saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:08:25 -0700, Malcom Mal Reynolds
wrote:

saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button

Sounds like something I would do.

to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

No one died in this case, right?

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I don't think they are really sealed. Cracks all around the garage
door. Ventilation in the attic space above the garage. That it ran
for 5 hours hints at that.

I'll admit that CO2 is heavier than O2, so maybe that is a factor.
Maybe the room will tend to fill from the floor up with CO2, minus
what leaks out past the doors.

CO is lighter than O2 but not much and cars don't make much CO
anymore.

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

I don't think it will overheat when idling. It must generate 20 times
as much heat at 60MPH. Cars use very little gas when idling.

On 03/29/2016 02:08 PM, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?




Tragic...and one reason I would never want an attached garage.


Heck, I don't even have a garage at all.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:08:25 -0700, Malcom Mal Reynolds
wrote:

saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

The real question is why the software allows the car to run when you
take the fob away? It should at least be a setup option in the DIC.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 14:25:32 -0500, philo wrote:

On 03/29/2016 02:08 PM, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?




Tragic...and one reason I would never want an attached garage.


Heck, I don't even have a garage at all.

I have a garage but there is never a car in it. That is my shop.
We wanted to buy the foreclosure next door for my shop so my wife
could put he car in the garage but it went for more than I was willing
to pay. The garage is detached.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:08:25 -0700, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:

saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly

No, no, no. The problem here is stupidity. I've always thought stupid should be painful, but unfortunately it was only
painful for her offspring.

No matter how idiot-proof one makes something there will always be a higher grade of idiot to overcome the design.

or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

No matter how idiot-proof one makes something there will always be a higher grade of idiot to overcome the design.



keys were pretty much idiot proof

the "improved" design where you don't need a key, not so much

On 3/29/2016 4:29 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:08:25 -0700, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:

saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.


No, no, no. The problem here is stupidity. I've always thought stupid should be painful, but unfortunately it was only
painful for her offspring.

No matter how idiot-proof one makes something there will always be a higher grade of idiot to overcome the design.


Amazing, the things people do now days.
Did this used to happen, back when?


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 3/29/2016 4:37 PM, wrote:


No matter how idiot-proof one makes something there will always be a higher grade of idiot to overcome the design.



keys were pretty much idiot proof

the "improved" design where you don't need a key, not so much


I read that years ago, people would leave the
key in the switch, figuring no one would steal
anything as large as a car. And, so, there was
plenty of car theft. They put a warning ding on
keys, to remind people not to leave the key in
the switch. Crooks would stand around parking
lots and listen for the warning ding when people
stepped out. How true is this? Don't know.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:08:25 -0700, Malcom Mal Reynolds
wrote:

saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

On second thought, the garage might not be sealed well to the outside,
but I'd think it's sealed pretty well from the rest of the house. I
wonder how the gas got into the bedroom. If she'd left the door to
the garage open. people don't do that in the winter, do they, and
she'd have heard the car maybe.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 5:07:13 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:08:25 -0700, Malcom Mal Reynolds
wrote:

saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

On second thought, the garage might not be sealed well to the outside,
but I'd think it's sealed pretty well from the rest of the house. I
wonder how the gas got into the bedroom. If she'd left the door to
the garage open. people don't do that in the winter, do they, and
she'd have heard the car maybe.


"but I'd think it's sealed pretty well from the rest of the house."

And why do you think that?

On 3/29/2016 3:08 PM, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?



Garages are not that well sealed. Cars can idle for days if they have
enough fuel.

Unless the house is all electric, they should have a CO detector. If
you have fossil fuel heat and no CO detector you are negligent.

On 3/29/2016 3:28 PM, wrote:


The real question is why the software allows the car to run when you
take the fob away? It should at least be a setup option in the DIC.


My car beeps as soon as you close a door if the fob is not in the car.

If the car stopped as soon as you removed the fob, it would be annoying
as hell. OTOH, considering the sophistication of electronics in car, it
would be easy to start a 5 or 10 minute countdown when the fob is
removed from the car. That gives you enough time to rub back into the
house when you forget your lunch. My remote start has a 10 minute time
out.

On 3/29/2016 4:37 PM, wrote:


No matter how idiot-proof one makes something there will always be a higher grade of idiot to overcome the design.



keys were pretty much idiot proof

the "improved" design where you don't need a key, not so much


A coworker left her car running with the key in it. Nine hours.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 14:21:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 5:07:13 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:08:25 -0700, Malcom Mal Reynolds
wrote:

saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

On second thought, the garage might not be sealed well to the outside,
but I'd think it's sealed pretty well from the rest of the house. I
wonder how the gas got into the bedroom. If she'd left the door to
the garage open. people don't do that in the winter, do they, and
she'd have heard the car maybe.


"but I'd think it's sealed pretty well from the rest of the house."

And why do you think that?

Because the ones I've seen have been sealed pretty well from the rest
of the house.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:57:21 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 3/29/2016 4:29 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:08:25 -0700, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:

saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.


No, no, no. The problem here is stupidity. I've always thought stupid should be painful, but unfortunately it was only
painful for her offspring.

No matter how idiot-proof one makes something there will always be a higher grade of idiot to overcome the design.


Amazing, the things people do now days.
Did this used to happen, back when?

I remember back in the late fifties and early sixties GM, maybe other makes as well, had an ignition switch that the driver
could remove the key with the engine still running. The driver could shut the engine off at a later time without the key. At
that point no key was needed to start or stop the engine until such time that the owner wanted to "lock" the ignition. I
didn't hear of any mass deaths because previous generations seemed to be more intelligent.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1520134...6&rmv SB=true

This is what happens when everyone gets a trophy.
This is what happens when everyone is moved up to the next grade because of the "No one left behind" edict.
This is what happens when liars and idiots are elected to public office!

On 03/29/2016 02:53 PM, wrote:




Tragic...and one reason I would never want an attached garage.


Heck, I don't even have a garage at all.

I have a garage but there is never a car in it. That is my shop.
We wanted to buy the foreclosure next door for my shop so my wife
could put he car in the garage but it went for more than I was willing
to pay. The garage is detached.




If I had a garage, it would probably be all filled with junk.
As to my workshop, I have almost my entire basement setup for that.

Total of four workbenches.

On 3/29/16 3:08 PM, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?


Two airport stories from a Volvo dealership.

Guy goes to the airport, parks car, forgets to hit the off button.
Comes back days later, car is out of gas with a dead battery.

Husband drives to airport with wife. Curbside, he leaves with fob in
pocket. Wife drives to mall. Hits off button. You guess the rest.........

The dealer also tested the fact that car will not shut itself down if
fob goes away. Drove fob 5 miles away. Car kept running in the service
bay.

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 3:09:00 PM UTC-4, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

If it ran for 5 hours, it would run until it ran out of gas.

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 3:28:47 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:08:25 -0700, Malcom Mal Reynolds
wrote:

saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

The real question is why the software allows the car to run when you
take the fob away? It should at least be a setup option in the DIC.

Maybe they leave the fob in the car, since the car is in the garage.
Even then seems it would be a good idea to have the software start
alerting the driver that the car is idling after say 15 mins and if
there is no response in another 5, to shut it off. But then I suppose
you'd have some people complaining because they want to run the car
to use an inverter in a power failure or similar.

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 5:21:17 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 5:07:13 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:08:25 -0700, Malcom Mal Reynolds
wrote:

saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

On second thought, the garage might not be sealed well to the outside,
but I'd think it's sealed pretty well from the rest of the house. I
wonder how the gas got into the bedroom. If she'd left the door to
the garage open. people don't do that in the winter, do they, and
she'd have heard the car maybe.


"but I'd think it's sealed pretty well from the rest of the house."

And why do you think that?

+1

The fact that so many people have died over the years from cars left
running in the garage prove otherwise.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 14:21:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 5:07:13 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:08:25 -0700, Malcom Mal Reynolds
wrote:

saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

On second thought, the garage might not be sealed well to the outside,
but I'd think it's sealed pretty well from the rest of the house. I
wonder how the gas got into the bedroom. If she'd left the door to
the garage open. people don't do that in the winter, do they, and
she'd have heard the car maybe.


"but I'd think it's sealed pretty well from the rest of the house."

And why do you think that?
Ever watch Mike Holmes and see how shodily built many homes are?
particularly regarding sealing between house and garage.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:08:39 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/29/2016 3:08 PM, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?



Garages are not that well sealed. Cars can idle for days if they have
enough fuel.

Unless the house is all electric, they should have a CO detector. If
you have fossil fuel heat and no CO detector you are negligent.

Also illegal here in Ontario.

Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop
button to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this
happened to her and she woke up to her kids screaming headache,
deciding to take the kid to the ER she opened the garage door and was
overwhelmed by the fumes after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run
for 5 hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how
long could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

Much less likely with modern cars.
https://www.google.com/search?q=suic...utf-8&oe=utf-8

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 2:09:00 PM UTC-5, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

Carbon monoxide detectors have been available to consumers for many years. The stupidity of the woman was not having one installed in her home. Perhaps cities should require that all residents with attached garages have CO detectors installed in their homes. I remember when our fire department was giving out smoke alarms to residents. I wonder if the cost of CO alarms has come down to a low enough price for anyone even low income folks to afford? O_o

[8~{} Uncle Gassy Monster

On 3/30/2016 1:21 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 2:09:00 PM UTC-5, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

Most cars today are quiet enough that you'd not hear it running from
just a few feet away'




Carbon monoxide detectors have been available to consumers for many years. The stupidity of the woman was not having one installed in her home. Perhaps cities should require that all residents with attached garages have CO detectors installed in their homes. I remember when our fire department was giving out smoke alarms to residents. I wonder if the cost of CO alarms has come down to a low enough price for anyone even low income folks to afford? O_o

[8~{} Uncle Gassy Monster


You can get them from about $15 and up. Most new construction requires
them, as does most installation of new heating equipment. Seems dumb
not to have one, but there are many dumb people out there. Why buy a CO
detector when that money can be put to use for a 12 pack?

On 3/30/2016 9:40 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
You can get them from about $15 and up. Most new construction requires
them, as does most installation of new heating equipment. Seems dumb
not to have one, but there are many dumb people out there. Why buy a CO
detector when that money can be put to use for a 12 pack?

12 pack is faster buzz, feels better. Doesn't
need batteries three times a year like the CO.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 2:09:00 PM UTC-5, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

Why keyless systems are stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbhHcxscu4Q

On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 8:40:46 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/30/2016 1:21 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 2:09:00 PM UTC-5, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

Most cars today are quiet enough that you'd not hear it running from
just a few feet away'




Carbon monoxide detectors have been available to consumers for many years. The stupidity of the woman was not having one installed in her home. Perhaps cities should require that all residents with attached garages have CO detectors installed in their homes. I remember when our fire department was giving out smoke alarms to residents. I wonder if the cost of CO alarms has come down to a low enough price for anyone even low income folks to afford? O_o

[8~{} Uncle Gassy Monster


You can get them from about $15 and up. Most new construction requires
them, as does most installation of new heating equipment. Seems dumb
not to have one, but there are many dumb people out there. Why buy a CO
detector when that money can be put to use for a 12 pack?

Dang! You had to remind me. I buy Diet Mountain Dew by the 12 pack and I'm out. Heck, for $15 I can buy 4 twelve packs. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Diet Monster

On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 9:23:04 AM UTC-5, Andy wrote:
On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 2:09:00 PM UTC-5, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

Why keyless systems are stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbhHcxscu4Q

My newest vehicle is a 1995 model. It's inexpensive to service and repair. I hope nobody runs over and totals my vehicle. I want it to last me for the rest of my life. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cheap Monster

On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 1:21:27 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:


Carbon monoxide detectors have been available to consumers for many years.. The stupidity of the woman was not having one installed in her home. Perhaps cities should require that all residents with attached garages have CO detectors installed in their homes. I remember when our fire department was giving out smoke alarms to residents. I wonder if the cost of CO alarms has come down to a low enough price for anyone even low income folks to afford? O_o

[8~{} Uncle Gassy Monster

They are required now in many states, including here in NJ. You can't pass
the fire inspection for a CO without them.

On 3/30/2016 9:22 AM, Andy wrote:
On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 2:09:00 PM UTC-5, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

Why keyless systems are stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbhHcxscu4Q


I looked at a new ford a few months ago, and the thing had so many bells
and whistles on it that they had to offer a class on how to operate it.
I just needed a car with the basics and possibly a back-up camera on
it, and I didn't want a keyless entry, either. They looked at me like I
was living back in the dark ages. Those bells and whistles are nice
when they work, but what happens when some software upgrade doesn't
work, or the system just gets old and you need to upgrade the bells and
whistles for a hefty if you want them to keep working? They funny thing
about the test drive was that they couldn't get the software in the
display panel to work right while I was test driving it. Can anyone say
RED FLAG??

--
Maggie

On 3/30/2016 11:27 AM, Muggles wrote:

I looked at a new ford a few months ago, and the thing had so many bells
and whistles on it that they had to offer a class on how to operate it.
I just needed a car with the basics and possibly a back-up camera on
it, and I didn't want a keyless entry, either. They looked at me like I
was living back in the dark ages. Those bells and whistles are nice
when they work, but what happens when some software upgrade doesn't
work, or the system just gets old and you need to upgrade the bells and
whistles for a hefty if you want them to keep working? They funny thing
about the test drive was that they couldn't get the software in the
display panel to work right while I was test driving it. Can anyone say
RED FLAG??


I'm fond of standard transmission, crank windows,
and other low tech. Sadly, even the key entry on
the passenger side door is missing on newer cars.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 3/30/2016 10:22 AM, Andy wrote:


Why keyless systems are stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbhHcxscu4Q


He bragged about his $2 key, but many keys are $100 or more. I'm on my
fourth keyless car. I like it. Never had a problem. Nice to not have
to fumble to unlock it by finding a keyhole in a storm. It senses I'm
near, lights the handle and puddle lights and I touch a button on the
handle as I open the door.

On 3/30/2016 10:33 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:


Carbon monoxide detectors have been available to consumers for many years. The stupidity of the woman was not having one installed in her home. Perhaps cities should require that all residents with attached garages have CO detectors installed in their homes. I remember when our fire department was giving out smoke alarms to residents. I wonder if the cost of CO alarms has come down to a low enough price for anyone even low income folks to afford? O_o

[8~{} Uncle Gassy Monster


You can get them from about $15 and up. Most new construction requires
them, as does most installation of new heating equipment. Seems dumb
not to have one, but there are many dumb people out there. Why buy a CO
detector when that money can be put to use for a 12 pack?

Dang! You had to remind me. I buy Diet Mountain Dew by the 12 pack and I'm out. Heck, for $15 I can buy 4 twelve packs. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Diet Monster


Short on cash? Pawn the CO detector and get the Dew!

On 3/29/2016 12:08 PM, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.


The above should give all of you ample opportunity to **** AND GET OFF
THE POT.

Any questions?

On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 11:07:24 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/30/2016 10:22 AM, Andy wrote:


Why keyless systems are stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbhHcxscu4Q


He bragged about his $2 key, but many keys are $100 or more. I'm on my
fourth keyless car. I like it. Never had a problem. Nice to not have
to fumble to unlock it by finding a keyhole in a storm. It senses I'm
near, lights the handle and puddle lights and I touch a button on the
handle as I open the door.

He talking about regular keys.

If you want a car that needs keys that cost 100's of dollars, so be it.

If the battery goes out in the key, what happens ?

Andy

On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 11:08:44 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/30/2016 10:33 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:


Carbon monoxide detectors have been available to consumers for many years. The stupidity of the woman was not having one installed in her home. Perhaps cities should require that all residents with attached garages have CO detectors installed in their homes. I remember when our fire department was giving out smoke alarms to residents. I wonder if the cost of CO alarms has come down to a low enough price for anyone even low income folks to afford? O_o

[8~{} Uncle Gassy Monster


You can get them from about $15 and up. Most new construction requires
them, as does most installation of new heating equipment. Seems dumb
not to have one, but there are many dumb people out there. Why buy a CO
detector when that money can be put to use for a 12 pack?

Dang! You had to remind me. I buy Diet Mountain Dew by the 12 pack and I'm out. Heck, for $15 I can buy 4 twelve packs. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Diet Monster

Short on cash? Pawn the CO detector and get the Dew!

Heck, there's a smoke alarm out of my reach and each bed has a sprinkler head in the ceiling above them. Darn, I can't pawn my Chromebook, I wouldn't be able to frak with anyone on Usenet. Hey I know, my SSI check is deposited tomorrow, I'll have enough money to buy some crack, err, I mean Diet Dew. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Crack Monster

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 22:21:22 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 2:09:00 PM UTC-5, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
saw a news story about the danger of keyless ignitions, seems a small
subset of the drivers often forget to actually hit the start/stop button
to actually turn the car off. One woman said that this happened to her
and she woke up to her kids screaming headache, deciding to take the kid
to the ER she opened the garage door and was overwhelmed by the fumes
after having left the car run for 5 hours.

Aside from the fact that this indicates a pretty bad problem with
isolating the garage from the house properly or that in five hours she
never heard the car running, the real question is: could a car run for 5
hours in a "sealed" garage?

I would expect the car might overheat or run out of oxygen. So, how long
could you expect a car to run in a "sealed" garage?

Carbon monoxide detectors have been available to consumers for many years. The stupidity of the woman was not having one installed in her home. Perhaps cities should require that all residents with attached garages have CO detectors installed in their homes. I remember when our fire department was giving out smoke alarms to residents. I wonder if the cost of CO alarms has come down to a low enough price for anyone even low income folks to afford? O_o

[8~{} Uncle Gassy Monster
It is law in Ontario for all houses with any fuel burning
appliance/furnace.

The REAL stupidity was letting tne car continue to run and closing the
garage door. They are VERY lucky it was a late model vehicle that
produces only a maximum of 0.5% CO by volume at idle. Many run much
closer to 0.02% - which would take a lot of running in a tightly
sealed ara to kill you.

With a 50's or 60's era car half an hour could have killed everyone in
the house.

First Alert plug-in systems sell for abour $25 Canadian. (Home Depot
or Costco)

On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 09:52:17 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 3/30/2016 9:40 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
You can get them from about $15 and up. Most new construction requires
them, as does most installation of new heating equipment. Seems dumb
not to have one, but there are many dumb people out there. Why buy a CO
detector when that money can be put to use for a 12 pack?

12 pack is faster buzz, feels better. Doesn't
need batteries three times a year like the CO.
All 4 of my co detectors run on AC with built in rechargeable battery
backup. No batteries required. 10 year life span.