To replace a crimped elbow in my 1/2" polybutylene plumbing, I bought a
Flair-It brand elbow at the local hardware store. As I installed it, the
elbow 6" away snapped.

(It makes sense. Apparently, stress on the barbs of old-style fittings
could cause polybutylene to start to rot. It could also start the
old-style plastic fittings rotting. Near those elbows was a broken
plastic pipe hanger.)

I bought a second elbow and a length of PEX to go between them. The
fittings are supposed to be for polybutylene and PEX, but I couldn't get
the PEX on. (The I.D. is 0.5mm or 0.02" smaller.)

The hardware man said heat is used to slide PEX onto these fittings.
Rather than explain it, he gave me a piece of polybutylene.

If I have to replace any more tubing, I want to use PEX. How do I slide
it on to a compression fitting designed for PEX and polybutylene? Is
heat the best way? Would a hair dryer be my best source? Would a
different brand of fitting solve the problem? Would faucet grease do
the trick?

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:34:11 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

The hardware man said heat is used to slide PEX onto these fittings.
Rather than explain it, he gave me a piece of polybutylene.

He told you wrong. Heat is never used.

If I have to replace any more tubing, I want to use PEX. How do I slide
it on to a compression fitting designed for PEX and polybutylene? Is
heat the best way? Would a hair dryer be my best source? Would a
different brand of fitting solve the problem? Would faucet grease do
the trick?

No, not exactly.

Learn how to install PEX on a pipe stub out.
..

On 09/12/2015 02:46 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:34:11 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

The hardware man said heat is used to slide PEX onto these fittings.
Rather than explain it, he gave me a piece of polybutylene.

He told you wrong. Heat is never used.

If I have to replace any more tubing, I want to use PEX. How do I slide
it on to a compression fitting designed for PEX and polybutylene? Is
heat the best way? Would a hair dryer be my best source? Would a
different brand of fitting solve the problem? Would faucet grease do
the trick?

No, not exactly.

Learn how to install PEX on a pipe stub out.
.




I replaced a bad section of pipe about a year ago and used PEX and those
"Sharkbite" fittings...the PEX pushed right in.


The clerk is an idiot and if the stuff does not push right in he must
have sold you something defective.

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:11:46 -0500, philo wrote:

Learn how to install PEX on a pipe stub out.
.




I replaced a bad section of pipe about a year ago and used PEX and those
"Sharkbite" fittings...the PEX pushed right in.


The clerk is an idiot and if the stuff does not push right in he must
have sold you something defective.

I bought my house "as is" years ago. Didn't know squat about PEX. It
was a short lesson. Didn't even know I had PEX.

Made two changes in a bath remodel. Still never had a leak.

OP needs to research PEX an attaching it to lines or fittings,

On 09/12/2015 03:24 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:11:46 -0500, philo wrote:

Learn how to install PEX on a pipe stub out.
.




I replaced a bad section of pipe about a year ago and used PEX and those
"Sharkbite" fittings...the PEX pushed right in.


The clerk is an idiot and if the stuff does not push right in he must
have sold you something defective.

I bought my house "as is" years ago. Didn't know squat about PEX. It
was a short lesson. Didn't even know I had PEX.

Made two changes in a bath remodel. Still never had a leak.

OP needs to research PEX an attaching it to lines or fittings,




I'm not too bad at doing home repairs...but certainly no plumbing expert
and if I was able to put together a PEX splice anyone should be able
to...it's not rocket science...but it is a damn great invention.

On 9/12/15 4:11 PM, philo wrote:
On 09/12/2015 02:46 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:34:11 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

The hardware man said heat is used to slide PEX onto these fittings.
Rather than explain it, he gave me a piece of polybutylene.

He told you wrong. Heat is never used.

He has been in the business all his life. He keeps his tools hanging at
the store because he has several houses and never knows when a tenant
may have a plumbing emergency. He knows plumbers but it's been so long
since he needed one, that he doesn't know what they charge these days.

People can buy plumbing supplies cheaper at big stores, but he does a
thriving business because he'll give them advice they can count on.
I'll take his word over yours.


If I have to replace any more tubing, I want to use PEX. How do I slide
it on to a compression fitting designed for PEX and polybutylene? Is
heat the best way? Would a hair dryer be my best source? Would a
different brand of fitting solve the problem? Would faucet grease do
the trick?

No, not exactly.

Learn how to install PEX on a pipe stub out.
.


What kind of fittings did you use in your very limited experience? You
are no doubt aware that Flair-It is different from other compression
fittings. They are certified for homes but were developed for motor
homes, boats, and mobile homes, where vibration and movement could could
nuts to come loose.

I was not aware of the difference until I found videos of company
representatives showing how to push on PEX. As the instructions say,
they used a rocking motion. So did I. They also used white-knuckle
pressure, as did I, but I couldn't force mine on. I suspect they'd
warmed their tubing to be sure the demonstration worked.

The O at the start of your name will always remind me of a very large
mouth. Why is it that those with the biggest mouths are so often the
most ignorant?


I replaced a bad section of pipe about a year ago and used PEX and those
"Sharkbite" fittings...the PEX pushed right in.


So that's a brand that works. Why did you tell Oren and not me?

Are you aware that Sharkbite push-to-connect fittings are entirely
different from other compression fittings? The insert is there only to
be sure the tubing doesn't collapse.

The clerk is an idiot and if the stuff does not push right in he must
have sold you something defective.


Is "philo" short for "philosopher?" Here's a bit of philosophy for you.
We often have low opinions of others because we wrongly assume they
are like ourselves.

Are you and Oren spending the weekend drinking together? Is it the
liquor that makes you talk that way, or do you drink to excuse such
behavior?

Note to moderator: Please suspend the posting privileges of Oren and
philo. It will improve the group, and they need incentive to join a
twelve-step program.

On 9/12/2015 8:59 PM, John Somerset wrote:
On 9/12/15 4:11 PM, philo wrote:
On 09/12/2015 02:46 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:34:11 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

The hardware man said heat is used to slide PEX onto these fittings.
Rather than explain it, he gave me a piece of polybutylene.

He told you wrong. Heat is never used.

He has been in the business all his life. He keeps his tools hanging at
the store because he has several houses and never knows when a tenant
may have a plumbing emergency. He knows plumbers but it's been so long
since he needed one, that he doesn't know what they charge these days.

People can buy plumbing supplies cheaper at big stores, but he does a
thriving business because he'll give them advice they can count on. I'll
take his word over yours.


OK, but I've never heard of using heat for pex. I just tried to find
some information, but I could not find heat being used on a pex fitting.






Note to moderator: Please suspend the posting privileges of Oren and
philo. It will improve the group, and they need incentive to join a
twelve-step program.

I guess you can add me to that list. I'm all for the 12 step program.
Yep, two 6 packs is a good start.

On 9/12/15 10:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/12/2015 8:59 PM, John Somerset wrote:


He has been in the business all his life. He keeps his tools hanging at
the store because he has several houses and never knows when a tenant
may have a plumbing emergency. He knows plumbers but it's been so long
since he needed one, that he doesn't know what they charge these days.

People can buy plumbing supplies cheaper at big stores, but he does a
thriving business because he'll give them advice they can count on. I'll
take his word over yours.


OK, but I've never heard of using heat for pex. I just tried to find
some information, but I could not find heat being used on a pex fitting.


I searched, too, and found nothing. The force used in demos of Flair-It
fittings was my first clue that they are different. In one video, the
demonstrator removed the tubing by flexing sharply. It snapped as if
the fixture had broken. Under most conditions, I think a connection like
that would stay tight with no nut.


Note to moderator: Please suspend the posting privileges of Oren and
philo. It will improve the group, and they need incentive to join a
twelve-step program.

I guess you can add me to that list. I'm all for the 12 step program.
Yep, two 6 packs is a good start.

That's a terrible habit! Those twelve steps to the bathroom in the dark
can be dangerous. How would you feel if one morning you discovered that
you had peed where you did not intend to pee?

I recommend 5 quarts of ale instead. The bottles make dandy urine
receptacles so you won't have to get out of bed. For accuracy, you may
want to invest in a laser sight. Howard Hughes saved his bottles, but
that would entail the danger of drinking from the wrong bottle in the
future.

Note to moderator: Please disregard Ed's request. A man who can hold his
liquor is not a problem drinker.

On 9/12/2015 8:32 PM, John Somerset wrote:
On 9/12/15 10:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/12/2015 8:59 PM, John Somerset wrote:


He has been in the business all his life. He keeps his tools hanging at
the store because he has several houses and never knows when a tenant
may have a plumbing emergency. He knows plumbers but it's been so long
since he needed one, that he doesn't know what they charge these days.

People can buy plumbing supplies cheaper at big stores, but he does a
thriving business because he'll give them advice they can count on. I'll
take his word over yours.


OK, but I've never heard of using heat for pex. I just tried to find
some information, but I could not find heat being used on a pex fitting.


I searched, too, and found nothing. The force used in demos of Flair-It
fittings was my first clue that they are different. In one video, the
demonstrator removed the tubing by flexing sharply. It snapped as if the
fixture had broken. Under most conditions, I think a connection like that would
stay tight with no nut.


Note to moderator: Please suspend the posting privileges of Oren and
philo. It will improve the group, and they need incentive to join a
twelve-step program.

I guess you can add me to that list. I'm all for the 12 step program.
Yep, two 6 packs is a good start.

That's a terrible habit! Those twelve steps to the bathroom in the dark can be
dangerous. How would you feel if one morning you discovered that you had peed
where you did not intend to pee?

I recommend 5 quarts of ale instead. The bottles make dandy urine receptacles
so you won't have to get out of bed.

How would you feel if one morning you discovered that you had CONSUMED one
of the "empty" bottles that had been storing your pee?

For accuracy, you may want to invest in a
laser sight. Howard Hughes saved his bottles, but that would entail the danger
of drinking from the wrong bottle in the future.

Note to moderator: Please disregard Ed's request. A man who can hold his liquor
is not a problem drinker.

On 9/12/15 10:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
OK, but I've never heard of using heat for pex. I just tried to find
some information, but I could not find heat being used on a pex fitting.

I found a Flair-It ad on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABX40lp5Vb0

I was surprised at their spelling of "flair." They don't know how to
spell "plumbing," either.

A selling point is that you need no tools. Their connections went
together and came apart so much more easily than in other demos, that I
think they must have warmed the tubing with a hair dryer, if it was PEX.

They made a loop with several connections, loosened the nuts, and
demonstrated that it wouldn't leak at 100 psi. I'd say they slide
together more tightly than other fittings. That could pay off in
environments where nuts might come loose.

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 20:59:30 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

On 9/12/15 4:11 PM, philo wrote:
On 09/12/2015 02:46 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:34:11 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

The hardware man said heat is used to slide PEX onto these fittings.
Rather than explain it, he gave me a piece of polybutylene.

He told you wrong. Heat is never used.

He has been in the business all his life. He keeps his tools hanging at
the store because he has several houses and never knows when a tenant
may have a plumbing emergency. He knows plumbers but it's been so long
since he needed one, that he doesn't know what they charge these days.

People can buy plumbing supplies cheaper at big stores, but he does a
thriving business because he'll give them advice they can count on.
I'll take his word over yours.


Then you would a bigger moron than we expected. PEX is not heated for
_any_ connections. Prove me wrong by providing a link saying so. He
told you a story about PEX, lied about it and then gave you a "piece
of polybutylene." They are not the same animals, fool.

Flaming me and philo won't work. Ed is the group moderator. Get him to
me stop from posting. Write your reasons in this space [ ].

You wanted advice, I gave it, and you didn't like the answer -- tough
doo-doo!

On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 00:00:22 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

On 9/12/15 10:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
OK, but I've never heard of using heat for pex. I just tried to find
some information, but I could not find heat being used on a pex fitting.

I found a Flair-It ad on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABX40lp5Vb0

I was surprised at their spelling of "flair." They don't know how to
spell "plumbing," either.

A selling point is that you need no tools. Their connections went
together and came apart so much more easily than in other demos, that I
think they must have warmed the tubing with a hair dryer, if it was PEX.

They made a loop with several connections, loosened the nuts, and
demonstrated that it wouldn't leak at 100 psi. I'd say they slide
together more tightly than other fittings. That could pay off in
environments where nuts might come loose.

A moron video. Polybutylene fittings are not PEX; nor are the
polybutylene fittings used on PEX.

On 9/13/15 10:47 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 20:59:30 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

On 9/12/15 4:11 PM, philo wrote:
On 09/12/2015 02:46 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:34:11 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

The hardware man said heat is used to slide PEX onto these fittings.
Rather than explain it, he gave me a piece of polybutylene.

He told you wrong. Heat is never used.

He has been in the business all his life. He keeps his tools hanging at
the store because he has several houses and never knows when a tenant
may have a plumbing emergency. He knows plumbers but it's been so long
since he needed one, that he doesn't know what they charge these days.

People can buy plumbing supplies cheaper at big stores, but he does a
thriving business because he'll give them advice they can count on.
I'll take his word over yours.


Then you would a bigger moron than we expected. PEX is not heated for
_any_ connections. Prove me wrong by providing a link saying so. He
told you a story about PEX, lied about it and then gave you a "piece
of polybutylene." They are not the same animals, fool.

Saying something is not true because you didn't read it on the internet
is pretty close to saying something is true because you did read it on
the internet.

When I want plumbing information I can count on, I don't settle for
Google. I turn to a man who has been in the hardware business and the
home rental business 50 years.

PEX doesn't melt until 125C, but at 100 it's soft enough that crimped
connections may fail. At 90, it will take 40% less pressure than at 70.

I need it to yield only a little to go over a Flair-It fitting. 50C,
the temperature at which I wash my hands, would probably be plenty.

Flaming me and philo won't work. Ed is the group moderator. Get him to
me stop from posting. Write your reasons in this space [ ].

Is this all the thanks I get for my helpful personal advice? I'll leave
you with the words of Alfred Painter. "Saying thank you is more than
good manners. It is good spirituality."

On 9/13/15 10:51 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 00:00:22 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

On 9/12/15 10:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
OK, but I've never heard of using heat for pex. I just tried to find
some information, but I could not find heat being used on a pex fitting.

I found a Flair-It ad on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABX40lp5Vb0

I was surprised at their spelling of "flair." They don't know how to
spell "plumbing," either.

A selling point is that you need no tools. Their connections went
together and came apart so much more easily than in other demos, that I
think they must have warmed the tubing with a hair dryer, if it was PEX.

They made a loop with several connections, loosened the nuts, and
demonstrated that it wouldn't leak at 100 psi. I'd say they slide
together more tightly than other fittings. That could pay off in
environments where nuts might come loose.

A moron video. Polybutylene fittings are not PEX; nor are the
polybutylene fittings used on PEX.

They kept saying PEX, and you say they're for polybutylene? Flair-It
didn't become available until polybutylene had been off the market ten
years.

It it bothers you that Flair-It fits tightly enough to hold 100 psi
without a nut, you must not have heard of the Wirsbor/Uponor system.
The fittings are so tight that you need an expander costing hundreds of
dollars. You expand the PEX and slide it easily over the fitting. In
ten seconds you have a connection with a 25-year guarantee, the best in
the business.

On 09/12/2015 07:59 PM, John Somerset wrote:
On 9/12/15 4:11 PM, philo wrote:
On 09/12/2015 02:46 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:34:11 -0400, John Somerset


drivel snipped
n spending the weekend drinking together? Is it the
liquor that makes you talk that way, or do you drink to excuse such
behavior?

Note to moderator: Please suspend the posting privileges of Oren and
philo. It will improve the group, and they need incentive to join a
twelve-step program.



Actually Oren and I do not typically agree much here...at least when it
come to politics.


Basically you can here to ask a question and are simply waiting for the
answer you are looking but not the right one.


I'm not going to waste any more time with you.

bye

On 09/13/2015 09:47 AM, Oren wrote:


Then you would a bigger moron than we expected. PEX is not heated for
_any_ connections. Prove me wrong by providing a link saying so. He
told you a story about PEX, lied about it and then gave you a "piece
of polybutylene." They are not the same animals, fool.



I put the guy in my KF

Since he already knows the answer he should not have come here for "advice".

On 9/14/15 8:33 AM, philo wrote:
Actually Oren and I do not typically agree much here...at least when it
come to politics.


Basically you can here to ask a question and are simply waiting for the
answer you are looking but not the right one.


I'm not going to waste any more time with you.

bye

Philo must be shy. This is the first time he has spoken to me, and he
tells me he has to run and hide.

I described a particular problem with a particular brand of PEX fitting.
I described the solution that a man highly experienced in plumbing
didn't have time to explain. I asked if anyone could explain further and
if all brands had this problem.

Big O told me to learn to install PEX. In other words, "I'm not going
to tell you anything because you are a fool."

That's the only answer I got, so it must be what Philo calls the right
answer. That's the height of arrogance.

From the chat between Philo and Big O, I learned that Philo's total
experience was a single Shark Bite fitting. On that basis, he called the
"clerk" an idiot and said he'd sold me a defective fitting. That's the
height of arrogance.

I'd researched Shark Bite fittings because the hardware store has
stocked them for years. Unlike Philo, I know they are unlike other
fittings.

I learned that the sum of Big O's experience was two connections in a
bathroom, using unspecified fittings. I had asked if another brand would
solve my problem, but he was too arrogant to answer me.

He told Philo I would have to research it. If he'd answered me that way,
it would have been fine. "Sorry, nobody here knows much about PEX.
You'll have to research it." Instead, he took the position that he was
an expert and I was a fool for asking.

So I researched the properties of PEX. It bears out the hardware man's
advice and shows me how much heat I'd probably need. 50C would give me
6 per 1000 expansion and reduce the elastic modulus from 850N/mm2 to
600N/mm2. 80C would give me 12 per 1000 expansion and reduce the
elastic modulus to 300N/mm2. It would be safe because PEX doesn't deform
until 120C or higher.

I remember now that I've gotten great connections with plastic tubing
that way in the past, whether or not it can be found by googling.

I've found the answer I was looking for, and Philo doesn't like ethat.
He says the right one was that I was a fool for asking. That's the
height of arrogance.

On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:32:50 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

On 9/14/15 8:33 AM, philo wrote:
Actually Oren and I do not typically agree much here...at least when it
come to politics.


Basically you can here to ask a question and are simply waiting for the
answer you are looking but not the right one.


I'm not going to waste any more time with you.

bye

Philo must be shy. This is the first time he has spoken to me, and he
tells me he has to run and hide.

I described a particular problem with a particular brand of PEX fitting.
I described the solution that a man highly experienced in plumbing
didn't have time to explain. I asked if anyone could explain further and
if all brands had this problem.

Big O told me to learn to install PEX. In other words, "I'm not going
to tell you anything because you are a fool."

That's the only answer I got, so it must be what Philo calls the right
answer. That's the height of arrogance.

From the chat between Philo and Big O, I learned that Philo's total
experience was a single Shark Bite fitting. On that basis, he called the
"clerk" an idiot and said he'd sold me a defective fitting. That's the
height of arrogance.

I'd researched Shark Bite fittings because the hardware store has
stocked them for years. Unlike Philo, I know they are unlike other
fittings.

I learned that the sum of Big O's experience was two connections in a
bathroom, using unspecified fittings. I had asked if another brand would
solve my problem, but he was too arrogant to answer me.

He told Philo I would have to research it. If he'd answered me that way,
it would have been fine. "Sorry, nobody here knows much about PEX.
You'll have to research it." Instead, he took the position that he was
an expert and I was a fool for asking.

So I researched the properties of PEX. It bears out the hardware man's
advice and shows me how much heat I'd probably need. 50C would give me
6 per 1000 expansion and reduce the elastic modulus from 850N/mm2 to
600N/mm2. 80C would give me 12 per 1000 expansion and reduce the
elastic modulus to 300N/mm2. It would be safe because PEX doesn't deform
until 120C or higher.

I remember now that I've gotten great connections with plastic tubing
that way in the past, whether or not it can be found by googling.

I've found the answer I was looking for, and Philo doesn't like ethat.
He says the right one was that I was a fool for asking. That's the
height of arrogance.




Ha! Put a Polybutylene fitting on PEX using heat, then come back with
the results for those of us with experience.

I've actually been on multiple new home constructions, know something
about PEX, how it works, how fittings are installed using real PEX
fittings, etc.. Not just and extension of two lines on my personal
residence.

Trolling, flaming and insults won't get you the correct answer. Go see
your plumbing guy, the one calling Polybutylene PEX. You must be
dense in the head, or both of you are. I can't make up my mind. I bet
good money you use Apple products.

Get the moderator to stop me from posting. Did you complain the Ed,
yet?

On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:33:35 -0500, philo wrote:


Actually Oren and I do not typically agree much here...at least when it
come to politics.


.... but I still love you anyway

Basically you can here to ask a question and are simply waiting for the
answer you are looking but not the right one.


I bet he can tell you just how great Apple computers are.

Oren posted for all of us...



On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 20:59:30 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

On 9/12/15 4:11 PM, philo wrote:
On 09/12/2015 02:46 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:34:11 -0400, John Somerset
wrote:

The hardware man said heat is used to slide PEX onto these fittings.
Rather than explain it, he gave me a piece of polybutylene.

He told you wrong. Heat is never used.

He has been in the business all his life. He keeps his tools hanging at
the store because he has several houses and never knows when a tenant
may have a plumbing emergency. He knows plumbers but it's been so long
since he needed one, that he doesn't know what they charge these days.

People can buy plumbing supplies cheaper at big stores, but he does a
thriving business because he'll give them advice they can count on.
I'll take his word over yours.


Then you would a bigger moron than we expected. PEX is not heated for
_any_ connections. Prove me wrong by providing a link saying so. He
told you a story about PEX, lied about it and then gave you a "piece
of polybutylene." They are not the same animals, fool.

Flaming me and philo won't work. Ed is the group moderator. Get him to
me stop from posting. Write your reasons in this space [ ].

You wanted advice, I gave it, and you didn't like the answer -- tough
doo-doo!

I think this is the same maroon as that Burns guy. Sure follows his posting
methods.

--
Tekkie