Per trader_4:
. And last time I checked,
Sarah Palin never ran for president

My bad... left out the "Vice-". Call it a mental typo....

But she was offered up as a VP candidate, to become a heartbeat (or
heart failure) away from the presidency.....

I don't think there any fools on the Republican National Committee, and
if they offered up the likes of Sarah Palin, I think that reflects a
realistic assessment of the electorate.

I was halfway ready to vote for McCain, but his acceptance of Palin as
his running mate put that to rest.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 7:45:50 AM UTC-8, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

I was halfway ready to vote for McCain, but his acceptance of Palin as
his running mate put that to rest.
--
Pete Cresswell

John McCain and Colin Powell WERE the only two GOPers I had any respect for @ all.
And then there was one

On 01/12/2016 07:59 AM, Shade Tree Guy wrote:
On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 7:45:50 AM UTC-8, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

I was halfway ready to vote for McCain, but his acceptance of Palin as
his running mate put that to rest.
--
Pete Cresswell

John McCain and Colin Powell WERE the only two GOPers I had any respect for @ all.
And then there was one


I wish those two RINOs would just change their party. That
would be much more intellectually honest!

You Dems have your own party. Why keep trying to co-opts
ours!

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:09:13 -0800, T wrote:

I wish those two RINOs would just change their party. That
would be much more intellectually honest!

You Dems have your own party. Why keep trying to co-opts
ours!

Todd,

I've started thinking (I know that is dangerous) but you sound like a
DINO to get Trump nominated so Hillary can win.
--
"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.-- James Madison

On 01/13/2016 04:00 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:09:13 -0800, T wrote:

I wish those two RINOs would just change their party. That
would be much more intellectually honest!

You Dems have your own party. Why keep trying to co-opts
ours!

Todd,

I've started thinking (I know that is dangerous) but you sound like a
DINO to get Trump nominated so Hillary can win.



Hi Oren,

I seriously do not think Hillary will be their candidate! She
is going to jail as soon as she gets enough delegates to
throw a brokered convention.

Don't buy Lefties and RINO's cool aide. They say the only way,
the Republicans can win is to run someone more like the Dems.
Every time we have done that we lose. Think John McCain
(RINO-AZ) anbd Mitt Romney (RINO-MA). Hell Bush W. (RINO-TX)
just barely squeaked by Al Gore who is a lunatic!

And if you don't like Trump, Cruz (R-TX) is a real republican.

-T

Per T:
And if you don't like Trump, Cruz (R-TX) is a real republican.

Do you think Cruz actually meant it when he called for carpet-bombing
ISIS-held areas ?

""We will carpet bomb [ISIS] into oblivion. I don’t know if sand can
glow in the dark, but we’re going to find out..."

i.e. as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing
--
Pete Cresswell

On 01/13/2016 04:28 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per T:
And if you don't like Trump, Cruz (R-TX) is a real republican.

Do you think Cruz actually meant it when he called for carpet-bombing
ISIS-held areas ?

I am a Vietnam era vet. I know what carpet bombing is.

And yes I hope Cruz (R-TX) meant it.

And I don't think he or Trump (R-NY), who said he would bomb
the hell out of them, were saying exactly how they would do
it. I believe both were saying they would take ISIS very
seriously.

Right now, under Dear Leader, more that 70% of our bombers
come back without dropping ordnance as they can't get
permission from the pansy in chief. What an embarrassment!


""We will carpet bomb [ISIS] into oblivion. I don’t know if sand can
glow in the dark, but we’re going to find out..."

i.e. as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing

Per T:
I am a Vietnam era vet. I know what carpet bombing is.

Would you agree that carpet bombing is total destruction of an area
without any regard to civilian casualties?

If so, and if one accepts the fact that ISIS embeds itself into the
civilian population, it would seem that Cruz is basically advocating
butchery...... and getting substantial boosts in the polls out of it.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 8:23:33 AM UTC-6, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per T:
I am a Vietnam era vet. I know what carpet bombing is.

Would you agree that carpet bombing is total destruction of an area
without any regard to civilian casualties?

If so, and if one accepts the fact that ISIS embeds itself into the
civilian population, it would seem that Cruz is basically advocating
butchery...... and getting substantial boosts in the polls out of it.
--
Pete Cresswell

The Islamofascists we're dealing with place little or no value on human life. They will setup anti-aircraft guns at schools and hospitals knowing full well that military personell from Western cultures never want to kill innocent people, especially women and children. They also know that mosques are off the target list and take advantage of that. The enemy views compassion and the reluctance to kill noncombatants as a weakness to be exploited. They don't care about the loss of life of helpless people and will slaughter them every time they have chance to do so. So tell me, how would you deal with such evil people? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Horrified Monster

On 01/15/2016 03:52 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 8:23:33 AM UTC-6, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per T:
I am a Vietnam era vet. I know what carpet bombing is.

Would you agree that carpet bombing is total destruction of an area
without any regard to civilian casualties?

If so, and if one accepts the fact that ISIS embeds itself into the
civilian population, it would seem that Cruz is basically advocating
butchery...... and getting substantial boosts in the polls out of it.
--
Pete Cresswell

The Islamofascists we're dealing with place little or no value on human life. They will setup anti-aircraft guns at schools and hospitals knowing full well that military personell from Western cultures never want to kill innocent people, especially women and children. They also know that mosques are off the target list and take advantage of that. The enemy views compassion and the reluctance to kill noncombatants as a weakness to be exploited. They don't care about the loss of life of helpless people and will slaughter them every time they have chance to do so. So tell me, how would you deal with such evil people? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Horrified Monster


You have to go after them anyway. Soon as they see it doesn't
help them, they will stop. It is a numbers game. Kill
a few non combatants versus them continuing their demonstrated
pattern of butchery.

And it totally sucks to be the one to have to give that order.

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 3:19:58 PM UTC-6, T wrote:
On 01/15/2016 03:52 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 8:23:33 AM UTC-6, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per T:
I am a Vietnam era vet. I know what carpet bombing is.

Would you agree that carpet bombing is total destruction of an area
without any regard to civilian casualties?

If so, and if one accepts the fact that ISIS embeds itself into the
civilian population, it would seem that Cruz is basically advocating
butchery...... and getting substantial boosts in the polls out of it.
--
Pete Cresswell

The Islamofascists we're dealing with place little or no value on human life. They will setup anti-aircraft guns at schools and hospitals knowing full well that military personell from Western cultures never want to kill innocent people, especially women and children. They also know that mosques are off the target list and take advantage of that. The enemy views compassion and the reluctance to kill noncombatants as a weakness to be exploited.. They don't care about the loss of life of helpless people and will slaughter them every time they have chance to do so. So tell me, how would you deal with such evil people? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Horrified Monster


You have to go after them anyway. Soon as they see it doesn't
help them, they will stop. It is a numbers game. Kill
a few non combatants versus them continuing their demonstrated
pattern of butchery.

And it totally sucks to be the one to have to give that order.

Would you think that it bothers American bomber pilots when they believe the target has innocent civilians who could be killed because they are to close to the action? From what I've read it certainly does. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Targeted Monster

Per Uncle Monster:
Would you think that it bothers American bomber pilots when they believe the target has
innocent civilians who could be killed because they are to close to the action?
From what I've read it certainly does.

Then maybe attitudes/beliefs have changed since the firebombing/carpet
bombing of Dresden.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 01/15/2016 10:00 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 3:19:58 PM UTC-6, T wrote:
On 01/15/2016 03:52 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 8:23:33 AM UTC-6, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per T:
I am a Vietnam era vet. I know what carpet bombing is.

Would you agree that carpet bombing is total destruction of an area
without any regard to civilian casualties?

If so, and if one accepts the fact that ISIS embeds itself into the
civilian population, it would seem that Cruz is basically advocating
butchery...... and getting substantial boosts in the polls out of it.
--
Pete Cresswell

The Islamofascists we're dealing with place little or no value on human life. They will setup anti-aircraft guns at schools and hospitals knowing full well that military personell from Western cultures never want to kill innocent people, especially women and children. They also know that mosques are off the target list and take advantage of that. The enemy views compassion and the reluctance to kill noncombatants as a weakness to be exploited. They don't care about the loss of life of helpless people and will slaughter them every time they have chance to do so. So tell me, how would you deal with such evil people? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Horrified Monster


You have to go after them anyway. Soon as they see it doesn't
help them, they will stop. It is a numbers game. Kill
a few non combatants versus them continuing their demonstrated
pattern of butchery.

And it totally sucks to be the one to have to give that order.

Would you think that it bothers American bomber pilots when they believe the target has innocent civilians who could be killed because they are to close to the action? From what I've read it certainly does. o_O

More than you could ever imagine

On Saturday, January 16, 2016 at 9:21:47 AM UTC-6, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Uncle Monster:
Would you think that it bothers American bomber pilots when they believe the target has
innocent civilians who could be killed because they are to close to the action?
From what I've read it certainly does.

Then maybe attitudes/beliefs have changed since the firebombing/carpet
bombing of Dresden.
--
Pete Cresswell

The bombing of Dresden was awful because it wasn't a military target or even had anti aircraft defenses. One of the only reasons I can think of that it would be attacked was because it was a German city and the Allies were at war with Germany and from what I've read it was meant to shock Germany like the atomic bomb attacks on Japan. The kind of war being fought now is not being fought against the uniformed armies of an Axis like coalition. It's a non-conventional war where the enemy doesn't follow any rules of war and uses the innocent people of areas they invade as human shields. Should the U.S. military destroy cities that ISIS has invaded or should our military work with the people in the country who oppose ISIS? Of course U.S. bombers could completely wipe out a few ISIS infested cities to let ISIS know they can't hide behind noncombatants anymore. o_O

[8~{} Uncle City Monster

Per Uncle Monster:
The bombing of Dresden was awful because it wasn't a military target or even had anti aircraft defenses.

Compounded by the fact that thousands upon thousands of refugees from
the Soviet army's advances in The East were taking refuge here - only to
be burned alive.

I get the sense that, after the war, at least some Germans tended to
keep quiet on the subject because their consciences told them that, as a
people, they deserved it.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 01/17/2016 04:41 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
The bombing of Dresden was awful because it wasn't a military target or even had anti aircraft defenses. One of the only reasons I can think of that it would be attacked was because it was a German city and the Allies were at war with Germany and from what I've read it was meant to shock Germany like the atomic bomb attacks on Japan.

Dresden is the most famous but many small towns were bombed during the
last days of the war. The Allies had the bombs and the planes and were
working down the checklist of places they hadn't bombed.

On 01/17/2016 09:32 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I get the sense that, after the war, at least some Germans tended to
keep quiet on the subject because their consciences told them that, as a
people, they deserved it.

There was some sort of collective guilt that hasn't quite worn off,
unfortunately. Besides, the winners control the story. Ever hear of the
Cap Arcona?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Cap_Arcona_%281927%29

Isn't that a kick in the butt? Survive the prison camps in the east only
to die one day before Germany's unconditional surrender when the RAF
sinks your ship.

"RAF Pilot Allan Wyse of No. 193 Squadron recalled, "We used our cannon
fire at the chaps in the water... we shot them up with 20 mm cannons in
the water. Horrible thing, but we were told to do it and we did it.
That's war."

Don't expect a movie starring Leonard DiCaprio anytime soon.

Per rbowman:
Ever hear of the
Cap Arcona?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Cap_Arcona_%281927%29

Isn't that a kick in the butt? Survive the prison camps in the east only
to die one day before Germany's unconditional surrender when the RAF
sinks your ship.

Never had heard of it.

Now I have.

Part of me wishes I had not...
--
Pete Cresswell

On Sunday, January 17, 2016 at 10:32:53 AM UTC-6, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Uncle Monster:
The bombing of Dresden was awful because it wasn't a military target or even had anti aircraft defenses.

Compounded by the fact that thousands upon thousands of refugees from
the Soviet army's advances in The East were taking refuge here - only to
be burned alive.

I get the sense that, after the war, at least some Germans tended to
keep quiet on the subject because their consciences told them that, as a
people, they deserved it.
--
Pete Cresswell

War is hell and any decent man will be appalled by it but anyone who feels nothing when they see the broken, bloody bodies of children is inhuman and doesn't deserve any mercy. Those ISIS animals slaughter children without a second thought and the only way to handle them is to kill them all. Keep no prisoners, torture them then kill them in the most painful way possible after interrogation. The best way to deal with terrorists is to out terror them. _

[8~{} Uncle Avenging Monster

On Sunday, January 17, 2016 at 2:37:20 PM UTC-6, rbowman wrote:
On 01/17/2016 04:41 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
The bombing of Dresden was awful because it wasn't a military target or even had anti aircraft defenses. One of the only reasons I can think of that it would be attacked was because it was a German city and the Allies were at war with Germany and from what I've read it was meant to shock Germany like the atomic bomb attacks on Japan.

Dresden is the most famous but many small towns were bombed during the
last days of the war. The Allies had the bombs and the planes and were
working down the checklist of places they hadn't bombed.

War is hell and no sane person wants it but you must be prepared to defend your country and wipe out the enemy. o_O

[8~{} Uncle War Monster

"rbowman" wrote in message

stuff snipped

Dresden is the most famous but many small towns were bombed during the
last days of the war. The Allies had the bombs and the planes and were
working down the checklist of places they hadn't bombed.

Sadly, that included bombing and shooting down Allies:

http://militaryhistorynow.com/2012/0...world-war-two/

The plan, codenamed Cobra, originally called for British and American
planes to drop their payloads as they flew east to west along the length of
the enemy lines. Instead, the aircraft came in from the north and unloaded
on both the Americans and Germans simultaneously.[2] Low cloud cover
prevented the pilots from spotting the friendly forces on the ground.
Amazingly, the disaster was a repeat of a similar debacle that occurred only
the day before in which 25 Americans were killed. Among the dead on the
second day’s raid was Lt. Gen. Leslie McNair. He would turn out to be the
highest ranking American officer killed in battle in the entire war
(ironically a victim of friendly fire). Out of sheer rage, American troops
knowingly opened fire on their own planes following the incident.

But we weren't alone. The Nazis bombed their own troops at the very end:

Planned to support the two-week old Ardennes Offensive (aka The Battle of
the Bugle), the German high command scraped together the last remaining
fighters and bombers for one final aerial blitz aimed at reigniting the
stalled push into Belgium. The operation called for 900 aircraft to strike
at British and American airfields in the region. Unfortunately, the plan was
kept so secret that not even Axis units operating in the area were aware
that it was taking place. Assuming the planes suddenly overhead were British
and American, German anti-aircraft batteries along the front opened fire on
the planes. In all, 300 aircraft were destroyed and more than 200 pilots
died. It was the largest loss ever suffered by the Luftwaffe in a single
day.

--
Bobby G.

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 12:21:55 AM UTC-5, T wrote:
On 01/14/2016 06:23 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per T:
I am a Vietnam era vet. I know what carpet bombing is.

Would you agree that carpet bombing is total destruction of an area
without any regard to civilian casualties?

If so, and if one accepts the fact that ISIS embeds itself into the
civilian population, it would seem that Cruz is basically advocating
butchery...... and getting substantial boosts in the polls out of it.


Hi Pete,

How about you adding up the civilian deaths by going after these
*******s versus the deaths their continued existence will and
has caused?


That doesn't make carpet bombing the only solution or even an
acceptable solution. The deaths of civilians are now on the hands
of ISIS. Do you really want massive civilian deaths on the hands
of the USA? Pictures of dead women and children from American B52's?
How is that any different than the war crimes Assad is committing
by dropping barrel bombs in civilian areas?


Those that hide in the civilian population are the ones morally
responsible for their safety, not those that go after them.
You are confusing the two.


Going after them with reasonable means and carpet bombing are
two very different things.




It totally sucks if you the one who has to give the order, but
that is what a real leader is all about. I would add "what
a real man is all about".


So, carpet bombing makes you a man. How interesting.

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 4:19:58 PM UTC-5, T wrote:
On 01/15/2016 03:52 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 8:23:33 AM UTC-6, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per T:
I am a Vietnam era vet. I know what carpet bombing is.

Would you agree that carpet bombing is total destruction of an area
without any regard to civilian casualties?

If so, and if one accepts the fact that ISIS embeds itself into the
civilian population, it would seem that Cruz is basically advocating
butchery...... and getting substantial boosts in the polls out of it.
--
Pete Cresswell

The Islamofascists we're dealing with place little or no value on human life. They will setup anti-aircraft guns at schools and hospitals knowing full well that military personell from Western cultures never want to kill innocent people, especially women and children. They also know that mosques are off the target list and take advantage of that. The enemy views compassion and the reluctance to kill noncombatants as a weakness to be exploited.. They don't care about the loss of life of helpless people and will slaughter them every time they have chance to do so. So tell me, how would you deal with such evil people? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Horrified Monster


You have to go after them anyway. Soon as they see it doesn't
help them, they will stop. It is a numbers game. Kill
a few non combatants versus them continuing their demonstrated
pattern of butchery.


Killing a few non-comatants carpet bombing.



And it totally sucks to be the one to have to give that order.

Sound's like Cruz is looking forward to it.

On Monday, January 18, 2016 at 8:22:10 AM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 12:21:55 AM UTC-5, T wrote:
On 01/14/2016 06:23 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per T:
I am a Vietnam era vet. I know what carpet bombing is.

Would you agree that carpet bombing is total destruction of an area
without any regard to civilian casualties?

If so, and if one accepts the fact that ISIS embeds itself into the
civilian population, it would seem that Cruz is basically advocating
butchery...... and getting substantial boosts in the polls out of it.

Hi Pete,

How about you adding up the civilian deaths by going after these
*******s versus the deaths their continued existence will and
has caused?

That doesn't make carpet bombing the only solution or even an
acceptable solution. The deaths of civilians are now on the hands
of ISIS. Do you really want massive civilian deaths on the hands
of the USA? Pictures of dead women and children from American B52's?
How is that any different than the war crimes Assad is committing
by dropping barrel bombs in civilian areas?

Those that hide in the civilian population are the ones morally
responsible for their safety, not those that go after them.
You are confusing the two.

Going after them with reasonable means and carpet bombing are
two very different things.

It totally sucks if you the one who has to give the order, but
that is what a real leader is all about. I would add "what
a real man is all about".

So, carpet bombing makes you a man. How interesting.

The military has something now that was not available in WWII or Vietnam. It's PGM, Precision Guided Munition which in most cases make carpet bombing unnecessary. It's my understanding that an attacking aircraft can send one through the window of a building. From what I've read, the military is using what's called a small diameter bomb because less explosive is needed for a precision strike. PGM's are supposed to limit collateral damage by design.. ^_^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision-guided_munition

[8~{} Uncle Guided Monster

On 01/19/2016 01:19 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
The military has something now that was not available in WWII or Vietnam. It's PGM, Precision Guided Munition which in most cases make carpet bombing unnecessary. It's my understanding that an attacking aircraft can send one through the window of a building. From what I've read, the military is using what's called a small diameter bomb because less explosive is needed for a precision strike. PGM's are supposed to limit collateral damage by design. ^_^

Yes, I was Air Force when they started to get good at PGM's.
Being able to hit what you bomb turned war on its head.

There is a place for both, especially when the enemy spreads out to
nullify the effect of PGM's.

Also remember, in the words of General Patton, the one who musters
the most violence, wins.

ISIS needs to think hell has opened up upon the heads. All day
and all night, ISIS needs to be ****ting in their pants over
the noise of constant, unrelenting explosions. What we
don't hit needs to get no sleep and be scared out of their
minds.

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 7:00:51 AM UTC-5, T wrote:
On 01/19/2016 01:19 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
The military has something now that was not available in WWII or Vietnam. It's PGM, Precision Guided Munition which in most cases make carpet bombing unnecessary. It's my understanding that an attacking aircraft can send one through the window of a building. From what I've read, the military is using what's called a small diameter bomb because less explosive is needed for a precision strike. PGM's are supposed to limit collateral damage by design. ^_^

Yes, I was Air Force when they started to get good at PGM's.
Being able to hit what you bomb turned war on its head.

There is a place for both, especially when the enemy spreads out to
nullify the effect of PGM's.

Also remember, in the words of General Patton, the one who musters
the most violence, wins.

ISIS needs to think hell has opened up upon the heads. All day
and all night, ISIS needs to be ****ting in their pants over
the noise of constant, unrelenting explosions. What we
don't hit needs to get no sleep and be scared out of their
minds.

What you fail to recognize is that you don't have an ISIS army
in the desert with troops, tanks, artillery, massed where carpet
bombing could work. You had that in Iraq, with the first Gulf
War, so it was possible and it was done. What you have now is
ISIS intermixed in cities with the overwhelming numbers of
people being civilians. ISIS is actually the government of
those cities now. Carpet bombing in that context would be another
Dresden or Tokyo, which is exactly what ISIS would like.

And note that bombing really hasn't been able to solve the Muslim
terrorist problem. They are in many countries and just spring up
again. To some extent, there is truth in many people saying that
the more you get involved, the more the US bombs, the more Muslims
around the world want to join the radicals.

On 01/19/2016 02:19 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
The military has something now that was not available in WWII or Vietnam. It's PGM, Precision Guided Munition which in most cases make carpet bombing unnecessary. It's my understanding that an attacking aircraft can send one through the window of a building.

Chinese embassies, Doctors Without Borders hospitals, ...

"rbowman" wrote in message
stuff snipped

PGMs

Chinese embassies, Doctors Without Borders hospitals, ...

There are always outliers. (-: The unforseen problem of PGMs and drones is
that we've gone from people accepting wartime collateral damage to them
expecting now that there won't ever be any.

Besides, the Chinese were probably trying to jam our guidance systems and
deserved what they got. Some people believe DWB patches up wounded enemy
combatants and deserve what *they* got.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015...ital-airstrike

In a report released Thursday, Doctors Without Borders acknowledged that
the hospital was treating "wounded combatants from both sides of the
conflict in Kunduz."

All in all, PGM's have made some of the political aspects of war more
difficult even though they ironically (mostly) greatly reduce collateral
civilian damage. Just like most people expect every medical surgery to go
without a hitch, they expect the same of "surgical strikes." That won't
happen until we radio collar or chip our enemies. (-:

--
Bobby G. (How do you tell VC from non-VC? If he runs he's VC, if he stands
still, he's well-disciplined VC - FMJ)

Uncle Monster posted for all of us...



On Monday, January 18, 2016 at 8:22:10 AM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 12:21:55 AM UTC-5, T wrote:
On 01/14/2016 06:23 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per T:
I am a Vietnam era vet. I know what carpet bombing is.

Would you agree that carpet bombing is total destruction of an area
without any regard to civilian casualties?

If so, and if one accepts the fact that ISIS embeds itself into the
civilian population, it would seem that Cruz is basically advocating
butchery...... and getting substantial boosts in the polls out of it.

Hi Pete,

How about you adding up the civilian deaths by going after these
*******s versus the deaths their continued existence will and
has caused?

That doesn't make carpet bombing the only solution or even an
acceptable solution. The deaths of civilians are now on the hands
of ISIS. Do you really want massive civilian deaths on the hands
of the USA? Pictures of dead women and children from American B52's?
How is that any different than the war crimes Assad is committing
by dropping barrel bombs in civilian areas?

Those that hide in the civilian population are the ones morally
responsible for their safety, not those that go after them.
You are confusing the two.

Going after them with reasonable means and carpet bombing are
two very different things.

It totally sucks if you the one who has to give the order, but
that is what a real leader is all about. I would add "what
a real man is all about".

So, carpet bombing makes you a man. How interesting.

The military has something now that was not available in WWII or Vietnam. It's PGM, Precision Guided Munition which in most cases make carpet bombing unnecessary. It's my understanding that an attacking aircraft can send one through the window of a building. From what I've read, the military is using what's called a small diameter bomb because less explosive is needed for a precision strike. PGM's are supposed to limit collateral damage by design.
^_^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision-guided_munition

[8~{} Uncle Guided Monster

I think Muggles will be glad to know this because the black helos are coming
for greenhouses.

--
Tekkie

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 6:00:51 AM UTC-6, T wrote:
On 01/19/2016 01:19 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
The military has something now that was not available in WWII or Vietnam. It's PGM, Precision Guided Munition which in most cases make carpet bombing unnecessary. It's my understanding that an attacking aircraft can send one through the window of a building. From what I've read, the military is using what's called a small diameter bomb because less explosive is needed for a precision strike. PGM's are supposed to limit collateral damage by design. ^_^

Yes, I was Air Force when they started to get good at PGM's.
Being able to hit what you bomb turned war on its head.

There is a place for both, especially when the enemy spreads out to
nullify the effect of PGM's.

Also remember, in the words of General Patton, the one who musters
the most violence, wins.

ISIS needs to think hell has opened up upon the heads. All day
and all night, ISIS needs to be ****ting in their pants over
the noise of constant, unrelenting explosions. What we
don't hit needs to get no sleep and be scared out of their
minds.

If they had a specific base of operations that wasn't in the middle of a population of noncombatants, I'd level their base. The thing to do now is to wipe out their source of income like the oilfields and or refineries they control. They're looting the areas they invade and selling the items to finance their operations. It might be necessary to go after the people who are buying the stolen items and artifacts from the museums looted by ISIS. What ISIS is doing to the population demonstrates why our Second Amendment is so important to us Americans. Imagine what would happen if the people of the areas ISIS invaded were all armed with AK-47's. ISIS doesn't do so well when it meets armed resistance. A good thing to do would be to arm the Christians to make sure they can defend themselves. Hell, hit ISIS with IED's and all the other crap that was being used against U.S. and Coalition Forces. A convoy of unarmored Toyota pickups with ISIS fighters hanging off of them would be a good target for multiple IED's and claymore mines. If special forces are sent in to train the people, how will they vet the people they are going to train? The Syrians tell of ISIS spies everywhere which is why they can't trust anyone. Just an accusation of wrongdoing can get someone tortured and killed. ISIS went into Syria and made big promises of justice and equality for all Muslims but hope quickly faded as Syrians who have escaped ISIS controlled areas have been telling reporters. o_O

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...ignout#image=1

http://tinyurl.com/zea2lc8

[8~{} Uncle Terrorist Monster

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 9:08:26 AM UTC-6, rbowman wrote:
On 01/19/2016 02:19 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
The military has something now that was not available in WWII or Vietnam. It's PGM, Precision Guided Munition which in most cases make carpet bombing unnecessary. It's my understanding that an attacking aircraft can send one through the window of a building.

Chinese embassies, Doctors Without Borders hospitals, ...

That has more to do with faulty intelligence than incompetent pilots. The bomber is going to hit the target it's assigned. Oh yea, you forgot The Baby Milk Factory. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Bomber Monster

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 2:48:48 PM UTC-6, Tekkie® wrote:
Uncle Monster posted for all of us...

On Monday, January 18, 2016 at 8:22:10 AM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 12:21:55 AM UTC-5, T wrote:
On 01/14/2016 06:23 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per T:
I am a Vietnam era vet. I know what carpet bombing is.

Would you agree that carpet bombing is total destruction of an area
without any regard to civilian casualties?

If so, and if one accepts the fact that ISIS embeds itself into the
civilian population, it would seem that Cruz is basically advocating
butchery...... and getting substantial boosts in the polls out of it.

Hi Pete,

How about you adding up the civilian deaths by going after these
*******s versus the deaths their continued existence will and
has caused?

That doesn't make carpet bombing the only solution or even an
acceptable solution. The deaths of civilians are now on the hands
of ISIS. Do you really want massive civilian deaths on the hands
of the USA? Pictures of dead women and children from American B52's?
How is that any different than the war crimes Assad is committing
by dropping barrel bombs in civilian areas?

Those that hide in the civilian population are the ones morally
responsible for their safety, not those that go after them.
You are confusing the two.

Going after them with reasonable means and carpet bombing are
two very different things.

It totally sucks if you the one who has to give the order, but
that is what a real leader is all about. I would add "what
a real man is all about".

So, carpet bombing makes you a man. How interesting.

The military has something now that was not available in WWII or Vietnam. It's PGM, Precision Guided Munition which in most cases make carpet bombing unnecessary. It's my understanding that an attacking aircraft can send one through the window of a building. From what I've read, the military is using what's called a small diameter bomb because less explosive is needed for a precision strike. PGM's are supposed to limit collateral damage by design.
^_^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision-guided_munition

[8~{} Uncle Guided Monster

I think Muggles will be glad to know this because the black helos are coming
for greenhouses.
--
Tekkie

She mentioned a while back that her husband caught some person unknown to him trying to get through one of their gates. It could have been a narc or a pothead hoping to find marijuana in their greenhouse. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Pot Monster

On 01/19/2016 07:13 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
That has more to do with faulty intelligence than incompetent pilots. The bomber is going to hit the target it's assigned. Oh yea, you forgot The Baby Milk Factory.

And the pharmaceutical plant? The only justified bombing was when
Clinton bombed the Yugo plant; somebody had to do that.

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 10:55:32 PM UTC-6, rbowman wrote:
On 01/19/2016 07:13 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
That has more to do with faulty intelligence than incompetent pilots. The bomber is going to hit the target it's assigned. Oh yea, you forgot The Baby Milk Factory.

And the pharmaceutical plant? The only justified bombing was when
Clinton bombed the Yugo plant; somebody had to do that.

The Yugo was the first disposable few time use automobiles but it was ahead of its time. It wasn't manufactured from biodegradable materials which cause most of the problems with disposing of the spent cars. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Yugo Monster

Per trader_4:
Agree, that makes sense. The oilfields and refineries should have been
neutralized two years ago. And none of that requires carpet bombing.

Sometime in the last year, I saw some video that made the point that at
least a significant amount of ISIS' oil being sold through Turkey was
coming from very small wells - small enough that a guy in a
duce-and-a-half drives up, fills a tank, and then drives off.

i.e. too small to be effectively located/targeted.

Maybe somebody who knows more than I can comment.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 01/20/2016 07:55 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per trader_4:
Agree, that makes sense. The oilfields and refineries should have been
neutralized two years ago. And none of that requires carpet bombing.

Sometime in the last year, I saw some video that made the point that at
least a significant amount of ISIS' oil being sold through Turkey was
coming from very small wells - small enough that a guy in a
duce-and-a-half drives up, fills a tank, and then drives off.

i.e. too small to be effectively located/targeted.


A10 wart hogs can easily target these trucks. We haven't
done this because we are pansies. The few times we have,
the truck drives have refused to transport ISIS oil
because they do not to lose their trucks.

Which also brings up the point: if you support them,,
you are a legitimate target. We warns the drivers first
anyway, which, back to the pansy thing.

No wonder ISUS is not afraid of us.

Our smart bombs can easily hit small wells too.

And, if it moves, it is a target.


Maybe somebody who knows more than I can comment.

"T" wrote in message ...
On 01/14/2016 06:23 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per T:

If so, and if one accepts the fact that ISIS embeds itself into the
civilian population, it would seem that Cruz is basically advocating
butchery...... and getting substantial boosts in the polls out of it.

Hi Pete,

How about you adding up the civilian deaths by going after these
*******s versus the deaths their continued existence will and
has caused?

I see, preemptive indiscriminate (and riskless) butchery is permissible in
your dark world. Is that in the KJV Bible or is it the Book of Mormon?
Sounds more like the Necrimonicon. Or Muslim terrorists.

Besides, we were fed that line of crap about Saddam and how we had to kill
100's of thousands of Iraqis to save them from him. It was bad math then,
it's bad math now.

How can someone be so concerned about abortion and the lives of unborn
fetuses and yet advocate carpet bombing fetuses, babies, women, children,
cats, dogs and grandparents to smithereens? It that because you and Cruz
have run out of humane solutions? You might want to think harder, then.
Come up with a solution that doesn't involve indiscriminate slaughter of
civilians.

(Pete, if you're reading, this is yet another reason I've lost faith in the
Republican party and organized religion which appear to be "heavy dating"
these days. "Thou Shall Not Kill" is some sort of vague abstraction to more
than a few religious posers of the world.)

As for Jesus urging Christians to "turn the other cheek?" Here's how that
one went:

that is what a real leader is all about. I would add "what
a real man is all about".

Carpet bombing innocents might make YOU feel like a man, but that just
reflects poorly upon you.

What a poor confused individual you are, T, which I am certain stands for
"nym-shifting troll." You would have us bomb babies indiscriminately to
*perhaps* save other babies. That might be a good trade but ONLY if your
magic ball can predict the future accurately. Sadly, as "Bring it On" Bush
found out, killing lots of Muslims didn't solve anything. In fact it gave
birth to ISIS.

How can carpet bombing solve a religious feud that's been going on since
632AD? Could ISIS bomb your vision of God out of YOU? Probably not. Nor
is it likely to work anywhere else. Yet people never seem to tire to
trying.

--
Bobby G.

Per trader_4:
Why lose faith in the Republican party? It's only Cruz that made one
short remark about "carpet bombing".

As a conservative-bordering-on-reactionary who left the Repubs to
register Independent some years back....

I would call one's attention to the various (Rubio's, for instance;
Carson's, for instance) Republican candidates' tax cut plans and their
projected effects on the national deficit AND their positive reception
by their fellow party members.....

The big deal to me is not the plans, it's the positive reception of them
by other party members.

--
Pete Cresswell

Uncle Monster posted for all of us...

I think Muggles will be glad to know this because the black helos are
coming
for greenhouses.
--
Tekkie

She mentioned a while back that her husband caught some person unknown to him trying to get through one of their gates. It could have been a narc or a pothead hoping to find marijuana in their greenhouse. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Pot Monster

Should have called the cops and watch the circus act. After ID'ing the actor
then could move forward with inspection of the facility likely to bring more
laughs to all involved.

--
Tekkie

On 01/21/2016 11:33 AM, Robert Green wrote:
I see, preemptive indiscriminate (and riskless) butchery is permissible in
your dark world. Is that in the KJV Bible or is it the Book of Mormon?
Sounds more like the Necrimonicon. Or Muslim terrorists.

And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt
smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in
the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and
thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath
given thee.

Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee,
which are not of the cities of these nations.

But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee
for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the
Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the
Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:



King James, mos' def'.