Any ideas on how to make an airtight connection of two
50-foot long 1.5" diameter pool vacuum hoses for siphoning?

This isn't working (it's leaking & therefore not siphoning)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...36137f4d9b.jpg

On Tue, 6 May 2014 21:29:52 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Any ideas on how to make an airtight connection of two
50-foot long 1.5" diameter pool vacuum hoses for siphoning?

This isn't working (it's leaking & therefore not siphoning)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...36137f4d9b.jpg

Where are they leaking? Inspect the hoses. There may be a hole along
the side that is sucking air - if the hose is floating on the pool
surface.
....
P.S. note for you. You once asked about the Aqua Comb for cleaning
pool filters. I just bought one, $10 off. Not used it yet but found a
video. The guy lives in your area, I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVNEF2m8Gnw

On Tue, 06 May 2014 15:38:33 -0700, Oren wrote:

P.S. note for you. You once asked about the Aqua Comb for cleaning
pool filters. I just bought one, $10 off. Not used it yet but found a
video. The guy lives in your area, I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVNEF2m8Gnw

Hi there Oren,

Funny you should mention that, because, since the pool was green:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/...032254e9_b.jpg

I just today thoroughly cleaned both cartidge filters!

Here's the small filter, being cleaned at about 75PSI:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7429/...e8998cce_b.jpg

And, here's an attempt at soaking it in a blue recycling bin:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7424/...ff9d6bce_b.jpg

Some day, I'll figure out how to plug the leaks!
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7394/...8d6bfd22_b.jpg

On Tue, 06 May 2014 15:38:33 -0700, Oren wrote:

Where are they leaking? Inspect the hoses. There may be a hole along
the side that is sucking air - if the hose is floating on the pool
surface.

Hi Oren,
Both 50-foot hoses work just fine, all by themselves; but I need to
combine them together to empty the last 4 feet of the pool!
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7361/...fa19d30f_b.jpg

Since the pool equipment is below the pool, I first opened the
spout at the filter, and then I opened up the pump baskets, and
that drained the pool about half way.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/...07eae28e_b.jpg

Then, I siphoned off another few feet of water with the individual
50-foot lengths of 1.5" diameter vacuum hose:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/...032254e9_b.jpg

The problem is now the water level is too low for the 50 foot
lengths of vacuum hose, so I have to join them together on the
pool deck:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...137f4d9b_b.jpg

Each time I try, I fail, and I can see water leaking out at the
joint. I tried the "blue" glue (which is really a solvent), but
it failed miserably as the white stuff on the ends of the vacuum
hoses won't stick to the blue glue.

So, at the moment, I'm siphoning with a 100 foot long 3/4" garden
hose:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...50044399_b.jpg

But, the outflow from the garden hose is puny compared to that
of the vacuum hoses.h
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2915/...a4c1fc1c_b.jpg

What I need is some way to join the two vacuum hoses with an
airtight fit. The contraption I'm using works fine for vacuuming,
but, it won't siphon (due to small leaks somewhere I guess).
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...137f4d9b_b.jpg

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 May 2014 15:38:33 -0700, Oren wrote:

Where are they leaking? Inspect the hoses. There may be a hole along
the side that is sucking air - if the hose is floating on the pool
surface.

Hi Oren,
Both 50-foot hoses work just fine, all by themselves; but I need to
combine them together to empty the last 4 feet of the pool!
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7361/...fa19d30f_b.jpg

Since the pool equipment is below the pool, I first opened the
spout at the filter, and then I opened up the pump baskets, and
that drained the pool about half way.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/...07eae28e_b.jpg

Then, I siphoned off another few feet of water with the individual
50-foot lengths of 1.5" diameter vacuum hose:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/...032254e9_b.jpg

The problem is now the water level is too low for the 50 foot
lengths of vacuum hose, so I have to join them together on the
pool deck:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...137f4d9b_b.jpg

Each time I try, I fail, and I can see water leaking out at the
joint. I tried the "blue" glue (which is really a solvent), but
it failed miserably as the white stuff on the ends of the vacuum
hoses won't stick to the blue glue.

So, at the moment, I'm siphoning with a 100 foot long 3/4" garden
hose:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...50044399_b.jpg

But, the outflow from the garden hose is puny compared to that
of the vacuum hoses.h
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2915/...a4c1fc1c_b.jpg

What I need is some way to join the two vacuum hoses with an
airtight fit. The contraption I'm using works fine for vacuuming,
but, it won't siphon (due to small leaks somewhere I guess).
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...137f4d9b_b.jpg


why don't you just use garden hose(s)?

On Tue, 6 May 2014 22:43:58 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Some day, I'll figure out how to plug the leaks!
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7394/...8d6bfd22_b.jpg


Silicone Caulk. Look for a toothpaste sized squeeze tube.

Did you inspect along the hose sides for holes - caulk them

Danny,

Any ideas on how to make an airtight connection of two
50-foot long 1.5" diameter pool vacuum hoses for siphoning?
This isn't working (it's leaking & therefore not siphoning)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...36137f4d9b.jpg

How about a rubber Fernco style coupling?

Here's one you can find at Home Depot:

http://tinyurl.com/n33527n

As long as you keep the two hose ends close together, I wouldn't think it
would collapse from the suction. The rubber fitting can also accomodate
hose ends that are slightly larger or smaller.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On Tue, 06 May 2014 16:04:08 -0700, Oren wrote:

Silicone Caulk. Look for a toothpaste sized squeeze tube.

Yea, I keep forgetting to plug those leaks in the recycling
bins.

I only use them for water when I'm cleaning the filters
so, I keep forgetting to plug them ahead of time.

Next time. I promise...

On Tue, 6 May 2014 15:59:34 -0700, "Pico Rico"
wrote:

What I need is some way to join the two vacuum hoses with an
airtight fit. The contraption I'm using works fine for vacuuming,
but, it won't siphon (due to small leaks somewhere I guess).
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...137f4d9b_b.jpg


why don't you just use garden hose(s)?

....invest in a little GIANT, Big John 1/4 HP, submersible sump pump.
Mine gets me down to 2 inches of water and shuts off - nothing to
worry about. 25' power cord connected to a garden hose. Water the
trees

On Tue, 06 May 2014 15:59:34 -0700, Pico Rico wrote:

why don't you just use garden hose(s)?

I am using the garden hose now, but it sucks:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...50044399_b.jpg

Garden hoses easily plug up with the muck.
See this muck, for example, cleaned up from earlier today:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2905/...c761128e_b.jpg

Plus, the output from the garden hose is downright puny:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/...454d5afb_b.jpg

What takes about an hour with the 1.5 inch diameter vacuum
hose seems to take about four times as long with the 3/4" diameter
garden hose.

Even longer if I don't unclog the plugs that inevitably occur.
So, really, as a solution, the garden hose stinks!

What I need is to join the two 50 foot vacuum hoses, or, find
a cheap alternative to 1.5 inch diameter hose for at least 100
feet.

On Tue, 6 May 2014 23:15:07 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 06 May 2014 16:04:08 -0700, Oren wrote:

Silicone Caulk. Look for a toothpaste sized squeeze tube.

Yea, I keep forgetting to plug those leaks in the recycling
bins.

I only use them for water when I'm cleaning the filters
so, I keep forgetting to plug them ahead of time.

Next time. I promise...

They are intended to leak. Water is heavy on trash day, if they are
full.

On Tue, 06 May 2014 23:10:24 +0000, HerHusband wrote:

How about a rubber Fernco style coupling?

That's a GREAT IDEA!

The Fernco should work!
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fernco-1-...-150/100058870

I was leaning along the lines of a threaded contraption, but,
I agree with you that a fernco *should* be strong enough not
to collapse.

One problem is that the 1.5 inch diameter vacuum hose ends
are tapered, but, if I'm lucky, I can cinch down the Fernco
and it might seal air tight!

I'll see if I can pick up one today and let you know how
it works out.

Meanwhile, the garden hose is ****ing out the green water
inexorably, but it clogs up too much to be the real solution.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...50044399_b.jpg

On Tue, 06 May 2014 16:15:39 -0700, Oren wrote:

...invest in a little GIANT, Big John 1/4 HP, submersible sump pump.
Mine gets me down to 2 inches of water and shuts off - nothing to
worry about. 25' power cord connected to a garden hose. Water the
trees

I have a sears 1.5 HP (I think) pump, but, it's such a pain in the
buns to get working since it needs to be primed. And, it needs its
own special size hose, and fittings, and working around electricity
and water is never a good thing (yes, I connect it to the GCFI).

I love the simplicity of a siphon!

If only I could get an airtight connection. I'll try the Fernco and
report back.

On Tue, 06 May 2014 23:19:11 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

What takes about an hour with the 1.5 inch diameter vacuum
hose seems to take about four times as long with the 3/4" diameter
garden hose.

I should say that, with opening the drain and siphoning with the 1.5 inch
diameter hose, it still took about 15 hours just to get to this point.

So, with the garden hose, it would take something like four times that,
and even longer if it clogs (which it inevitably does). Same thing with
the pump (it takes forever and requires too many shenanigans to get it
to keep working as it clogs up all the time also).

Nothing compares to 1.5 inches of sheer diameter!

On Tue, 6 May 2014 23:25:17 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 06 May 2014 16:15:39 -0700, Oren wrote:

...invest in a little GIANT, Big John 1/4 HP, submersible sump pump.
Mine gets me down to 2 inches of water and shuts off - nothing to
worry about. 25' power cord connected to a garden hose. Water the
trees

I have a sears 1.5 HP (I think) pump, but, it's such a pain in the
buns to get working since it needs to be primed. And, it needs its
own special size hose, and fittings, and working around electricity
and water is never a good thing (yes, I connect it to the GCFI).

The "submersible pump" I mention is safe. Drop it in the pool and pump
the water out. It is sealed, double insulated. If it did leak it
would trip my GFCI. Never try to repair the power cord.

Never try to repair it. That would prove to be dangerous.

I'm still here

Danny:

What you need is called a vaccuum hose joiner:

http://www.steam-brite.com/images/va...-connector.jpg

Connector 1.5" OD X 1.5" OD Smooth Wall Plastic Vacuum Hose Joiner [659647911806] - Hose Cuffs & Connectors - Parts & Accessories

Steam Brite: Carpet Cleaning Machines, Truck Mount Carpet Cleaning Machine, Air Duct Cleaning Machines

It's basically just a piece of hard plastic that you can push both of the hose cuffs onto.

Phone up any carpet cleaning company and ask where you can buy one of those in your area.

What I'm seeing is that you have standard vaccuum hose. That vaccuum hose has a steel wire in it to prevent the hose from collapsing when the gauge pressure inside it is negative. The white vinyl ends on your hoses are called "cuffs" and you can buy them at any place listed under Janitorial Equipment & Supplies in your yellow pages phone directory. Those cuffs have an internal female thread that screws onto the external male thread created by the steel wire inside the hose.

You can see the female threads on the inside of the cuffs in this pictu

http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225..._2v9HZe-bw.jpg

BUT, IT'S A LEFT HAND THREAD, so you have to turn the cuffs CLOCKWISE to unscrew them off the ends of your hoses.

A hose joiner is just a piece of plastic that you push both hose cuffs onto, and thereby effectively connect the two hoses end-to-end.

You might also ask to see if the Janitorial Supply store would sell a vaccuum hose coupling which would allow you could screw both hoses into it, thereby joining the two hoses end-to-end, but such a product might not be practical. That's because you can easily screw the coupling onto one hose end, but then you'd have to screw the second HOSE into the coupling because you wouldn't be able to turn the coupling for the second hose. You'd have to turn the hose instead of the coupling, and that would be a nuisance. Still, it's worth asking about because there may be applications where the hoses have to sustain tension in them (if they're hanging from one floor level over a balcony to the floor below for example). In that case, you'd have to have a hose coupling and not just a hose joiner.

In the Janitorial Service sector of the economy, both 1 1/4 inch and 1 1/2 inch hoses are standard sizes. So, if you have a piece of 1 1/2 inch copper pipe, you might be able to use that as a hose joiner as well. I have plenty of 1 1/2 inch hose cuffs, but I don't have a piece of 1 1/2 inch copper pipe, so I don't know how well it would fit into a 1 1/2 inch vinyl hose cuff. I'd unscrew one of your hose cuffs and take it down to any plumbing contractor to see if you can just use 1 1/2 inch copper pipe instead.

Hope this helps.

Disregard that last paragraph.

1 1/2 inch hose cuffs have an ID of 1 1/2 inches.

Copper pipe has a nominal ID of 1 1/2 inches, but a larger OD.

About the only way you'd be able to slip those hose cuffs over 1 1/2 inch copper pipe is if you unscrew them from the hoses and dip them in boiling water for a minute. Then the vinyl would be soft enough to fit over the 1 1/2 inch copper pipe fairly easily.

If you have to do what you're doing every year, it would make sense to buy a vaccuum hose joiner (or coupling) so that you don't have to fight with this same problem every year.

Also, I've heard of janitors using silicone caulk as thread sealant on their hose cuffs to both ensure the cuffs don't loosen up and to ensure an airtight seal at the cuff/hose connection. If your cuffs are hard to unscrew, don't force them because they're probably siliconed on. You should be able to push both 1 1/2 inch cuffs onto a vaccuum hose joiner so there's really no need to remove the cuffs from the hoses.

Danny D. posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On Tue, 06 May 2014 15:38:33 -0700, Oren wrote:

P.S. note for you. You once asked about the Aqua Comb for cleaning
pool filters. I just bought one, $10 off. Not used it yet but found a
video. The guy lives in your area, I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVNEF2m8Gnw

Hi there Oren,

Funny you should mention that, because, since the pool was green:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/...032254e9_b.jpg

I just today thoroughly cleaned both cartidge filters!

Here's the small filter, being cleaned at about 75PSI:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7429/...e8998cce_b.jpg

And, here's an attempt at soaking it in a blue recycling bin:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7424/...ff9d6bce_b.jpg

Some day, I'll figure out how to plug the leaks!
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7394/...8d6bfd22_b.jpg


Geez, this has more leaks than the NSA.

Why not just get 50ft of black drain hose and be done with aggravation?

--
Tekkie

On Tue, 6 May 2014 23:27:49 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Nothing compares to 1.5 inches of sheer diameter!

I've heard about that. Girth is more important than length?

"Danny D." writes:

Any ideas on how to make an airtight connection of two
50-foot long 1.5" diameter pool vacuum hoses for siphoning?

This isn't working (it's leaking & therefore not siphoning)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...36137f4d9b.jpg

Wrong type hose.
Go to pool store buy 100 feet of the clear stuff.

You're going to suck on a 1.5" hose to get the siphon going?

--
Dan Espen

You need a hydraulic ram

Danny D. wrote:
What I need is some way to join the two vacuum hoses with an
airtight fit. The contraption I'm using works fine for vacuuming,
but, it won't siphon (due to small leaks somewhere I guess).
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...137f4d9b_b.jpg

If the 2 hose end fittings are leak free, you could just tape the 2 ends
together with plumbers tape - you know, like 2 or 4 inch wide heavy duty
electrical tape.

On Tuesday, May 6, 2014 7:15:39 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 6 May 2014 15:59:34 -0700, "Pico Rico"

wrote:



What I need is some way to join the two vacuum hoses with an

airtight fit. The contraption I'm using works fine for vacuuming,

but, it won't siphon (due to small leaks somewhere I guess).

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...137f4d9b_b.jpg





why don't you just use garden hose(s)?



...invest in a little GIANT, Big John 1/4 HP, submersible sump pump.

Mine gets me down to 2 inches of water and shuts off - nothing to

worry about. 25' power cord connected to a garden hose. Water the

trees

How about the much bigger pump he already has, ie the "pool pump"?
Every pool I've seen has a bottom drain. You just close off the
other inlets so they can't suck air and turn the pump on.

I'm wondering what he's up to, ie why he's draining the pool to
begin with. If it's just because it's green, most folks take care
of that by filtering and it gets cleaned up in a few days. And having
it sit mostly empty like that, depending on where he's located,
something very bad might happen.

On 05/06/2014 04:19 PM, Danny D. wrote:

What I need is to join the two 50 foot vacuum hoses, or, find
a cheap alternative to 1.5 inch diameter hose for at least 100
feet.

If this is the standard "flat" hose, use an internal coupler. Go down
to the store with a small piece of your hose, and put it on various
types of pipe and/or hose to find out which one gives the tightest fit.
Purchase the product, then use it as an internal coupler, with your two
sections of hose overlapping, and some nylon ties to secure it all
together.

Jon

On Tue, 06 May 2014 21:03:38 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:

Why not just get 50ft of black drain hose ...?

I'm not sure what 'black drain hose' is since the hose needs to
be at least 1.5 inches in diameter and at least 100 feet long,
so, I'm not sure how it's different than, say, 100 feet of
vacuum hose.

Googling for "1 1/2 inch black drain hose home depot", I
don't see anything that fits the problem.
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-...s/N-5yc1vZbuu4

On Wed, 07 May 2014 05:42:07 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

How about the much bigger pump he already has, ie the "pool pump"?
Every pool I've seen has a bottom drain. You just close off the
other inlets so they can't suck air and turn the pump on.

I'm not a pool expert, by any sense of the word; but, I have
learned (the hard way) that this is not a 'normal' pool either.

For example, here is the main filter pump drain, and even the
filter basket itself, wide open:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/...07eae28e_b.jpg

That only drains about one third to one half the pool.

On Wed, 07 May 2014 05:42:07 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

How about the much bigger pump he already has, ie the "pool pump"?
Every pool I've seen has a bottom drain. You just close off the
other inlets so they can't suck air and turn the pump on.

I just belatedly realized, that you meant that I should use the
*pump* to drain the pool from the main drain, which is at the
bottom of this deep end:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7332/...30f6ee95_b.jpg

Of course, as you noted, I would have to block off all the other
wall and floor drains first.

This "could" work, and, it sure would be *fast*; but I'm a bit
confused as to how it would work.

Is this the general plan of action you suggest?

0. Block all wall drains & floor drains, leaving only the
main drain at the deep end of the pool open.

1. Open up the outlet of the main filter pump (see circled valve):
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/...07eae28e_b.jpg

2. Optionally, even open up the filter itself, by either removing
the filter drain plug or the top half of the spherical filter?

3. Run the main filter pump, until the pool is dry.

Is that the suggested active drain procedure?

If so, it sure would be fast because it took days to get to this:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2896/...2513ddfc_b.jpg

On Wed, 07 May 2014 05:42:07 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

I'm wondering what he's up to, ie why he's draining the pool to
begin with. If it's just because it's green, most folks take care
of that by filtering and it gets cleaned up in a few days. And having
it sit mostly empty like that, depending on where he's located,
something very bad might happen.

Yes. It's green. I left it to go fallow over the winter, and it was
a mighty warm winter this year here in the Silicon Valley.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2928/...31332c3d_b.jpg

While I "could" filter out the green, it's easier on the pumps and
cloth filters if I just dump the water in the yard, and refill with
my rather hard well water (which is almost perfect for pools for
its high calcium levels).

Where I live, the water table is 400 feet below grade (at least
that is how deep my main well is dug) so I'm not worried too much
about the pool floating.

I am a little worried about the plaster drying out, so, that's why
I'd like to get it empty as soon as possible.

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 May 2014 05:42:07 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

How about the much bigger pump he already has, ie the "pool pump"?
Every pool I've seen has a bottom drain. You just close off the
other inlets so they can't suck air and turn the pump on.

I'm not a pool expert, by any sense of the word; but, I have
learned (the hard way) that this is not a 'normal' pool either.

For example, here is the main filter pump drain, and even the
filter basket itself, wide open:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/...07eae28e_b.jpg

That only drains about one third to one half the pool.


Maybe you should have turned that pool into the algae growth chamber for an
alternative diesel fuel plant. Looks like you had a good start.

After seeing all the yucky pictures, I hope you post one of your gleaming
"new" pool once filled up and the way you want it.

On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:52:48 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2014 05:42:07 -0700, trader_4 wrote:



How about the much bigger pump he already has, ie the "pool pump"?

Every pool I've seen has a bottom drain. You just close off the

other inlets so they can't suck air and turn the pump on.



I'm not a pool expert, by any sense of the word; but, I have

learned (the hard way) that this is not a 'normal' pool either.



For example, here is the main filter pump drain, and even the

filter basket itself, wide open:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/...07eae28e_b.jpg



That only drains about one third to one half the pool.

I can't make out much in that pic, but it's irrelevant. The
issue is if the inlets in the pool are below water, the pump
should pump the water out. Usually you have skimmers and a
bottom drain. Once the water level goes down below the skimmers,
the pump will draw air and stop working. So, when that starts
to happen, you plug off the skimmers and then the pump will
draw only from the bottom drain.

I seem to recall your pool pump is located below the level of
the pool. That will help. If the pump is at normal ground level
and the pool is deep enough, the pool pump might not be able to
lift water anymore when it gets far enough down. But with your
pump downhill and your ability to siphon, I don't see why the
pool pump can't drain the whole thing.

On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 12:03:40 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2014 05:42:07 -0700, trader_4 wrote:



How about the much bigger pump he already has, ie the "pool pump"?

Every pool I've seen has a bottom drain. You just close off the

other inlets so they can't suck air and turn the pump on.



I just belatedly realized, that you meant that I should use the

*pump* to drain the pool from the main drain, which is at the

bottom of this deep end:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7332/...30f6ee95_b.jpg



Of course, as you noted, I would have to block off all the other

wall and floor drains first.



That's the idea. They have rubber expansion plugs that you can
get online or at a pool sto

http://www.poolsupplyunlimited.com/1...FZNlOgodm00AhA


This "could" work, and, it sure would be *fast*; but I'm a bit

confused as to how it would work.



Is this the general plan of action you suggest?



0. Block all wall drains & floor drains, leaving only the

main drain at the deep end of the pool open.



Yes.



1. Open up the outlet of the main filter pump (see circled valve):

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/...07eae28e_b.jpg



2. Optionally, even open up the filter itself, by either removing

the filter drain plug or the top half of the spherical filter?



3. Run the main filter pump, until the pool is dry.



Is that the suggested active drain procedure?



Kind of..... except for the last part. Every pool I've seen
there is an outlet at the pool pump pad, usually coming right
off the multi-port valve, that you use to pump water out. It
typically has a blue collapsable hose on it that you drag out
to wherever you want the discharge water to go. Then you set
the valve to exhaust or whatever and turn the pump on.
If you take a plug out at the pad, you're going to have
thousands of gallons of water flowing all over, right there.

On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 12:15:07 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 12:03:40 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:

On Wed, 07 May 2014 05:42:07 -0700, trader_4 wrote:







How about the much bigger pump he already has, ie the "pool pump"?



Every pool I've seen has a bottom drain. You just close off the



other inlets so they can't suck air and turn the pump on.







I just belatedly realized, that you meant that I should use the



*pump* to drain the pool from the main drain, which is at the



bottom of this deep end:



https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7332/...30f6ee95_b.jpg







Of course, as you noted, I would have to block off all the other



wall and floor drains first.







That's the idea. They have rubber expansion plugs that you can

get online or at a pool sto



http://www.poolsupplyunlimited.com/1...FZNlOgodm00AhA





This "could" work, and, it sure would be *fast*; but I'm a bit



confused as to how it would work.







Is this the general plan of action you suggest?







0. Block all wall drains & floor drains, leaving only the



main drain at the deep end of the pool open.







Yes.







1. Open up the outlet of the main filter pump (see circled valve):



https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/...07eae28e_b.jpg







2. Optionally, even open up the filter itself, by either removing



the filter drain plug or the top half of the spherical filter?







3. Run the main filter pump, until the pool is dry.







Is that the suggested active drain procedure?







Kind of..... except for the last part. Every pool I've seen

there is an outlet at the pool pump pad, usually coming right

off the multi-port valve, that you use to pump water out. It

typically has a blue collapsable hose on it that you drag out

to wherever you want the discharge water to go. Then you set

the valve to exhaust or whatever and turn the pump on.

If you take a plug out at the pad, you're going to have

thousands of gallons of water flowing all over, right there.


Also, you may not need to plug all the various inlets. There
may be valves by the pump where you can easily turn off at least
some of them.

On Tue, 06 May 2014 18:32:39 -0700, Oren wrote:

I've heard about that. Girth is more important than length?

Heh heh ...

I had trouble with the math of doubling the girth because I
had (erroneously) thought that by halving the diameter from
1.5 inches to 3/4 inch, I would drop the flow to a fourth.

But, looking this up, *the flow actually drops to 1/16th!*
http://www.howequipmentworks.com/phy...w/oldflow.html

Coupling that with the doubling of the length from 50
feet of vacuum tubing to 100 feet of garden hose halves that
still - which means it's 1/32nd of the flow it was:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2911/...1153f4fa_b.jpg

No wonder the pool is taking TREMENDOUSLY longer to drain with the
puny 100 foot 3/4" garden hose than it did with the 50 feet of 1.5"
diameter pool vacuum hose.

Notice, from the static stains in this picture, that the level
only dropped a couple of feet in the past 24 hours:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2898/...684fc694_b.jpg

All the pools I've worked on had a method for draining them in the design.

I hate to suggest it, this is a clear violation of the man code, but.........have you considered checking the owner's manual?

On Wed, 07 May 2014 06:27:47 -0700, Jon Danniken wrote:

If this is the standard "flat" hose, use an internal coupler.

My pool has a cloth filter so we never use the flat backwash hose:
http://amazon.com/Poolmaster-32170-B.../dp/B007OTEJGG

The pool does not have a vacuum (it's supposedly self cleaning); but the
vacuum hose I am using to siphon the water out is this rigid stuff:
http://amazon.com/Poolmaster-33435-P.../dp/B0007PZNDC

You can see the blue pool vacuum hose in the top of this picture,
taken just now, after I hosed down some of the exposed crud from
the overnight siphoning:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2923/...5de0d034_b.jpg

On Wed, 07 May 2014 09:08:29 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

if the inlets in the pool are below water, the pump
should pump the water out.

I only belatedly understood what you were saying.
Up until now, I was "draining" the water out at the filter
pump; but that only got me to a half-empty pool. What you're
saying makes sense - in that I could *PUMP* the water out,
from the main drain, which is in the deep end of the pool.

Usually you have skimmers and a bottom drain.

My skimmers are where this pool differs from most.

My skimmers are not filtered. They have their own pump,
but, the water simply goes from the top surface of the
pool into the skimmers, and then to the skimmer pump,
and then back out through the cleaning heads on the
bottom of the pool. Note that this water does not go
through the main filter. This water is unfiltered.

Once the water level goes down below the skimmers,
the pump will draw air and stop working.

Actually, in "my" pool, since the skimmers have their
own pump, the main pump won't draw air (I think) until
it exposes the three side drains (at least two of which
are companions to the bottom drains for safety reasons).

So, I think, if I understand your innovative suggestion,
all I need to do is block two of the three wall drains
and the floor drains in the spa.

you plug off the skimmers and then the pump will
draw only from the bottom drain.

This is making sense, except, as noted, that I don't
have to plug the skimmers - but I will have to plug
the wall drains.

I seem to recall your pool pump is located below the level of
the pool. That will help.

Yes. The three pumps (filter, spa jets, & cleaning system)
are all located halfway below the surface of the pool.

I don't see why the pool pump can't drain the whole thing.

I had never thought about this before, but, the logic of
what you're suggesting makes sense. I "should" be able
to plug all the wall drains and floor drains with the
exception of the deep-end floor drain ... and ... that
should suck everything into main filter, which, I can
leave open, where the water should spill out.

Of course, there is the problem of debris being sucked
through the pipes and through the pump, clogging things
up ...
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2898/...684fc694_b.jpg

On Wed, 07 May 2014 09:15:07 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

They have rubber expansion plugs that you can
get online or at a pool sto

http://www.poolsupplyunlimited.com/1...FZNlOgodm00AhA

I like those expansion plugs, as they should be easier to remove
than would be a tennis ball.

But, I think, since my skimmers are not connected to the pool
drain, I think I simply need to block the wall drains, one of
which is shown in this photo of the deep end:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2923/...5de0d034_b.jpg

On Wed, 07 May 2014 09:15:07 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

Every pool I've seen
there is an outlet at the pool pump pad, usually coming right
off the multi-port valve, that you use to pump water out.

Is this red valve that valve you speak of?
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/...07eae28e_b.jpg

The water goes from the three or four wall and floor drains,
to a filter canister on the deck, and from there it goes
to the filter pump (which is what has the open basket of
green water pouring out in that picture above).

From the filter pump, it goes past that red valve, and
then into the filter, and then back to the pool.

On Wed, 07 May 2014 09:20:54 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

Also, you may not need to plug all the various inlets. There
may be valves by the pump where you can easily turn off at least
some of them.

Oh, I have valves. Lots and lots and lot of them.

Last I counted, I think there were more than a dozen Jandy
valves on the pool equipment.

Certainly there are some to isolate the spa from the pool.

I'll have to look at the rest, as I've forgotten what they
do offhand, but, valves I have lots of!

On Wed, 07 May 2014 09:28:34 -0700, TimR wrote:

have you considered checking the owner's manual?

They make owners manuals for pools?
I have the owners manual for the pool pumps, and
another owners manual for the filter, and yet another
for the cleaning system, and yet another for the
heating system, etc.

But, the pool?

I don't think they have an owners manual.
Plus, mine is odd.

When I bought the house, years ago, I had pool guys
come to give me estimates on maintenance work, and, it
turned out that *all* of them misunderstood how the pool
worked.

At times, they were perplexed because it didn't act
the way they thought it should. It turned out that
the self-cleaning pools are all designed around the
cleaning system (which sucks, by the way ... but that's
a different topic altogether).