"Brian Martin and his wife, Donna, were not at home when the
ammunition round hit their home. They said they were picking up pieces
of shrapnel all day.

“(There are) holes in my roof that you could fit a coffee cup in,”
Brian Martin said.

Martin said about half of the trees’ bases were disintegrated in the
blast. The damage makes the couple question how safe things are."

Video:

https://tinyurl.com/nprprpq

http://www.4029tv.com/news/arkansas-national-guard-training-unit-fires-round-offpost-from-fort-chaffee/26368918?_escaped_fragment_=WzG8q#!WzG8q

IIRC a 155mm round weighs about 95 pounds (~14.6 pounds of TNT). A
direct hit would likely have flattened that house, for sure.

On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 09:23:33 -0700, Oren wrote:

"Brian Martin and his wife, Donna, were not at home when the
ammunition round hit their home. They said they were picking up pieces
of shrapnel all day.

€œ(There are) holes in my roof that you could fit a coffee cup in,€�
Brian Martin said.

Martin said about half of the trees bases were disintegrated in the
blast. The damage makes the couple question how safe things are."

Video:

https://tinyurl.com/nprprpq

http://www.4029tv.com/news/arkansas-national-guard-training-unit-fires-round-offpost-from-fort-chaffee/26368918?_escaped_fragment_=WzG8q#!WzG8q

IIRC a 155mm round weighs about 95 pounds (~14.6 pounds of TNT). A
direct hit would likely have flattened that house, for sure.

The military base will probably miss a great opportunity for good civilian
relations. They should have their grunts show up to help with the
renovations, cleanup, etc. Even base commander come out to 'inspect' the
damages and carry off some type of repair work. Not just have the military
pay for damages but show up take that 'personal' interest. Go a long way
toward good will.

RobertMacy wrote:
The military base will probably miss a great opportunity for good
civilian relations. They should have their grunts show up to help
with the renovations, cleanup, etc. Even base commander come out to
'inspect' the damages and carry off some type of repair work. Not
just have the military pay for damages but show up take that
'personal' interest. Go a long way toward good will.

They'd better have some good references for their work before they try that one.

On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 09:51:51 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:


The military base will probably miss a great opportunity for good civilian
relations. They should have their grunts show up to help with the
renovations, cleanup, etc. Even base commander come out to 'inspect' the
damages and carry off some type of repair work. Not just have the military
pay for damages but show up take that 'personal' interest. Go a long way
toward good will.

Another report seemed to suggest the military may not pay. They
better

Also what is not clear is if this was a time-delay air burst fuse or a
PD (point detonating) fuse. I'd think the news would show a crater if
the round hit the ground vs an air burst.
--
"Dumb is local...As soon as you go 15 miles away from your dumbness, you see how dumb you are." -- Sherrod Small

RobertMacy posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP



The military base will probably miss a great opportunity for good civilian
relations. They should have their grunts show up to help with the
renovations, cleanup, etc. Even base commander come out to 'inspect' the
damages and carry off some type of repair work. Not just have the military
pay for damages but show up take that 'personal' interest. Go a long way
toward good will.

You mean take responsibility? HAH

--
Tekkie

On 6/9/14, 9:18 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 10:03:55 -0700, Oren wrote:

Also what is not clear is if this was a time-delay air burst fuse or a
PD (point detonating) fuse. I'd think the news would show a crater if
the round hit the ground vs an air burst.

Had to be an air burst and it may not even been a regular HE or frag
round.
I agree, not enough damage unless this thing was a couple hundred
yards away when it went off.

The story said it hit near the house and destroyed several trees.

First Battalion, 129th Field Artillery, Harry Truman's battalion. He
had trouble finding civilian employment because he couldn't see, so they
put him in artillery.

I might have known they'd be from Missouri, where it's illegal to fire
somebody for being a boozer. It's also legal to drink while driving and
to serve alcohol to minors. It's legal for a minor to drink on the
street as long as he has a cup instead of drinking from the bottle.
It's illegal for any municipality to restrict the rights of drinkers.

The base commander ordered them to stop training. I think they need a
lot more training. Maybe he wants them to continue their training in
Missouri, where there rights will be protected.

On 6/9/2014 8:46 PM, J Burns wrote:
On 6/9/14, 9:18 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 10:03:55 -0700, Oren wrote:

Also what is not clear is if this was a time-delay air burst fuse or a
PD (point detonating) fuse. I'd think the news would show a crater if
the round hit the ground vs an air burst.

Had to be an air burst and it may not even been a regular HE or frag
round.
I agree, not enough damage unless this thing was a couple hundred
yards away when it went off.

The story said it hit near the house and destroyed several trees.

First Battalion, 129th Field Artillery, Harry Truman's battalion. He
had trouble finding civilian employment because he couldn't see, so they
put him in artillery.

I might have known they'd be from Missouri, where it's illegal to fire
somebody for being a boozer. It's also legal to drink while driving and
to serve alcohol to minors. It's legal for a minor to drink on the
street as long as he has a cup instead of drinking from the bottle. It's
illegal for any municipality to restrict the rights of drinkers.

The base commander ordered them to stop training. I think they need a
lot more training. Maybe he wants them to continue their training in
Missouri, where there rights will be protected.

Although Missouri alcohol laws are some of the least restrictive in the
United States you CANNOT drive while driving! The passengers can drink
but the driver CANNOT. I also doubt if what you stated about minors
drinking on the street is true.

On 6/9/14, 11:19 PM, IGot2P wrote:
On 6/9/2014 8:46 PM, J Burns wrote:
On 6/9/14, 9:18 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 10:03:55 -0700, Oren wrote:

Also what is not clear is if this was a time-delay air burst fuse or a
PD (point detonating) fuse. I'd think the news would show a crater if
the round hit the ground vs an air burst.

Had to be an air burst and it may not even been a regular HE or frag
round.
I agree, not enough damage unless this thing was a couple hundred
yards away when it went off.

The story said it hit near the house and destroyed several trees.

First Battalion, 129th Field Artillery, Harry Truman's battalion. He
had trouble finding civilian employment because he couldn't see, so they
put him in artillery.

I might have known they'd be from Missouri, where it's illegal to fire
somebody for being a boozer. It's also legal to drink while driving and
to serve alcohol to minors. It's legal for a minor to drink on the
street as long as he has a cup instead of drinking from the bottle. It's
illegal for any municipality to restrict the rights of drinkers.

The base commander ordered them to stop training. I think they need a
lot more training. Maybe he wants them to continue their training in
Missouri, where there rights will be protected.

Although Missouri alcohol laws are some of the least restrictive in the
United States you CANNOT drive while driving! The passengers can drink
but the driver CANNOT. I also doubt if what you stated about minors
drinking on the street is true.

I'm glad I checked with you before going to Missouri to drink and drive.

In the Power and Light District, a minor can drink alcohol from a cup on
the street. Adults can drink from the bottle.

In article ,
IGot2P wrote:

Although Missouri alcohol laws are some of the least restrictive in the
United States you CANNOT drive while driving! The passengers can drink

Yeah, that does sound pretty restrictive.

m

On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 22:37:43 -0700, Todd wrote:

What kind of round did you use for target practice?
What kind of a mess would a practice round have made
of a house?

Seems that if the round had explosives in it, it would
have flattened the place. Yikes!

Shucks, I don't recall practice rounds. Been many years ago. The
video of the house showed plenty of shrapnel; not a "flash and smoke
signature"?

_Ammunition for Artillery 155 mm DM 58 Practice Projectile_

"The DM 58 practice projectile is derived from the recycled case of
the DM 21, equipped with a centrally positioned marker charge. In the
interests of realistic training, the projectile produces a flash and
smoke signature comparable to the live HE round, but much less noise
and ground erosion.

Compared with other training projectiles, its maximum effective range
is considerably shorter. The danger zone is significantly reduced
compared with other practise rounds. For these reasons it offers
significant advantages in the training environment.

When it comes to ballistics, DM 58 HE is identical to the 155 mm DM 21
HE round, and can be fired from the L39 gun; moreover, it can be fired
from the L52 using a smaller propelling charge."

http://www.engineerdir.com/product/catalog/13132/index1.html

Oren wrote:
"Brian Martin and his wife, Donna, were not at home when the
ammunition round hit their home. They said they were picking up pieces
of shrapnel all day.

“(There are) holes in my roof that you could fit a coffee cup in,”
Brian Martin said.

Martin said about half of the trees’ bases were disintegrated in the
blast. The damage makes the couple question how safe things are."

Video:

https://tinyurl.com/nprprpq

http://www.4029tv.com/news/arkansas-national-guard-training-unit-fires-round-offpost-from-fort-chaffee/26368918?_escaped_fragment_=WzG8q#!WzG8q

IIRC a 155mm round weighs about 95 pounds (~14.6 pounds of TNT). A
direct hit would likely have flattened that house, for sure.

Hmm,
155mm round hit and house is still standing? It should be a pile of
rubbles. Usually two men carry the round on a tray to load the round
and sacks of gun power. They must live near a firing range. Old rounds
are known to fall short of target. Happened when I served in the ROKA
artillery unit. On annual routine field training exercise it happened
and injured quite a few forward infantry men. That infantry battalion
CO. was so mad at our Battalion CO calling all the name..... We returned
remaining rounds back to logistics unit to dispose of them.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:24:44 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Let us recap

155mm round hit and house is still standing?

A 155mm round exploded, put holes in the roof, holes in the red brick
and devastated trees with shrapnel. To me it suggests an air burst
(time delay fuse) round and not a direct hit with 14.6 pounds of TNT
using a PD (point detonating) fuse in a direct hit. The house would be
flat on a direct hit with a PD fuse.

It should be a pile of rubbles.

Not unless it was a direct hit with the 14.6 pounds of TNT on a direct
hit and not an air burst round.

Usually two men carry the round on a tray to load the round and sacks of gun power.

A 155mm projectile weighs ~95 pound, less than a large bag cement.
I've tossed hundreds of projectiles in the bed of a 2½ ton, 3 axle
truck - "deuce and a half." Sure the round is rammed in the tube on a
tray.

They must live near a firing range.

Probably. At least within 23 miles for a 155mm

Old rounds are known to fall short of target.

The projectile will fall short if the powder bags get wet or not
enough powder bags are put in the breach. Same if the tube elevation
is wrong. A round can stick in the tube if the primer fails to ignite
the powder correctly - the wrong fuse at the wrong time can blow the
tube up.

Happened when I served in the ROKAartillery unit. On annual routine field training
exercise it happened and injured quite a few forward infantry men.

A forward observer is subject to harm, for sure. Especially before
Howitzer computerization. Human error on the gun.

That infantry battalion CO. was so mad at our Battalion CO calling all the name.....
We returned remaining rounds back to logistics unit to dispose of them.

I've seen a breach explosion from a distance. You damn sure don't
want burning rubber gasket attached to your face. We raised hell with
our CO, telling him exactly what we thought, as did others, on other
guns.

M109 SP ( look to see the round leaving the tube )

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Artillery_Corps_Fires_Practice_Cannon3.jpg

J Burns posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

It's legal for a minor to drink on the
street as long as he has a cup instead of drinking from the bottle


Is it the mandatory red Solo cup?

--
Tekkie

Oren posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

but much less noise
and ground erosion.



I am sure this to keep the EPA happy. Heaven knows we don't don't want any
erosion, except of our rights - that's ok.

--
Tekkie

posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 07:31:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 22:37:43 -0700, Todd wrote:

What kind of round did you use for target practice?
What kind of a mess would a practice round have made
of a house?

Seems that if the round had explosives in it, it would
have flattened the place. Yikes!

Shucks, I don't recall practice rounds. Been many years ago. The
video of the house showed plenty of shrapnel; not a "flash and smoke
signature"?

_Ammunition for Artillery 155 mm DM 58 Practice Projectile_

"The DM 58 practice projectile is derived from the recycled case of
the DM 21, equipped with a centrally positioned marker charge. In the
interests of realistic training, the projectile produces a flash and
smoke signature comparable to the live HE round, but much less noise
and ground erosion.

Compared with other training projectiles, its maximum effective range
is considerably shorter. The danger zone is significantly reduced
compared with other practise rounds. For these reasons it offers
significant advantages in the training environment.

When it comes to ballistics, DM 58 HE is identical to the 155 mm DM 21
HE round, and can be fired from the L39 gun; moreover, it can be fired
from the L52 using a smaller propelling charge."

http://www.engineerdir.com/product/catalog/13132/index1.html

We just fired BLPs in drills on the ship. (Blank Loaded and Plugged).
That is a regular projectile with plaster instead of TNT and a plug
where the fuse would go.

I suppose the Army might want to see where it goes beyond just
splashing in the water tho.

Greg, if you have been reading my posts you know I have been shooting blanks
for a LONG while.

--
Tekkie

On 6/10/14, 6:56 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
J Burns posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

It's legal for a minor to drink on the
street as long as he has a cup instead of drinking from the bottle


Is it the mandatory red Solo cup?

It's supposed to have the name of the place it was bought. It's not so
much a liberal attitude toward underage drinking as a liberal attitude
toward certain bars that sell to minors.

On 6/10/14, 3:56 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:24:44 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Let us recap

155mm round hit and house is still standing?

A 155mm round exploded, put holes in the roof, holes in the red brick
and devastated trees with shrapnel. To me it suggests an air burst
(time delay fuse) round and not a direct hit with 14.6 pounds of TNT
using a PD (point detonating) fuse in a direct hit. The house would be
flat on a direct hit with a PD fuse.


This article says it hit 500 feet from the house.
http://swtimes.com/news/national-gua...no-one-injured

Usually two men carry the round on a tray to load the round and sacks of gun power.


They must live near a firing range.

Probably. At least within 23 miles for a 155mm

Old rounds are known to fall short of target.

The TV article originally cited says the shell hit 250 meters from the
post boundary.

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:50:11 -0400, J Burns
wrote:


This article says it hit 500 feet from the house.
http://swtimes.com/news/national-gua...no-one-injured

Aw. According to that it _was_ a live fire exercise, so they were not
using a "practice" round. It says they found no "crater" upon
investigation; which makes me think it was an air burst explosion. I
forget what the radius on shrapnel is on a 155 mm round.

Your link does say the military will pay for damage, when another one
(not the link I posted) said they "may not".

I guess when the home owner sells his house he will need to disclose
the home was hit by artillery

On 06/11/2014 10:28 AM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:50:11 -0400, J Burns
wrote:


This article says it hit 500 feet from the house.
http://swtimes.com/news/national-gua...no-one-injured

Aw. According to that it _was_ a live fire exercise, so they were not
using a "practice" round. It says they found no "crater" upon
investigation; which makes me think it was an air burst explosion. I
forget what the radius on shrapnel is on a 155 mm round.

Your link does say the military will pay for damage, when another one
(not the link I posted) said they "may not".

I guess when the home owner sells his house he will need to disclose
the home was hit by artillery


Artillery, ho hum. Just so long is it wasn't S-Q-U-I-R-R-E-L-S.

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:50:11 -0400, J Burns
wrote:


This article says it hit 500 feet from the house.
http://swtimes.com/news/national-gua...no-one-injured

Aw. According to that it _was_ a live fire exercise, so they were not
using a "practice" round. It says they found no "crater" upon
investigation; which makes me think it was an air burst explosion. I
forget what the radius on shrapnel is on a 155 mm round.

Your link does say the military will pay for damage, when another one
(not the link I posted) said they "may not".

I guess when the home owner sells his house he will need to disclose
the home was hit by artillery

Hi,
Not hit, showered. It makes sense if the house was hit, it'd have been
totaled.

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 1:28:29 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
I guess when the home owner sells his house he will need to disclose

the home was hit by artillery

Yup, and pretty sure his insurance won't pay off next time there's unrelated damage.

On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 07:21:36 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 1:28:29 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
I guess when the home owner sells his house he will need to disclose

the home was hit by artillery

Yup, and pretty sure his insurance won't pay off next time there's unrelated damage.

What am I missing; if something in the future is unrelated, why would
the insurance not pay?

On Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:39:57 AM UTC-4, Oren wrote:

Yup, and pretty sure his insurance won't pay off next time there's unrelated damage.



What am I missing; if something in the future is unrelated, why would

the insurance not pay?

I'm just retransmitting one of the more common memes on this newsgroup: insurance won't pay off if a DIYer lives within 150 meters of the dwelling.