I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in an outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might be stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly sprayed up into the socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on leather gloves and twisted hard. I really thought the bulb would break off in my glove but it didn't budge. Anyone got any ideas for me to try before I replace the socket altogether?

On 08/12/2016 6:46 AM, Bob Simon wrote:
I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in
anoutdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might
be stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly
sprayed up into the socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on
leather gloves and twisted hard. I really thought the bulb would
break off in my glove but it didn't budge. Anyone got any ideas for
me to try before I replace the socket altogether?

If need be, break the glass and use pliers on the base.

Water not a great choice for the lubricant altho may help, use something
like WD40 or a rust remover that'll wick in the threads...



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On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 04:46:50 -0700 (PDT)
Bob Simon wrote:

I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in
an outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it
might be stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly
sprayed up into the socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on
leather gloves and twisted hard. I really thought the bulb would
break off in my glove but it didn't budge. Anyone got any ideas for
me to try before I replace the socket altogether?

Break out the bulb and shove a potato all the way in socket.
should twist right out.
Might shoot some wd-40 first.

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 8:06:04 AM UTC-4, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 04:46:50 -0700 (PDT)
Bob Simon wrote:

I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in
an outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it
might be stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly
sprayed up into the socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on
leather gloves and twisted hard. I really thought the bulb would
break off in my glove but it didn't budge. Anyone got any ideas for
me to try before I replace the socket altogether?

Break out the bulb and shove a potato all the way in socket.
should twist right out.
Might shoot some wd-40 first.

The base is really soft. Break the glass (carefully) (well if we have to tell you to be careful with broken glass I guess there's a problem) and grab the soft thin metal base with needle nose pliers. I've done it a bunch of times, it always works. Sometimes you have to bend the side of the base in pretty far.

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 7:46:54 AM UTC-4, Bob Simon wrote:
I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in an outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might be stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly sprayed up into the socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on leather gloves and twisted hard. I really thought the bulb would break off in my glove but it didn't budge. Anyone got any ideas for me to try before I replace the socket altogether?

1 - Turn off the power, at the breaker to be extra safe.
2 - Put a zip-lock or other "heavy duty" bag over the bulb and break
the glass.
3 - Use a pair of pliers to bend the edge of base inwards until you have
enough to grab and then twist it out.

(Turning the fixture off at the switch is not the safest method unless
you are 100% sure that it will kill all power to the fixture. There are
situations where they can still be power at the fixture even with the
switch turned off.)

DerbyDad03 has brought this to us :
On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 7:46:54 AM UTC-4, Bob Simon wrote:
I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in an
outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might be
stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly sprayed up into the
socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on leather gloves and twisted
hard. I really thought the bulb would break off in my glove but it didn't
budge. Anyone got any ideas for me to try before I replace the socket
altogether?

1 - Turn off the power, at the breaker to be extra safe.
2 - Put a zip-lock or other "heavy duty" bag over the bulb and break
the glass.
3 - Use a pair of pliers to bend the edge of base inwards until you have
enough to grab and then twist it out.

(Turning the fixture off at the switch is not the safest method unless
you are 100% sure that it will kill all power to the fixture. There are
situations where they can still be power at the fixture even with the
switch turned off.)

I was going to suggest this, but I figured since it was stated that "I
turned the power off" instead of "I turned it off" or "I turned the
light off" I took that to mean at the breaker. With so many folks here
so ready to jump all over somebody for stating the obvious I decided
not to post.

The other point I would have made had I posted then, was to bend in two
opposite edges of the bulb's base and use the long-nosed pliers in the
same way a spanner wrench would be used. I've had to do this with
several outside fixtures due to corrosion.

On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:56:13 -0400, FromTheRafters wrote:

use the long-nosed pliers

As a last resort. After breaking off the glass parts, you might save
some time by just wrapping a few turns of duct tape around the end of a
broom handle *sticky side out*, and then a ring sticky side in anchoring
the 'outie' duct tape. This also gives you a good reach so you don't
need to climb a stepladder with the pliers.

Either way, follow up with sandpaper (sandy side out) duct-taped to the
broom handle to clean corrosion off the contacts. I would also then
duct-tape a rag to the broom handle and dampen it to clean out the grit.

--
http://mduffy.x10host.com/index.htm

In article ,
says...

I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in an outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might be stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly sprayed up into the socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on leather gloves and twisted hard. I really thought the bulb would break off in my glove but it didn't budge. Anyone got any ideas for me to
try before I replace the socket altogether?

Get some penetrating oil in the spray can. Shoot it where the bulb
screws in. I use Koil, but it may be hard to find locally. You may try
some PB Blaster or any other penetrating type of oil.




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On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 04:46:50 -0700 (PDT), Bob Simon
wrote:

I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in an outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might be stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly sprayed up into the socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on leather gloves and twisted hard. I really thought the bulb would break off in my glove but it didn't budge. Anyone got any ideas for me to try before I replace the socket altogether?

Folks mention breaking the glass and using pliers with _all_ power
off.

.... an old 'trick' was to use a potato in the socket. Seriously. Wedge
it in the bulb base and twist it out.

What would a Cajun from NOLA do?

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 9:56:21 AM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
DerbyDad03 has brought this to us :
On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 7:46:54 AM UTC-4, Bob Simon wrote:
I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in an
outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might be
stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly sprayed up into the
socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on leather gloves and twisted
hard. I really thought the bulb would break off in my glove but it didn't
budge. Anyone got any ideas for me to try before I replace the socket
altogether?

1 - Turn off the power, at the breaker to be extra safe.
2 - Put a zip-lock or other "heavy duty" bag over the bulb and break
the glass.
3 - Use a pair of pliers to bend the edge of base inwards until you have
enough to grab and then twist it out.

(Turning the fixture off at the switch is not the safest method unless
you are 100% sure that it will kill all power to the fixture. There are
situations where they can still be power at the fixture even with the
switch turned off.)

I was going to suggest this, but I figured since it was stated that "I
turned the power off" instead of "I turned it off" or "I turned the
light off" I took that to mean at the breaker. With so many folks here
so ready to jump all over somebody for stating the obvious I decided
not to post.


Many years ago a neighbor asked me to change the fixture outside his
front door. I asked him if the power was off and he said yes.

I swapped out the fixture and told him to turn the power back on. He
reached inside the door and flipped the switch. That was my fault,
I should have been more specific.

When it comes to electricity, or anything else that can kill someone,
"stating the obvious" should always be done. If someone jumps on you
for that, tell them to go pound sand.

On 08/12/2016 08:04 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 7:46:54 AM UTC-4, Bob Simon wrote:
I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in an outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might be stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly sprayed up into the socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on leather gloves and twisted hard. I really thought the bulb would break off in my glove but it didn't budge. Anyone got any ideas for me to try before I replace the socket altogether?

1 - Turn off the power, at the breaker to be extra safe.
2 - Put a zip-lock or other "heavy duty" bag over the bulb and break
the glass.
3 - Use a pair of pliers to bend the edge of base inwards until you have
enough to grab and then twist it out.

I usually use scissors (NOT to cut anything, but sideways like pliers).

[snip]


--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The world holds two classes of men -- intelligent men without religion,
and religious men without intelligence." -- Abu'l-Ala-Al-Ma'arri
(973-1057; Syrian poet)

In article ,
says...


Many years ago a neighbor asked me to change the fixture outside his
front door. I asked him if the power was off and he said yes.

I swapped out the fixture and told him to turn the power back on. He
reached inside the door and flipped the switch. That was my fault,
I should have been more specific.

When it comes to electricity, or anything else that can kill someone,
"stating the obvious" should always be done. If someone jumps on you
for that, tell them to go pound sand.

Never trust anyone when it comes to the power. I have one of the
'wireless' touch testers and check for power, turn it off and check
again. I use either it or some other type of tester to make sure there
is no power on anything I touch. If possiable put some kind of lock
device on the switch/breaker.




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On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 10:37:14 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in an outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might be stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly sprayed up into the socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on leather gloves and twisted hard. I really thought the bulb would break off in my glove but it didn't budge. Anyone got any ideas for me to
try before I replace the socket altogether?

Get some penetrating oil in the spray can. Shoot it where the bulb
screws in. I use Koil, but it may be hard to find locally. You may try
some PB Blaster or any other penetrating type of oil.




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Several times I've resorted to breaking off the globe and grabbing
the shell with a needle nose pliers, twisting it to nake the shell
contract and come loose. The crappy aluminum ones in aluminum sockets
can pretty well weld themselves in.

On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 08:44:33 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 04:46:50 -0700 (PDT), Bob Simon
wrote:

I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in an outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might be stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly sprayed up into the socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on leather gloves and twisted hard. I really thought the bulb would break off in my glove but it didn't budge. Anyone got any ideas for me to try before I replace the socket altogether?

Folks mention breaking the glass and using pliers with _all_ power
off.

... an old 'trick' was to use a potato in the socket. Seriously. Wedge
it in the bulb base and twist it out.

What would a Cajun from NOLA do?
Use a 30-06

On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:26:36 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 9:56:21 AM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
DerbyDad03 has brought this to us :
On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 7:46:54 AM UTC-4, Bob Simon wrote:
I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in an
outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might be
stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly sprayed up into the
socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on leather gloves and twisted
hard. I really thought the bulb would break off in my glove but it didn't
budge. Anyone got any ideas for me to try before I replace the socket
altogether?

1 - Turn off the power, at the breaker to be extra safe.
2 - Put a zip-lock or other "heavy duty" bag over the bulb and break
the glass.
3 - Use a pair of pliers to bend the edge of base inwards until you have
enough to grab and then twist it out.

(Turning the fixture off at the switch is not the safest method unless
you are 100% sure that it will kill all power to the fixture. There are
situations where they can still be power at the fixture even with the
switch turned off.)

I was going to suggest this, but I figured since it was stated that "I
turned the power off" instead of "I turned it off" or "I turned the
light off" I took that to mean at the breaker. With so many folks here
so ready to jump all over somebody for stating the obvious I decided
not to post.


Many years ago a neighbor asked me to change the fixture outside his
front door. I asked him if the power was off and he said yes.

I swapped out the fixture and told him to turn the power back on. He
reached inside the door and flipped the switch. That was my fault,
I should have been more specific.

When it comes to electricity, or anything else that can kill someone,
"stating the obvious" should always be done. If someone jumps on you
for that, tell them to go pound sand.
Unless you have personally disconnected the power and verified it is
off and LOCKED off, assume it is live and treat it accordingly.

After hearing about an electrician pulling a meter to change a panel,
only to have a carpenter on the job re-install the meter so he could
use a saw, my dad locked removed meters in his truck.

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 3:06:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:26:36 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 9:56:21 AM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
DerbyDad03 has brought this to us :
On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 7:46:54 AM UTC-4, Bob Simon wrote:
I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in an
outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might be
stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly sprayed up into the
socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on leather gloves and twisted
hard. I really thought the bulb would break off in my glove but it didn't
budge. Anyone got any ideas for me to try before I replace the socket
altogether?

1 - Turn off the power, at the breaker to be extra safe.
2 - Put a zip-lock or other "heavy duty" bag over the bulb and break
the glass.
3 - Use a pair of pliers to bend the edge of base inwards until you have
enough to grab and then twist it out.

(Turning the fixture off at the switch is not the safest method unless
you are 100% sure that it will kill all power to the fixture. There are
situations where they can still be power at the fixture even with the
switch turned off.)

I was going to suggest this, but I figured since it was stated that "I
turned the power off" instead of "I turned it off" or "I turned the
light off" I took that to mean at the breaker. With so many folks here
so ready to jump all over somebody for stating the obvious I decided
not to post.


Many years ago a neighbor asked me to change the fixture outside his
front door. I asked him if the power was off and he said yes.

I swapped out the fixture and told him to turn the power back on. He
reached inside the door and flipped the switch. That was my fault,
I should have been more specific.

When it comes to electricity, or anything else that can kill someone,
"stating the obvious" should always be done. If someone jumps on you
for that, tell them to go pound sand.
Unless you have personally disconnected the power and verified it is
off and LOCKED off, assume it is live and treat it accordingly.

After hearing about an electrician pulling a meter to change a panel,
only to have a carpenter on the job re-install the meter so he could
use a saw, my dad locked removed meters in his truck.

Thanks to all for comments and advice. I went to HD and bought a small can of WD40 with the little red straw to direct the stream exactly where I want it. Sprayed all up inside the base, waited 20 minutes, bulb wouldn't budge, repeated, and now I can rock the bulb socket a lot more but it still won't twist. I especially like the idea of pinching the base of the open socket toward the center with needle nose. This should create a way to exert a lot more twisting force on the stuck base.

I took out the Leviton push button dimmer switch and found that it won't close. Maybe the old bulbs were ok to start with but now I want to be able to replace them normally. I put wire nuts on the live hot and neutral leads in the switch box that operates the lights so the socket must be dead now and I'll get my wife to help me find the breaker before installing the new switch.

In article ,
says...


When it comes to electricity, or anything else that can kill someone,
"stating the obvious" should always be done. If someone jumps on you
for that, tell them to go pound sand.
Unless you have personally disconnected the power and verified it is
off and LOCKED off, assume it is live and treat it accordingly.

After hearing about an electrician pulling a meter to change a panel,
only to have a carpenter on the job re-install the meter so he could
use a saw, my dad locked removed meters in his truck.

Electrician friend was wiring some at a church. He had pulled the
meter. For some reason a power company man came by and saw the meter
out. He put it back in. Good thing the friend only got a mild shock
before he checked and found the meter had been installed.



---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 4:43:42 PM UTC-4, Bob Simon wrote:
On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 3:06:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:26:36 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 9:56:21 AM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
DerbyDad03 has brought this to us :
On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 7:46:54 AM UTC-4, Bob Simon wrote:
I need to replace a burned out bulb that I can't remove. It was in an
outdoor hanging fixture that had an old bee hive so I thought it might be
stuck with honey. I turned off the power and repeatedly sprayed up into the
socket with hot water for 10 minutes then put on leather gloves and twisted
hard. I really thought the bulb would break off in my glove but it didn't
budge. Anyone got any ideas for me to try before I replace the socket
altogether?

1 - Turn off the power, at the breaker to be extra safe.
2 - Put a zip-lock or other "heavy duty" bag over the bulb and break
the glass.
3 - Use a pair of pliers to bend the edge of base inwards until you have
enough to grab and then twist it out.

(Turning the fixture off at the switch is not the safest method unless
you are 100% sure that it will kill all power to the fixture. There are
situations where they can still be power at the fixture even with the
switch turned off.)

I was going to suggest this, but I figured since it was stated that "I
turned the power off" instead of "I turned it off" or "I turned the
light off" I took that to mean at the breaker. With so many folks here
so ready to jump all over somebody for stating the obvious I decided
not to post.


Many years ago a neighbor asked me to change the fixture outside his
front door. I asked him if the power was off and he said yes.

I swapped out the fixture and told him to turn the power back on. He
reached inside the door and flipped the switch. That was my fault,
I should have been more specific.

When it comes to electricity, or anything else that can kill someone,
"stating the obvious" should always be done. If someone jumps on you
for that, tell them to go pound sand.
Unless you have personally disconnected the power and verified it is
off and LOCKED off, assume it is live and treat it accordingly.

After hearing about an electrician pulling a meter to change a panel,
only to have a carpenter on the job re-install the meter so he could
use a saw, my dad locked removed meters in his truck.

Thanks to all for comments and advice. I went to HD and bought a small can of WD40 with the little red straw to direct the stream exactly where I want it. Sprayed all up inside the base, waited 20 minutes, bulb wouldn't budge, repeated, and now I can rock the bulb socket a lot more but it still won't twist. I especially like the idea of pinching the base of the open socket toward the center with needle nose. This should create a way to exert a lot more twisting force on the stuck base.

I took out the Leviton push button dimmer switch and found that it won't close. Maybe the old bulbs were ok to start with but now I want to be able to replace them normally. I put wire nuts on the live hot and neutral leads in the switch box that operates the lights so the socket must be dead now and I'll get my wife to help me find the breaker before installing the new switch.

Good God No! Do not enlist your wife to help you find the breaker. Hire a
teenager, rent a day-worker, call your brother, better yet call a complete
stranger...anybody but your wife. It can only end in disaster.

The mapping of circuits in a house has the same documented 'relationship
casualty rate' as wallpapering.

Husband: (at breaker box, yelling through the duct work) "Is it off?"
Wife: (at far end of house) "What?"
Husband: "I said, IS IT OFF?"
Wife: "I meant, Is *WHAT* off?"
Husband: "What? Did you say "It's not off"?"
Wife: "NO!"
Husband: "No, it's not off" or "No, you didn't say it's not off?"
Wife: "ARRRRGGGHHHH I hate this!"
Husband: "What?"

In article ,
wrote:

Several times I've resorted to breaking off the globe and grabbing
the shell with a needle nose pliers, twisting it to nake the shell
contract and come loose. The crappy aluminum ones in aluminum sockets
can pretty well weld themselves in.

I've done this several times with good success. A few weeks ago, the
aluminum socket was so badly damaged by the time I got the shell out, it
was necessary to replace the whole fixture.

That bulb was outside over a seldom used door. It had probably been
there about 65 years.

Fred

Bob Simon
Fri, 12
Aug 2016 20:43:38 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:


Thanks to all for comments and advice. I went to HD and bought a
small can of WD40 with the little red straw to direct the stream
exactly where I want it. Sprayed all up inside the base, waited
20 minutes, bulb wouldn't budge, repeated, and now I can rock the
bulb socket a lot more but it still won't twist. I especially
like the idea of pinching the base of the open socket toward the
center with needle nose. This should create a way to exert a lot
more twisting force on the stuck base.

Hmm...I think at this point, if it were me, I'd just proceed to replace
the socket. I suspect you're going to find that it's severely corroded
if you do manage to free the base of the bulb. A socket in this
condition would only cost you money in premature lightbulb deaths.


--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 16:46:48 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

Electrician friend was wiring some at a church. He had pulled the
meter. For some reason a power company man came by and saw the meter
out. He put it back in. Good thing the friend only got a mild shock
before he checked and found the meter had been installed.

The guy from the power company was sent by GOD!
He wanted to reap another electrician, so he could control more
lightning......

I don't understand how a corroded socket would lead to premature bulb failure. The only possible effect that I can think of due to socket corrosion is reduced heat transfer from the bulb to the material surrounding the socket. That is a negligible amount compared to the total heat radiation from the bulb.

On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 11:52:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I don't understand how a corroded socket would lead to premature bulb failure. The only possible effect that I can think of due to socket corrosion is reduced heat transfer from the bulb to the material surrounding the socket. That is a negligible amount compared to the total heat radiation from the bulb.

Because you put more force on the base when screwing it in.

On 8/17/2016 8:10 AM, TimR wrote:
On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 11:52:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I don't understand how a corroded socket would lead to premature bulb failure. The only possible effect that I can think of due to socket corrosion is reduced heat transfer from the bulb to the material surrounding the socket. That is a negligible amount compared to the total heat radiation from the bulb.

Because you put more force on the base when screwing it in.


Please explain how a tad more force on the base makes the tungsten
element burn out faster. Not that I doubt you but I don't see the
correlation.

On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 9:30:34 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/17/2016 8:10 AM, TimR wrote:
On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 11:52:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I don't understand how a corroded socket would lead to premature bulb failure. The only possible effect that I can think of due to socket corrosion is reduced heat transfer from the bulb to the material surrounding the socket. That is a negligible amount compared to the total heat radiation from the bulb.

Because you put more force on the base when screwing it in.


Please explain how a tad more force on the base makes the tungsten
element burn out faster. Not that I doubt you but I don't see the
correlation.

The connection of the aluminum base to the glass is marginal. Any extra force twisting it deforms it enough to leak air in which fries the element eventually. Even a little bit is bad.

I have no evidence for this. It's what I've been told, and it may or may not be true. There does seem to be some experience with bulbs burning out faster when people screw them in tighter, hence the recommendation to screw them in until they just light, then only an additional 1/8th turn. That's for incandescents, CFLs or LEDs might need a different torque.

On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 10:57:29 AM UTC-4, TimR wrote:
On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 9:30:34 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/17/2016 8:10 AM, TimR wrote:
On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 11:52:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I don't understand how a corroded socket would lead to premature bulb failure. The only possible effect that I can think of due to socket corrosion is reduced heat transfer from the bulb to the material surrounding the socket. That is a negligible amount compared to the total heat radiation from the bulb.

Because you put more force on the base when screwing it in.


Please explain how a tad more force on the base makes the tungsten
element burn out faster. Not that I doubt you but I don't see the
correlation.

The connection of the aluminum base to the glass is marginal. Any extra force twisting it deforms it enough to leak air in which fries the element eventually. Even a little bit is bad.

I have no evidence for this. It's what I've been told, and it may or may not be true. There does seem to be some experience with bulbs burning out faster when people screw them in tighter, hence the recommendation to screw them in until they just light, then only an additional 1/8th turn. That's for incandescents, CFLs or LEDs might need a different torque.

Speaking of light fixtures, incandescents and LEDs...

I have an old clip-on gooseneck fixture and decided you use it in the shop
to get some direct light on my miter saw.

I installed a 100 W incandescent and aimed it right where I wanted the
light. Even though the fixture was rated for 100W, I could feel the
heat radiating from it and found the housing too hot to touch.

I decided to use a Cree 100W equivalent to eliminate the heat issues.
Now the fixture won't stay aimed because the gooseneck can't support the
weight of the Cree bulb.

I can't win. ;-)

In article ,
says...


Please explain how a tad more force on the base makes the tungsten
element burn out faster. Not that I doubt you but I don't see the
correlation.

The connection of the aluminum base to the glass is marginal. Any extra force twisting it deforms it enough to leak air in which fries the element eventually. Even a little bit is bad.

I have no evidence for this. It's what I've been told, and it may or may not be true. There does seem to be some experience with bulbs burning out faster when people screw them in tighter, hence the recommendation to screw them in until they just light, then only an additional 1/8th turn. That's for incandescents, CFLs or LEDs might need a different torque.


The alumminum base does not seal any vacuum in the glass. The glass is
totally sealed except where the wires come out of the glass.
You can take the base off and throw it away and connect to the wires and
it would not burn out any faster.

---
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On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 5:57:26 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...


Please explain how a tad more force on the base makes the tungsten
element burn out faster. Not that I doubt you but I don't see the
correlation.

The connection of the aluminum base to the glass is marginal. Any extra force twisting it deforms it enough to leak air in which fries the element eventually. Even a little bit is bad.

I have no evidence for this. It's what I've been told, and it may or may not be true. There does seem to be some experience with bulbs burning out faster when people screw them in tighter, hence the recommendation to screw them in until they just light, then only an additional 1/8th turn. That's for incandescents, CFLs or LEDs might need a different torque.


The alumminum base does not seal any vacuum in the glass. The glass is
totally sealed except where the wires come out of the glass.
You can take the base off and throw it away and connect to the wires and
it would not burn out any faster.


Huh. Never thought of that, but it makes sense. Then, I dunno, maybe you just shouldn't screw a bulb in too hard because it will get stuck.

"TimR" wrote in message ...
On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 5:57:26 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...


Please explain how a tad more force on the base makes the tungsten
element burn out faster. Not that I doubt you but I don't see the
correlation.

The connection of the aluminum base to the glass is marginal. Any extra force twisting it deforms it enough to leak air in which fries the element eventually. Even a little bit is bad.

I have no evidence for this. It's what I've been told, and it may or may not be true. There does seem to be some experience with bulbs burning out faster when people screw them in tighter, hence the recommendation to screw them in until they just light, then only an additional 1/8th turn. That's for incandescents, CFLs or LEDs might need a different torque.


The alumminum base does not seal any vacuum in the glass. The glass is
totally sealed except where the wires come out of the glass.
You can take the base off and throw it away and connect to the wires and
it would not burn out any faster.


- Huh. Never thought of that, but it makes sense. Then, I dunno, maybe you just shouldn't screw a bulb in too hard because it will get stuck.

I started checking this awhile back when buying them, thinking that the bulb might twist and cause the leads to touch and spark.

Wed, 17
Aug 2016 03:52:52 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I don't understand how a corroded socket would lead to premature
bulb failure. The only possible effect that I can think of due to
socket corrosion is reduced heat transfer from the bulb to the
material surrounding the socket. That is a negligible amount
compared to the total heat radiation from the bulb.

The corrosion can cause a poor connection for the bulb. This can
result in arcing, excessive resistance, and additional heat to build
at the base of the bulb where semi fragile solder points exist just
inside the bulbs base. Heat them up enough, the connections release.
Bulb lights no more.

Did I mention the socket could be arcing and causing excessive
resistance which is turning into excessive heat? It's not only going
to heat the bulb screwed into it, it's going to pass that heat along
the wires connecting it to your house's power; heating them a bit in
the process too. Depending on the level of heat being produced, this
could become an issue for those wires and/or something else inside
your wall. It's also passing the additional heat from the bottom of
the base to the bulb; heating very small solder points just inside
the base (they connect the filament wires). it's using very little
solder and won't take much effort to heat it enough to where it
releases the fine wires going to it. Once it does, you'll have one of
two things happening: A short circuit inside the bulbs base, OR, a
disconnection without the short circuit going with it.

Either way, bulb lights no more. If the fixture is a half moon
hanging from your ceiling, you're creating additional heat that has
no realistic place to go, it's eventually going to eat the insulation
off the wires feeding your light; when it does, you might see some
black smoke plume out from underneath the fixture next time you try
to turn it on.

Your breaker should also be tripping at this point, if it can. The
half moon fixture is creating more than enough heat under good
conditions to break down the insulation on the wires servicing it,
you don't want to add to that by running worn out, seriously corroded
sockets. You're making the power supply work a little harder to push
the volts to the light. you're making additional heat as you do this.
Heat to a point is okay, beyond that point, it's not okay anymore.

The OP has already blasted it with wd40 and it only loosened another
part of the fixture. That socket's in poor condition. I wouldn't
advise using it. I'd replace it at this point, as I wrote to the
original poster. Corrosion mixed with electricity causes higher
resistance, more heat, less usable voltage. It's a no win.


--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 1:35:34 AM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:

Wed, 17
Aug 2016 03:52:52 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I don't understand how a corroded socket would lead to premature
bulb failure. The only possible effect that I can think of due to
socket corrosion is reduced heat transfer from the bulb to the
material surrounding the socket. That is a negligible amount
compared to the total heat radiation from the bulb.

The corrosion can cause a poor connection for the bulb. This can
result in arcing, excessive resistance, and additional heat to build
at the base of the bulb where semi fragile solder points exist just
inside the bulbs base. Heat them up enough, the connections release.
Bulb lights no more.


I gotta throw the BS flag on this.

I've never seen an example of a bulb arcing in the socket and I don't think anybody else has either.

Bulbs most commonly blow when first turned on, when the filament is cold and you get the maximum current through the weakest point. You often hear the pop.

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 8:27:59 AM UTC-4, TimR wrote:
On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 1:35:34 AM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:

Wed, 17
Aug 2016 03:52:52 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I don't understand how a corroded socket would lead to premature
bulb failure. The only possible effect that I can think of due to
socket corrosion is reduced heat transfer from the bulb to the
material surrounding the socket. That is a negligible amount
compared to the total heat radiation from the bulb.

The corrosion can cause a poor connection for the bulb. This can
result in arcing, excessive resistance, and additional heat to build
at the base of the bulb where semi fragile solder points exist just
inside the bulbs base. Heat them up enough, the connections release.
Bulb lights no more.


I gotta throw the BS flag on this.

I've never seen an example of a bulb arcing in the socket and I don't think anybody else has either.

How would you *see* the arcing between the bulb base and the socket?

Do you check every socket after a bulb has blown with such minute scrutiny
that you can say that the arcing did not occur with 100% confidence?

I am *not* saying that the arcing occurs. I am simply saying that your
statement "I've never seen an example" does not mean that Diesel's
description is BS.


Bulbs most commonly blow when first turned on, when the filament is cold and you get the maximum current through the weakest point. You often hear the pop.

"Commonly" does not mean 100% of the time. You are not wrong in what you say,
but once again it does not disprove what Diesel's says in the specific "corroded socket" situation.

Tires "commonly" go flat because of an object has pierced the material
that keep the air in, but that doesn't disprove the statement that "tires
go flat when there is a bad seal between the bead and rim."

There can be arcing, that is why some of the new GFCI units have arc detection built in. Arc detection is mandatory for some circuits, as far as I have heard about the latest version of the National Electric Code.

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 12:34:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
There can be arcing, that is why some of the new GFCI units have arc detection built in. Arc detection is mandatory for some circuits, as far as I have heard about the latest version of the National Electric Code.

Not on lighting circuits.

Where are you going to get an arc in a light bulb base?

There is too much metal to metal contact on the threads, it's just not going to happen. It would have to be completely corroded all the way around and then have one gap. It defies common sense. But that's where the corrosion or gunk or whatever it is that makes the bulb stick in the socket is.

I could see a possible arc between tip of the bulb and bottom contact when screwing the bulb in hot. Sometimes you'll get a blink when doing that slowly. But if your bulb were doing that in use, you'd see it going on and off.

One thing that definitely happens when you screw a bulb in too hard is you flatten that bottom tab out. That bulb may work but the next one often doesn't. You have to take a popsicle stick or something similar and bend it back out.

When a bulb blows there is an arc at the break in the filament. An arc has a negative resistance curve but there's a built in fuse or it would always trip the breaker.

TimR
Fri, 19
Aug 2016 12:27:52 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 1:35:34 AM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:

Wed,
17 Aug 2016 03:52:52 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I don't understand how a corroded socket would lead to
premature bulb failure. The only possible effect that I can
think of due to socket corrosion is reduced heat transfer from
the bulb to the material surrounding the socket. That is a
negligible amount compared to the total heat radiation from the
bulb.

The corrosion can cause a poor connection for the bulb. This can
result in arcing, excessive resistance, and additional heat to
build at the base of the bulb where semi fragile solder points
exist just inside the bulbs base. Heat them up enough, the
connections release. Bulb lights no more.


I gotta throw the BS flag on this.

Your experience concerning the subject is? My post is based on years
of first hand experience with it, that's why I asked what yours is.
When you're doing electrical work, especially troubleshooting, you
run into all kinds of interesting things.

I've never seen an example of a bulb arcing in the socket and I
don't think anybody else has either.

I see. How many bulbs/fixtures would you say you've serviced?
How many bulbs have you actually examined to see what might have
burned them up? You've never experienced a cheap fixture (or a really
old one) that has a tendency of burning bulbs out prematurely due to
shoddy wiring and/or a generally bad design?

You've never observed corroded connections causing arcing and
premature failures? How much outside wiring experience would you say
you had?




--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

TimR

I gotta throw the BS flag on this.

LOL!! Thanks for that! I needed a good laugh after a long day at the salt mine. I will definitely put this line to good use.

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 5:56:59 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
TimR
Fri, 19
Aug 2016 12:27:52 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

You made the bold claim, with zero evidence.

Now that I've questioned it, you're attacking me.

That IS the way the internet works. But it's not the way intelligent people support their position.

Where is your evidence for your claims in that very very long post of yours?

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 9:25:18 PM UTC-4, TimR wrote:
On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 5:56:59 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
TimR
Fri, 19
Aug 2016 12:27:52 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

You made the bold claim, with zero evidence.

Now that I've questioned it, you're attacking me.

You didn't "question it". You said it was BS. You launched the first salvo.


That IS the way the internet works. But it's not the way intelligent people support their position.

"I never seen it and I don't think anybody else has either." How much intelligence did it take
to put that proclamation in writing?


Where is your evidence for your claims in that very very long post of yours?

TimR
Sat, 20
Aug 2016 01:25:14 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 5:56:59 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
TimR
Fri,
19 Aug 2016 12:27:52 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

You made the bold claim, with zero evidence.

I didn't think urls supporting what I thought was common knowledge
amongst some home owners and electricians alike was necessary.

If you insist though. (You could easily find this on duckduckgo or
google)

http://www.ehow.com/how_6327421_remo...ht-socket.html

They don't go into intimate details discussing the problems you can
run into, aside from the bulb getting stuck!, but, you can spend a
little more time on google if you'd like and find articles that do
discuss the heat buildup/premature death of bulbs as a result of
being run in corroded sockets.

Bad connections create excesssive heat when used. Excessive heat over
time causes damage. Leading upto premature bulb failure.

Now that I've questioned it, you're attacking me.

Your idea of questioning something differs from mine.

I was asking some questions, but, certainly not attacking you while
doing so. Any particular reason you neglected to answer any of them?

Where is your evidence for your claims in that very very long post
of yours?

I don't recall the post being all that long...
58 lines first post, 52 second post...

The OPs is most likely badly corroded... the bulb seems to really be
stuck inside it. Unwilling to budge according to his last post. the
fixture itself internally is willing to move a bit, but the bulb
still isn't. the socket is done man. replace it. Depending on the age
of the fixture itself, I'd consider replacing the entire thing rather
than focusing on the socket. It's upto the OP though.

The base (not the tip) if wired properly will be the neutral line. If
it's badly corroded, excessive heat will be generated when running
the bulb. This can lead to premature bulb death as I originally
stated. Anywhere you have current flowing with a bad connection is
going to make excessive heat. A little probably won't do much harm.
over time, it'll get worse if something isn't done about it and the
little will turn into enough to cause problems.

If you require more 'proof' consult with a licensed electrician
and/or use a search engine. I do apologize in advance for assuming
this was common knowledge. That was my bad.

--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400

The OPs is most likely badly corroded... the bulb seems to really be
stuck inside it. Unwilling to budge according to his last post. the
fixture itself internally is willing to move a bit, but the bulb
still isn't. the socket is done man. replace it. Depending on the age
of the fixture itself, I'd consider replacing the entire thing rather
than focusing on the socket. It's upto the OP though.

This is OP. Parts of the original bulb base appeared to be welded to the socket. In trying to free it, I tore loose strips and chunks of the base but the rest remained in the socket.

Went to HD and bought two hanging exterior lamps for under $40 each and installed them last week. The new lamps look nice but wife wishes the balcony lamps matched the ones on the front porch. I pleaded "function over aesthetics", which is almost a running joke between us after 30 years of marriage. (And yes DD03, she did help me find the breaker.)