We just bought a house 5 months ago, and we knew it needed a new roof. We
thought we did our homework finding a good roofing company, but we didn't.
They finished the job about a month and a half ago, and the shingles look
awful, and some have fallen off. We can tell by looking at our neighbors,
that had theirs done a month before we did, that things are terribly wrong.
We don't trust the roofer to make this good, and we don't know who to call
to come and inspect it, and tell us just how bad it is.
Who do we call??
There are other big things that need to be fixed in this house, and we
ended on a bad note with our realtor...everyone says to ask them for names
of companys/contractors for our needs, but we don't want to have to deal
with her.
We are about to get a divorce from all of the stress and fighting this and
having our pool repaved has caused.
We need direction!! We need someone we can trust to help us find honest
good reliable contractors.
Mainly, our immediate problem, do we call another roofing company? Will
they come out, and find problems, so that we have to poor more money into
it? Or should we call a home inspector?
And how do we go about trying to make the roof company fix it? Or should
we even trust them to do that? The guy we hired was pretty shifty, and the
roof workers kept showing up to collect their money, even though we paid
for it all with a cashiers check 2 days after it was finished.
What do we do?
we paid 10,500.00 for this, we can't afford just to lose it...please,
please help

--

On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 00:44:01 +0000, Leslie
wrote:

We just bought a house 5 months ago, and we knew it needed a new roof. We
thought we did our homework finding a good roofing company, but we didn't.
They finished the job about a month and a half ago, and the shingles look
awful, and some have fallen off. We can tell by looking at our neighbors,
that had theirs done a month before we did, that things are terribly wrong.
We don't trust the roofer to make this good, and we don't know who to call
to come and inspect it, and tell us just how bad it is.
Who do we call??
There are other big things that need to be fixed in this house, and we
ended on a bad note with our realtor...everyone says to ask them for names
of companys/contractors for our needs, but we don't want to have to deal
with her.
We are about to get a divorce from all of the stress and fighting this and
having our pool repaved has caused.
We need direction!! We need someone we can trust to help us find honest
good reliable contractors.
Mainly, our immediate problem, do we call another roofing company? Will
they come out, and find problems, so that we have to poor more money into
it? Or should we call a home inspector?
And how do we go about trying to make the roof company fix it? Or should
we even trust them to do that? The guy we hired was pretty shifty, and the
roof workers kept showing up to collect their money, even though we paid
for it all with a cashiers check 2 days after it was finished.
What do we do?
we paid 10,500.00 for this, we can't afford just to lose it...please,
please help

Oh my. What state is this?

Contact the state contractor board of licenses. Sure you checked with
them, right?

Find a good subrogation lawyer to sue the company, there family, every
body they've ever knew past and present and sue the dog to. Sue the
goldfish if they have one. Hang the horse and render a fine for
loitering.

Do you have guns and ammo?

"Leslie" wrote in message oups.com...
We just bought a house 5 months ago, and we knew it needed a new roof. We
thought we did our homework finding a good roofing company, but we didn't.
They finished the job about a month and a half ago, and the shingles look
awful, and some have fallen off. We can tell by looking at our neighbors,
that had theirs done a month before we did, that things are terribly wrong.
We don't trust the roofer to make this good, and we don't know who to call
to come and inspect it, and tell us just how bad it is.
Who do we call??
There are other big things that need to be fixed in this house, and we
ended on a bad note with our realtor...everyone says to ask them for names
of companys/contractors for our needs, but we don't want to have to deal
with her.
We are about to get a divorce from all of the stress and fighting this and
having our pool repaved has caused.
We need direction!! We need someone we can trust to help us find honest
good reliable contractors.
Mainly, our immediate problem, do we call another roofing company? Will
they come out, and find problems, so that we have to poor more money into
it? Or should we call a home inspector?
And how do we go about trying to make the roof company fix it? Or should
we even trust them to do that? The guy we hired was pretty shifty, and the
roof workers kept showing up to collect their money, even though we paid
for it all with a cashiers check 2 days after it was finished.
What do we do?
we paid 10,500.00 for this, we can't afford just to lose it...please,
please help

Did your or your roofer pull a city permit for the job?

If a license is required in your state for roofers, does your roofer have one?

If "yes" contact the city building and planning dept and ask for their advice, and the contact the roofer.

On 2/2/2016 7:44 PM, Leslie wrote:
We just bought a house 5 months ago, and we knew it needed a new roof. We
thought we did our homework finding a good roofing company, but we didn't.
They finished the job about a month and a half ago, and the shingles look
awful, and some have fallen off. We can tell by looking at our neighbors,
that had theirs done a month before we did, that things are terribly wrong.
We don't trust the roofer to make this good, and we don't know who to call
to come and inspect it, and tell us just how bad it is.
Who do we call??

First, resolve that no matter the outcome you will end up losing some
money. Did the roofer get a permit? Did the nspector come out and look
at it? If so, you may be able to get some written evidence that the job
is bad.

You can get a lawyer, but that will also be costly.

I'd contact another roofer and see if it can be fixed. If so, you can
then go to small claims court.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/2/2016 7:44 PM, Leslie wrote:
We just bought a house 5 months ago, and we knew it needed a new roof. We
thought we did our homework finding a good roofing company, but we
didn't.
They finished the job about a month and a half ago, and the shingles look
awful, and some have fallen off. We can tell by looking at our neighbors,
that had theirs done a month before we did, that things are terribly
wrong.
We don't trust the roofer to make this good, and we don't know who to
call
to come and inspect it, and tell us just how bad it is.
Who do we call??

First, resolve that no matter the outcome you will end up losing some
money. Did the roofer get a permit? Did the nspector come out and look
at it? If so, you may be able to get some written evidence that the job
is bad.

You can get a lawyer, but that will also be costly.

I'd contact another roofer and see if it can be fixed. If so, you can
then go to small claims court.

Two thing in my mind;
1. This may be a troll
2. I suspect the roofing supplier also did not get paid for
the material since workers are coming to collect their
money. Better check the lien against the house from supplier.

On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 19:55:55 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

1. This may be a troll

Or a person that missed pill line or got the wrong medication...

I'd be stomping mad and would find the answer to hold the person
responsible accountable.

On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 19:55:55 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/2/2016 7:44 PM, Leslie wrote:
We just bought a house 5 months ago, and we knew it needed a new roof. We
thought we did our homework finding a good roofing company, but we
didn't.
They finished the job about a month and a half ago, and the shingles look
awful, and some have fallen off. We can tell by looking at our neighbors,
that had theirs done a month before we did, that things are terribly
wrong.
We don't trust the roofer to make this good, and we don't know who to
call
to come and inspect it, and tell us just how bad it is.
Who do we call??

First, resolve that no matter the outcome you will end up losing some
money. Did the roofer get a permit? Did the nspector come out and look
at it? If so, you may be able to get some written evidence that the job
is bad.

You can get a lawyer, but that will also be costly.

I'd contact another roofer and see if it can be fixed. If so, you can
then go to small claims court.

Two thing in my mind;
1. This may be a troll
2. I suspect the roofing supplier also did not get paid for
the material since workers are coming to collect their
money. Better check the lien against the house from supplier.

3. This was posted years ago, and is just another re-post. Considering
the user name, I suspect this....

On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 00:44:01 +0000, Leslie
wrote:

We just bought a house 5 months ago, and we knew it needed a new roof. We
thought we did our homework finding a good roofing company, but we didn't.
They finished the job about a month and a half ago, and the shingles look
awful, and some have fallen off. We can tell by looking at our neighbors,
that had theirs done a month before we did, that things are terribly wrong.
We don't trust the roofer to make this good, and we don't know who to call

Despite that, you probably have to give him a chance to do so. If
you were the contractor, you'd want a chance to correct your workmen's
mistakes.

Although if you really don't want him to, I suspect you can be
demanding or annoying enough that HE refuses to. I don't mean
calling him a thief, or insisting he comes on Tuesday afternoon
between 2 and 3. But if you give him a list of flaws, real flaws,
not ones you've made up, and say you want them all fixed, he may say
no. To go into more detail I need to know what is wrong with it.
What about it looks bad?

Have other people like friends or neighbors agreed with you that the
whole job looks awful? What's wrong with it? The rows are crooked?
Different colors? What? What kind of roof? Asphalt shingles?

How many years are the shingles guaranteed. When you get an estimate
from the other companies, get one for the same quality shingle. If it
was 25 years, then get 25 years.

So the question is, Is he capable of fixing it right? Is every part
of the roof bad or only parts? Did he tell you, or will he now, of
other roofs he's done. Look at them. Knock on the door and make sure
he actually did them and idn't just take a beautiful house and right
down the address. (When I had my roof done, it was by the same guy
who did the townhouse across the street and the one to the right of
it, and maybe one other, so I saw that he worked well and did a nice
job. I didn't rely on his having a nice smile, being friendly, and
well-spoken. But if your spouse thought that was good enough, don't
fight about it. You'll know for next time. At most we're talking
about 10,000 dollars. )

to come and inspect it, and tell us just how bad it is.
Who do we call??
There are other big things that need to be fixed in this house, and we
ended on a bad note with our realtor...everyone says to ask them for names
of companys/contractors for our needs, but we don't want to have to deal
with her.
We are about to get a divorce from all of the stress and fighting this and
having our pool repaved has caused.

Stop fighting with each other. Everyone makes mistakes.

We need direction!! We need someone we can trust to help us find honest
good reliable contractors.
Mainly, our immediate problem, do we call another roofing company? Will
they come out, and find problems, so that we have to poor more money into
it?

Of course they'll come out, and if there were no problems, you
wouldn't be complaining. (unless you're a couple of fuss-budgets,
which you might be for all I know) If they're competent, they'll
find them.

And they won't work for free, but they will give you a firm "estimate"
of what they will charge to make your roof like it was supposed to be
with the first roofer. Not better, but the same. If you decide you
want it better, get a separate estimate on that, because the first
one will be your evidence in court. It shouldn't just say "new roof"
but should refer to correcting specific, described problems in the
current roof. It should say what is wrong with the current roof.
If they can't write an estimate t hat includes this stuff, tell them
you won't win in court and you won't have the money to hire them.

Make sure what they say is compatible with your observations. You
don't want them claiming things are bad that your photographs show are
not bad. Take plenty of photographs before starting the second
roofing job. A lot of people seem to not do the second job until
after the lawsuit, supposedly because they haven't got the money. If
your roof isn't leaking and damaging the inside of your house, you can
wait too.

You could do with two estimates.

Hopefully the cost will be less than the maximum small claims court
verdict in your area. But if the whole roof has to be done, that
doesn't seem possible.

If they have to remove the whole thing and start over

Or should we call a home inspector?

I don't see that. If it's leaking you can testify to that yourself.
If it looks bad, you should be taking pictures. I would take a video
in addition to stills, starting at the front of your property showing
teh whole house including the street number, to prove that it's your
house, and then getting close to every bad area. You can leave all
this on a laptop and bring the laptop to court.

People who use cell phone pictures for lawsuits over 300 seem like
idiots to me. Buy a camera for 150.

And how do we go about trying to make the roof company fix it? Or should

You ask them. You have to give them at least one chance to correct
their errors, unless you've got some very good reason not to. What
reason do you have?

we even trust them to do that?

See above. What reason do you have?

The guy we hired was pretty shifty, and the
roof workers kept showing up to collect their money, even though we paid
for it all with a cashiers check 2 days after it was finished.

My guess is that bad finances on their part does not in itself mean
thye are technically incompetent. OTOH, if they hired inexperienced
workers, that would mean that. When the next worker shows up ask how
long he has worked for them, how much experience he has, where you can
get in touch with him. If he appears in court with you as a witness,
you should expect to pay him, but if he just gives an sworn affidavit,
not much (not that he'll be willing to do either of these things, but
if he's angry enough, he might be. Of course if he's too angry, he
won't be believable.)

What do we do?
we paid 10,500.00 for this, we can't afford just to lose it...please,
please help

On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 23:30:34 -0600, wrote:

On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 19:55:55 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/2/2016 7:44 PM, Leslie wrote:
We just bought a house 5 months ago, and we knew it needed a new roof. We
thought we did our homework finding a good roofing company, but we
didn't.
They finished the job about a month and a half ago, and the shingles look
awful, and some have fallen off. We can tell by looking at our neighbors,
that had theirs done a month before we did, that things are terribly
wrong.
We don't trust the roofer to make this good, and we don't know who to
call
to come and inspect it, and tell us just how bad it is.
Who do we call??

First, resolve that no matter the outcome you will end up losing some
money. Did the roofer get a permit? Did the nspector come out and look
at it? If so, you may be able to get some written evidence that the job
is bad.

You can get a lawyer, but that will also be costly.

I'd contact another roofer and see if it can be fixed. If so, you can
then go to small claims court.

Two thing in my mind;
1. This may be a troll

I thought the same thing when i first read it, and later too, but
decided to answer anyhow.

2. I suspect the roofing supplier also did not get paid for
the material since workers are coming to collect their
money. Better check the lien against the house from supplier.

If the homeowner didn't sign for the materials, I dont' think they can
get a lien. Of course he might have.

3. This was posted years ago, and is just another re-post. Considering

Darn. How is one who doesn't use google supposed to know this?

the user name, I suspect this....

i never look at that stuff. Of course you're also saying, I think,
that this was a real post years ago, not a troll then.

"Micky" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 00:44:01 +0000, Leslie
wrote:

We just bought a house 5 months ago, and we knew it needed a new roof. We
thought we did our homework finding a good roofing company, but we didn't.
They finished the job about a month and a half ago, and the shingles look
awful, and some have fallen off. We can tell by looking at our neighbors,
that had theirs done a month before we did, that things are terribly wrong.
We don't trust the roofer to make this good, and we don't know who to call

Despite that, you probably have to give him a chance to do so. If
you were the contractor, you'd want a chance to correct your workmen's
mistakes.

Although if you really don't want him to, I suspect you can be
demanding or annoying enough that HE refuses to. I don't mean
calling him a thief, or insisting he comes on Tuesday afternoon
between 2 and 3. But if you give him a list of flaws, real flaws,
not ones you've made up, and say you want them all fixed, he may say
no. To go into more detail I need to know what is wrong with it.
What about it looks bad?

Have other people like friends or neighbors agreed with you that the
whole job looks awful? What's wrong with it? The rows are crooked?
Different colors? What? What kind of roof? Asphalt shingles?

How many years are the shingles guaranteed. When you get an estimate
from the other companies, get one for the same quality shingle. If it
was 25 years, then get 25 years.

So the question is, Is he capable of fixing it right? Is every part
of the roof bad or only parts? Did he tell you, or will he now, of
other roofs he's done. Look at them. Knock on the door and make sure
he actually did them and idn't just take a beautiful house and right
down the address. (When I had my roof done, it was by the same guy
who did the townhouse across the street and the one to the right of
it, and maybe one other, so I saw that he worked well and did a nice
job. I didn't rely on his having a nice smile, being friendly, and
well-spoken. But if your spouse thought that was good enough, don't
fight about it. You'll know for next time. At most we're talking
about 10,000 dollars. )

to come and inspect it, and tell us just how bad it is.
Who do we call??
There are other big things that need to be fixed in this house, and we
ended on a bad note with our realtor...everyone says to ask them for names
of companys/contractors for our needs, but we don't want to have to deal
with her.
We are about to get a divorce from all of the stress and fighting this and
having our pool repaved has caused.

Stop fighting with each other. Everyone makes mistakes.

We need direction!! We need someone we can trust to help us find honest
good reliable contractors.
Mainly, our immediate problem, do we call another roofing company? Will
they come out, and find problems, so that we have to poor more money into
it?

Of course they'll come out, and if there were no problems, you
wouldn't be complaining. (unless you're a couple of fuss-budgets,
which you might be for all I know) If they're competent, they'll
find them.

And they won't work for free, but they will give you a firm "estimate"
of what they will charge to make your roof like it was supposed to be
with the first roofer. Not better, but the same. If you decide you
want it better, get a separate estimate on that, because the first
one will be your evidence in court. It shouldn't just say "new roof"
but should refer to correcting specific, described problems in the
current roof. It should say what is wrong with the current roof.
If they can't write an estimate t hat includes this stuff, tell them
you won't win in court and you won't have the money to hire them.

Make sure what they say is compatible with your observations. You
don't want them claiming things are bad that your photographs show are
not bad. Take plenty of photographs before starting the second
roofing job. A lot of people seem to not do the second job until
after the lawsuit, supposedly because they haven't got the money. If
your roof isn't leaking and damaging the inside of your house, you can
wait too.

You could do with two estimates.

Hopefully the cost will be less than the maximum small claims court
verdict in your area. But if the whole roof has to be done, that
doesn't seem possible.

If they have to remove the whole thing and start over

Or should we call a home inspector?

I don't see that. If it's leaking you can testify to that yourself.
If it looks bad, you should be taking pictures. I would take a video
in addition to stills, starting at the front of your property showing
teh whole house including the street number, to prove that it's your
house, and then getting close to every bad area. You can leave all
this on a laptop and bring the laptop to court.

People who use cell phone pictures for lawsuits over 300 seem like
idiots to me. Buy a camera for 150.

And how do we go about trying to make the roof company fix it? Or should

You ask them. You have to give them at least one chance to correct
their errors, unless you've got some very good reason not to. What
reason do you have?

we even trust them to do that?

See above. What reason do you have?

The guy we hired was pretty shifty, and the
roof workers kept showing up to collect their money, even though we paid
for it all with a cashiers check 2 days after it was finished.

My guess is that bad finances on their part does not in itself mean
thye are technically incompetent. OTOH, if they hired inexperienced
workers, that would mean that. When the next worker shows up ask how
long he has worked for them, how much experience he has, where you can
get in touch with him. If he appears in court with you as a witness,
you should expect to pay him, but if he just gives an sworn affidavit,
not much (not that he'll be willing to do either of these things, but
if he's angry enough, he might be. Of course if he's too angry, he
won't be believable.)

What do we do?
we paid 10,500.00 for this, we can't afford just to lose it...please,
please help

Micky, please elaborate on this.

On 02/02/2016 08:55 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:



snip


Two thing in my mind;
1. This may be a troll
2. I suspect the roofing supplier also did not get paid for
the material since workers are coming to collect their
money. Better check the lien against the house from supplier.



Of course it's a troll, even if the contractor was so bad that they did
not nail down half the shingles, their weight is sufficient (along with
the overlap) that they would not just start falling off a few days after
they were put up.

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 7:10:11 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/02/2016 08:55 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:



snip


Two thing in my mind;
1. This may be a troll
2. I suspect the roofing supplier also did not get paid for
the material since workers are coming to collect their
money. Better check the lien against the house from supplier.



Of course it's a troll, even if the contractor was so bad that they did
not nail down half the shingles, their weight is sufficient (along with
the overlap) that they would not just start falling off a few days after
they were put up.

Probably so. But in case anyone else comes across this in the future
and has a similar problem, I'd suggest contacting the shingle manufacturer.
They offer warranties, provided they are installed correctly. The problem
most likely isn't the material, but they have field reps they will come
take a look on a claim. I'd be there, go up with the rep, take pics,
document everything, get a written claim denial in writing explaining
what the real problem is, etc.

Also a sign that it's likely a troll is that there is no mention of the
roofer being called back. You would think that some initial problem
would surface, they'd be called, etc, ie there would be more of a progression
than it's 3 months later and the shingles are falling off. Never heard
of a shingle job where that happened, not without high wind, etc.

On 02/03/2016 07:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:


Probably so. But in case anyone else comes across this in the future
and has a similar problem, I'd suggest contacting the shingle manufacturer.
They offer warranties, provided they are installed correctly. The problem
most likely isn't the material, but they have field reps they will come
take a look on a claim. I'd be there, go up with the rep, take pics,
document everything, get a written claim denial in writing explaining
what the real problem is, etc.

Also a sign that it's likely a troll is that there is no mention of the
roofer being called back. You would think that some initial problem
would surface, they'd be called, etc, ie there would be more of a progression
than it's 3 months later and the shingles are falling off. Never heard
of a shingle job where that happened, not without high wind, etc.



I had a new roof put on 25 years ago that went over the existing
shingles. The new roof did not lie 100% flat. The roofer told me that
because the original shingles did not lie flat the new roof would not
either, but would eventually settle in.

That never happened, they are still a bit uneven and doggone it the roof
is 100% leak-proof.

Problem is, my home insurer closed operations in my state and I had to
find a different carrier. Most of them...right off the bat...took a look
at the roof and said they would not insure me. It did not matter that
there were no leaks.

I will never do business with State Farm ...ever..because the agent
insulated me as well. I was refused due to "lack of pride of ownership"
or something like that.


The next roof will require a "tear-off" as there are now two layers.
Thing is, why replace a roof that doesn't leak?

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 9:26:12 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/03/2016 07:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:


Probably so. But in case anyone else comes across this in the future
and has a similar problem, I'd suggest contacting the shingle manufacturer.
They offer warranties, provided they are installed correctly. The problem
most likely isn't the material, but they have field reps they will come
take a look on a claim. I'd be there, go up with the rep, take pics,
document everything, get a written claim denial in writing explaining
what the real problem is, etc.

Also a sign that it's likely a troll is that there is no mention of the
roofer being called back. You would think that some initial problem
would surface, they'd be called, etc, ie there would be more of a progression
than it's 3 months later and the shingles are falling off. Never heard
of a shingle job where that happened, not without high wind, etc.



I had a new roof put on 25 years ago that went over the existing
shingles. The new roof did not lie 100% flat. The roofer told me that
because the original shingles did not lie flat the new roof would not
either, but would eventually settle in.


Two aspects to that.

1 - Being the roofing pro, he should have told you that he wouldn't
do the job unless it was a tear-off.

2 - IMO, tear-off is well worth the extra cost. The older the house,
the more true that is. With a tear-off you can see any rot, any
bad plywood, etc.



That never happened, they are still a bit uneven and doggone it the roof
is 100% leak-proof.

Problem is, my home insurer closed operations in my state and I had to
find a different carrier. Most of them...right off the bat...took a look
at the roof and said they would not insure me. It did not matter that
there were no leaks.

I will never do business with State Farm ...ever..because the agent
insulated me as well.

Did he use down or just fiberglass?


I was refused due to "lack of pride of ownership"
or something like that.


The next roof will require a "tear-off" as there are now two layers.
Thing is, why replace a roof that doesn't leak?

Yeah, that's a bummer, when it's just an aesthetic thing. Harder
to justify fixing it.

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 9:26:12 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/03/2016 07:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:


Probably so. But in case anyone else comes across this in the future
and has a similar problem, I'd suggest contacting the shingle manufacturer.
They offer warranties, provided they are installed correctly. The problem
most likely isn't the material, but they have field reps they will come
take a look on a claim. I'd be there, go up with the rep, take pics,
document everything, get a written claim denial in writing explaining
what the real problem is, etc.

Also a sign that it's likely a troll is that there is no mention of the
roofer being called back. You would think that some initial problem
would surface, they'd be called, etc, ie there would be more of a progression
than it's 3 months later and the shingles are falling off. Never heard
of a shingle job where that happened, not without high wind, etc.



I had a new roof put on 25 years ago that went over the existing
shingles. The new roof did not lie 100% flat. The roofer told me that
because the original shingles did not lie flat the new roof would not
either, but would eventually settle in.

That never happened, they are still a bit uneven and doggone it the roof
is 100% leak-proof.

Problem is, my home insurer closed operations in my state and I had to
find a different carrier. Most of them...right off the bat...took a look
at the roof and said they would not insure me. It did not matter that
there were no leaks.

I will never do business with State Farm ...ever..because the agent
insulated me as well. I was refused due to "lack of pride of ownership"
or something like that.


The next roof will require a "tear-off" as there are now two layers.
Thing is, why replace a roof that doesn't leak?

I'm not surprised that most of them want the roof replaced. It costs them
nothing (other than loss of your premium) to require a new roof. I'm sure
that their actuaries have weighed the cost of a claim with a 25 year old
roof vs. the loss of premium and determined that the risk is not worth
the reward.

At 25 years, leaks or no leaks, you may be approaching (or have surpassed)
the manufacturer's warranty on the material, especially since it was installed
over an existing roof. I obviously don't know the specifics or your situation,
but "2nd roof" warranties can range from full to "minus X years" to none.

I have been been involved in 2 "age of roof" situations recently and it's
not just the Ins Co's that want to know about the roof.

I refinanced a HELOC on my own home and had to provide documents showing
the age of the roof (5 years in my case).

I am helping my Dad sell his house and the realtor asked about the roof.
She said it looks really good, but wanted to know the age. She said that,
depending on the lender, any roof over 10 years old could count as "points
against" (in a sense) approving the loan.

On 02/03/2016 08:55 AM, trader_4 wrote:



Two aspects to that.

1 - Being the roofing pro, he should have told you that he wouldn't
do the job unless it was a tear-off.

2 - IMO, tear-off is well worth the extra cost. The older the house,
the more true that is. With a tear-off you can see any rot, any
bad plywood, etc.





Way too late, but he did go up into the attic prior to doing the job and
inform me there was no rot. I had caught the small amount of leakage in
time.

Back then I did not have much money, so even if presented with the
wisdom of a tear-off, probably would still have not gone that route.

When I told him how broke I was he held the bill for six months and
added no interest. I doubt if anything like that would happen today.

On 2/3/2016 7:10 AM, philo wrote:


Of course it's a troll, even if the contractor was so bad that they did
not nail down half the shingles, their weight is sufficient (along with
the overlap) that they would not just start falling off a few days after
they were put up.


Quite a proclamation. What if they had storms the next day with 50 mph
winds.

On 02/03/2016 09:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


snip


I'm not surprised that most of them want the roof replaced. It costs them
nothing (other than loss of your premium) to require a new roof. I'm sure
that their actuaries have weighed the cost of a claim with a 25 year old
roof vs. the loss of premium and determined that the risk is not worth
the reward.

At 25 years, leaks or no leaks, you may be approaching (or have surpassed)
the manufacturer's warranty on the material, especially since it was installed
over an existing roof. I obviously don't know the specifics or your situation,
but "2nd roof" warranties can range from full to "minus X years" to none.

I have been been involved in 2 "age of roof" situations recently and it's
not just the Ins Co's that want to know about the roof.

I refinanced a HELOC on my own home and had to provide documents showing
the age of the roof (5 years in my case).

I am helping my Dad sell his house and the realtor asked about the roof.
She said it looks really good, but wanted to know the age. She said that,
depending on the lender, any roof over 10 years old could count as "points
against" (in a sense) approving the loan.




The shingles were rated for 25 years, so it's now "end of life". When I
do get it replaced (tear-off aside) it's going to be a big job.

Since I have a new furnace that does not require a chimney, It would
make sense to have the chimney removed. That's where the leak started
originally.

The problem is, I still use the chimney for the water heater and will
need to get it replaced with a chimney-less variety. The present water
heater is six years old and is rated to last 12 years.

So...the roof will get replaced either if it starts leaking or else when
the heater nears it's expected end of life.


Between the "tear-off", new water heater and chimney removal, I better
be prepared to spend $15k. I will have to tell my wife, no vacations
that year. Maybe I could break this up into several smaller jobs such
as water heater one year. Chimney removal the next.


Of course in five years we are going to be damn rich from all the
photographs I'm going to be selling

On 02/03/2016 09:16 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/3/2016 7:10 AM, philo wrote:


Of course it's a troll, even if the contractor was so bad that they did
not nail down half the shingles, their weight is sufficient (along with
the overlap) that they would not just start falling off a few days after
they were put up.


Quite a proclamation. What if they had storms the next day with 50 mph
winds.


I thought of that but decided to condemn the OP anyway.
Since the identical post was made a few years back I was quite confident
that it was indeed a troll.

philo wrote:
On 02/03/2016 08:55 AM, trader_4 wrote:



Two aspects to that.

1 - Being the roofing pro, he should have told you that he wouldn't
do the job unless it was a tear-off.

2 - IMO, tear-off is well worth the extra cost. The older the house,
the more true that is. With a tear-off you can see any rot, any
bad plywood, etc.

In my neck of the wood, tear off is must. No one dare to pile up shingles
on top of each other. Any roofing job includes tear off. What kind of
people would do roofing without tear off? To save money? Our roof is
metal ceramic coated tiles. Nothing to do with roof in my life time.
Wind proof, fire proof.




Way too late, but he did go up into the attic prior to doing the job and
inform me there was no rot. I had caught the small amount of leakage in
time.

Back then I did not have much money, so even if presented with the
wisdom of a tear-off, probably would still have not gone that route.

When I told him how broke I was he held the bill for six months and
added no interest. I doubt if anything like that would happen today.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/3/2016 7:10 AM, philo wrote:


Of course it's a troll, even if the contractor was so bad that they did
not nail down half the shingles, their weight is sufficient (along with
the overlap) that they would not just start falling off a few days after
they were put up.


Quite a proclamation. What if they had storms the next day with 50 mph
winds.

I was wondering about that. Shingles fly away/off even properly
installed. All by itself, it'll act like a sail in the wind...,LOL!

"philo" wrote in message ...
On 02/03/2016 07:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:


Probably so. But in case anyone else comes across this in the future
and has a similar problem, I'd suggest contacting the shingle manufacturer.
They offer warranties, provided they are installed correctly. The problem
most likely isn't the material, but they have field reps they will come
take a look on a claim. I'd be there, go up with the rep, take pics,
document everything, get a written claim denial in writing explaining
what the real problem is, etc.

Also a sign that it's likely a troll is that there is no mention of the
roofer being called back. You would think that some initial problem
would surface, they'd be called, etc, ie there would be more of a progression
than it's 3 months later and the shingles are falling off. Never heard
of a shingle job where that happened, not without high wind, etc.



I had a new roof put on 25 years ago that went over the existing
shingles. The new roof did not lie 100% flat. The roofer told me that
because the original shingles did not lie flat the new roof would not
either, but would eventually settle in.

That never happened, they are still a bit uneven and doggone it the roof
is 100% leak-proof.

Problem is, my home insurer closed operations in my state and I had to
find a different carrier. Most of them...right off the bat...took a look
at the roof and said they would not insure me. It did not matter that
there were no leaks.

I will never do business with State Farm ...ever..because the agent
insulated me as well. I was refused due to "lack of pride of ownership"
or something like that.


The next roof will require a "tear-off" as there are now two layers.
Thing is, why replace a roof that doesn't leak?

Good for you, Philo. My experience with State Farm is that their adjusters are incompetent or dishonest. I had a water damaged floor. All that was needed was a few pieces of flooring replaced next to a sliding door - a small job that I could have done. But I called BS Farm to see if insurance would cover a professional job. They sent an inspector/adjuster over and right off the bat wanted to tear up 1000 sf of hardwood flooring, most of the main part of the house. He gave me a contractor to call. I knew it was crooked and never followed up. Ended up replacing one slat and all was fixed. Total cost - one six-pack for a helpful neighbor.

Pretty soon the BS Farm insurance premium went up. The story was that when I called them, they considered that a "claim" and up went the premium.

Also had a driver hit me who had BS Farm auto insurance. Estimates were $1300-1500. They would not pay that much on my old car but offered to have one of "their" shops fix it. Their "fix" would have been to knock out dents and paint only that part, trying to match the old faded paint. Cost for them to paint the whole car was $3K. Funny - out front of the shop was a sign "We welcome all insurance coverage"

Farmers Insurance is also rotten. They bought 21st Century which I have had for 20+ years. Last year I made 2 payments at once because of being out of town for the next one. Instead of doing as I asked, they counted that as one payment and invoiced for the 2nd payment as usual. A few days after that I had a flat around 11pm and called their 800 roadside assistance number which never answered. I called every 10 minutes for a half hour, then called the local tow. I sent the receipt in with a note explaining it. They never replied. I ran across the receipt 6 months later and called. The explanation was what I just said, that I had missed the 2nd payment and insurance lapsed 1 day before the tow. This was not in keeping with their promised "grace period" but they would not budge. Plus they had added on a reinstatement fee that I had not noticed at the time. I asked how long I had had the insurance, and the gal looked it up - "Since 1993". "How many claims have I filed." "None." "Do you think you could credit me that towing charge and reinstatement error charge." "No."

So, I'm shopping around and will be canceling Farmers by mid-Feb when the payment is due.

philo wrote:
On 02/03/2016 09:16 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/3/2016 7:10 AM, philo wrote:


Of course it's a troll, even if the contractor was so bad that they did
not nail down half the shingles, their weight is sufficient (along with
the overlap) that they would not just start falling off a few days after
they were put up.


Quite a proclamation. What if they had storms the next day with 50 mph
winds.


I thought of that but decided to condemn the OP anyway.
Since the identical post was made a few years back I was quite confident
that it was indeed a troll.

Actually some are meant not to live in a single dwelling. They don't
seem to know what is going on around their place. Some years ago, a
couple won a nice size bungalow on a raffle. All their life, lived
in an apartment. They were so excited to move into nice house. They did
not even last one year living in a house. After ~3 months they went back
to old apartment. Claimed keeping a house was such a headache.

On 02/03/2016 09:44 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
philo wrote:
On 02/03/2016 08:55 AM, trader_4 wrote:



Two aspects to that.

1 - Being the roofing pro, he should have told you that he wouldn't
do the job unless it was a tear-off.

2 - IMO, tear-off is well worth the extra cost. The older the house,
the more true that is. With a tear-off you can see any rot, any
bad plywood, etc.

In my neck of the wood, tear off is must. No one dare to pile up shingles
on top of each other. Any roofing job includes tear off. What kind of
people would do roofing without tear off? To save money? Our roof is
metal ceramic coated tiles. Nothing to do with roof in my life time.
Wind proof, fire proof.



Per code: One (and only one) roof may be installed over another, so
unless the wood has rotted a tear-off is not usually done here in Milwaukee

On 02/03/2016 09:53 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:




snip
Actually some are meant not to live in a single dwelling. They don't
seem to know what is going on around their place. Some years ago, a
couple won a nice size bungalow on a raffle. All their life, lived
in an apartment. They were so excited to move into nice house. They did
not even last one year living in a house. After ~3 months they went back
to old apartment. Claimed keeping a house was such a headache.


Very true, some people just cannot deal with it.


I am very glad I can do most of my own repairs but have enough sense to
hire a qualified contractor when necessary.


I've been in my house 35 years and it's been long paid off.
The rents have gone up so high around here that if I did not own my own
home I could not afford to live in this neighborhood.

My taxes are less than half of what a small apartment goes for right
next door.

On 02/03/2016 09:51 AM, Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney wrote:

hing like that.


The next roof will require a "tear-off" as there are now two layers.
Thing is, why replace a roof that doesn't leak?

Good for you, Philo. My experience with State Farm is that their adjusters are incompetent or dishonest. I had a water damaged floor. All that was needed was a few pieces of flooring replaced next to a sliding door - a small job that I could have done. But I called BS Farm to see if insurance would cover a professional job. They sent an inspector/adjuster over and right off the bat wanted to tear up 1000 sf of hardwood flooring, most of the main part of the house. He gave me a contractor to call. I knew it was crooked and never followed up. Ended up replacing one slat and all was fixed. Total cost - one six-pack for a helpful neighbor.

Pretty soon the BS Farm insurance premium went up. The story was that when I called them, they considered that a "claim" and up went the premium.

Also had a driver hit me who had BS Farm auto insurance. Estimates were $1300-1500. They would not pay that much on my old car but offered to have one of "their" shops fix it. Their "fix" would have been to knock out dents and paint only that part, trying to match the old faded paint. Cost for them to paint the whole car was $3K. Funny - out front of the shop was a sign "We welcome all insurance coverage"

Farmers Insurance is also rotten. They bought 21st Century which I have had for 20+ years. Last year I made 2 payments at once because of being out of town for the next one. Instead of doing as I asked, they counted that as one payment and invoiced for the 2nd payment as usual. A few days after that I had a flat around 11pm and called their 800 roadside assistance number which never answered. I called every 10 minutes for a half hour, then called the local tow. I sent the receipt in with a note explaining it. They never replied. I ran across the receipt 6 months later and called. The explanation was what I just said, that I had missed the 2nd payment and insurance lapsed 1 day before the tow. This was not in keeping with their promised "grace period" but they would not budge. Plus they had added on a reinstatement fee that I had not noticed at the time. I asked how long I had had the insurance, and the gal looked it up - "Since 1993". "How many claims have I filed." "Non
e." "Do you think you could credit me that towing charge and reinstatement error charge." "No."

So, I'm shopping around and will be canceling Farmers by mid-Feb when the payment is due.





Yep...Some insurance companies are better than others.

I had to go with a company that specializes in older houses and actually
ended up with slightly better coverage than I had at slightly less money.


Because rates can jump if a claim is filed I would never call any
company for something minor, I have insurance only in the event of
something major.


I got a great rate from GEICO on my car.

On 2016-02-03, philo wrote:

I got a great rate from GEICO on my car.

I hope you never have "something major" occur to yer car.

nb

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 9:26:12 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/03/2016 07:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:


Probably so. But in case anyone else comes across this in the future
and has a similar problem, I'd suggest contacting the shingle manufacturer.
They offer warranties, provided they are installed correctly. The problem
most likely isn't the material, but they have field reps they will come
take a look on a claim. I'd be there, go up with the rep, take pics,
document everything, get a written claim denial in writing explaining
what the real problem is, etc.

Also a sign that it's likely a troll is that there is no mention of the
roofer being called back. You would think that some initial problem
would surface, they'd be called, etc, ie there would be more of a progression
than it's 3 months later and the shingles are falling off. Never heard
of a shingle job where that happened, not without high wind, etc.



I had a new roof put on 25 years ago that went over the existing
shingles. The new roof did not lie 100% flat. The roofer told me that
because the original shingles did not lie flat the new roof would not
either, but would eventually settle in.

That never happened, they are still a bit uneven and doggone it the roof
is 100% leak-proof.

Problem is, my home insurer closed operations in my state and I had to
find a different carrier. Most of them...right off the bat...took a look
at the roof and said they would not insure me. It did not matter that
there were no leaks.

I will never do business with State Farm ...ever..because the agent
insulated me as well. I was refused due to "lack of pride of ownership"
or something like that.


The next roof will require a "tear-off" as there are now two layers.
Thing is, why replace a roof that doesn't leak?

I forgot to mention this:

Again, not knowing your specific situation regarding climate, etc. I don't
know if this applies...

You have a 25 year old roof on top of a roof that is what? 15, 20, 25 years
old? Obviously that roof was failing or you wouldn't have re-roofed.

Roofing technology, from shingles to nailing patterns to underlayment have
changed dramatically in the 40 - 50 years since your first layer was put on.

So now you have a 2nd roof that is probably near the end of its warranty
period on top of a roof that is way behind its warranty period and mostly
likely not installed using "modern day" methods.

If I were a Ins Co, a lender or even a buyer, I would be really concerned
with a roof of that age, condition and installation method.

On 02/03/2016 10:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
roof that doesn't leak?

I forgot to mention this:

Again, not knowing your specific situation regarding climate, etc. I don't
know if this applies...

You have a 25 year old roof on top of a roof that is what? 15, 20, 25 years
old? Obviously that roof was failing or you wouldn't have re-roofed.

Roofing technology, from shingles to nailing patterns to underlayment have
changed dramatically in the 40 - 50 years since your first layer was put on.

So now you have a 2nd roof that is probably near the end of its warranty
period on top of a roof that is way behind its warranty period and mostly
likely not installed using "modern day" methods.

If I were a Ins Co, a lender or even a buyer, I would be really concerned
with a roof of that age, condition and installation method.



Yep, within the next few years I suppose I will have to get it all
removed and replaced.

On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 10:42:58 -0600, philo wrote:

On 02/03/2016 10:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
roof that doesn't leak?

I forgot to mention this:

Again, not knowing your specific situation regarding climate, etc. I don't
know if this applies...

You have a 25 year old roof on top of a roof that is what? 15, 20, 25 years
old? Obviously that roof was failing or you wouldn't have re-roofed.

Roofing technology, from shingles to nailing patterns to underlayment have
changed dramatically in the 40 - 50 years since your first layer was put on.

So now you have a 2nd roof that is probably near the end of its warranty
period on top of a roof that is way behind its warranty period and mostly
likely not installed using "modern day" methods.

If I were a Ins Co, a lender or even a buyer, I would be really concerned
with a roof of that age, condition and installation method.



Yep, within the next few years I suppose I will have to get it all
removed and replaced.

I think you did the right thing. I'm surprised the insurance company
wouldn't write the policy for everything but roof-related damage, and
then when you eventually got a new roof, increase the coverage and the
premium to cover everything.

On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 09:41:47 -0600, philo wrote:

On 02/03/2016 09:16 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/3/2016 7:10 AM, philo wrote:


Of course it's a troll, even if the contractor was so bad that they did
not nail down half the shingles, their weight is sufficient (along with
the overlap) that they would not just start falling off a few days after
they were put up.


Quite a proclamation. What if they had storms the next day with 50 mph
winds.


I thought of that but decided to condemn the OP anyway.
Since the identical post was made a few years back I was quite confident

How did you know it was the same? You just remembered it?

that it was indeed a troll.

On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 08:48:39 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/3/2016 7:10 AM, philo wrote:


Of course it's a troll, even if the contractor was so bad that they did
not nail down half the shingles, their weight is sufficient (along with
the overlap) that they would not just start falling off a few days after
they were put up.


Quite a proclamation. What if they had storms the next day with 50 mph
winds.

I was wondering about that. Shingles fly away/off even properly
installed. All by itself, it'll act like a sail in the wind...,LOL!

Who said they were properly installed. That was part of the
complaint? There's nothing people can't do wrong, especially if
they have no experience or they drink too much.

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 10:31:42 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/03/2016 09:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


snip


I'm not surprised that most of them want the roof replaced. It costs them
nothing (other than loss of your premium) to require a new roof. I'm sure
that their actuaries have weighed the cost of a claim with a 25 year old
roof vs. the loss of premium and determined that the risk is not worth
the reward.

At 25 years, leaks or no leaks, you may be approaching (or have surpassed)
the manufacturer's warranty on the material, especially since it was installed
over an existing roof. I obviously don't know the specifics or your situation,
but "2nd roof" warranties can range from full to "minus X years" to none.

I have been been involved in 2 "age of roof" situations recently and it's
not just the Ins Co's that want to know about the roof.

I refinanced a HELOC on my own home and had to provide documents showing
the age of the roof (5 years in my case).

I am helping my Dad sell his house and the realtor asked about the roof.
She said it looks really good, but wanted to know the age. She said that,
depending on the lender, any roof over 10 years old could count as "points
against" (in a sense) approving the loan.




The shingles were rated for 25 years, so it's now "end of life". When I
do get it replaced (tear-off aside) it's going to be a big job.

Since I have a new furnace that does not require a chimney, It would
make sense to have the chimney removed. That's where the leak started
originally.

The problem is, I still use the chimney for the water heater and will
need to get it replaced with a chimney-less variety. The present water
heater is six years old and is rated to last 12 years.

So...the roof will get replaced either if it starts leaking or else when
the heater nears it's expected end of life.

....or when you can no longer get insurance.

....Snip...

On 02/03/2016 11:00 AM, Micky wrote:



Yep, within the next few years I suppose I will have to get it all
removed and replaced.

I think you did the right thing. I'm surprised the insurance company
wouldn't write the policy for everything but roof-related damage, and
then when you eventually got a new roof, increase the coverage and the
premium to cover everything.




Nothing to do with insurance companies, it is simply human nature.


I once went into a hat store and when I described the type of hat I was
looking for (to the owner) he informed me they "don't have anything like
that."

After looking around a bit I found what I was looking for and
triumphantly brought it up to the counter. "Oh" he said, "that's not a
hat, that's a cap!"


Way too funny to get upset. I gave you the short version as I had to go
through the same thing with the color and size.

On 02/03/2016 11:02 AM, Micky wrote:

I thought of that but decided to condemn the OP anyway.
Since the identical post was made a few years back I was quite confident

How did you know it was the same? You just remembered it?

that it was indeed a troll.



Yes, I have an exceptionally good memory for anything that is of zero
importance!

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 11:24:10 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/03/2016 09:51 AM, Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney wrote:

hing like that.


The next roof will require a "tear-off" as there are now two layers.
Thing is, why replace a roof that doesn't leak?

Good for you, Philo. My experience with State Farm is that their adjusters are incompetent or dishonest. I had a water damaged floor. All that was needed was a few pieces of flooring replaced next to a sliding door - a small job that I could have done. But I called BS Farm to see if insurance would cover a professional job. They sent an inspector/adjuster over and right off the bat wanted to tear up 1000 sf of hardwood flooring, most of the main part of the house. He gave me a contractor to call. I knew it was crooked and never followed up. Ended up replacing one slat and all was fixed. Total cost - one six-pack for a helpful neighbor.

Pretty soon the BS Farm insurance premium went up. The story was that when I called them, they considered that a "claim" and up went the premium.

Also had a driver hit me who had BS Farm auto insurance. Estimates were $1300-1500. They would not pay that much on my old car but offered to have one of "their" shops fix it. Their "fix" would have been to knock out dents and paint only that part, trying to match the old faded paint. Cost for them to paint the whole car was $3K. Funny - out front of the shop was a sign "We welcome all insurance coverage"

Farmers Insurance is also rotten. They bought 21st Century which I have had for 20+ years. Last year I made 2 payments at once because of being out of town for the next one. Instead of doing as I asked, they counted that as one payment and invoiced for the 2nd payment as usual. A few days after that I had a flat around 11pm and called their 800 roadside assistance number which never answered. I called every 10 minutes for a half hour, then called the local tow. I sent the receipt in with a note explaining it. They never replied. I ran across the receipt 6 months later and called. The explanation was what I just said, that I had missed the 2nd payment and insurance lapsed 1 day before the tow. This was not in keeping with their promised "grace period" but they would not budge. Plus they had added on a reinstatement fee that I had not noticed at the time. I asked how long I had had the insurance, and the gal looked it up - "Since 1993". "How many claims have I filed." "Non
e." "Do you think you could credit me that towing charge and reinstatement error charge." "No."

So, I'm shopping around and will be canceling Farmers by mid-Feb when the payment is due.





Yep...Some insurance companies are better than others.

I had to go with a company that specializes in older houses and actually
ended up with slightly better coverage than I had at slightly less money.


Because rates can jump if a claim is filed I would never call any
company for something minor, I have insurance only in the event of
something major.


I got a great rate from GEICO on my car.

FYI...Travelers recently went to "tier system" coverage.

http://www.carsdirect.com/car-insura...he-tier-system

In the past 2 years I've added 2 additional vehicles to my policy. One
vehicle is listed as "garaged" in the city where one of my daughters goes
to college (she's 22, been driving for about 5 years) and another is
garaged in a different city/college (she's 23, been driving for about 2
years). Obviously my rates went up substantially when the cars were assigned
100% to these fairly new drivers who live away from home.

Last November my agent called to tell me that Travelers was going to move
me to their tier system. They increased the amount of coverage for certain
items while reducing my rate by ~40%. The monthly reduction basically covers
the loan payment on the used car we just bought for my oldest daughter.

Sweet!

On 02/03/2016 11:13 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
st" (in a sense) approving the loan.

ars old and is rated to last 12 years.

So...the roof will get replaced either if it starts leaking or else when
the heater nears it's expected end of life.

...or when you can no longer get insurance.

...Snip...




Since I'm with a company that specializes in older houses, I should be
able to get it for a while as I have been keeping up with the repairs.

New windows, new furnace, new wiring, new kitchen etc.

But yep, will need a new roof within the next few years.


As a home owner , whatever the roof will cost, will be only a small
fraction of what I've saved by not paying rent to a landlord.

On 02/03/2016 11:34 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Last November my agent called to tell me that Travelers was going to move
me to their tier system. They increased the amount of coverage for certain
items while reducing my rate by ~40%. The monthly reduction basically covers
the loan payment on the used car we just bought for my oldest daughter.

Sweet!




One reason my car insurance is low is because I have no moving
violations. Got a speeding ticket a few years back and I was so polite
to the small-town policeman he told me to take it to court and "they'd
do something to help me out."

It was a $90 ticket and I said, that would not be necessary, but he
really urged me to take it to court.


Then I realized that for insurance purposes I did not want that on my
record, my rates would probably go up...so I went to court and before I
could say anything, the magistrate asked me if I'd like it changed to a
non-moving violation with the same fine...so my insurance rates would
not go up.

That was easy.

After I got home I pulled the paid ticket out of my pocket to see what
they got me for. Yikes: Vandalizing a street sign! So now I am a
hardened criminal but one not paying much for car insurance at least.

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 12:43:30 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/03/2016 11:13 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
st" (in a sense) approving the loan.

ars old and is rated to last 12 years.

So...the roof will get replaced either if it starts leaking or else when
the heater nears it's expected end of life.

...or when you can no longer get insurance.

...Snip...




Since I'm with a company that specializes in older houses, I should be
able to get it for a while as I have been keeping up with the repairs.

New windows, new furnace, new wiring, new kitchen etc.

But yep, will need a new roof within the next few years.


As a home owner , whatever the roof will cost, will be only a small
fraction of what I've saved by not paying rent to a landlord.

Ah..but did you really "save" it or did you spend it on other things? ;-)

On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 08:26:07 -0600, philo wrote:

Problem is, my home insurer closed operations in my state and I had to
find a different carrier. Most of them...right off the bat...took a look
at the roof and said they would not insure me. It did not matter that
there were no leaks.

I will never do business with State Farm ...ever..because the agent
insulated me as well. I was refused due to "lack of pride of ownership"
or something like that.

I'll be blunt, brief, and to the point.
* INSURANCE PEOPLE ARE ALL ASSHOLES *