On 12/08/2016 02:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 1:39:18 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:

snip
id what he said was in an email, unencumbered by a
140 character limit. Would you grab the second sentence and claim it was
a standalone comment because there was a carriage return or two between the
two sentences?

"December 7 is a good day to remember that the world is dangerous and
shattering surprise is possible even when we have been warned.

75 years ago the Japanese displayed professional brilliance and
technological power launching surprises from Hawaii to the Philippines."




Moot point by issue was with the word "brilliant"

On 12/08/2016 01:06 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
hought the US had the
guts or capability to fight back.


Do you not understand the difference between tactical and strategic?
The Japanese attack was a spectacular tactical success. The Japanese
political strategy was ill advised.



Put it this way concerning Newt:

When Trump lied during his campaign, afterwards, Gingrich called it a
good campaign "device" .



But yes you do have a point but nothing will change my mind as to what a
low-life Gingrich is.

On 12/08/2016 12:50 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per philo:
For Newt to have praised the Japanese attack is no different than had he
praised the "911" attackers for a brilliant surprise move.

Right after 9/11, some talk show guy made a statement to the effect of
"Whatever those guys were, they were not cowards. Cowards to not
knowingly go to their deaths in support of their mission."

Needless-to-say he was eviscerated by the media and the public.

My thought was "Know your enemy."




Anyone who stabs someone in the back with a knife is a coward.


People who commit suicide are the biggest cowards of them all.

On 12/08/2016 01:14 PM, FromTheRafters wrote:


It didn't take them very long to realize what a big mistake they made,
but they surrendered too late.


Yep, That was my whole point, the decision to attack Pearl Harbor was
not a brilliant move at all. It was step one to the total annihilation
of Japan.

Even if Gingrich made one additional tweet that day that I initially
missed...it's his use of the word "brilliant" that rankled me for a
dastardly and cowardly deed.

I agree that it was too close to giving praise for the attack even if
you don't ignore the context in which it was written. On a day of
rememberance, it is beyond me how anyone would say such a thing.

There seems to be something about Twitter that idle's the brain while
engaging the fingers.



Thank you.
No matter how crappy of an argument I made, what Gingrich said just
plain did not come out right.

Bottom line though: he had zero praise for America

On 12/08/2016 12:47 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per philo:
Bottom line is that the US knew the Japanese were going to attack.

When I was stationed at Hickam AFB, working the 4-midnight shift I used
to hitchhike into Waikiki every morning during the summer surf season.

One ride I got was from an old guy who claimed to have been manning the
radar installation near Wheeler AFB.

He claimed to have seen the attack coming on the radar, but higher-ups
blew him off both because radar was some sort of new-fangled thing that
nobody really understood and because they expected a flight of some sort
of US planes about that time.




I think I've heard that too.


BTW: When I was a kid, the guy next door was stationed at Pearl Harbor.

He was below deck pressing his pants. After the heard the explosions, he
came up and the whole top of the ship was heavily damaged.
Sure wish I could remember what ship he was on...but I assure you he
would have puked to have seen Gingrich's Tweet.

On 12/08/2016 12:53 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per philo:
I did not see the movie but it was playing in Germany when I was
stationed there in 1970.

I gave it five stars and would recommend it to just about anybody.

While they were filming it, my brother was working as a CID agent in a
building in Pearl Harbor. He said it was a *really* weird feeling to
look out the window and see faux Jap zeros faux-strafing the buildings.




Right now I am re-living WWII

I'm in the middle of The Naked and the Dead by Norman Mailer


I had seen the movie many years ago and have forgotten it...but the book
is absolutely brilliant.


If anyone here would have been reading the book when Newt made that
statement. they'd be just as upset as I was.

On 12/08/2016 12:56 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per philo:
No matter how you take it, Pearl Harbor day was a bad day to praise the
Japanese attack. Gingrich made no comment anywhere in praise of American
values.

Gingrich is the biggest gutless wonder I've yet seen in Trump's cast of
characters. As a veteran I find "Armchair Generals" quite pukeable.

The term I used to hear applied to Rumsfeld, Cheyney, and the like was
"Chicken Hawk". Rumsfeld's "You go to war with what you have.."
response made my want to puke.

Also, I have heard several people credit Gingrich with starting the
polarization between parties.... If that's true, I wonder if he has some
sort of psychological defect that prevents him from putting himself in
other people's shoes.




Yep he's a very ill individual.


That said, I see Trump is getting some criticism for surrounding himself
with a lot of retired top-brass.


Truth is I think that may not be a bad move as they know the
consequences of war. It's the civilians such as Newt who would have
washed out of basic training who are all too eager to send other
people's kids off to war.

On 12/08/2016 12:50 PM, dpb wrote:
On 12/08/2016 10:20 AM, philo wrote:
...

You purposely chose to misread what I wrote.

No, I didn't...

I did NOT take Gingrich's quote out of context. That was the sum total
of his statement.
...

There's _always_ context around the rest of what was going that he was
responding to or that prompted it...I'm sure that one particular
sentence didn't just appear out of the blue.


On Twitter statement do in fact just pop out of the blue so to speak.

The others here have posted a separate Tweet he made. When both Tweets
are taken together as a whole, it makes no difference.

On 12/08/2016 01:03 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Muggles:
Even the Japanese didn't attack the civilian population that day at
Pearl Harbor. But, today attacking civilians has no roadblock to it for
those who are terrorists.

The Rape of Nanjing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQnBvs3LTZw
"The Rape of Nanjing" by Iris Chang

Unit 731:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdM3_kzhscM


Definitely NOT isolated atrocities... repeated over-and-over again
across Asia.

And Japan *still* has monuments honoring the perpetrators.



War is always hell

On 12/08/2016 11:59 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 12/8/2016 11:33 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 11:37:00 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 12/08/2016 10:17 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 9:55:29 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
Though I've been keeping my political remarks to a minimum ...here is
the exact quote from Gingrich. He made this yesterday on the 75th
anniversary of Pearl Harbor:


snip

Had the statement been part of of a broader analysis it might have been
a different issue

Apparently it was part of a somewhat broader analysis.


No it wasn't he made two Tweets. Twitter is not the place to posit a
broad analysis. He made no praise anywhere of American values.

You really are an imbecile. He made two tweets and you totally ignored
the first, which puts it in context. You came here and told us it was
"standalone". That was false. The tweet that immediately preceded it,
shows he was speaking about learning the lessons of Pearl Harbor as they
still apply today.

You're not much of a people person, are you? Philo is obviously not an
imbecile. What he IS is someone who cares about what actually happened
to the people at Pearl Harbor.

If you understood people, you'd understand he's probably not the only
person to "hear" the same thing from the comments Gingrich made. It's
an emotionally charged issue, and you've shown you've no skill to
understand how or why people would respond emotionally to anything.




Thanks. Gingrich's statement was just not the thing to do.

My issue was not only calling the dastardly attack "brilliant", it was
that he completely ignored America

On 12/08/2016 02:33 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"philo" wrote in message
news
The fleet was out to sea , so only a tiny handful of ships were sunk. Most
were re-floated quite rapidly.

The (few) carriers were at sea. At that time, the "fleet" was battleships.
All eight were either sunk or damaged badly enough so they were our of
service for times varying from months to years. Three cruisers too and some
destroyers and auxilaries. Not to mention planes. Here's a list...
http://www.pearlharbor.org/ships-and-aircraft.asp




Ok thanks

"Muggles" wrote in message
news
Even the general in charge of Pearl Harbor at the time didn't know that
there was an eminent threat because he didn't receive intel that was
vital to preparing for an eminent attack.

Two points of order, net nannying, whatever you eant to call it.

1. The only generals around Pearl Harbor are there as gusrs, probably for
lunch.

2. "Eminent" and "imminent" are two different things (for philo too).

"philo" wrote in message
news
China is a Communist county so theoretically our enemy.

Why?

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
...
Per philo:
Bottom line is that the US knew the Japanese were going to attack.

When I was stationed at Hickam AFB, working the 4-midnight shift I used
to hitchhike into Waikiki every morning during the summer surf season.

One ride I got was from an old guy who claimed to have been manning the
radar installation near Wheeler AFB.

He claimed to have seen the attack coming on the radar, but higher-ups
blew him off both because radar was some sort of new-fangled thing that
nobody really understood and because they expected a flight of some sort
of US planes about that time.

There were about a half dozen radar sites on Oahu at the time, none at
Wheeler AFB (there was one at adjacent Schofield buy I don't know if it was
operational); both are in the center of Oahu. The one that picked up planes
was Opana Radar Site which was near Kahuku which is at the NE tip of Oahu.

"philo" wrote in message
news
On 12/08/2016 10:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:
nerals" quite pukeable.

Maybe if you started with their full quotes, in context, you wouldn't
get sick as much?



!!!!IT WAS THE FULL ****ING QUOTE!!!!

I don't know much about tactics but it seems to me to be folly to try to
defend an indefensible position.

"philo" wrote in message
news
Even the Japanese didn't attack the civilian population that day at
Pearl Harbor. But, today attacking civilians has no roadblock to it for
those who are terrorists.

I am glad you qualified it with "that day" else I might have had to mutter,
"Nanjing" (et al).

As far as attacking civilians goes, would you consider the day & night
bombing - up to 2000 bombers per day - of German cities to be the act of
terrorists? How about the fire bonbing of Hamburg? Of Dresden? Of Tokyo?
Hiroshima & Nagasaki, terroristic acts?

On 12/08/2016 3:41 PM, philo wrote:
....

On Twitter statement do in fact just pop out of the blue so to speak.

Excepting as noted, it's highly unlikely just such a sentence would be
the result on its own, and...

The others here have posted a separate Tweet he made. When both Tweets
are taken together as a whole, it makes no difference.

as it turns out it wasn't. I saw the other comment and while alone it
still isn't anything offensive to anybody but somebody looking to be
offended, it is then with the earlier very clear that Newt was putting
out a serious warning on a serious day about being caught unprepared
(yet) again...which is the sort of think I'd think/expect from Newt; as
said, whether you agree/disagree with his politics, he's no dummy.

Clearly you can't see the forest for the trees in letting your personal
dislike cloud any judgment on content. "Shoot the messenger, it _might_
be good news!"

But, continue to rail at your heart's content for what good it
does...you probably should as I suggested earlier, ignore all such
postings; you'll only be upset for no purpose otherwise.

"dadiOH" wrote in message
news

"Muggles" wrote in message
news
Even the general in charge of Pearl Harbor at the time didn't know that
there was an eminent threat because he didn't receive intel that was
vital to preparing for an eminent attack.

Two points of order, net nannying, whatever you eant to call it. want

1. The only generals around Pearl Harbor are there as gusrs, probably for
lunch. guests

2. "Eminent" and "imminent" are two different things (for philo too).

On 12/8/2016 11:16 AM, philo wrote:

The Japanese were the ones who made a huge mis-judgment because they
though the US would not have the stomach for a war. There was no
brilliance on the part of the Japanese and the attack had (virtually) no
effect on America's military strength.

They killed 1178 servicemen while we were not prepared. They sunk ships
so they could not be used in the war. On that day they kicked out ass.




That said, had Gingrich wanted to praise the Japanese, this was the
worst possible way to have done so.


I don't think he was praising, but made an accurate statement. Perhaps
the delivery could have been better, but he was correct.

"philo" wrote in message
news
You're never going to have a perfect strike, the US carriers being out
to sea was a lucky thing for the US. But overall, it was a stunning
military engagement. The Japanese inflicted huge damage on us, with
very minimal losses to themselves. That is a major success in any
battle.


It was not a stunning victory by any means. A minute portion of the fleet
was sunk in port.

Eight out of eight is not minute.

All but one ship was put back in commission a quick order.

Wrong. Didn't bother to read my link, did you? Second chance...
http://www.pearlharbor.org/ships-and-aircraft.asp

On 12/8/2016 11:41 AM, philo wrote:

Bottom line is that the US knew the Japanese were going to attack.
Hardly a brilliant move on the part of the Japanese.


One gang "team J", kicks the ass of another gang
The other gang, team U", knew they were going to be attacked but
decided to sleep in instead and let the members be killed.

Which gang was smarter that day?

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 15:23:59 -0600, philo wrote:



Of course I have no idea what Roosevelt knew

but with Gingrich it's an easy case because we have all read his Tweet.

In my book when Gingrich did not say one word in praise of America but
instead called Japan's attack "brilliant" he's a traitor.


Alright, it is obvious your position is one of emotion, not logic or
facts. I reserve my 'dealing with emotional arguments' energy for two
of my granddaughters....

On 12/08/2016 08:55 AM, philo wrote:


I went back to Gingrich's twitter page.

I said he made a Tweet and others here said he made two Tweets

We were all wrong. On Dec 7th he made a total of three Tweets and I will
repost them in correct order:


December 7 is a good day to remember that the world is dangerous and
shattering surprise is possible even when we have been warned.

75 years ago the Japanese displayed professional brilliance and
technological power launching surprises from Hawaii to the Philippines

Japanese planning and trainng let them also carry out surprise attacks
in Hong Kong and Malaysia.It was widest surprise attack in history





Here is an interesting story concerning Pearl Harbor

http://www.thenewamerican.com/cultur...ed-fdr-was-not



Whether you believe the article or not, Gingrich is wrong on so many
points it's hard to know where to begin.


Gingrich's first Tweet was fine other than being grammatically awkward.
The issue I had was with his second...and there is no need for me to
rehash what I've already said.

Since those Tweets were the sum total of the ones he made that day, I am
disgusted that he did not say anything about America itself including
our soldiers.


The interesting thing is his 3rd Tweet which I have cut and pasted above.

NOTE the misspelling of the word "training" .

This means that Gingrich did not even bother proof reading his remarks
and like Trump just burst them out in a fit of bluster. At least Trump
knows how to use a spell checker.

Heck, I usually read the drivel I post here once before I hit the send
button. He made a statement without even thinking about what the hell he
was saying.

It also shows that he's technically illiterate in that he evidently does
not even know how to use a spell checker.


Hopefully I am now done with my comments.

philo wrote:

There was no brilliance on the part of the Japanese

There was brilliance in the military tactics but delusion in the
geopolitical strategy. Yamamoto thought an attack on America was a
mistake, but he followed orders.

On 12/08/2016 08:55 AM, philo wrote:



I mentioned that Gingrich made a post that I did not like.
Rather than get to the heart of it, some here mentioned that he made two
Tweets yesterday. In re-checking I see we were all wrong, he made a sum
total of three Tweets on Dec. 7th.

I will cut and paste here in correct order:


----start of cut and paste----


December 7 is a good day to remember that the world is dangerous and
shattering surprise is possible even when we have been warned.

75 years ago the Japanese displayed professional brilliance and
technological power launching surprises from Hawaii to the Philippines


Japanese planning and trainng let them also carry out surprise attacks
in Hong Kong and Malaysia.It was widest surprise attack in history




---end of cut and paste----


Because the grammaticality of his statements is poor and there is one
mis-spelling, it's obvious that he wrote them in a hurry and did not
think things through.

For some dummy like me to post something like that on Usenet is one
thing...but for a public figure to do so is something else. Because
"training" is spelled wrong, it seems he does not even grasp the
fundamentals of a simple spell checker.

Conspicuously absent is any tribute to the American military and the
sacrifices they made for our freedom. Equally troubling was heaping
praise on the Japanese for their brilliance. I've made enough previous
comments so there is no need for me to elaborate.

Even his last statement is faulty for many reasons. Although those at
Pearl Harbor were obviously surprised, FDR had good reason to know we
were going to be attacked at some point. The day of "911" was probably a
much larger surprise, but that is still a pale comparison.

Gingrich has an encyclopedic ignorance of WWII if he thinks he can get
away with a fool statement such as he's made. Operation Barbarossa,
where Hitler sent millions of troops to attack the Soviet Union made
Pearl Harbor look like a picnic. Stalin had a pact with Hitler and was
absolutely stunned by the change of tide.

It would be nice if Gingrich even had a slight hint of a clue as to what
is rational.


Finally. If one cannot coherently get their ideas across in a single
Tweet one is guilty of a cluttered thinking process. It took Gingrich
three Tweets to get across an idea that could have been contained to a
single post. At least Trump does not go over two.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:14:03 -0600, philo wrote:

Hopefully I am now done with my comments.

Good.

Newt is smart, knows his history and talks about history in any
conversation. Spell checking is important to you.

The Japanese were brilliant, developed a strategy, implemented the
needed logistics, sailed across the Pacific and hit us on our
sovereign land.

An Iraq prisoner ask a tank crew why they had a photo of Rommel inside
the turret. "If you studied him you wouldn't be sitting in my tank".
(paraphrased)

The Japanese found out they had awoken a "sleeping giant".

Now go back to Tweeter.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 17:21:02 -0700, (Neill
Massello) wrote:

philo wrote:

There was no brilliance on the part of the Japanese

There was brilliance in the military tactics but delusion in the
geopolitical strategy. Yamamoto thought an attack on America was a
mistake, but he followed orders.

Agree. They woke up the "sleeping giant".

On 12/08/2016 06:39 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:14:03 -0600, philo wrote:

Hopefully I am now done with my comments.

Good.

Newt is smart, knows his history and talks about history in any
conversation.
Obviously he does not or he would not have made such statements.




Spell checking is important to you.

The Japanese were brilliant, developed a strategy, implemented the
needed logistics, sailed across the Pacific and hit us on our
sovereign land.

Very brilliant indeed, their country was blown to smithereens. As I've
stated before my father saw it with his own eyes and described it to me
in great detail.

An Iraq prisoner ask a tank crew why they had a photo of Rommel inside
the turret. "If you studied him you wouldn't be sitting in my tank".
(paraphrased)

Now /that/ is an excellent point. Not only was he brilliant, he at least
gave it a good try in his part in his attempt to assassinate Hitler.
Unfortunately he was not quite brilliant enough.


The Japanese found out they had awoken a "sleeping giant".

Yep

Now go back to Tweeter.




You spelled "Twitter" wrong but I know you did that purposely unlike
Gingrich.

The only reason on am on Twitter at all is so I can monitor posts made
by Trump. Personally I have no other use for it.


BTW: I see two of my posts appeared. The first was an unedited draft .
What this means of course is I'm as much a dumb **** as Gingrich...

So ****ing typical. sheesh

On 12/08/2016 05:07 PM, dpb wrote:
On 12/08/2016 3:41 PM, philo wrote:
...

On Twitter statement do in fact just pop out of the blue so to speak.

Excepting as noted, it's highly unlikely just such a sentence would be
the result on its own, and...

The others here have posted a separate Tweet he made. When both Tweets
are taken together as a whole, it makes no difference.

as it turns out it wasn't. I saw the other comment and while alone it
still isn't anything offensive to anybody but somebody looking to be
offended, it is then with the earlier very clear that Newt was putting
out a serious warning on a serious day about being caught unprepared
(yet) again...which is the sort of think I'd think/expect from Newt; as
said, whether you agree/disagree with his politics, he's no dummy.

Clearly you can't see the forest for the trees in letting your personal
dislike cloud any judgment on content. "Shoot the messenger, it _might_
be good news!"

But, continue to rail at your heart's content for what good it
does...you probably should as I suggested earlier, ignore all such
postings; you'll only be upset for no purpose otherwise.



Down below I reposted all three of his Tweets and commented appropriately,

On 12/08/2016 04:38 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"philo" wrote in message
news
On 12/08/2016 10:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:
nerals" quite pukeable.

Maybe if you started with their full quotes, in context, you wouldn't
get sick as much?



!!!!IT WAS THE FULL ****ING QUOTE!!!!

I don't know much about tactics but it seems to me to be folly to try to
defend an indefensible position.




I amended my mis-statement below

On 12/08/2016 04:13 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"philo" wrote in message
news
China is a Communist county so theoretically our enemy.

Why?




The US always hates Communists, personally I could care less.

On 12/08/2016 05:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/8/2016 11:16 AM, philo wrote:

The Japanese were the ones who made a huge mis-judgment because they
though the US would not have the stomach for a war. There was no
brilliance on the part of the Japanese and the attack had (virtually) no
effect on America's military strength.

They killed 1178 servicemen while we were not prepared. They sunk ships
so they could not be used in the war. On that day they kicked out ass.




That said, had Gingrich wanted to praise the Japanese, this was the
worst possible way to have done so.


I don't think he was praising, but made an accurate statement. Perhaps
the delivery could have been better, but he was correct.



Agreed. A few years later it did not work out quite so well for them.

On 12/08/2016 06:21 PM, Neill Massello wrote:
philo wrote:

There was no brilliance on the part of the Japanese

There was brilliance in the military tactics but delusion in the
geopolitical strategy. Yamamoto thought an attack on America was a
mistake, but he followed orders.



Ok Yes.

On 12/08/2016 06:48 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 17:21:02 -0700, (Neill
Massello) wrote:

philo wrote:

There was no brilliance on the part of the Japanese

There was brilliance in the military tactics but delusion in the
geopolitical strategy. Yamamoto thought an attack on America was a
mistake, but he followed orders.

Agree. They woke up the "sleeping giant".




At least there is something here I think we can agree with.

On 12/08/2016 05:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/8/2016 11:41 AM, philo wrote:

Bottom line is that the US knew the Japanese were going to attack.
Hardly a brilliant move on the part of the Japanese.


One gang "team J", kicks the ass of another gang
The other gang, team U", knew they were going to be attacked but
decided to sleep in instead and let the members be killed.

Which gang was smarter that day?



All war is a senseless waste.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:51:59 -0500, "dadiOH" wrote:

Wrong. Didn't bother to read my link, did you? Second chance...
http://www.pearlharbor.org/ships-and-aircraft.asp


USS Nevada, near the Arizona got under way, sailing for open seas.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/military/remembering-the-uss-nevada-s-daring-run-the-sea-during-attack-pearl-harbor

"The USS Nevada was “defended by teenagers” when it was strafed,
bombed and torpedoed during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on
Dec. 7, 1941. But the steel in the souls of those young men helped
them pull off one of the most storied maneuvers in maritime military
history.

The story of the Nevada’s improbable run for the sea 75 years ago on
Wednesday – it was the only U.S. battleship that managed to get
underway during the attack — is not only about the valor of her crew,
however.

The state’s “Battle Born” namesake was herself a warrior for the ages:
The World War I-vintage battleship not only survived the attack on
Pearl Harbor, but went on to fire her guns during the D-Day invasion
in France, in South Pacific battles at Iwo Jima and Okinawa and
finally survive two nuclear bomb blasts off Bikini island before being
mercifully dispatched to Davy Jones’ locker."

On Thu, 08 Dec 2016 17:25:37 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:51:59 -0500, "dadiOH" wrote:

Wrong. Didn't bother to read my link, did you? Second chance...
http://www.pearlharbor.org/ships-and-aircraft.asp


USS Nevada, near the Arizona got under way, sailing for open seas.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/military/remembering-the-uss-nevada-s-daring-run-the-sea-during-attack-pearl-harbor

"The USS Nevada was “defended by teenagers” when it was strafed,
bombed and torpedoed during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on
Dec. 7, 1941. But the steel in the souls of those young men helped
them pull off one of the most storied maneuvers in maritime military
history.

The story of the Nevada’s improbable run for the sea 75 years ago on
Wednesday – it was the only U.S. battleship that managed to get
underway during the attack — is not only about the valor of her crew,
however.

The state’s “Battle Born” namesake was herself a warrior for the ages:
The World War I-vintage battleship not only survived the attack on
Pearl Harbor, but went on to fire her guns during the D-Day invasion
in France, in South Pacific battles at Iwo Jima and Okinawa and
finally survive two nuclear bomb blasts off Bikini island before being
mercifully dispatched to Davy Jones’ locker."

Map: https://tinyurl.com/zopz7cv

On 12/08/2016 06:05 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 15:23:59 -0600, philo wrote:



Of course I have no idea what Roosevelt knew

but with Gingrich it's an easy case because we have all read his Tweet.

In my book when Gingrich did not say one word in praise of America but
instead called Japan's attack "brilliant" he's a traitor.


Alright, it is obvious your position is one of emotion, not logic or
facts. I reserve my 'dealing with emotional arguments' energy for two
of my granddaughters....




Nope. There is no disputing what he wrote. It's plain as day.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 19:07:52 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/08/2016 06:48 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 17:21:02 -0700, (Neill
Massello) wrote:

philo wrote:

There was no brilliance on the part of the Japanese

There was brilliance in the military tactics but delusion in the
geopolitical strategy. Yamamoto thought an attack on America was a
mistake, but he followed orders.

Agree. They woke up the "sleeping giant".




At least there is something here I think we can agree with.

"Think"? Either you agree or don't agree. Make up my mind.

Thinking is dangerous.

On 12/8/2016 6:38 PM, philo wrote:
On 12/08/2016 08:55 AM, philo wrote:



I mentioned that Gingrich made a post that I did not like.
Rather than get to the heart of it, some here mentioned that he made two
Tweets yesterday. In re-checking I see we were all wrong, he made a sum
total of three Tweets on Dec. 7th.

I will cut and paste here in correct order:


----start of cut and paste----


December 7 is a good day to remember that the world is dangerous and
shattering surprise is possible even when we have been warned.

75 years ago the Japanese displayed professional brilliance and
technological power launching surprises from Hawaii to the Philippines

Japanese planning and trainng let them also carry out surprise attacks
in Hong Kong and Malaysia.It was widest surprise attack in history

---end of cut and paste----

I think Gingrich summed up the essence of what he was wanting to say
with his last sentence. "It was the widest surprise attack in history".

Because the grammaticality of his statements is poor and there is one
mis-spelling, it's obvious that he wrote them in a hurry and did not
think things through.

He's human just like the rest of us.

For some dummy like me to post something like that on Usenet is one
thing...but for a public figure to do so is something else. Because
"training" is spelled wrong, it seems he does not even grasp the
fundamentals of a simple spell checker.

The thing is, we tend to forget that people in the public eye are still
just men or women.

Conspicuously absent is any tribute to the American military and the
sacrifices they made for our freedom. Equally troubling was heaping
praise on the Japanese for their brilliance. I've made enough previous
comments so there is no need for me to elaborate.

I don't understand why he would have to say that. Pearl Harbor was all
about how the Japanese effort to invade the US via Hawaii. Our military
were taken by surprise, and while they made extreme sacrifices, our
military didn't have a brilliant moment in history on that day.

Gingrich wasn't wrong. It just wasn't politically or socially correct to
say because everyone else was talking about the horrors of how our Navy
was attacked. I don't think he dissed the US because he didn't praise
the US. I think he was just making a point about how the Japanese
painstakingly planned and set out to achieve a military victory.

It's important, I think, to understand the sort of resolve it takes for
countries to invade other countries. We need to have an even greater
resolve so we can plan ahead to stop such things from happening, imo,
and if we can't recognize how the Japanese achieved what they saw as a
successful plan of attack, how will we be able to learn from it?

[...]
--
Maggie