On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 10:18:12 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 19:03:02 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 9:59:57 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 9:08:26 PM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Frank:
Heard that story from someone else who said his son had set his house up
with such a generator and it failed first time he needed it.

My portable generator, 9 years old, works fine.

Unless outages are more frequent that they are around here, I think the
substantial PITA factor of deploying two portables is more than
compensated for by the reliability factor of a much simpler setup.

I started out with a single portable (2kw) because our house cruises on
800-1200 watts. Got the second one for redundancy - but being able to
run the big microwave, the toaster, and/or the coffee maker is a
nice-to-have.


A few more years and I may have a change of heart... but that's the way
I see it now.
--
Pete Cresswell

if you ever vacation in the winter where things can freeze.you will regret the day you didnt get a automatic standby generator.

as your cleaing up and dealing with frozen smashed toilets, frozen dishwasher, frozen washing machine etc etc.....

if you have a boiler for stem heat, it will be very worse.....

if you get a auto standby geneator that doesnt stop you from buying a portable too.

and with all the computer hacking the feds have admitted our power grid can be attacked.

so add in someone intentionally turning our power off

lastly if you have a auto backup generator at least monthly trip off the main breaker, and allow the backup to do its thing and confirm it works......

i mean isnt that common sense?
The only thing worse than not having a generator when you need one
is having one, depending on it, and having it not work.

so do a monthly test run, just turn off the main breaker, and if the home doesnt within a couple minutes power back up

On 07/19/2015 08:08 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

[snip]

Unless outages are more frequent that they are around here, I think the
substantial PITA factor of deploying two portables is more than
compensated for by the reliability factor of a much simpler setup.

I had been considering one of those big things, but now I agree with you.

I started out with a single portable (2kw) because our house cruises on
800-1200 watts. Got the second one for redundancy - but being able to
run the big microwave, the toaster, and/or the coffee maker is a
nice-to-have.

[snip]

Redundancy is good, although you need to run both a while every month.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"I'm a born-again atheist." [Gore Vidal]

On 07/19/2015 08:59 PM, bob haller wrote:

[snip]

if you ever vacation in the winter where things can freeze.you will regret the day you didnt get a automatic standby generator.

as your cleaing up and dealing with frozen smashed toilets, frozen dishwasher, frozen washing machine etc etc.....

if you have a boiler for stem heat, it will be very worse.....

if you get a auto standby geneator that doesnt stop you from buying a portable too.

and with all the computer hacking the feds have admitted our power grid can be attacked.

so add in someone intentionally turning our power off


I read this novel where the Chinese cut of power in part of the US. A
lot of standby generators were poorly maintained and wouldn't start.

--
"Who are you to criticize me for god's choice to make me an atheist?"

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 21:39:46 -0500, Sam E
wrote:

On 07/19/2015 08:59 PM, bob haller wrote:

[snip]

if you ever vacation in the winter where things can freeze.you will
regret the day you didnt get a automatic standby generator.

as your cleaing up and dealing with frozen smashed toilets, frozen
dishwasher, frozen washing machine etc etc.....

if you have a boiler for stem heat, it will be very worse.....

if you get a auto standby geneator that doesnt stop you from buying a
portable too.

and with all the computer hacking the feds have admitted our power grid
can be attacked.

so add in someone intentionally turning our power off


I read this novel where the Chinese cut of power in part of the US. A
lot of standby generators were poorly maintained and wouldn't start.

I guess one nuke detonated high up could shut down a good share of the
U.S. Wouldn't one have to have a huge supply of fuel on hand if that
happens?
I imagine it would take some time to get anything up and running again.
I've heard Texas is on it's own as far as power goes.

--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 19:28:59 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 10:18:12 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 19:03:02 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 9:59:57 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 9:08:26 PM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Frank:
Heard that story from someone else who said his son had set his house up
with such a generator and it failed first time he needed it.

My portable generator, 9 years old, works fine.

Unless outages are more frequent that they are around here, I think the
substantial PITA factor of deploying two portables is more than
compensated for by the reliability factor of a much simpler setup.

I started out with a single portable (2kw) because our house cruises on
800-1200 watts. Got the second one for redundancy - but being able to
run the big microwave, the toaster, and/or the coffee maker is a
nice-to-have.


A few more years and I may have a change of heart... but that's the way
I see it now.
--
Pete Cresswell

if you ever vacation in the winter where things can freeze.you will regret the day you didnt get a automatic standby generator.

as your cleaing up and dealing with frozen smashed toilets, frozen dishwasher, frozen washing machine etc etc.....

if you have a boiler for stem heat, it will be very worse.....

if you get a auto standby geneator that doesnt stop you from buying a portable too.

and with all the computer hacking the feds have admitted our power grid can be attacked.

so add in someone intentionally turning our power off

lastly if you have a auto backup generator at least monthly trip off the main breaker, and allow the backup to do its thing and confirm it works......

i mean isnt that common sense?
The only thing worse than not having a generator when you need one
is having one, depending on it, and having it not work.

so do a monthly test run, just turn off the main breaker, and if the home doesnt within a couple minutes power back up
That just means it worked the last time you tested it - and if you
didn't test it for 6 months you'd still know it ran the last time you
tested it. I've heard a LOT of noise about the permanently installed
Generac air cooled units being total junk. Like not working 2 days
after a test run, when the power goes out. And not lasting as long as
a cheap Briggs and Stratton.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 17:12:17 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Ed Pawlowski:
You might be restricted from many things that are inconsequential in
normal lives.

I'd never move to a place with an HOA. Fiefdoms are a thing of the past,
or at least should be.

I arrived at the same conclusion after watching a few condo buildings in
Hawaii. I came away with the impression that participation in HOA
governing bodies attracts a certain type of person - and it's not the
type of person I would want running my life, even a tiny sliver of it.

There's a lot of truth to that, but you'd better check carefully to make
sure there is no HOA.

In Md. or maybe Central Md. or maybe Baltimore County, every new
neighborhood where one person subdivides a parcel for housing must have
an HOA. It doesn't have to meet or collect dues but there has to be
one.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 21:36:41 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 07/19/2015 08:08 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

[snip]

Unless outages are more frequent that they are around here, I think the
substantial PITA factor of deploying two portables is more than
compensated for by the reliability factor of a much simpler setup.

I had been considering one of those big things, but now I agree with you.

I started out with a single portable (2kw) because our house cruises on
800-1200 watts. Got the second one for redundancy - but being able to
run the big microwave, the toaster, and/or the coffee maker is a
nice-to-have.

[snip]

Redundancy is good, although you need to run both a while every month.
I have a tri-fuel Champion unit at the house and a dual fuel (propane
and Gasoline) at the office. If you are going to test run them, run
them long enough to get them fully warmed up and the battery
replenished from starting - or better to just leave them sit. Properly
stored, a Propane or NG powered unit should be OK sitting for several
YEARS without starting, as long as the battery is properly maintained.
A 440CC engine might be a bit challenging to start with the rope
starter when cold and the fuel system not primed.

A gasoline unit would need the fuel freshened every once in a while.
Store the unit dry and keep a supply of ethanol free fuel on hand -
kept fresh by rotating into your road vehicle or other regularly used
equipment..

The office unit has 2 30 lb propane bottles sitting waiting, and a 20
lb BarB Q tank with however much happens to be left in it at any time
as a spare.

The home unit runs off NG, but I have the adaptor to also run off
Propane if required and I generally have at least 1 20 lb tank on
hand, as well as a few gallons of Gasoline for the
lawnmower/snowblower etc which can be pressed into use if required.

I start them twice a year to test, and that's more than adequate

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 21:39:46 -0500, Sam E
wrote:

On 07/19/2015 08:59 PM, bob haller wrote:

[snip]

if you ever vacation in the winter where things can freeze.you will regret the day you didnt get a automatic standby generator.

as your cleaing up and dealing with frozen smashed toilets, frozen dishwasher, frozen washing machine etc etc.....

if you have a boiler for stem heat, it will be very worse.....

if you get a auto standby geneator that doesnt stop you from buying a portable too.

and with all the computer hacking the feds have admitted our power grid can be attacked.

so add in someone intentionally turning our power off


I read this novel where the Chinese cut of power in part of the US. A
lot of standby generators were poorly maintained and wouldn't start.
Chinese generators, too, I'll bet. (Most sold in USA and Canada are)

On 07/19/2015 11:12 PM, wrote:
I've heard a LOT of noise about the permanently installed
Generac air cooled units being total junk. Like not working 2 days
after a test run, when the power goes out. And not lasting as long as
a cheap Briggs and Stratton.

I've got a 6-year-old 16k Generac and never had a problem with it.
Every summer we get a really nasty thunderstorm that knocks out
power for 72 hours. Generac has saved the day every time.

That being said, I also had a power inlet installed so that I can easily
attach a portable...if I ever need. ;-)

FWIW, back in the good-old-days (before deregulation), the power lines
were cleared of trees and the power never went out.
We didn't need no stinkin' generators.

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 4:40:28 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/19/2015 2:03 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 07/19/2015 08:36 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/19/2015 8:18 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Take a look at the generac reviews on Amazon.
A lot of people with real bad reviews, even with
new units. I had a neighbor with one about 5
years old, failed during an outage and dealer
told him not worth fixing.


Sounds like that unit totally failed to do what
it was paid to do. Not good.


It seems like there ought to be some sort of warranty coverage, even
after several years. When you buy an expensive thing and don't get ANY
use out of it.


Sure, park a $40,000 Buick in your garage for four years and see what
kind of warranty coverage you get.

Perhaps it should have been used more to maintain it in working order.
Many generators are started once a month for that reason.

It self started once a week fine. AFAIK, serviced regularly too, the guy
wasn't cheap. As I said, if you look at reviews on Amazon, a lot of people
complaining of similar failures, including new units right out of the box where they were defective and Generac made all kinds of excuses and would keep fixing it instead of swapping it out. I came to the conclusion I'd never buy one.

On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 8:43:18 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 4:40:28 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/19/2015 2:03 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 07/19/2015 08:36 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/19/2015 8:18 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Take a look at the generac reviews on Amazon.
A lot of people with real bad reviews, even with
new units. I had a neighbor with one about 5
years old, failed during an outage and dealer
told him not worth fixing.


Sounds like that unit totally failed to do what
it was paid to do. Not good.


It seems like there ought to be some sort of warranty coverage, even
after several years. When you buy an expensive thing and don't get ANY
use out of it.


Sure, park a $40,000 Buick in your garage for four years and see what
kind of warranty coverage you get.

Perhaps it should have been used more to maintain it in working order.
Many generators are started once a month for that reason.

It self started once a week fine. AFAIK, serviced regularly too, the guy
wasn't cheap. As I said, if you look at reviews on Amazon, a lot of people
complaining of similar failures, including new units right out of the box where they were defective and Generac made all kinds of excuses and would keep fixing it instead of swapping it out. I came to the conclusion I'd never buy one.


I got rid of a generac 4000 watt portable. it had a sealed electronics box, that failed twice. it failed and cost a fortune. my best friend got interested, cut the sealed box open, removed the potting material. he added a staring switch, start engine, let it run a minute, then push this heavy button till the engine loaded up. it worked well, and i loaned it to a friend who needed it, he liked it so well i sold it to him., later he moved out of the area

at that point it even with no load consumed too much gasolie per hour. the bigger the engine size / wattage, the more gasoline it uses, and at little to no load.....

On 07/20/2015 03:35 AM, Jack Stud wrote:

[snip]

FWIW, back in the good-old-days (before deregulation), the power lines
were cleared of trees and the power never went out.
We didn't need no stinkin' generators.

Here, there have been 3 major power outages. All involved trees falling
on the line.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." -- Nietzsche

On 07/20/2015 11:21 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 07/20/2015 03:35 AM, Jack Stud wrote:

[snip]

FWIW, back in the good-old-days (before deregulation), the power lines
were cleared of trees and the power never went out.
We didn't need no stinkin' generators.

Here, there have been 3 major power outages. All involved trees falling
on the line.


It makes sense when "outages" is followed by "since 1998" as it should
have been.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." -- Nietzsche

Per bob haller:
if you ever vacation in the winter where things can freeze.you will regret the day you didnt get a automatic standby generator.

My vacationing days are over - but I take your point.... had not thought
of that.

OTOH, when we did leave the house we learned to drain the water system
before leaving. The lesson that taught us that was the #1 daughter's
copper plumbing suddenly springing multiple pinhole leaks from something
to do with the character of their water... they weren't away and it
wasn't winter... but if they were away the house would have been nearly
totaled.

But five days of freezing temps even without water in the system? I
can't think anything good could come out of that.
--
Pete Cresswell

Per Jack Stud:
FWIW, back in the good-old-days (before deregulation), the power lines
were cleared of trees and the power never went out.
We didn't need no stinkin' generators.

I was "walking the lines" one winter after a major storm had cut power
for many, many people. (everybody in the company who could be spared
and who was willing got trained on how to "walk the lines" and spot
problems after a storm).

One guy started ranting at me about how he had never, ever, in his whole
life seen power outages like he saw when he moved here.

"Where did you live before coming here?"

"Saudi Arabia"

"Lotta trees in Saudi Arabia, are there?"

"Oh......."
--
Pete Cresswell

Per Mark Lloyd:
Redundancy is good, although you need to run both a while every month.

I do that and, mainly for OCD reasons - but partially to help shed some
light on a recurrent phenom reported in the EU2000 forum, I keep a log
that includes the number of pulls needed to start.

Tests are more-or-less painless once one installs a petcock between fuel
pump and carb. To test: chokes on, flip the petcocks on, pull the
cords, choke off once a gennie starts, flip the petcocks off, and walk
away.

I implied that I do it once per month, but it's really more like when I
happen to be in the garden shed where the gennies live and I happen to
think of it.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 07/20/2015 08:16 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Mark Lloyd:
Redundancy is good, although you need to run both a while every month.

I do that and, mainly for OCD reasons - but partially to help shed some
light on a recurrent phenom reported in the EU2000 forum, I keep a log
that includes the number of pulls needed to start.

Tests are more-or-less painless once one installs a petcock between fuel
pump and carb. To test: chokes on, flip the petcocks on, pull the
cords, choke off once a gennie starts, flip the petcocks off, and walk
away.

Do you believe using the petcock is better for the generator than
shutting off the ignition? That's the way I've been shutting mine down.

I implied that I do it once per month, but it's really more like when I
happen to be in the garden shed where the gennies live and I happen to
think of it.



--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Dad, what does "FORMATTING DRIVE C: 90% DONE" mean?"

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
Do you believe using the petcock is better for the generator than shutting
off the ignition? That's the way I've been shutting mine down.


If you shut off the fuel and let the engine die, it uses the gas out of the
carborator. If the fuel is left in, it can evaporate and leave some 'gunk'
behind. I have had to clean out my generator carborator 3 times in the
past before I started cutting off the fuel and switching to the ethanol free
gas.

On 07/21/2015 01:38 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
Do you believe using the petcock is better for the generator than shutting
off the ignition? That's the way I've been shutting mine down.


If you shut off the fuel and let the engine die, it uses the gas out of the
carborator. If the fuel is left in, it can evaporate and leave some 'gunk'
behind. I have had to clean out my generator carborator 3 times in the
past before I started cutting off the fuel and switching to the ethanol free
gas.


So then I've been doing it right.

This is a Honda generator, but a different model. It's almost 7 years
old. The manual says to stop it with the engine switch.

Later I added a propane conversion (that allows either fuel). The
instructions with that say to stop it by cutting off the fuel.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Dad, what does "FORMATTING DRIVE C: 90% DONE" mean?"

Per Mark Lloyd:
Do you believe using the petcock is better for the generator than
shutting off the ignition? That's the way I've been shutting mine down.

It empties the carb's float bowl which, when left full too long, is a
common source of problems with this particular make/model gennie as the
gasoline undergoes some sort of change while sitting and gums things up.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:34:03 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 07/20/2015 08:16 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Mark Lloyd:
Redundancy is good, although you need to run both a while every month.

I do that and, mainly for OCD reasons - but partially to help shed some
light on a recurrent phenom reported in the EU2000 forum, I keep a log
that includes the number of pulls needed to start.

Tests are more-or-less painless once one installs a petcock between fuel
pump and carb. To test: chokes on, flip the petcocks on, pull the
cords, choke off once a gennie starts, flip the petcocks off, and walk
away.

Do you believe using the petcock is better for the generator than
shutting off the ignition? That's the way I've been shutting mine down.

I implied that I do it once per month, but it's really more like when I
happen to be in the garden shed where the gennies live and I happen to
think of it.

Using the petcock runs the carburetor out of gas, reducing the
likelihood of varnish and gum buildup during storage.

On 7/21/2015 2:34 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:

Tests are more-or-less painless once one installs a petcock between fuel
pump and carb. To test: chokes on, flip the petcocks on, pull the
cords, choke off once a gennie starts, flip the petcocks off, and walk
away.

Do you believe using the petcock is better for the generator than
shutting off the ignition? That's the way I've been shutting mine down.


My two stroke ETQ says to remove the load, and shut it
off with the rocker switch. I let it run dry a couple
times, and now it's got a wicked piston rod knock.

Four stroke generators, probably OK to run em dry.
Splash lubricated, after all.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:05:34 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 7/21/2015 2:34 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:

Tests are more-or-less painless once one installs a petcock between fuel
pump and carb. To test: chokes on, flip the petcocks on, pull the
cords, choke off once a gennie starts, flip the petcocks off, and walk
away.

Do you believe using the petcock is better for the generator than
shutting off the ignition? That's the way I've been shutting mine down.


My two stroke ETQ says to remove the load, and shut it
off with the rocker switch. I let it run dry a couple
times, and now it's got a wicked piston rod knock.

Four stroke generators, probably OK to run em dry.
Splash lubricated, after all.
Cheap ones are splash lubricated. Anything that is going to last is
full pressure lubricated.. 2 strokers are lubricated by fuel and
should never be allowed to run too lean or to run out of fuel, under
load or not.

In ,
TomR typed:
In ,
TomR typed:
I live in New Jersey but this is for a friend of mine who lives in
Virginia in the suburbs near Richmond.

She lives in a 4 BR single family home in a development which (in
case it matters) is governed by a homeowners association. She seems
to have at least one or two major power outages a year due to summer
storm damage, as well as winter snow storm damage. . . . ,

Thanks again to everyone for all of the continued responses, ideas, and
comments.

One of the topic themes that came up a few times had to do with
complications about how to do the shut-downs, putting in some kind of
valves, etc. -- I think mostly related to gasoline powered generators. All
of that would be way beyond the skill level of my friend, which is one of
the reasons why I think that a gasoline powered generator wouldn't be a good
idea for her.

It looks to me like the plan will most likely end up being for her to get a
not-too-large propane powered generator and use it to power only a few
things -- such as lighting, the fridge, an electric space heater or window
A/C as needed etc. -- and skip the idea of trying to power the central A/C,
the water heater, etc. Her home is a split-level style with a back door to
goes out to the ground level in the back of the house. So, I am assuming
that she could store the propane generator inside and wheel it out the back
door when needed.

I think she would just have to deal with having smaller propane tanks on
hand and she would only be able to use the generator off and on part of the
time during an outage as needed for some lighting, a little heat, etc. In
the summer, she could probably get out to get replacement propane tanks as
needed. In the winter, during a snowstorm, not so much.

She would need a cross-over switch in the main panel to switch to generator
power. I do have a question about that. Can the cross-over switches set up
to only activate certain circuit breakers in the panel and not activate the
others? By that, I mean, could it be set up to NOT power the water heater,
maybe the central A/C, etc., but still power the lighting circuits, the
fridge circuit, etc?

Also, I assume that the propane generators come with some type of battery
powered automatic starter. Is that correct?

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 9:54:53 AM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
In ,
TomR typed:
In ,
TomR typed:
I live in New Jersey but this is for a friend of mine who lives in
Virginia in the suburbs near Richmond.

She lives in a 4 BR single family home in a development which (in
case it matters) is governed by a homeowners association. She seems
to have at least one or two major power outages a year due to summer
storm damage, as well as winter snow storm damage. . . . ,

Thanks again to everyone for all of the continued responses, ideas, and
comments.

One of the topic themes that came up a few times had to do with
complications about how to do the shut-downs, putting in some kind of
valves, etc. -- I think mostly related to gasoline powered generators. All
of that would be way beyond the skill level of my friend, which is one of
the reasons why I think that a gasoline powered generator wouldn't be a good
idea for her.

It looks to me like the plan will most likely end up being for her to get a
not-too-large propane powered generator and use it to power only a few
things -- such as lighting, the fridge, an electric space heater or window
A/C as needed etc. -- and skip the idea of trying to power the central A/C,
the water heater, etc. Her home is a split-level style with a back door to
goes out to the ground level in the back of the house. So, I am assuming
that she could store the propane generator inside and wheel it out the back
door when needed.

I think she would just have to deal with having smaller propane tanks on
hand and she would only be able to use the generator off and on part of the
time during an outage as needed for some lighting, a little heat, etc. In
the summer, she could probably get out to get replacement propane tanks as
needed. In the winter, during a snowstorm, not so much.

She would need a cross-over switch in the main panel to switch to generator
power. I do have a question about that. Can the cross-over switches set up
to only activate certain circuit breakers in the panel and not activate the
others? By that, I mean, could it be set up to NOT power the water heater,
maybe the central A/C, etc., but still power the lighting circuits, the
fridge circuit, etc?

That's the most common approach, ie to have a subpanel that has the
loads you want the generator to run and it can only run those loads.
But, I think it's nuts. It's more expensive, requires rewiring, a lot
more work, cost, etc. IMO, the best solution is a slide lock kit for
the panel together with an inlet. That way, you can power whatever
you want in the whole house. All you have to do is have a list of
what breakers to open, which to leave closed. And you can manage it
dynamically, choosing some loads now, others later. With CFL, LEDs
now, you can supply power to lights in the whole house and just turn
on the ones you want. With the subpanel approach, you're limited to
the circuits that are moved to the subpanel.


The only issue
is if a lockout kit is available for the panel. First choice would
be one from the panel manufacturer, if available. Here's an aftermarket
company:

http://www.interlockkit.com/




Also, I assume that the propane generators come with some type of battery
powered automatic starter. Is that correct?

Depends on the particular generator. Electric start is common.
I think the biggest question is the run time of a propane using
typical gas grill size tanks versus other choices, eg diesel or gas.

Per TomR:
All
of that would be way beyond the skill level of my friend, which is one of
the reasons why I think that a gasoline powered generator wouldn't be a good
idea for her.

So, I am assuming
that she could store the propane generator inside and wheel it out the back
door when needed.

First thing that comes to mind for me in that situation is death by
carbon monoxide poisoning.

I know I tend to go overboard on this kind of thinking, but I would fear
that somebody without a technical mind set might wheel the gennie out to
a position where carbon mon could infiltrate the house - or even run it
in the garage.

If that sounds far-fetched, consider the nightly news a few nights ago
where they featured a story where 4 people died and the suspected cause
was carbon mon from a generator they ran in the *basement of the house*.
http://tinyurl.com/p253pcp

So if 4 people could all buy into something that blatantly deadly, I
would think that one person could even more easily.
--
Pete Cresswell

In ,
trader_4 typed:
On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 9:54:53 AM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
In ,
TomR typed:
In ,
TomR typed:
I live in New Jersey but this is for a friend of mine who lives in
Virginia in the suburbs near Richmond.

She lives in a 4 BR single family home in a development which (in
case it matters) is governed by a homeowners association. She
seems to have at least one or two major power outages a year due
to summer storm damage, as well as winter snow storm damage. . . .
,

Thanks again to everyone for all of the continued responses, ideas,
and comments.


She would need a cross-over switch in the main panel to switch to
generator power. I do have a question about that. Can the
cross-over switches set up to only activate certain circuit breakers
in the panel and not activate the others? By that, I mean, could it
be set up to NOT power the water heater, maybe the central A/C,
etc., but still power the lighting circuits, the fridge circuit, etc?

That's the most common approach, ie to have a subpanel that has the
loads you want the generator to run and it can only run those loads.
But, I think it's nuts. It's more expensive, requires rewiring, a lot
more work, cost, etc. IMO, the best solution is a slide lock kit for
the panel together with an inlet. That way, you can power whatever
you want in the whole house. All you have to do is have a list of
what breakers to open, which to leave closed. And you can manage it
dynamically, choosing some loads now, others later.

Thanks. That's actually what I meant -- not a subpanel -- instead, a slide
lock kit for the panel together with an inlet.

And, I guess it makes sense to just have the power available to all
circuits, and turn off the breakers on any that she would not want to run
such as the cnentral HVAC, the hot water heater, etc. Although I do wonder
about the heat during the winter and how much power just the heat pump would
need if the outside temp wasn't so low that the heat pump had to switch to
the electric backup heat.

First choice would
be one from the panel manufacturer, if available. Here's an
aftermarket company:

http://www.interlockkit.com/

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:04:32 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per TomR:
All
of that would be way beyond the skill level of my friend, which is one of
the reasons why I think that a gasoline powered generator wouldn't be a good
idea for her.

So, I am assuming
that she could store the propane generator inside and wheel it out the back
door when needed.

First thing that comes to mind for me in that situation is death by
carbon monoxide poisoning.



A lot more likely with a gasoline gennie - they run propane forklifts
and zambonies inside all the time - so sitting outside is not a huge
risk.
I know I tend to go overboard on this kind of thinking, but I would fear
that somebody without a technical mind set might wheel the gennie out to
a position where carbon mon could infiltrate the house - or even run it
in the garage.

If that sounds far-fetched, consider the nightly news a few nights ago
where they featured a story where 4 people died and the suspected cause
was carbon mon from a generator they ran in the *basement of the house*.
http://tinyurl.com/p253pcp

So if 4 people could all buy into something that blatantly deadly, I
would think that one person could even more easily.

I got a conversion kit from Century Fuel Products. They been in the propane industry since the beginning.

They told me a 20 pound tank is comparable to 4.5 Gallons of gasoline.

I also need a hose for my home. They I directed me to their hose page. It shows you what you need and they are very inexpensive.

http://www.centuryfuelproducts.com/g...-the-home.html

Hope this helps.


On Friday, July 17, 2015 at 10:03:32 AM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
I live in New Jersey but this is for a friend of mine who lives in Virginia
in the suburbs near Richmond.

She lives in a 4 BR single family home in a development which (in case it
matters) is governed by a homeowners association. She seems to have at
least one or two major power outages a year due to summer storm damage, as
well as winter snow storm damage. The power outages are almost always
caused by wires down in her area from falling tree limbs etc., and her area
is almost always one of the last to get their power back on. When she has a
power outage, it is often for several days up to a week or more. Her home
is all electric -- meaning electric heat pump, electric central A/C,
electric hot water, and electric stove/oven etc. None of the homes in her
area have natural gas service, but she believes that there may be a natural
gas line that runs along the roadway behind her house. So, one possible
option may be for her to get a natural gas connection to her home from
there, and she is going to ask the natural gas utility company about that.

Due to the frequency and length of the power outages, she is considering
getting a back-up generator system installed. One option seems to be to get
a propane generator. And, I think that it may be a good idea to have it
connected by an electrician to one of those manual switch-over (cross-over?)
breaker devices in the main electric panel. Then, if there was a power
outage, she could do the switchover to the generator power and not be
without power for days on end.

Here are a few of my questions:

1) Can anyone give a rough idea of the size (wattage) propane generator that
she may need? She probably would only need some basic items powered, but I
wonder what she would need if she also wanted to be able to keep the heat
pump on in the winter and the central air on in the summer, plus some
lighting, the refrigerator/freezer, etc.

2) How long will the various size propane tanks last before needing to be
refilled? I know it depends on the tank size as well as the power rating of
the generator. However, she is retired and she probably would not have the
ability to lug around propane tanks to get them refilled, especially during
a snow storm. So, I am guessing that some type of larger tank that could be
refilled on site by a propane supply company may be a better option -- if
that is a possibility.

Any general ideas, information, or suggestions would be appreciated.

I will reply back with additional info if needed.

Thanks.