Not Fort Knox, just a kayak, stored on the beach in a salt-water
environment.

Windsurfing shop nearby had a bunch of boards stolen couple years back
and the perp used bolt cutters on the cables.

What I am thinking is the smallest gauge chain that will resist
garden-variety, low-end Home Depot/Lowe's bolt cutters.

Is this realistic, or can low-end bolt cutters get through 3/8" chain
(the largest size I would consider). If so, I guess I would fall back
to the smallest chain that a pair of diagonal cutting pliers could not
cut.

Also, there is matching a padlock to the chain..... The padlocks I saw
at Home Depot today probably resist bolt cutters at least as much as
3/8" chain, but did not look all that robust in the context of salt
spray and blowing sand 24-7. Maybe some sort of bag around the lock?

Galvanized, of course....
--
Pete Cresswell

On Tue, 01 Sep 2015 10:51:35 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Not Fort Knox, just a kayak, stored on the beach in a salt-water
environment.

Windsurfing shop nearby had a bunch of boards stolen couple years back
and the perp used bolt cutters on the cables.

What I am thinking is the smallest gauge chain that will resist
garden-variety, low-end Home Depot/Lowe's bolt cutters.

Is this realistic, or can low-end bolt cutters get through 3/8" chain
(the largest size I would consider). If so, I guess I would fall back
to the smallest chain that a pair of diagonal cutting pliers could not
cut.

Also, there is matching a padlock to the chain..... The padlocks I saw
at Home Depot today probably resist bolt cutters at least as much as
3/8" chain, but did not look all that robust in the context of salt
spray and blowing sand 24-7. Maybe some sort of bag around the lock?

Galvanized, of course....

I don't know where you are but in Florida, salt water will trash a
galvanized chain pretty fast.

This is about 2 years old

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/rusty%20chain.jpg

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
...

Also, there is matching a padlock to the chain..... The padlocks I saw
at Home Depot today probably resist bolt cutters at least as much as
3/8" chain, but did not look all that robust in the context of salt
spray and blowing sand 24-7. Maybe some sort of bag around the lock?

Galvanized, of course....
--
Pete Cresswell


Home Cheapo is the place to go for all your tools made in China. When I buy
a tool I expect it to last beyond the first use, which often is not the case
with that crap from China. One thing is su Chinks can't drive and they
can't make good tools.

Any questions?

wrote in message ...

On Tue, 01 Sep 2015 10:51:35 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Not Fort Knox, just a kayak, stored on the beach in a salt-water
environment.

Windsurfing shop nearby had a bunch of boards stolen couple years back
and the perp used bolt cutters on the cables.

What I am thinking is the smallest gauge chain that will resist
garden-variety, low-end Home Depot/Lowe's bolt cutters.

Is this realistic, or can low-end bolt cutters get through 3/8" chain
(the largest size I would consider). If so, I guess I would fall back
to the smallest chain that a pair of diagonal cutting pliers could not
cut.

Also, there is matching a padlock to the chain..... The padlocks I saw
at Home Depot today probably resist bolt cutters at least as much as
3/8" chain, but did not look all that robust in the context of salt
spray and blowing sand 24-7. Maybe some sort of bag around the lock?

Galvanized, of course....

I don't know where you are but in Florida, salt water will trash a
galvanized chain pretty fast.

I am about 2 years old

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/rusty%20chain.jpg

On Tue, 01 Sep 2015 10:51:35 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Not Fort Knox, just a kayak, stored on the beach in a salt-water
environment.

Windsurfing shop nearby had a bunch of boards stolen couple years back
and the perp used bolt cutters on the cables.

What I am thinking is the smallest gauge chain that will resist
garden-variety, low-end Home Depot/Lowe's bolt cutters.

Is this realistic, or can low-end bolt cutters get through 3/8" chain
(the largest size I would consider). If so, I guess I would fall back
to the smallest chain that a pair of diagonal cutting pliers could not
cut.

Also, there is matching a padlock to the chain..... The padlocks I saw
at Home Depot today probably resist bolt cutters at least as much as
3/8" chain, but did not look all that robust in the context of salt
spray and blowing sand 24-7. Maybe some sort of bag around the lock?

Galvanized, of course....

One idea:

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-New-York-Fahgettaboudit-U-Loc/dp/B003UWEE5W/ref=pd_sim_sbs_60_3/190-1215504-2448911?ie=UTF8&refRID=1R9NKFBDC1CPT1D7Q720

https://tinyurl.com/nf4unku

Per :
I don't know where you are but in Florida, salt water will trash a
galvanized chain pretty fast.

This is about 2 years old

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/rusty%20chain.jpg

Wow!.... *That* is impressive....

Alternatives?

When I kept my HobieCat moored off the Outrigger Canoe Club in Hawaii,
we used stainless steel cable and Nico-Press fittings for the mooring
setup that the buoys were anchored to. I used it for a few years and
it was looking pretty good several years after that.

The "Anchor" for this chain will be a 4-foot section of a bigass piling
that's been washed up on the beach for a couple of years now - the
section layed horizontal and buried to about a foot below surface level.

After seeing your pic - and pricing chain - I am thinking about
looping/NicoPressing stainless steel cable (which I already have - old
Hobie rigging) around the piling and attaching chain to cable.

Besides reducing the amount of chain that I have to buy initially, this
would also reduce the number of feet of chain that have to be replaced
after a few years and make replacement less work.

Chain bites the big one: scoop away the sand, cut the bad stuff off,
attach new chain to the cable via one of those pound-in links.

Then the question becomes "What kind of NicoPress sleeves?"....
electrolysis and all that....

OTOH, maybe *I* won't last a few years: Problem Solved..... -)
--
Pete Cresswell

Per Oren:
One idea:

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-New-York-Fahgettaboudit-U-Loc/dp/B003UWEE5W/ref=pd_sim_sbs_60_3/190-1215504-2448911?ie=UTF8&refRID=1R9NKFBDC1CPT1D7Q720

https://tinyurl.com/nf4unku

I am thinking my primary concern will be infiltration of sand and salt
into the tumbler mechanism.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:50:13 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Oren:
One idea:

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-New-York-Fahgettaboudit-U-Loc/dp/B003UWEE5W/ref=pd_sim_sbs_60_3/190-1215504-2448911?ie=UTF8&refRID=1R9NKFBDC1CPT1D7Q720

https://tinyurl.com/nf4unku

I am thinking my primary concern will be infiltration of sand and salt
into the tumbler mechanism.

Think Duct Tape

Per Oren:
One idea:

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-New-York-Fahgettaboudit-U-Loc/dp/B003UWEE5W/ref=pd_sim_sbs_60_3/190-1215504-2448911?ie=UTF8&refRID=1R9NKFBDC1CPT1D7Q720
https://tinyurl.com/nf4unku

Tangentially: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/op...ike-thief.html

I especially liked the battery-powered electric grinder approach.... -)
--
Pete Cresswell

On Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:58:15 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Oren:
One idea:

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-New-York-Fahgettaboudit-U-Loc/dp/B003UWEE5W/ref=pd_sim_sbs_60_3/190-1215504-2448911?ie=UTF8&refRID=1R9NKFBDC1CPT1D7Q720
https://tinyurl.com/nf4unku

Tangentially: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/op...ike-thief.html

I especially liked the battery-powered electric grinder approach.... -)

Like a burglar, if they want in or want to take your property, they
will find a way. Find a way to protect your belongings and another
will find a way to take it away. Prisons are full of some pretty smart
people. As I believe -- locks are for honest people. Just a fact.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:58:15 -0400,
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Per Oren:
One idea:

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-New-York-Fahgettaboudit-U-Loc/dp/B003UWEE5W/ref=pd_sim_sbs_60_3/190-1215504-2448911?ie=UTF8&refRID=1R9NKFBDC1CPT1D7Q720
https://tinyurl.com/nf4unku

Tangentially: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/op...ike-thief.html

I especially liked the battery-powered electric grinder approach.... -)

A friend ran a ministorage. If customers bought a lock from her, she
already had a key to it, but if they used their own and she had to get
in, after they had stopped paying for a long time, they used an angle
grinder, AC powered. The best locks that fit the doors were the ones
that look like hockey pucks, with a thick bolt that went in a circle
when you locked or unlocked it. Is that clea?

She worked there 25 years and never had a big fight with a customer or
anyone. She learned how to handle people from the owner, who didn't do
things like padlock the locker with his own lock if they didn't pay, and
then make them pay up to get their stuff back. Even if they were 2 or 3
months behind, she would call them and tell them to come and get their
stuff, without paying what they owed, and if they didn't come -- I think
she gave them 2 weeks but maybe more if they had a good story. But I
think they all came within a week if they were coming at all. And when
they didn't she sometimes gave me first crack at the stuff and then the
guy who cleaned out the locker.

She had about 600 lockers of various sizes that were all rented for 15
years and mostly for the remaining 10 (so she dealt with thousands of
poeple) , a small girl, worked in the office alone, often took cash for
payments, but was never robbed or hassled. Sometimes lockers were
broken into but usually by drug-dealing partners who didn't want to be
partners anymore.
Stumpy Strumpet
the bimbus
for dogcatcher

On Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:44:53 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :
I don't know where you are but in Florida, salt water will trash a
galvanized chain pretty fast.

This is about 2 years old

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/rusty%20chain.jpg

Wow!.... *That* is impressive....

Alternatives?

When I kept my HobieCat moored off the Outrigger Canoe Club in Hawaii,
we used stainless steel cable and Nico-Press fittings for the mooring
setup that the buoys were anchored to. I used it for a few years and
it was looking pretty good several years after that.

The "Anchor" for this chain will be a 4-foot section of a bigass piling
that's been washed up on the beach for a couple of years now - the
section layed horizontal and buried to about a foot below surface level.

After seeing your pic - and pricing chain - I am thinking about
looping/NicoPressing stainless steel cable (which I already have - old
Hobie rigging) around the piling and attaching chain to cable.

Besides reducing the amount of chain that I have to buy initially, this
would also reduce the number of feet of chain that have to be replaced
after a few years and make replacement less work.

Chain bites the big one: scoop away the sand, cut the bad stuff off,
attach new chain to the cable via one of those pound-in links.

Then the question becomes "What kind of NicoPress sleeves?"....
electrolysis and all that....

OTOH, maybe *I* won't last a few years: Problem Solved..... -)

The kayak place up the street from me secures them with SS cable.
It will stop the casual thief but if they bring tools, there is not
much that will stop them. Nothing will stop a grinder.

Per :

The kayak place up the street from me secures them with SS cable.
It will stop the casual thief but if they bring tools, there is not
much that will stop them. Nothing will stop a grinder.

Any idea what they use to join the SS cable?

In a prior post, I cited NicoPress in a mooring application but now that
I am thinking about it I'm not so sure.

Checked out "Galvanized" u-bolt type connectors at Home Depot, but the
"U" part looked to me like it would corrode quickly.

I'm thinking a wrap of SS cable around the buried piling and then chain
from the buried piling to the surface.... that being predicated on the
(unwarranted?) assumption that there is some weight of chain 3/8" or
less that is significantly harder to cut than cable.

Cable exposed to the public, I would not trust - both because any old
bolt cutter can easily cut it and because somebody with patience can cut
it one-strand-at-a-time with a pair of diagonal cutting pliers or even a
screw driver used as a twisting lever... been there, done that when I
lost the key to my bike lock with 1/2" SS cable.

But SS cable buried with the right connectors would seem to be very long
lasting.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 10:51:42 AM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Not Fort Knox, just a kayak, stored on the beach in a salt-water
environment.

Windsurfing shop nearby had a bunch of boards stolen couple years back
and the perp used bolt cutters on the cables.

What I am thinking is the smallest gauge chain that will resist
garden-variety, low-end Home Depot/Lowe's bolt cutters.

....snip...
--
Pete Cresswell

I can't remember if I was a mischievous teenager or not, but if I was, I
imagine that the bigger the chain, the higher the odds that I would have
taken action to show you a thing or two. I can't take your kayak for a joy
ride? Well, I can probably put a hole it.

That's something you can't really protect against without on-site security,
so you may be wasting your time trying to prevent anything other than
the basic no-tool variety of theft. Sure, prevent the casual "it's not even
secured" type of theft/usage but once you try to get fancy, there may be
little to no return on your investment.

Will there be any type of security lighting? Motion detection? Signs stating
that video surveillance is in use?

Fake dogs barking? -- Kidding!

How about an acceleration switch inside the kayak that sounds an alarm if it
is moved by more than just a jostle? You don't want the alarm going off if
someone bumps it or sits on it, but if it moves more than say 20° then the
alarm should sound. Velcro or the newer 3M Dual Lock type fastener tape could hold the alarm securely inside the kayak.

How about a wire threaded through the chain that sounds an alarm and turns
on lights, if cut?

Just brainstorming here...

On Wed, 02 Sep 2015 13:38:09 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :

The kayak place up the street from me secures them with SS cable.
It will stop the casual thief but if they bring tools, there is not
much that will stop them. Nothing will stop a grinder.

Any idea what they use to join the SS cable?


They use the crimped ferrules with eyes on each end that they padlock
together.

In a prior post, I cited NicoPress in a mooring application but now that
I am thinking about it I'm not so sure.

Checked out "Galvanized" u-bolt type connectors at Home Depot, but the
"U" part looked to me like it would corrode quickly.

I'm thinking a wrap of SS cable around the buried piling and then chain
from the buried piling to the surface.... that being predicated on the
(unwarranted?) assumption that there is some weight of chain 3/8" or
less that is significantly harder to cut than cable.

Cable exposed to the public, I would not trust - both because any old
bolt cutter can easily cut it and because somebody with patience can cut
it one-strand-at-a-time with a pair of diagonal cutting pliers or even a
screw driver used as a twisting lever... been there, done that when I
lost the key to my bike lock with 1/2" SS cable.

But SS cable buried with the right connectors would seem to be very long
lasting.

Maybe, if this is that much of a theft problem, you should take the
kayak home. Nothing is going to stop a determined thief.

Per :
Maybe, if this is that much of a theft problem, you should take the
kayak home. Nothing is going to stop a determined thief.

I would agree. But I am thinking of it as more of a moron/drunk
problem right now. But that could change.
--
Pete Cresswell

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in news:8febua56hl67dgp048vd6usai8uekn3d4p@
4ax.com:

Not Fort Knox, just a kayak, stored on the beach in a salt-water
environment.

Windsurfing shop nearby had a bunch of boards stolen couple years back
and the perp used bolt cutters on the cables.

Keep in mind that there is *nothing* you can do to prevent a sufficiently determined thief from
stealing your kayak. The best strategy IMO is to make your kayak more difficult to steal than
your neighbors' kayaks.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in
news:8febua56hl67dgp048vd6usai8uekn3d4p@
4ax.com:

Not Fort Knox, just a kayak, stored on the beach in a salt-water
environment.

Windsurfing shop nearby had a bunch of boards stolen couple years back
and the perp used bolt cutters on the cables.

Keep in mind that there is *nothing* you can do to prevent a sufficiently
determined thief from
stealing your kayak. The best strategy IMO is to make your kayak more
difficult to steal than
your neighbors' kayaks.

That's a good idea and a variation of the old joke "I don't have to outrun
the bear, I just have to outrun YOU!" (-:

--
Bobby G.