Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13

There's been some discussion of these over on CPF, but only two reported
spottings both in CA. A web search for these yields only the link above
and two threads on CPF. Lowe's web site does not have them listed, my
local Lowe's doesn't have them, although a CPF poster helpfully posted
the following

For the 30/70/100 [A21 size]: Item# 424732, Model# LA30/100R/LE
0017801998832 600/1100/1600 lumens, 8/16/22 watts
For the 50/100/150 [A23 size]: Item# 424733, Model# LA50/150R/LE
0017801998849 800/1600/2200 lumens, 10/22/32 watts

just wondering if anyone had actually managed to find these little guys
in the wild and your thoughts on them. Are they really "150W
equivalent?" I suspect not, shouldn't that be closer to 2800 lm for a
true replacement? Tint? Color rendering?

I've gone as far as making a custom 3-lamp holder for a torchiere that
holds 3 Philips L-prize bulbs and screws into a 3-way socket (lights
one, two, three, none of the bulbs as you turn the key) but that is not
an optimal solution for table lamps etc. and of course L-prizes are
expensive and discontinued.

I miss being able to use incans without guilt

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.


Now we need an affordable LED

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?philo=A0?= writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Feit A-19's are about $13 at costco. R-30's are about the same.

philo wrote:

On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Now we need an affordable LED

You didn't look hard enough. I've been using very good LG "A" type LED
lamps that were ~$10ea, and recently installed a large number of $25 LED
recessed can retrofits that are also performing beautifully. About 3
years ago LED lamps sucked, but not any more.

On 12/17/2013 10:32 AM, Pete C. wrote:

philo wrote:

On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Now we need an affordable LED

You didn't look hard enough. I've been using very good LG "A" type LED
lamps that were ~$10ea, and recently installed a large number of $25 LED
recessed can retrofits that are also performing beautifully. About 3
years ago LED lamps sucked, but not any more.




I looked very hard but only at one store.

Next time I go to a big box store I'll look again or maybe even order on
line. Shipping is probably what I'd pay for gas anyway.


Glad to hear they are making good ones now.

On my job, we switched from incandescent pilot lamps to LED back in 1979.

On 12/17/2013 10:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?philo=A0?= writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Feit A-19's are about $13 at costco. R-30's are about the same.




In my wife's studio she uses six, full spectrum fluorescent tubes

and three spotlights with 100 watt incandescent "Reveal" bulbs.


The full spectrum LEDs are quite expensive so I bought enough "Reveal"
incandescents to last several years...and hopefully the price will come
down. For the rest of the house any standard bulb will do ...so will
eventually get switched over to LEDs


I have a seldom used antique chandelier in the living room of our 19th
century home...and that one uses antique reproduction incandescents
which I will be keeping.

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 09:52:31 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE8CJwXSPRs

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.


Now we need an affordable LED

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?philo=A0?= writes:
On 12/17/2013 10:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?philo=A0?= writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Feit A-19's are about $13 at costco. R-30's are about the same.




In my wife's studio she uses six, full spectrum fluorescent tubes

In my shop, I have eight F96T12C50's. However, the Feit A-19's
work just fine as a general 60W incandescent replacement.

While 60W incandescents are in the past, there are plenty of
58W incandescents still being made and sold.

On 12/17/2013 11:00 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:




In my wife's studio she uses six, full spectrum fluorescent tubes

In my shop, I have eight F96T12C50's. However, the Feit A-19's
work just fine as a general 60W incandescent replacement.

While 60W incandescents are in the past, there are plenty of
58W incandescents still being made and sold.



In my collection of bulbs are a number of 57 and 58 watt incandescents.

I was wondering why they made such an odd value...I assume it's because
60watt and up are being banned.

On 2013-12-17, philo* wrote:

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Like CFLs before them, they will be insanely expensive until large
scale production ramps up. I recall the cheapest early CFLs at HD
were $15, but Ikea had 'em for $4-7. Now they're a buck. Look
around. I finally found my first cheapo 100W CFL at a Dollar Tree
store, a couple yrs later.

nb

On 12/17/2013 9:52 AM, philo wrote:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13


The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do
exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Now we need an affordable LED


I have a 12watt in the goose-neck lamp over my computer and it's color
temperature is very close to an incandescent. It's supposed to be a
60watt equivalent and it does put out a lot of light. I've had it for a
while and purchased it at Home Depot. I think it was around $20 but the
price has come down since then. ^_^

TDD

On 12/17/13 7:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13

There's been some discussion of these over on CPF, but only two reported
spottings both in CA. A web search for these yields only the link above
and two threads on CPF. Lowe's web site does not have them listed, my
local Lowe's doesn't have them, although a CPF poster helpfully posted
the following

For the 30/70/100 [A21 size]: Item# 424732, Model# LA30/100R/LE
0017801998832 600/1100/1600 lumens, 8/16/22 watts
For the 50/100/150 [A23 size]: Item# 424733, Model# LA50/150R/LE
0017801998849 800/1600/2200 lumens, 10/22/32 watts

just wondering if anyone had actually managed to find these little guys
in the wild and your thoughts on them. Are they really "150W
equivalent?" I suspect not, shouldn't that be closer to 2800 lm for a
true replacement? Tint? Color rendering?

I've gone as far as making a custom 3-lamp holder for a torchiere that
holds 3 Philips L-prize bulbs and screws into a 3-way socket (lights
one, two, three, none of the bulbs as you turn the key) but that is not
an optimal solution for table lamps etc. and of course L-prizes are
expensive and discontinued.

I miss being able to use incans without guilt

nate


Amazon lists some but they are out of stock.
http://tinyurl.com/p538nb9
30/60/75 equivalent

philo wrote:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.


Now we need an affordable LED

Just wait a while, CFLs were expensive when they first came out.
The more (chinese) manufacturers, the cheaper they will be.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

notbob wrote:
On 2013-12-17, philo wrote:

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Like CFLs before them, they will be insanely expensive until large
scale production ramps up. I recall the cheapest early CFLs at HD
were $15, but Ikea had 'em for $4-7. Now they're a buck. Look
around. I finally found my first cheapo 100W CFL at a Dollar Tree
store, a couple yrs later.

nb

Early CFL's more like $30 . 20 year user.

Bought two light fixtures at THD. What luck. They came with bayonet CFL's.
Had to switch the dam sockets.

Greg

On 12/17/13 7:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13

There's been some discussion of these over on CPF, but only two reported
spottings both in CA. A web search for these yields only the link above
and two threads on CPF. Lowe's web site does not have them listed, my
local Lowe's doesn't have them, although a CPF poster helpfully posted
the following

For the 30/70/100 [A21 size]: Item# 424732, Model# LA30/100R/LE
0017801998832 600/1100/1600 lumens, 8/16/22 watts
For the 50/100/150 [A23 size]: Item# 424733, Model# LA50/150R/LE
0017801998849 800/1600/2200 lumens, 10/22/32 watts

just wondering if anyone had actually managed to find these little guys
in the wild and your thoughts on them. Are they really "150W
equivalent?" I suspect not, shouldn't that be closer to 2800 lm for a
true replacement? Tint? Color rendering?

I've gone as far as making a custom 3-lamp holder for a torchiere that
holds 3 Philips L-prize bulbs and screws into a 3-way socket (lights
one, two, three, none of the bulbs as you turn the key) but that is not
an optimal solution for table lamps etc. and of course L-prizes are
expensive and discontinued.

I miss being able to use incans without guilt

nate

Don't feel guilty. Incand are safe and clean. CFL contain mercury. If you read the warmings on the boxes, you're supposed to dispose of them at a hazmat disposal sites. I'm sure 99% of those using them just toss them in the trash. CLF's also are easier to break with installing and removing them.

If you live in CA the Cree True White are supposedly good. I scored some Philips L-Prizes at the $15 subsidized price while they were still available so I'm good for a while though.

I got a response from Lowe's CS about the three ways... disavowing all knowledge of them, despite the press release and a few CPF members reporting seeing them on the shelves (all in CA however, I'm on the east coast.)

The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.
Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.
Now we need an affordable LED

The CREE LED 60W replacement bulbs are only $10 at Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cree-60W-...ite-2700K-A19-
Dimmable-LED-Light-Bulb-BA19-08027OMF-12DE26-2U100/204592770#.UrG1Oyez6R4

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 18:01:47 -0600, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

On 12/17/13 7:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13

There's been some discussion of these over on CPF, but only two reported
spottings both in CA. A web search for these yields only the link above
and two threads on CPF. Lowe's web site does not have them listed, my
local Lowe's doesn't have them, although a CPF poster helpfully posted
the following

For the 30/70/100 [A21 size]: Item# 424732, Model# LA30/100R/LE
0017801998832 600/1100/1600 lumens, 8/16/22 watts
For the 50/100/150 [A23 size]: Item# 424733, Model# LA50/150R/LE
0017801998849 800/1600/2200 lumens, 10/22/32 watts

just wondering if anyone had actually managed to find these little guys
in the wild and your thoughts on them. Are they really "150W
equivalent?" I suspect not, shouldn't that be closer to 2800 lm for a
true replacement? Tint? Color rendering?

I've gone as far as making a custom 3-lamp holder for a torchiere that
holds 3 Philips L-prize bulbs and screws into a 3-way socket (lights
one, two, three, none of the bulbs as you turn the key) but that is not
an optimal solution for table lamps etc. and of course L-prizes are
expensive and discontinued.

I miss being able to use incans without guilt

I don't miss that. I still have a couple of hundred stored in the
basement. At the rate I go through them, they should last my
lifetime.

"philo " wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I think
I'll skip it.


Now we need an affordable LED

Coming up. Lots of new LED bulb products are being rolled out in 2014
according to the LED newsletters.

Tomsic

"philo " wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2013 10:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?philo=A0?= writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Feit A-19's are about $13 at costco. R-30's are about the same.




In my wife's studio she uses six, full spectrum fluorescent tubes

and three spotlights with 100 watt incandescent "Reveal" bulbs.


The full spectrum LEDs are quite expensive so I bought enough "Reveal"
incandescents to last several years...and hopefully the price will come
down. For the rest of the house any standard bulb will do ...so will
eventually get switched over to LEDs


I have a seldom used antique chandelier in the living room of our 19th
century home...and that one uses antique reproduction incandescents which
I will be keeping.

There are "Reveal" CFL and LED bulbs now -- also more expensive. Those
bulbs reduce the amount of yellow light so other colors appear brighter,
especially reds. Complexion tones improve too, so they make people look
healthy even if they aren't. I call it theatrical lighting for the home.

Tomsic

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
...
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?philo=A0?= writes:
On 12/17/2013 10:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?philo=A0?= writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Feit A-19's are about $13 at costco. R-30's are about the same.




In my wife's studio she uses six, full spectrum fluorescent tubes

In my shop, I have eight F96T12C50's. However, the Feit A-19's
work just fine as a general 60W incandescent replacement.

While 60W incandescents are in the past, there are plenty of
58W incandescents still being made and sold.

--- And 72 watt, 52 watt, 43 watt and 29 watt halogen. There's no shortage
of halogen bulbs in any store that I've seen.

Tomsic

"philo " wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2013 11:00 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:




In my wife's studio she uses six, full spectrum fluorescent tubes

In my shop, I have eight F96T12C50's. However, the Feit A-19's
work just fine as a general 60W incandescent replacement.

While 60W incandescents are in the past, there are plenty of
58W incandescents still being made and sold.



In my collection of bulbs are a number of 57 and 58 watt incandescents.

I was wondering why they made such an odd value...I assume it's because
60watt and up are being banned.

That's right. It was a deal between the DOE, the energy advocates and the
lamp manufacturers in 2007. The idea was to replace standard bulbs with
energy-saving bulbs. The manufacturers said what they could do to improve
incandescent bulb efficiency and then they all decided to set wattage limits
so the manufacturers could tinker with light output and rated life to make
bulbs that consumers would buy. The advocates were only after energy savings
so they liked the idea of wattage caps. Since it was a consensus among the
"stakeholders" who came to the public meetings, Congress passed the bill and
George Bush signed it.

But the fun begins again next month since the law allows periodic reviews of
the bulb regulations. The next phase includes the possibility of requiring
all general service bulbs sold to be 45 lumens/watt. The halogen bulbs
range from 15.5 to 22.2 lpw now. Will the advocates get their way? It
probably depends upon who shows up at the DOE rulemaking meetings.

Tomsic

"gregz" wrote in message
...
notbob wrote:
On 2013-12-17, philo wrote:

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Like CFLs before them, they will be insanely expensive until large
scale production ramps up. I recall the cheapest early CFLs at HD
were $15, but Ikea had 'em for $4-7. Now they're a buck. Look
around. I finally found my first cheapo 100W CFL at a Dollar Tree
store, a couple yrs later.

nb

Early CFL's more like $30 . 20 year user.

Bought two light fixtures at THD. What luck. They came with bayonet CFL's.
Had to switch the dam sockets.

Greg

Yes, that bayonet base is called a GU-24. They're required in California if
the fixture manufacturer wants the fixture to be classified "high efficacy"
or if the fixture is to be Energy Star qualified.

Tomsic

"willshak" wrote in message
...
philo wrote:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.


Now we need an affordable LED

Just wait a while, CFLs were expensive when they first came out.
The more (chinese) manufacturers, the cheaper they will be.

Oh, I don't know that it will take Chinese manufacturers to get the price
down. Cree is doing a fine job and they build bulbs in the U.S.

Tomsic

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

On 12/18/2013 12:36 PM, = wrote:
"philo " wrote in message
...
On

The full spectrum LEDs are quite expensive so I bought enough "Reveal"
incandescents to last several years...and hopefully the price will come
down. For the rest of the house any standard bulb will do ...so will
eventually get switched over to LEDs


I have a seldom used antique chandelier in the living room of our 19th
century home...and that one uses antique reproduction incandescents which
I will be keeping.

There are "Reveal" CFL and LED bulbs now -- also more expensive. Those
bulbs reduce the amount of yellow light so other colors appear brighter,
especially reds. Complexion tones improve too, so they make people look
healthy even if they aren't. I call it theatrical lighting for the home.

Tomsic



My wife is an artist and the Reveal work well for her...though most of
the light in her studio is full spectrum fluorescents and the skylights.


As to those 72 watt halogen with the 100 watt equivalence...
I have no idea how they can pull that crap. They are equivalent to a 75
watt bulb!


--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqXl3...ature=youtu.be

On 12/17/2013 8:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13

There's been some discussion of these over on CPF, but only two reported
spottings both in CA. A web search for these yields only the link above
and two threads on CPF. Lowe's web site does not have them listed, my
local Lowe's doesn't have them, although a CPF poster helpfully posted
the following

For the 30/70/100 [A21 size]: Item# 424732, Model# LA30/100R/LE
0017801998832 600/1100/1600 lumens, 8/16/22 watts
For the 50/100/150 [A23 size]: Item# 424733, Model# LA50/150R/LE
0017801998849 800/1600/2200 lumens, 10/22/32 watts


My local NW Ohio Lowes has the 30/70/100 in-stock for $34.99
Haven't tried one yet.
Also Cree has a 75w replacement coming out soon to the HD

philo wrote:
On 12/18/2013 12:36 PM, = wrote:
"philo " wrote in message
...
On

The full spectrum LEDs are quite expensive so I bought enough "Reveal"
incandescents to last several years...and hopefully the price will come
down. For the rest of the house any standard bulb will do ...so will
eventually get switched over to LEDs


I have a seldom used antique chandelier in the living room of our 19th
century home...and that one uses antique reproduction incandescents which
I will be keeping.

There are "Reveal" CFL and LED bulbs now -- also more expensive. Those
bulbs reduce the amount of yellow light so other colors appear brighter,
especially reds. Complexion tones improve too, so they make people look
healthy even if they aren't. I call it theatrical lighting for the home.

Tomsic



My wife is an artist and the Reveal work well for her...though most of
the light in her studio is full spectrum fluorescents and the skylights.


As to those 72 watt halogen with the 100 watt equivalence...
I have no idea how they can pull that crap. They are equivalent to a 75 watt bulb!


Today I came across a post of some high brightness led panels. Some of the
smaller, warmer color temps look very interesting. Seems many of these use
around 30 volts dc.

http://dx.com/p/200w-6500k-16000lm-l...c30-36v-157978

Greg

On 12/18/2013 12:36 PM, = wrote:
"philo wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2013 10:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Feit A-19's are about $13 at costco. R-30's are about the same.




In my wife's studio she uses six, full spectrum fluorescent tubes

and three spotlights with 100 watt incandescent "Reveal" bulbs.


The full spectrum LEDs are quite expensive so I bought enough "Reveal"
incandescents to last several years...and hopefully the price will come
down. For the rest of the house any standard bulb will do ...so will
eventually get switched over to LEDs


I have a seldom used antique chandelier in the living room of our 19th
century home...and that one uses antique reproduction incandescents which
I will be keeping.

There are "Reveal" CFL and LED bulbs now -- also more expensive. Those
bulbs reduce the amount of yellow light so other colors appear brighter,
especially reds. Complexion tones improve too, so they make people look
healthy even if they aren't. I call it theatrical lighting for the home.

Tomsic


I tended to think of "Reveal" as one of the lighting scams, so I looked
for some information:

From GE Reveal - "100W replacement"
1120 initial lumens
[1600 is a reasonable lumen figure for a 100W bulb]

using 28% less energy than regular incandescent
[giving you 30% less light]

CRI 100
["filters out dull, yellow rays" and they have a high CRI?
according to
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/22418166
(digital photography review)
the CRI is about 70
"Unscrupulous bulb mongers push these horrible bulbs at many different
groups."]

delivers outstanding energy efficiency
[Reveal 1120L/72W = 15.6L/W
real incandescent 1600L/100W = 16L/W
filtering the yellow lowers the efficiency]

1000h rated life
[750h for a normal incandescent - they actually didn't lie about this one]

IMHO Reveal is a scam. Did I miss something?
==========================

I was just looking for 100W light bulbs for a garage. CFLs aren't good
because of the cold. LEDs probably aren't available in 100W, and are not
a particularly good choice for bulbs that aren't used much. That leaves
halogen. For 3 brands the "100W equivalent" was in reality a 75W
equivalent. I agree with philo that this is consumer fraud.

Why aren't they prosecuted?

bud-- wrote:
On 12/18/2013 12:36 PM, = wrote:
"philo wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2013 10:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Feit A-19's are about $13 at costco. R-30's are about the same.




In my wife's studio she uses six, full spectrum fluorescent tubes

and three spotlights with 100 watt incandescent "Reveal" bulbs.


The full spectrum LEDs are quite expensive so I bought enough "Reveal"
incandescents to last several years...and hopefully the price will come
down. For the rest of the house any standard bulb will do ...so will
eventually get switched over to LEDs


I have a seldom used antique chandelier in the living room of our 19th
century home...and that one uses antique reproduction incandescents which
I will be keeping.

There are "Reveal" CFL and LED bulbs now -- also more expensive. Those
bulbs reduce the amount of yellow light so other colors appear brighter,
especially reds. Complexion tones improve too, so they make people look
healthy even if they aren't. I call it theatrical lighting for the home.

Tomsic


I tended to think of "Reveal" as one of the lighting scams, so I looked
for some information:

From GE Reveal - "100W replacement"
1120 initial lumens
[1600 is a reasonable lumen figure for a 100W bulb]

using 28% less energy than regular incandescent
[giving you 30% less light]

CRI 100
["filters out dull, yellow rays" and they have a high CRI?
according to
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/22418166
(digital photography review)
the CRI is about 70
"Unscrupulous bulb mongers push these horrible bulbs at many different groups."]

delivers outstanding energy efficiency
[Reveal 1120L/72W = 15.6L/W
real incandescent 1600L/100W = 16L/W
filtering the yellow lowers the efficiency]

1000h rated life
[750h for a normal incandescent - they actually didn't lie about this one]

IMHO Reveal is a scam. Did I miss something?
==========================

I was just looking for 100W light bulbs for a garage. CFLs aren't good
because of the cold. LEDs probably aren't available in 100W, and are not
a particularly good choice for bulbs that aren't used much. That leaves
halogen. For 3 brands the "100W equivalent" was in reality a 75W
equivalent. I agree with philo that this is consumer fraud.

Why aren't they prosecuted?

I don't find waiting for CFL's and fluorescents to warm up a problem. If
your looking for an intruder, might be a problem. Still got an incandescent
in the door opener.

Greg

On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 03:59:32 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

bud-- wrote:
On 12/18/2013 12:36 PM, = wrote:
"philo wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2013 10:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Feit A-19's are about $13 at costco. R-30's are about the same.




In my wife's studio she uses six, full spectrum fluorescent tubes

and three spotlights with 100 watt incandescent "Reveal" bulbs.


The full spectrum LEDs are quite expensive so I bought enough "Reveal"
incandescents to last several years...and hopefully the price will come
down. For the rest of the house any standard bulb will do ...so will
eventually get switched over to LEDs


I have a seldom used antique chandelier in the living room of our 19th
century home...and that one uses antique reproduction incandescents which
I will be keeping.

There are "Reveal" CFL and LED bulbs now -- also more expensive. Those
bulbs reduce the amount of yellow light so other colors appear brighter,
especially reds. Complexion tones improve too, so they make people look
healthy even if they aren't. I call it theatrical lighting for the home.

Tomsic


I tended to think of "Reveal" as one of the lighting scams, so I looked
for some information:

From GE Reveal - "100W replacement"
1120 initial lumens
[1600 is a reasonable lumen figure for a 100W bulb]

using 28% less energy than regular incandescent
[giving you 30% less light]

CRI 100
["filters out dull, yellow rays" and they have a high CRI?
according to
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/22418166
(digital photography review)
the CRI is about 70
"Unscrupulous bulb mongers push these horrible bulbs at many different groups."]

delivers outstanding energy efficiency
[Reveal 1120L/72W = 15.6L/W
real incandescent 1600L/100W = 16L/W
filtering the yellow lowers the efficiency]

1000h rated life
[750h for a normal incandescent - they actually didn't lie about this one]

IMHO Reveal is a scam. Did I miss something?
==========================

I was just looking for 100W light bulbs for a garage. CFLs aren't good
because of the cold. LEDs probably aren't available in 100W, and are not
a particularly good choice for bulbs that aren't used much. That leaves
halogen. For 3 brands the "100W equivalent" was in reality a 75W
equivalent. I agree with philo that this is consumer fraud.

Why aren't they prosecuted?

I don't find waiting for CFL's and fluorescents to warm up a problem. If
your looking for an intruder, might be a problem. Still got an incandescent
in the door opener.

I find it exceedingly objectionable. I normally only have lights on a
few minutes (sometimes a half). I want to see when I turn them on,
not five minutes after I turn them off. I do have CFL in our GDO
because it never gets that cold here. In VT, there was no way I'd use
them. The ones in our living room took ten minutes to come up to full
brightness. It was rarely on more then 30 seconds (long enough to
climb the stairs).

"bud--" wrote in message
b.com...
On 12/18/2013 12:36 PM, = wrote:
"philo wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2013 10:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Feit A-19's are about $13 at costco. R-30's are about the same.




In my wife's studio she uses six, full spectrum fluorescent tubes

and three spotlights with 100 watt incandescent "Reveal" bulbs.


The full spectrum LEDs are quite expensive so I bought enough "Reveal"
incandescents to last several years...and hopefully the price will come
down. For the rest of the house any standard bulb will do ...so will
eventually get switched over to LEDs


I have a seldom used antique chandelier in the living room of our 19th
century home...and that one uses antique reproduction incandescents
which
I will be keeping.

There are "Reveal" CFL and LED bulbs now -- also more expensive. Those
bulbs reduce the amount of yellow light so other colors appear brighter,
especially reds. Complexion tones improve too, so they make people look
healthy even if they aren't. I call it theatrical lighting for the home.

Tomsic


I tended to think of "Reveal" as one of the lighting scams, so I looked
for some information:

From GE Reveal - "100W replacement"
1120 initial lumens
[1600 is a reasonable lumen figure for a 100W bulb]

using 28% less energy than regular incandescent
[giving you 30% less light]

CRI 100
["filters out dull, yellow rays" and they have a high CRI?
according to
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/22418166
(digital photography review)
the CRI is about 70
"Unscrupulous bulb mongers push these horrible bulbs at many different
groups."]

delivers outstanding energy efficiency
[Reveal 1120L/72W = 15.6L/W
real incandescent 1600L/100W = 16L/W
filtering the yellow lowers the efficiency]

1000h rated life
[750h for a normal incandescent - they actually didn't lie about this one]

IMHO Reveal is a scam. Did I miss something?
==========================

I was just looking for 100W light bulbs for a garage. CFLs aren't good
because of the cold. LEDs probably aren't available in 100W, and are not a
particularly good choice for bulbs that aren't used much. That leaves
halogen. For 3 brands the "100W equivalent" was in reality a 75W
equivalent. I agree with philo that this is consumer fraud.

Why aren't they prosecuted?

Look at the ratings of those products again. The 100 watt standard
incandescent bulb has a rating of 1600 lumens and so does the 72 watt
halogen equivalent. It's the light output (lumens), not the watts that are
"equivalent". As I indicated in another post, all of these ratings and
phase-out issues were negotiated by the lamp companies and energy advocates.
The government (Congress and the DOE) didn't get involved until EISA 2007
passed in Congress.

All of these bulbs have to have a "Lighting Facts" label. If you can show
that any of the ratings don't match what the label says, you have a case and
should alert the FTC. They're the light bulb police.

As for the Reveal bulb, what's wrong with a less efficient bulb that gives
better color light as long as the numbers are there so the consumer can see
them. Before GE and others started making the Reveal and other
color-enhanced bulbs, they were specialty products known as "neodymium
bulbs". Then the big companies caught on to the fact that there was a
market. Consumers liked the color.

Tomsic

Now we need an affordable LED

I bought some reasonable priced and quality LED GU 10 bulbs form Amazon before, just around$9, and I think you can find more cheap and quality lights here http://www.lightingever.com/

"=" wrote:
"bud--" wrote in message
b.com...
On 12/18/2013 12:36 PM, = wrote:
"philo wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2013 10:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Feit A-19's are about $13 at costco. R-30's are about the same.




In my wife's studio she uses six, full spectrum fluorescent tubes

and three spotlights with 100 watt incandescent "Reveal" bulbs.


The full spectrum LEDs are quite expensive so I bought enough "Reveal"
incandescents to last several years...and hopefully the price will come
down. For the rest of the house any standard bulb will do ...so will
eventually get switched over to LEDs


I have a seldom used antique chandelier in the living room of our 19th
century home...and that one uses antique reproduction incandescents
which
I will be keeping.

There are "Reveal" CFL and LED bulbs now -- also more expensive. Those
bulbs reduce the amount of yellow light so other colors appear brighter,
especially reds. Complexion tones improve too, so they make people look
healthy even if they aren't. I call it theatrical lighting for the home.

Tomsic


I tended to think of "Reveal" as one of the lighting scams, so I looked
for some information:

From GE Reveal - "100W replacement"
1120 initial lumens
[1600 is a reasonable lumen figure for a 100W bulb]

using 28% less energy than regular incandescent
[giving you 30% less light]

CRI 100
["filters out dull, yellow rays" and they have a high CRI?
according to
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/22418166
(digital photography review)
the CRI is about 70
"Unscrupulous bulb mongers push these horrible bulbs at many different
groups."]

delivers outstanding energy efficiency
[Reveal 1120L/72W = 15.6L/W
real incandescent 1600L/100W = 16L/W
filtering the yellow lowers the efficiency]

1000h rated life
[750h for a normal incandescent - they actually didn't lie about this one]

IMHO Reveal is a scam. Did I miss something?
==========================

I was just looking for 100W light bulbs for a garage. CFLs aren't good
because of the cold. LEDs probably aren't available in 100W, and are not a
particularly good choice for bulbs that aren't used much. That leaves
halogen. For 3 brands the "100W equivalent" was in reality a 75W
equivalent. I agree with philo that this is consumer fraud.

Why aren't they prosecuted?

Look at the ratings of those products again. The 100 watt standard
incandescent bulb has a rating of 1600 lumens and so does the 72 watt
halogen equivalent. It's the light output (lumens), not the watts that are
"equivalent". As I indicated in another post, all of these ratings and
phase-out issues were negotiated by the lamp companies and energy advocates.
The government (Congress and the DOE) didn't get involved until EISA 2007
passed in Congress.

All of these bulbs have to have a "Lighting Facts" label. If you can show
that any of the ratings don't match what the label says, you have a case and
should alert the FTC. They're the light bulb police.

As for the Reveal bulb, what's wrong with a less efficient bulb that gives
better color light as long as the numbers are there so the consumer can see
them. Before GE and others started making the Reveal and other
color-enhanced bulbs, they were specialty products known as "neodymium
bulbs". Then the big companies caught on to the fact that there was a
market. Consumers liked the color.

Tomsic


That about sums up the reveal bulbs I tried. I don't currently have a use
now. Not great for room lights.

Greg

"gregz" wrote in message
...
"=" wrote:
"bud--" wrote in message
b.com...
On 12/18/2013 12:36 PM, = wrote:
"philo wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2013 10:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13

SNIP

I tended to think of "Reveal" as one of the lighting scams, so I looked
for some information:

From GE Reveal - "100W replacement"
1120 initial lumens
[1600 is a reasonable lumen figure for a 100W bulb]

using 28% less energy than regular incandescent
[giving you 30% less light]

CRI 100
["filters out dull, yellow rays" and they have a high CRI?
according to
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/22418166
(digital photography review)
the CRI is about 70
"Unscrupulous bulb mongers push these horrible bulbs at many different
groups."]

delivers outstanding energy efficiency
[Reveal 1120L/72W = 15.6L/W
real incandescent 1600L/100W = 16L/W
filtering the yellow lowers the efficiency]

1000h rated life
[750h for a normal incandescent - they actually didn't lie about this
one]

IMHO Reveal is a scam. Did I miss something?
==========================

I was just looking for 100W light bulbs for a garage. CFLs aren't good
because of the cold. LEDs probably aren't available in 100W, and are not
a
particularly good choice for bulbs that aren't used much. That leaves
halogen. For 3 brands the "100W equivalent" was in reality a 75W
equivalent. I agree with philo that this is consumer fraud.

Why aren't they prosecuted?

Look at the ratings of those products again. The 100 watt standard
incandescent bulb has a rating of 1600 lumens and so does the 72 watt
halogen equivalent. It's the light output (lumens), not the watts that
are
"equivalent". As I indicated in another post, all of these ratings and
phase-out issues were negotiated by the lamp companies and energy
advocates.
The government (Congress and the DOE) didn't get involved until EISA 2007
passed in Congress.

All of these bulbs have to have a "Lighting Facts" label. If you can
show
that any of the ratings don't match what the label says, you have a case
and
should alert the FTC. They're the light bulb police.

As for the Reveal bulb, what's wrong with a less efficient bulb that
gives
better color light as long as the numbers are there so the consumer can
see
them. Before GE and others started making the Reveal and other
color-enhanced bulbs, they were specialty products known as "neodymium
bulbs". Then the big companies caught on to the fact that there was a
market. Consumers liked the color.

Tomsic


That about sums up the reveal bulbs I tried. I don't currently have a use
now. Not great for room lights.

Greg

I agree. There's one in our 3-way floor lamp now. There's plenty of light,
but colors seem overly bright.

Tomsic

On 12/17/2013 07:01 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 12/17/13 7:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13

There's been some discussion of these over on CPF, but only two reported
spottings both in CA. A web search for these yields only the link above
and two threads on CPF. Lowe's web site does not have them listed, my
local Lowe's doesn't have them, although a CPF poster helpfully posted
the following

For the 30/70/100 [A21 size]: Item# 424732, Model# LA30/100R/LE
0017801998832 600/1100/1600 lumens, 8/16/22 watts
For the 50/100/150 [A23 size]: Item# 424733, Model# LA50/150R/LE
0017801998849 800/1600/2200 lumens, 10/22/32 watts

just wondering if anyone had actually managed to find these little guys
in the wild and your thoughts on them. Are they really "150W
equivalent?" I suspect not, shouldn't that be closer to 2800 lm for a
true replacement? Tint? Color rendering?

I've gone as far as making a custom 3-lamp holder for a torchiere that
holds 3 Philips L-prize bulbs and screws into a 3-way socket (lights
one, two, three, none of the bulbs as you turn the key) but that is not
an optimal solution for table lamps etc. and of course L-prizes are
expensive and discontinued.

I miss being able to use incans without guilt

nate


Amazon lists some but they are out of stock.
http://tinyurl.com/p538nb9
30/60/75 equivalent

yeah... 75W equivalent won't be bright enough for reading lamp use, and
while Switch really has some attractive and innovative products, they
need to work on getting their pricing to a non-luxury-good level.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 12/21/2013 08:05 PM, bud-- wrote:


I was just looking for 100W light bulbs for a garage. CFLs aren't good
because of the cold. LEDs probably aren't available in 100W, and are not
a particularly good choice for bulbs that aren't used much. That leaves
halogen. For 3 brands the "100W equivalent" was in reality a 75W
equivalent. I agree with philo that this is consumer fraud.

Why aren't they prosecuted?


If these are old school porcelain bare bulb lampholders, just get a
y-adapter and use two Cree LED "60W" bulbs in each. Probably the
cheapest "energy efficient" solution you're going to find other than CFL
or doing the same thing with halogens.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 12/24/2013 10:31 AM, = wrote:
"gregz" wrote in message
...
"=" wrote:
"bud--" wrote in message
b.com...
On 12/18/2013 12:36 PM, = wrote:
"philo wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2013 10:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13

SNIP

I tended to think of "Reveal" as one of the lighting scams, so I looked
for some information:

From GE Reveal - "100W replacement"
1120 initial lumens
[1600 is a reasonable lumen figure for a 100W bulb]

using 28% less energy than regular incandescent
[giving you 30% less light]

CRI 100
["filters out dull, yellow rays" and they have a high CRI?
according to
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/22418166
(digital photography review)
the CRI is about 70
"Unscrupulous bulb mongers push these horrible bulbs at many different
groups."]

delivers outstanding energy efficiency
[Reveal 1120L/72W = 15.6L/W
real incandescent 1600L/100W = 16L/W
filtering the yellow lowers the efficiency]

1000h rated life
[750h for a normal incandescent - they actually didn't lie about this
one]

IMHO Reveal is a scam. Did I miss something?
==========================

I was just looking for 100W light bulbs for a garage. CFLs aren't good
because of the cold. LEDs probably aren't available in 100W, and are not
a
particularly good choice for bulbs that aren't used much. That leaves
halogen. For 3 brands the "100W equivalent" was in reality a 75W
equivalent. I agree with philo that this is consumer fraud.

Why aren't they prosecuted?

Look at the ratings of those products again. The 100 watt standard
incandescent bulb has a rating of 1600 lumens and so does the 72 watt
halogen equivalent. It's the light output (lumens), not the watts that
are
"equivalent". As I indicated in another post, all of these ratings and
phase-out issues were negotiated by the lamp companies and energy
advocates.
The government (Congress and the DOE) didn't get involved until EISA 2007
passed in Congress.

All of these bulbs have to have a "Lighting Facts" label. If you can
show
that any of the ratings don't match what the label says, you have a case
and
should alert the FTC. They're the light bulb police.

As for the Reveal bulb, what's wrong with a less efficient bulb that
gives
better color light as long as the numbers are there so the consumer can
see
them. Before GE and others started making the Reveal and other
color-enhanced bulbs, they were specialty products known as "neodymium
bulbs". Then the big companies caught on to the fact that there was a
market. Consumers liked the color.

Tomsic


That about sums up the reveal bulbs I tried. I don't currently have a use
now. Not great for room lights.

Greg

I agree. There's one in our 3-way floor lamp now. There's plenty of light,
but colors seem overly bright.

Tomsic



I think that's the idea; if you like the effect, great; if not, just
stick with an unfiltered "bulb."

Oddly, the Cree True White LED "bulb" uses the same technology but in
this case it actually improves the color rendering of the LED emitters
(at least on paper, giving it a higher CRI rating) rather than
artificially changing it as do the "reveal" incandescent bulbs. They
appear to be only available in stores in California however, likely due
to the "California quality LED specification" - very similar to the
L-prize standards, both requiring 90 CRI (the "Energy Star"
requirements only require a CRI of 80, so most of the consumer LED bulbs
have CRIs only in the low 80s) but the California spec goes a step
farther and requires power factor 0.9 whereas the L-prize rules did not
specify (and my checking of a Philips L-prize lamp with a Kill-A-Watt
showed that it did in fact have a low power factor, and that power
factor decreased dramatically as the lamp was dimmed with a Lutron dimmer.)

Now do the Cree TW's actually look better in use as general home
lighting than the standard issue Cree LED bulbs? I can't say, as I'd
have to mail order them and I haven't been bothered to do so yet; I
still have one unassigned L-prize that I picked up when they were still
available for the $15 subsidized price.

I find it a little surprising that the general populace has just
accepted inferior lighting, when those of us who grew up 20+ years ago
had excellent albeit inefficient lighting in our houses in the form of
incandescents but have grudgingly accepted slow warm up times, sometimes
odd tints, and low CRI as acceptable. I went out of my way to purchase
the L-prize bulbs because to me quality lighting is just a nice luxury
and I also definitely support purchasing quality products when they're
available.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 12/17/2013 03:28 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2013-12-17, philo wrote:

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Like CFLs before them, they will be insanely expensive until large
scale production ramps up. I recall the cheapest early CFLs at HD
were $15, but Ikea had 'em for $4-7. Now they're a buck. Look
around. I finally found my first cheapo 100W CFL at a Dollar Tree
store, a couple yrs later.

nb


Actually IKEA is a good source for LEDs and I expect they will improve
over time, as they've supposedly committed to LED technology and phasing
out incans. The IKEA Ledare LED "bulb" is about $11 and has a nice high
CRI (given on package as "87") and is supposedly dimmable. In my
opinion it is a special purpose bulb however as they advertise it as a
"60W equivalent" which I consider to be flat out dishonest and
fraudulent; it's only rated at 600 lumens making it a good replacement
for a 40W incandescent bulb but not a 60W one.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 12/23/2013 1:03 PM, = wrote:
wrote in message
b.com...
On 12/18/2013 12:36 PM, = wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2013 10:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On 12/17/2013 07:59 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
Anyone seen these?

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/10/11/13



The other day, I complained here about the lack of availability of a
decent LED to replace an incandescent and was informed they do exist.

Went to the h/w store today and yep, they do exist but at $50 each I
think I'll skip it.

Feit A-19's are about $13 at costco. R-30's are about the same.




In my wife's studio she uses six, full spectrum fluorescent tubes

and three spotlights with 100 watt incandescent "Reveal" bulbs.


The full spectrum LEDs are quite expensive so I bought enough "Reveal"
incandescents to last several years...and hopefully the price will come
down. For the rest of the house any standard bulb will do ...so will
eventually get switched over to LEDs


I have a seldom used antique chandelier in the living room of our 19th
century home...and that one uses antique reproduction incandescents
which
I will be keeping.

There are "Reveal" CFL and LED bulbs now -- also more expensive. Those
bulbs reduce the amount of yellow light so other colors appear brighter,
especially reds. Complexion tones improve too, so they make people look
healthy even if they aren't. I call it theatrical lighting for the home.

Tomsic


I tended to think of "Reveal" as one of the lighting scams, so I looked
for some information:

From GE Reveal - "100W replacement"
1120 initial lumens
[1600 is a reasonable lumen figure for a 100W bulb]

using 28% less energy than regular incandescent
[giving you 30% less light]

CRI 100
["filters out dull, yellow rays" and they have a high CRI?
according to
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/22418166
(digital photography review)
the CRI is about 70
"Unscrupulous bulb mongers push these horrible bulbs at many different
groups."]

delivers outstanding energy efficiency
[Reveal 1120L/72W = 15.6L/W
real incandescent 1600L/100W = 16L/W
filtering the yellow lowers the efficiency]

1000h rated life
[750h for a normal incandescent - they actually didn't lie about this one]

IMHO Reveal is a scam. Did I miss something?
==========================

I was just looking for 100W light bulbs for a garage. CFLs aren't good
because of the cold. LEDs probably aren't available in 100W, and are not a
particularly good choice for bulbs that aren't used much. That leaves
halogen. For 3 brands the "100W equivalent" was in reality a 75W
equivalent. I agree with philo that this is consumer fraud.

Why aren't they prosecuted?

Look at the ratings of those products again. The 100 watt standard
incandescent bulb has a rating of 1600 lumens and so does the 72 watt
halogen equivalent. It's the light output (lumens), not the watts that are
"equivalent". As I indicated in another post, all of these ratings and
phase-out issues were negotiated by the lamp companies and energy advocates.
The government (Congress and the DOE) didn't get involved until EISA 2007
passed in Congress.

I agree that 1600L is a good value for a 100W equivalent lamp. It is the
value I used, above, and I compared lumens.


If you start at (GE Reveal)
http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWe...l/light-bulbs/

and click on 100W you get

http://genet.gelighting.com/LightPro...CTCODE=63 009

I used the data from there in my analysis, above.

A Reveal "100W equivalent" is 1120L. Consumer fraud.
In addition, as indicated above, GE fraudulently says
- the bulb has "outstanding energy efficiency" when it is lower than a
standard incandescent
- the bulb has a CRI of 100 even though they subtract yellow, and
digital photography review says the CRI is about 70.

And they misleadingly say the bulb uses "using 28% less energy than
regular incandescent" when it also gives you 30% less light.

It is all in the analysis above.

Do you know where the negotiated equivalent watt-lumen numbers are?


All of these bulbs have to have a "Lighting Facts" label. If you can show
that any of the ratings don't match what the label says, you have a case and
should alert the FTC. They're the light bulb police.

As I wrote, 2 other brands at Lowes had "100W equivalent" halogens that
had lumen values that were actually equivalent to 75W incandescents.
The Reveal 1120L is a 75W equivalent lumen value.

The equivalents I use are the same as Consumer Reports (and reasonable
values from my old lamp catalogs):
40W 450L
60W 800L
75W 1100L
100W 1600L
150W 2600L

and from the lamp catalogs
200W 3850L
300W 6200L

From the lamp catalogs, 40 and 60W lamps are 1000 hr. The rest are 750 hr.

I do have an ordinary GE halogen 75W equivalent that is 1050L (an honest
equivalent) and 53 actual watts. I have tried to be careful to not buy
the fraudulent-rated bulbs. The market has a whole lot of bad buys now
(including long-life incandescent, low-lumen bulbs).


As for the Reveal bulb, what's wrong with a less efficient bulb that gives
better color light as long as the numbers are there so the consumer can see
them.

The numbers that "are there" are fraudulent and misleading.


Incidentally both you and Nate have interesting information on
lightning. Thanks.

Before GE and others started making the Reveal and other
color-enhanced bulbs, they were specialty products known as "neodymium
bulbs". Then the big companies caught on to the fact that there was a
market. Consumers liked the color.

On 12/24/2013 10:11 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 12/21/2013 08:05 PM, bud-- wrote:


I was just looking for 100W light bulbs for a garage. CFLs aren't good
because of the cold. LEDs probably aren't available in 100W, and are not
a particularly good choice for bulbs that aren't used much. That leaves
halogen. For 3 brands the "100W equivalent" was in reality a 75W
equivalent. I agree with philo that this is consumer fraud.

Why aren't they prosecuted?


If these are old school porcelain bare bulb lampholders, just get a
y-adapter and use two Cree LED "60W" bulbs in each. Probably the
cheapest "energy efficient" solution you're going to find other than CFL
or doing the same thing with halogens.

nate


IMHO my garage, where the lights are not on much, is a poor place to use
LEDs.

I wound up using ordinary 150W incandescents. I would have tried
halogens if I would have found honest ratings.