While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.

Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.

--
Usenet Reader for Android
http://android.newsgroupstats.hk

On 01/30/2016 11:24 PM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.

There's been a definite neutral and line side since the introduction of
polarized plugs and three wire circuits. That goes back at least to the
'60s if not earlier; I don't recall just when precisely.

--

On 1/30/2016 11:24 PM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.

Turn off the circuit breaker for that outlet

Neutral (White) goes to silver screw

Hot (Black) goes to gold screw

Step by step available all over the internet; just Google it or go to

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/0...ire-an-outlet/

On 1/31/2016 12:24 AM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.


Plugs should be polarized for proper grounding of appliances plugged
into the receptacle. You will also notice that plugs have one prong
larger to mate with the wider slot of the receptacle to everything is
properly polarized. Small prong is hot, wide is the neutral. Yes, your
lamp will light either way but you toaster may shock you if not properly
grounded.

If you look at lamp cords you will notice that one side looks a bit
different than the other side, usually ribbed. That is so if you splice
it or put a new end you can get it right. Smooth is the hot side, ribbed
is neutral.

On 1/31/2016 12:24 AM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.


* the hot wire goes to the smaller slot in the
socket. Less likely to have foreign objects
stuck in the smaller slot. (Think kids with
metal objects.)
* With polarized plugs, the hot goes up to
the switch. So when the device is turned off,
the wires in the device are not powered.

Safety reasons, for sure.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/31/2016 12:30 AM, dpb wrote:
On 01/30/2016 11:24 PM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.

There's been a definite neutral and line side since the introduction of
polarized plugs and three wire circuits. That goes back at least to the
'60s if not earlier; I don't recall just when precisely.


Also worth knowing WHY, precisely. There
is a good reason which does make sense.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 6:54:58 AM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:

* the hot wire goes to the smaller slot in the
socket. Less likely to have foreign objects
stuck in the smaller slot. (Think kids with
metal objects.)
* With polarized plugs, the hot goes up to
the switch. So when the device is turned off,
the wires in the device are not powered.

Safety reasons, for sure.

Congrats, no N word, no stupid puns, nothing political...I bet you feel better too?

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 12:56:32 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/31/2016 12:24 AM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.


Plugs should be polarized for proper grounding of appliances plugged
into the receptacle. You will also notice that plugs have one prong
larger to mate with the wider slot of the receptacle to everything is
properly polarized. Small prong is hot, wide is the neutral. Yes, your
lamp will light either way but you toaster may shock you if not properly
grounded.


I don't know of any appliance that relies on the neutral for actual
grounding. Two wire devices are not grounded and AFAIK, they don't
have the case connected to the neutral. Polarization is important
because the appliance is designed to expect one wire to be the hot,
the other the neutral. For example, with a simple floor lamp, the
tab at the bottom goes to the hot side, the side of the socket to
the neutral. If the light is left on while changing a bulb, it's
easier to accidentally touch the side, not so easy to touch the tab
at the bottom. With the side at neutral potential which is close
to ground potential, if you touched the side of the socket while
standing in water, you shouldn't get a shock, any voltage potential
there should be minimal. With other appliances, similar applies.
The switch to cut off power to the appliance is going to be on the
side that is supposed to be hot for example. The appliance would
still work plugged in the other way, but if you start to take it
apart while it's plugged in, have the switch off, parts that you
think would not be energized, will be.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:56:32 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/31/2016 12:24 AM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.


Plugs should be polarized for proper grounding of appliances plugged
into the receptacle. You will also notice that plugs have one prong
larger to mate with the wider slot of the receptacle to everything is
properly polarized. Small prong is hot, wide is the neutral. Yes, your
lamp will light either way but you toaster may shock you if not properly
grounded.

If you look at lamp cords you will notice that one side looks a bit
different than the other side, usually ribbed. That is so if you splice
it or put a new end you can get it right. Smooth is the hot side, ribbed
is neutral.


Really ! ?
Are you saying that the metal body of my toaster is "grounded"
to the neutral wire of the power cord ? for safety.
Imagine that someone forces the 2-prong polarized plug into the wall -
- backwards !
John T.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 01/31/2016 08:57 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:56:32 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

If you look at lamp cords you will notice that one side looks a bit
different than the other side, usually ribbed. That is so if you splice
it or put a new end you can get it right. Smooth is the hot side, ribbed
is neutral.


Really ! ?
Are you saying that the metal body of my toaster is "grounded"
to the neutral wire of the power cord ? for safety.
Imagine that someone forces the 2-prong polarized plug into the wall -
- backwards !
John T.




No, that would not be the case. The "hot" wire would simply go to the
switch. Any device with a grounded case would require a three prong plug
with a ground wire.


I don't know what year polarized plugs and outlets became the standard
but I do know the outlets in the house my parents had built in 1957 had
them. (No ground prong provision though)

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 23:24:59 -0600, "dangerous dan"
wrote:

While looking at this wall plug,

Do you mean the wall outlet, the receptacle? I think so. (Or the
plug on the end of the cord?)

I noticed it has a designated side for white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.

Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.

That's why they call you dangerous dan. They haven't always been
labeled white and black but the screws were silver and brass colored
and people who connected them were supposed to know which went to
which. This goes back to the 50's and I think earlier. The
practical light bulb only goes back to 1870.

On 1/31/2016 9:57 AM, wrote:


Really ! ?
Are you saying that the metal body of my toaster is "grounded"
to the neutral wire of the power cord ? for safety.
Imagine that someone forces the 2-prong polarized plug into the wall -
- backwards !
John T.

Trader4 explained it better than I did. Your toaster may be grounded
with a third wire to ground or may be double insulated. My old toaster
had an outside plastic housing but new toaster has a 3 wire plug and
metal housing.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 09:57:13 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:56:32 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/31/2016 12:24 AM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.


Plugs should be polarized for proper grounding of appliances plugged
into the receptacle. You will also notice that plugs have one prong
larger to mate with the wider slot of the receptacle to everything is
properly polarized. Small prong is hot, wide is the neutral. Yes, your
lamp will light either way but you toaster may shock you if not properly
grounded.

If you look at lamp cords you will notice that one side looks a bit
different than the other side, usually ribbed. That is so if you splice
it or put a new end you can get it right. Smooth is the hot side, ribbed
is neutral.


Really ! ?
Are you saying that the metal body of my toaster is "grounded"
to the neutral wire of the power cord ? for safety.
Imagine that someone forces the 2-prong polarized plug into the wall -
- backwards !
John T.


Trader summed it up nicely. If you have the polarity swapped on your
toaster, the switch is opening the neutral and when you stick the fork
in there to get the bagel out, it will light you up.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 11:06:05 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 09:57:13 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:56:32 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/31/2016 12:24 AM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.


Plugs should be polarized for proper grounding of appliances plugged
into the receptacle. You will also notice that plugs have one prong
larger to mate with the wider slot of the receptacle to everything is
properly polarized. Small prong is hot, wide is the neutral. Yes, your
lamp will light either way but you toaster may shock you if not properly
grounded.

If you look at lamp cords you will notice that one side looks a bit
different than the other side, usually ribbed. That is so if you splice
it or put a new end you can get it right. Smooth is the hot side, ribbed
is neutral.


Really ! ?
Are you saying that the metal body of my toaster is "grounded"
to the neutral wire of the power cord ? for safety.
Imagine that someone forces the 2-prong polarized plug into the wall -
- backwards !
John T.


Trader summed it up nicely. If you have the polarity swapped on your
toaster, the switch is opening the neutral and when you stick the fork
in there to get the bagel out, it will light you up.

Well, that's why they call it a toaster.

On 1/31/2016 12:24 AM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.


As was stated, outlets have had designated sides for decades.

Even though it's "alternating current", here's a good explanation I
found online why it's best to properly put the wires where they belong.

Let's talk about cord plugs and their connection to light fixtures. As
you may know, most light fixtures have only two wires, a "hot" wire and
a neutral wire. Believe it or not, there is a right and wrong way to
connect these two wires, even though the light will light either way,
and here's why. If you ever followed the two wires up to the light
socket, you'd see that one connects to the inner bottom contact portion
of the light socket, where the bottom of the light bulb makes contact.
That is intended for the "hot" connection wire. The other wire is
connected to the screw portion of the bulb socket where the bulb screws
down into the socket, we'll call this the side of the socket and bulb
for visual purposes. Now let's just think about the dangers of hooking
the "hot wire to the side connection of the socket. See anything wrong
here yet? Now, visualize yourself unscrewing the bulb by grasping around
the lower portion of the bulb where the metal screw part of the bulb is
exposed. You unscrew the bulb a bit and then take a second grip of the
bulb and "BAM"! You got shocked! It's all because the screw part of the
bulb is now the "hot" connection and you became the path to ground.

On 01/31/2016 11:08 AM, Meanie wrote:

[snip]

Now, visualize yourself unscrewing the bulb by grasping around
the lower portion of the bulb where the metal screw part of the bulb is
exposed. You unscrew the bulb a bit and then take a second grip of the
bulb and "BAM"! You got shocked! It's all because the screw part of the
bulb is now the "hot" connection and you became the path to ground.

Also, there's a thin piece of paper between the screw contact and the
outer shell of the socket. That paper could be torn and/or bent making
the exposed part live.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"If Jesus loves me, why doesn't he ever send me flowers?"

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:

* the hot wire goes to the smaller slot in the
socket. Less likely to have foreign objects
stuck in the smaller slot. (Think kids with
metal objects.)

In about 1945 our milk was delivered to the house. The milk bottle had
a paper cover held in place by a wire. I was about five hears old, and
knew there was electricity in the outlet, and wire conducted
electricity. One morning I took the morning's milk wire and poked its
two ends into an outlet. The wire exploded and burned my fingers. I
think I had a "Near-Darwin" experience!

My parents built the house in 1942, and original outlets had silver and
copper sides. There was no ground terminal, but the silver side had a
wider slot. I think the silver-copper convention may go back to the
introduction of that style AC connector.

Fred

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 12:32:10 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 01/31/2016 11:08 AM, Meanie wrote:

[snip]

Now, visualize yourself unscrewing the bulb by grasping around
the lower portion of the bulb where the metal screw part of the bulb is
exposed. You unscrew the bulb a bit and then take a second grip of the
bulb and "BAM"! You got shocked! It's all because the screw part of the
bulb is now the "hot" connection and you became the path to ground.

Also, there's a thin piece of paper between the screw contact and the
outer shell of the socket. That paper could be torn and/or bent making
the exposed part live.

Or you could put 100 watt bulbs in a ceiling fixture rated for 60w.
with a glass globe around each bulb. After 20 years the plastic
around the metal socket crumbles and all you have is the metal
socket!!

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 12:25:04 AM UTC-5, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.

Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.

--
Usenet Reader for Android
http://android.newsgroupstats.hk

Ibelieve some of this goes back to the AM radio days, when tranformless radios first started appearing on store shelves.

one side was hot, the other side connected to the radios case, which worked fine with the transformer isolating the outside case.

no transformer no isolation ZAP

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 23:24:59 -0600, "dangerous dan"
wrote:

While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.

Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.
Always has been the differentiation, and for VERY good reason!!! One
side is referenced to ground - the other side is 120 volts above
ground potential. With polarized plugs or grounded outlets it is very
important which is which.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:56:32 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/31/2016 12:24 AM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.


Plugs should be polarized for proper grounding of appliances plugged
into the receptacle. You will also notice that plugs have one prong
larger to mate with the wider slot of the receptacle to everything is
properly polarized. Small prong is hot, wide is the neutral. Yes, your
lamp will light either way but you toaster may shock you if not properly
grounded.

If you look at lamp cords you will notice that one side looks a bit
different than the other side, usually ribbed. That is so if you splice
it or put a new end you can get it right. Smooth is the hot side, ribbed
is neutral.
And the "shell" of the socket goes to the neutral

On 1/31/2016 11:06 AM, wrote:



Trader summed it up nicely. If you have the polarity swapped on your
toaster, the switch is opening the neutral and when you stick the fork
in there to get the bagel out, it will light you up.


That Stormin guy said much the same. The toaster
shell should either be isolated, or grounded.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 3:13:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:56:32 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/31/2016 12:24 AM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.


Plugs should be polarized for proper grounding of appliances plugged
into the receptacle. You will also notice that plugs have one prong
larger to mate with the wider slot of the receptacle to everything is
properly polarized. Small prong is hot, wide is the neutral. Yes, your
lamp will light either way but you toaster may shock you if not properly
grounded.

If you look at lamp cords you will notice that one side looks a bit
different than the other side, usually ribbed. That is so if you splice
it or put a new end you can get it right. Smooth is the hot side, ribbed
is neutral.
And the "shell" of the socket goes to the neutral

What socket has a shell? WTF?

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:37:44 -0600, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 11:06 AM, wrote:



Trader summed it up nicely. If you have the polarity swapped on your
toaster, the switch is opening the neutral and when you stick the fork
in there to get the bagel out, it will light you up.


That Stormin guy said much the same. The toaster
shell should either be isolated, or grounded.

I read once toaster shells aren't grounded because of
what could happen if people hit the heating element pushing
the toast down. Forks? Knives?



--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 11:31:52 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

Ibelieve some of this goes back to the AM radio days, when
tranformless radios first started appearing on store shelves.

one side was hot, the other side connected to the radios case,
which worked fine with the transformer isolating the outside
case.

no transformer no isolation ZAP

I was probably around 14 years old when I got an old shortwave radio
which was probably made in the 40s. It had a metal case, which was
isolated from the metal chassis buy some rubber grommets. There was no
transformer. Those grommets had become brittle and the case was in
direct contact to that chassis.

Shortwave radios need an antenna and have a ground screw that needs to
be grounded to complete the antenna. I rigged up a piece of wire
outdoors, ran it to a tree for an antenna. Then I connected a piece of
wire from the GROUND screw to the screw holding the cover on the wall
outlet. The cord on that radio was obviously wired backwards. When I
plugged the radio in, that thin piece of wire I used for a ground wire,
instantly went up in smoke, and since it was right by the outlet where I
was plugging in the radio, that red hot wire fell on my hand and burned
right into my skin, before it blew the house fuse. I had burned deep
into my hand, leaving the melted insulation enbedded in my hand. That
was very painful.

My father was really ****ed off about it and after taking me to the
hospital, he said I could not play with electricity anymore. His brother
(my uncle) was an electrician. He looked at that radio and showed me
what was wrong. He wired it properly with a grounded cord, and told me
to replace those grommets before I ever consider plugging it in again.
I did that, and after my father calmed down (I think my uncle talked to
my father about it). When I tried the radio again, it worked fine.

That was a hard lesson to learn. But it could have been worse if a fire
had started. There was always a small reminder, because that wire left a
burn mark in the linoleum below that outlet, and another burn in the
wooden table the radio was on. (The outlet cover plate had to be
replaced since it was all charred too. My uncle did that, and might have
replaced the outlet too).

I still have that radio, even though I have not used it in years. It
brings back good memories of my youth and bad memories of that incident,
but a BIG LESSON in electrical safety.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 18:12:43 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:37:44 -0600, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 11:06 AM, wrote:



Trader summed it up nicely. If you have the polarity swapped on your
toaster, the switch is opening the neutral and when you stick the fork
in there to get the bagel out, it will light you up.


That Stormin guy said much the same. The toaster
shell should either be isolated, or grounded.

I read once toaster shells aren't grounded because of
what could happen if people hit the heating element pushing
the toast down. Forks? Knives?

People who stick metal forks, knives, etc into toasters, should be sent
to the electric chair, because they are too stupid to deserve to be
alive!

On 1/31/2016 7:12 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:37:44 -0600, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 11:06 AM, wrote:



Trader summed it up nicely. If you have the polarity swapped on your
toaster, the switch is opening the neutral and when you stick the fork
in there to get the bagel out, it will light you up.


That Stormin guy said much the same. The toaster
shell should either be isolated, or grounded.

I read once toaster shells aren't grounded because of
what could happen if people hit the heating element pushing
the toast down. Forks? Knives?



Could be isolated. I've never put a VOM on a
toaster, might do that some day for raw
excitement. My toaster has two wire cord and
plug, so the shell is probably isolated. Does
anyone have a three wire corded toaster to test?


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 18:39:10 -0600, wrote:

I was probably around 14 years old when I got an old shortwave radio
which was probably made in the 40s.

There were plenty of "hot chassis" electronics made before the
transistors started showing up. I had a tv that would light you up if
a knob fell off and you touched the shaft. After a while I figured out
I should flip the plug. They may have had NEMA 1-15 receptacles but
the plugs were not.

On 1/31/16 6:02 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 3:13:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:56:32 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/31/2016 12:24 AM, dangerous dan wrote:
While looking at this wall plug, I noticed it has a designated side for
white wire, and a designated side for black wire. In the past I never
saw that on a plug and just put it on whichever side was handy.
Is there a valid reason for putting a specific color wire on a specific
side? I personally wouldn't think so, but maybe an electrician would
know a reason, or someone more knowledgeable.


Plugs should be polarized for proper grounding of appliances plugged
into the receptacle. You will also notice that plugs have one prong
larger to mate with the wider slot of the receptacle to everything is
properly polarized. Small prong is hot, wide is the neutral. Yes, your
lamp will light either way but you toaster may shock you if not properly
grounded.

If you look at lamp cords you will notice that one side looks a bit
different than the other side, usually ribbed. That is so if you splice
it or put a new end you can get it right. Smooth is the hot side, ribbed
is neutral.
And the "shell" of the socket goes to the neutral

What socket has a shell? WTF?


This kind :

http://hostedmedia.reimanpub.com/TFH..._REPTBL_02.JPG

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:42:19 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 7:12 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:37:44 -0600, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 11:06 AM, wrote:



Trader summed it up nicely. If you have the polarity swapped on your
toaster, the switch is opening the neutral and when you stick the fork
in there to get the bagel out, it will light you up.


That Stormin guy said much the same. The toaster
shell should either be isolated, or grounded.

I read once toaster shells aren't grounded because of
what could happen if people hit the heating element pushing
the toast down. Forks? Knives?



Could be isolated. I've never put a VOM on a
toaster, might do that some day for raw
excitement. My toaster has two wire cord and
plug, so the shell is probably isolated. Does
anyone have a three wire corded toaster to test?
With the possible exception of a commercial unit I don't think there
has been a grounded toaster sold in North America in over 40 years -
and I have NEVER seen one that was not isolated from the factory..
Some of the better ones even switched both wires years ago.

On 2016-01-31 8:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:42:19 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 7:12 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:37:44 -0600, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 11:06 AM, wrote:



Trader summed it up nicely. If you have the polarity swapped on your
toaster, the switch is opening the neutral and when you stick the fork
in there to get the bagel out, it will light you up.


That Stormin guy said much the same. The toaster
shell should either be isolated, or grounded.

I read once toaster shells aren't grounded because of
what could happen if people hit the heating element pushing
the toast down. Forks? Knives?



Could be isolated. I've never put a VOM on a
toaster, might do that some day for raw
excitement. My toaster has two wire cord and
plug, so the shell is probably isolated. Does
anyone have a three wire corded toaster to test?
With the possible exception of a commercial unit I don't think there
has been a grounded toaster sold in North America in over 40 years -
and I have NEVER seen one that was not isolated from the factory..
Some of the better ones even switched both wires years ago.


Years ago my mother complained about being shocked when doing dishes,
checking out the situation I found if a metal pan in the dish rack was
touching the toaster and you touch it and the sink you got zapped.
Using a meter there was 120V between the toaster and the sink,
non-polarized plug, reverse the plug and no problems.

Replaced the plug with a three prong to prevent reversing the plug.

--

Stormin wrote:
On 1/31/2016 11:06 AM, wrote:


Trader summed it up nicely. If you have the polarity swapped on your
toaster, the switch is opening the neutral and when you stick the fork
in there to get the bagel out, it will light you up.

That Stormin guy said much the same. The toaster
shell should either be isolated, or grounded.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.
If someone is stupid enough to stick a fork in a toaster when it's plugged in, they get what they deserve. I want to watch.

--
Usenet Reader for Android
http://android.newsgroupstats.hk

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 22:43:02 -0600, "dangerous dan"
wrote:

If someone is stupid enough to stick a fork in a toaster when it's plugged in, they get what they deserve. I want to watch.

If nobody ever did anything dumb, we could eliminate about half of the
electric code.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 20:00:10 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 18:39:10 -0600, wrote:

I was probably around 14 years old when I got an old shortwave radio
which was probably made in the 40s.

There were plenty of "hot chassis" electronics made before the
transistors started showing up. I had a tv that would light you up if
a knob fell off and you touched the shaft. After a while I figured out
I should flip the plug. They may have had NEMA 1-15 receptacles but
the plugs were not.

Yep, I still find it sort of amazing they even allowed such things.
Sure, the elec codes were much less than they are now, but they still
had codes and those live chassis were simply dangerous. At the very
minimum, they could have used polarized plugs, which would not have
added any cost to the device, since they had to install some sort of
plug anyhow.

I wonder how many people died from electrocution back then? It's just
like I was talking to an old farmer who was my neighbor before he passed
away at the age of 90 something. He was telling me when he ran a hog
farm on that property (where he still lived). He constantly spoke about
hogs getting electrocuted. One day I got to see his barn, and I was
shocked at what I saw of the wiring in there. Wires with bare copper
exposed, switches and outlets just hanging by some wires (no box) with a
little electrical tape around the screws, lamp cord attached to stock
tank heaters, and so on.... UNBELIEVABLE!

After he died, the new owner of that farm cut the wires going to that
barn the same day he moved in. He had an electrician rewire the house
immediately. Eventually he had the barn and other sheds rewired too.

On 01/31/2016 09:43 PM, dangerous dan wrote:
If someone is stupid enough to stick a fork in a toaster when it's plugged in, they get what they deserve. I want to watch.

Have you checked youtube?

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 10:11:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:42:19 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 7:12 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:37:44 -0600, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 11:06 AM, wrote:



Trader summed it up nicely. If you have the polarity swapped on your
toaster, the switch is opening the neutral and when you stick the fork
in there to get the bagel out, it will light you up.


That Stormin guy said much the same. The toaster
shell should either be isolated, or grounded.

I read once toaster shells aren't grounded because of
what could happen if people hit the heating element pushing
the toast down. Forks? Knives?



Could be isolated. I've never put a VOM on a
toaster, might do that some day for raw
excitement. My toaster has two wire cord and
plug, so the shell is probably isolated. Does
anyone have a three wire corded toaster to test?
With the possible exception of a commercial unit I don't think there
has been a grounded toaster sold in North America in over 40 years -
and I have NEVER seen one that was not isolated from the factory..
Some of the better ones even switched both wires years ago.

Does switching both wires increase the chance of GFCI's tripping?

I'm picturing a situation where there's a lag between the opening of hot
vs. the neutral. Wouldn't the GFCI sense that?

On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 01:26:26 -0600, wrote:

There were plenty of "hot chassis" electronics made before the
transistors started showing up. I had a tv that would light you up if
a knob fell off and you touched the shaft. After a while I figured out
I should flip the plug. They may have had NEMA 1-15 receptacles but
the plugs were not.

Yep, I still find it sort of amazing they even allowed such things.
Sure, the elec codes were much less than they are now, but they still
had codes and those live chassis were simply dangerous. At the very
minimum, they could have used polarized plugs, which would not have
added any cost to the device, since they had to install some sort of
plug anyhow.

The problem was the number of non polarized receptacles out there. The
3d house I lived in was built in 1953 and it did not have them. I
don't really remember 1-15s (polarized 2 wire) until after the 5-15 (3
wire) was available and used in commercial.

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 08:17:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 10:11:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:42:19 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 7:12 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:37:44 -0600, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 11:06 AM, wrote:



Trader summed it up nicely. If you have the polarity swapped on your
toaster, the switch is opening the neutral and when you stick the fork
in there to get the bagel out, it will light you up.


That Stormin guy said much the same. The toaster
shell should either be isolated, or grounded.

I read once toaster shells aren't grounded because of
what could happen if people hit the heating element pushing
the toast down. Forks? Knives?



Could be isolated. I've never put a VOM on a
toaster, might do that some day for raw
excitement. My toaster has two wire cord and
plug, so the shell is probably isolated. Does
anyone have a three wire corded toaster to test?
With the possible exception of a commercial unit I don't think there
has been a grounded toaster sold in North America in over 40 years -
and I have NEVER seen one that was not isolated from the factory..
Some of the better ones even switched both wires years ago.

Does switching both wires increase the chance of GFCI's tripping?

I'm picturing a situation where there's a lag between the opening of hot
vs. the neutral. Wouldn't the GFCI sense that?

Nope. Dr Kirchoff says the current in a circuit is equal everywhere if
there is only one path. When the first switch opens, the current
stops.

On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 11:58:26 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 08:17:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 10:11:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:42:19 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 7:12 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:37:44 -0600, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/31/2016 11:06 AM, wrote:



Trader summed it up nicely. If you have the polarity swapped on your
toaster, the switch is opening the neutral and when you stick the fork
in there to get the bagel out, it will light you up.


That Stormin guy said much the same. The toaster
shell should either be isolated, or grounded.

I read once toaster shells aren't grounded because of
what could happen if people hit the heating element pushing
the toast down. Forks? Knives?



Could be isolated. I've never put a VOM on a
toaster, might do that some day for raw
excitement. My toaster has two wire cord and
plug, so the shell is probably isolated. Does
anyone have a three wire corded toaster to test?
With the possible exception of a commercial unit I don't think there
has been a grounded toaster sold in North America in over 40 years -
and I have NEVER seen one that was not isolated from the factory..
Some of the better ones even switched both wires years ago.

Does switching both wires increase the chance of GFCI's tripping?

I'm picturing a situation where there's a lag between the opening of hot
vs. the neutral. Wouldn't the GFCI sense that?

Nope. Dr Kirchoff says the current in a circuit is equal everywhere if
there is only one path. When the first switch opens, the current
stops.

+1

wrote in message
...
Does switching both wires increase the chance of GFCI's tripping?

I'm picturing a situation where there's a lag between the opening of hot
vs. the neutral. Wouldn't the GFCI sense that?

Nope. Dr Kirchoff says the current in a circuit is equal everywhere if
there is only one path. When the first switch opens, the current
stops.

That is only for steady state. When a switch first opens or closes there
is a short time before the current reaches that point depending on how much
inductance or capacitance is in the circuit. As the electricity will travel
around the earth about 7 times in one second there is a small but usually
too small of a time for most simple circuits to mater.

I doubt that any GFCI or arc sense type of breaker would be designed fast
enough to detect that.