My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

On 11 Aug 2017 16:30:38 GMT, KenK wrote:


My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

There are still things you can do. You can test across the switch. It
should show 120v open, 0v closed. If the box is grounded metal you can
check from the switch terminals to the box. On any installation in the
last decade or so the switch yoke is required to be grounded, even if
the box is plastic.

Stormin' Norman wrote in
:

On 11 Aug 2017 16:30:38 GMT, KenK wrote:


My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a
VOM and removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was
working, Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting
there were only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access
to the neutral I can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is
working, I rashly assume the neutrals are connected together on the
back of the switch. Is there any way I can check this switch without
removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to
turn off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip
breakers until the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my
sparse money?


Did you already check the light bulb and, breakers for one that might
be tripped?

All the other power in the bedroom is ok so I didn't check the breakers.
I did try replacing both bulbs - no help.

These days, I find that SPST light switches rarely go
bad. Did you remove the bulb and test the socket with your VOM?

Since there are two sockets and new bulbs worked in neither I didn't
check the socket voltage. Since the lighr fixture is over the bed it's
very difficult to make that meaurement.

You can acquire a very inexpensive non-contact voltage tester that
will safely let you determine if the hot leg is energized without
removing the switch. See:

https://www.amazon.com/Tacklife-Non-...V-1000V-Detect
or/dp/B01N99D3MS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1502469465&sr=8-3&keywords=elec
trical+tester


As a last resort, you can turn off the main breaker for the residence
then safely remove the switch for testing.

Then I can't see what I'm doing. No one to hold a flashlight.



--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

On 8/11/2017 11:30 AM, KenK wrote:
My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

Use a short piece of (insulated) wire to temporarily jumper across the
two connections on the switch . If the lights come on the switch is bad
or one of the connections is loose ... If not , you can pull the switch
and check connections behind it , drop the fixture and do the same .
Beyond that it's going to get complicated .

--

Snag

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:30:47 AM UTC-5, KenK wrote:
My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA
--



Get an extension cord, plug it into the nearest outlet and plug one of the leads from your meter into the neutral(wide blade slot) on the extension cord. You can then touch the other lead from your meter to the terminals on the switch to see if you're getting power. Improvise! ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Switched Monster

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.
Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn. One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 12:23:34 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

Use a short piece of (insulated) wire to temporarily jumper across the
two connections on the switch

That is what I would do but there is no way I recommend this to
someone with limited electrical experience.
If someone did try that, be sure to only expose the minimum amount of
conductor you need at the stripped ends (~1/8") and be sure the
insulation of the wire is at least 300v rated, 600v (regular building
wire) is better.

On 8/11/17 2:05 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:30:47 AM UTC-5, KenK wrote:
My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA
--



Get an extension cord, plug it into the nearest outlet and plug one of the leads from your meter into the neutral(wide blade slot) on the extension cord. You can then touch the other lead from your meter to the terminals on the switch to see if you're getting power. Improvise! ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Switched Monster


He better hope that outlet was wired correctly or he might light up like
a Christmas tree ;-)

--
I don't lie to myself, and I don't hold on to a loser.

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 1:04:53 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:

As a last resort, you can turn off the main breaker for the residence
then safely remove the switch for testing.

Then I can't see what I'm doing. No one to hold a flashlight.

My headlamp has saved me in similar situations many times. That purchase was one of the smarter things I've done. I have three now and they all get used.

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?

One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 7:15:19 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?


Or even that it's a metal box. They stopped using those for most residential wall outlets decades ago here.



One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:15:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?

One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch
No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter he doesn't
even NEED a ground Just touch the second lead of the meter with a
finger and you will get a reading (not neccesarily accurate) if there
is power. Amd you MIGHT feel a very tiny tickle - but not likely. The
current flowing through the voltmeter is virtually nil.

TimR wrote in
:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 1:04:53 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:

As a last resort, you can turn off the main breaker for the
residence then safely remove the switch for testing.

Then I can't see what I'm doing. No one to hold a flashlight.

My headlamp has saved me in similar situations many times. That
purchase was one of the smarter things I've done. I have three now
and they all get used.


Forgot I had one. Thank you!




--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

wrote in
news
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a
VOM and removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was
working, Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was
expecting there were only two, I assume the hot line in and out.
Without access to the neutral I can't use the voltmeter to see if
the switch is working, I rashly assume the neutrals are connected
together on the back of the switch. Is there any way I can check
this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to
turn off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip
breakers until the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my
sparse money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to
use the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a
normal house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the
switch. Cut the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb)
on the end of the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on
and no voltagw with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way,
then cut off the power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm
meter to check the switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more
simplething you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near
the switch. As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use
the neutral side of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the
neutral of the drop cord and one on the hot side of the switch to make
sure you have voltage. If so, go to the oter side of the switch with
that lead and turn the swithc off and on. If by chance you stick the
meter probe in the hot side of the drop cord, you will either get no
voltage or about 240 volts instead of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do
not usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the
house.
Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn. One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch

Tried new bulbs first thing.



--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

Stormin' Norman wrote in
:

would check the breakers, just-in-case. Doesn't cost a penny to do
it and it might solve your issue.



They feel solidly on.

Pretty much eliminated that possibility. Measured voltage across the two
connections on the switch. 120 A/C. In on and off positions. Seems to
mean that the switch is definitely bad. The voltage across the only two
terminals should drop to 0 when the switch is on. The switch should be a
short circuit then.

Now it's a matter of buying a new switch at Walmart today and getting
ambitious wnough to locate the correct power breaker and and brave enough
to replace the switch.

--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

On 12 Aug 2017 16:15:42 GMT, KenK wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote in
:

would check the breakers, just-in-case. Doesn't cost a penny to do
it and it might solve your issue.



They feel solidly on.

Pretty much eliminated that possibility. Measured voltage across the two
connections on the switch. 120 A/C. In on and off positions. Seems to
mean that the switch is definitely bad. The voltage across the only two
terminals should drop to 0 when the switch is on. The switch should be a
short circuit then.

Now it's a matter of buying a new switch at Walmart today and getting
ambitious wnough to locate the correct power breaker and and brave enough
to replace the switch.

Do you have a wire stripper? I like the flat ones with different slots
for different wire sizes. Note there is a hole in one of the jaws. You
use that to form the "U" to put under the terminal screw, Stick the
wire in and bend it around. Fast and works great. Go around the screw
the right way. (clockwise) with the end at 3 and the standing part of
the wire at 9 so tightening pulls the wire in.

wrote in
:

On 12 Aug 2017 16:15:42 GMT, KenK wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote in
m:

would check the breakers, just-in-case. Doesn't cost a penny to do
it and it might solve your issue.



They feel solidly on.

Pretty much eliminated that possibility. Measured voltage across the
two connections on the switch. 120 A/C. In on and off positions. Seems
to mean that the switch is definitely bad. The voltage across the only
two terminals should drop to 0 when the switch is on. The switch
should be a short circuit then.

Now it's a matter of buying a new switch at Walmart today and getting
ambitious wnough to locate the correct power breaker and and brave
enough to replace the switch.

Do you have a wire stripper? I like the flat ones with different slots
for different wire sizes. Note there is a hole in one of the jaws. You
use that to form the "U" to put under the terminal screw, Stick the
wire in and bend it around. Fast and works great. Go around the screw
the right way. (clockwise) with the end at 3 and the standing part of
the wire at 9 so tightening pulls the wire in.


I have two kinds. The one you describe and the much smaller one that just
strips wires. I have to admit I prefer the small one. I'll have to try
the one you describe again; obviously I'm overlooking some of its
features.



--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

On 12 Aug 2017 17:32:20 GMT, KenK wrote:

Do you have a wire stripper? I like the flat ones with different slots
for different wire sizes. Note there is a hole in one of the jaws. You
use that to form the "U" to put under the terminal screw, Stick the
wire in and bend it around. Fast and works great. Go around the screw
the right way. (clockwise) with the end at 3 and the standing part of
the wire at 9 so tightening pulls the wire in.


I have two kinds. The one you describe and the much smaller one that just
strips wires. I have to admit I prefer the small one. I'll have to try
the one you describe again; obviously I'm overlooking some of its
features.

Pic (features) https://i.stack.imgur.com/yiDE7.gif

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 8:53:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:15:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?

One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch
No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter he doesn't
even NEED a ground Just touch the second lead of the meter with a
finger and you will get a reading (not neccesarily accurate) if there
is power. Amd you MIGHT feel a very tiny tickle - but not likely. The
current flowing through the voltmeter is virtually nil.

That's funny. You know, you are allowed to simply apologize.

On 08/11/2017 07:53 PM, wrote:

[snip]

No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter

There are high impedance analog meters. I have used one in college.
[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Power corrupts; Absolute power corrupts absolutely; God is all-powerful.
Draw your own conclusions

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 13:03:47 -0400, wrote:

On 12 Aug 2017 16:15:42 GMT, KenK wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote in
m:

would check the breakers, just-in-case. Doesn't cost a penny to do
it and it might solve your issue.



They feel solidly on.

Pretty much eliminated that possibility. Measured voltage across the two
connections on the switch. 120 A/C. In on and off positions. Seems to
mean that the switch is definitely bad. The voltage across the only two
terminals should drop to 0 when the switch is on. The switch should be a
short circuit then.

Now it's a matter of buying a new switch at Walmart today and getting
ambitious wnough to locate the correct power breaker and and brave enough
to replace the switch.

Do you have a wire stripper? I like the flat ones with different slots
for different wire sizes. Note there is a hole in one of the jaws. You
use that to form the "U" to put under the terminal screw, Stick the
wire in and bend it around. Fast and works great. Go around the screw
the right way. (clockwise) with the end at 3 and the standing part of
the wire at 9 so tightening pulls the wire in.
Better nyet, buy a "spec grade"switch with back-clamp terminals. No
bending required. So simple a trained ape can do it properly, and you
are assured you are getting a reasonable quality switch, unlike the
"49 cent specials" from Home Despot. I believe the BORG actually does
carry the good stuff as well - - -.

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:54:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 8:53:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:15:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?

One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch
No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter he doesn't
even NEED a ground Just touch the second lead of the meter with a
finger and you will get a reading (not neccesarily accurate) if there
is power. Amd you MIGHT feel a very tiny tickle - but not likely. The
current flowing through the voltmeter is virtually nil.

That's funny. You know, you are allowed to simply apologize.
SO sorry. Being a good Canadian I guess I should appologize for
everything I say - - - -

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 2:41:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:54:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 8:53:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:15:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?

One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch
No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter he doesn't
even NEED a ground Just touch the second lead of the meter with a
finger and you will get a reading (not neccesarily accurate) if there
is power. Amd you MIGHT feel a very tiny tickle - but not likely. The
current flowing through the voltmeter is virtually nil.

That's funny. You know, you are allowed to simply apologize.
SO sorry. Being a good Canadian I guess I should appologize for
everything I say - - - -

I don't see why it has anything to do with your nationality. Being a good
*person* is the only reason someone should apologize if they make an inaccurate
statement.

A good *person* would simply apologize instead of deflecting the blame by
changing the subject.

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 2:48:21 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 2:41:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:54:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 8:53:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:15:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?

One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch
No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter he doesn't
even NEED a ground Just touch the second lead of the meter with a
finger and you will get a reading (not neccesarily accurate) if there
is power. Amd you MIGHT feel a very tiny tickle - but not likely. The
current flowing through the voltmeter is virtually nil.

That's funny. You know, you are allowed to simply apologize.
SO sorry. Being a good Canadian I guess I should appologize for
everything I say - - - -

I don't see why it has anything to do with your nationality. Being a good
*person* is the only reason someone should apologize if they make an inaccurate
statement.

A good *person* would simply apologize instead of deflecting the blame by
changing the subject.

I wouldn't even say an apology is needed. Just a simple acknowledgement of the point made would suffice. Better watch out, Clare will have you in his kill file soon.

posted for all of us...


That's funny. You know, you are allowed to simply apologize.
SO sorry. Being a good Canadian I guess I should appologize for
everything I say - - - -


Promptly and bow down to the X-spirts

--
Tekkie

posted for all of us...



On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 13:03:47 -0400, wrote:

On 12 Aug 2017 16:15:42 GMT, KenK wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote in
m:

would check the breakers, just-in-case. Doesn't cost a penny to do
it and it might solve your issue.



They feel solidly on.

Pretty much eliminated that possibility. Measured voltage across the two
connections on the switch. 120 A/C. In on and off positions. Seems to
mean that the switch is definitely bad. The voltage across the only two
terminals should drop to 0 when the switch is on. The switch should be a
short circuit then.

Now it's a matter of buying a new switch at Walmart today and getting
ambitious wnough to locate the correct power breaker and and brave enough
to replace the switch.

Do you have a wire stripper? I like the flat ones with different slots
for different wire sizes. Note there is a hole in one of the jaws. You
use that to form the "U" to put under the terminal screw, Stick the
wire in and bend it around. Fast and works great. Go around the screw
the right way. (clockwise) with the end at 3 and the standing part of
the wire at 9 so tightening pulls the wire in.
Better nyet, buy a "spec grade"switch with back-clamp terminals. No
bending required. So simple a trained ape can do it properly, and you
are assured you are getting a reasonable quality switch, unlike the
"49 cent specials" from Home Despot. I believe the BORG actually does
carry the good stuff as well - - -.

I was just going to post this... My minimum is spec grade. I guess one could
go to Wallys for a switch but...

--
Tekkie

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:54:35 -0700, Oren wrote:

On 12 Aug 2017 17:32:20 GMT, KenK wrote:

Do you have a wire stripper? I like the flat ones with different slots
for different wire sizes. Note there is a hole in one of the jaws. You
use that to form the "U" to put under the terminal screw, Stick the
wire in and bend it around. Fast and works great. Go around the screw
the right way. (clockwise) with the end at 3 and the standing part of
the wire at 9 so tightening pulls the wire in.


I have two kinds. The one you describe and the much smaller one that just
strips wires. I have to admit I prefer the small one. I'll have to try
the one you describe again; obviously I'm overlooking some of its
features.

Pic (features) https://i.stack.imgur.com/yiDE7.gif

I have a few of the smaller strippers too. They can be a trick to use
if you do not adjust that screw for each wire size but after a while
you do get a feel for how to nick the insulation enough to get it off
without hurting the conductor. The bigger one has the advantage of
being a lot of tools in one package.

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 13:32:01 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 08/11/2017 07:53 PM, wrote:

[snip]

No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter

There are high impedance analog meters. I have used one in college.
[snip]

A VTVM? Haven't seen one in 50 years.

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 2:54:55 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 2:48:21 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 2:41:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:54:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 8:53:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:15:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?

One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch
No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter he doesn't
even NEED a ground Just touch the second lead of the meter with a
finger and you will get a reading (not neccesarily accurate) if there
is power. Amd you MIGHT feel a very tiny tickle - but not likely. The
current flowing through the voltmeter is virtually nil.

That's funny. You know, you are allowed to simply apologize.
SO sorry. Being a good Canadian I guess I should appologize for
everything I say - - - -

I don't see why it has anything to do with your nationality. Being a good
*person* is the only reason someone should apologize if they make an inaccurate
statement.

A good *person* would simply apologize instead of deflecting the blame by
changing the subject.

I wouldn't even say an apology is needed. Just a simple acknowledgement of the point made would suffice. Better watch out, Clare will have you in his kill file soon.

One can only wish.

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 13:32:01 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 08/11/2017 07:53 PM, wrote:

[snip]

No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter

There are high impedance analog meters. I have used one in college.
[snip]

A VTVM? Haven't seen one in 50 years.

That, plus a field effect transistor analog meter. Read as a solid
state VTVM.

I have both that were bought around 40 years ago.

I did check out the VTVM a couple of months ago on a rainy day just to
see how accurate it was compaired to a Fluke meter and the Simpson 260.
Did not try out the transistor vom as it takes a 'special' battery,
about 8 volts if I remember correctly. Did not want to
put in the connector for a 'standard' 9 volt battery on somehting I
probably will not use.

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 13:32:01 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 08/11/2017 07:53 PM, wrote:

[snip]

No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter

There are high impedance analog meters. I have used one in college.
[snip]
Yes there are, but the average "handyman" today does not have a VTVM
or other high end analog device. Most wouldn't have a clue how to read
a multi-scale analog meter - let's face it even a digital multi-tester
would baffle a good many.
The vast majority will have access to a cheap (or even free from
"Harbor Fright" digital.

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 11:48:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 2:41:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:54:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 8:53:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:15:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?

One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch
No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter he doesn't
even NEED a ground Just touch the second lead of the meter with a
finger and you will get a reading (not neccesarily accurate) if there
is power. Amd you MIGHT feel a very tiny tickle - but not likely. The
current flowing through the voltmeter is virtually nil.

That's funny. You know, you are allowed to simply apologize.
SO sorry. Being a good Canadian I guess I should appologize for
everything I say - - - -

I don't see why it has anything to do with your nationality. Being a good
*person* is the only reason someone should apologize if they make an inaccurate
statement.

A good *person* would simply apologize instead of deflecting the blame by
changing the subject.



I made an innaccurate statement?
No I did not. I said "code required" rhe box to be grounded. It does,
and has for decades.
If the box is grounded the meter will work as I described.
For accuracy - I tested a cheap digital and a good high impedence
digital with no ground. The cheap digital did not read with a
"capacitive ground" while the good high impedence did.

I'll make another recomendation for troubleshooting for the "basic
handyman".

Get an "old school" neon "pocket tester".It WILL show when power is
present without a physical ground. So will a "non contact" voltage
sensor (if you get one that works - there is a lot of very chintzy
chinese junk on the market - test on a known live circuit first to
make sure you don't end up "chasing your tail"

So sorry if you don't understand what I'm saying or are offended in
any way.

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 15:51:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 13:32:01 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 08/11/2017 07:53 PM, wrote:

[snip]

No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter

There are high impedance analog meters. I have used one in college.
[snip]

A VTVM? Haven't seen one in 50 years.
Mine is sitting on a shelg as a decoration - or was for years - Gotta
go check to be sure - wouldn't want to post in-accurate information
on this list ---
Yup - the old Heathkit IM-11 is still there - whew! Don't have to
appologize for that one!!

On 08/12/2017 02:51 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 13:32:01 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 08/11/2017 07:53 PM, wrote:

[snip]

No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter

There are high impedance analog meters. I have used one in college.
[snip]

A VTVM? Haven't seen one in 50 years.


The one I used had FETs instead of vacuum tubes.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Miracles do not happen." [Matthew Arnold, Literature and Dogma, last
words of preface to 1883 edition]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 13:55:40 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

A VTVM? Haven't seen one in 50 years.


The one I used had FETs instead of vacuum tubes.

Wasn't a VTVM then was it?

=?iso-8859-15?Q?Tekkie=AE?= wrote in
:

posted for all of us...



On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 13:03:47 -0400, wrote:

On 12 Aug 2017 16:15:42 GMT, KenK wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote in
m:

would check the breakers, just-in-case. Doesn't cost a penny to
do
it and it might solve your issue.



They feel solidly on.

Pretty much eliminated that possibility. Measured voltage across
the two connections on the switch. 120 A/C. In on and off
positions. Seems to mean that the switch is definitely bad. The
voltage across the only two terminals should drop to 0 when the
switch is on. The switch should be a short circuit then.

Now it's a matter of buying a new switch at Walmart today and
getting ambitious wnough to locate the correct power breaker and
and brave enough to replace the switch.

Do you have a wire stripper? I like the flat ones with different
slots for different wire sizes. Note there is a hole in one of the
jaws. You use that to form the "U" to put under the terminal screw,
Stick the wire in and bend it around. Fast and works great. Go
around the screw the right way. (clockwise) with the end at 3 and
the standing part of the wire at 9 so tightening pulls the wire in.
Better nyet, buy a "spec grade"switch with back-clamp terminals. No
bending required. So simple a trained ape can do it properly, and you
are assured you are getting a reasonable quality switch, unlike the
"49 cent specials" from Home Despot. I believe the BORG actually does
carry the good stuff as well - - -.

I was just going to post this... My minimum is spec grade. I guess one
could go to Wallys for a switch but...

I picked up a Walmart $1.59 GE switch. Maybe I should reconsider and try
a good hardware store before I install anything.


--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

On 8/11/2017 6:30 AM, KenK wrote:

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

Stab connection or screw?
I've had stab connections fail with time. Simply use the screw.

John Keiser wrote in
:

On 8/11/2017 6:30 AM, KenK wrote:

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a
VOM and removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was
working, Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was
expecting there were only two, I assume the hot line in and out.
Without access to the neutral I can't use the voltmeter to see if the
switch is working, I rashly assume the neutrals are connected
together on the back of the switch. Is there any way I can check this
switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to
turn off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip
breakers until the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my
sparse money?

TIA

Stab connection or screw?

Screw

I've had stab connections fail with time. Simply use the screw.




--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.