On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:27:09 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

All you normally need to do is provide enough of an
incentive for the crim to loot someone else's house.

Even the stupidest crim can usually be relied on to work that out.

[Snip]

Oh bull****. What its about is making it obvious that your place is
a hell of a lot more of a hassle to loot that someone else's place.

This is exactly the case. We live in a nice, fairly
upper-middle-class sort of neighborhood. Not the place for art or
jewel thieves, but a great place for finding TVs, VCRs, computers, and
other electronic toys.

When we talked to a deputy sheriff about security and alarms and
stuff, he said that no one could keep a truly determined thief out,
but it was easy to deflect a casual thief. The whole idea is to make
sure your house isn't a target of opportunity. Deadbolts, a dog,
foliage clipped back from doors and windows, motion-sensing lights, a
security system--these would deflect the casual thief to another house
without them.

It's like the joke about the two hunters in bear country. When one
told the other that he couldn't outrun a bear, the fellow observed
that he didn't have to outrun the bear, he just had to outrun his
buddy. That applies to security in suburbia, too.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

"Mary Shafer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:27:09 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

All you normally need to do is provide enough of an
incentive for the crim to loot someone else's house.

Even the stupidest crim can usually be relied on to work that out.

[Snip]

Oh bull****. What its about is making it obvious that your place is
a hell of a lot more of a hassle to loot that someone else's place.

This is exactly the case. We live in a nice, fairly
upper-middle-class sort of neighborhood. Not the place for art or
jewel thieves, but a great place for finding TVs, VCRs, computers, and
other electronic toys.

When we talked to a deputy sheriff about security and alarms and
stuff, he said that no one could keep a truly determined thief out,
but it was easy to deflect a casual thief. The whole idea is to make
sure your house isn't a target of opportunity. Deadbolts, a dog,
foliage clipped back from doors and windows, motion-sensing lights, a
security system--these would deflect the casual thief to another house
without them.

It's like the joke about the two hunters in bear country. When one
told the other that he couldn't outrun a bear, the fellow observed
that he didn't have to outrun the bear, he just had to outrun his
buddy. That applies to security in suburbia, too.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

"Mary Shafer" wrote in message
...



It's like the joke about the two hunters in bear country. When one
told the other that he couldn't outrun a bear, the fellow observed
that he didn't have to outrun the bear, he just had to outrun his
buddy. That applies to security in suburbia, too.


All this talk of dogs and bears... we have a "killer" attack cat... :-))

Frank Olson
wrote in message news:gJkjc.252199$Pk3.191198@pd7tw1no...
Mary Shafer wrote

It's like the joke about the two hunters in bear country. When
one told the other that he couldn't outrun a bear, the fellow
observed that he didn't have to outrun the bear, he just had
to outrun his buddy. That applies to security in suburbia, too.

All this talk of dogs and bears... we have a "killer" attack cat... :-))

Yeah, I did too when I was a teenager.

No deterrence for a crim tho, its approach was to lurk
invisibly and savage your ankles as you walked past |-)

wrote in message ...


"Robert L. Bass" wrote:

I just love it when some idiot says "alarm? My .357 is the
only protection I need."

Half the time they wind up shooting themselves or their kid shoots a
playmate. The other half of the time the thief takes the gun away and
shoots them with it.

Right.

According to the CDC, there were 802 unintentional firearms deaths
in 2001, nationwide. By contrast, there were 3,923 drownings.



43,987 deaths by motor vehicles... ban those THEN talk to me about banning
guns.

"Beachcomber" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:27:09 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:


JerryMouse wrote in message
...
alarman wrote
Kukutyin wrote

You don't need prewiring the house. if you are use German Shepherd

You are a fool if you think a dog is the answer to your security
needs. Same goes for a gun. I just love it when some idiot says
"alarm? My .357 is the only protection I need."

A homeowner with a pistol (or the fear of a homeowner
with a pistol) is the only guaranteed burglary deterent.

It isnt guaranteed, essentially because no burglar can
be sure that someone inside the house is armed, and
obviously if there is no one in the house when its being
burgled, the gun wont do a damned thing to the burglar.

The big advantage of a dog is that with a suitable dog, even
the stupidest crim should be aware that the dog is there.

There are other considerations that owners face when dealing with
protection dogs. I can't think of anyone who would want to be in the
place of these dog owners...



Investigation continues into deadly dog mauling attack


Source:http://www.kgw.com/news-local/storie...oy_mauled_.15d
994037.html

02:40 PM PDT on Monday, April 26, 2004

By ABE ESTIMADA, ANTONIA GIEDWOYN and CHRISTINE UMAYAM, KGW Staff

SIFTON, Wash. -- The owners of two dogs that may have been involved in
the mauling and killing of an eight-year-old boy during the weekend
gave up possession of their pets on Monday.

John Streeter, 8, was mauled to death by his neighbor's dogs. The
female dogs, a mix of Bullmastiff and German shepherd, named Diamond
and Precious remain impounded at The Humane Society for Southwest
Washington. At least one of the dogs was involved in the attack, but
it is unknown if both killed Johnny Streeter.

Also, Monday, investigators ruled the cause of death as blunt cervical
trauma, which matches what detectives initially suspected in the dog
attack.

While the investigation continues into the attack that killed Johnny,
parents and Evergreen School District officials in southwest
Washington tried to explain to their children and students what
happened on Saturday.

Obviously, they're going to talk to the kindergartners a little
differently than they'll talk to the fifth graders, but talk to them
about the fact that a child was attacked by dogs, what happened, and
then just let kids talk, said Carol Fenstermacher, a spokesperson for
the school district.

One of the two mix Bullmastiff-Shepard dogs that mauled the boy. The
dogs haven't had any problems in the past, said Brittany Gosselin,
director of development for the Humane Society.

This is the first, apparently, that they've shown up on anybody's
radar screen, she said. The sheriff's department has looked into it.
Animal control has looked into it.

Neighbors said Johnny had often played with the dogs, who were
considered sweet and docile. Bullmastiffs are considered
family-oriented dogs with calm, protective dispositions, according to
the American Kennel Club.

The boy lived next door to the animals. Johnny had apparently gone
next door to play with his 14-year-old and 15-year-old neighbors in
the 14500 block of NE 71st Street in Sifton, a community northeast of
Vancouver.

The teens' parents were on vacation away from home when the dogs
attacked, said Sgt. Steve Shea, a spokesman for the Clark County
Sheriff's Office. The parents, whose names haven't been released,
reportedly instructed their children not to let anyone into the
backyard with the two dogs while they were away.

The three kids had been playing inside the home before Streeter
apparently went into the yard when no one was watching.

The 15-year-old girl called 9-1-1 when she saw Streeter in the
backyard with the dogs on top of him, authorities said. Clark County
sheriff's deputies pronounced the boy dead about 7 p.m. Saturday. No
arrests have been made.

After their investigation, the Clark Co. Sheriff's Office Major Crimes
Unit finish will turn the case over to the prosecutor's office.
Authorities with the prosecutor's office will then review the case and
decide if charges should be filed and what will happen to the dogs,
Shea said.

(The Associated Press contributed to this report.)


These don't sound like "protection dogs" to me... Maybe guard or attack
dogs... Never heard of a protection dog hurting ANYONE since they aren't
trained to attack (actually trained NOT to attack).

"George Wenzel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
A homeowner with a pistol (or the fear of a homeowner with a pistol) is
the
only guaranteed burglary deterent.

Bull****. Say you've got a house with no alarm and no dog. Want to find
out if there's a homeowner there with a gun? Use foolproof method: RING
THE DOORBELL. If nobody answers, then you don't have to worry about the
"guaranteed burglary deterrent" being a problem.

I NEVER answer my door unless I am expecting a visitor.


Oh, and don't forget that you vastly increase the chances that you or a
family member will get shot if you decide to keep a loaded weapon in your
house.


My wife and I are both well-trained in firearms and their use as it pertains
to home defense (hint: pistol = bad idea). No children by choice.

Guard dogs can be killed, alarms don't bother the smash-and-grab crooks,
burglar bars only slow the squints.

All of these methods are perfectly reasonable ways of making your house a
less desirable target than the one next to it, which is all you really
need to do to prevent break-ins. Crooks (for the most part) aren't
stupid - they'll target the house that looks like it's the least trouble
to get in and out of.

Regards,

George Wenzel
--
George Wenzel, B.A. (Criminology)
E-mail: lid
E-mail address is munged. Instead of dot invalid, use dot net

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

All this talk of dogs and bears... we have a "killer" attack cat... :-))

Yeah, I did too when I was a teenager.

No deterrence for a crim tho, its approach was to lurk
invisibly and savage your ankles as you walked past |-)


She'll only "savage your ankles" when you're wearing special socks. We leave a
pair by the front door with a simple sign that reads: "Now that you've taken
the trouble to break in to our home, please be so kind as to remove your shoes
and pull on these socks. We keep all the expensive jewellery in the laundry
room." Guess where the cat usually sleeps... :-))

Oh, and there were probably far more people who suffered unintentional
firearm-related injuries (aka gunshots) than the number who were killed
unintentionally.

Huh?

"unintentional firearm-related injuries" would be encompassed by the
catagoroy "number who were killed unintentionally" so how could the former
have a higher number than the latter?

Bull****. Say you've got a house with no alarm and
no dog. Want to find out if there's a homeowner
there with a gun? Use foolproof method: RING
THE DOORBELL. If nobody answers, then you
don't have to worry about the "guaranteed burglary
deterrent" being a problem...

What you will have at that point is a house with no gun and a burglar who
has your gun.

Oh, and don't forget that you vastly increase the
chances that you or a family member will get
shot if you decide to keep a loaded weapon in
your house.

What the heck!!! Why, you bleeding heart liberal! How dare you express
concern that some innocent child might get shot. The very nerve. Harrumph.
:^)

Guard dogs can be killed, alarms don't bother the
smash-and-grab crooks, burglar bars only slow the
squints.

All of these methods are perfectly reasonable ways of
making your house a less desirable target than the one
next to it, which is all you really need to do to prevent
break-ins...

Correct. This is like the story of the two hunters. After hiking a few
miles into the woods they spotted a grisly bear bounding toward them from a
long way off. The first hunter sat down and started changing his boots for
tennis shoes. The second said, "You can't outrun a bear in tennis shoes."

The second calmly laced up his sneakers and said, "I only need to outrun
you." :^)

Alarm and Home Automation System FAQ
http://www.bass-home.com/faq/masterfaq/faq.htm

Regards,
Robert

=============================
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
941-232-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1
http://www.bass-home.com
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================

My God! If your familys saftey is a concern...DO NOT USE THIS GROUP FOR
ADVISE OR GIVE OUT ANY INFORMATION. If you deal with someone from this
newsgroup you better keep one eye
open while your sleep at night! this is the worse place to look for info
for your home security. This group is a hive of activity to get your
confidence then rip your off. Get "help" from here and next think your
house is
cleaned out and inexplicably your alarm didnt work......or worse.....
Be very very careful using this group.
Be sure to closely investigate (primarily if you
buy online) any of the online alarm seller, especially if they claim a ASA
certification, a totally false and misleading certification (see that
later). You wouldn't want to buy from someone whose sideline is
understanding your alarm system for the purpose of exploiting it later
byknowing your codes or maintenance access numbers. Be wary of those who do
not have a brick and mortar store.

When I was shopping and using this newsgroup some online dealers advertised
a ASA certification with a picture of a ASA emblem shown on their website.
It gives a good first impression but when you look into it you find out that
it was nothing more then some....guy.... creating a website to supposedly
post complaints, with no entries of complaints or follow-through. It was
analogous to someone flashing a police badge that turns out to be fake. The
ASA moniker is a badge without any accreditation and surely this is
misleading and a scam.

Some of the free advice you get is not because of someone's unselfish need
to make the world a better place to live. Most are giving you advice on the
hope of getting a sale or...."other" information. Listen but don't act on
the advice until you can confirm or gain some trust in the source by
researching them.

Sometimes you can learn a lot about sellers by plugging in email address or
screenname into a Google search of past news postings. You will be
surprised, .....no..MAKE THAT SHOCKED....AND I MEAN SHOCKED!!!!..... at what
you find out about those offering to outfit your alarm. How can our legal
system let these type of people sell home security!!!!!

This is a very unregulated online business, and especially risky for
something as important as YOUR HOME security.

good luck....and go talk to someone reputible.

"John Smith" wrote in message
om...
I am building a new house, and as an almost afterthought, I want to
install
prewiring for an alarm system. I am thinking of just prewiring the system
for
now, and purchase the system/subscription later. The drywall is not up,
so
this should be reasonably easy to do.

System wise, I don't want to commit to a particular system/vendor yet, and
I
want flexibility of choosing from different provider later. I assume that
all
the wires are compatible amongst the many different systems (ie, the three
wires for power, ground, and signal, same gauge requirements, etc)? If
not,
what should I look for?

What can I expect to pay for this? How do I spot a good installer? What
questions do I ask? How many sensors should I install (I am thinking all
the
doors, all the windows, fire, water, smoke, low O2 (is there such thing),
what
else am I missing?)?

Thanks.

It's like the joke about the two hunters in bear country. When one
told the other that he couldn't outrun a bear, the fellow observed
that he didn't have to outrun the bear, he just had to outrun his
buddy. That applies to security in suburbia, too.

Oh, my goodness! I just posted that joke in response to an earlier post in
this thread.

According to the CDC, there were 802 unintentional
firearms deaths in 2001, nationwide. By contrast, there
were 3,923 drownings.

How many drownings does it take to bring back any of the dead shooting
victims?

43,987 deaths by motor vehicles... ban those
THEN talk to me about banning guns.

Who said anything about banning guns?

"unintentional firearm-related injuries" would be encompassed by the
catagoroy "number who were killed unintentionally" so how could the former
have a higher number than the latter?

I think you've got it the wrong way around, Aegis. :^)

Ahh, **** you anyway....

Such debating skill! :^)

Rod Speed wrote in message
...

alarman wrote in
message news:NK_ic.20710$432.2648@fed1read01...
Kukutyin wrote

You don't need prewiring the house. if you are use German Shepherd

You are a fool if you think a dog is the answer to your security needs.

Nope. NOTHING keeps burglar scum away like a decent sized dog.

Dogs are easy to get around.

Same goes for a gun.

Crap. Nothing like it. There is no way for the crim to know that
you have a gun.

Are you really that dense?

I just love it when some idiot says "alarm?
My .357 is the only protection I need."

And you're too stupid to be able to grasp the difference.

:-) Seems you're the one unable to grasp the obvious.
js

Rod Speed wrote
No they'll just taser the dog

Not if he's inside they house they cant.

and he'll fear humans from then on,

Wouldnt happen with mine. Mine did get run over by one of the
neighbour's cars, came around the side of the house looking
pretty hyped up. It was never very clear exactly what happened
to him, no one saw what happened. He was one for chasing cars.

Hilarious watching him whenever that particular car went
down the street after that, he was determined to kill it.

I've seen that happen with a Malmut

Doesnt work with a breed thats got real balls.

Well, now I'm sure of it. You are not only a fool, you're a damned fool.
js

"alarman" wrote in message news:Wsmjc.156$k24.111@fed1read01...

Rod Speed wrote
No they'll just taser the dog

Not if he's inside they house they cant.

and he'll fear humans from then on,

Wouldnt happen with mine. Mine did get run over by one of the
neighbour's cars, came around the side of the house looking
pretty hyped up. It was never very clear exactly what happened
to him, no one saw what happened. He was one for chasing cars.

Hilarious watching him whenever that particular car went
down the street after that, he was determined to kill it.

I've seen that happen with a Malmut

Doesnt work with a breed thats got real balls.

Well, now I'm sure of it. You are not only a fool, you're a damned fool.

Even you should be able to bull**** your way out of
your predicament better than that pathetic effort, fool.

alarman wrote in
message news:Fnmjc.154$k24.82@fed1read01...
Rod Speed wrote
alarman wrote
Kukutyin wrote

You don't need prewiring the house. if you are use German Shepherd

You are a fool if you think a dog is the answer to your security needs.

Nope. NOTHING keeps burglar scum away like a decent sized dog.

Dogs are easy to get around.

Yes, but what matters is that its even easier for
criminal scum to loot someone else's house instead.

Same goes for a gun.

Crap. Nothing like it. There is no way for
the crim to know that you have a gun.

Are you really that dense?

You're obviously that pathetic an excuse for a bull**** artist.

I just love it when some idiot says "alarm?
My .357 is the only protection I need."

And you're too stupid to be able to grasp the difference.

:-) Seems you're the one unable to grasp the obvious.

Pathetic, really.

JerryMouse wrote
alarman wrote:
Kukutyin wrote in message
news
You don't need prewiring the house. if you are use German Shepherd

You are a fool if you think a dog is the answer to your security
needs. Same goes for a gun. I just love it when some idiot says
"alarm? My .357 is the only protection I need."

A homeowner with a pistol (or the fear of a homeowner with a pistol) is
the
only guaranteed burglary deterent.

No. Jeez. I don't wish to be drawn into another endless gun argument with
you. I own guns, and know how to use them. I also know that good physical
security and a properly installed security alarm system are more effective
deterrents. Your gun is just property waiting to be stolen, unless you'll be
there with it 24/7/365.

Guard dogs can be killed, alarms don't
bother the smash-and-grab crooks, burglar bars only slow the squints.

Don't believe me? Put the following sign on your front door:

There are no
GUNS
in this house!

And see how long you last.

Are you trying to make a point? Focus.
js

Rod Speed wrote

Not if you take sensible precautions with the firearms.

This requires that the firearm owner have some sense to begin with. From
what I've read, you have a long way to go, grasshopper.
js

Frank Olson wrote
All this talk of dogs and bears... we have a "killer" attack cat... :-))

I have a new car with a sunroof. Send him over.
js

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


More fool you.

Investigation continues into deadly dog mauling attack

Mindless stuff. That situation is very easy to avoid, most
obviously keeping the dog inside the house when you are out.

I certainly did do that, basically because I wasnt too keen
on what might happen if one of the neighbour's kids came
over the fence to get a ball back while I wasnt home.

The only marginally undesirable event I ever had was with
one of the neighbour's kids that had his own dog. He used
to come over quite a bit and would normally pat the dog as
the first thing he did. I warned him that it wasnt a good idea
to do that if he was chewing on one of his bones, he was
very defensive of his bones. One day the kid did it when the
dog was chewing his bone, got a pretty enthusiastic snarl.
I'd never actually seen someone turn grey in an instant before |-)

He didnt get bitten or anything.

Dogs do interesting things when they drink anti-freeze, read up about it
sometime

Rod Speed wrote
:-) Seems you're the one unable to grasp the obvious.

Pathetic, really.

No need to be so hard on yourself. You just need to grow up a little. Give
it time.
js

Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
alarman desperately attempted
to bull**** its way out of its predicament in message
news:JVmjc.161$k24.132@fed1read01...
and fooled absolutely no one at all. As always.

Try harder, child. You might actually manage to fool someone, sometime.

Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
alarman desperately attempted
to bull**** its way out of its predicament in message
news:xGmjc.159$k24.121@fed1read01...
and fooled absolutely no one at all. As always.

Try harder, child. You might actually manage to fool someone, sometime.

Such an asshole!
now go play with paul you thick ****!
BWAHAHAHA

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
| Someone named "Robert L. Bass" Proclaimed
| on Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:09:45 -0400,
|
| Such debating skill! :^)
|
|
| LOL!
|
|

And you of all people have no room to talk mr. BBB.

"Robert L. Bass" wrote in message
...
| Ahh, **** you anyway....
|
| Such debating skill! :^)
|
|

"George Wenzel" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
says...
I NEVER answer my door unless I am expecting a visitor.

Let me guess: you're an American, right? Land of the free and home of
the brave? You sound neither free nor brave.

and your an American also. What does that have to do with it?

My wife and I are both well-trained in firearms and their use as it
pertains
to home defense (hint: pistol = bad idea). No children by choice.

Good for you. Your chances of being accidentally injured or killed by
that gun are still greater than if it wasn't present.

Hey, if you want to have a gun and consider it "protection", that's your
choice. I'd much rather live in a neighbourhood where I know that none
of my neighbours have guns, and where I find it a pleasant surprise if
one of my neighbours unexpectedly comes over to say hello once in a
while. Of course, I'm Canadian, and I live in a country that thankfully
doesn't have the culture of fear of our southern neighbours.

I wish Canada had the greatest military in the world and everyone was
looking to them to clean everything up in the world, then we could ride your
coattails and be self righteous instead of vice versa. And think how much
lower our taxes would be


Regards,

George Wenzel
--
George Wenzel, B.A. (Criminology)
E-mail: lid
E-mail address is munged. Instead of dot invalid, use dot net

Don't fray George, it's the American way to get involved in everyone else's
business but our own. We're post active, premeditated, down here. Hopefully,
after this guy beats his wife...she'll be trained enough to use that gun on
him. And remember, once she does it, we'll spend more money housing her in a
safe place, with 3 hots and cot, for the rest of her life. No country spends
more money encouraging crime than the US. A gun is just a tool a few of us
feel lightens the load on judicial spending.

Jack

"George Wenzel" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
says...
I NEVER answer my door unless I am expecting a visitor.

Let me guess: you're an American, right? Land of the free and home of
the brave? You sound neither free nor brave.

My wife and I are both well-trained in firearms and their use as it
pertains
to home defense (hint: pistol = bad idea). No children by choice.

Good for you. Your chances of being accidentally injured or killed by
that gun are still greater than if it wasn't present.

Hey, if you want to have a gun and consider it "protection", that's your
choice. I'd much rather live in a neighbourhood where I know that none
of my neighbours have guns, and where I find it a pleasant surprise if
one of my neighbours unexpectedly comes over to say hello once in a
while. Of course, I'm Canadian, and I live in a country that thankfully
doesn't have the culture of fear of our southern neighbours.

Regards,

George Wenzel
--
George Wenzel, B.A. (Criminology)
E-mail: lid
E-mail address is munged. Instead of dot invalid, use dot net

No, but don't kid yourself, the rate of firearms ownership in Canada is just
as great as the USA (overall). And that is a fact ! However, the big
difference up here is that firearms are kept and used for a multitude of
legitimate purposes; however, self defence is NOT one of them!! Also
speaking as a Canadian, I too am thankful that (so far) our culture doesn't
instill the fear level that drives people in the US to keep firearms for
self defence. In addition, the rate of ownership of "restricted firearms"
such as handguns is no where near as great as in the US....we have about 1
million handguns in our country (legal ones that is...no one knows how many
illegal ones come in...), and the remainder are sporting long guns such as
rifles and shotguns. We do have good laws that mandate safe ownership and
storage left over from the next to last revision of the Criminal Code. But I
certainly don't rest easier in any fashion whether my neighbour owns a gun
or not ! That has little to do with anything !

However, since the latest shooting massacre in Montreal and the resulting
latest changes, we now are blessed with some of the most atrocious new gun
laws that exist anywhere; they boggle the mind with their complexity and the
resultant inability to follow them legally even if you want to (speaking
from much personal experience..). And having gone up to a billion dollars in
program costs (and still climbing), one has to ask whether this is the best
expenditure of that much money (and that goes whether you are a gun hater or
a gun lover frankly...)

If you are a criminologist, you know the issue is much more complicated than
mere availability; a lot of it is mired in social and cultural issues
stemming back to the history of the development of each country.

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

"George Wenzel" wrote in message
. ..

Hey, if you want to have a gun and consider it "protection", that's your
choice. I'd much rather live in a neighbourhood where I know that none
of my neighbours have guns, and where I find it a pleasant surprise if
one of my neighbours unexpectedly comes over to say hello once in a
while. Of course, I'm Canadian, and I live in a country that thankfully
doesn't have the culture of fear of our southern neighbours.

Regards,

George Wenzel

George Wenzel, B.A. (Criminology)
E-mail: lid
E-mail address is munged. Instead of dot invalid, use dot net

George Wenzel wrote in
message . ..
says...

I NEVER answer my door unless I am expecting a visitor.

Let me guess: you're an American, right? Land of the free
and home of the brave? You sound neither free nor brave.

Or he is indeed free to choose not to bother wth intinerant salesfools,
individuals that cant manage to work out which particular property
whose door they are knocking on, and isnt interested in the neighbours.

His choice.

My wife and I are both well-trained in firearms and their use as it
pertains to home defense (hint: pistol = bad idea). No children by choice.

Good for you. Your chances of being accidentally injured
or killed by that gun are still greater than if it wasn't present.

Just as true of anything else in that house, including
kitchen knives, cats, dogs, chairs, etc etc etc.

Its easy enough for anyone with a clue to eliminate any risk.

Hey, if you want to have a gun and
consider it "protection", that's your choice.

It is indeed.

I'd much rather live in a neighbourhood where
I know that none of my neighbours have guns,

You can never know that unless you 'live' in a police
state that searches all propertys weekly etc.

and where I find it a pleasant surprise if one of my neighbours
unexpectedly comes over to say hello once in a while.

Sure, but its his choice to not bother with them.

Of course, I'm Canadian, and I live in a country that thankfully
doesn't have the culture of fear of our southern neighbours.

Your problem.

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:03:45 -0400, "Robert L. Bass"
wrote:

It's like the joke about the two hunters in bear country. When one
told the other that he couldn't outrun a bear, the fellow observed
that he didn't have to outrun the bear, he just had to outrun his
buddy. That applies to security in suburbia, too.

Oh, my goodness! I just posted that joke in response to an earlier post in
this thread.

Shows how widespread a) the concept is and b) the joke is. I like
that joke a lot.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

In article , says...
According to the CDC, there were 802 unintentional firearms deaths
in 2001, nationwide. By contrast, there were 3,923 drownings.

Problem is, if a burglar breaks in, takes your gun, and kills you with
it, it's not considered an "unintentional firearms death". It's
considered a homicide. There were definitely more than 802 gun-related
homicides in the USA in 2001.

Kind of puts a hole in the "more likely to kill you kid or his friends"
argument,
though. I haven't been able to find a statistic for people killed by
their own
gun, yet, but I suspect that the number is vanishingly small.

Oh, and there were probably far more people who suffered unintentional
firearm-related injuries (aka gunshots) than the number who were killed
unintentionally.

True, but people are injured by all sorts of odd things, including stairs,
bathtubs, and bowling balls and ball-point pens. I can't get this
Microsoft
peice of crap to launch Acrobat Reader for some reason, so at the moment,
I can't get at the CDC statistics, but the bottom line is that guns simply
aren't particularly dangerous _to_their_owners_, and what danger there is
goes down dramatically with the application of a little common sense.

And anyone who tells you different is underinformed, dishonest, or both.

--Goedjn

Oh, my goodness! I just posted that joke in response
to an earlier post in this thread.

Shows how widespread a) the concept is and b) the
joke is. I like that joke a lot.

Yep. It's funny but it also says a lot.

George Wenzel wrote

Good for you. Your chances of being accidentally injured or killed by
that gun are still greater than if it wasn't present.

My chance of sawing my leg off are dramatically increased by possessing the
chainsaw I use for tree trimming, and I am much more likely to be in an
automobile accident since I own four motor vehicles. What is your point?


js

Rod Speed wrote in message
...
Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
alarman desperately attempted
to bull**** its way out of its predicament in message
news:xGmjc.159$k24.121@fed1read01...
and fooled absolutely no one at all. As always.

Try harder, child. You might actually manage to fool someone, sometime.

Best you can do, huh?
Everyone here knows who I am. Jack Stevens, Spring Valley, CA. I'm listed,
so step on up.
js

Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
alarman desperately attempted
to bull**** its way out of its predicament in message
news:xeCjc.843$k24.728@fed1read01...
and fooled absolutely no one at all. As always.

Try harder, child. You might actually manage to fool someone, sometime.

Rod Speed wrote in message
...
Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
alarman desperately attempted
to bull**** its way out of its predicament in message
news:xeCjc.843$k24.728@fed1read01...
and fooled absolutely no one at all. As always.

Try harder, child. You might actually manage to fool someone, sometime.

Your turn.
js