On 10/30/2015 4:07 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 10/30/2015 2:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
...

Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

But you say this is intermittent--works sometimes but not others?

It will work fine sometimes for a few minutes or a couple of hours and
maybe even a whole day or two after I fiddle with it . It did seem to come
back when we were driving around town today , but who knows , it's warm
enough without heat today .

Makes me suspect a loose obstruction hanging up or perhaps the controls
are intermittent themselves?

That was a biggie with one of the series of Chebby pickumups in '97 or
thereabouts...the dampers are electric motors and combined with their
tendency to lock up and then burnout the motor the actual control
circuitry was subject to a service bulletin that wasn't a recall but if
the customer complained they'd swap it out...

--

On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 4:21:31 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:

You purged / bled air from the system; if it has been opened for
repair recently?

I previously suggested this...no response or concern by the OP?


Any air in the system would
move to the radiator, which is at the correct level.


....not always the case, that's why there is an air purge valve.

bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 4:21:31 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:

You purged / bled air from the system; if it has been opened for
repair recently?

I previously suggested this...no response or concern by the OP?


Any air in the system would
move to the radiator, which is at the correct level.


...not always the case, that's why there is an air purge valve.

There is no purge valve on this one .

--
Snag

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:15:53 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 07:50:05 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 10:19:22 AM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 8:51:17 AM UTC-4, Terry Coombs
wrote:
Hey at least it ain't politics !

Our '99 Toyota 4Runner has a heater problem that's driving me
(more) nuts . The heater apparently isn't getting enough coolant
flow , and isn't putting out enough heat . I've checked all the
hoses from the motor thru the valve and heater core and back to
the engine , hoses are OK and the core isn't plugged . I've also
flushed the entire system , all hoses and the core and associated
plumbing . After flushing it out it'll do OK for a short time
then it's back to not enough heat . Pertinent info - the water
control valve is cable operated from the dash along with the
gating for airflow in the heater box . I don't think there's a
t-stat type device in there for temp control , but if there is
one and it's malfing that might explain it . The coolant level
is up , and circulating when observed in the radiator . This has
really got me stumped , and the wife is getting pretty hot
herself about it - we're getting into the cold season here and
she's the main driver .
--
Snag

Are you sure that the blend doors are opening and closing properly?

I've had them fail on various model cars. Until recently I had a
2002 Mitsubishi that sometimes would not produce heat after the
temp knob was moved from full cold to heat. Turned out that the
blend door actuator would get intermittently get stuck in the
fully closed position. I followed the cable down to where it
entered the duct work and installed a small block of wood to
prevent the cable from being moved to the fully cold position. The
difference was maybe a 16th of an inch at the knob end.

Car had heat for 3 winters until other issues signaled it's demise.

Not the problem , I can observe the mechanism moving when I move
the control knob . Unless there is a t-stat in there that controls
them and the cable only signals it for heat .

--
Snag

What mechanism can you observe move? On the Mit, I could see the
cable move a nylon connector over it's full range of motion as
observed from outside the blend door housing. However, the blend
door shut motor itself is inside the housing and that was what was
intermittently failing in the fully closed position - by design.

If you fast forward to 7:00 in the following video, you'll see what I
mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HywkYSNRGug

What I did was keep playing with the control knob until the shut
motor activated and opened the doors. I then physically prevented
the cable from ever moving to the fully closed position, thereby
"eliminating" the shut motor from the system.

My Dad has a mid-2000's Mercury Sable. He had poor heat also. He had
a blend door issue, but it cost him $800 to fix. It was mostly labor
because half the dash board had to be taken apart to get to the
problem.

Blend door issues are a common cause of no/low heat.
Not sure about your year, but many earlier 4-runners had a problem
with the water control valve. The control shaft pulled out of the
"spool valve" that controls the water flow - moving the shaft opens a
roughly 1/4 inch hole instead of the 5/8" hole it is supposed to open.

I replaced a few dozen of those (and on some other Toyotas as well)
Remove the valve and check it carefully.

Valve has been removed and checked , I get full range of motion and it stays
put on the shaft . On the blend door thing , I'm observing the levers and
stuff on the top of the heater outlet , all seems to be working properly . I
can actually hear the doors inside moving when I move the control lever .
Whatever is happening is intermittent. I HAVE seen the heater valves
appear to be good when looked at, when the heat is working. The trick
is to remove the valve when the heat is NOT working and confirm.

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 15:46:39 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 4:21:31 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:

You purged / bled air from the system; if it has been opened for
repair recently?

I previously suggested this...no response or concern by the OP?


Any air in the system would
move to the radiator, which is at the correct level.


...not always the case, that's why there is an air purge valve.
There is a purge valve on a 4runner?

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 18:45:16 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 4:21:31 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:

You purged / bled air from the system; if it has been opened for
repair recently?

I previously suggested this...no response or concern by the OP?


Any air in the system would
move to the radiator, which is at the correct level.


...not always the case, that's why there is an air purge valve.

There is no purge valve on this one .
There are purge valves on vehicles where the heater core is above the
level of the top of the rad or the top of the engine.
Like the defroster core on an old R12 .

On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it works
right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's malfunctioning . That
indicates to me that there is not enough flow thru the core .


Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water, then
floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

--
Snag

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting

its best to run water both directions thru the heater core, and pulse compressed air thru the heater core at the same time, replacing all the coolant with plain water, then drain, and replace all the coolant with a 50 /50 mixture of NEW coolant

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:26:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

What may work in a Florida swamp or what works in the Arctic Circle
are not the same. I ran engines for years without a T-stat.

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 17:07:20 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:26:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

What may work in a Florida swamp or what works in the Arctic Circle
are not the same. I ran engines for years without a T-stat.
Not a good idea, particularly on some modern engines. And if they
have a "bypass" thermostat you are guaranteed to overheat the engine
without the thermostat unless you understand exactly how they work and
you block off the alternate path.

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 7:07:29 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:26:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

What may work in a Florida swamp or what works in the Arctic Circle
are not the same. I ran engines for years without a T-stat.

You live in a rather warm area of the country as I recall. Around here, in the summer when it was hot, me and the guys would remove the thermostats from the engines in our vehicles in the days before cars and trucks were produced with all kinds of electronic engine controls. My old cars from the 1960's and 70's ran great in the summer without thermostats but I had to reinstall the thermostats when the weather got cool. Life was simpler back then. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cool Monster

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 6:26:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

I know guys who lived in the Desert Southwest who ran their cars and trucks without thermostats but that was in a era before all the computerized emission controls on the more modern vehicles which only work within a certain range of engine temperature. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Polluted Monster

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 7:07:29 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:26:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

What may work in a Florida swamp or what works in the Arctic Circle
are not the same. I ran engines for years without a T-stat.

You live in a rather warm area of the country as I recall. Around here, in the summer when it was hot, me and the guys would remove the thermostats from the engines in our vehicles in the days before cars and trucks were produced with all kinds of electronic engine controls. My old cars from the 1960's and 70's ran great in the summer without thermostats but I had to reinstall the thermostats when the weather got cool. Life was simpler back then. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cool Monster
In today's cars you are almost guaranteen you will, at the very
least, throw a code and turn on the CEL. The computer knows from the
outside air temperature, how long it should take to come to a specific
operating temperature and if it takes too long, or not long enough, it
reports an error. Even changing the thermostat temperature can cause
problems (put in 180 instead of 190 and it takes too long to reach the
190 minimum operating temperature - light comes on.

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 8:57:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 7:07:29 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:26:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

What may work in a Florida swamp or what works in the Arctic Circle
are not the same. I ran engines for years without a T-stat.

You live in a rather warm area of the country as I recall. Around here, in the summer when it was hot, me and the guys would remove the thermostats from the engines in our vehicles in the days before cars and trucks were produced with all kinds of electronic engine controls. My old cars from the 1960's and 70's ran great in the summer without thermostats but I had to reinstall the thermostats when the weather got cool. Life was simpler back then. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cool Monster
In today's cars you are almost guaranteen you will, at the very
least, throw a code and turn on the CEL. The computer knows from the
outside air temperature, how long it should take to come to a specific
operating temperature and if it takes too long, or not long enough, it
reports an error. Even changing the thermostat temperature can cause
problems (put in 180 instead of 190 and it takes too long to reach the
190 minimum operating temperature - light comes on.

Dang computers! Our mule didn't have one of those abominations! ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Computer Monster

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 9:57:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 7:07:29 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:26:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

What may work in a Florida swamp or what works in the Arctic Circle
are not the same. I ran engines for years without a T-stat.

You live in a rather warm area of the country as I recall. Around here, in the summer when it was hot, me and the guys would remove the thermostats from the engines in our vehicles in the days before cars and trucks were produced with all kinds of electronic engine controls. My old cars from the 1960's and 70's ran great in the summer without thermostats but I had to reinstall the thermostats when the weather got cool. Life was simpler back then. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cool Monster
In today's cars you are almost guaranteen you will, at the very
least, throw a code and turn on the CEL. The computer knows from the
outside air temperature, how long it should take to come to a specific
operating temperature and if it takes too long, or not long enough, it
reports an error. Even changing the thermostat temperature can cause
problems (put in 180 instead of 190 and it takes too long to reach the
190 minimum operating temperature - light comes on.

The Honda Odyssey uses Variable Cylinder Management which shuts down 3 of the 6 cylinders
when the ECU determines that they are not needed. Many Ody owners hate it for a variety of
reasons.

One guy determined that VCM will never engage below a engine coolant temp (ECT) of 167F.

He determined that a ~100 ohm resistor placed between the ECT2 sensor and the ECU fools the
ECU into thinking that the ECT is about 15 degrees cooler and essentially disables VCM. The 15
degrees Is not enough to impact the fuel air mixture at cooler ECTs so there does not appear to
be any negative impact on vehicle operation or performance. Dozens of us have been using
the resistor for about a year now and there have been no reports of issues. Vehicles have passed
state inspections with the resistor installed. The device is plug and play, using Honda connectors,
so it can be removed in about 20 seconds if someone wants to ensure that the resistor is not
causing whatever problem the van is having.

The VCM system causes more problems than it is worth. Running with 6 cylinders all the time
makes the van so much more enjoyable to drive.

(Honda had to use special (read: expensive) motors mounts and a Noise Cancellation system to
compensate for the physical vibration and auditory issues that are present when the back 3
cylinders are shut down. The motor mounts are known to go bad because of the VCM so we are
happy to know that we've eliminated the vibration issue that causes them to go bad.

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 21:57:31 -0400, wrote:

In today's cars you are almost guaranteen you will, at the very
least, throw a code and turn on the CEL. The computer knows from the
outside air temperature, how long it should take to come to a specific
operating temperature and if it takes too long, or not long enough, it
reports an error. Even changing the thermostat temperature can cause
problems (put in 180 instead of 190 and it takes too long to reach the
190 minimum operating temperature - light comes on.

....I forgot all about cars now having computers and fancy whiz bang
stuff

On Sunday, November 1, 2015 at 10:58:08 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 9:57:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 7:07:29 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:26:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

What may work in a Florida swamp or what works in the Arctic Circle
are not the same. I ran engines for years without a T-stat.

You live in a rather warm area of the country as I recall. Around here, in the summer when it was hot, me and the guys would remove the thermostats from the engines in our vehicles in the days before cars and trucks were produced with all kinds of electronic engine controls. My old cars from the 1960's and 70's ran great in the summer without thermostats but I had to reinstall the thermostats when the weather got cool. Life was simpler back then. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cool Monster
In today's cars you are almost guaranteen you will, at the very
least, throw a code and turn on the CEL. The computer knows from the
outside air temperature, how long it should take to come to a specific
operating temperature and if it takes too long, or not long enough, it
reports an error. Even changing the thermostat temperature can cause
problems (put in 180 instead of 190 and it takes too long to reach the
190 minimum operating temperature - light comes on.

The Honda Odyssey uses Variable Cylinder Management which shuts down 3 of the 6 cylinders
when the ECU determines that they are not needed. Many Ody owners hate it for a variety of
reasons.

One guy determined that VCM will never engage below a engine coolant temp (ECT) of 167F.

He determined that a ~100 ohm resistor placed between the ECT2 sensor and the ECU fools the
ECU into thinking that the ECT is about 15 degrees cooler and essentially disables VCM. The 15
degrees Is not enough to impact the fuel air mixture at cooler ECTs so there does not appear to
be any negative impact on vehicle operation or performance. Dozens of us have been using
the resistor for about a year now and there have been no reports of issues. Vehicles have passed
state inspections with the resistor installed. The device is plug and play, using Honda connectors,
so it can be removed in about 20 seconds if someone wants to ensure that the resistor is not
causing whatever problem the van is having.

The VCM system causes more problems than it is worth. Running with 6 cylinders all the time
makes the van so much more enjoyable to drive.

(Honda had to use special (read: expensive) motors mounts and a Noise Cancellation system to
compensate for the physical vibration and auditory issues that are present when the back 3
cylinders are shut down. The motor mounts are known to go bad because of the VCM so we are
happy to know that we've eliminated the vibration issue that causes them to go bad.

no doubt this tampering breaks a bunch of fedreal laws.

cadillac years ago had a 8 6 4 engine that didnt work

On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 07:57:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 9:57:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 7:07:29 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:26:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

What may work in a Florida swamp or what works in the Arctic Circle
are not the same. I ran engines for years without a T-stat.

You live in a rather warm area of the country as I recall. Around here, in the summer when it was hot, me and the guys would remove the thermostats from the engines in our vehicles in the days before cars and trucks were produced with all kinds of electronic engine controls. My old cars from the 1960's and 70's ran great in the summer without thermostats but I had to reinstall the thermostats when the weather got cool. Life was simpler back then. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cool Monster
In today's cars you are almost guaranteen you will, at the very
least, throw a code and turn on the CEL. The computer knows from the
outside air temperature, how long it should take to come to a specific
operating temperature and if it takes too long, or not long enough, it
reports an error. Even changing the thermostat temperature can cause
problems (put in 180 instead of 190 and it takes too long to reach the
190 minimum operating temperature - light comes on.

The Honda Odyssey uses Variable Cylinder Management which shuts down 3 of the 6 cylinders
when the ECU determines that they are not needed. Many Ody owners hate it for a variety of
reasons.

One guy determined that VCM will never engage below a engine coolant temp (ECT) of 167F.

He determined that a ~100 ohm resistor placed between the ECT2 sensor and the ECU fools the
ECU into thinking that the ECT is about 15 degrees cooler and essentially disables VCM. The 15
degrees Is not enough to impact the fuel air mixture at cooler ECTs so there does not appear to
be any negative impact on vehicle operation or performance. Dozens of us have been using
the resistor for about a year now and there have been no reports of issues. Vehicles have passed
state inspections with the resistor installed. The device is plug and play, using Honda connectors,
so it can be removed in about 20 seconds if someone wants to ensure that the resistor is not
causing whatever problem the van is having.

The VCM system causes more problems than it is worth. Running with 6 cylinders all the time
makes the van so much more enjoyable to drive.

(Honda had to use special (read: expensive) motors mounts and a Noise Cancellation system to
compensate for the physical vibration and auditory issues that are present when the back 3
cylinders are shut down. The motor mounts are known to go bad because of the VCM so we are
happy to know that we've eliminated the vibration issue that causes them to go bad.
On a lot of vehicles (don't know about the Odyssy) the torque
converter also will not lock below the target temperature - and
running without lock-up not only burns more fuel, but also burns out
transmissions due to overheating caused by the slippage in the
converter (which is not allowed for in the cooling design) Some also
will never shift into the top (overdrive) gear untill proper operating
temperature is acheived.

On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 08:55:12 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

On Sunday, November 1, 2015 at 10:58:08 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 9:57:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 7:07:29 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:26:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

What may work in a Florida swamp or what works in the Arctic Circle
are not the same. I ran engines for years without a T-stat.

You live in a rather warm area of the country as I recall. Around here, in the summer when it was hot, me and the guys would remove the thermostats from the engines in our vehicles in the days before cars and trucks were produced with all kinds of electronic engine controls. My old cars from the 1960's and 70's ran great in the summer without thermostats but I had to reinstall the thermostats when the weather got cool. Life was simpler back then. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cool Monster
In today's cars you are almost guaranteen you will, at the very
least, throw a code and turn on the CEL. The computer knows from the
outside air temperature, how long it should take to come to a specific
operating temperature and if it takes too long, or not long enough, it
reports an error. Even changing the thermostat temperature can cause
problems (put in 180 instead of 190 and it takes too long to reach the
190 minimum operating temperature - light comes on.

The Honda Odyssey uses Variable Cylinder Management which shuts down 3 of the 6 cylinders
when the ECU determines that they are not needed. Many Ody owners hate it for a variety of
reasons.

One guy determined that VCM will never engage below a engine coolant temp (ECT) of 167F.

He determined that a ~100 ohm resistor placed between the ECT2 sensor and the ECU fools the
ECU into thinking that the ECT is about 15 degrees cooler and essentially disables VCM. The 15
degrees Is not enough to impact the fuel air mixture at cooler ECTs so there does not appear to
be any negative impact on vehicle operation or performance. Dozens of us have been using
the resistor for about a year now and there have been no reports of issues. Vehicles have passed
state inspections with the resistor installed. The device is plug and play, using Honda connectors,
so it can be removed in about 20 seconds if someone wants to ensure that the resistor is not
causing whatever problem the van is having.

The VCM system causes more problems than it is worth. Running with 6 cylinders all the time
makes the van so much more enjoyable to drive.

(Honda had to use special (read: expensive) motors mounts and a Noise Cancellation system to
compensate for the physical vibration and auditory issues that are present when the back 3
cylinders are shut down. The motor mounts are known to go bad because of the VCM so we are
happy to know that we've eliminated the vibration issue that causes them to go bad.

no doubt this tampering breaks a bunch of fedreal laws.

cadillac years ago had a 8 6 4 engine that didnt work
Because caddy tried to do it with analog electronics, since digital
was not developped to that point yet.

On Sunday, November 1, 2015 at 11:55:17 AM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
On Sunday, November 1, 2015 at 10:58:08 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 9:57:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 7:07:29 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:26:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

What may work in a Florida swamp or what works in the Arctic Circle
are not the same. I ran engines for years without a T-stat.

You live in a rather warm area of the country as I recall. Around here, in the summer when it was hot, me and the guys would remove the thermostats from the engines in our vehicles in the days before cars and trucks were produced with all kinds of electronic engine controls. My old cars from the 1960's and 70's ran great in the summer without thermostats but I had to reinstall the thermostats when the weather got cool. Life was simpler back then. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cool Monster
In today's cars you are almost guaranteen you will, at the very
least, throw a code and turn on the CEL. The computer knows from the
outside air temperature, how long it should take to come to a specific
operating temperature and if it takes too long, or not long enough, it
reports an error. Even changing the thermostat temperature can cause
problems (put in 180 instead of 190 and it takes too long to reach the
190 minimum operating temperature - light comes on.

The Honda Odyssey uses Variable Cylinder Management which shuts down 3 of the 6 cylinders
when the ECU determines that they are not needed. Many Ody owners hate it for a variety of
reasons.

One guy determined that VCM will never engage below a engine coolant temp (ECT) of 167F.

He determined that a ~100 ohm resistor placed between the ECT2 sensor and the ECU fools the
ECU into thinking that the ECT is about 15 degrees cooler and essentially disables VCM. The 15
degrees Is not enough to impact the fuel air mixture at cooler ECTs so there does not appear to
be any negative impact on vehicle operation or performance. Dozens of us have been using
the resistor for about a year now and there have been no reports of issues. Vehicles have passed
state inspections with the resistor installed. The device is plug and play, using Honda connectors,
so it can be removed in about 20 seconds if someone wants to ensure that the resistor is not
causing whatever problem the van is having.

The VCM system causes more problems than it is worth. Running with 6 cylinders all the time
makes the van so much more enjoyable to drive.

(Honda had to use special (read: expensive) motors mounts and a Noise Cancellation system to
compensate for the physical vibration and auditory issues that are present when the back 3
cylinders are shut down. The motor mounts are known to go bad because of the VCM so we are
happy to know that we've eliminated the vibration issue that causes them to go bad.

no doubt this tampering breaks a bunch of fedreal laws.

Why and which ones?


cadillac years ago had a 8 6 4 engine that didnt work

On 11/1/2015 10:25 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 21:57:31 -0400, wrote:

In today's cars you are almost guaranteen you will, at the very
least, throw a code and turn on the CEL. The computer knows from the
outside air temperature, how long it should take to come to a specific
operating temperature and if it takes too long, or not long enough, it
reports an error. Even changing the thermostat temperature can cause
problems (put in 180 instead of 190 and it takes too long to reach the
190 minimum operating temperature - light comes on.

...I forgot all about cars now having computers and fancy whiz bang
stuff


I test drove some new Ford SUV the past summer and it had so many bells
and whistles on it that they had to have a class to train people on how
to use them. It was just way too complicated. Nice car, but I want to
drive it from point A to point B and not need a degree to turn on the radio!

--
Maggie

On 11/1/2015 11:46 PM, Muggles wrote:
I test drove some new Ford SUV the past summer and it had so many bells
and whistles on it that they had to have a class to train people on how
to use them. It was just way too complicated. Nice car, but I want to
drive it from point A to point B and not need a degree to turn on the radio!


Gracious, that's astounding. Not sure
I'd believe it, but you're a reglar here.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 7:36:30 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/1/2015 11:46 PM, Muggles wrote:
I test drove some new Ford SUV the past summer and it had so many bells
and whistles on it that they had to have a class to train people on how
to use them. It was just way too complicated. Nice car, but I want to
drive it from point A to point B and not need a degree to turn on the radio!


Gracious, that's astounding. Not sure
I'd believe it, but you're a reglar here.

--

What's not to believe?

Cell phone carriers hold classes to teach people use smart phones.

It's another touch point for their customers. If a customer is happy with
their device/vehicle and feel that they are taking advantage of the
features that matter to them, they are more likely to remain loyal.

I know lots of people that are technologically challenged and could never
figure out how to program/use many of the features in a high tech vehicle
on their own. A class is a great idea.

On 11/2/2015 6:36 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/1/2015 11:46 PM, Muggles wrote:
I test drove some new Ford SUV the past summer and it had so many bells
and whistles on it that they had to have a class to train people on how
to use them. It was just way too complicated. Nice car, but I want to
drive it from point A to point B and not need a degree to turn on the
radio!


Gracious, that's astounding. Not sure
I'd believe it, but you're a reglar here.


{curtsies}

--
Maggie

Terry Coombs posted for all of us...



Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .


Have you tried back flushing just the core? Might be piece of safarkus in
there.

--
Tekkie

On 11/1/2015 11:46 PM, Muggles wrote:


I test drove some new Ford SUV the past summer and it had so many bells
and whistles on it that they had to have a class to train people on how
to use them. It was just way too complicated. Nice car, but I want to
drive it from point A to point B and not need a degree to turn on the radio!


Depends on how you use the vehicle and how often, I spend a fair amount
of time in my car so I want all the goodies. Last month I bought a new
car and it did take a few days to figure it all out. This past weekend
I drove about 750 miles and enjoyed having the technology and comfort.
Oh, don't forget about safety too. This will even put the brakes on if
you don't.

If you only drive to the store once or twice a week you don't really
need much and never get the advantage.

This winter will be easier with the heated steering wheel too.

I test drove some new Ford SUV the past summer and it had so many bells
and whistles on it that they had to have a class to train people on how
to use them. It was just way too complicated. Nice car, but I want to
drive it from point A to point B and not need a degree to turn on the radio!


Depends on how you use the vehicle and how often, I spend a fair amount
of time in my car so I want all the goodies. Last month I bought a new
car and it did take a few days to figure it all out. This past weekend
I drove about 750 miles and enjoyed having the technology and comfort.
Oh, don't forget about safety too. This will even put the brakes on if
you don't.
If you only drive to the store once or twice a week you don't really
need much and never get the advantage.
This winter will be easier with the heated steering wheel too.


My new car has a whole bunch of un-wanted "options"
... voice activated blue tooth ; back-up sonar ; etc etc
... but no block heater.. I'm in Canada for cripes sake.
And I suspect that it has zero rust proofing - it's a Kia.
John T.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:52:07 -0500, wrote:


I test drove some new Ford SUV the past summer and it had so many bells
and whistles on it that they had to have a class to train people on how
to use them. It was just way too complicated. Nice car, but I want to
drive it from point A to point B and not need a degree to turn on the radio!


Depends on how you use the vehicle and how often, I spend a fair amount
of time in my car so I want all the goodies. Last month I bought a new
car and it did take a few days to figure it all out. This past weekend
I drove about 750 miles and enjoyed having the technology and comfort.
Oh, don't forget about safety too. This will even put the brakes on if
you don't.
If you only drive to the store once or twice a week you don't really
need much and never get the advantage.
This winter will be easier with the heated steering wheel too.


My new car has a whole bunch of un-wanted "options"
.. voice activated blue tooth ; back-up sonar ; etc etc
.. but no block heater.. I'm in Canada for cripes sake.
And I suspect that it has zero rust proofing - it's a Kia.
John T.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
And if you use the recommended oil it will start at -60 as easily as
at +60.. And it wioll warm up in 5 minutes of droiving. Block heater
not required.

wrote:

I test drove some new Ford SUV the past summer and it had so many bells
and whistles on it that they had to have a class to train people on how
to use them. It was just way too complicated. Nice car, but I want to
drive it from point A to point B and not need a degree to turn on the radio!


Depends on how you use the vehicle and how often, I spend a fair amount
of time in my car so I want all the goodies. Last month I bought a new
car and it did take a few days to figure it all out. This past weekend
I drove about 750 miles and enjoyed having the technology and comfort.
Oh, don't forget about safety too. This will even put the brakes on if
you don't.
If you only drive to the store once or twice a week you don't really
need much and never get the advantage.
This winter will be easier with the heated steering wheel too.


My new car has a whole bunch of un-wanted "options"
.. voice activated blue tooth ; back-up sonar ; etc etc
.. but no block heater.. I'm in Canada for cripes sake.
And I suspect that it has zero rust proofing - it's a Kia.
John T.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

What? no block heater? I haven't used it for many years. Car always
started in winter mornings. Stat shows ~30% of new car buyers are using
all the bells and whistles came with the car. I had to mute beeping
sound warning for this and that. Almost continuous beeping driving me nuts.

wrote:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:52:07 -0500, wrote:


I test drove some new Ford SUV the past summer and it had so many bells
and whistles on it that they had to have a class to train people on how
to use them. It was just way too complicated. Nice car, but I want to
drive it from point A to point B and not need a degree to turn on the radio!


Depends on how you use the vehicle and how often, I spend a fair amount
of time in my car so I want all the goodies. Last month I bought a new
car and it did take a few days to figure it all out. This past weekend
I drove about 750 miles and enjoyed having the technology and comfort.
Oh, don't forget about safety too. This will even put the brakes on if
you don't.
If you only drive to the store once or twice a week you don't really
need much and never get the advantage.
This winter will be easier with the heated steering wheel too.


My new car has a whole bunch of un-wanted "options"
.. voice activated blue tooth ; back-up sonar ; etc etc
.. but no block heater.. I'm in Canada for cripes sake.
And I suspect that it has zero rust proofing - it's a Kia.
John T.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
And if you use the recommended oil it will start at -60 as easily as
at +60.. And it wioll warm up in 5 minutes of droiving. Block heater
not required.

Now all has auto climate control, heated seats, steering wheels.

On 11/2/2015 8:52 PM, wrote:




My new car has a whole bunch of un-wanted "options"
.. voice activated blue tooth ; back-up sonar ; etc etc
.. but no block heater.. I'm in Canada for cripes sake.
And I suspect that it has zero rust proofing - it's a Kia.
John T.


You can get one

http://kiapartspeople.com/kia_engine_block_heater.html

You may be surprised at how much rust proofing the car has. They do a
full dip of the body.

On 11/2/2015 7:34 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/1/2015 11:46 PM, Muggles wrote:


I test drove some new Ford SUV the past summer and it had so many bells
and whistles on it that they had to have a class to train people on how
to use them. It was just way too complicated. Nice car, but I want to
drive it from point A to point B and not need a degree to turn on the
radio!


Depends on how you use the vehicle and how often, I spend a fair amount
of time in my car so I want all the goodies. Last month I bought a new
car and it did take a few days to figure it all out. This past weekend
I drove about 750 miles and enjoyed having the technology and comfort.
Oh, don't forget about safety too. This will even put the brakes on if
you don't.

If you only drive to the store once or twice a week you don't really
need much and never get the advantage.

This winter will be easier with the heated steering wheel too.

The technology part doesn't bother me, and I like the comfort part, too.
This particular SUV just seemed to be a bit over the top.

--
Maggie

On Sunday, November 1, 2015 at 3:33:50 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 07:57:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 9:57:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 7:07:29 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:26:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:30:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:27:39 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/30/2015 3:31 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:


Answered above (or below) , the hoses are both very hot when it
works right , in is hot and out is not as hot when it's
malfunctioning . That indicates to me that there is not enough flow
thru the core .

Could be a piece of crud floating around? Partly blocks the water,
then floats a bit and opens the passage for good flow?

That's about the only explanation I can come up with too . I just can't
figure out where/what it is and how to get it out .

Flushed the system proper B4 filling up?

Just for giggles, I'd remove the radiator T-stat at the manifold, bolt
the hose neck back on and see what happens. T-stats do go bad, fail to
open and close. To much coolant or not the right percentage mix can be
an issue. In Florida we would remove the T-stat entirely. Further
north in cold climates things work different. Just sayin'

The solution to the problem would be interesting
Removing the thermostat on some engines will cause serious
overheating, while on other engines it could cause the engine to never
get up to operating temperature. If running without a thermostat it is
a real good idea to install a restrictor plate or baffle with a
roughly 3/4" hole in place of the thermostat.

What may work in a Florida swamp or what works in the Arctic Circle
are not the same. I ran engines for years without a T-stat.

You live in a rather warm area of the country as I recall. Around here, in the summer when it was hot, me and the guys would remove the thermostats from the engines in our vehicles in the days before cars and trucks were produced with all kinds of electronic engine controls. My old cars from the 1960's and 70's ran great in the summer without thermostats but I had to reinstall the thermostats when the weather got cool. Life was simpler back then. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cool Monster
In today's cars you are almost guaranteen you will, at the very
least, throw a code and turn on the CEL. The computer knows from the
outside air temperature, how long it should take to come to a specific
operating temperature and if it takes too long, or not long enough, it
reports an error. Even changing the thermostat temperature can cause
problems (put in 180 instead of 190 and it takes too long to reach the
190 minimum operating temperature - light comes on.

The Honda Odyssey uses Variable Cylinder Management which shuts down 3 of the 6 cylinders
when the ECU determines that they are not needed. Many Ody owners hate it for a variety of
reasons.

One guy determined that VCM will never engage below a engine coolant temp (ECT) of 167F.

He determined that a ~100 ohm resistor placed between the ECT2 sensor and the ECU fools the
ECU into thinking that the ECT is about 15 degrees cooler and essentially disables VCM. The 15
degrees Is not enough to impact the fuel air mixture at cooler ECTs so there does not appear to
be any negative impact on vehicle operation or performance. Dozens of us have been using
the resistor for about a year now and there have been no reports of issues. Vehicles have passed
state inspections with the resistor installed. The device is plug and play, using Honda connectors,
so it can be removed in about 20 seconds if someone wants to ensure that the resistor is not
causing whatever problem the van is having.

The VCM system causes more problems than it is worth. Running with 6 cylinders all the time
makes the van so much more enjoyable to drive.

(Honda had to use special (read: expensive) motors mounts and a Noise Cancellation system to
compensate for the physical vibration and auditory issues that are present when the back 3
cylinders are shut down. The motor mounts are known to go bad because of the VCM so we are
happy to know that we've eliminated the vibration issue that causes them to go bad.
On a lot of vehicles (don't know about the Odyssy) the torque
converter also will not lock below the target temperature - and
running without lock-up not only burns more fuel, but also burns out
transmissions due to overheating caused by the slippage in the
converter (which is not allowed for in the cooling design) Some also
will never shift into the top (overdrive) gear untill proper operating
temperature is acheived.

As far as we have been able to tell, the Ody (or Pilot) does not exhibit any TC lockup issues
with the device installed. Hundreds of devices used for thousands of miles; highway, city,
towing, etc.

No high rev issues, no shuddering, no heat buildup. We're happy.

On 11/2/2015 9:36 PM, wrote:

My new car has a whole bunch of un-wanted "options"
.. voice activated blue tooth ; back-up sonar ; etc etc
.. but no block heater.. I'm in Canada for cripes sake.
And I suspect that it has zero rust proofing - it's a Kia.
John T.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
And if you use the recommended oil it will start at -60 as easily as
at +60.. And it wioll warm up in 5 minutes of droiving. Block heater
not required.


Rather than be cold five minutes I use the remote start when it is that
cold. I just wish the heated seats would stay on. The steering wheel
heater does so that is warm when I get in.

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 11:43:42 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/2/2015 9:36 PM, wrote:

My new car has a whole bunch of un-wanted "options"
.. voice activated blue tooth ; back-up sonar ; etc etc
.. but no block heater.. I'm in Canada for cripes sake.
And I suspect that it has zero rust proofing - it's a Kia.
John T.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
And if you use the recommended oil it will start at -60 as easily as
at +60.. And it wioll warm up in 5 minutes of droiving. Block heater
not required.


Rather than be cold five minutes I use the remote start when it is that
cold. I just wish the heated seats would stay on. The steering wheel
heater does so that is warm when I get in.

There may be a reason why the seat heaters do not come up with the remote
start.

The manual for my Odyssey states:

"Use the HI setting only to heat the seats quickly because it draws
large amounts of current from the battery. If the engine is left idling
for an extended period, do not use the seat heaters, even on the LO
setting. It can weaken the battery, causing hard starting."

Granted, the manual does not define what they mean by "an extended period"
but perhaps even the 20 minutes that many remote starts shut down after is
"extended" enough to weaken the battery.

That said, my seat heaters are controlled by a rocker switch which means
that I can set them to HI or LO and have them come on with the remote start.

The problem is that I don't always remember to do that after I park. ;-)

Still, a warm cabin, even if the leather is cold, is better than nothing.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 11:43:42 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/2/2015 9:36 PM, wrote:

My new car has a whole bunch of un-wanted "options"
.. voice activated blue tooth ; back-up sonar ; etc etc
.. but no block heater.. I'm in Canada for cripes sake.
And I suspect that it has zero rust proofing - it's a Kia.
John T.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints:
---
And if you use the recommended oil it will start at -60 as easily as
at +60.. And it wioll warm up in 5 minutes of droiving. Block heater
not required.


Rather than be cold five minutes I use the remote start when it is
that cold. I just wish the heated seats would stay on. The steering
wheel heater does so that is warm when I get in.

There may be a reason why the seat heaters do not come up with the
remote start.

The manual for my Odyssey states:

"Use the HI setting only to heat the seats quickly because it draws
large amounts of current from the battery. If the engine is left
idling
for an extended period, do not use the seat heaters, even on the LO
setting. It can weaken the battery, causing hard starting."

Granted, the manual does not define what they mean by "an extended
period" but perhaps even the 20 minutes that many remote starts shut
down after is "extended" enough to weaken the battery.

That said, my seat heaters are controlled by a rocker switch which
means that I can set them to HI or LO and have them come on with the
remote start.

The problem is that I don't always remember to do that after I park.
;-)

Still, a warm cabin, even if the leather is cold, is better than
nothing.

I'll remember this and chuckle when I climb on the Harley for a ride this
winter ... My one concession is electric gloves , because my pinkies chill
quickly .

--
Snag