How to glue smooth vinyl to lexan, or to small steel washers, for a
short time?


I'm still working on putting in a polycarbonate (lexan) replacement for
the broken glass rear window in my convertible.

Because I'm working alone, I thought it would be good if I could "glue"
the polycarbonate or its vinyl backing sheet to the vinyl** strip (part
of the rear curtain) that the glass was bonded to originally.

**At least I think it's vinyl. It's black and shiny (where it used to
be fused to the glass) and flexible and 7/8" wide and maybe 3/16"
thick, and can be seen behind the edge, the outside 7/8" of many, most,
or all convertible rear windows. if you peek under the outside layer of
the top.

Then if they were glued together, when i drilled a hole, I would drill
through the carbonate and the vinyl at the same time, and the holes
would match.

The bond doesn't have to last more than 30 minutes if things go well.
And I can redo the bond if things go badly and take too long.

And it only has to be strong enough to hold the vinyl in place. The
way the top works, the vinyl is held up pretty much already. (Although
I may have to lower the top a bit to pull the upper fabric back from
over the border strip where the vinyl is.


Any suggestions about adhesive?


I was thinking of contact adhesive, At the url I posted in the
immediately preceding OP, someone says "[Contact bond adhesives] are
almost a "universal" general purpose cement, and will bond a variety of
substrates to one another such as wood, leather, metal, etc." Does that
include polycarbonate and vinyl????


I also wanted to use an adhesive to bond the vinyl to steel washers, so
they would stay in place while i'm outside the car. I'd put the pop
rivets in to several holes, go inside the car and push the washers up
the pop-rivet, where some kind of glue would hold them in place, until I
could go back outside and crimp the rivets. (I've done tests and know
how to use pop-rivets without breaking the lexan.)

Any suggestions here?

Here also I am thinking of contact cement. I bought a fresh bottle

The temperature tomorrow is supposed to be about 51 and Monday about 58,
but I can use a hair dryer if needed to speed contact cement or other
drying,

Thanks a lot.

On 11/8/14, 6:38 PM, micky wrote:

Any suggestions about adhesive?

Just do it.

Contact cement in a bottle used to be sold in stationery stores as
rubber cement. Brush it on both surfaces and in seconds they'll hold
together like tape. If I were doing it, I'd use a piece of tape over the
rivet and washer.

The FAQ says dew point is important. If it's high, relative humidity
will be high. I don't think the rubber cement I used to use, would cool
a surface enough to matter unless it was really humid.

Through this page, I got a link, under Observations, to weather
readings, including dew point, taken every 20 minutes at the local airport.
http://w1.weather.gov

Would double sided carpet tape work?

After you drilled your holes, you could peel the tape off of both the vinyl and the steel washers.

Double sided carpet tape has a good initial grab, and it's meant to be pulled off the floor and off the carpet backing without leaving any adhesive residue behind.

There is also double sided mounting tape for mounting mirror tiles on walls (or ceilings). Mounting tape is much less expensive because it's a smaller roll, more difficult to remove and leaves an adhesive residue behind. Mineral spirits (often called "paint thinner") will remove the glue residue from double sided mounting tape.

A third option might be to use acrylic or silicone caulk as a weak adhesive. Acetone will remove acrylic caulk and shouldn't harm PVC (vinyl) but I don't know about polycarbonate (check first). Acetone is commonly sold as nail polish remover, so you can buy a small bottle of it for a few dollars, or a gallon for about $20. Silicone caulk can be removed with mineral spirits. Dow Corning's "Silicone-Be-Gone" is nothing more than gelled mineral spirits which shouldn't harm either vinyl or polycarbonate plastic (but check first).

J Burns wrote:

Contact cement in a bottle used to be sold in stationery stores as
rubber cement. Brush it on both surfaces and in seconds they'll hold
together like tape. If I were doing it, I'd use a piece of tape over the
rivet and washer.

Rubber cement is a different animal to contact cement. It's primary use is
paste ups in the original meaning of cut and paste where you want to be able
to peel the artwork and cement off. Contact cement is for keeps.

On 11/8/2014 7:27 PM, nestork wrote:
micky;3305975 Wrote:

How to glue smooth vinyl to lexan, or to small steel washers, for a
short time?

Would double sided carpet tape work?

After you drilled your holes, you could peel the tape off of both the
vinyl and the steel washers.

Double sided carpet tape has a good initial grab, and it's meant to be
pulled off the floor and off the carpet backing without leaving any
adhesive residue behind.

There is also double sided mounting tape for mounting mirror tiles on
walls (or ceilings). Mounting tape is much less expensive because it's
a smaller roll, more difficult to remove and leaves an adhesive residue
behind. Mineral spirits (often called "paint thinner") will remove the
glue residue from double sided mounting tape.

A third option might be to use acrylic or silicone caulk as a weak
adhesive. Acetone will remove acrylic caulk and shouldn't harm PVC
(vinyl) but I don't know about polycarbonate (check first). Acetone is
commonly sold as nail polish remover, so you can buy a small bottle of
it for a few dollars, or a gallon for about $20. Silicone caulk can be
removed with mineral spirits. Dow Corning's "Silicone-Be-Gone" is
nothing more than gelled mineral spirits which shouldn't harm either
vinyl or polycarbonate plastic (but check first).




Tape sounds like a good idea. Mineral spirits should not attack vinyl
or polycarbonate but I would avoid acetone or semi-polar solvents:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VF77eU5xfg

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 19:25:22 -0500, J Burns wrote:

On 11/8/14, 6:38 PM, micky wrote:

Any suggestions about adhesive?

Just do it.

Contact cement in a bottle used to be sold in stationery stores as
rubber cement.

Is that really the same thing? I never owned my own bottle of rubber
cement. It was something children whose family splurged on things had,
but somehow I remember it being more consistant or pleasant in
appearance.

Brush it on both surfaces and in seconds they'll hold
together like tape. If I were doing it, I'd use a piece of tape over the
rivet and washer.

I was going to go back later and put something over them. Caulk, maybe.
I was going to use waxed paper to keep the stuff from sticking to or
even getting on the canvas above it. Or maybe parchment paper is
stronger and easier to pull off. I bought a roll of that because
someone told me to, but I'll never use it all.

The FAQ says dew point is important. If it's high, relative humidity
will be high. I don't think the rubber cement I used to use, would cool
a surface enough to matter unless it was really humid.

I read that too. I can't imagine contact cement causing condensation,
but I guess if I ran a factory, I'd be happy to be warned.

Through this page, I got a link, under Observations, to weather
readings, including dew point, taken every 20 minutes at the local airport.
http://w1.weather.gov

Thanks. It will take a while to peruse this. I'm sending this
paragraph to a friend, too. She really likes weather.

On 11/8/14, 8:21 PM, rbowman wrote:
J Burns wrote:

Contact cement in a bottle used to be sold in stationery stores as
rubber cement. Brush it on both surfaces and in seconds they'll hold
together like tape. If I were doing it, I'd use a piece of tape over the
rivet and washer.

Rubber cement is a different animal to contact cement. It's primary use is
paste ups in the original meaning of cut and paste where you want to be able
to peel the artwork and cement off. Contact cement is for keeps.

What's the definition of contact cement? Isn't it what will stick to
itself after drying on two surfaces? Naturally, they aren't all the same.

On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 01:27:30 +0100, nestork
wrote:


micky;3305975 Wrote:

How to glue smooth vinyl to lexan, or to small steel washers, for a
short time?

Would double sided carpet tape work?

After you drilled your holes, you could peel the tape off of both the
vinyl and the steel washers.

Double sided carpet tape has a good initial grab, and it's meant to be
pulled off the floor and off the carpet backing without leaving any
adhesive residue behind.

There is also double sided mounting tape for mounting mirror tiles on
walls (or ceilings). Mounting tape is much less expensive because it's
a smaller roll, more difficult to remove and leaves an adhesive residue
behind. Mineral spirits (often called "paint thinner") will remove the
glue residue from double sided mounting tape.

A third option might be to use acrylic or silicone caulk as a weak
adhesive. Acetone will remove acrylic caulk and shouldn't harm PVC
(vinyl) but I don't know about polycarbonate (check first). Acetone is
commonly sold as nail polish remover, so you can buy a small bottle of
it for a few dollars, or a gallon for about $20. Silicone caulk can be
removed with mineral spirits. Dow Corning's "Silicone-Be-Gone" is
nothing more than gelled mineral spirits which shouldn't harm either
vinyl or polycarbonate plastic (but check first).

You have a bunch of good ideas. I'll t hink about them tonight, and
when I wait for it to warm up a little tomorrow. I may dream about
them. :-) I have some carpet tape somewhere, I think I know where,
and I have some double-sided linoleum tape, from when I was about to buy
a new kitchen floor. and I know where that is. (It might be the same
thing but a little thinner.)

I have a bag of double-sided mounting tape scraps too. I know where
that is. And there is more at Home Depot, only a mile away.

I don't know why I thought only of glue and not about tape. Maybe
because I was 20 years old (1967) or more before they invented, or at
least I heard of, double-sided tape.

Unless the tape is pretty thick, I don't think I'd have to remove it.

A wonderful answer. I salute you and Canada.

J Burns wrote:
On 11/8/14, 8:21 PM, rbowman wrote:
J Burns wrote:

Contact cement in a bottle used to be sold in stationery stores as
rubber cement. Brush it on both surfaces and in seconds they'll
hold together like tape. If I were doing it, I'd use a piece of
tape over the rivet and washer.

Rubber cement is a different animal to contact cement. It's primary
use is paste ups in the original meaning of cut and paste where you
want to be able to peel the artwork and cement off. Contact cement
is for keeps.
What's the definition of contact cement? Isn't it what will stick to
itself after drying on two surfaces? Naturally, they aren't all the
same.

The point is that they are two totally different types of adhesive - as
bowman said . While rubber cement can be used in a permanent bond
(leatherwork comes to mind) contact cement is always permanent .

--
Snag

J Burns wrote:

What's the definition of contact cement? Isn't it what will stick to
itself after drying on two surfaces? Naturally, they aren't all the same.

Whatever you want it to be. Yes, what is sold as rubber cement and contact
cement are usually based on synthetic rubber, latex or neoprene, in a
solvent of some sort. Yes, if you put stationery store rubber cement on both
surfaces it will adhere to itself, although it's commonly just spread on one
surface. So as far as that goes it's semantics.

However if you're mounting photos in your scrapbook and you want a temporary
bond and use DAP contact cement, you will be disappointed. Similarly if
you're laminating a formica countertop and stop by Staples for a bottle of
Elmer's rubber cement you're not going to be too happy either.

On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 01:27:30 +0100, nestork
wrote:


micky;3305975 Wrote:

How to glue smooth vinyl to lexan, or to small steel washers, for a
short time?

Would double sided carpet tape work?

After you drilled your holes, you could peel the tape off of both the
vinyl and the steel washers.

Double sided carpet tape has a good initial grab, and it's meant to be
pulled off the floor and off the carpet backing without leaving any
adhesive residue behind.

There is also double sided mounting tape for mounting mirror tiles on
walls (or ceilings). Mounting tape is much less expensive because it's
a smaller roll, more difficult to remove and leaves an adhesive residue
behind. Mineral spirits (often called "paint thinner") will remove the
glue residue from double sided mounting tape.

A third option might be to use acrylic or silicone caulk as a weak
adhesive. Acetone will remove acrylic caulk and shouldn't harm PVC
(vinyl) but I don't know about polycarbonate (check first). Acetone is
commonly sold as nail polish remover, so you can buy a small bottle of
it for a few dollars, or a gallon for about $20. Silicone caulk can be
removed with mineral spirits. Dow Corning's "Silicone-Be-Gone" is
nothing more than gelled mineral spirits which shouldn't harm either
vinyl or polycarbonate plastic (but check first).

You have a bunch of good ideas. I'll t hink about them tonight, and
when I wait for it to warm up a little tomorrow. I may dream about
them. :-) I have some carpet tape somewhere, I think I know where,
and I have some double-sided linoleum tape, from when I was about to buy
a new kitchen floor. and I know where that is. (It might be the same
thing but a little thinner.)

I have a bag of double-sided mounting tape scraps too. I know where
that is. And there is more at Home Depot, only a mile away.

I don't know why I thought only of glue and not about tape. Maybe
because I was 20 years old (1967) or more before they invented, or at
least I heard of, double-sided tape.

Unless the tape is pretty thick, I don't think I'd have to remove it.

A wonderful answer. I salute you and Canada.

micky wrote:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 19:25:22 -0500, J Burns wrote:

On 11/8/14, 6:38 PM, micky wrote:

Any suggestions about adhesive?

Just do it.

Contact cement in a bottle used to be sold in stationery stores as
rubber cement.

Is that really the same thing? I never owned my own bottle of rubber
cement. It was something children whose family splurged on things had,
but somehow I remember it being more consistant or pleasant in
appearance.

See my other answer for the semantics. It all depends on what the meaning of
is is, but in common usage I guess you could say they differ in bond
strength and intended usage. Rubber cement might be what you're looking for
as a temporary low strength adhesive that's easy to remove.

Frank wrote:

Tape sounds like a good idea. Mineral spirits should not attack vinyl
or polycarbonate but I would avoid acetone or semi-polar solvents:

Acetone can cause cracking in polycarbonates. Definitely avoid methylene
chloride -- that what you use to solvent weld polycarbonate.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:50:22 -0700, rbowman wrote:

micky wrote:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 19:25:22 -0500, J Burns wrote:

On 11/8/14, 6:38 PM, micky wrote:

Any suggestions about adhesive?

Just do it.

Contact cement in a bottle used to be sold in stationery stores as
rubber cement.

Is that really the same thing? I never owned my own bottle of rubber
cement. It was something children whose family splurged on things had,
but somehow I remember it being more consistant or pleasant in
appearance.

See my other answer for the semantics. It all depends on what the meaning of
is is, but in common usage I guess you could say they differ in bond
strength and intended usage. Rubber cement might be what you're looking for
as a temporary low strength adhesive that's easy to remove.

Good point. Thanks.

On 11/8/14, 11:42 PM, rbowman wrote:
J Burns wrote:

What's the definition of contact cement? Isn't it what will stick to
itself after drying on two surfaces? Naturally, they aren't all the same.

Whatever you want it to be. Yes, what is sold as rubber cement and contact
cement are usually based on synthetic rubber, latex or neoprene, in a
solvent of some sort. Yes, if you put stationery store rubber cement on both
surfaces it will adhere to itself, although it's commonly just spread on one
surface. So as far as that goes it's semantics.

However if you're mounting photos in your scrapbook and you want a temporary
bond and use DAP contact cement, you will be disappointed. Similarly if
you're laminating a formica countertop and stop by Staples for a bottle of
Elmer's rubber cement you're not going to be too happy either.


I don't know what's in the bottle Micky bought, but he didn't say he was
laminating a formica countertop. He wants it to hold vinyl in place
long enough to drill holes and crimp rivets. Rubber cement sounds ideal.

If he bought some other kind of contact cement, it would be applied in
the same way except maybe for drying time. He wants to be able to undo
it if things go wrong. Rubber cement sounds just right.

Frank mentioned something that hadn't occurred to me, that some solvents
in some cements damage polycarbonate.

On 11/8/14, 11:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
micky wrote:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 19:25:22 -0500, J Burns wrote:

On 11/8/14, 6:38 PM, micky wrote:

Any suggestions about adhesive?

Just do it.

Contact cement in a bottle used to be sold in stationery stores as
rubber cement.

Is that really the same thing? I never owned my own bottle of rubber
cement. It was something children whose family splurged on things had,
but somehow I remember it being more consistant or pleasant in
appearance.

See my other answer for the semantics. It all depends on what the meaning of
is is, but in common usage I guess you could say they differ in bond
strength and intended usage. Rubber cement might be what you're looking for
as a temporary low strength adhesive that's easy to remove.

Don't the cements for countertops use natural rubber and neoprene?

Slime rubber cement has a different intended usage and apparently a
higher bond strength than Elmer's.

J Burns wrote:

Don't the cements for countertops use natural rubber and neoprene?

Yes. Like I said, it's not chemistry but the different characteristics of
the products referred to as 'rubber' or 'contact' cement. Beer and Everclear
are both alcohol; are they the same or different?

Slime rubber cement has a different intended usage and apparently a
higher bond strength than Elmer's.

For patching tubes? Now you're getting into cold vulcanizing rubber cement.
I believe there is some polymerization involved with those. Same basic stuff
but there are horses for courses. Try to use Elmer's on your bicycle tube
and it won't last long. The patch will peel away, and if you rub the cement
area it will roll away in little balls. DAP contact cement isn't much
better.

I never tried using tube cement as a general purpose contact cement but I
don't think that would work well either.

J Burns wrote:

If he bought some other kind of contact cement, it would be applied in
the same way except maybe for drying time. He wants to be able to undo
it if things go wrong. Rubber cement sounds just right.

Yeah, in this case Elmer's rubber cement from Staples probably will work
great.


Frank mentioned something that hadn't occurred to me, that some solvents
in some cements damage polycarbonate.

Polycarbonate is more resistant than the acrylics (plexiglas) but acetone,
which shows up in a lot of places, is a problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VF77eU5xfg

It's a strange interaction where stress and a little acetone don't mix.
Methylene chloride is used for solvent welding PC so it should be avoided.

http://elmers.com/docs/default-sourc...-sheets/me904-
htm.htm?Status=Master&sfvrsn=0

Elmers is mostly heptane with a little isopro.

http://www.styron.com/scripts/litord...1.pdf&pdf=true

shows good resistance to hexane and fair to iso, so it shouldn't be a
problem.


www.dap.com/docs/msds/00030503_english.pdf

On the other hand, Weldwood contact cement's vehicle is primarily toluene
with a dask of MEK for spice, both of which are listed as poor resistance.