I just bought a Werner MT-17 Multiladder at Costco - it appears to be
exactly the same as the Little Giant Model 17 ladder, which I've seen
on TV. The price for this Werner MT-17 is $219 all over the internet,
but Costco for some reason is selling them today (first time I've seen
them there) for $99... That's the tool bargain of the year, near as I
can tell. I've been outside in the yard playing on this ladder,
setting it up in all the different positions as on the TV infomercial
for the Little Giant, and I am loving it already. I'm going to sell my
two other regular extension ladders and pick up one more of these
Werner's - perhaps a taller MT-22 or MT-26 if I can find another good
deal on one!

One Caveat - the $99 Werner is made in China, and the equivalent
Little Giant model 17 is made in the USA (and is priced accordingly at
$275-$450)

- Cecil

CecilWilliams wrote:

I just bought a Werner MT-17 Multiladder at Costco - it appears to be
exactly the same as the Little Giant Model 17 ladder, which I've seen
on TV. The price for this Werner MT-17 is $219 all over the internet,
but Costco for some reason is selling them today (first time I've seen
them there) for $99... That's the tool bargain of the year, near as I
can tell. I've been outside in the yard playing on this ladder,
setting it up in all the different positions as on the TV infomercial
for the Little Giant, and I am loving it already. I'm going to sell my
two other regular extension ladders and pick up one more of these
Werner's - perhaps a taller MT-22 or MT-26 if I can find another good
deal on one!

One Caveat - the $99 Werner is made in China, and the equivalent
Little Giant model 17 is made in the USA (and is priced accordingly at
$275-$450)


My experience seeing "great deals" at places like CostCo and HomeDepot
is that you get a substandard part.

HomeDepot demands suppliers meet certian price points. So folks
like Milwaukee have an "HD" model that's got a 1 year (not lifetime)
warrantee and has that because the innards are plastic, not metal.
(friend replaced a (10 year old, perfect) stolen Sawsall with an HD one
and, 14 months later, with a real one after the cheap one broke down badly).

Dunno if your chinese made, werner branded ladder is made with solid
parts, has a 6 month warrantee, etc, but sometimes you get what you
pay for.

In article ,
says...
I just bought a Werner MT-17 Multiladder at Costco - it appears to be
exactly the same as the Little Giant Model 17 ladder, which I've seen
on TV. The price for this Werner MT-17 is $219 all over the internet,
but Costco for some reason is selling them today (first time I've seen
them there) for $99...

[snip]

One Caveat - the $99 Werner is made in China, and the equivalent
Little Giant model 17 is made in the USA (and is priced accordingly at
$275-$450)

"Costco for some reason is selling them for $99"... Do you suppose that
"Made in China" might be the reason?

And do you *really* imagine that a $99 made-in-Communist-China ladder is
truly equivalent to a made-in-USA ladder priced at three to four times
that? You can't seriously believe that the quality is the same, can you?

"CecilWilliams" wrote in message
m...
I just bought a Werner MT-17 Multiladder at Costco - it appears to be
exactly the same as the Little Giant Model 17 ladder, which I've seen
on TV. The price for this Werner MT-17 is $219 all over the internet,
but Costco for some reason is selling them today (first time I've seen
them there) for $99... That's the tool bargain of the year, near as I
can tell. I've been outside in the yard playing on this ladder,
setting it up in all the different positions as on the TV infomercial
for the Little Giant, and I am loving it already. I'm going to sell my
two other regular extension ladders and pick up one more of these
Werner's - perhaps a taller MT-22 or MT-26 if I can find another good
deal on one!

One Caveat - the $99 Werner is made in China, and the equivalent
Little Giant model 17 is made in the USA (and is priced accordingly at
$275-$450)

- Cecil

Made in China? Buy all you want..hell, buy 10....
I have Davidsons, and Werners..all made here in the States, and I sure as
hell wont trust a made in China ladder when I am 45 feet up..
Cost isnt an object when your noggin is on the line...if your stupid enough
to buy something that sounds so obviously cheap, and I dont mean in monetary
value cheap, that you will be on, that might just fold up on you...then
perhaps you need to buy quite a few and use them often.

Yea BS. your affiliated with the ladder What Troll BS

"Bonehenge" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 20:03:34 -0400, "CBHVAC" same @as.it.was.com
wrote:

I have Davidsons, and Werners..all made here in the States, and I sure as
hell wont trust a made in China ladder when I am 45 feet up..

You have an extension ladder capable of getting you 45 feet up?


Never seen one? Any of your larger supply stores will have one, or Werner
can supply you with one..
D1540 series..
its 40 feet, but figure I am 6'2.....and you DONT want to be on that top
rung...


Barry

There are products made outside of the USA that are better. Don't assume
everything made in USA is good!

In article , "SaM" wrote:
There are products made outside of the USA that are better. Don't assume
everything made in USA is good!

I have yet to see anything manufactured in Communist China that's better than
the corresponding item manufactured in the United States.

"SaM" wrote in message
...
There are products made outside of the USA that are better. Don't assume
everything made in USA is good!



There were NO assumptions made.
I have YET, and thats a few years, to see ANYTHING that is a tool that is
made in China that is better than made here.
Come to think of it..I have yet to see anything made in China that is better
than here.

"CecilWilliams" wrote in message
m...
I just bought a Werner MT-17 Multiladder at Costco - it appears to be
exactly the same as the Little Giant Model 17 ladder, which I've seen
on TV. The price for this Werner MT-17 is $219 all over the internet,
but Costco for some reason is selling them today (first time I've seen
them there) for $99...

Wow. Maybe Little Giant had some sort of patent that is over, and now there
will be copies. That's a great deal. I love my Little Giant.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...

And do you *really* imagine that a $99 made-in-Communist-China ladder is
truly equivalent to a made-in-USA ladder priced at three to four times
that? You can't seriously believe that the quality is the same, can you?

Sure, it's possible. Like I said, sometimes there are patents that run out,
driving the price down. For example, I have a wine cork remover that's
really great, but it's exorbitantly priced - over $100 (Leverpull). About a
year or 2 ago they started selling knockoffs at around $30. They're just as
good as far as I've seen.

I know a fellow who is the litigator for one of the major US ladder
manufacturers. He handles their product liability cases. Based on what
I have listened to I suspect that half of the price of a US made ladder
is for attorneys. Maybe the Chinese haven't had the "pleasure" yet.

RB

jeffc wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...

And do you *really* imagine that a $99 made-in-Communist-China ladder is
truly equivalent to a made-in-USA ladder priced at three to four times
that? You can't seriously believe that the quality is the same, can you?


Sure, it's possible. Like I said, sometimes there are patents that run out,
driving the price down. For example, I have a wine cork remover that's
really great, but it's exorbitantly priced - over $100 (Leverpull). About a
year or 2 ago they started selling knockoffs at around $30. They're just as
good as far as I've seen.

"SaM" wrote in message
...
There are products made outside of the USA that are better. Don't assume
everything made in USA is good!



Man, where did you come from? Even the Japanese car manufacturers have
discovered that products made in the USA are better.

Tools are an even more important issue, and the Pros know tools. Dewalt,
Klien, and others are US made and quality that you can stake your life on.

As CB said, do you really want to be 40 feet in the air (or even 15 feet) on
some cheapo piece of crap that might shear a rivet or bolt? Your pro is
gonna have the good stuff, and if you want to DIY, you better too.
Otherwise, you'll end up with a hospital bill (or worse).

Happy Trails,

Jake

"Bonehenge" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 03:29:13 GMT, "Jake"
wrote:

Even the Japanese car manufacturers have
discovered that products made in the USA are better.

Actually, Japanese labor and shipping costs went up, making the
American factory more competitive. Check out where the Lexus
factories are located. Lexus may be the highest quality mass-produced
vehicle in the world, based on quality control issues and
reliability. Also, many of the high end Mazda, Nissan, Toyota, and
Honda vehicles are still made in Japan.

Lexus, IS Toyota.
Lets see..high end Toyota...Camry..Made in Kentucky, and imported to Japan.
BMW, Porche, Toyota, and Honda....making many of their models here in the
States...



Tools are an even more important issue, and the Pros know tools. Dewalt,
Klien, and others are US made and quality that you can stake your life
on.

I agree that tools are important, but many of the best stationary
tools now come from Austria, Germany, and Italy. My cabinet saw,
which certainly can kill you, was proudly made in Quebec, Canada, by
General.

Festool, Makita, and Bosch also sell very high quality tools made
outside of the USA. Many, if not most, of the American tool
manufacturers are steadily moving production offshore. Very few of
the USA branded, flag waving tools in my shop were actually
manufactured in the US. I don't think anybody can figure out where
Delta tools are made these days, including Delta! G

As CB said, do you really want to be 40 feet in the air (or even 15 feet)
on
some cheapo piece of crap that might shear a rivet or bolt?

100% agreement there! G

Lets not confuse "Made in Communist China" with "Made Outside of the
USA".

Barry

They exist. I have one that I bought in 1965 (pre-OSHA) that is still
quite a serviceable ladder.

RB

Bonehenge wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 20:03:34 -0400, "CBHVAC" same @as.it.was.com
wrote:


I have Davidsons, and Werners..all made here in the States, and I sure as
hell wont trust a made in China ladder when I am 45 feet up..


You have an extension ladder capable of getting you 45 feet up?

Barry

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...
In article ,
says...
I just bought a Werner MT-17 Multiladder at Costco - it appears to be
exactly the same as the Little Giant Model 17 ladder, which I've seen
on TV. The price for this Werner MT-17 is $219 all over the internet,
but Costco for some reason is selling them today (first time I've seen
them there) for $99...

[snip]

One Caveat - the $99 Werner is made in China, and the equivalent
Little Giant model 17 is made in the USA (and is priced accordingly at
$275-$450)

"Costco for some reason is selling them for $99"... Do you suppose that
"Made in China" might be the reason?

And do you *really* imagine that a $99 made-in-Communist-China ladder is
truly equivalent to a made-in-USA ladder priced at three to four times
that? You can't seriously believe that the quality is the same, can you?


Maybe I'm being a bit naive, but what I do find hard to believe is that
Werner would jeopardize their reputation by putting their name on a lower
quality copy of one of their own ladders. Are they identical, or is there
some obvious difference that might account for the lower price ?

In article , "jeffc" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om...

And do you *really* imagine that a $99 made-in-Communist-China ladder is
truly equivalent to a made-in-USA ladder priced at three to four times
that? You can't seriously believe that the quality is the same, can you?

Sure, it's possible. Like I said, sometimes there are patents that run out,
driving the price down.

I think you missed the part about made in Communist China versus made in the
United States. Do you *really* believe that the quality is the *same*? Or do
you suppose that maybe, just maybe, you get what you pay for?

In article , "Martin" wrote:

Maybe I'm being a bit naive, but what I do find hard to believe is that
Werner would jeopardize their reputation by putting their name on a lower
quality copy of one of their own ladders. Are they identical, or is there
some obvious difference that might account for the lower price ?

The "Made in China" sticker is certainly an "obvious difference that might
account for the lower price." Somewhat less obvious is what's implied by that
sticker: alloys that may not be up to manufacturer specifications, castings
that may be flawed internally, and absolutely non-existent quality control.

I saw a TV-piece on how there were only a handful of ladder manufacturers
left in the US....and they are slowly closing up shop. At some point not
too far off, there will be none.

In the late 90's, my out-of-college job was to transfer manufacturing to low
cost countries. I worked (and still do) for Fortune 5 company. My new job
within the company is transferring it back here due to the astronomical cost
of cleaning up the quality issues these exact same projects produced. We
are talking tens-of-millions of dollars of clean up.

Don't worry, it will all come full circle very soon. If you can, buy
American.

Oh, and stay out of HD and Loewes. Support your local
Industrial/Electrical/Plumbing supply houses.

TC

"CBHVAC" same @as.it.was.com wrote in message
...

"CecilWilliams" wrote in message
m...
I just bought a Werner MT-17 Multiladder at Costco - it appears to be
exactly the same as the Little Giant Model 17 ladder, which I've seen
on TV. The price for this Werner MT-17 is $219 all over the internet,
but Costco for some reason is selling them today (first time I've seen
them there) for $99... That's the tool bargain of the year, near as I
can tell. I've been outside in the yard playing on this ladder,
setting it up in all the different positions as on the TV infomercial
for the Little Giant, and I am loving it already. I'm going to sell my
two other regular extension ladders and pick up one more of these
Werner's - perhaps a taller MT-22 or MT-26 if I can find another good
deal on one!

One Caveat - the $99 Werner is made in China, and the equivalent
Little Giant model 17 is made in the USA (and is priced accordingly at
$275-$450)

- Cecil

Made in China? Buy all you want..hell, buy 10....
I have Davidsons, and Werners..all made here in the States, and I sure as
hell wont trust a made in China ladder when I am 45 feet up..
Cost isnt an object when your noggin is on the line...if your stupid
enough
to buy something that sounds so obviously cheap, and I dont mean in
monetary
value cheap, that you will be on, that might just fold up on you...then
perhaps you need to buy quite a few and use them often.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
In article , "Martin"
wrote:

Maybe I'm being a bit naive, but what I do find hard to believe is that
Werner would jeopardize their reputation by putting their name on a lower
quality copy of one of their own ladders. Are they identical, or is
there
some obvious difference that might account for the lower price ?

The "Made in China" sticker is certainly an "obvious difference that might
account for the lower price." Somewhat less obvious is what's implied by
that
sticker: alloys that may not be up to manufacturer specifications,
castings
that may be flawed internally, and absolutely non-existent quality
control.

That "Made in China" sticker is only an indication that Werner is paying a
lot less money for the product than it costs to make it here in the USA;
hence the lower selling price. Beyond that, the other implications are just
assumptions. Back to my point: I have to believe that Werner knows what
they're buying, and if they really don't care that their name is on a
product that might have all those supposed quality deficiencies, we should
begin to worry about what they're manufacturing in the USA.

"Bonehenge" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 15:53:54 GMT, "Oceans 2K"
wrote:


Support your local
Industrial/Electrical/Plumbing supply houses.

If folks do this, they'll also notice that BORGs, of any color, aren't
really cheaper.

Barry
We have no plumbing or industrial supply shops within convenient driving
distance, and the one electrical supply place has 9 to 5 Monday thru Friday.
Sorry, but I can't take a day off to go ladder shopping.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
In article , "jeffc"
wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om...

And do you *really* imagine that a $99 made-in-Communist-China ladder
is
truly equivalent to a made-in-USA ladder priced at three to four times
that? You can't seriously believe that the quality is the same, can
you?

Sure, it's possible. Like I said, sometimes there are patents that run
out,
driving the price down.

I think you missed the part about made in Communist China versus made in
the
United States. Do you *really* believe that the quality is the *same*? Or
do
you suppose that maybe, just maybe, you get what you pay for?

Likewise, you seem not to have listened to what I said. No, you do not
always get what you pay for. Sometimes you do. Sometimes things are
horribly overpriced for no good reason other than the fact that people
assume a higher priced item is "better".

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..

The "Made in China" sticker is certainly an "obvious difference that might
account for the lower price." Somewhat less obvious is what's implied by
that
sticker: alloys that may not be up to manufacturer specifications,
castings
that may be flawed internally, and absolutely non-existent quality
control.

And why exactly would Werner accept things not to their specifications?

In article , "jeffc" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "jeffc"
wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om...

And do you *really* imagine that a $99 made-in-Communist-China ladder
is
truly equivalent to a made-in-USA ladder priced at three to four times
that? You can't seriously believe that the quality is the same, can
you?

Sure, it's possible. Like I said, sometimes there are patents that run
out,
driving the price down.

I think you missed the part about made in Communist China versus made in
the
United States. Do you *really* believe that the quality is the *same*? Or
do
you suppose that maybe, just maybe, you get what you pay for?

Likewise, you seem not to have listened to what I said. No, you do not
always get what you pay for. Sometimes you do. Sometimes things are
horribly overpriced for no good reason other than the fact that people
assume a higher priced item is "better".


OK, one more time, and then I'm done. The issue is not whether a higher-priced
item is somehow automatically better than a lower-priced similar article. In
the case under discussion, the lower-priced article is manufactured in a
country well-known for producing low-priced articles of vastly lower quality.
The point is that the low price, in this case at least, is overwhelmingly
likely to go hand-in-hand with greatly diminished quality. If you want to
climb up a ladder made in Communist China, be my guest. I prefer to trust my
safety to something that was made by workers in a capitalist economy.

In article , "jeffc" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...

The "Made in China" sticker is certainly an "obvious difference that might
account for the lower price." Somewhat less obvious is what's implied by
that
sticker: alloys that may not be up to manufacturer specifications,
castings
that may be flawed internally, and absolutely non-existent quality
control.

And why exactly would Werner accept things not to their specifications?


a) because they're trying to make a few extra bucks
b) they may have lowered the specs to accomodate what Chinese factories are
able to produce (see a. above)

They wouldn't be the first company to have adopted either approach.

They exist. I have one that I bought in 1965 (pre-OSHA) that is still
quite a serviceable ladder.


You have an extension ladder capable of getting you 45 feet up?

Hell, you can buy a 40' aluminium or fiberglass extension ladder
at Home depot, if you can figure out how to get it home.

(although I can't figure out why they even MAKE a ladder
with a 250 pound load limit...)

We have no plumbing or industrial supply shops within convenient driving
distance, and the one electrical supply place has 9 to 5 Monday thru Friday.
Sorry, but I can't take a day off to go ladder shopping.

You should, anyway. The ladders that you can buy at home depot
are marginal at best, reguardless of where they come from.

"default" wrote in message
...



They exist. I have one that I bought in 1965 (pre-OSHA) that is still
quite a serviceable ladder.


You have an extension ladder capable of getting you 45 feet up?

Hell, you can buy a 40' aluminium or fiberglass extension ladder
at Home depot, if you can figure out how to get it home.


I put mine on the ladder racks on the van...



(although I can't figure out why they even MAKE a ladder
with a 250 pound load limit...)

"CecilWilliams" wrote in message
m...
I just bought a Werner MT-17 Multiladder at Costco - it appears to be
exactly the same as the Little Giant Model 17 ladder, which I've seen
on TV. The price for this Werner MT-17 is $219 all over the internet,
but Costco for some reason is selling them today (first time I've seen
them there) for $99...

Wow, I certainly stirred up a hornets nest with this one. To those of
you who think this made in China Werner ladder is somehow poorly made
with inferior metals, think again. You haven't kept up with the times.
China as we all know has made plenty of really crappy stuff in the
past. The key phrase there is, "in the past". Are any of you old
enough to remember when "Made in Japan" meant really crappy stuff made
with terrible materials? That was back in the '60's and early '70's.
Anything from Japan was junk back then, and no one in their right mind
bought Japanese tools or cars or electonics. My, how times have
changed... Japan slowly improved their manufacturing and kept
improving till they got really good at it. Taiwan? Korea? Same deal,
but a decade or two later. China is/was maybe 40 years behind everyone
else, but they are starting to catch up. (IMHO, turning your back on
the China of the future will be like turning your back on a freight
train. Possibly with similar results...)

At any rate, I bought the Werner "made in China" ladder and I've
looked it over and given it a good workout, and I'm very satisfied
with the quality of it. Those of you casting aspersions on it have
most likely never seen it, and you're speculating about something that
you don't really know anything about. The Werner has the look and feel
of quality. And I've noticed that many other "made in China" goods
I've bought this year seem to have improved greatly in quality. My
engineering background is only in computers and printers, (including
some aluminum casting and fab) so I'm not qualified to say whether
this ladder is made from a 6061 or 7075 aluminum alloy, but since it
is Type III and rated at 300 lbs and it has Werner's name on it, I
figure it can't be any worse than my 16 or 24 foot Werner Type II
aluminum extension ladders. It's certainly more convenient to use,
especially indoors...

- Cecil

"CecilWilliams" wrote in message
m...
I just bought a Werner MT-17 Multiladder at Costco - it appears to be
exactly the same as the Little Giant Model 17 ladder, which I've seen
on TV. The price for this Werner MT-17 is $219 all over the internet,
but Costco for some reason is selling them today (first time I've seen
them there) for $99...

Wow, I certainly stirred up a hornets nest with this one. To those of
you who think this made in China Werner ladder is somehow poorly made
with inferior metals, think again. You haven't kept up with the times.
China as we all know has made plenty of really crappy stuff in the
past. The key phrase there is, "in the past". Are any of you old
enough to remember when "Made in Japan" meant really crappy stuff made
with terrible materials? That was back in the '60's and early '70's.
Anything from Japan was junk back then, and no one in their right mind
bought Japanese tools or cars or electonics. My, how times have
changed... Japan slowly improved their manufacturing and kept
improving till they got really good at it. Taiwan? Korea? Same deal,
but a decade or two later. China is/was maybe 40 years behind everyone
else, but they are starting to catch up. (IMHO, turning your back on
the China of the future will be like turning your back on a freight
train. Possibly with similar results...)

At any rate, I bought the Werner "made in China" ladder and I've
looked it over and given it a good workout, and I'm very satisfied
with the quality of it. Those of you casting aspersions on it have
most likely never seen it, and you're speculating about something that
you don't really know anything about. The Werner has the look and feel
of quality. And I've noticed that many other "made in China" goods
I've bought this year seem to have improved greatly in quality. My
engineering background is only in computers and printers, (including
some aluminum casting and fab) so I'm not qualified to say whether
this ladder is made from a 6061 or 7075 aluminum alloy, but since it
is Type III and rated at 300 lbs and it has Werner's name on it, I
figure it can't be any worse than my 16 or 24 foot Werner Type II
aluminum extension ladders. It's certainly more convenient to use,
especially indoors...

- Cecil

"CecilWilliams" wrote in message
m...
I just bought a Werner MT-17 Multiladder at Costco - it appears to be
exactly the same as the Little Giant Model 17 ladder, which I've seen
on TV. The price for this Werner MT-17 is $219 all over the internet,
but Costco for some reason is selling them today (first time I've seen
them there) for $99...

Wow, I certainly stirred up a hornets nest with this one. To those of
you who think this made in China Werner ladder is somehow poorly made
with inferior metals, think again. You haven't kept up with the times.
China as we all know has made plenty of really crappy stuff in the
past. The key phrase there is, "in the past". Are any of you old
enough to remember when "Made in Japan" meant really crappy stuff made
with terrible materials? That was back in the '60's and early '70's.
Anything from Japan was junk back then, and no one in their right mind
bought Japanese tools or cars or electonics. My, how times have
changed... Japan slowly improved their manufacturing and kept
improving till they got really good at it. Taiwan? Korea? Same deal,
but a decade or two later. China is/was maybe 40 years behind everyone
else, but they are starting to catch up. (IMHO, turning your back on
the China of the future will be like turning your back on a freight
train. Possibly with similar results...)

At any rate, I bought the Werner "made in China" ladder and I've
looked it over and given it a good workout, and I'm very satisfied
with the quality of it. Those of you casting aspersions on it have
most likely never seen it, and you're speculating about something that
you don't really know anything about. The Werner has the look and feel
of quality. And I've noticed that many other "made in China" goods
I've bought this year seem to have improved greatly in quality. My
engineering background is only in computers and printers, (including
some aluminum casting and fab) so I'm not qualified to say whether
this ladder is made from a 6061 or 7075 aluminum alloy, but since it
is Type III and rated at 300 lbs and it has Werner's name on it, I
figure it can't be any worse than my 16 or 24 foot Werner Type II
aluminum extension ladders. It's certainly more convenient to use,
especially indoors...

- Cecil

In article , (CecilWilliams) wrote:
"CecilWilliams" wrote in message
m...
I just bought a Werner MT-17 Multiladder at Costco - it appears to be
exactly the same as the Little Giant Model 17 ladder, which I've seen
on TV. The price for this Werner MT-17 is $219 all over the internet,
but Costco for some reason is selling them today (first time I've seen
them there) for $99...

Wow, I certainly stirred up a hornets nest with this one. To those of
you who think this made in China Werner ladder is somehow poorly made
with inferior metals, think again. You haven't kept up with the times.
China as we all know has made plenty of really crappy stuff in the
past. The key phrase there is, "in the past".

You go on thinking that, then, if it makes you feel better -- but in fact,
China continues to produce plenty of really crappy stuff in the present. And
probably will continue to do so for the forseeable future.

Are any of you old
enough to remember when "Made in Japan" meant really crappy stuff made
with terrible materials? That was back in the '60's and early '70's.

Yes, I remember... and it took them a long time to start producing quality
merchandise, a LOT longer than Communist China has been manufacturing consumer
products for use in the Western world. You can't imagine, can you, that a
country with a communist economy would catch up *faster* than one with a
capitalist economy?

Anything from Japan was junk back then, and no one in their right mind
bought Japanese tools or cars or electonics. My, how times have
changed... Japan slowly improved their manufacturing and kept
improving till they got really good at it. Taiwan? Korea? Same deal,
but a decade or two later. China is/was maybe 40 years behind everyone
else, but they are starting to catch up.

True enough, but they haven't caught up yet. If you want quality products, you
still need to stay away from anything Chinese.

[snip]

since it
is Type III and rated at 300 lbs and it has Werner's name on it, I
figure it can't be any worse than my 16 or 24 foot Werner Type II
aluminum extension ladders.

Yeah, well, a number of people have bought Chinese-made electrical products
thinking that since it's UL-approved it must be OK -- without realizing that a
lot of those UL seals on Chinese products are _counterfeit_, and many of them
have been recalled after starting fires. Communist China does not recognize
intellectual property rights (such as approval seals, brand names, copyrights,
patents, etc) and you have ZERO assurance, none, zip, zilch, nada, that the
"300 pound" rating on your ladder bears ANY relationship to reality. You don't
even know that it's really Werner's name on it -- Communist China is also the
source of a staggering amount of counterfeit merchandise. In short, you bought
a pig in a poke. You have a ladder that *appears* to have the Werner brand
name on it, and *appears* to have a 300-pound duty rating, but you do not in
fact know what you have.

I wish you well with it.

In article , wrote:
On 16 Jun 2004 14:45:06 -0700, (CecilWilliams)
wrote:

this ladder is made from a 6061 or 7075 aluminum alloy, but since it
is Type III and rated at 300 lbs and it has Werner's name on it, I
figure it can't be any worse than my 16 or 24 foot Werner Type II
aluminum extension ladders. It's certainly more convenient to use,
especially indoors...


Type III is 200 pound, light duty rated.

Your type II is 225 pound, medium duty rated.

IA is 300 pound.

http://www.wernerladder.com

I missed that. :-(

Hmmm... interesting.... especially when considered in the light of my comments
in a previous post about the prevalence of counterfeit brand names and
approval certificates coming out of communist China.

Doug Miller wrote:

: You go on thinking that, then, if it makes you feel better -- but in fact,
: China continues to produce plenty of really crappy stuff in the present. And
: probably will continue to do so for the forseeable future.

The quality of a product is based on the design and quality control
practices in place during manufacturing. One of the reasons Japan had such
a turn around in reputation of manufactured goods was a man named Edward
Deeming. He went over there and preached quality control and they
listened. It doesn't matter where anything is manufactured, if a good
design is there and good quality control is implemented you are going to
have a good product.

: Yes, I remember... and it took them a long time to start producing quality
: merchandise, a LOT longer than Communist China has been manufacturing consumer
: products for use in the Western world. You can't imagine, can you, that a
: country with a communist economy would catch up *faster* than one with a
: capitalist economy?

You forget its capitalist companys using communist labor.

default wrote:


They exist. I have one that I bought in 1965 (pre-OSHA) that is still
quite a serviceable ladder.


You have an extension ladder capable of getting you 45 feet up?


Hell, you can buy a 40' aluminium or fiberglass extension ladder
at Home depot, if you can figure out how to get it home.

You just have to plan a route with lots of straight lines.

(or hitch a pair of wheels and strap it behind your monitorcycle

er, "motorcycle"


---

the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog the quick brown fox jumped
over the lazy dog... all work and no play makes jo...

Jake wrote:
"SaM" wrote in message
...

There are products made outside of the USA that are better. Don't assume
everything made in USA is good!

Man, where did you come from? Even the Japanese car manufacturers have
discovered that products made in the USA are better.

Tools are an even more important issue, and the Pros know tools. Dewalt,
Klien, and others are US made and quality that you can stake your life on.

Well, I'll recall doing set work and working with a bunch of older
grips, and a few of us younger guys (back then).

We mostly had Makita screw guns. I'd gotten mine because it was just
sensible to be able to swap batteries from the charger and sort out
who owned which at the end of the day.

One guy had a Black & Decker. Until it stopped going 'round and 'round.
Which makes a screw gun kinda useless. He cursed it and threw it.

One of the old grips said, "Black & Decker, huh? I got one of their
coffee makers."


Any one remember back in the 70's when Craftsman tools were Good Tools?