I have an old Sears garage door opener, and there is a small remote lock
switch mounted outside the door in the door frame. When you turn the key,
two wires leading from the switch to the opener are shorted together, and the
door opens, or closes.

The key still turns fine in the lock, but no short is created. I've removed
insulation from the wires just inside the garage, as close to the switch as I
can get, and creating a short there opens the door. So the problem appears
to be inside the switch.

I just want to know if there's anything I need to look out for when
repairing or replacing the switch. It appears to be mounted so that if I
were a bad guy trying to remove the switch and shorting the wires, pulling
the switch out would leave the wires behind. But it still seems vulnerable,
and I wonder if I can improve things.

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Thanks

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 6:56:00 PM UTC-5, Peabody wrote:
I have an old Sears garage door opener, and there is a small remote lock
switch mounted outside the door in the door frame. When you turn the key,
two wires leading from the switch to the opener are shorted together, and the
door opens, or closes.

The key still turns fine in the lock, but no short is created. I've removed
insulation from the wires just inside the garage, as close to the switch as I
can get, and creating a short there opens the door. So the problem appears
to be inside the switch.

I just want to know if there's anything I need to look out for when
repairing or replacing the switch. It appears to be mounted so that if I
were a bad guy trying to remove the switch and shorting the wires, pulling
the switch out would leave the wires behind. But it still seems vulnerable,
and I wonder if I can improve things.

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Thanks

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage "connection". Not sure what you're asking though?

On 9/4/2016 5:08 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 6:56:00 PM UTC-5, Peabody wrote:
I have an old Sears garage door opener, and there is a small remote lock
switch mounted outside the door in the door frame. When you turn the key,
two wires leading from the switch to the opener are shorted together, and the
door opens, or closes.

The key still turns fine in the lock, but no short is created. I've removed
insulation from the wires just inside the garage, as close to the switch as I
can get, and creating a short there opens the door. So the problem appears
to be inside the switch.

I just want to know if there's anything I need to look out for when
repairing or replacing the switch. It appears to be mounted so that if I
were a bad guy trying to remove the switch and shorting the wires, pulling
the switch out would leave the wires behind. But it still seems vulnerable,
and I wonder if I can improve things.

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Thanks

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage "connection". Not sure what you're asking though?


Rubbish!

I would beware of burglars. Those key switches, when they work, are
easy prey.

On Sun, 04 Sep 2016, Peabody wrote:

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Why do you need it? Don't you have a remote for each car?

After my father died, my mother had an extra remote. She has it in the
breakfast area and can now close the garage from the floor above.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 9/4/2016 7:28 PM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/4/2016 5:08 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 6:56:00 PM UTC-5, Peabody wrote:
I have an old Sears garage door opener, and there is a small remote lock
switch mounted outside the door in the door frame. When you turn the
key,
two wires leading from the switch to the opener are shorted together,
and the
door opens, or closes.

The key still turns fine in the lock, but no short is created. I've
removed
insulation from the wires just inside the garage, as close to the
switch as I
can get, and creating a short there opens the door. So the problem
appears
to be inside the switch.

I just want to know if there's anything I need to look out for when
repairing or replacing the switch. It appears to be mounted so that
if I
were a bad guy trying to remove the switch and shorting the wires,
pulling
the switch out would leave the wires behind. But it still seems
vulnerable,
and I wonder if I can improve things.

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Thanks

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage
"connection". Not sure what you're asking though?


Rubbish!

I would beware of burglars. Those key switches, when they work, are
easy prey.

+1 (to Taxed & Spent's). Peabody, lose the key lock and pick up a
keypad. No wires, no problems. Secure as the rolling remote in the
car, easy to install!

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 10:17:24 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016, Peabody wrote:

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Why do you need it? Don't you have a remote for each car?


I have a remote in each vehicle, but I still have a keypad near the door.

Why would I want to use the remote that's in a vehicle when I am not in the vehicle?

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 7:28:32 PM UTC-5, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/4/2016 5:08 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 6:56:00 PM UTC-5, Peabody wrote:
I have an old Sears garage door opener, and there is a small remote lock
switch mounted outside the door in the door frame. When you turn the key,
two wires leading from the switch to the opener are shorted together, and the
door opens, or closes.

The key still turns fine in the lock, but no short is created. I've removed
insulation from the wires just inside the garage, as close to the switch as I
can get, and creating a short there opens the door. So the problem appears
to be inside the switch.

I just want to know if there's anything I need to look out for when
repairing or replacing the switch. It appears to be mounted so that if I
were a bad guy trying to remove the switch and shorting the wires, pulling
the switch out would leave the wires behind. But it still seems vulnerable,
and I wonder if I can improve things.

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Thanks

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage "connection". Not sure what you're asking though?


Rubbish!

I would beware of burglars. Those key switches, when they work, are
easy prey.

If an electrician tells me otherwise, I will accept it...not coming from a limey.

On 9/4/2016 8:43 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 7:28:32 PM UTC-5, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/4/2016 5:08 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 6:56:00 PM UTC-5, Peabody wrote:
I have an old Sears garage door opener, and there is a small remote lock
switch mounted outside the door in the door frame. When you turn the key,
two wires leading from the switch to the opener are shorted together, and the
door opens, or closes.

The key still turns fine in the lock, but no short is created. I've removed
insulation from the wires just inside the garage, as close to the switch as I
can get, and creating a short there opens the door. So the problem appears
to be inside the switch.

I just want to know if there's anything I need to look out for when
repairing or replacing the switch. It appears to be mounted so that if I
were a bad guy trying to remove the switch and shorting the wires, pulling
the switch out would leave the wires behind. But it still seems vulnerable,
and I wonder if I can improve things.

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Thanks

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage "connection". Not sure what you're asking though?


Rubbish!

I would beware of burglars. Those key switches, when they work, are
easy prey.

If an electrician tells me otherwise, I will accept it...not coming from a limey.


How about a good old US of A Electrical Engineer, you sap?

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 12:02:56 AM UTC-5, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/4/2016 8:43 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 7:28:32 PM UTC-5, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/4/2016 5:08 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 6:56:00 PM UTC-5, Peabody wrote:
I have an old Sears garage door opener, and there is a small remote lock
switch mounted outside the door in the door frame. When you turn the key,
two wires leading from the switch to the opener are shorted together, and the
door opens, or closes.

The key still turns fine in the lock, but no short is created. I've removed
insulation from the wires just inside the garage, as close to the switch as I
can get, and creating a short there opens the door. So the problem appears
to be inside the switch.

I just want to know if there's anything I need to look out for when
repairing or replacing the switch. It appears to be mounted so that if I
were a bad guy trying to remove the switch and shorting the wires, pulling
the switch out would leave the wires behind. But it still seems vulnerable,
and I wonder if I can improve things.

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Thanks

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage "connection". Not sure what you're asking though?

Rubbish!

I would beware of burglars. Those key switches, when they work, are
easy prey.

If an electrician tells me otherwise, I will accept it...not coming from a limey.

How about a good old US of A Electrical Engineer, you sap?


I wonder if the sap knows what the picture is of? My friend's garage door opener quit working so I replaced the part in the picture. ^_^

http://imgbox.com/OpYCUtSR

[8~{} Uncle Garage Monster

On Sun, 4 Sep 2016 17:08:03 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villa wrote:

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage
"connection". Not sure what you're asking though?

typical google grouper...stupid ****.

On 9/4/2016 11:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 10:17:24 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016, Peabody wrote:

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Why do you need it? Don't you have a remote for each car?


I have a remote in each vehicle, but I still have a keypad near the door.

Why would I want to use the remote that's in a vehicle when I am not in the vehicle?

I use a wireless keypad. It runs on a 9v battery and, as I have 2
doors, can be programmed for both doors (different codes). It uses
rolling codes, which makes it more secure. The battery, so far, has
lasted over 7 years and still works fine. In my previous house I had a
wired keypad. This one was ok, because there was a ribbon cable between
the keypad and the inside part. The inside part with electronics, could
not easily be accessed. If someone pried off the keypad, they would
still have the know the code and would have to use it in a row/column
fashion. With the OP's key switch, one could simply pry out the lock
and short (notice I said short) the wires together in order to gain
access. The good part is, you don't have to carry a key.

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 11:43:38 PM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 7:28:32 PM UTC-5, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/4/2016 5:08 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 6:56:00 PM UTC-5, Peabody wrote:
I have an old Sears garage door opener, and there is a small remote lock
switch mounted outside the door in the door frame. When you turn the key,
two wires leading from the switch to the opener are shorted together, and the
door opens, or closes.

The key still turns fine in the lock, but no short is created. I've removed
insulation from the wires just inside the garage, as close to the switch as I
can get, and creating a short there opens the door. So the problem appears
to be inside the switch.

I just want to know if there's anything I need to look out for when
repairing or replacing the switch. It appears to be mounted so that if I
were a bad guy trying to remove the switch and shorting the wires, pulling
the switch out would leave the wires behind. But it still seems vulnerable,
and I wonder if I can improve things.

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Thanks

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage "connection". Not sure what you're asking though?


Rubbish!

I would beware of burglars. Those key switches, when they work, are
easy prey.

If an electrician tells me otherwise, I will accept it...not coming from a limey.

Too lazy to use google again, I see. A short circuit doesn't mean
there is an overload. It just means there is some direct, typically
unintended connection or fault in a circuit. You could have a short
on the wiring going to a low voltage, low current sensor, where it
will not work, but there is no overload, for example. It's also
common to say that to reset this device, you short pins 1 and 3
together while applying power, etc.

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 11:42:16 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 10:17:24 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016, Peabody wrote:

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Why do you need it? Don't you have a remote for each car?


I have a remote in each vehicle, but I still have a keypad near the door.

Why would I want to use the remote that's in a vehicle when I am not in the vehicle?

Same here. I'd get rid of the key switch and replace it with a
keypad too. With a keypad, you don't need to have the key.
It's also more secure, though I doubt many thieves eager on burlarizing
a house are going to waste time working that key switch out,
assuming it's a decent one. Plenty of other ways in.

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 9:21:23 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 11:42:16 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 10:17:24 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016, Peabody wrote:

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Why do you need it? Don't you have a remote for each car?


I have a remote in each vehicle, but I still have a keypad near the door.

Why would I want to use the remote that's in a vehicle when I am not in the vehicle?

Same here. I'd get rid of the key switch and replace it with a
keypad too. With a keypad, you don't need to have the key.
It's also more secure, though I doubt many thieves eager on burlarizing
a house are going to waste time working that key switch out,
assuming it's a decent one. Plenty of other ways in.

exactly right. keypads are way more conveient and just as secure

On 9/5/2016 6:25 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 9:21:23 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 11:42:16 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 10:17:24 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016, Peabody wrote:

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Why do you need it? Don't you have a remote for each car?


I have a remote in each vehicle, but I still have a keypad near the door.

Why would I want to use the remote that's in a vehicle when I am not in the vehicle?

Same here. I'd get rid of the key switch and replace it with a
keypad too. With a keypad, you don't need to have the key.
It's also more secure, though I doubt many thieves eager on burlarizing
a house are going to waste time working that key switch out,
assuming it's a decent one. Plenty of other ways in.

exactly right. keypads are way more conveient and just as secure


more secure than a key switch

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 12:02:56 AM UTC-5, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/4/2016 8:43 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 7:28:32 PM UTC-5, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/4/2016 5:08 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 6:56:00 PM UTC-5, Peabody wrote:
I have an old Sears garage door opener, and there is a small remote lock
switch mounted outside the door in the door frame. When you turn the key,
two wires leading from the switch to the opener are shorted together, and the
door opens, or closes.

The key still turns fine in the lock, but no short is created. I've removed
insulation from the wires just inside the garage, as close to the switch as I
can get, and creating a short there opens the door. So the problem appears
to be inside the switch.

I just want to know if there's anything I need to look out for when
repairing or replacing the switch. It appears to be mounted so that if I
were a bad guy trying to remove the switch and shorting the wires, pulling
the switch out would leave the wires behind. But it still seems vulnerable,
and I wonder if I can improve things.

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Thanks

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage "connection". Not sure what you're asking though?


Rubbish!

I would beware of burglars. Those key switches, when they work, are
easy prey.

If an electrician tells me otherwise, I will accept it...not coming from a limey.


How about a good old US of A Electrical Engineer, you sap?

If you were...you wouldn't say "rubbish". UK stuff like, "spot-on"...keep that **** over there!

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 8:18:23 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 11:43:38 PM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 7:28:32 PM UTC-5, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/4/2016 5:08 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 6:56:00 PM UTC-5, Peabody wrote:
I have an old Sears garage door opener, and there is a small remote lock
switch mounted outside the door in the door frame. When you turn the key,
two wires leading from the switch to the opener are shorted together, and the
door opens, or closes.

The key still turns fine in the lock, but no short is created. I've removed
insulation from the wires just inside the garage, as close to the switch as I
can get, and creating a short there opens the door. So the problem appears
to be inside the switch.

I just want to know if there's anything I need to look out for when
repairing or replacing the switch. It appears to be mounted so that if I
were a bad guy trying to remove the switch and shorting the wires, pulling
the switch out would leave the wires behind. But it still seems vulnerable,
and I wonder if I can improve things.

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Thanks

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage "connection". Not sure what you're asking though?


Rubbish!

I would beware of burglars. Those key switches, when they work, are
easy prey.

If an electrician tells me otherwise, I will accept it...not coming from a limey.

Too lazy to use google again, I see. A short circuit doesn't mean
there is an overload. It just means there is some direct, typically
unintended connection or fault in a circuit. You could have a short
on the wiring going to a low voltage, low current sensor, where it
will not work, but there is no overload, for example. It's also
common to say that to reset this device, you short pins 1 and 3
together while applying power, etc.

....I agree, unintended...and not usually done!

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 7:11:40 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sun, 4 Sep 2016 17:08:03 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villa wrote:

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage
"connection". Not sure what you're asking though?

typical google grouper...stupid ****.

Only a stupid **** would spam the **** out of everyone with his one-sided idiocy!

On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 07:18:29 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villa wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 7:11:40 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice
wrote:
On Sun, 4 Sep 2016 17:08:03 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villa wrote:

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage
"connection". Not sure what you're asking though?

typical google grouper...stupid ****.

Only a stupid **** would spam the **** out of everyone with his
one-sided idiocy!

LOL very weak google grouper..come out of your mums house
and get a job and get off the dole and get yer own computer....LOL

On 9/5/2016 7:09 AM, bob_villa wrote:
On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 12:02:56 AM UTC-5, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/4/2016 8:43 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 7:28:32 PM UTC-5, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/4/2016 5:08 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 6:56:00 PM UTC-5, Peabody wrote:
I have an old Sears garage door opener, and there is a small remote lock
switch mounted outside the door in the door frame. When you turn the key,
two wires leading from the switch to the opener are shorted together, and the
door opens, or closes.

The key still turns fine in the lock, but no short is created. I've removed
insulation from the wires just inside the garage, as close to the switch as I
can get, and creating a short there opens the door. So the problem appears
to be inside the switch.

I just want to know if there's anything I need to look out for when
repairing or replacing the switch. It appears to be mounted so that if I
were a bad guy trying to remove the switch and shorting the wires, pulling
the switch out would leave the wires behind. But it still seems vulnerable,
and I wonder if I can improve things.

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Thanks

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage "connection". Not sure what you're asking though?


Rubbish!

I would beware of burglars. Those key switches, when they work, are
easy prey.

If an electrician tells me otherwise, I will accept it...not coming from a limey.


How about a good old US of A Electrical Engineer, you sap?

If you were...you wouldn't say "rubbish". UK stuff like, "spot-on"...keep that **** over there!



Are you daft, man?

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 9:42:49 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 07:18:29 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villa wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 7:11:40 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice
wrote:
On Sun, 4 Sep 2016 17:08:03 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villa wrote:

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a low-voltage
"connection". Not sure what you're asking though?

typical google grouper...stupid ****.

Only a stupid **** would spam the **** out of everyone with his
one-sided idiocy!

LOL very weak google grouper..come out of your mums house
and get a job and get off the dole and get yer own computer....LOL

You say the same thing over and over...so who is weak?

On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 07:46:43 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villa wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 9:42:49 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice
wrote:
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 07:18:29 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villa wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 7:11:40 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice
wrote:
On Sun, 4 Sep 2016 17:08:03 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villa wrote:

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a
low-voltage "connection". Not sure what you're asking though?

typical google grouper...stupid ****.

Only a stupid **** would spam the **** out of everyone with his
one-sided idiocy!

LOL very weak google grouper..come out of your mums house
and get a job and get off the dole and get yer own computer....LOL

You say the same thing over and over...so who is weak?

You are google grouper...

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 9:49:18 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 07:46:43 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villa wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 9:42:49 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice
wrote:
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 07:18:29 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villa wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 7:11:40 AM UTC-5, burfordTjustice
wrote:
On Sun, 4 Sep 2016 17:08:03 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villa wrote:

Shorting is a term for an overload...you are making a
low-voltage "connection". Not sure what you're asking though?

typical google grouper...stupid ****.

Only a stupid **** would spam the **** out of everyone with his
one-sided idiocy!

LOL very weak google grouper..come out of your mums house
and get a job and get off the dole and get yer own computer....LOL

You say the same thing over and over...so who is weak?

You are google grouper...

....your intelligence is clearly shown to all!

On 9/4/2016 4:55 PM, Peabody wrote:
I have an old Sears garage door opener, and there is a small remote lock
switch mounted outside the door in the door frame. When you turn the key,
two wires leading from the switch to the opener are shorted together, and the
door opens, or closes.

The key still turns fine in the lock, but no short is created. I've removed
insulation from the wires just inside the garage, as close to the switch as I
can get, and creating a short there opens the door. So the problem appears
to be inside the switch.

I just want to know if there's anything I need to look out for when
repairing or replacing the switch. It appears to be mounted so that if I
were a bad guy trying to remove the switch and shorting the wires, pulling
the switch out would leave the wires behind. But it still seems vulnerable,
and I wonder if I can improve things.

Anyway, any "look outs" for me?

Thanks

You don't indicate how the current switch is retained. Perhaps a
solution is to get a key switch with a long threaded barrel (body) and
mount it in the wall of the garage (not the door frame) and secure it
with a large washer (and nut). This will keep it from being pulled out
of the garage. See, e.g., http://amzn.to/2ctOZ8J or
http://amzn.to/2ctP2BG Not a perfect solution as a determined thief
could rip the guts out of the switch but your garage is not Fort Knox.

Uncle Monster
Mon, 05
Sep 2016 11:54:25 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I wonder if the sap knows what the picture is of? My friend's
garage door opener quit working so I replaced the part in the
picture. ^_^

http://imgbox.com/OpYCUtSR

It looks like an invisible beam style sensor?



--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

Diesel explained on 9/5/2016 :
Uncle Monster
Mon, 05
Sep 2016 11:54:25 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I wonder if the sap knows what the picture is of? My friend's
garage door opener quit working so I replaced the part in the
picture. ^_^

http://imgbox.com/OpYCUtSR

It looks like an invisible beam style sensor?

Yep, one side emits a beam and the other detects it. Usually infrared.

On 9/5/2016 3:00 PM, FromTheRafters wrote:
Diesel explained on 9/5/2016 :
Uncle Monster
Mon, 05
Sep 2016 11:54:25 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:
I wonder if the sap knows what the picture is of? My friend's
garage door opener quit working so I replaced the part in the
picture. ^_^
http://imgbox.com/OpYCUtSR

It looks like an invisible beam style sensor?

Yep, one side emits a beam and the other detects it. Usually infrared.


Yes! And if you walk through the "U" while the door is in operation it
reverses the door or stops it!

Art Todesco says...

I'm the OP on this. Here's the current setup on this key
switch:

https://s10.postimg.org/mainyoqhl/IMG_2966.jpg

With the OP's key switch, one could simply pry out the
lock and short (notice I said short) the wires together
in order to gain access.

Yes. I guess I assumed (hoped) that the swtich was designed
such that if it was removed, the wires would break away in
some fashion that would leave them inaccessible from the
front. At least, that's what I would have done. But of
course I won't know until I remove it.

I use a wireless keypad. It runs on a 9v battery and,
as I have 2 doors, can be programmed for both doors
(different codes). It uses rolling codes, which makes
it more secure. The battery, so far, has lasted over 7
years and still works fine.

So there must be a part B that's the receiver. This is a
Sears opener from 1972, and the mechanical box still works
fine, but the original transmitters and receiver died long
ago, and instead I use this set:

http://www.smarthome.com/skylink-318...e-control.html

I see that there is also a 318K available, a keypad which
appears to use the same receiver. If so, that would be
pretty straightforward. However, not having seen the 318K,
it's not clear how secure it is. Does it simply transmit
whatever you enter to the receiver, or do you set a specific
code in the keypad? I know that both the T and R of the
current setup have to have the dipswitches set the same way.
Well, I'll need to look into that. It seems a lot of things
that should be secure really aren't, starting with padlocks.

But I guess the basic question is whether I'd rather use a
key or a keypad. It's basically for times when I need to
give someone who doesn't have a clicker access to the house
when I'm not there. And if secure, it seems the keypad is
more convenient, and if it's done correctly, more secure. I
assume all current construction uses keypads.

Bennett says...

You don't indicate how the current switch is retained.
Perhaps a solution is to get a key switch with a long
threaded barrel (body) and mount it in the wall of the
garage (not the door frame) and secure it with a large
washer (and nut). This will keep it from being pulled
out of the garage. See, e.g., http://amzn.to/2ctOZ8J or
http://amzn.to/2ctP2BG Not a perfect solution as a
determined thief could rip the guts out of the switch
but your garage is not Fort Knox.

This picture shows all I know about this switch:

https://s10.postimg.org/mainyoqhl/IMG_2966.jpg

Are you saying I may have a problem removing the old switch?
If there's a nut holding it from the back, it's unlikely
I'll be able to get to that.

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 2:31:32 PM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
Uncle Monster
Mon, 05
Sep 2016 11:54:25 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I wonder if the sap knows what the picture is of? My friend's
garage door opener quit working so I replaced the part in the
picture. ^_^

http://imgbox.com/OpYCUtSR

It looks like an invisible beam style sensor?
--


It's an optical slot interrupter/sensor the size of your thumbnail that solders onto the control board for the garage door opener. A thin plastic wheel with evenly spaced openings attached to the end of the drive motor shaft rotates through the slot in the optical sensor. It allows the control circuitry to detect rotation and rotational speed of the motor shaft, regulate motor speed and whether or not the motor shaft is spinning when it should be.. Depending on the design of the circuitry, it will let the controller know that the drive is operating in relation to the limit switches whether they're the optical or mechanical type limits. There are a lot of variations in design with most openers sensing the current draw of the motor to detect a jam or opener reaching it's limits. Most openers now have pretty smart microprocessor control circuitry which makes them a lot safer. It's been years since I've had one apart and I'm sure that the parts count on the circuit board has decreased quite a bit but I'll bet there's still an optical slot sensor and slotted plastic wheel if not a Hall effect sensor and some sort of magnetic strip to detect shaft speed. Garage door openers are now smarter that many people. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Open Monster

On 9/5/2016 5:22 PM, Peabody wrote:
Art Todesco says...

I'm the OP on this. Here's the current setup on this key
switch:

https://s10.postimg.org/mainyoqhl/IMG_2966.jpg

With the OP's key switch, one could simply pry out the
lock and short (notice I said short) the wires together
in order to gain access.

Yes. I guess I assumed (hoped) that the swtich was designed
such that if it was removed, the wires would break away in


[snip]

code in the keypad? I know that both the T and R of the
current setup have to have the dipswitches set the same way.
Well, I'll need to look into that. It seems a lot of things
that should be secure really aren't, starting with padlocks.

But I guess the basic question is whether I'd rather use a
key or a keypad. It's basically for times when I need to
give someone who doesn't have a clicker access to the house
when I'm not there. And if secure, it seems the keypad is
more convenient, and if it's done correctly, more secure. I
assume all current construction uses keypads.

Most of the digital keypads allow for you to set a "one time code" for
such things as repairmen, deliveries, etc. You set your preferred code
(4 digits) and there is also a programming code so you put in the
one-time codes and changing your own code. For an older unit such as
yours, you are looking at buying both the transmitter and receiver.
They pair up without setting dipswitches, using a programming button not
unlike the "WPS" button on WiFi routers.

Digital access (we use it for the home as well as the access door for
the garage/shop.) is quite secure and if someone should get pass that
they still have to contend with the alarm system.

FromTheRafters
Mon, 05 Sep 2016 20:00:15 GMT in
alt.home.repair, wrote:

Diesel explained on 9/5/2016 :
Uncle Monster
Mon,
05 Sep 2016 11:54:25 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I wonder if the sap knows what the picture is of? My friend's
garage door opener quit working so I replaced the part in the
picture. ^_^

http://imgbox.com/OpYCUtSR

It looks like an invisible beam style sensor?

Yep, one side emits a beam and the other detects it. Usually
infrared.

Hmm...This particular design looks like it's responsible for letting
the garage door opener know that the door is down. IE: stop position
sensor...

As, it's too small to be the safety reverse; I don't see how you'd
break it if you happened to get in the doors way.

Monster,

What was it's function in the garage door opener?

--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

Diesel brought next idea :
FromTheRafters
Mon, 05 Sep 2016 20:00:15 GMT in
alt.home.repair, wrote:

Diesel explained on 9/5/2016 :
Uncle Monster
Mon,
05 Sep 2016 11:54:25 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I wonder if the sap knows what the picture is of? My friend's
garage door opener quit working so I replaced the part in the
picture. ^_^

http://imgbox.com/OpYCUtSR

It looks like an invisible beam style sensor?

Yep, one side emits a beam and the other detects it. Usually
infrared.

Hmm...This particular design looks like it's responsible for letting
the garage door opener know that the door is down. IE: stop position
sensor...

As, it's too small to be the safety reverse; I don't see how you'd
break it if you happened to get in the doors way.

Monster,

What was it's function in the garage door opener?

I assumed it was a gate in which an obstruction tab gets in the slot,
like a travel limit sensor. VCRs eject mechanisms have similar shaped
sensors. Without seeing where it is located, it is hard to guess.

On Mon, 05 Sep 2016, Peabody wrote:

http://www.smarthome.com/skylink-318...e-control.html

I see that there is also a 318K available, a keypad which
appears to use the same receiver. If so, that would be
pretty straightforward. However, not having seen the 318K,
it's not clear how secure it is. Does it simply transmit
whatever you enter to the receiver, or do you set a specific
code in the keypad? I know that both the T and R of the
current setup have to have the dipswitches set the same way.

The manual for the 318K is off the page. There is only the four digit PIN.
No one time codes.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 6:22:44 PM UTC-4, Peabody wrote:
Art Todesco says...

I'm the OP on this. Here's the current setup on this key
switch:

https://s10.postimg.org/mainyoqhl/IMG_2966.jpg

With the OP's key switch, one could simply pry out the
lock and short (notice I said short) the wires together
in order to gain access.

Yes. I guess I assumed (hoped) that the swtich was designed
such that if it was removed, the wires would break away in
some fashion that would leave them inaccessible from the
front. At least, that's what I would have done. But of
course I won't know until I remove it.

I use a wireless keypad. It runs on a 9v battery and,
as I have 2 doors, can be programmed for both doors
(different codes). It uses rolling codes, which makes
it more secure. The battery, so far, has lasted over 7
years and still works fine.

So there must be a part B that's the receiver. This is a
Sears opener from 1972, and the mechanical box still works
fine, but the original transmitters and receiver died long
ago, and instead I use this set:

http://www.smarthome.com/skylink-318...e-control.html

I see that there is also a 318K available, a keypad which
appears to use the same receiver. If so, that would be
pretty straightforward. However, not having seen the 318K,
it's not clear how secure it is. Does it simply transmit
whatever you enter to the receiver, or do you set a specific
code in the keypad?

You'll have to check the documentation to find out for sure,
but every one of these things that's decent that has been made in
the last 25 years that I've seen has used pseudo random codes
between the transmitter and receiver so that
it's virtually impossible for a thief to intercept the communication
and open the door. You have a 4 digit code, but that isn't what
get's sent over the air. The transmitter and receiver are synched
and what looks like a random number is transmitted from the keypad
to the base unit in the garage. Because they are on the same pseudo
random number sequence, the base unit knows what number should be
coming for the next opening of the door. For example, if 34679495
opened it this time, then it knows 68830352 is what opens it next
time. A thief intercepting the first one has no clue how to generate
the next one.



I know that both the T and R of the
current setup have to have the dipswitches set the same way.
Well, I'll need to look into that. It seems a lot of things
that should be secure really aren't, starting with padlocks.


Well, that doesn't sound good, because dip switches was the old
way, where there are only X number of codes with X being determined
by the number of switches, 2^^X. That method isn't very secure at
all, you just have to go through the possible codes one at a time,
but then I've never heard of anyone who got broken into that
way either.

The documentation you have for the units you already have should
make it clear how it works.



But I guess the basic question is whether I'd rather use a
key or a keypad. It's basically for times when I need to
give someone who doesn't have a clicker access to the house
when I'm not there. And if secure, it seems the keypad is
more convenient, and if it's done correctly, more secure. I
assume all current construction uses keypads.

trader_4 says...

I know that both the T and R of the current setup have
to have the dipswitches set the same way. Well, I'll
need to look into that. It seems a lot of things that
should be secure really aren't, starting with padlocks.

Well, that doesn't sound good, because dip switches was
the old way, where there are only X number of codes with
X being determined by the number of switches, 2^^X.
That method isn't very secure at all, you just have to
go through the possible codes one at a time, but then
I've never heard of anyone who got broken into that way
either.

Yes, what I have now is fixed key, set by 9 jumpers. There
are videos on Youtube showing a guy using a modified Mattel
OpenSesame toy that goes through all possible codes in about
four seconds. It's actually quite interesting when he gets
to the math behind it because you don't have to send all
possible codes, just a small fraction of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSSRaIU9_Vc

So I guess it's time to move into the modern world and
replace my stuff with rolling code versions, including a
keypad to replace the keyed switch.

On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 9:55:42 AM UTC-4, Peabody wrote:
trader_4 says...

I know that both the T and R of the current setup have
to have the dipswitches set the same way. Well, I'll
need to look into that. It seems a lot of things that
should be secure really aren't, starting with padlocks.

Well, that doesn't sound good, because dip switches was
the old way, where there are only X number of codes with
X being determined by the number of switches, 2^^X.
That method isn't very secure at all, you just have to
go through the possible codes one at a time, but then
I've never heard of anyone who got broken into that way
either.

Yes, what I have now is fixed key, set by 9 jumpers. There
are videos on Youtube showing a guy using a modified Mattel
OpenSesame toy that goes through all possible codes in about
four seconds. It's actually quite interesting when he gets
to the math behind it because you don't have to send all
possible codes, just a small fraction of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSSRaIU9_Vc

So I guess it's time to move into the modern world and
replace my stuff with rolling code versions, including a
keypad to replace the keyed switch.

I read something on the ole interweb related to reducing the
number of keypad combinations that one would need to try. I
have no way of confirming it's validity, but here it is anyway.

Supposedly burglars can tell which keys are used most often by
their appearance - clean vs dirty, oily, etc. If you take that
information and combine it with knowing how many keystrokes a
particular model key pad uses, you can narrow the combinations
down to only the various combinations of (for example) 2, 6, 8,
and 9.

That still seems like an awful lot of choices for a stranger to
stand at your door trying, so it may be nothing more than scare
tactics. I think I'll look at my keypad tonight and see if I can
tell anything from the look of the keys. Knowing my code will help
me narrow in on the keys I use most often so if I can't see any
difference, I doubt a burglar can.

On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 9:55:42 AM UTC-4, Peabody wrote:
trader_4 says...

I know that both the T and R of the current setup have
to have the dipswitches set the same way. Well, I'll
need to look into that. It seems a lot of things that
should be secure really aren't, starting with padlocks.

Well, that doesn't sound good, because dip switches was
the old way, where there are only X number of codes with
X being determined by the number of switches, 2^^X.
That method isn't very secure at all, you just have to
go through the possible codes one at a time, but then
I've never heard of anyone who got broken into that way
either.

Yes, what I have now is fixed key, set by 9 jumpers. There
are videos on Youtube showing a guy using a modified Mattel
OpenSesame toy that goes through all possible codes in about
four seconds. It's actually quite interesting when he gets
to the math behind it because you don't have to send all
possible codes, just a small fraction of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSSRaIU9_Vc

So I guess it's time to move into the modern world and
replace my stuff with rolling code versions, including a
keypad to replace the keyed switch.

That was very interesting. I knew it can be done, but wondered
what you'd use for hardware, how much development it would take, etc.
This shows it's not trivial, but not all that hard and that toy
is a convenient hardware platform. And I see what you're saying,
the system has holes in it, where you can hit it with codes with
no delay and it uses a shift register comparison, which cuts down
the codes you need to send to find the right one.

He says he can get into a door with 12 bits in less than 10 secs.
You have 9 bits, even worse. Still, IDK anyone who has had a
burglar get in that way. It's clearly a vulnerability though
and the pseudo random code type are orders of magnitude more secure.

On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 10:08:21, DerbyDad03 wrote:

That still seems like an awful lot of choices for a stranger to
stand at your door trying, so it may be nothing more than scare
tactics. I think I'll look at my keypad tonight and see if I can
tell anything from the look of the keys. Knowing my code will help
me narrow in on the keys I use most often so if I can't see any
difference, I doubt a burglar can.

Or change the PIN every once in a while to the clean keys.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

FromTheRafters
Tue, 06 Sep 2016 00:13:21 GMT in
alt.home.repair, wrote:

I assumed it was a gate in which an obstruction tab gets in the
slot, like a travel limit sensor. VCRs eject mechanisms have
similar shaped sensors. Without seeing where it is located, it is
hard to guess.

I see.. good point, interesting comparison. It's been a long time since
I've opened a VCR. [g]


--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400