My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.
Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn. One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?

One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 7:15:19 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?


Or even that it's a metal box. They stopped using those for most residential wall outlets decades ago here.



One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:15:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?

One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch
No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter he doesn't
even NEED a ground Just touch the second lead of the meter with a
finger and you will get a reading (not neccesarily accurate) if there
is power. Amd you MIGHT feel a very tiny tickle - but not likely. The
current flowing through the voltmeter is virtually nil.

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 8:53:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:15:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 2:31:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to use
the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a normal
house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the switch. Cut
the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb) on the end of
the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on and no voltagw
with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way, then cut off the
power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm meter to check the
switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more simplething
you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near the switch.
As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use the neutral side
of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the neutral of the drop cord
and one on the hot side of the switch to make sure you have voltage. If
so, go to the oter side of the switch with that lead and turn the swithc
off and on. If by chance you stick the meter probe in the hot side of
the drop cord, you will either get no voltage or about 240 volts instead
of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do not
usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the house.

Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn.


Just because code *requires* something doesn't mean that the something is
in fact present. Do you, with 100% certainty, know that the OP's box is
grounded?

One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch
No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter he doesn't
even NEED a ground Just touch the second lead of the meter with a
finger and you will get a reading (not neccesarily accurate) if there
is power. Amd you MIGHT feel a very tiny tickle - but not likely. The
current flowing through the voltmeter is virtually nil.

That's funny. You know, you are allowed to simply apologize.

On 08/11/2017 07:53 PM, wrote:

[snip]

No I don't - but with a high impedence (digital) voltmeter

There are high impedance analog meters. I have used one in college.
[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Power corrupts; Absolute power corrupts absolutely; God is all-powerful.
Draw your own conclusions

wrote in
news
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:01:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a
VOM and removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was
working, Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was
expecting there were only two, I assume the hot line in and out.
Without access to the neutral I can't use the voltmeter to see if
the switch is working, I rashly assume the neutrals are connected
together on the back of the switch. Is there any way I can check
this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to
turn off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip
breakers until the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my
sparse money?

TIA

I can see that you need lots of education on house wiring and how to
use the meter.

Set the meter to check voltage (I am going to assume you are in a
normal house in the US). Place the leads on the terminals of the
switch. Cut the switch off and on. If there is any load (lightbulb)
on the end of the wires you should get a voltage with the switch on
and no voltagw with the switch on. If no voltage shows up either way,
then cut off the power to the circuit if you can find it. Use the ohm
meter to check the switch.

If you can not find the power to the switch ther is one more
simplething you can do. Find a drop cord. Plug it in any outlet near
the switch. As all neutral wires go to the smae place, you can use
the neutral side of the dropcord. Stick one meter probe in the
neutral of the drop cord and one on the hot side of the switch to make
sure you have voltage. If so, go to the oter side of the switch with
that lead and turn the swithc off and on. If by chance you stick the
meter probe in the hot side of the drop cord, you will either get no
voltage or about 240 volts instead of the nominal 120 volts.


All normal house wiring for simple lights connect the neutral to to
light socket and only break the hot wire if done correctly. They do
not usually break the hot and neutral wires on most things in the
house.
Even simpler, since the safety ground and neutral are bonded, and all
boxes, by code, need to be grounded, just connect the voltmeter
between the grounded box and each terminal in turn. One must be live
at all times, the other will be live with the switch on, if the switch
is good.
That said, have you checked the light bulb??? (virtually)Infinitely
higher chance of the bulb spontaneously dying than the switch

Tried new bulbs first thing.



--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

On 11 Aug 2017 16:30:38 GMT, KenK wrote:


My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

There are still things you can do. You can test across the switch. It
should show 120v open, 0v closed. If the box is grounded metal you can
check from the switch terminals to the box. On any installation in the
last decade or so the switch yoke is required to be grounded, even if
the box is plastic.

On 8/11/2017 11:30 AM, KenK wrote:
My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

Use a short piece of (insulated) wire to temporarily jumper across the
two connections on the switch . If the lights come on the switch is bad
or one of the connections is loose ... If not , you can pull the switch
and check connections behind it , drop the fixture and do the same .
Beyond that it's going to get complicated .

--

Snag

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 12:23:34 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

Use a short piece of (insulated) wire to temporarily jumper across the
two connections on the switch

That is what I would do but there is no way I recommend this to
someone with limited electrical experience.
If someone did try that, be sure to only expose the minimum amount of
conductor you need at the stripped ends (~1/8") and be sure the
insulation of the wire is at least 300v rated, 600v (regular building
wire) is better.

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:30:47 AM UTC-5, KenK wrote:
My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA
--



Get an extension cord, plug it into the nearest outlet and plug one of the leads from your meter into the neutral(wide blade slot) on the extension cord. You can then touch the other lead from your meter to the terminals on the switch to see if you're getting power. Improvise! ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Switched Monster

On 8/11/17 2:05 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:30:47 AM UTC-5, KenK wrote:
My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA
--



Get an extension cord, plug it into the nearest outlet and plug one of the leads from your meter into the neutral(wide blade slot) on the extension cord. You can then touch the other lead from your meter to the terminals on the switch to see if you're getting power. Improvise! ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Switched Monster


He better hope that outlet was wired correctly or he might light up like
a Christmas tree ;-)

--
I don't lie to myself, and I don't hold on to a loser.

On 8/11/2017 6:30 AM, KenK wrote:

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a VOM and
removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was working,
Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was expecting there were
only two, I assume the hot line in and out. Without access to the neutral I
can't use the voltmeter to see if the switch is working, I rashly assume
the neutrals are connected together on the back of the switch. Is there any
way I can check this switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to turn
off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip breakers until
the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my sparse
money?

TIA

Stab connection or screw?
I've had stab connections fail with time. Simply use the screw.

John Keiser wrote in
:

On 8/11/2017 6:30 AM, KenK wrote:

My ceiling light in my bedroom conked out this morning, I grabbed a
VOM and removed the cover from the wall switch to see if it was
working, Unfortunately instead of the four connections I was
expecting there were only two, I assume the hot line in and out.
Without access to the neutral I can't use the voltmeter to see if the
switch is working, I rashly assume the neutrals are connected
together on the back of the switch. Is there any way I can check this
switch without removing it?

If I decide to remove it how can I find the correct power breaker to
turn off since the light it feeds doesn't work. I can't just flip
breakers until the light goes off.

Suggestions - besides call an electrictian and spend a bunch of my
sparse money?

TIA

Stab connection or screw?

Screw

I've had stab connections fail with time. Simply use the screw.




--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.