
like to get that tape off the splices themselves!
O yueah, inspection went off without a hitch, too.

Pop

You are right about the tape. On the other hand, with the good tape
being used these days, IF you can find the beginning of the the end of
it, getting it off is not be too tough, even with a good/proper wrap.
My point was really that untwisting a soldered splice is surprisingly
easy even though the soldered connection is a very good one. Of course,
I don't undo joints often, but there have been times.
Also, undoing soldered STRANDED wire is not what I'm talking about.
Rather, I'm talking about solid #14 through #10. For fixtures where
the pigtail is stranded, I use wire nuts these days; and box room
allows this in those cases.
By the way, I should probably take out my sig below. My work and
formal educational situation has almost nothing to do with electrician
work, and I do not claim to be anything but self taught when it comes
to wiring.
On the other hand, electrical engineering and the knowledge it brings
certainly DOES bring ideas to help understand many code requirements.
For example, number of wires in a box concerns heating and mechanical
considerations (probably). --Phil
--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

"Phil Munro" wrote in message
...
Pop Rivet wrote:
...
As for soldering, I did that in our home in Chgo. ...
I have to disagree with easy to get apart though. I
always had to fight that danged tape when I had to go
back a
few years later to do some upgrading and tapped into
some of
those lines. YUK! I can imagine what it would have
been
like to get that tape off the splices themselves!
O yueah, inspection went off without a hitch, too.

Pop

You are right about the tape. On the other hand, with
the good tape
being used these days, IF you can find the beginning of
the the end of
it, getting it off is not be too tough, even with a
good/proper wrap.
My point was really that untwisting a soldered splice is
surprisingly
easy even though the soldered connection is a very good
one. Of course,
I don't undo joints often, but there have been times.
Also, undoing soldered STRANDED wire is not what I'm
talking about.
Rather, I'm talking about solid #14 through #10. For
fixtures where
the pigtail is stranded, I use wire nuts these days; and
box room
allows this in those cases.
By the way, I should probably take out my sig below.
My work and
formal educational situation has almost nothing to do with
electrician
work, and I do not claim to be anything but self taught
when it comes
to wiring.
On the other hand, electrical engineering and the
knowledge it brings
certainly DOES bring ideas to help understand many code
requirements.
For example, number of wires in a box concerns heating and
mechanical
considerations (probably). --Phil
--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical &
Computer Engin
Youngstown
State University
Youngstown,
Ohio 44555


Yeah, didn't mean to sound like I wanted to step on toes;
the "story" et al was just sort of swapping old sea stories.
I did understand, and agree, that soldered solid wire's not
bad to work with. Sort of an aside, now I'm disabled and
can 't do that stuff anymore, NOW I've learned to fold a
small tab on the end of the tape in case I have to get it
off at anytime in the future! Ain't it wonderful how great
hindsight is?

Cheers,

Pop

PS - you sig: Don't see a real problem - it's about a
department you're in, not YOU, so ... Format could be
cleaned up a little though. I ass-u-me you're staff?
It IS however, unadvisable to have your email address in
the clear like that. You would be better off, unless you're
already buried in spam, to change it to somethning like
PcMunro AT cc DOT yse DOT edu.
Still easy to read, and most spiders won't key in on it.
Mailto links are very specifically bad ideas on ANY
newsgroup!

These newsgroups are crawled by many nasty spiders that just
love to strip out email addresses to sell in spam lists.
You should also develop a nicname to go by and not use your
real name. Based on the info you've put in your post, I
would likely be able to tell you your address, who you live
with, your phone number, what banks you use, and with a
little luck b ecause it's Ohio, even your social security
number, within 24 hours. Easy pickings for identity theft.
A certain amount of paranois is healthy.

Based on the info you've put in your post, I
would likely be able to tell you your address, who you live
with, your phone number, what banks you use, and with a
little luck b ecause it's Ohio, even your social security
number, within 24 hours.

Couldn't I do the same thing with a Cleveland phone book?

Phil Munro wrote:

All of this is interesting to me. It makes one wonder just how good
wire nuts are. YES, I use them. But where old boxes, or small boxes
are in place, I still prefer to solder and tape. Soldered connections
take up less room, and still can come apart nicely when necessary.
I have had occasion to take some of my 30-year old soldered
connections apart, and they are just like new. I have also had
occasion to take some wire nut connections apart, and sometimes they
can be quite hard to remove.
Again, just my opinion. I don't do wiring for pay, --Phil


Phill
Do not use solder on Equipment Grounding Conductor splices. It can fail
and spatter under fault conditions.
--
Tom H

Do not use solder on Equipment Grounding Conductor splices. It can fail
and spatter under fault conditions.

You mean ground electrode conductors don"t you? EGCs will be protected by the
same overcurrent device as the ubngrounded conductor.

WHAT? Please enlighten me, what exactly do you mean? A well wrapped
and properly soldered connection? If the breaker doesn't go, any wire
or connection would seem to me to become a problem. --Phil

Takoma Park Volunteer Fire Department Postmaster wrote:
Phill
Do not use solder on Equipment Grounding Conductor splices. It can fail
and spatter under fault conditions.
--
Tom H

--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

(Greg) wrote in message ...
Do not use solder on Equipment Grounding Conductor splices. It can fail
and spatter under fault conditions.

You mean ground electrode conductors don"t you? EGCs will be protected by the
same overcurrent device as the ubngrounded conductor.

Nope, he means equipment grounding conductor, aka The Bare Wire, or
The Green Wire, or The Ground Wire. The overcurrent device takes
non-zero time to open, even under very high current (as in, a dead
short) and the ground path needs to carry that current for that period
of time. Soldered connections can melt and open or, perhaps worse,
become resistive arcs, maybe before the overcurrent device can trip.

I don't know if it's code (US and/or Canada) but of those DIY books
that even mention solder connections, most say to use crimps or
wirenuts on ground wires.

Chip C
Toronto

A properly made solder connection DOES NOT depend on the solder to make the
connection.
110.14(B) "... Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be
mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered ..."
I know this may be a lost art in these days of wave soldering and low current
devices but back in the olden days electricians made the connection up tight
enough to make do on it's own, then they soldered it. There should be
significant copper to copper connection and if the solder was all gone the
connection should still be solid.