If you feel like complaining about your cell phone, you get 1,000 characters
on the online FCC complaint form & 3,000 characters on the online FTC form:

FCC 888-225-5322
https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/f...orm_type=2000A

FTC 877-382-4357
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/Details

In my case, I feel I was deceived by deceptive advertising on T-Mobile
LG Android phones which advertised 4GB of internal memory *plus* the
capability of a 32-GB external SD card (presumably for augmenting that
paltry memory).

Caveat emptor!

Nobody told me that, after Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich), apparently
you can't move any apps to the sd card, nor can you install apps onto the
SD card. If that is true (and I'm still confused whether that's the
case since it appears to be so for my phone but maybe not for others),
then I feel I was the victim of deceptive advertising.

Mea culpa!

Of course, that only holds sway if lots of other people feel the
same way (otherwise, I was just plain stupid).

So if you feel that you've been swayed by deceptive advertising into buying
an Android phone which subsequently turns out to be useless due to this
(or any other issue), I would encourage you to similarly complain using
the easy-to-use online forms referenced above.

FCC - Wireless Telephone - Unlawful advertising - Deceptive or unlawful
advertising or marketing by a communications company
(does NOT include Telemarketing)
FTC - Use the easy "Complaint Assistant"


PS: Don't tell my sister there is an easy-to-use "complaint assistant"!

On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 18:45:02 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

FTC - Use the easy "Complaint Assistant"


Used it one time. Company called me directly asking me to withdraw the
complaint. The guy knew where I lived, acted like a NYC Mafia
gangster.. Pound dirt - I'll be here when you show up.

PS: Don't tell my sister there is an easy-to-use "complaint assistant"!

Double Top Secret?

On 4/5/2014 1:45 PM, Danny D. wrote:

Nobody told me that, after Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich), apparently
you can't move any apps to the sd card, nor can you install apps onto the
SD card. If that is true (and I'm still confused whether that's the
case since it appears to be so for my phone but maybe not for others),
then I feel I was the victim of deceptive advertising.

It's not the phone maker's fault, nor the phone company's fault. It
was a decision made by the OS creator, and word is that Google did
that on account of copyright infringement and bug issues. Even before
they made that change, an app couldn't be moved to an SD card unless
the app developer had enabled that option within the app.

Android always has work-arounds, and there are work-arounds for this
issue, too. It generally requires rooting the phone, then installing a
third-party app that enables app transfers to the SD card. If you
don't want to screw around with that, you can uninstall the apps you
seldom use. They'll remain in your Google Play account, ready to be
reinstalled at any time. Install them when you need them, then
uninstall them again. Clunky, but it'll work.

The problem is, you bought a very basic and limited-storage phone.
Heck, OS upgrades and a single mapping app alone would probably fill
the available onboard free space within a year or so. In the future,
you'll know you need to make onboard storage a priority when selecting
a new phone.

Moe DeLoughan wrote in :

The problem is, you bought a very basic and limited-storage phone.
Heck, OS upgrades and a single mapping app alone would probably fill
the available onboard free space within a year or so. In the future,
you'll know you need to make onboard storage a priority when selecting
a new phone.


Exactly. He had a list of 48+ apps that he wanted to install, which is way
to many for the cheap piece of junk device that he purchased. What he
needs to do is man-up to the fact that he jumpted on a low price
that was too good to be true without doing his homework on what he was
buying. He bought a Vega and is ****ed that it doesn't perform like a
Corvette, so he wants to blame the manufacturer.

On 4/8/2014 1:32 PM, Zaky Waky wrote:
Moe DeLoughan wrote in :

The problem is, you bought a very basic and limited-storage phone.
Heck, OS upgrades and a single mapping app alone would probably fill
the available onboard free space within a year or so. In the future,
you'll know you need to make onboard storage a priority when selecting
a new phone.


Exactly. He had a list of 48+ apps that he wanted to install, which is way
to many for the cheap piece of junk device that he purchased. What he
needs to do is man-up to the fact that he jumpted on a low price
that was too good to be true without doing his homework on what he was
buying. He bought a Vega and is ****ed that it doesn't perform like a
Corvette, so he wants to blame the manufacturer.


It was like he expected a Smart Car to have the same cargo space as a
Ford Expedition. Nope. Not even with a rooftop carrier attached to the
Smart Car - and nope, you can't access stuff in the carrier while
you're driving, either.

On 04/08/2014 01:41 PM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

On 4/8/2014 1:32 PM, Zaky Waky wrote:
Moe DeLoughan wrote in :

The problem is, you bought a very basic and limited-storage phone.
Heck, OS upgrades and a single mapping app alone would probably fill
the available onboard free space within a year or so. In the future,
you'll know you need to make onboard storage a priority when selecting
a new phone.

Indeed, but this seems like something we should know before actually
buying the phone. Now that we know what to look for we can ask to see
an actual out-of-the-box phone and look at the actual memory usage. We
didn't know about that when we were virgins, though.

Which of you former virgins actually about that before you bought your
first android phone and where/how did you find that information?

Exactly. He had a list of 48+ apps that he wanted to install, which is way
to many for the cheap piece of junk device that he purchased. What he
needs to do is man-up to the fact that he jumpted on a low price
that was too good to be true without doing his homework on what he was
buying. He bought a Vega and is ****ed that it doesn't perform like a
Corvette, so he wants to blame the manufacturer.

It was like he expected a Smart Car to have the same cargo space as a
Ford Expedition. Nope. Not even with a rooftop carrier attached to the
Smart Car - and nope, you can't access stuff in the carrier while
you're driving, either.

The difference here, however, is that the space is easily seen.
Suppose the Corvette ads loudly proclaimed a V-8 engine, but when you
finally opened up the hood you found out that each cylinder only
displaced 100 cc? Yeah, you might have looked before you bought the
car, but how many people know that a cylinder can have pretty much any
displacement that somebody wants to build AND that yeah, size does matter.

I've had people tell me about engine size in terms of cylinders, not
displacement. When I ask about that they look confused.

--
Cheers, Bev
================================================== ==============
"Is there any way I can help without actually getting involved?"
-- Jennifer, WKRP

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 13:38:37 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

Now that we know what to look for we can ask to see
an actual out-of-the-box phone and look at the actual memory usage.

I think it's even worse than that, because, in some cases,
what is reported by the Android OS seems to be totally wrong
(long gory thread on that, with many confusing datapoints).

But, even if the Android phone told the truth, that still
doesn't tell you that the SD card turns out to be USELESS
for storing apps!

And, it doesn't tell you that the phone company made all
their bloatware non removable.

So, they let you "think" that the SD card can augment the
memory (and any reasonable person would think it would);
but, the SD card turns out to be USELESS for augmenting
the internal memory for storage of apps.

But they don't tell you that!
Neither do almost all the reviews.

I only know that the SD card is useless because I found
out the hard way.

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 13:38:37 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

The difference here, however, is that the space is easily seen.
Suppose the Corvette ads loudly proclaimed a V-8 engine, but when you
finally opened up the hood you found out that each cylinder only
displaced 100 cc?

Exactly!

You get the point.

The problem here isn't that 16GB turned into less than 12GB.

The problem here is that 4GB turned into almost 0GB.
Even with the highly advertised addition of a 32GB sdcard!

You understood this thread!

It's not the lie itself which is the problem; it's the scale of the lie.

On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 18:45:02 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

If you feel like complaining about your cell phone, you get 1,000 characters
on the online FCC complaint form & 3,000 characters on the online FTC form:

FCC 888-225-5322
https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/f...orm_type=2000A

FTC 877-382-4357
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/Details

Join the crowd!

False advertising? Samsung Galaxy S4 16GB version actually only has 8GB
usable
http://dottech.org/107633/false-adve...JuiFlhymxaA.99

52GB Memory? Sony India using deceptive advertising for their Xperia Tipo
smartphone in India
http://techwhack.co/52gb-memory-sony...ne-india-5084/

Mobile phones have much less storage than advertised, according to consumer
watchdogs.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...ne-memory.html

Microsoft faces class action lawsuit over the Surface¢s lack of usable
memory
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/...-space/#!DfFvd

False Advertising? Samsung Responds to Galaxy S4 Gigabyte Scandal
http://www.androidpit.com/samsung-re...gabyte-scandal

On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 18:45:02 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

FCC 888-225-5322
https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/f...orm_type=2000A

FTC 877-382-4357
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/Details

Even CNET was fooled!

Notice how DECEPTIVE Samsung was when they answered CNET's question
as to why there was so little memory left on the Samsung Galaxy S4:
http://dottech.org/107633/false-adve...has-8gb-usable

Samsung said (and I quote):
´For the Galaxy S4 16GB model, approximately 6.85GB occupies [the] system
part of internal memory, which is 1GB bigger than that of the Galaxy S3, in
order to provide [a] high resolution display and more powerful features to
our consumers. To offer the ultimate mobile experience to our users,
Samsung provides [a] microSD slot on Galaxy S4 for extension of memory.¡

Notice that Samsung didn't mention that you CAN'T USE that SDCARD
memory for app storage, which was the original problem in the
first place (that the app & os storage took up all the memory).

Also notice how Samsung IMPLIED (ever so insiduiously) that the
memory could be used to solve the problem (of app storage bloat).

To me, they are clearly being deceptive.
They even fooled CNET (who didn't mention what I'm saying above).

On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 18:45:02 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

In my case, I feel I was deceived by deceptive advertising on T-Mobile
LG Android phones which advertised 4GB of internal memory *plus* the
capability of a 32-GB external SD card (presumably for augmenting that
paltry memory).

UPDATE on the first 4GB phone gift:
T-Mobile sent this Google LG Nexus 5 to replace (what I characterize
as the nearly useless) LG Optimus F3 (with me paying the difference):
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2825/1...cd5359ed83.jpg

Out of the box, the Android 4.4.2 OS "reports" 12.28GB of the
original 16GB of internal flash memory as being "available".
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2918/...bd07a0ed_b.jpg

I'm not sure if that's an accurate report, as I'm not familiar
with this newer OS, but that's what it says out of the box.

As for the second 4GB gift, I'm preparing to root the T-Mobile
LG Optimus L9, and take my chances on seeing what I can free
up of the puny amount of memory available.

On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 01:56:34 -0700, Danny DiAmico wrote:

T-Mobile sent this Google LG Nexus 5 to replace (what I characterize
as the nearly useless) LG Optimus F3 (with me paying the difference):
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2825/1...cd5359ed83.jpg

BTW, does anyone know how to reference a FLICKR photo so that
it is the same size as that which I uploaded?

I had uploaded a full-size picture (something like 2Kx2K), but,
viewing page source, this is the only photo reference I could
find.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2825/1...cd5359ed83.jpg

How do we get FLICKR to report the link to the photo full size?

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 10:52:06 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

... does anyone know how to reference a FLICKR photo so that
it is the same size as that which I uploaded?

I had uploaded a full-size picture (something like 2Kx2K), but,
viewing page source, this is the only photo reference I could
find.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2825/1...cd5359ed83.jpg

How do we get FLICKR to report the link to the photo full size?

I hope I'm wrong, but my impression is FLICKR will never let you have a
true copy of what you uploaded back -- only an assortment of variously
reduced quasi-thumbnails. I'd be overjoyed to be proved wrong :-) . -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 22:28:33 -0400, tlvp wrote:

How do we get FLICKR to report the link to the photo full size?

I hope I'm wrong, but my impression is FLICKR will never let you have a
true copy of what you uploaded back -- only an assortment of variously
reduced quasi-thumbnails. I'd be overjoyed to be proved wrong

Don't tell anyone, but, what I've been doing (painfully), is
looking at the "view source" of the displayed photo in order to
reconstruct that URL.

For example, here is what I'm "supposed" to show you (I guess):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/13754583623/

But, what I "want" to show you is just this pictu
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2825/1...849b4ff3_h.jpg

I get that URL, painstakingly, from the source code of Flickr
that I can get by doing a certain few (unstated) things to my
about:config in my browser - and then when I view the photo,
I can see the source code.

If you have a BETTER way for me to point to a photo for you
guys, please let me know as you all know I try to show you
what I'm doing.

As an aside ...

Interestingly, Flickr advertises for programmers in that source!
Here is a snippet ...
!DOCTYPE html
html xmlns:cc="http://creativecommons.org/ns#" lang="en-us" class="no-js html-photo-page-view"
head
!-- _
. - ` : ` '.' `` . - '` ` .
' ,gi$@$q pggq pggq . ' pggq
+ j@@@P*\7 @@@@ @@@@ _ : @@@@ ! ._ , . _ - .
. . @@@K @@@@ ; -` `_,_ ` . @@@@ ;/ ` _,,_ `
; pgg@@@@gggq @@@@ @@@@ .' ,iS@@@@@Si @@@@ .6@@@P' !!!! j!!!!7 ;
@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@ @@@@ ` j@@@P*"*+Y7 @@@@ .6@@@P !!!!47*"*+;
`_ @@@@ @@@@ @@@@ .@@@7 . ` @@@P ` !!!!; . '
. @@@@ ' @@@@ @@@@ :@@@! !: @@@@7@@@K `; !!!! ' ` '
@@@@ . @@@@ @@@@ `%@@@. . @@@@`7@@@b . !!!! :
! @@@@ @@@@ @@@@ \@@@$+,,+4b @@@@ `7@@@b !!!!
@@@@ : @@@@ @@@@ `7%S@@hX!P' @@@@ `7@@@b !!!! .
: """" """" """" :. `^"^` """" `""""" ''''
` - . . _._ ` _._ _ . -
, ` ,glllllllllg, `-: ' .~ . . . ~. `
,jlllllllllllllllp, .!' .+. . . . . . .+. `.
` jllllllllllllllllllll ` +. . . . . . . . .+ .
. jllllllllllllllllllllll . . . . . . . . . . .
.l@@@@@@@lllllllllllllll. j. . . . . . . :::::::l `
; ;@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@lllll :. . :::::::::::::::::: ;
:l@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@l; ::::::::::::::::::::::;
` Y@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@P ::::::::::::::::::::: '
- Y@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@P . ::::::::::::::::::: .
`*@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@*` ` ` `:::::::::::::::`
`. `*%@@@@@@@%*` . ` `+:::::::::+` '
. ``` _ ' - . ``` -
` ' ` ' `

You're reading. We're hiring.
https://flickr.com/jobs/
--
.... stuff deleted ...

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 02:54:55 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 22:28:33 -0400, tlvp wrote:

How do we get FLICKR to report the link to the photo full size?

I hope I'm wrong, but my impression is FLICKR will never let you have a
true copy of what you uploaded back -- only an assortment of variously
reduced quasi-thumbnails. I'd be overjoyed to be proved wrong

... here is what I'm "supposed" to show you (I guess):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/13754583623/

But, what I "want" to show you is just this pictu
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2825/1...849b4ff3_h.jpg

Hey, great! Thanks! You proved me wrong :-) . I guess the latter jpg is
essentially just your 1600px x 1154px original.

I get that URL, painstakingly, from the source code of Flickr
that I can get by doing a certain few (unstated) things to my
about:config in my browser - and then when I view the photo,
I can see the source code.

Great. Care to state those "few (unstated) things" you do to about:config?

If you have a BETTER way for me to point to a photo ..

I haven't. Like you, I'd welcome seeing more ways ... :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

Danny DiAmico wrote:

Out of the box, the Android 4.4.2 OS "reports" 12.28GB of the
original 16GB of internal flash memory as being "available".
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2918/...bd07a0ed_b.jpg

I'm not sure if that's an accurate report, as I'm not familiar
with this newer OS, but that's what it says out of the box.

Sounds about right.

-- chris

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 14:41:56 -0500, K Wills wrote:

In my case, I feel I was deceived by deceptive advertising on T-Mobile
LG Android phones which advertised 4GB of internal memory

How much memory did/does yours have?

I understand your point.

a. LG says it has 4GB of internal memory.
b. T-Mobile says it has 4GB of internal memory.
Therefore, I must assume the phone has 4GB of internal memory.

My question is, how is a consumer supposed to know that this 4GB
of internal memory turns into, in reality, only 600 MB of internal
memory for app and appdata storage?

Where is *that* information located?

It's not like that's not an important datapoint.

I feel the carrier should tell us this information *before*
we purchase the phone, since, I believe, it's impossible for
a consumer to *know* this important information without not only
having the phone in their hands, but also adding their google play
account and trying to install apps onto the SD card (and failing).

If the carrier won't tell us, how are we supposed to know that a
particular 4GB phone is, in reality, only a 600MB phone?

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 5:06:49 AM UTC-4, K Wills wrote:
On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 20:19:44 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

wrote:



On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 14:41:56 -0500, K Wills wrote:



In my case, I feel I was deceived by deceptive advertising on T-Mobile

LG Android phones which advertised 4GB of internal memory



How much memory did/does yours have?



I understand your point.



a. LG says it has 4GB of internal memory.

b. T-Mobile says it has 4GB of internal memory.

Therefore, I must assume the phone has 4GB of internal memory.





It probably does.



My question is, how is a consumer supposed to know that this 4GB

of internal memory turns into, in reality, only 600 MB of internal

memory for app and appdata storage?





Your phone likely has the four GB offered. But, as with all

computing devises, this isn't the amount of free memory you'll be able

to use.



Where is *that* information located?





Probably near the bottom of a print ad. Along the bottom of the

screen for TV.



It's not like that's not an important datapoint.



I feel the carrier should tell us this information *before*

we purchase the phone, since, I believe, it's impossible for

a consumer to *know* this important information without not only

having the phone in their hands, but also adding their google play

account and trying to install apps onto the SD card (and failing).





Since at least Gingerbread, installing to the SD has not been

possible. Or, at least, I've not been able. Although, as I mentioned

before, I've not tried with Jelly Bean.



If the carrier won't tell us, how are we supposed to know that a

particular 4GB phone is, in reality, only a 600MB phone?



I think you're confusing total memory with available memory.

Common sense should have let you know that you wouldn't have all four

GB of memory for use. The OS will use a good chunk. Then you add any

apps you're using.



Agree with the above. And even if you knew how much free memory
it had, I'm not sure how you'd know how to calculate what apps
you could install. I haven't really paid attention when installing
apps on my phone, but I don't even recall it saying how much memory
it needed as a minimum, etc. I can think of three possible solutions:

1 - Look at the apps that are installed and you can see on the phone
how much memory they take. Are there some big ones that he can do
without?

2 - Is it possible that something is corrupted on the phone and it's
not actually that it's really out of memory? Like maybe some apps
didn't install or uninstall completely, etc? In that case, is there
some kind of cleaner utility available that he could run?

3 - Similar to #2, reset the phone to it's original state, start over
re-installing apps.

As for a legitimate consumer complaint, I don't think he has much of
one. Sounds like the phone does have 4GB of memory. They can't know what you
intend to load and maybe not even how much memory the phone will have
without any apps. I would think the OS size could increase after
you buy the phone if new releases come out, bugs are fixed, etc.

I have an Android I bought in Dec. It has 4GB Flash, 1GB ROM.
I've loaded probably a dozen apps. Just checked it and it shows I
have 1.95GB total space, 1.13 avail, apps are taking up .62GB. I don't
have much in the way of say photos or videos stored. But if that were
the problem, that can be re-located to external memory card,
leaving more space for apps.

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 06:52:30 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

1 - Look at the apps that are installed and you can see on the phone
how much memory they take. Are there some big ones that he can do
without?

Take the example of Google Chrome. It's 75MB.
Yet it can't be removed.

There are SCORES of apps that can't be removed, yet, which will
never be used.

Of course, the technical solution is to overwrite the operating
system (e.g., Cyanogenmod), which allows you to control this,
but, my point isn't that I can root the phone ... it's that the
companies LIE to the consumer by intimating that you have 4GB
of internal memory which can be augmented by 32GB of sdcard.

The truth is that you have 600MB of internal memory for apps,
and it can't be augmented.

All I am asking is for the carrier to say the truth in their
advertising.

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 11:18:32 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 06:52:30 -0700, trader_4 wrote:



1 - Look at the apps that are installed and you can see on the phone

how much memory they take. Are there some big ones that he can do

without?



Take the example of Google Chrome. It's 75MB.

Yet it can't be removed.



I just checked my phone. You're right, chrome is a big app.
On my phone it's 113MB. But.... That's the only app that's anywhere
near that size. Next biggest is Google Search, which is 62MB and
they quickly tail off in size after that. Total used is 670MB, with
1.3GB free.

So, where's the list of these other mega apps that are taking all
your memory?




There are SCORES of apps that can't be removed, yet, which will

never be used.



Sure, but again on my similar phone the total of all apps removable
or not, is 670MB, with 1.3GB still free.




Of course, the technical solution is to overwrite the operating

system (e.g., Cyanogenmod), which allows you to control this,

but, my point isn't that I can root the phone ... it's that the

companies LIE to the consumer by intimating that you have 4GB

of internal memory which can be augmented by 32GB of sdcard.


It can be augmented and used for photos, videos, music, etc.
So, I wouldn't say it's exactly a lie.





The truth is that you have 600MB of internal memory for apps,

and it can't be augmented.


Did you verify this was all you had when the phone was new, out of
the box? Or did you wind up there after some period of time, with something possibly corrupted that is resulting in space being marked as used,
when it's not, etc? Did you try doing a full restore on it? Take
it to Tmobile, show them the problem and see what their tech says?

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 08:58:40 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

So, where's the list of these other mega apps that
are taking all your memory?

I had started to compile the list, but then got sidetracked
trying to figure out how to unlock the bootloader on the P769.

Here's the list I was compiling ... (the dashed ones I think
were put there by T-Mobile, the doubledashed ones by LG, I think).

- 411 & more /system/app/411AndMore.apk 1.28MB
-- AAT /system/app/AAT.apk 898KB
-- Accessibility /system/app/LGSettingsAccessibility.apk 655KB
- Alarm/clock /system/app/LGAlarmClock.apk 13.66MB
- Amazon /system/app/AmazonShopping.apk 7.37MB
-- Android System /system/framework/framework-res.apk 6.25MB
- Application manager /system/app/AppBox.apk 898KB
-- Aspect Ratio correction /system/app/CompatibilityMode.apk 71KB
- Backup /system/app/LinkBackup.apk 5.97MB
-- Bluetooth Services /system/app/BluetoothServices.apk 595KB
-- Bluetooth Share /system/app/Bluetooth.apk 823KB
- Browser /system/app/LGBrowser.apk 9.86MB
- Calculator /system/app/LGCalculator.apk 1.69MB
- Calendar /system/app/LGCalendar.apk 5.65MB
-- Calendar Storage /system/app/LGCalendarProvider.apk 690KB
- Caller Tunes /system/app/CallerTunes.apk 1.74MB
- Camera /system/app/CameraApp.apk 5.24MB
-- Camera Test /system/app/CameraTestApp.apk 114KB
-- Certificate Installer /system/app//CertInstaller.apk 61KB
- Chrome /data/app/com.android.chrome-1.apk 74.58MB
- CMAS /system/app/CMAS.apk 593KB
- Contacts /system/app/LGContacts3.apk 13.38MB
- Contacts Storage /system/app/LGContactsProviders3.apk 2.14MB
- Downloads /system/app/LGDownloadProviderUi.apk 161KB
-- Download Manager /system/app/LGDownloadProvider.apk 438KB
-- DRM Protected Content Storage /system/app/DrmProvider.apk 51KB
-- DRM Service /system/app/DrmService.apk 86KB
- Email /system/app/LGEmail.apk 9.27MB
- Email Widget /system/app/EmailWidget.apk 870KB
-- Face Unlock /system/app/FaqceLock.apk 992KB
- Facebook /system/app/Facebook.apk 24.77MB
-- Favorite Contacts Widget /system/app/FavoriteContactsWidget.apk 598KB
- File manager
- FileShare
- Gallery
- Game Base
- Games 7.50MB
- Gmail
- Google
- Google settings
- Google+
- Local
- Lookout Security
- Maps
- Memo
- Messaging
- Messenger
- Music
- Navigation
- Phone
- Play Books
- Play Magazines
- Play Movies & TV
- Play Music
- Play Store
- Polaris Office 4
- Scout
- Settings
- Setup
- Slacker Radio
- Smartphone Mobile Hotspot
- SmartShare
- T-Mobile My Account
- T-Mobile Name ID
- T-Mobile TV
- Talk
- Task Manager
- Videos
- Visual Voicemail
- Voice Recorder
- Voice Search
- Weather
- YouTube
- Zynga Games

On Sun, 6 Apr 2014 08:58:40 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

Sure, but again on my similar phone the total of all apps removable
or not, is 670MB, with 1.3GB still free.

I suspect that you do NOT have 1.3 "still free".

Depending on your Android operating system version,
see the details why I suspect that you probably
have only about half that 1.3 GB as available ...

How do we get Android to spit out the true memory & storage
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...id/e6svmGS1M-E[1-25-false]

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 06:52:30 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

2 - Is it possible that something is corrupted on the phone and it's
not actually that it's really out of memory?

It's a long story, but the memory readout on the various Android
versions is well known to be faulty.

Still, the baseline information is accurate:
a) The phone starts with 4GB of internal memory.
b) The phone can hold a 32GB sdcard.
c) However, Google disallows moving the apps to the sdcard.
d) And the carrier disallows deleting the pre-installed apps.
e) Therefore, the phone is really a 600MB phone for apps!

I fully realize T-Mobile would never be able to sell a single
one of these phones if they told the truth, that it is a 600MB
phone.

In fact, I bought it, believing (erroneously) the advertising,
which intimates it's a 4GB phone that can be augmented with a
32GB sdcard.

Turns out it's a 600MB phone which can't be augmented, period.

All I'm asking is for T-Mobile to tell the truth in its
advertising.

If they told the truth, they'd never sell the phone, but,
they should still tell the truth. Every time I call them,
they tell me it's a 4GB phone that can be added to with a
32GB sdcard (which is a bold-faced lie for apps).

Danny D. posted Sun, 6 Apr 2014 15:24:10 +0000 (UTC)


All I'm asking is for T-Mobile to tell the truth in its
advertising.

If they told the truth, they'd never sell the phone, but,
they should still tell the truth. Every time I call them,
they tell me it's a 4GB phone that can be added to with a
32GB sdcard (which is a bold-faced lie for apps).

Well, we live in age of advertisement.
Lies became fully tolerated behaviour.
Vendors are used to say half truth at the best.


--
Poutnik

There is a good reason, why writers/directors do not repeat
all previous pages/episodes at the start of current one.

Poutnik posted Sun, 6 Apr 2014 17:40:39 +0200

Danny D. posted Sun, 6 Apr 2014 15:24:10 +0000 (UTC)

......Every time I call them,
they tell me it's a 4GB phone that can be added to with a
32GB sdcard (which is a bold-faced lie for apps).

Your cannot say it is the lie.
It does have 4GB and it CAN be added by 32GB card.

It is rather a kind of half truth,
hiding what you can do with them.


Well, we live in age of advertisement.
Lies became fully tolerated behaviour.
Vendors are used to say half truth at the best.



--
Poutnik

There is a good reason, why writers/directors do not repeat
all previous pages/episodes at the start of current one.

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 04:06:49 -0500, K Wills wrote:

Your phone likely has the four GB offered. But, as with all
computing devises, this isn't the amount of free memory you'll be able
to use.

My point exactly.

Why shouldn't the carrier be forced (by the FTC or FCC) to tell
the consumer the truth?

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 11:13:28 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 04:06:49 -0500, K Wills wrote:



Your phone likely has the four GB offered. But, as with all

computing devises, this isn't the amount of free memory you'll be able

to use.



My point exactly.



Why shouldn't the carrier be forced (by the FTC or FCC) to tell

the consumer the truth?

Why can't the consumer turn on the phone when they first take
possession and see how much free memory it has? I bet that if
you went back in the first week and said I can't use this phone
because my apps won't fit, they'd do something about it, like
offer to switch you up to a better phone for the difference.

One problem with having that number available is that I'm sure
it constantly changes with software loads, bug fixes, etc. And
it sure isn't how it works with similar devices, eg a PC.
They tell you that the PC has 6GB of RAM, 1TB of hard drive, not
how much is free and available for either storing or running apps.

On Sun, 6 Apr 2014 08:41:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote in


Why can't the consumer turn on the phone when they first take
possession and see how much free memory it has?

Good point.
--
I kill-file all messages posted through Google Groups.

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 08:41:13 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

Why can't the consumer turn on the phone when they first take
possession and see how much free memory it has?

Funny you mention that because T-Mobile said the same thing.
And, in California, I get a full month to return the phone,
I believe.

The problem, in my case, is that it was sent to someone
as a gift, and I didn't get it back as unusable until
after that - and worse yet - precious time was lost calling
T-Mobile who repeatedly said (they lied) that we could
move apps to the SD card.

I have archived their support emails saying this, and
I referenced them in my FTC and FCC complaints.

T-Mobile purposely mislead the consumer, because no
consumer would buy the phone if they knew it only
allowed 600MB of app storage.

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 2:48:43 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 08:41:13 -0700, trader_4 wrote:



Why can't the consumer turn on the phone when they first take

possession and see how much free memory it has?



Funny you mention that because T-Mobile said the same thing.

And, in California, I get a full month to return the phone,

I believe.



The problem, in my case, is that it was sent to someone

as a gift, and I didn't get it back as unusable until

after that - and worse yet - precious time was lost calling

T-Mobile who repeatedly said (they lied) that we could

move apps to the SD card.



I have archived their support emails saying this, and

I referenced them in my FTC and FCC complaints.



T-Mobile purposely mislead the consumer, because no

consumer would buy the phone if they knew it only

allowed 600MB of app storage.

You know what really stinks at this point? Your continued insistance
that the phone was intended as a gift and it was "unusable".
Yet despite all the
bitching, you have yet to tell us what exactly the apps were that
require more than 600MB for the smartphone to be "usable". Somehow
I smell a rat, like this phone was intended to be used for some kind
of special apps, that require an especially large amount of memory
and you bought an entry level phone. Without giving us a simple
list of the big apps that were to be
installed but couldn't be and hence render this phone unusable,
this whole thing is a circle jerk.

As for not buying such a phone, as I've pointed out, my total app load
on my Android, including Google Chrome and every app that came pre-loaded,
plus all that I put on it, is only ~600MB. So, a phone that gave me
space for 600MB of my own apps, would be perfectly fine.

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 08:41:13 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

I bet that if you went back in the first week and said
I can't use this phone because my apps won't fit, they'd
do something about it, like offer to switch you up to a
better phone for the difference.

That's exactly what I've done for the other gift phone:
Should I take T-Mobile's offer of swapping the $240 LG F3 with the Nexus 5 (+ $160)
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...id/ExlUVakGkYA

In that thread, you will see that T-Mobile has agreed
with me that the LG Optimus F3 (also bought as a gift) has
the same problem as the LG Optimus L9, such that T-Mobile
offered to trade the F3 in at its full $240 value for a
16GB Nexus 5 (at $400, plus tax).

So, my $240 gift has now turned into a $400 gift (each
plus about 10% tax) simply because they lied to me when
I asked how much usable memory was on the phone.

Since I bought the LG Optimus F3 from T-Mobile, they
made good on it, even though it was returned to them
six months after it was bought (albeit at additional
cost to me); however, the T-Mobile locked LG Optimus
F3 was not bought at a T-Mobile store.

Both phones were bought as gifts, but both are unusable
as smart phones, simply because the available memory
is less than a gigabyte.

T-Mobile knows this. They try to keep it from you
for as long as they can; otherwise, you'd never buy
these phones.

That's the whole point of the complaint to the FCC/FTC.
All I want T-Mobile to do is tell the truth.

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 08:41:13 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

They tell you that the PC has 6GB of RAM, 1TB of hard drive, not
how much is free and available for either storing or running apps.

We all agree on that, but we also must agree that PC operating
systems and pre-installed apps take up roughly around 100MB of
that 1TB hard disk, and so it's not in the same league as an
Android OS and apps that take up 3.6GB of a 4GB ROM.

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 08:41:13 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

One problem with having that number available is that I'm sure
it constantly changes with software loads, bug fixes, etc.

I must agree.

So maybe I should ask the FCC/FTC mandate that they state
a minimum amount of usable memory to the consumer?

For example, like they do on potato chip bags or boxes
of cereal or mass-produced items in bulk.

Something akin to:
"Contains at least 600MB of available internal memory"

On Sun, 6 Apr 2014 08:41:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

Why can't the consumer turn on the phone when they first take
possession and see how much free memory it has?

The only way to know the answer is to get out a
calculator and add up the scores of apps that take
up the free space since most (but not all) Android
operating system versions don't tell the true story
on how much memory is actually in the phone in the
first place.

Gory details he
How do we get Android to spit out the true memory & storage
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...id/e6svmGS1M-E[1-25-false]

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 3:59:25 PM UTC-4, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Sun, 6 Apr 2014 08:41:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:



Why can't the consumer turn on the phone when they first take

possession and see how much free memory it has?



The only way to know the answer is to get out a

calculator and add up the scores of apps that take

up the free space since most (but not all) Android

operating system versions don't tell the true story

on how much memory is actually in the phone in the

first place.



So you claim.



Gory details he

How do we get Android to spit out the true memory & storage

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...id/e6svmGS1M-E[1-25-false]

As if anyone is going to wade through all that or gives a damn.

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 15:27:24 -0500, K Wills wrote:

You've yet to show that the carrier lied.
What does the included documentation state about usable memory or
space?

Here is the Motorola spec page which the Motorola support
constantly refer to when they answer my question of the
"usable" memory:
https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-5777

Bear in mind, I am very clear when I ask the question
that I want the *USABLE* memory, available to the user
(not the total memory available from the manufacturer):
http://www.lg.com/us/cell-phones/lg-...specifications

Also bear in mind, that I know the answer, and they
have *never* ever provided the correct answer (until
*after* I gave them the case ID's of my FTC & FCC
complaint).

I am very clear on this. Every single time I called
them to ask, they gave me the wrong answer, except
after I had filed my complaints and notified them
of those complaints.

On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 03:10:50 -0500, K Wills wrote:

Does Motorola make the LG phones?

Ooooops. I had meant T-Mobile.

On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 03:10:50 -0500, K Wills wrote:

If they gave false information, you may have a complaint.

I have all the calls documented, with the later ones having
a known-to-T-Mobile witness (my wife) and I took down their
employee IDs, all very visibly to them.

Only *after* I told them the FCC & FTC complaints, did they
ever tell me the truth, which was that the phone is a 600MB
phone.

It's all documented in the complaints (although limited to
1,000 and 3,000 words respectively).

On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 03:19:52 -0500, K Wills wrote:

It's still a 4GB phone.
It just has 600MB available for your use.

Indeed!

On Monday, April 7, 2014 4:10:50 AM UTC-4, K Wills wrote:
On Sun, 6 Apr 2014 22:55:13 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

wrote:



On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 15:27:24 -0500, K Wills wrote:



You've yet to show that the carrier lied.

What does the included documentation state about usable memory or

space?



Here is the Motorola spec page which the Motorola support



Does Motorola make the LG phones?



constantly refer to when they answer my question of the

"usable" memory:

https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-5777





From the page:



Memory

1 GB RAM, 4 GB ROM

Supports up to 32 GB MicroSD card



Is any of that not accurate?



Bear in mind, I am very clear when I ask the question

that I want the *USABLE* memory, available to the user



According to the specs linked above, you should have been told

one GB.



He's not talking about RAM. He's talking about what they call ROM.
And actually calling it ROM is wrong. It's not ROM, it's Flash memory.
That Flash is used to store the OS, whatever apps are included with the
Android OS and whatever apps the particular carrier chooses to put
on their phone. The problem is, most, maybe all of those, you can't
delete. So, if they fill the 4GB up with crapware, you could wind up
with only 600MB left, which is what he's claiming Tmobile did.
As I've reported, I have a similar ZTE Awe entry level Android and
it shows 1.3GB free and that's after I installed about a dozen apps
of my own. Those apps were about 5 -20MB. So, even assuming what he
says is correct, that you only have 600MB left on the Tmobile phone
for apps, I don't see where that makes an entry level Android phone
"unusable" for most customers.

I agree with him that Tmobile should add something that says that
4GB includes the OS, pre-loaded apps, etc and that expansion memory
card can't be used for app storage.