I moved into a 34 year old single floor home.I think it's a concrete
slab. I knew that some tile work needed to be done since the ceramic
tiles (9 1/2 " squares) were lifting off the floor in the hallway
entrance. I hired a local contractor that came recommended by the real
estate agent. The contractor walked around the house hitting all the
tiles with a broomstick handle so he could tell the general state of
the tiles.

Sometime in the past, work had been done in the same area. Twelve
tiles had been removed and replaced with different tiles to form a
diamond pattern by the entrance hallway. It looked really nice and
left some used spare tiles that were in the garage.

The guys reset the tiles, using six of the spares to replace some of
the others that had cracked or been nicked over time. They injected
adhesive between some other tiles to make sure that they didn't come
up. The whole job was just under $900, paid by credit card.

The next morning I walked through the kitchen, heard a CRACK, and over
a 10 second period watched as tiles adjacent to the repaired tiles
lifted up and one even cracked in half and jumped about 6" into the
air. Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the
floor.

The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract
specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles, and
that if this type of thing happens it usually happens when the guys
are actually doing the work. The owner offered to repair the damage
for half price, around $700. But he also said that he couldn't
guarantee that the other kitchen tiles would stay in place and
suggested that it would be more cost effective to have someone redo
the kitchen tiles. There also aren't enough spares to replace all the
tiles that cracked.

I brought the tile that jumped into the air to a nearby tile store and
he says that he tile didn't have enough adhesive on it to begin with.
But the tile guys at Home Depot say that this should not have happened
and that the contractor injected too much adhesive under the tiles.

I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that does happen to
even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow the
payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks think
that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the charge and
complain to the state business people.

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 2:21:30 PM UTC-4, dgk wrote:

This would seem to be the most relevant part:

"the contract specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles"

So, I don't think you're in a good position. I can see how you
could wind up in this position. If I read that contract, I would
think it means that while they are doing the work, removing the loose
tiles, etc, if an adjacent one get's damaged, they aren't responsible.
I would never expect that a day later a lot of them would be cracking.

It's weird, do you know what kind of adhesive they used? If you
had an empty tube of it and can show that it was unsuited to the
job, not recommended for use on tile, or something like that,
then I think you have a cause to get a refund. I guess the lesson here
is that if you have a lot of loose tiles, it shows the job wasn't done right
and it's better to just bite the bullet and redo the whole thing.

dgk wrote:
I moved into a 34 year old single floor home.I think it's a concrete
slab. I knew that some tile work needed to be done since the ceramic
tiles (9 1/2 " squares) were lifting off the floor in the hallway
entrance. I hired a local contractor that came recommended by the real
estate agent. The contractor walked around the house hitting all the
tiles with a broomstick handle so he could tell the general state of
the tiles.

Sometime in the past, work had been done in the same area. Twelve
tiles had been removed and replaced with different tiles to form a
diamond pattern by the entrance hallway. It looked really nice and
left some used spare tiles that were in the garage.

The guys reset the tiles, using six of the spares to replace some of
the others that had cracked or been nicked over time. They injected
adhesive between some other tiles to make sure that they didn't come
up. The whole job was just under $900, paid by credit card.

The next morning I walked through the kitchen, heard a CRACK, and over
a 10 second period watched as tiles adjacent to the repaired tiles
lifted up and one even cracked in half and jumped about 6" into the
air. Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the
floor.

The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract
specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles, and
that if this type of thing happens it usually happens when the guys
are actually doing the work. The owner offered to repair the damage
for half price, around $700. But he also said that he couldn't
guarantee that the other kitchen tiles would stay in place and
suggested that it would be more cost effective to have someone redo
the kitchen tiles. There also aren't enough spares to replace all the
tiles that cracked.

I brought the tile that jumped into the air to a nearby tile store and
he says that he tile didn't have enough adhesive on it to begin with.
But the tile guys at Home Depot say that this should not have happened
and that the contractor injected too much adhesive under the tiles.

I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that does happen to
even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow the
payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks think
that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the charge and
complain to the state business people.

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

I say bad work . There is no reason for a tile repair to exert sideways
force on adjacent tiles . If he used an expanding type (like hydraulic
cement) mix to inject , he screwed up .
But I could be wrong , I only have about 25 years experience with flooring
systems , including tile , hardwood , vinyl , and carpet .
--
Snag

On 9/6/2015 2:21 PM, dgk wrote:




The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract
specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles,

I think you are screwed. Good chance they did cause some of the damage,
but it sounds like it was a poor job to start with. I know it is
expensive, but I'd consider doing the whole floor over again, but with a
different contractor.

Given the contract wording, I don't think you have a chance in court.

On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 13:57:01 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

I say bad work . There is no reason for a tile repair to exert sideways
force on adjacent tiles . If he used an expanding type (like hydraulic
cement) mix to inject , he screwed up .
But I could be wrong , I only have about 25 years experience with flooring
systems , including tile , hardwood , vinyl , and carpet .

I'd be curious about what adhesive was used and how it was applied
_under_ the tile. Was a correct sized toothed trowel used? Grout goes
between the tile edges -- never seen or heard of it "between" the
tiles. Did the contract detail a Statement of Work, materials, etc.?

dgk wrote:
I moved into a 34 year old single floor home.I think it's a concrete
slab. I knew that some tile work needed to be done since the ceramic
tiles (9 1/2 " squares) were lifting off the floor in the hallway
entrance. I hired a local contractor that came recommended by the real
estate agent. The contractor walked around the house hitting all the
tiles with a broomstick handle so he could tell the general state of
the tiles.

Sometime in the past, work had been done in the same area. Twelve
tiles had been removed and replaced with different tiles to form a
diamond pattern by the entrance hallway. It looked really nice and
left some used spare tiles that were in the garage.

The guys reset the tiles, using six of the spares to replace some of
the others that had cracked or been nicked over time. They injected
adhesive between some other tiles to make sure that they didn't come
up. The whole job was just under $900, paid by credit card.

The next morning I walked through the kitchen, heard a CRACK, and over
a 10 second period watched as tiles adjacent to the repaired tiles
lifted up and one even cracked in half and jumped about 6" into the
air. Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the
floor.

The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract
specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles, and
that if this type of thing happens it usually happens when the guys
are actually doing the work. The owner offered to repair the damage
for half price, around $700. But he also said that he couldn't
guarantee that the other kitchen tiles would stay in place and
suggested that it would be more cost effective to have someone redo
the kitchen tiles. There also aren't enough spares to replace all the
tiles that cracked.

I brought the tile that jumped into the air to a nearby tile store and
he says that he tile didn't have enough adhesive on it to begin with.
But the tile guys at Home Depot say that this should not have happened
and that the contractor injected too much adhesive under the tiles.

I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that does happen to
even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow the
payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks think
that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the charge and
complain to the state business people.

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

I cannot imagine anything that would lift up adjacent tiles, the sole
exception being something that expanded as it cured (like foam). If the
latter, it should not have been used...the only thing that should be used to
stick down floor tiles on a slab is either thinset (cementatious) or mastic
and, personally, I wouldn't use mastic.

What I do know is that you were screwed royally on the price...$900 to
replace 12 tiles is ridiculous..

"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
dgk wrote:
I moved into a 34 year old single floor home.I think it's a concrete
slab. I knew that some tile work needed to be done since the ceramic
tiles (9 1/2 " squares) were lifting off the floor in the hallway
entrance. I hired a local contractor that came recommended by the real
estate agent. The contractor walked around the house hitting all the
tiles with a broomstick handle so he could tell the general state of
the tiles.

Sometime in the past, work had been done in the same area. Twelve
tiles had been removed and replaced with different tiles to form a
diamond pattern by the entrance hallway. It looked really nice and
left some used spare tiles that were in the garage.

The guys reset the tiles, using six of the spares to replace some of
the others that had cracked or been nicked over time. They injected
adhesive between some other tiles to make sure that they didn't come
up. The whole job was just under $900, paid by credit card.

The next morning I walked through the kitchen, heard a CRACK, and over
a 10 second period watched as tiles adjacent to the repaired tiles
lifted up and one even cracked in half and jumped about 6" into the
air. Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the
floor.

The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract
specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles, and
that if this type of thing happens it usually happens when the guys
are actually doing the work. The owner offered to repair the damage
for half price, around $700. But he also said that he couldn't
guarantee that the other kitchen tiles would stay in place and
suggested that it would be more cost effective to have someone redo
the kitchen tiles. There also aren't enough spares to replace all the
tiles that cracked.

I brought the tile that jumped into the air to a nearby tile store and
he says that he tile didn't have enough adhesive on it to begin with.
But the tile guys at Home Depot say that this should not have happened
and that the contractor injected too much adhesive under the tiles.

I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that does happen to
even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow the
payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks think
that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the charge and
complain to the state business people.

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

I cannot imagine anything that would lift up adjacent tiles, the sole
exception being something that expanded as it cured (like foam). If the
latter, it should not have been used...the only thing that should be used
to stick down floor tiles on a slab is either thinset (cementatious) or
mastic and, personally, I wouldn't use mastic.

What I do know is that you were screwed royally on the price...$900 to
replace 12 tiles is ridiculous..

reading comprehension is just not your thing, is it?

On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 15:57:32 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

...the only thing that should be used to
stick down floor tiles on a slab is either thinset (cementatious) or mastic
and, personally, I wouldn't use mastic.

Not on ceramic tiles. Mastic is recommend on porcelain tile. My floor
tile is 16x24" porcelain -- mastic was necessary.

Some ceramic tile has a direction it needs to be installed. They are
not always square. You can tell by stacking them up or looking on the
back as to which direction / edge follows the next tile. Not being
square for ceramic may cause the grout lines to travel and not be
straight. Just sayin'

On 9/6/2015 3:57 PM, dadiOH wrote:


What I do know is that you were screwed royally on the price...$900 to
replace 12 tiles is ridiculous..



He has to kick back 25% to the realtor that recommended him.

taxed and spent wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
dgk wrote:
I moved into a 34 year old single floor home.I think it's a concrete
slab. I knew that some tile work needed to be done since the
ceramic tiles (9 1/2 " squares) were lifting off the floor in the
hallway entrance. I hired a local contractor that came recommended
by the real estate agent. The contractor walked around the house
hitting all the tiles with a broomstick handle so he could tell the
general state of the tiles.

Sometime in the past, work had been done in the same area. Twelve
tiles had been removed and replaced with different tiles to form a
diamond pattern by the entrance hallway. It looked really nice and
left some used spare tiles that were in the garage.

The guys reset the tiles, using six of the spares to replace some of
the others that had cracked or been nicked over time. They injected
adhesive between some other tiles to make sure that they didn't come
up. The whole job was just under $900, paid by credit card.

The next morning I walked through the kitchen, heard a CRACK, and
over a 10 second period watched as tiles adjacent to the repaired
tiles lifted up and one even cracked in half and jumped about 6"
into the air. Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer
attached to the floor.

The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the
contract specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to
nearby tiles, and that if this type of thing happens it usually
happens when the guys are actually doing the work. The owner offered to
repair the damage
for half price, around $700. But he also said that he couldn't
guarantee that the other kitchen tiles would stay in place and
suggested that it would be more cost effective to have someone redo
the kitchen tiles. There also aren't enough spares to replace all
the tiles that cracked.

I brought the tile that jumped into the air to a nearby tile store
and he says that he tile didn't have enough adhesive on it to begin
with. But the tile guys at Home Depot say that this should not have
happened and that the contractor injected too much adhesive under
the tiles. I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that does
happen to
even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow
the payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks
think that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the
charge and complain to the state business people.

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

I cannot imagine anything that would lift up adjacent tiles, the sole
exception being something that expanded as it cured (like foam). If
the latter, it should not have been used...the only thing that
should be used to stick down floor tiles on a slab is either thinset
(cementatious) or mastic and, personally, I wouldn't use mastic.

What I do know is that you were screwed royally on the price...$900
to replace 12 tiles is ridiculous..

reading comprehension is just not your thing, is it?

So enlighten me, O Learned One. OP said 12 tiles were worked on and 6 of
the 12 were replaced. It is a ridiculous price, shouldn't take one man more
than half a day even if he loafed most of the time.

"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
taxed and spent wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
dgk wrote:
I moved into a 34 year old single floor home.I think it's a concrete
slab. I knew that some tile work needed to be done since the
ceramic tiles (9 1/2 " squares) were lifting off the floor in the
hallway entrance. I hired a local contractor that came recommended
by the real estate agent. The contractor walked around the house
hitting all the tiles with a broomstick handle so he could tell the
general state of the tiles.

Sometime in the past, work had been done in the same area. Twelve
tiles had been removed and replaced with different tiles to form a
diamond pattern by the entrance hallway. It looked really nice and
left some used spare tiles that were in the garage.

The guys reset the tiles, using six of the spares to replace some of
the others that had cracked or been nicked over time. They injected
adhesive between some other tiles to make sure that they didn't come
up. The whole job was just under $900, paid by credit card.

The next morning I walked through the kitchen, heard a CRACK, and
over a 10 second period watched as tiles adjacent to the repaired
tiles lifted up and one even cracked in half and jumped about 6"
into the air. Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer
attached to the floor.

The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the
contract specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to
nearby tiles, and that if this type of thing happens it usually
happens when the guys are actually doing the work. The owner offered to
repair the damage
for half price, around $700. But he also said that he couldn't
guarantee that the other kitchen tiles would stay in place and
suggested that it would be more cost effective to have someone redo
the kitchen tiles. There also aren't enough spares to replace all
the tiles that cracked.

I brought the tile that jumped into the air to a nearby tile store
and he says that he tile didn't have enough adhesive on it to begin
with. But the tile guys at Home Depot say that this should not have
happened and that the contractor injected too much adhesive under
the tiles. I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that does
happen to
even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow
the payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks
think that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the
charge and complain to the state business people.

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

I cannot imagine anything that would lift up adjacent tiles, the sole
exception being something that expanded as it cured (like foam). If
the latter, it should not have been used...the only thing that
should be used to stick down floor tiles on a slab is either thinset
(cementatious) or mastic and, personally, I wouldn't use mastic.

What I do know is that you were screwed royally on the price...$900
to replace 12 tiles is ridiculous..

reading comprehension is just not your thing, is it?

So enlighten me, O Learned One. OP said 12 tiles were worked on and 6 of
the 12 were replaced. It is a ridiculous price, shouldn't take one man
more than half a day even if he loafed most of the time.

no, he didn't.


he said 12 tiles had previously been replaced in a diamond pattern.

he said the guy used a broomstick to tell the state of the tiles around the
house.

He did not say how many tiles were replaced or adjusted.

He did say that 6 spare tiles were used.

He did not say that only the 12 tiles that had previously been replaced were
replaced or adjusted.

He did not say the number of tiles that were replaced or adjusted for the
$900.

You are welcome,
O Learned One.

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 4:34:02 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
taxed and spent wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
dgk wrote:
I moved into a 34 year old single floor home.I think it's a concrete
slab. I knew that some tile work needed to be done since the
ceramic tiles (9 1/2 " squares) were lifting off the floor in the
hallway entrance. I hired a local contractor that came recommended
by the real estate agent. The contractor walked around the house
hitting all the tiles with a broomstick handle so he could tell the
general state of the tiles.

Sometime in the past, work had been done in the same area. Twelve
tiles had been removed and replaced with different tiles to form a
diamond pattern by the entrance hallway. It looked really nice and
left some used spare tiles that were in the garage.

The guys reset the tiles, using six of the spares to replace some of
the others that had cracked or been nicked over time. They injected
adhesive between some other tiles to make sure that they didn't come
up. The whole job was just under $900, paid by credit card.

The next morning I walked through the kitchen, heard a CRACK, and
over a 10 second period watched as tiles adjacent to the repaired
tiles lifted up and one even cracked in half and jumped about 6"
into the air. Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer
attached to the floor.

The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the
contract specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to
nearby tiles, and that if this type of thing happens it usually
happens when the guys are actually doing the work. The owner offered to
repair the damage
for half price, around $700. But he also said that he couldn't
guarantee that the other kitchen tiles would stay in place and
suggested that it would be more cost effective to have someone redo
the kitchen tiles. There also aren't enough spares to replace all
the tiles that cracked.

I brought the tile that jumped into the air to a nearby tile store
and he says that he tile didn't have enough adhesive on it to begin
with. But the tile guys at Home Depot say that this should not have
happened and that the contractor injected too much adhesive under
the tiles. I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that does
happen to
even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow
the payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks
think that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the
charge and complain to the state business people.

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

I cannot imagine anything that would lift up adjacent tiles, the sole
exception being something that expanded as it cured (like foam). If
the latter, it should not have been used...the only thing that
should be used to stick down floor tiles on a slab is either thinset
(cementatious) or mastic and, personally, I wouldn't use mastic.

What I do know is that you were screwed royally on the price...$900
to replace 12 tiles is ridiculous..

reading comprehension is just not your thing, is it?

So enlighten me, O Learned One. OP said 12 tiles were worked on and 6 of
the 12 were replaced. It is a ridiculous price, shouldn't take one man more
than half a day even if he loafed most of the time.

It's not clear exactly how many were actually replaced, but I agree
with you that from the description, it doesn't sound like it was a lot.

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 5:02:51 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 4:34:02 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
taxed and spent wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
dgk wrote:
I moved into a 34 year old single floor home.I think it's a concrete
slab. I knew that some tile work needed to be done since the
ceramic tiles (9 1/2 " squares) were lifting off the floor in the
hallway entrance. I hired a local contractor that came recommended
by the real estate agent. The contractor walked around the house
hitting all the tiles with a broomstick handle so he could tell the
general state of the tiles.

Sometime in the past, work had been done in the same area. Twelve
tiles had been removed and replaced with different tiles to form a
diamond pattern by the entrance hallway. It looked really nice and
left some used spare tiles that were in the garage.

The guys reset the tiles, using six of the spares to replace some of
the others that had cracked or been nicked over time. They injected
adhesive between some other tiles to make sure that they didn't come
up. The whole job was just under $900, paid by credit card.

The next morning I walked through the kitchen, heard a CRACK, and
over a 10 second period watched as tiles adjacent to the repaired
tiles lifted up and one even cracked in half and jumped about 6"
into the air. Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer
attached to the floor.

The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the
contract specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to
nearby tiles, and that if this type of thing happens it usually
happens when the guys are actually doing the work. The owner offered to
repair the damage
for half price, around $700. But he also said that he couldn't
guarantee that the other kitchen tiles would stay in place and
suggested that it would be more cost effective to have someone redo
the kitchen tiles. There also aren't enough spares to replace all
the tiles that cracked.

I brought the tile that jumped into the air to a nearby tile store
and he says that he tile didn't have enough adhesive on it to begin
with. But the tile guys at Home Depot say that this should not have
happened and that the contractor injected too much adhesive under
the tiles. I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that does
happen to
even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow
the payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks
think that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the
charge and complain to the state business people.

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

I cannot imagine anything that would lift up adjacent tiles, the sole
exception being something that expanded as it cured (like foam). If
the latter, it should not have been used...the only thing that
should be used to stick down floor tiles on a slab is either thinset
(cementatious) or mastic and, personally, I wouldn't use mastic.

What I do know is that you were screwed royally on the price...$900
to replace 12 tiles is ridiculous..

reading comprehension is just not your thing, is it?

So enlighten me, O Learned One. OP said 12 tiles were worked on and 6 of
the 12 were replaced. It is a ridiculous price, shouldn't take one man more
than half a day even if he loafed most of the time.

It's not clear exactly how many were actually replaced, but I agree
with you that from the description, it doesn't sound like it was a lot.

Let's do some math.

"Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the floor.(snip)
The owner offered to repair the damage for half price, around $700."

2 X $700 = $1400
$1400/(around 20) = around $70/tile before the discount (Wow!)

"The whole" (original) "job was just under $900." Can we assume no discount?
None was mentioned.

(just under $900)/(around $70/tile) = just under, around 12.86 tiles repaired
as the original job.

I think my math is correct, but I hope not. 900/(2*700/20)= 12.86

$70/tile for a repair job? As I said earlier...Wow!

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 5:02:51 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 4:34:02 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
taxed and spent wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
dgk wrote:
I moved into a 34 year old single floor home.I think it's a
concrete
slab. I knew that some tile work needed to be done since the
ceramic tiles (9 1/2 " squares) were lifting off the floor in the
hallway entrance. I hired a local contractor that came recommended
by the real estate agent. The contractor walked around the house
hitting all the tiles with a broomstick handle so he could tell the
general state of the tiles.

Sometime in the past, work had been done in the same area. Twelve
tiles had been removed and replaced with different tiles to form a
diamond pattern by the entrance hallway. It looked really nice and
left some used spare tiles that were in the garage.

The guys reset the tiles, using six of the spares to replace some
of
the others that had cracked or been nicked over time. They injected
adhesive between some other tiles to make sure that they didn't
come
up. The whole job was just under $900, paid by credit card.

The next morning I walked through the kitchen, heard a CRACK, and
over a 10 second period watched as tiles adjacent to the repaired
tiles lifted up and one even cracked in half and jumped about 6"
into the air. Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer
attached to the floor.

The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the
contract specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to
nearby tiles, and that if this type of thing happens it usually
happens when the guys are actually doing the work. The owner
offered to
repair the damage
for half price, around $700. But he also said that he couldn't
guarantee that the other kitchen tiles would stay in place and
suggested that it would be more cost effective to have someone redo
the kitchen tiles. There also aren't enough spares to replace all
the tiles that cracked.

I brought the tile that jumped into the air to a nearby tile store
and he says that he tile didn't have enough adhesive on it to begin
with. But the tile guys at Home Depot say that this should not have
happened and that the contractor injected too much adhesive under
the tiles. I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that
does
happen to
even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow
the payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks
think that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the
charge and complain to the state business people.

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

I cannot imagine anything that would lift up adjacent tiles, the
sole
exception being something that expanded as it cured (like foam). If
the latter, it should not have been used...the only thing that
should be used to stick down floor tiles on a slab is either thinset
(cementatious) or mastic and, personally, I wouldn't use mastic.

What I do know is that you were screwed royally on the price...$900
to replace 12 tiles is ridiculous..

reading comprehension is just not your thing, is it?

So enlighten me, O Learned One. OP said 12 tiles were worked on and 6
of
the 12 were replaced. It is a ridiculous price, shouldn't take one man
more
than half a day even if he loafed most of the time.

It's not clear exactly how many were actually replaced, but I agree
with you that from the description, it doesn't sound like it was a lot.

Let's do some math.

"Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the
floor.(snip)
The owner offered to repair the damage for half price, around $700."

2 X $700 = $1400
$1400/(around 20) = around $70/tile before the discount (Wow!)

"The whole" (original) "job was just under $900." Can we assume no
discount?
None was mentioned.

(just under $900)/(around $70/tile) = just under, around 12.86 tiles
repaired
as the original job.

I think my math is correct, but I hope not. 900/(2*700/20)= 12.86

$70/tile for a repair job? As I said earlier...Wow!



I think this is a case that is screaming for the facts to be known.
Something is not right in the OP, even if we try to parse out the language.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/6/2015 2:21 PM, dgk wrote:




The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract
specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles,

I think you are screwed. Good chance they did cause some of the damage,
but it sounds like it was a poor job to start with. I know it is
expensive, but I'd consider doing the whole floor over again, but with a
different contractor.

Given the contract wording, I don't think you have a chance in court.

Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 6:54:41 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/6/2015 2:21 PM, dgk wrote:




The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract
specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles,

I think you are screwed. Good chance they did cause some of the damage,
but it sounds like it was a poor job to start with. I know it is
expensive, but I'd consider doing the whole floor over again, but with a
different contractor.

Given the contract wording, I don't think you have a chance in court.

Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that the contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.

On 09/06/2015 02:21 PM, dgk wrote:
I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that does happen to
even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow the
payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks think
that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the charge and
complain to the state business people.

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

There are a *LOT* of jack-leg hacks in the construction/remodeling
trades. When you have your floors redone, make sure they use
Schluter-DITRA uncoupling membrane.

http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 8:06:38 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 6:54:41 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/6/2015 2:21 PM, dgk wrote:




The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract
specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles,

I think you are screwed. Good chance they did cause some of the damage,
but it sounds like it was a poor job to start with. I know it is
expensive, but I'd consider doing the whole floor over again, but with a
different contractor.

Given the contract wording, I don't think you have a chance in court.

Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that the contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.

As I said before, I think his best shot is if by a miracle there
is an empty tube of whatever this adhesive was still around. I'd
be very curious to know what it was. And if it's something that
isn't appropriate for the application, then I think he's got a case
for a full refund. I think what happened obviously shows that it's
not the right product, but if it says it on the tube, that's a lot
better. Even with the disclaimer about not being responsible for
adjacent tiles, he might be able to win a case on the basis that
the real problem is the contractor was incompetent, that having a
big disaster like this is the result of using the wrong product, etc.

Say for example, a power washing company has a contract to do the
wood siding on your house that says something to the effect of not
being responsible for surface damage. Does that mean
they can use 5000 PSI, totally screw all the siding, then just walk away?
I don't think so, because they violated implicit standards of professional
competency. He might win a similar argument here and I'd probably
stop the payment.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/6/2015 3:57 PM, dadiOH wrote:


What I do know is that you were screwed royally on the price...$900 to
replace 12 tiles is ridiculous..



He has to kick back 25% to the realtor that recommended him.

Maybe he is realtor's brother or kid?

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 8:22:41 PM UTC-4, devnull wrote:
On 09/06/2015 02:21 PM, dgk wrote:
I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that does happen to
even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow the
payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks think
that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the charge and
complain to the state business people.

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

There are a *LOT* of jack-leg hacks in the construction/remodeling
trades. When you have your floors redone, make sure they use
Schluter-DITRA uncoupling membrane.

http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx

I had that once. It was painful, but antibiotic cured it.

| There are a *LOT* of jack-leg hacks in the construction/remodeling
| trades. When you have your floors redone, make sure they use
| Schluter-DITRA uncoupling membrane.
|
| http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx

I happen to be going to a job this week where that
method was used. 6 months ago. Grout is cracking
and at least one tile is loose. I don't know whether
the job was done right, but I find it hard to believe
there's any good reason to float a tile floor on a
sheet of plastic when it can be done with time-
tested thinset on concrete board.

In this case he thinks the subfloor is concrete.
So what are you recommending? That he should maybe
fill in the loose gaps with sand mix, then float a
plastic-sheet-job and raise the whole floor by 1/2"
to 3/4"? That doesn't sound like a plan to me.

There may be hacks in the construction trade,
but it doesn't help that new, untested, "high
tech" replacement methods keep being cooked
up to replace doing things the right way.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 6:54:41 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/6/2015 2:21 PM, dgk wrote:




The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the
contract specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to
nearby tiles,

I think you are screwed. Good chance they did cause some of the
damage, but it sounds like it was a poor job to start with. I know
it is expensive, but I'd consider doing the whole floor over again,
but with a different contractor.

Given the contract wording, I don't think you have a chance in
court.

Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the
contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In
addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that
the contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.

Depends on your point of view . I see this as something caused by the repair
work . Having laid more than a few square feet of tile , I've *never* heard
of this happening . That contractor used something that expanded and put
some pretty extreme pressure on the adjacent tiles - possibly a hydraulic
cement meant to expand into cracks and seal them . I believe I'd hire an
expert witness and sue the rat******* for a comlete new floor , since his
work caused damage . That contract is null and void if you can prove the guy
intentionally caused this problem in hopes of selling a big tile replacemwnt
job . And I think - from the facts as presented - that he did exactly that .
And I'd be going over that contract to see exactly what it says too ...
--
Snag

I'm inclined to agree to a great extent with the
others. You seem to be saying that the $900 job
took less than one day. That's pretty steep. And
why are they squirting in adhesive? What do you
mean by "adhesive"? Hopefully this wasn't tile mastic
on a concrete floor. And why are you walking on it
the next day? There seem to be details missing.
They should have stuck down the loose tiles with
thinset and then grouted the next day. Thinset is
generally a 2-day cure. It shouldn't have been
walked on the next day except to grout, and then
only carefully, with something like a sheet of plywood
to spread the load.

My best guess is that your whole floor is probably
going and is likely to leave you with two choices:
Redo the whole thing, hopefully breaking out the
old tiles first, if you can, or get your self some
thinset and grout, then just re-stick tiles as they
come loose. The latter solution will mean, of
course, that you'll also have to accept putting in
some new tiles that probably won't match.

On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 14:41:06 -0700, "taxed and spent"
wrote:


"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

I cannot imagine anything that would lift up adjacent tiles, the
sole
exception being something that expanded as it cured (like foam). If
the latter, it should not have been used...the only thing that
should be used to stick down floor tiles on a slab is either thinset
(cementatious) or mastic and, personally, I wouldn't use mastic.

What I do know is that you were screwed royally on the price...$900
to replace 12 tiles is ridiculous..

reading comprehension is just not your thing, is it?

So enlighten me, O Learned One. OP said 12 tiles were worked on and 6
of
the 12 were replaced. It is a ridiculous price, shouldn't take one man
more
than half a day even if he loafed most of the time.

It's not clear exactly how many were actually replaced, but I agree
with you that from the description, it doesn't sound like it was a lot.

Let's do some math.

"Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the
floor.(snip)
The owner offered to repair the damage for half price, around $700."

2 X $700 = $1400
$1400/(around 20) = around $70/tile before the discount (Wow!)

"The whole" (original) "job was just under $900." Can we assume no
discount?
None was mentioned.

(just under $900)/(around $70/tile) = just under, around 12.86 tiles
repaired
as the original job.

I think my math is correct, but I hope not. 900/(2*700/20)= 12.86

$70/tile for a repair job? As I said earlier...Wow!



I think this is a case that is screaming for the facts to be known.
Something is not right in the OP, even if we try to parse out the language.


Fair enough. Photos and the work map. I don't know that they did all
the tiles with the X in the map. EIther they were reset, or a hole was
put in the grout and adhesive was pumped in. I hope this link works
for all of you and not just me.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/276109...57657871631940

On 9/6/2015 8:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that the contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.


He said they added some adhesive to existing tiles. That makes them part
of the new work. He is not giving any warranty on the work he is doing,
but putting in an exception.

He is saying "I'll fix it, but if it goes to crap it is not my fault"

On 9/6/2015 9:05 PM, Mayayana wrote:
| There are a *LOT* of jack-leg hacks in the construction/remodeling
| trades. When you have your floors redone, make sure they use
| Schluter-DITRA uncoupling membrane.
|
| http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx

I happen to be going to a job this week where that
method was used. 6 months ago. Grout is cracking
and at least one tile is loose. I don't know whether
the job was done right, but I find it hard to believe
there's any good reason to float a tile floor on a
sheet of plastic when it can be done with time-
tested thinset on concrete board.

In this case he thinks the subfloor is concrete.
So what are you recommending? That he should maybe
fill in the loose gaps with sand mix, then float a
plastic-sheet-job and raise the whole floor by 1/2"
to 3/4"? That doesn't sound like a plan to me.

There may be hacks in the construction trade,
but it doesn't help that new, untested, "high
tech" replacement methods keep being cooked
up to replace doing things the right way.



Number 1 likes it...

http://makeitright.ca/products/appro...ter-ditra-heat

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 9/6/2015 8:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the
contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In
addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that the
contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.


He said they added some adhesive to existing tiles. That makes them part
of the new work. He is not giving any warranty on the work he is doing,
but putting in an exception.

He is saying "I'll fix it, but if it goes to crap it is not my fault"

yes, I don't think it was ADJACENT tiles that are now popping up, it is some
of the tiles the contractor did do SOMETHING to.

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 11:03:54 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/6/2015 8:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that the contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.


He said they added some adhesive to existing tiles. That makes them part
of the new work. He is not giving any warranty on the work he is doing,
but putting in an exception.

He is saying "I'll fix it, but if it goes to crap it is not my fault"

I can't tell if you are agreeing with me that it is not a warranty issue or not...

It sounded to me like the contractor did indeed add adhesive to existing tiles and I agree that that is indeed part of the new work. However, it also sounds to me that it was not any of the tiles he worked on that are the ones that subsequently popped. Had the "new work" tiles popped, then it would be a warranty issue, but if a "nearby" tile popped - with nearby tiles being explicitly excempted in the contract - then it's not technically a warranty issue.

One could argue that the exception is not enforceable, but that's a contract issue, not a warranty issue.

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 11:15:24 PM UTC-4, taxed and spent wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 9/6/2015 8:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the
contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In
addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that the
contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.


He said they added some adhesive to existing tiles. That makes them part
of the new work. He is not giving any warranty on the work he is doing,
but putting in an exception.

He is saying "I'll fix it, but if it goes to crap it is not my fault"

yes, I don't think it was ADJACENT tiles that are now popping up, it is some
of the tiles the contractor did do SOMETHING to.

Are you saying the OP is wrong and/or lying? He specifically said that it was the "adjacent" tiles that were popping and that there was clause that said the contractor wasn't responsible for damage to "nearby tiles".

On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 15:23:39 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/6/2015 2:21 PM, dgk wrote:




The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract
specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles,

I think you are screwed. Good chance they did cause some of the damage,
but it sounds like it was a poor job to start with. I know it is
expensive, but I'd consider doing the whole floor over again, but with a
different contractor.

Given the contract wording, I don't think you have a chance in court.


Silk purse
Sow's ear
Or something like that.

On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 21:05:36 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| There are a *LOT* of jack-leg hacks in the construction/remodeling
| trades. When you have your floors redone, make sure they use
| Schluter-DITRA uncoupling membrane.
|
| http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx

I happen to be going to a job this week where that
method was used. 6 months ago. Grout is cracking
and at least one tile is loose. I don't know whether
the job was done right, but I find it hard to believe
there's any good reason to float a tile floor on a
sheet of plastic when it can be done with time-
tested thinset on concrete board.

In this case he thinks the subfloor is concrete.
So what are you recommending? That he should maybe
fill in the loose gaps with sand mix, then float a
plastic-sheet-job and raise the whole floor by 1/2"
to 3/4"? That doesn't sound like a plan to me.

There may be hacks in the construction trade,
but it doesn't help that new, untested, "high
tech" replacement methods keep being cooked
up to replace doing things the right way.

The ditra is the right way to lay tile on wood substrate - actually
better than cement board if done according to the instructions.
Not sure there is any advantage to using it on an established concrete
floor. One thing it WILL do is prevent cranks in the concrete slab
from damaging the tile.(this is particularly true on a new slab which
may develop cracks after the tile is installed)

On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 20:10:04 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 6:54:41 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/6/2015 2:21 PM, dgk wrote:




The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the
contract specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to
nearby tiles,

I think you are screwed. Good chance they did cause some of the
damage, but it sounds like it was a poor job to start with. I know
it is expensive, but I'd consider doing the whole floor over again,
but with a different contractor.

Given the contract wording, I don't think you have a chance in
court.

Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the
contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In
addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that
the contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.

Depends on your point of view . I see this as something caused by the repair
work . Having laid more than a few square feet of tile , I've *never* heard
of this happening . That contractor used something that expanded and put
some pretty extreme pressure on the adjacent tiles - possibly a hydraulic
cement meant to expand into cracks and seal them . I believe I'd hire an
expert witness and sue the rat******* for a comlete new floor , since his
work caused damage . That contract is null and void if you can prove the guy
intentionally caused this problem in hopes of selling a big tile replacemwnt
job . And I think - from the facts as presented - that he did exactly that .
And I'd be going over that contract to see exactly what it says too ...
Sounds like he used an "expanding grout" and injected it under the
edge of the existing tile as well as in the joint between the old tile
and the new. This is almost guaranteed to pop the old tile, or crack
them if they are well bonded to the slab. I;d say not too smart tile
man doing the repair, POSSIBLY combined with a substandard original
job (no excuse for the original tile to have come loose if done
properly in the first place)

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 11:15:24 PM UTC-4, taxed and spent wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 9/6/2015 8:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the
contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In
addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that
the
contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.


He said they added some adhesive to existing tiles. That makes them
part
of the new work. He is not giving any warranty on the work he is
doing,
but putting in an exception.

He is saying "I'll fix it, but if it goes to crap it is not my fault"

yes, I don't think it was ADJACENT tiles that are now popping up, it is
some
of the tiles the contractor did do SOMETHING to.

Are you saying the OP is wrong and/or lying? He specifically said that it
was the "adjacent" tiles that were popping and that there was clause that
said the contractor wasn't responsible for damage to "nearby tiles".

I am thinking the OP is talking about tiles popping that are adjacent to
removed/replaced tiles. But if the contractor injected stuff under those
now popped tiles, they are not adjacent tiles to the work the contractor
did, they are part of the work the contractor did.

I don't think this is worth pursuing with the contractor or in court. But
it would be good to get to the bottom of it.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 06 Sep 2015 14:21:21 -0400, dgk
wrote:


The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract
specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles, and

This is a problem, but morally and legally it's not necessarily the
deciding fact.

Morally, I've only read a couple replies so far, but I agree with
Trader, that it sounds like you're waiving damage they do directly, and
if you had ever thought that what he did would cause damage that is $500
more than the original job, you would never have agreed to let him do
the job. He named the value of the job as $1400, not you.

Also look up contract of adhesion. That's what you had, a contract
written by them, take it or leave it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_form_contract

AIUI, contractually, you can waive negligence on the other party's part,
but you can't waive gross negligence. If they used the wrong product,
or applied it like no one else would do, I'll bet that is gross
negligence. Both legally and morally.

that if this type of thing happens it usually happens when the guys
are actually doing the work. The owner offered to repair the damage
for half price, around $700. But he also said that he couldn't
guarantee that the other kitchen tiles would stay in place and

Right. After he repairs them for 700, he'll do $2400 damage but be
willing to repair it for 1200.

suggested that it would be more cost effective to have someone redo
the kitchen tiles. There also aren't enough spares to replace all the
tiles that cracked.

Dang.

--

Stumpy Strumpet
the bimbus
for dogcatcher

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 6 Sep 2015 17:06:29 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 6:54:41 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/6/2015 2:21 PM, dgk wrote:




The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract
specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles,

I think you are screwed. Good chance they did cause some of the damage,
but it sounds like it was a poor job to start with. I know it is
expensive, but I'd consider doing the whole floor over again, but with a
different contractor.

Given the contract wording, I don't think you have a chance in court.

Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like

If it's not express, it's implied.

some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that the contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.

Of course there is a warranty and it's an issue. "Contractors must
perform their work, including the selection of materials, in a
workmanlike manner even when their contract does not cover this
requirement, a Missouri Court of Appeals for the Eastern District
recently reaffirmed." But it's the law everywhere.
http://www.herzogcrebs.com/News-Info...kmanlike.shtml
This is just one of many urls on the subject. I don't know where dg
lives.


--

Stumpy Strumpet
the bimbus
for dogcatcher

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 11:03:54 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/6/2015 8:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that the contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.


He said they added some adhesive to existing tiles. That makes them part
of the new work. He is not giving any warranty on the work he is doing,
but putting in an exception.


I like that interpretation and agree. Additionally, especially
considering the amount spent, I would have expected some warranty
on the job.

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 11:23:24 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 11:15:24 PM UTC-4, taxed and spent wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 9/6/2015 8:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the
contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In
addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that the
contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.


He said they added some adhesive to existing tiles. That makes them part
of the new work. He is not giving any warranty on the work he is doing,
but putting in an exception.

He is saying "I'll fix it, but if it goes to crap it is not my fault"

yes, I don't think it was ADJACENT tiles that are now popping up, it is some
of the tiles the contractor did do SOMETHING to.

Are you saying the OP is wrong and/or lying? He specifically said that it was the "adjacent" tiles that were popping and that there was clause that said the contractor wasn't responsible for damage to "nearby tiles".

What they are saying is that by adjacent tiles, the contract should
be interpreted to mean tiles that are OK, don't need to be worked on
at all, break during any removal work, etc. Tiles that the contractor
chose to inject adhesive under are not considered "adjacent", they are
part of the work area.

On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 12:33:33 AM UTC-4, taxed and spent wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 11:15:24 PM UTC-4, taxed and spent wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 9/6/2015 8:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like
some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the
contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In
addition, according to the OP, the contract specifically states that
the
contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.


He said they added some adhesive to existing tiles. That makes them
part
of the new work. He is not giving any warranty on the work he is
doing,
but putting in an exception.

He is saying "I'll fix it, but if it goes to crap it is not my fault"

yes, I don't think it was ADJACENT tiles that are now popping up, it is
some
of the tiles the contractor did do SOMETHING to.

Are you saying the OP is wrong and/or lying? He specifically said that it
was the "adjacent" tiles that were popping and that there was clause that
said the contractor wasn't responsible for damage to "nearby tiles".

I am thinking the OP is talking about tiles popping that are adjacent to
removed/replaced tiles. But if the contractor injected stuff under those
now popped tiles, they are not adjacent tiles to the work the contractor
did, they are part of the work the contractor did.

I don't think this is worth pursuing with the contractor or in court. But
it would be good to get to the bottom of it.

Why on earth isn't it worth pursuing with the contractor? He can
still challenge his credit card payment to start and it's $900, not $25 bucks.

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 10:14:50 PM UTC-4, dgk wrote:
On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 14:41:06 -0700, "taxed and spent"
wrote:


"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

So? **** Happens or Bad Work?

I cannot imagine anything that would lift up adjacent tiles, the
sole
exception being something that expanded as it cured (like foam). If
the latter, it should not have been used...the only thing that
should be used to stick down floor tiles on a slab is either thinset
(cementatious) or mastic and, personally, I wouldn't use mastic.

What I do know is that you were screwed royally on the price...$900
to replace 12 tiles is ridiculous..

reading comprehension is just not your thing, is it?

So enlighten me, O Learned One. OP said 12 tiles were worked on and 6
of
the 12 were replaced. It is a ridiculous price, shouldn't take one man
more
than half a day even if he loafed most of the time.

It's not clear exactly how many were actually replaced, but I agree
with you that from the description, it doesn't sound like it was a lot.

Let's do some math.

"Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the
floor.(snip)
The owner offered to repair the damage for half price, around $700."

2 X $700 = $1400
$1400/(around 20) = around $70/tile before the discount (Wow!)

"The whole" (original) "job was just under $900." Can we assume no
discount?
None was mentioned.

(just under $900)/(around $70/tile) = just under, around 12.86 tiles
repaired
as the original job.

I think my math is correct, but I hope not. 900/(2*700/20)= 12.86

$70/tile for a repair job? As I said earlier...Wow!



I think this is a case that is screaming for the facts to be known.
Something is not right in the OP, even if we try to parse out the language.


Fair enough. Photos and the work map. I don't know that they did all
the tiles with the X in the map. EIther they were reset, or a hole was
put in the grout and adhesive was pumped in. I hope this link works
for all of you and not just me.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/276109...57657871631940

The tiles don't match. I don't know if it's just because of the
photo angle, or maybe it's slight and when you're looking at them
it looks better, but from the pic, looks like a substantial difference.
Likely a moot point anyway, because at this point, I'd just replace
the whole thing.

| Number 1 likes it...
|
| http://makeitright.ca/products/appro...ter-ditra-heat

"Number 1"? I've never heard of whoever it is.
Should I have?

The job I need to fix has the heated pad. The
heat is poor and uneven. Tiles are coming loose.
Grout is cracking. As I said before, I didn't see
the job done, so I don't know whether it was
done properly, but just from looking at the pad
I can see that the tiles end up standing on little
mortar feet. The floor as a sheet can't be very
strong, given the waffle design. Yet it's floating
as a sheet. And how could even a bad install
have affected the heat so much? I found that
when touching different areas the tiles varied
from cold to room temperature on a cold day.
If the wires are built in I'd expect the heating
function to be almost failsafe.

With concrete board the floor becomes
a single slab of mortar. I've also installed heating
wires between concrete board and tile, embedded
in thinset, and it worked well.

The selling points mentioned on that page are
not convincing. "Even if your house shifts, your
tiles won't". They're implying that a mortar bed
or thinset on concrete board install will crack, which
is not true. They also make a claim about being
waterproof. Waterproof is a main feature of tile.
It doesn't need a plastic pad underneath for that.
If water gets through it's going to do so around
the edges, under the basboard. A plastic waffle isn't
going to help that.

I don't say that I know it to be a bad method. I'm
just saying it's not time-tested. It's a private (no
doubt patented) invention that logically has no
selling point that I can see, and raises questions
about the integrity/crack-resistance of the final slab.

My suspicion is that, like many things, it's becoming
popular because it's quicker and easier than concrete
board.

I imagine lots of official people will also highly
recommend the new plastic plumbing hoses. They're
easier than soldering copper. Will they still be holding
in 20 years? There's really no way to know. I doubt
that's a consideration for most plumbers. It's legal. It's
easy. So they use it.
There's already a problem with corrugate stainless
steel flexible gas hose. Lightning strikes blow holes in
it. Yet it's being used throughout houses. It's easy.
It's "high-tech".
The whole thing makes me curious
about what kind of lobbying happens between the makers
of these products and the state building commissions
who approve them.

I'm wary of the constant flow of new inventions that
may seem fancy and get marketed heavily, but won't
necessarily stand the test of time.