I am leasing an older home. Some of the outlets have the 3-prong
grounding outlet and many have just the two-prong which we use
adapters on. Can the regular two-prong outlets be replaced with
3-prong without rewiring the home? Thanks

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:56:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I am leasing an older home. Some of the outlets have the 3-prong
grounding outlet and many have just the two-prong which we use
adapters on. Can the regular two-prong outlets be replaced with
3-prong without rewiring the home? Thanks

It depends.

If a ground wire is present at the location of the 2 prong receptacles, then
you can replace them on an individual basis and attach the ground wire to
the ground screw of the 3 prong receptacle.

If there is no ground wire present at the receptacle box, then you can
install a GFCI receptacle in (hopefully) the first receptacle location
of each branch circuit and then attach the downstream 3 prong receptacles
to the load side of the GFCI. The downstream receptacles will not suddenly
be grounded, but the user will be protected from shocks should they (the user)
become a path to ground. The receptacles should be labeled to note that there
is No Equipment Ground present.

Alternatively, a GFCI breaker could be installed for each branch circuit
and then 3 prong receptacles could be installed everywhere. That is probably
a more expensive option and may not be as convenient. There may also be cases
where you don't want an entire branch circuit to be GFCI protected.

This is just one of many articles that discusses the situation:

http://ecmweb.com/content/replacing-...ed-receptacles

BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:56:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I am leasing an older home. Some of the outlets have the 3-prong
grounding outlet and many have just the two-prong which we use
adapters on. Can the regular two-prong outlets be replaced with
3-prong without rewiring the home? Thanks

If it's a two prong, ie no ground receptacle in an older home then there
is almost certainly no ground. You can't just replace it with a 3 prong,
ground type, but you can replace it with a three prong,
ground type receptacle if you install a GFCI and mark the receptacle
as GFCI protected, no eqpt ground. A GFCI breaker will protect all the
receptacles on the circuit. A GFCI receptacle will protect itself and
any other receptacles that are downstream of it and connected to the load
side of the GFCI. Those downstream receptacles may then be replaced
with 3 prong, ground type and marked as described.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:13:58 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:


BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.

That's a very good point and suggestion. The existing ones may have
been installed incorrectly at some point, with no ground present,
by someone who didn't know what they were doing.

On 9/12/2016 10:16 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:56:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I am leasing an older home. Some of the outlets have the 3-prong
grounding outlet and many have just the two-prong which we use
adapters on. Can the regular two-prong outlets be replaced with
3-prong without rewiring the home? Thanks

If it's a two prong, ie no ground receptacle in an older home then there
is almost certainly no ground.

I don't know about "almost certainly", but I have seen homes with two
prong outlets where the boxes did have ground wires.

Also, at some point in the past a metal conduit sometimes served as the
ground "wire".


The use of a tester is a good suggestion.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:16:43 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:56:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I am leasing an older home. Some of the outlets have the 3-prong
grounding outlet and many have just the two-prong which we use
adapters on. Can the regular two-prong outlets be replaced with
3-prong without rewiring the home? Thanks

If it's a two prong, ie no ground receptacle in an older home then there
is almost certainly no ground.

I know you said "almost certainly" no ground so you are not wrong, but it
should still be brought into the conversation. I speak from experience.

My house house was built in 1956. Except for the family room addition,
all receptacles were 2 prong. The 2nd floor was wired with 14/2 w/o ground
(cloth covered wire). However, the 1st floor was wired with 14/2 *with*
ground (also cloth covered wire) and the ground wire was attached to the
box. I was able to simply replace the 2 prong receptacles with 3 prong
receptacles and a pigtail back to the box.

That is why I mentioned it to the OP. Situations like that do exist.

On 9/12/2016 10:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:16:43 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:56:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I am leasing an older home. Some of the outlets have the 3-prong
grounding outlet and many have just the two-prong which we use
adapters on. Can the regular two-prong outlets be replaced with
3-prong without rewiring the home? Thanks

If it's a two prong, ie no ground receptacle in an older home then there
is almost certainly no ground.

I know you said "almost certainly" no ground so you are not wrong, but it
should still be brought into the conversation. I speak from experience.

My house house was built in 1956. Except for the family room addition,
all receptacles were 2 prong. The 2nd floor was wired with 14/2 w/o ground
(cloth covered wire). However, the 1st floor was wired with 14/2 *with*
ground (also cloth covered wire) and the ground wire was attached to the
box. I was able to simply replace the 2 prong receptacles with 3 prong
receptacles and a pigtail back to the box.

That is why I mentioned it to the OP. Situations like that do exist.


makes you wonder why upstairs and downstairs differ.

On 09/12/2016 12:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.


Some danger, especially in places where someone may be wet. There's no
more danger than when using adapters with no ground.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:38:06 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:16:43 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:56:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I am leasing an older home. Some of the outlets have the 3-prong
grounding outlet and many have just the two-prong which we use
adapters on. Can the regular two-prong outlets be replaced with
3-prong without rewiring the home? Thanks

If it's a two prong, ie no ground receptacle in an older home then there
is almost certainly no ground.

I know you said "almost certainly" no ground so you are not wrong, but it
should still be brought into the conversation. I speak from experience.

My house house was built in 1956. Except for the family room addition,
all receptacles were 2 prong. The 2nd floor was wired with 14/2 w/o ground
(cloth covered wire). However, the 1st floor was wired with 14/2 *with*
ground (also cloth covered wire) and the ground wire was attached to the
box. I was able to simply replace the 2 prong receptacles with 3 prong
receptacles and a pigtail back to the box.

That is why I mentioned it to the OP. Situations like that do exist.

"very likely" would have been a better choice of words than "almost certainly".

On 09/12/2016 12:24 PM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

That's a very good point and suggestion. The existing ones may have
been installed incorrectly at some point, with no ground present,
by someone who didn't know what they were doing.



Or by someone who DOES know what he's doing. He wants to be able to plug
in 3-prong plugs.

Or, maybe those receptacles need replacing and 2-prong receptacles are
getting hard to find.

On 09/12/2016 12:16 PM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

You can't just replace it with a 3 prong, ground type,

The fact that it has been done disproves that rule.

BTW, I didn't say it was safe. NOTHING is perfectly safe.

[snip]

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:48:53 PM UTC-4, Sam E wrote:
On 09/12/2016 12:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.


Some danger, especially in places where someone may be wet. There's no
more danger than when using adapters with no ground.

There definitely could be more danger. When you're using an adaptor
and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground,
or should know it. When someone puts a ground type receptacle in
with no ground, then it appears to everyone to be a grounded type.
If you were somewhere on a damp basement or garage floor and saw a
ground type receptacle, and had a tool, an extension cord with ground
what would most people think and do?

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:43:07 PM UTC-4, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/12/2016 10:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:16:43 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:56:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I am leasing an older home. Some of the outlets have the 3-prong
grounding outlet and many have just the two-prong which we use
adapters on. Can the regular two-prong outlets be replaced with
3-prong without rewiring the home? Thanks

If it's a two prong, ie no ground receptacle in an older home then there
is almost certainly no ground.

I know you said "almost certainly" no ground so you are not wrong, but it
should still be brought into the conversation. I speak from experience.

My house house was built in 1956. Except for the family room addition,
all receptacles were 2 prong. The 2nd floor was wired with 14/2 w/o ground
(cloth covered wire). However, the 1st floor was wired with 14/2 *with*
ground (also cloth covered wire) and the ground wire was attached to the
box. I was able to simply replace the 2 prong receptacles with 3 prong
receptacles and a pigtail back to the box.

That is why I mentioned it to the OP. Situations like that do exist.


makes you wonder why upstairs and downstairs differ.

Always has. :-)

I've also always wondered why they used *one* Edison circuit to apparently
save about 15 feet of wire. They ran a length of 14/3 w/ground from the
panel to a junction box about 15' away in the basement ceiling. From there
they ran 2 lengths of 14/2 w/ground to create 2 runs of receptacles on the
first floor. It's the only Edison circuit in the house and all they saved
was one junction box and a couple of lengths of 14/2 w/ground.

Considering how well the rest of the house was built (1x6 T&G subfloors
and roof deck, 3/4" thick interior walls (3/8" gypsum board and 3/8"
plaster), hardwood floors, etc.) I'm surprised they did those weird things
with the electrical.

I can only assume that they used what they had on hand and made it work.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:51:24 PM UTC-4, Sam E wrote:
On 09/12/2016 12:24 PM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

That's a very good point and suggestion. The existing ones may have
been installed incorrectly at some point, with no ground present,
by someone who didn't know what they were doing.



Or by someone who DOES know what he's doing. He wants to be able to plug
in 3-prong plugs.


Well, I guess that depends on your definition of "knows what he's doing".
In my world, someone who violates code with a stupid and unsafe practice
doesn't know what they are doing. But I guess you have a point, there
are some people who know what they are doing is wrong, a code violation,
unsafe, etc. but just don't care.


Or, maybe those receptacles need replacing and 2-prong receptacles are
getting hard to find.

No problem finding them here, HD for example has them. And even if
they were hard to find and you decide to just replace it with a
grounded type and nothing more, then
IMO, you still don't know what you're doing, because it's easy to do
it right and code compliant.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:53:53 PM UTC-4, notX wrote:
On 09/12/2016 12:16 PM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

You can't just replace it with a 3 prong, ground type,

The fact that it has been done disproves that rule.


Have the idiots take over? When someone comes here and asks a basic
question, isn't the assumption that they want to do it right, to
make it safe and code compliant? Do I have to start off by saying,
well you can do the job with a switched neutral, you can put a
receptacle next to a sink without it being GFCI, you can wire that
circuit with no breaker or fuse, but "it would wrong, a code violation,
etc? WTF?



BTW, I didn't say it was safe. NOTHING is perfectly safe.

[snip]

Which of course is irrelevant. DerbyDad and I gave the right answer,
now run along.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:55:59 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:48:53 PM UTC-4, Sam E wrote:
On 09/12/2016 12:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.


Some danger, especially in places where someone may be wet. There's no
more danger than when using adapters with no ground.

There definitely could be more danger. When you're using an adaptor
and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground,
or should know it. When someone puts a ground type receptacle in
with no ground, then it appears to everyone to be a grounded type.
If you were somewhere on a damp basement or garage floor and saw a
ground type receptacle, and had a tool, an extension cord with ground
what would most people think and do?

You are assuming that the user knows about electricity. I can "almost
certainly" guarantee that I could find someone - without looking very
hard - that has no clue why an adapter exists other than to let you
plug a 3 prong plug into a 2 prong receptacle. "Oh look, isn't that
convenient".

I'll bet if you asked them what the little screw lug is for they would
say "So it doesn't fall out." ;-)

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:12:15 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:55:59 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:48:53 PM UTC-4, Sam E wrote:
On 09/12/2016 12:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.


Some danger, especially in places where someone may be wet. There's no
more danger than when using adapters with no ground.

There definitely could be more danger. When you're using an adaptor
and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground,
or should know it. When someone puts a ground type receptacle in
with no ground, then it appears to everyone to be a grounded type.
If you were somewhere on a damp basement or garage floor and saw a
ground type receptacle, and had a tool, an extension cord with ground
what would most people think and do?

You are assuming that the user knows about electricity. I can "almost
certainly" guarantee that I could find someone - without looking very
hard - that has no clue why an adapter exists other than to let you
plug a 3 prong plug into a 2 prong receptacle. "Oh look, isn't that
convenient".


No, I never made that assumption. I specifically said:

"When you're using an adapter and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground, or should know it. "

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:12:15 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:55:59 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:48:53 PM UTC-4, Sam E wrote:
On 09/12/2016 12:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.


Some danger, especially in places where someone may be wet. There's no
more danger than when using adapters with no ground.

There definitely could be more danger. When you're using an adaptor
and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground,
or should know it. When someone puts a ground type receptacle in
with no ground, then it appears to everyone to be a grounded type.
If you were somewhere on a damp basement or garage floor and saw a
ground type receptacle, and had a tool, an extension cord with ground
what would most people think and do?

You are assuming that the user knows about electricity. I can "almost
certainly" guarantee that I could find someone - without looking very
hard - that has no clue why an adapter exists other than to let you
plug a 3 prong plug into a 2 prong receptacle. "Oh look, isn't that
convenient".

I'll bet if you asked them what the little screw lug is for they would
say "So it doesn't fall out." ;-)

....and I'll bet there is a group of people that have half a clue and
assume that the ground lug on the adapter automatically provides a ground
if it is attached the receptacle cover screw. It *might* (like it would
have on the 1st floor of my house) but it's certainly not true in (probably) most cases (like the 2nd floor of my house).

DerbyDad03 wrote:
You are assuming that the user knows about electricity. I can "almost
certainly" guarantee that I could find someone - without looking very
hard - that has no clue why an adapter exists other than to let you
plug a 3 prong plug into a 2 prong receptacle. "Oh look, isn't that
convenient".

Seriously, I think that's the majority.... and I suspect that's the most
popular usage! : )

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:14:49 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:12:15 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:55:59 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:48:53 PM UTC-4, Sam E wrote:
On 09/12/2016 12:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.


Some danger, especially in places where someone may be wet. There's no
more danger than when using adapters with no ground.

There definitely could be more danger. When you're using an adaptor
and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground,
or should know it. When someone puts a ground type receptacle in
with no ground, then it appears to everyone to be a grounded type.
If you were somewhere on a damp basement or garage floor and saw a
ground type receptacle, and had a tool, an extension cord with ground
what would most people think and do?

You are assuming that the user knows about electricity. I can "almost
certainly" guarantee that I could find someone - without looking very
hard - that has no clue why an adapter exists other than to let you
plug a 3 prong plug into a 2 prong receptacle. "Oh look, isn't that
convenient".


No, I never made that assumption. I specifically said:

"When you're using an adapter and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground, or should know it. "

I was referring to all the other people who have no clue, not the original
"installer". There are lots of people who never even *think* about
the presence of a ground when they see a 3 prong receptacle or adapter.

They just "plug and play".

P.S. I'm not arguing with you - even if it sounds that way. Just making a
clarifying point.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:24:58 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:14:49 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:12:15 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:55:59 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:48:53 PM UTC-4, Sam E wrote:
On 09/12/2016 12:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.


Some danger, especially in places where someone may be wet. There's no
more danger than when using adapters with no ground.

There definitely could be more danger. When you're using an adaptor
and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground,
or should know it. When someone puts a ground type receptacle in
with no ground, then it appears to everyone to be a grounded type.
If you were somewhere on a damp basement or garage floor and saw a
ground type receptacle, and had a tool, an extension cord with ground
what would most people think and do?

You are assuming that the user knows about electricity. I can "almost
certainly" guarantee that I could find someone - without looking very
hard - that has no clue why an adapter exists other than to let you
plug a 3 prong plug into a 2 prong receptacle. "Oh look, isn't that
convenient".


No, I never made that assumption. I specifically said:

"When you're using an adapter and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground, or should know it. "

I was referring to all the other people who have no clue, not the original
"installer". There are lots of people who never even *think* about
the presence of a ground when they see a 3 prong receptacle or adapter.


And I was also referring to people other than the original installer
who decide to use an adapter and not ground it. Either they know
using the adapter that way leaves whatever is plugged into it
ungrounded or they should know it. When you're using something you
should know what it is and how it works.


They just "plug and play".

I'm sure there are plenty of people like that. I suppose they should
sell those adapters packaged so there is a warning on them, or putting
a warning tag on them would be a good idea. Actually IDK how they
are packaged and sold, haven't bought one in decades.



P.S. I'm not arguing with you - even if it sounds that way. Just making a
clarifying point.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:38:11 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:24:58 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:14:49 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:12:15 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:55:59 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:48:53 PM UTC-4, Sam E wrote:
On 09/12/2016 12:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.


Some danger, especially in places where someone may be wet. There's no
more danger than when using adapters with no ground.

There definitely could be more danger. When you're using an adaptor
and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground,
or should know it. When someone puts a ground type receptacle in
with no ground, then it appears to everyone to be a grounded type.
If you were somewhere on a damp basement or garage floor and saw a
ground type receptacle, and had a tool, an extension cord with ground
what would most people think and do?

You are assuming that the user knows about electricity. I can "almost
certainly" guarantee that I could find someone - without looking very
hard - that has no clue why an adapter exists other than to let you
plug a 3 prong plug into a 2 prong receptacle. "Oh look, isn't that
convenient".


No, I never made that assumption. I specifically said:

"When you're using an adapter and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground, or should know it. "

I was referring to all the other people who have no clue, not the original
"installer". There are lots of people who never even *think* about
the presence of a ground when they see a 3 prong receptacle or adapter.


And I was also referring to people other than the original installer
who decide to use an adapter and not ground it. Either they know
using the adapter that way leaves whatever is plugged into it
ungrounded or they should know it. When you're using something you
should know what it is and how it works.


They just "plug and play".

I'm sure there are plenty of people like that. I suppose they should
sell those adapters packaged so there is a warning on them, or putting
a warning tag on them would be a good idea. Actually IDK how they
are packaged and sold, haven't bought one in decades.


Just for fun, I went looking for an image of the packaging for an adapter.
I didn't find a package (didn't look too hard), but I did find this rather
scary image:

http://i.stack.imgur.com/jTqrx.jpg

Is it just me or are they showing the ground lug being attached to the
cover screw of a receptacle where no ground is present?

I clicked on the "Visit Page" button at G-images, and it took me to the
following discussion. The OP is exactly the type of person I was referring
to: He notes that the adapters are "handy" but he has no clue about their
proper usage.

http://diy.stackexchange.com/questio...-prong-adapter

On 09/12/2016 1:37 PM, trader_4 wrote:
....

... When you're using something you
should know what it is and how it works.

As a general statement, that's simply unrealizable...a very large
majority of people (and many of those are quite intelligent and
reasonably knowledgeable) don't know how many of the objects they use
daily and mostly, competently, actually "work". It simply isn't a
prerequisite.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:52:12 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:38:11 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:24:58 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:14:49 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:12:15 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:55:59 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:48:53 PM UTC-4, Sam E wrote:
On 09/12/2016 12:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.


Some danger, especially in places where someone may be wet. There's no
more danger than when using adapters with no ground.

There definitely could be more danger. When you're using an adaptor
and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground,
or should know it. When someone puts a ground type receptacle in
with no ground, then it appears to everyone to be a grounded type.
If you were somewhere on a damp basement or garage floor and saw a
ground type receptacle, and had a tool, an extension cord with ground
what would most people think and do?

You are assuming that the user knows about electricity. I can "almost
certainly" guarantee that I could find someone - without looking very
hard - that has no clue why an adapter exists other than to let you
plug a 3 prong plug into a 2 prong receptacle. "Oh look, isn't that
convenient".


No, I never made that assumption. I specifically said:

"When you're using an adapter and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground, or should know it. "

I was referring to all the other people who have no clue, not the original
"installer". There are lots of people who never even *think* about
the presence of a ground when they see a 3 prong receptacle or adapter.

"DerbyDad03" wrote

| If a ground wire is present at the location of the 2 prong receptacles,
then
| you can replace them on an individual basis and attach the ground wire to
| the ground screw of the 3 prong receptacle.
|

Also, if the wiring is grounded BX cable, the outlet
will be grounded by screwing it to the metal box.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 3:20:16 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 09/12/2016 1:37 PM, trader_4 wrote:
...

... When you're using something you
should know what it is and how it works.

As a general statement, that's simply unrealizable...a very large
majority of people (and many of those are quite intelligent and
reasonably knowledgeable) don't know how many of the objects they use
daily and mostly, competently, actually "work". It simply isn't a
prerequisite.

It's how I live my life, it's worked very well for me. How others
choose to live their lives, is of course, up to them. A good recent
example is the guy with the Tesla car in Florida. He was so proud
of the autopilot feature, he even made a youtube video of it. A few
months later, he was killed when the car drove itself into the side
of a tractor trailer. Had he spent the time understanding how it
works, what it's limitations are, he'd likely be alive today.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 3:31:31 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:52:12 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:38:11 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:24:58 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:14:49 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:12:15 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:55:59 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:48:53 PM UTC-4, Sam E wrote:
On 09/12/2016 12:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.


Some danger, especially in places where someone may be wet. There's no
more danger than when using adapters with no ground.

There definitely could be more danger. When you're using an adaptor
and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground,
or should know it. When someone puts a ground type receptacle in
with no ground, then it appears to everyone to be a grounded type.
If you were somewhere on a damp basement or garage floor and saw a
ground type receptacle, and had a tool, an extension cord with ground
what would most people think and do?

You are assuming that the user knows about electricity. I can "almost
certainly" guarantee that I could find someone - without looking very
hard - that has no clue why an adapter exists other than to let you
plug a 3 prong plug into a 2 prong receptacle. "Oh look, isn't that
convenient".


No, I never made that assumption. I specifically said:

"When you're using an adapter and don't care about the lack of ground, you know there is no ground, or should know it. "

I was referring to all the other people who have no clue, not the original
"installer". There are lots of people who never even *think* about
the presence of a ground when they see a 3 prong receptacle or adapter.


And I was also referring to people other than the original installer
who decide to use an adapter and not ground it. Either they know
using the adapter that way leaves whatever is plugged into it
ungrounded or they should know it. When you're using something you
should know what it is and how it works.


They just "plug and play".

I'm sure there are plenty of people like that. I suppose they should
sell those adapters packaged so there is a warning on them, or putting
a warning tag on them would be a good idea. Actually IDK how they
are packaged and sold, haven't bought one in decades.


Just for fun, I went looking for an image of the packaging for an adapter.
I didn't find a package (didn't look too hard), but I did find this rather
scary image:

http://i.stack.imgur.com/jTqrx.jpg

Is it just me or are they showing the ground lug being attached to the
cover screw of a receptacle where no ground is present?

There might be a ground present, but they are doing a disservice by
not clearly showing what's there if that's what they meant. The only
way it would be grounded would be if that cable is type AC and the
cable sheath is the ground. It's clear there is no ground wire
coming out of the cable, but it's not clear if it's AC type cable
because you can't see the cable well, nor the connector fastening it.
Further down that thread, they show it again and show the cable
sheath as the ground path. But that pic by itself is very misleading
at best.




I clicked on the "Visit Page" button at G-images, and it took me to the
following discussion. The OP is exactly the type of person I was referring
to: He notes that the adapters are "handy" but he has no clue about their
proper usage.

http://diy.stackexchange.com/questio...-prong-adapter

All kinds of stuff going on there. The only answer I like is this one:


"Plausible deniability. I've always regarded these adapters as a 2-to-3-prong converter, rather than a proper grounding mechanism, and here's why:

In every outlet I've encountered without a third (ground) prong, there is no ground wire. Sometimes (my parents' house) there is, but for whatever reason the ground wire is cut off and unused. Thus, the electrical box itself isn't even grounded.

The screw holding the face plate on is electrically connected to the outlet box, and if it's not grounded, then there's not much point in using the screw holding the face plate on as a ground.

The companies who make these grounding adapters probably also know this, but they can't really get away with providing 2-to-3-prong adapter without providing some way to still connect ground. So they provide a way to connect it to something that should be grounded, but often isn't. In this way, it's not their fault if something bad happens because your house wiring is faulty.

If you do happen to have a 2-prong outlet in a properly grounded box, then the little ground tab or wire will actually provide ground continuity, as intended.

So, the answer is that the grounding tab is meant as a way to connect electrically to something that in turn should be grounded (but might not be). It's not meant as a secure attachment mechanism, though it may seem that way because of the use of a faceplate screw."

I did see that answer but I'm surprised that he didn't say one more thing:

He said:

"If you do happen to have a 2-prong outlet in a properly grounded box, then
the little ground tab or wire will actually provide ground continuity, as
intended."

He should have added:

"However, if you do happen to have a 2-prong outlet in a properly grounded
box, then the better solution is to install a 3-prong receptacle and throw
the adapter in the **** can."

That's what I would have said...more or less.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 3:42:24 PM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote

| If a ground wire is present at the location of the 2 prong receptacles,
then
| you can replace them on an individual basis and attach the ground wire to
| the ground screw of the 3 prong receptacle.
|

Also, if the wiring is grounded BX cable, the outlet
will be grounded by screwing it to the metal box.

And now we get to the finer points. This is an old house, so presumably
it's old BX. In the days of old, BX did not have the bare bonding wire
in it that it has today. So, the house in question here probably doesn't
have the newer BX either. In which case, I would think it's probably
not code compliant to rely on the old BX sheath without the bonding wire
as a ground. Meaning that if you want it to be code compliant, the only
way to upgrade to a grounded receptacle in that situation, is to either
use a GFCI or to rewire the circuit with a ground.

Gfre?

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 4:09:32 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 3:42:24 PM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote

| If a ground wire is present at the location of the 2 prong receptacles,
then
| you can replace them on an individual basis and attach the ground wire to
| the ground screw of the 3 prong receptacle.
|

Also, if the wiring is grounded BX cable, the outlet
will be grounded by screwing it to the metal box.

And now we get to the finer points. This is an old house, so presumably
it's old BX. In the days of old, BX did not have the bare bonding wire
in it that it has today. So, the house in question here probably doesn't
have the newer BX either. In which case, I would think it's probably
not code compliant to rely on the old BX sheath without the bonding wire
as a ground. Meaning that if you want it to be code compliant, the only
way to upgrade to a grounded receptacle in that situation, is to either
use a GFCI or to rewire the circuit with a ground.

Gfre?

OK, I have to pick some nits he

Nit #1:

"This is an old house..."

The OP said "I am leasing an older home." Older than what? Is a 20 YO
house an "older home"? Compared to new construction, yes. A 40 YO house
could be considered an "older home" to someone in his 20's.

I would not presume BX until the OP told us what type of wiring he had,
regardless of the age of the house. Heck for all we know, it's a really
"older home" with K&T. ;-)

Nit #2:

"...the only way to upgrade to a grounded receptacle in that situation, is
to either use a GFCI or to rewire the circuit with a ground."

The use of a GFCI will not result in an "upgrade to a grounded receptacle".
It will allow for an "upgrade to a 3 prong receptacle" but nothing more.

(I know you know that, I'm just trying to be clear so there is no confusion,
especially if the OP actually comes back and reads these responses.)

"DerbyDad03" wrote

| Nit #1:
|

You could save your nits if you'd just filter out
Trader_4. He always knows just enough to
confuse things, and *always* wants to tell that
partial knowledge.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 4:32:28 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 4:09:32 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 3:42:24 PM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote

| If a ground wire is present at the location of the 2 prong receptacles,
then
| you can replace them on an individual basis and attach the ground wire to
| the ground screw of the 3 prong receptacle.
|

Also, if the wiring is grounded BX cable, the outlet
will be grounded by screwing it to the metal box.

And now we get to the finer points. This is an old house, so presumably
it's old BX. In the days of old, BX did not have the bare bonding wire
in it that it has today. So, the house in question here probably doesn't
have the newer BX either. In which case, I would think it's probably
not code compliant to rely on the old BX sheath without the bonding wire
as a ground. Meaning that if you want it to be code compliant, the only
way to upgrade to a grounded receptacle in that situation, is to either
use a GFCI or to rewire the circuit with a ground.

Gfre?

OK, I have to pick some nits he

Nit #1:

"This is an old house..."

The OP said "I am leasing an older home." Older than what? Is a 20 YO
house an "older home"? Compared to new construction, yes. A 40 YO house
could be considered an "older home" to someone in his 20's.

I would not presume BX until the OP told us what type of wiring he had,
regardless of the age of the house. Heck for all we know, it's a really
"older home" with K&T. ;-)


I didn't presume anything. I gave the answer as to what to do in my
first post. It was Mayayana who brought up BX and said that if that
was present you could use it as the source for the new ground.
I simply brought up the question of whether you can do that regardless
of what kind of BX it is or not. Old BX does not have the bonding
wire that new BX does. You can't use old BX to install a new grounded
circuit because it's not a sufficient, approved ground. I would think
that means that you can't use it as a ground to upgrade an old
ungrounded receptacle to a new one that is grounded. I tossed that
question out for Gfre if he cares.

Now you can go argue with Mayayana about how old is old, etc. Since
it has ungrounded receptacles, that puts it circa 50+ years old,
which is old enough that if it has BX, it's BX that's old enough
that my point is valid. Next I suppose you'll be arguing that it's
possible the village idiot wired the house only ten years go somewhere
that doesn't follow NEC or where there are no inspections required,
so I have to cover that possibility too.



Nit #2:

"...the only way to upgrade to a grounded receptacle in that situation, is
to either use a GFCI or to rewire the circuit with a ground."

The use of a GFCI will not result in an "upgrade to a grounded receptacle".
It will allow for an "upgrade to a 3 prong receptacle" but nothing more.

(I know you know that, I'm just trying to be clear so there is no confusion,
especially if the OP actually comes back and reads these responses.)

Yes, I agree but I made that abundantly clear in my very first post.

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 5:57:55 PM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote

| Nit #1:
|

You could save your nits if you'd just filter out
Trader_4. He always knows just enough to
confuse things, and *always* wants to tell that
partial knowledge.

Excuse me, you just told the OP that if in his old house he has
BX cable, he can use that as the ground and go ahead and put in
grounded receptacles. I don't believe that is code compliant
for the reason I stated. I tossed the question out to Gfre.
I think it's better we have an accurate and code compliant answer.
I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong, but I know the question is legitimate.
If you don't like that you can just go **** yourself.
How's that? Still ****ed off because you were wrong when
you told everyone that a 32 bit architecture CPU can't address
or use more than 4GB of memory and I corrected that, pointing
out that Pentium II and beyond can address 64GB?

And I'd point out that in this case I gave the correct answer to
the OP in my first post. Did you give a correct answer saying that
you can use an old BX ground without the internal bonding strip
to install a grounded receptacle where one doesn't exist today?
Maybe Gfre will weigh in. I know my answer was code compliant,
are you sure about yours? As sure as you were about 32 bit CPUs?

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 00:12:05 +0100, Tony944 wrote:



"James Wilkinson" wrote in message news
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 19:11:56 +0100, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:53:53 PM UTC-4, notX wrote:
On 09/12/2016 12:16 PM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

You can't just replace it with a 3 prong, ground type,

The fact that it has been done disproves that rule.


Have the idiots take over? When someone comes here and asks a basic
question, isn't the assumption that they want to do it right, to
make it safe and code compliant? Do I have to start off by saying,
well you can do the job with a switched neutral, you can put a
receptacle next to a sink without it being GFCI, you can wire that
circuit with no breaker or fuse, but "it would wrong, a code violation,
etc? WTF?

Why would you assume they want it done to code?

I have done some work on many places in/on old houses there is nothing
that you should be surprise of, including bare wires, fuses on the neutral instead
being on hot line install by "professional" or by home owner, many years ago
if you new how to use screw driver and hammer you were professional.
Question here is do you; as professional corrected the problem
or live it as you found it. To limit liability tell costumer if you want me
to do it you need rewire the whole house or tell prospective customer
sorry get some body else I can do the work for you as is...
--------------------

Customer's choice. I'd point out what I believe is dangerous and ask if they want it fixed.

--
If I were two faced, would I be wearing this one?

trader_4
Mon, 12
Sep 2016 18:37:56 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

When you're using
something you should know what it is and how it works.

I've said that for years concerning computers. The typical comeback is
that a person shouldn't have to know what it is or how it works to be
able to use it. I've never agreed with that line of thinking...



--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

trader_4
Mon, 12
Sep 2016 19:31:26 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

There might be a ground present, but they are doing a disservice
by not clearly showing what's there if that's what they meant.

Hmm. The receptacles that I've installed that are properly grounded
would also provide ground thru the metal screw holding the faceplate
onto them, as it's making direct contact with their grounded chassis.
(although you might want to ensure the paint on that screw) has been
removed so that it's metal to metal contact directly. Paint doesn't
always make for a good conductor and as you know, electricity prefers
the path of least resistance.

Not that I'd advise it, but, the ground would be present if you used
the ground pin on the adapter with the screw holding the faceplate
onto the receptacle.

The screw holding the face plate on is electrically connected to
the outlet box, and if it's not grounded, then there's not much
point in using the screw holding the face plate on as a ground.

That's assuming the outlet box is a metal one, and, not plastic. If
it's plastic, the box itself obviously isn't grounded. The outlet is,
if the ground is connected properly at both ends.

If you do happen to have a 2-prong outlet in a properly grounded
box, then the little ground tab or wire will actually provide
ground continuity, as intended.

Yep.

So, the answer is that the grounding tab is meant as a way to
connect electrically to something that in turn should be grounded
(but might not be). It's not meant as a secure attachment
mechanism, though it may seem that way because of the use of a
faceplate screw."

Agreed.


--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

trader_4
Mon, 12
Sep 2016 19:43:34 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 3:20:16 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 09/12/2016 1:37 PM, trader_4 wrote:
...

... When you're using something you
should know what it is and how it works.

As a general statement, that's simply unrealizable...a very large
majority of people (and many of those are quite intelligent and
reasonably knowledgeable) don't know how many of the objects they
use daily and mostly, competently, actually "work". It simply
isn't a prerequisite.

It's how I live my life, it's worked very well for me. How others
choose to live their lives, is of course, up to them. A good
recent example is the guy with the Tesla car in Florida. He was
so proud of the autopilot feature, he even made a youtube video of
it. A few months later, he was killed when the car drove itself
into the side of a tractor trailer. Had he spent the time
understanding how it works, what it's limitations are, he'd likely
be alive today.

Actually, based on what I've read about the crash, had he been paying
more attention to what the car was doing and less attention to the
device he was playing with, he could have avoided the crash by taking
manual control of the car. He was too busy screwing off when he should
have been doing what we're taught to do; keep your eyes on the ****ing
road. Pay attention to your surroundings. etc. you know, what's
considered to be 'common sense' to some of us.

I don't disagree with what you wrote, It's my line of thinking as well,
but as dpb wrote, the general public (read: the sheeple) do not think
that way. Computers are an excellent example of where our mutual
thinking breaks down for others. Many people treat their computers like
they would a toaster oven. Not knowing or caring how it works or how to
keep it safe (and themselves as a result) and in proper working order.

They think because they saved the pictures on drive D: (which is a
partition and not an actual seperate device) that they'll be safe in
the event of a hard disk crash. This sadly, doesn't usually work out
that way. Another example is the computers that bug people to make
those restore discs and the person doesn't. The computer is
asking/begging you to this because it's 'restore' ability is sitting on
another partition on the same drive and if the drive goes south, so
does it's restore to factory ability without those discs.

Wanna take bets on how many people ignore the request and tell the
computer not to bother them about it again? They just assume if the
hard disk crashes, pressing a button on power up will restore it. (Like
the ones that say press F10 to restore to factory defaults.

It won't be able to do that if the partition isn't present, and that's
all the F10 key is doing. It's telling the computer to boot from
another partition instead of the normal one. The same thing the user
could do if they knew what CMOS was and how to configure it. I call it
the 'stupid user' key.

--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 9:09:58 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
trader_4
Mon, 12
Sep 2016 19:31:26 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

There might be a ground present, but they are doing a disservice
by not clearly showing what's there if that's what they meant.

Hmm. The receptacles that I've installed that are properly grounded
would also provide ground thru the metal screw holding the faceplate
onto them, as it's making direct contact with their grounded chassis.
(although you might want to ensure the paint on that screw) has been
removed so that it's metal to metal contact directly. Paint doesn't
always make for a good conductor and as you know, electricity prefers
the path of least resistance.

Not that I'd advise it, but, the ground would be present if you used
the ground pin on the adapter with the screw holding the faceplate
onto the receptacle.


If you follow what I posted, that isn't the issue. The issue is that
it was proposed by Mayayana that you can use the ground provided by
old BX as a ground for a new ground type receptacle. It's that ground
path, through old BX cable, back to the panel that's in question, ie
is it code compliant to replace a grounded receptacle with a grounding
one and use an old BX without the bond strip, as the ground. I think
it's probably not code compliant.



The screw holding the face plate on is electrically connected to
the outlet box, and if it's not grounded, then there's not much
point in using the screw holding the face plate on as a ground.

That's assuming the outlet box is a metal one, and, not plastic. If
it's plastic, the box itself obviously isn't grounded. The outlet is,
if the ground is connected properly at both ends.


It's clear to me the box in the pic Derby posted is metal. It's also
clear we've been talking about metal boxes in the follow up to Mayayana's
suggestion that BX can provide the ground. And given that this is an
old house with non-grounding receptacles, seems 99% it's metal boxes
there too.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 10:13:51 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:56:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I am leasing an older home. Some of the outlets have the 3-prong
grounding outlet and many have just the two-prong which we use
adapters on. Can the regular two-prong outlets be replaced with
3-prong without rewiring the home? Thanks

It depends.

If a ground wire is present at the location of the 2 prong receptacles, then
you can replace them on an individual basis and attach the ground wire to
the ground screw of the 3 prong receptacle.

If there is no ground wire present at the receptacle box, then you can
install a GFCI receptacle in (hopefully) the first receptacle location
of each branch circuit and then attach the downstream 3 prong receptacles
to the load side of the GFCI. The downstream receptacles will not suddenly
be grounded, but the user will be protected from shocks should they (the user)
become a path to ground. The receptacles should be labeled to note that there
is No Equipment Ground present.

Alternatively, a GFCI breaker could be installed for each branch circuit
and then 3 prong receptacles could be installed everywhere. That is probably
a more expensive option and may not be as convenient. There may also be cases
where you don't want an entire branch circuit to be GFCI protected.


GFCI may not be required - but total circuit rewire would be - with
grounded cable.

This is just one of many articles that discusses the situation:

http://ecmweb.com/content/replacing-...ed-receptacles

BTW...I would get a receptacle tester and check the existing 3 prong
receptacles to see if a ground is actually present. If not, I'd check
for an upstream GFCI. If neither are present, then you have a installation
that does not meet code and could present a danger to you and your family.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 10:29:38 -0700, Taxed and Spent
wrote:

On 9/12/2016 10:16 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:56:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I am leasing an older home. Some of the outlets have the 3-prong
grounding outlet and many have just the two-prong which we use
adapters on. Can the regular two-prong outlets be replaced with
3-prong without rewiring the home? Thanks

If it's a two prong, ie no ground receptacle in an older home then there
is almost certainly no ground.

I don't know about "almost certainly", but I have seen homes with two
prong outlets where the boxes did have ground wires.

Also, at some point in the past a metal conduit sometimes served as the
ground "wire".


The use of a tester is a good suggestion.
n I would be willing to bet the "original" receptacles are not
grounded and do not have a ground present, while all "additional"
circuits (added later in the life of the house) are 3 wire grounded
installations. Good possibility there are a few "originals" that
have been replaced with grounded outlets which do not have a ground
wire installed. In many parts of the country conduit is virtually
unheardof in residential wiring. Same with metallic sheather wire such
as "BX". Romex all the way.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 10:38:02 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 1:16:43 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:56:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I am leasing an older home. Some of the outlets have the 3-prong
grounding outlet and many have just the two-prong which we use
adapters on. Can the regular two-prong outlets be replaced with
3-prong without rewiring the home? Thanks

If it's a two prong, ie no ground receptacle in an older home then there
is almost certainly no ground.

I know you said "almost certainly" no ground so you are not wrong, but it
should still be brought into the conversation. I speak from experience.

My house house was built in 1956. Except for the family room addition,
all receptacles were 2 prong. The 2nd floor was wired with 14/2 w/o ground
(cloth covered wire). However, the 1st floor was wired with 14/2 *with*
ground (also cloth covered wire) and the ground wire was attached to the
box. I was able to simply replace the 2 prong receptacles with 3 prong
receptacles and a pigtail back to the box.

That is why I mentioned it to the OP. Situations like that do exist.
Used to be code compliant to just bolt the outlet into the metal box
with the "earthed" mounting tab providing the safety ground connection
to the grounded metal box.