I have a wartime house and at some point the cement foundation blocks that
are above ground were painted. I have owned the house for 16 years, so it
was at least 17 years ago, but probably more like 25. I bought the house
from a couple in their late 80's and the living room wallpaper was a scene
of a golf course (circa 1960 something).
Anyway, the paint is starting to peel and chip from the cold and snow.
Should I paint it again and if so with what kind of paint?

--

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 03:44:02 +0000, Lili Marlene
wrote:

I have a wartime house and at some point the cement foundation blocks that
are above ground were painted. I have owned the house for 16 years, so it
was at least 17 years ago, but probably more like 25. I bought the house
from a couple in their late 80's and the living room wallpaper was a scene
of a golf course (circa 1960 something).
Anyway, the paint is starting to peel and chip from the cold and snow.
Should I paint it again and if so with what kind of paint?

Of course you should paint again unless you don't mind the appearance
of peeling paint. Like any material, it should be prepped by scraping
or wire brushing the loose stuff.

There are plenty of exterior latex paints available. Your local paint
store can advise you as to the different quality paints they carry.
Better paints cover better and last longer.

On 08/11/2014 04:49 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 03:44:02 +0000, Lili Marlene
wrote:

I have a wartime house and at some point the cement foundation blocks that
are above ground were painted. I have owned the house for 16 years, so it
was at least 17 years ago, but probably more like 25. I bought the house
from a couple in their late 80's and the living room wallpaper was a scene
of a golf course (circa 1960 something).
Anyway, the paint is starting to peel and chip from the cold and snow.
Should I paint it again and if so with what kind of paint?

Of course you should paint again unless you don't mind the appearance
of peeling paint. Like any material, it should be prepped by scraping
or wire brushing the loose stuff.

There are plenty of exterior latex paints available. Your local paint
store can advise you as to the different quality paints they carry.
Better paints cover better and last longer.



Yep, I did some out door painting 12 years ago with a very high quality
paint and it's holding up well. I think it was $38 a gallon, but worth it.

The only precaution would be that the old paint may very well be lead
based and it would not be good to have a vegetable garden growing next
to it.

On 8/11/2014 8:15 AM, philo wrote:
On 08/11/2014 04:49 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 03:44:02 +0000, Lili Marlene
wrote:

I have a wartime house and at some point the cement foundation blocks
that
are above ground were painted. I have owned the house for 16 years,
so it
was at least 17 years ago, but probably more like 25. I bought the house
from a couple in their late 80's and the living room wallpaper was a
scene
of a golf course (circa 1960 something).
Anyway, the paint is starting to peel and chip from the cold and snow.
Should I paint it again and if so with what kind of paint?

Of course you should paint again unless you don't mind the appearance
of peeling paint. Like any material, it should be prepped by scraping
or wire brushing the loose stuff.

There are plenty of exterior latex paints available. Your local paint
store can advise you as to the different quality paints they carry.
Better paints cover better and last longer.



Yep, I did some out door painting 12 years ago with a very high quality
paint and it's holding up well. I think it was $38 a gallon, but worth it.

The only precaution would be that the old paint may very well be lead
based and it would not be good to have a vegetable garden growing next
to it.

We had ours done and no peeling after 3 years. Paint for that purpose
bought at HB by contractor.

| Anyway, the paint is starting to peel and chip from the cold and snow.
| Should I paint it again and if so with what kind of paint?
|

It's up to you. If you paint it you'll need to scrape
the loose paint and then it's a good idea to wash it
with a weak solution of TSP in hot water. (Maybe
1 tsp to a alf gallon.) For the paint I would use water
base "stain". Unlike most paints, it doesn't produce a
film, so it doesn't peel. It just wears off. But despite being
called stain it is an opaque paint.
It's easy to slap on another coat with stain, and
eventually you'll have no paint left to peel as the
old paint gradually comes off. One can even add water
to the stain to create a sort of primer, or soak the wall
first to make the stain soak in, but that shouldn't
be necessary.

I really like Pratt and Lambert stain, but lately I
can't get P&L. I don't know if it's being discontinued,
but the dealers near me have discontinued it.
Sherwin Williams owns P&L and their paint is pretty
good, though I haven't tried their exterior acrylic/latex
stain. Benjamin Moore is popular in my area, but their
products have been getting downgraded and often
changed in recent years. I'm not wild about their
water-base exterior stain. But any of those options
should be better than getting a Home Depot product.

If you use an enamel (a paint with a film) it tends
to peel because moisture migrates through the concrete.
For the same reason, concrete outside should never be
painted with oil paint. Likewise with asbestos or concrete
siding. They need to breathe.

Normally, the kind of paint you would use to paint concrete blocks is called a "block filler". Some block fillers call themselves block filler "primers" and others call themselves block filler "paints". The difference is that primers will always be white and won't have space in the container for tinting whereas paints will have room for adding colourant to the container before shaking. Block fillers are quite thick and dry rapidly so they fill in the surface roughness of the blocks, making the block surface smoother, easier to repaint next time and more attractive to look at.

In any case, you need to remove any paint that's not putting up a respectable fight to stay on the blocks. You might want to consider renting a pressure washer to prep the concrete blocks for repainting by removing any old paint that isn't sticking well.

If your blocks were simply painted with an ordinary latex, it would be good to use a block filler paint now over what you have.

If the blocks were originally painted with an oil based paint, then I'd be inclined to use an oil based primer over the existing paint, and then use a block filler paint over everything. Note that since you're painting over paint on concrete, you don't have to be concerned that the primer won't stretch and shrink as it needs to if you were applying it over wood, so it's not necessary to use an EXTERIOR oil based primer. An interior oil based primer will do just as well here. But, if you do use an interior oil based primer, be sure to top coat it with paint within a few weeks after priming. That's because interior primers won't have the UV protection that exterior ones have, and will be more susceptible to deterioration from exposure to the Sun.

If your blocks have already been painted with a latex block filler paint, then you can just paint over what you have with any good quality exterior latex paint.

http://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/in...I1828437?Num=0

On 8/11/2014 8:15 AM, philo wrote:


The only precaution would be that the old paint may very well be lead
based and it would not be good to have a vegetable garden growing next
to it.


Good point, given the age of the house. If you scrape it would be good
to wear a dust mask or other protection, just in case. Once covered, it
is safe though.

No.

You see, back in the 1950's and early 1960's, the only paints that were commonly available were the old linseed oil based paints.

Cleaning those paints with TSP had the unique advantage of "etching" the gloss of drying oil based paints so that the new paint would stick better. So, the advantage in cleaning old paint with TSP is that it fully prepped the wall for the new paint to adhere well.

But, the problem with paint is that it's the least well understood technology in the entire home center. As latex paints become more and more common, no one informed the supposed paint "experts" that TSP did absolutely nothing to the plastics that latex paints were made of, and they kept telling people to wash walls with TSP prior to painting them; even if those walls were painted with latex paint. The danger here is that most people's reasoning is that if a weak solution of TSP will get the wall clean, then a strong solution of TSP will get even cleaner, and therein lies the danger. If TSP is not completely removed prior to painting, it dries to form a powdery residue on the wall. The new paint will stick to the powdery residue, but the powdery residue won't stick to the wall, and the result will be the new paint peeling off.

This paint on the OP's foundation walls may be old linseed oil paint, but if it's not, then it would be better for the OP to clean the paint with a good detergent, like Mr. Clean or Fantastik rather than TSP. At least, then, she'd be using a decent cleaner, which TSP isn't.



PS: That word "enamel" is something paint companies toss around because there is no well recognized definition of what an "enamel" paint actually is.

The first "enamel" paints were almost certainly cans of varnish or alkyd based polyurethane that were tinted in paint tinting machines just like an deep or accent tint base for a paint. Years ago, varnish and polyurethane only came in semi-gloss and high gloss, but they contained a lot more resins (called "copals") than paints and the addition of copals to the drying oil make it dry to a harder film. So, with the tinted varnish drying to a higher gloss and harder film, the word "enamel" came to mean a paint that would dry harder and glossier than a normal paint would be expected to.

But, because of improvements in paint binder chemistry and paint rheology additives, EVERY paint sold today dries to a harder and smoother film than the same paint of 10 or 20 years ago did. So, using that reasoning, EVERY paint can be called an "enamel", and some companies, notably Behr, have stooped to the point of calling every paint they make, save for their dead flat latex paints, an "Enamel". Behr, for example, makes a Interior Eggshell "Enamel", as opposed to an Interior Eggshell "Paint".

When you see the word "enamel" used in that context, it simply means "Hey you! Yeah, you. Buy me!" The word "enamel" on a can of paint makes about as much difference as a racing stripe does on a car. It's a ploy used by paint companies to get a public that is hugely ignorant about paint to buy their paint instead of anyone else's. People figure that an "enamel" is a paint that dries to a harder and smoother film than an ordinary paint, so they choose to buy a can with that word "enamel" on it than a can that calls itself "paint".

You can have fun with this. Since the people working in paint stores are often just as ignorant about paint as the people shopping in paint stores, ask the sales clerk or store manager how to tell if it's really an "enamel" and not just an ordinary latex paint.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 09:21:54 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Anyway, the paint is starting to peel and chip from the cold and snow.
| Should I paint it again and if so with what kind of paint?
|

It's up to you. If you paint it you'll need to scrape
the loose paint and then it's a good idea to wash it
with a weak solution of TSP in hot water. (Maybe
1 tsp to a alf gallon.) For the paint I would use water
base "stain". Unlike most paints, it doesn't produce a
film, so it doesn't peel. It just wears off. But despite being
called stain it is an opaque paint.
It's easy to slap on another coat with stain, and
eventually you'll have no paint left to peel as the
old paint gradually comes off. One can even add water
to the stain to create a sort of primer, or soak the wall
first to make the stain soak in, but that shouldn't
be necessary.

I really like Pratt and Lambert stain, but lately I
can't get P&L. I don't know if it's being discontinued,
but the dealers near me have discontinued it.
Sherwin Williams owns P&L and their paint is pretty
good, though I haven't tried their exterior acrylic/latex
stain. Benjamin Moore is popular in my area, but their
products have been getting downgraded and often
changed in recent years. I'm not wild about their
water-base exterior stain. But any of those options
should be better than getting a Home Depot product.

If you use an enamel (a paint with a film) it tends
to peel because moisture migrates through the concrete.
For the same reason, concrete outside should never be
painted with oil paint. Likewise with asbestos or concrete
siding. They need to breathe.

What aboput a portland cement based concrete paint?? Like Porters
Boncote.(not sure if it's available state-side -was the best you could
buy for painting stucco in Africa) Personally, I'd remove all the
paint with a pressure washer and dig down a few inches - clean it real
well - mabee even a light acid wash, and parge it -if you want colour,
add pigment to the parge .

| but if it's not, then it would be better for the OP to clean the paint
| with a good detergent, like Mr. Clean or Fantastik rather than TSP. At
| least, then, she'd be using a decent cleaner, which TSP isn't.
|

TSP is a very good cleaner and doesn't leave a soap
residue. I've used it for 30 years. not just for oil paint.
It's great for getting off grime on woodwork.

|
| PS: That word "enamel" is something paint companies toss around because
| there is no well recognized definition of what an "enamel" paint
| actually is.
|

Enamel indicates a paint that dries with a
film, as opposed to a suspension.

| So, using
| that reasoning, EVERY paint can be called an "enamel", and some

I was using the word enamel to distinguish from a
water-base stain, which is not an enamel.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 19:51:12 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| but if it's not, then it would be better for the OP to clean the paint
| with a good detergent, like Mr. Clean or Fantastik rather than TSP. At
| least, then, she'd be using a decent cleaner, which TSP isn't.
|

TSP is a very good cleaner and doesn't leave a soap
residue. I've used it for 30 years. not just for oil paint.
It's great for getting off grime on woodwork.

|
| PS: That word "enamel" is something paint companies toss around because
| there is no well recognized definition of what an "enamel" paint
| actually is.
|

Enamel indicates a paint that dries with a
film, as opposed to a suspension.

| So, using
| that reasoning, EVERY paint can be called an "enamel", and some

I was using the word enamel to distinguish from a
water-base stain, which is not an enamel.

Excellent degraser but don't use it too string - it can remove some
paints.

On 8/10/2014 11:44 PM, Lili Marlene wrote:
I have a wartime house and at some point the cement foundation blocks that
are above ground were painted. I have owned the house for 16 years, so it
was at least 17 years ago, but probably more like 25. I bought the house
from a couple in their late 80's and the living room wallpaper was a scene
of a golf course (circa 1960 something). Anyway, the paint is starting
to peel and chip from the cold and snow.
Should I paint it again and if so with what kind of paint?


When our Florida condo was painted, the contractor used acryllic latex
paint, which is standard for masonry. The pressure washed below grade
about six or eight inches so as mortar absorbed moisture beneath the new
paint coat, it would be buried and not show peeling. They applied a
bleach solution prior to p.w., which didn't make a lot of sense, but the
job turned out wonderfully and lasted. For hairline cracks, they used a
brushable caulk, then one coat primer and one coat paint. They had rec.
two coats paint, but condo went for lower cost and the results could not
have been better. The previous paint job was poorly done, with loads of
mildew (no prep) under the peeling paint.

On 8/11/2014 9:44 AM, nestork wrote:
Normally, the kind of paint you would use to paint concrete blocks is
called a "block filler". Some block fillers call themselves block
filler "primers" and others call themselves block filler "paints". The
difference is that primers will always be white and won't have space in
the container for tinting whereas paints will have room for adding
colourant to the container before shaking. Block fillers are quite
thick and dry rapidly so they fill in the surface roughness of the
blocks, making the block surface smoother, easier to repaint next time
and more attractive to look at.

In any case, you need to remove any paint that's not putting up a
respectable fight to stay on the blocks. You might want to consider
renting a pressure washer to prep the concrete blocks for repainting by
removing any old paint that isn't sticking well.

If your blocks were simply painted with an ordinary latex, it would be
good to use a block filler paint now over what you have.

If the blocks were originally painted with an oil based paint, then I'd
be inclined to use an oil based primer over the existing paint, and then

Pressure wash the loose paint off, then prime and paint with acryllic base.

use a block filler paint over everything. Note that since you're
painting over paint on concrete, you don't have to be concerned that the
primer won't stretch and shrink as it needs to if you were applying it
over wood, so it's not necessary to use an EXTERIOR oil based primer.

I doubt that any paint company would recommend using alkyd paint on
mortar....acryllic/latex allows movement of moisture through the paint
film, which alkyd does not and why alkyd will BLISTER AND PEEL.
An interior oil based primer will do just as well here. But, if you do
use an interior oil based primer, be sure to top coat it with paint
within a few weeks after priming.

For exterior, normal rec. is to paint within a week or less after priming.

That's because interior primers won't
have the UV protection that exterior ones have, and will be more
susceptible to deterioration from exposure to the Sun.

If your blocks have already been painted with a latex block filler
paint, then you can just paint over what you have with any good quality
exterior latex paint.

http://tinyurl.com/qd3chx3

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 21:37:24 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

On 8/10/2014 11:44 PM, Lili Marlene wrote:
I have a wartime house and at some point the cement foundation blocks that
are above ground were painted. I have owned the house for 16 years, so it
was at least 17 years ago, but probably more like 25. I bought the house
from a couple in their late 80's and the living room wallpaper was a scene
of a golf course (circa 1960 something). Anyway, the paint is starting
to peel and chip from the cold and snow.
Should I paint it again and if so with what kind of paint?


When our Florida condo was painted, the contractor used acryllic latex
paint, which is standard for masonry. The pressure washed below grade
about six or eight inches so as mortar absorbed moisture beneath the new
paint coat, it would be buried and not show peeling. They applied a
bleach solution prior to p.w., which didn't make a lot of sense, but the
job turned out wonderfully and lasted. For hairline cracks, they used a
brushable caulk, then one coat primer and one coat paint. They had rec.
two coats paint, but condo went for lower cost and the results could not
have been better. The previous paint job was poorly done, with loads of
mildew (no prep) under the peeling paint.
That's what the bleach is for. Get rid of any organics that would
prevent the paint from sticking.

I used a wire brush on a electric drill to remove loose paint on my moms house before I sold it. I drive by that home the paint looks great after at least 10 years...

Pressure wash is the best way to go to remove all the loose old paint. Go at the paint from several different angles to get the maximum effect.

On 8/11/2014 12:53 PM, nestork wrote:

Mayayana;3270471 Wrote:

... and then it's a good idea to wash it
with a weak solution of TSP in hot water. (Maybe
1 tsp to a alf gallon.)

No.

You see, back in the 1950's and early 1960's, the only paints that were
commonly available were the old linseed oil based paints.

Where did you get the idea it was painted in the 50's or 60's?

On 8/11/2014 9:21 AM, Mayayana wrote:
| Anyway, the paint is starting to peel and chip from the cold and snow.
| Should I paint it again and if so with what kind of paint?
|

It's up to you. If you paint it you'll need to scrape
the loose paint and then it's a good idea to wash it
with a weak solution of TSP in hot water. (Maybe
1 tsp to a alf gallon.) For the paint I would use water
base "stain". Unlike most paints, it doesn't produce a
film, so it doesn't peel. It just wears off. But despite being
called stain it is an opaque paint.
It's easy to slap on another coat with stain, and
eventually you'll have no paint left to peel as the
old paint gradually comes off. One can even add water
to the stain to create a sort of primer, or soak the wall
first to make the stain soak in, but that shouldn't
be necessary.

I really like Pratt and Lambert stain, but lately I
can't get P&L. I don't know if it's being discontinued,
but the dealers near me have discontinued it.
Sherwin Williams owns P&L and their paint is pretty
good, though I haven't tried their exterior acrylic/latex
stain. Benjamin Moore is popular in my area, but their
products have been getting downgraded and often
changed in recent years. I'm not wild about their
water-base exterior stain. But any of those options
should be better than getting a Home Depot product.

If you use an enamel (a paint with a film) it tends
to peel because moisture migrates through the concrete.
For the same reason, concrete outside should never be
painted with oil paint. Likewise with asbestos or concrete
siding. They need to breathe.


Try H & C stains. Our SW stores carry it.
http://www.hcconcrete.com

I'm not saying the OP's concrete blocks were painted in the 50's or 60's.

I'm saying that the practice of cleaning walls with TSP was good advice back in the 50's and 60's when it could be reasonably well assumed that the paint on every wall was a linseed oil based paint. TSP would etch the gloss of drying oils like linseed oil, Tung oil and real varnishes so that a new coat of paint or varnish would adhere better.

The problem is that paint is the least well understood technology in the entire Home Depot store. So, even though paint technology has changed immensely over the past 50 years, people's knowledge of paint hasn't kept up with those changes, so you still find that same advice to clean with TSP being given today.

Don't get me wrong. If someone is wanting to paint over an old linseed oil based paint, then the advice to clean with TSP first is good advice.

But, if they're wanting to paint over anything else, like an alkyd paint, a polyurethane paint or a latex paint, then cleaning with TSP won't etch the gloss of the paint. In fact, it won't do anything at all to the old paint. In that case, the person would be better off using a good quality detergent like Mr. Clean or Fantastik to clean with. That way they'll be removing both dirt that's soluble in water as well as oily dirt that can be emulsified by the detergent, like cooking oil if the person is painting a kitchen ceiling, or fingerprints around light switches and on the walls near the front and back entrances.

It's this misunderstanding about TSP that creates misinformation about it. People reason that if the advice is to clean with TSP, there has to be a good reason to do it, and so they make up reasons that make sense to them. Some people say TSP is a good "degreaser", which is total misinformation. I once tried cleaning an old greasy stove with TSP and it didn't do anything at all to the grease. It's that logic that there HAS TO BE a reason to clean with TSP that creates misinformation about what TSP does. Everything becomes clear once one realizes that there is no reason to clean with TSP unless one is cleaning a drying oil film like linseed oil based paint, Tung Oil or real varnishes before repainting or revarnishing.

| Some people say TSP is a good "degreaser", which is total
| misinformation.

You seem to have very strong feelings
about TSP, for some reason. It may not be fair to
blame it for all past misconceptions that anyone
has had.

It's not a degreaser, but it will dissolve oils, like
skin oil left on woodwork, which can inhibit paint
bonding. It's mainly a very good surfactant that
will easily wipe away the black grime that collects
on woodwork over time. TSP was used at one time
in laundry detergent.

The purpose is not to "etch" the old finish.
The purpose is to clean residues off painted surfaces
without leaving a soap film. But cleaning with TSP
requires hot water. Maybe you've used it with cold
water or lukewarm water? If you use it with very hot
water (and you should wear gloves because it's a
strong alkali) it's a very aggressive cleaner.

If I couldn't get TSP for paint prep I'd use non-sudsing
ammonia. I *would not* use anything like Mr. Clean that
sudses.

Scrape and wire brush any loose paint. Wash any areas to be painted
with a detergent. I've used laundry detergent with a scrub brush on a
short pole. It works as well as anything else. The brush on the pole
saves a lot of bending. Rinse with a hose. After drying, spot prime
any bare areas with a solid coat of an exterior rated acrylic primer.
Top coat with a quality exterior paint in the finish of your choice.
My preference is flat or low luster.
HTH

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 03:44:02 +0000, Lili Marlene
wrote:

I have a wartime house and at some point the cement foundation blocks that
are above ground were painted. I have owned the house for 16 years, so it
was at least 17 years ago, but probably more like 25. I bought the house
from a couple in their late 80's and the living room wallpaper was a scene
of a golf course (circa 1960 something).
Anyway, the paint is starting to peel and chip from the cold and snow.
Should I paint it again and if so with what kind of paint?