On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 12:04:39 -0700, dadiOH wrote:

....snip...
Besides tending toward brittleness, there are a couple other things
about DW
screws that tend to disqualify them. First of all, they are often #7
shank;
for what you are doing I'd want #10, #8 minimally. Secondly is the head
shape; this isn't a biggie but DW screws have a "bugle" head...concave on
the under side. That is great for DW, less so for wood as there is less
bearing surface. As I said, not a biggie especially for soft wood and I
doubt you'll be counter sinking anyway.


I always drive them down to flush, BUT! you're right that shaft is a bit
anemic diameter. That one reply has me now looking for true 'construction'
screws.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 02:39:29 -0800 (PST), Frank Thompson
wrote:

On Friday, November 22, 2013 10:08:16 AM UTC-5, Robert Macy wrote:
Went to add a structure to the studs and need to use screws to assemble

[no real way to pound nails in and pounding would damage existing

structure, so nails are OUT] BUT! vaguely remember some threads here

regarding using readily available 'sheet rock' screws causing failures in

a structure under load.

square vs Torx... which is preferable?

I believe (read as I don't know) one may have a slight edge over the
other but I don't know for sure. All I know is I prefer the square
drive screws. I also prefer brunettes but that's another story.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:30:15 -0700, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

..snip...
Be nice to know more about the operation. What kind of
new work, and used for what? Give us some idea how large,
how much wood, how much load, etc.


new top to mantle of fireplace in Master Bedroom.
getting rid of anemic structure, replacing with a Tuscany style sloped top
with enough sturdiness to mount a big screen on swivel/tilt mounting
plate. Right now the big screen weighs something like 15-20 pounds.
amazingly light weight Vizio

just planning for future. as in do once.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:28:18 -0700, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

...snip....

I second the advice of going to McFeeley's. Also check out McFeeley's
recommendation of size of fastener to use for a given application.
Like dadiOH said -- #8 minimum for any type of structure. For
furniture #8's are OK.

In my experience HD/Lowes and other big box stores don't have the
quality McFeeley's has. I did break ONE of their screws once. I was
screwing into some maple and hit the body of a previous screw at about
right angles and the latest screw snapped. That's the only one I ever
broke out of the thousands I've used.

Thanks for the seconding. I missed that mention of McFeeley's as a
'separate' source, thought they were available at Lowwes or HD.

Snapped only one, on itself, good recommendation.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:48:18 -0700, wrote:

snip...

Don't do it. Get the appropriate hardware.

Yeah, starting to agree, since so readily available.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:43:46 -0700, nestork
wrote:

...snip most interesting historical detail..
It's too bad Robertson and Ford couldn't strike a deal. Then all
Americans would have found out how much better Robertson drive really
is. Now, every American is buying Torx screws whenever the opportunity
presents itself and no one can blame them. After all, Torx drive is
just as good as Robertson.


Too bad Ford never heard of magnets

The Rockwell 3Rill has such a strong magnet that you can stick the
phillips screw in and with one hand...

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 07:18:28 +0100, nestork
wrote:


'Oren[_2_ Wrote:
;3153532']On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 20:55:18 -0600,
wrote:
-
Nails dont break, they just dont
grip as good-

Better check both of those assumptions, Home Guy!

Oren, I don't see that Caulking-Gunn said anything I wouldn't agree
with.

Nails don't break. It's true. In my limited experience banging on the
heads of nails with a hammer, I have never broken a nail. I've bent
lots of 'em, but nary a one broke on me.


Hardened masonry cut nails can break and can fly in most any
direction, resulting in injury to oneself. I've been cut by one
hitting me in the lower lip.

http://orientallumber.com/header_images/1311948721.jpg

Cut nails were used in construction (last century) for nailing
plywood to masonry blocks when building forms to pour concrete
headers. When stud walls were built, they were also used to anchor the
bottom plate to a concrete slab.

http://images.meredith.com/diy/images/2009/02/p_SCDW_050_03.jpg

The plywood forms would be ripped off the wall and the nails remained
in the block. The only (easy) way to get them off was to hit them on
the side with a hammer and snap them off flush to the block.

minor nit To say that "nails" don't break is just not accurate

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 19:41:25 -0700, wrote:

...snip...

Deck screws work for your needs, but why do you feel you need screws at
all. People have used nails for centuries. They work fine and are
cheaper too.


You seemed to have missed where I mentioned spaces too tight to get access
using a nail/hammer, or where I don't want to pound to prevent any
possible damage to existing structure. Or, where I talked about how the
wind pulled nails out of the structures, but the screws stayed in until
the wood itself failed.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 20:48:55 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 00:43:46 +0100, nestork
wrote:

I can't tell for sure from your picture, but I think what you're calling
a "Star" drive is a Torx drive.

It's the same thing!

They also make a "Safety torx", looks the same except has a pin in the
middle so the tip or driver needs a hole. Those are used a lot on
electronics. Possibly the power supply in your desktop computer. They
were made to keep consumers out, but they can be bought.

Everyone acknowledges that Torx is just as good a drive as Robertson.

What is a Robertson? (what does it look like)? I've never seen or heard
of them.

"Robertson" is a recessed-square-head, screw head. As a rabid
Canuckistani, you should know about these things, HomoGay.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 20:55:18 -0600, wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:28:18 -0600, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

I second the advice of going to McFeeley's. Also check out McFeeley's
recommendation of size of fastener to use for a given application.
Like dadiOH said -- #8 minimum for any type of structure. For
furniture #8's are OK.

In my experience HD/Lowes and other big box stores don't have the
quality McFeeley's has. I did break ONE of their screws once. I was
screwing into some maple and hit the body of a previous screw at about
right angles and the latest screw snapped. That's the only one I ever
broke out of the thousands I've used.

Deck screws are still more brittle than nails. While tearing down a
building, I found lots of deck screws that had been used. A couple were
hidden in the manner the head was buried in the wood and could not be
seen. I snapped off many of those. Nails dont break, they just dont
grip as good, but for 2x4 framing, I still prefer the nails.

They were probably rusted through, probably because the wrong screws
were used. Unlike drywall screws, new deck screws will bend.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 02:39:29 -0800 (PST), Frank Thompson
wrote:

On Friday, November 22, 2013 10:08:16 AM UTC-5, Robert Macy wrote:
Went to add a structure to the studs and need to use screws to assemble

[no real way to pound nails in and pounding would damage existing

structure, so nails are OUT] BUT! vaguely remember some threads here

regarding using readily available 'sheet rock' screws causing failures in

a structure under load.

square vs Torx... which is preferable?

Torx, by a furlong. ...if you have the money.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:12:12 -0700, Oren wrote:

...snip...
Hardened masonry cut nails can break and can fly in most any
direction, resulting in injury to oneself. I've been cut by one
hitting me in the lower lip.

you were more lucky than one of my father's construction workers who upon
firing a nail into concrete had it break, fly up, and hit him in the
heart, killing him almost instantly.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 09:49:35 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 09:39:30 -0700, Bob F wrote:
...snip....
Use real wood screws. They need some metal inside of the threads. Look
at a
drywal screw carefully - how mush actual metal is in the threaded area.
Plus,
they are very brittle.


uh, i've got boxes of different dry wall screws. some of them have fine
threads, as fine as metal screws which would normally be used to go into a
nut fastener.

Fine threaded drywall screws are for steel or hardwood (how many times
to you anchor drywall to hardwood?). Use coarse threaded screws in
studs. Don't use them at all for structural construction. Use the
proper fastener for the job.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 09:12:12 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 07:18:28 +0100, nestork
wrote:


'Oren[_2_ Wrote:
;3153532']On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 20:55:18 -0600,
wrote:
-
Nails dont break, they just dont
grip as good-

Better check both of those assumptions, Home Guy!

Oren, I don't see that Caulking-Gunn said anything I wouldn't agree
with.

Nails don't break. It's true. In my limited experience banging on the
heads of nails with a hammer, I have never broken a nail. I've bent
lots of 'em, but nary a one broke on me.


Hardened masonry cut nails can break and can fly in most any
direction, resulting in injury to oneself. I've been cut by one
hitting me in the lower lip.

http://orientallumber.com/header_images/1311948721.jpg

Yep. A friend had a cut nail break and go into his eye. Fortunately
his ophthalmologist knew what he was doing and was able to save the
eye (after surgery every day for about ten days).

Cut nails were used in construction (last century) for nailing
plywood to masonry blocks when building forms to pour concrete
headers. When stud walls were built, they were also used to anchor the
bottom plate to a concrete slab.

They're still used, though "Ramsets" have taken over, pretty much as
pneumatic nailers have taken over other nailing functions.

http://images.meredith.com/diy/images/2009/02/p_SCDW_050_03.jpg

The plywood forms would be ripped off the wall and the nails remained
in the block. The only (easy) way to get them off was to hit them on
the side with a hammer and snap them off flush to the block.

I have that issue with "tackless" nails in my basement floor. Even
thought they're less than an inch long, half won't back out and take
the concrete with them. :-(

minor nit To say that "nails" don't break is just not accurate

The context was clearly framing nails, which don't break unless you
work-harden them first.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 09:32:55 -0600, bud-- wrote:

On 11/23/2013 4:39 AM, Frank Thompson wrote:
On Friday, November 22, 2013 10:08:16 AM UTC-5, Robert Macy wrote:
Went to add a structure to the studs and need to use screws to assemble

[no real way to pound nails in and pounding would damage existing

structure, so nails are OUT] BUT! vaguely remember some threads here

regarding using readily available 'sheet rock' screws causing failures in

a structure under load.

square vs Torx... which is preferable?

A couple carpenters on a job said square was far better than phillips,
and torx was better than square.

+1

Not surprising that that's the order of cost, too.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:12:06 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

The Rockwell 3Rill has such a strong magnet that you can stick the
phillips screw in and with one hand...

I use this: "Magnetizer Demagnetizer"

Works swell for screwdrivers to hold screws for tough places., or for
bits.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/catalog/23216.jpg

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 09:49:35 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

uh, i've got boxes of different dry wall screws. some of them have fine
threads, as fine as metal screws which would normally be used to go into a
nut fastener.

Fine thread drywall screws are used in galv. metal wall studs. ISTR
the tip is also self-tapping ...

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:33:26 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:12:12 -0700, Oren wrote:

...snip...
Hardened masonry cut nails can break and can fly in most any
direction, resulting in injury to oneself. I've been cut by one
hitting me in the lower lip.

you were more lucky than one of my father's construction workers who upon
firing a nail into concrete had it break, fly up, and hit him in the
heart, killing him almost instantly.

Yikes! When using a pneumatic framing nailer, I've had nails curl
back and almost get my hand - holding the material being nailed.

....keep ya hand a distance back from the area so it won't "git ya".

writes:

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 00:43:46 +0100, nestork
wrote:

I can't tell for sure from your picture, but I think what you're calling
a "Star" drive is a Torx drive.

It's the same thing!

They also make a "Safety torx", looks the same except has a pin in the
middle so the tip or driver needs a hole. Those are used a lot on
electronics. Possibly the power supply in your desktop computer. They
were made to keep consumers out, but they can be bought.

Everyone acknowledges that Torx is just as good a drive as Robertson.

What is a Robertson? (what does it look like)? I've never seen or heard
of them.

Square hole.
Just about any deck screw has one.

--
Dan Espen

Dan Espen wrote:
writes:

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 00:43:46 +0100, nestork
wrote:

I can't tell for sure from your picture, but I think what you're calling
a "Star" drive is a Torx drive.

It's the same thing!

They also make a "Safety torx", looks the same except has a pin in the
middle so the tip or driver needs a hole. Those are used a lot on
electronics. Possibly the power supply in your desktop computer. They
were made to keep consumers out, but they can be bought.

Everyone acknowledges that Torx is just as good a drive as Robertson.

What is a Robertson? (what does it look like)? I've never seen or heard
of them.

Square hole.
Just about any deck screw has one.

Where did that come from?

Deck screws come in star drive, Phillips, square and probably some others.

DAGS

DerbyDad03 writes:

Dan Espen wrote:
writes:

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 00:43:46 +0100, nestork
wrote:

I can't tell for sure from your picture, but I think what you're calling
a "Star" drive is a Torx drive.

It's the same thing!

They also make a "Safety torx", looks the same except has a pin in the
middle so the tip or driver needs a hole. Those are used a lot on
electronics. Possibly the power supply in your desktop computer. They
were made to keep consumers out, but they can be bought.

Everyone acknowledges that Torx is just as good a drive as Robertson.

What is a Robertson? (what does it look like)? I've never seen or heard
of them.

Square hole.
Just about any deck screw has one.

Where did that come from?

Just my experience.
I bought a bunch of deck screws at a local lumber yard and HD.
They were all square drive.

No, I did not drive around the country checking,
hope no one thought I did.

Deck screws come in star drive, Phillips, square and probably some others.

I'm sure.

Just my personal experience led me to believe square drive was the most
common. Also, since square works so well, I guessed that most deck
screws would be made to work well.

--
Dan Espen

Dan Espen wrote:
DerbyDad03 writes:

Dan Espen wrote:
writes:
..

What is a Robertson? (what does it look like)? I've never seen or heard
of them.

Square hole.
Just about any deck screw has one.

Where did that come from?

Just my experience.
I bought a bunch of deck screws at a local lumber yard and HD.
They were all square drive.

HD also sells Star drive deck screws. One such brand is Deck Mate. Lowes
carries Grip Rite.

Or is it the other way around? I forget.


No, I did not drive around the country checking,
hope no one thought I did.

Deck screws come in star drive, Phillips, square and probably some others.

I'm sure.

Just my personal experience led me to believe square drive was the most
common. Also, since square works so well, I guessed that most deck
screws would be made to work well.

Star drives also work well.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 07:18:28 +0100, nestork
wrote:

Pulling ring shank nails with a claw hammer is like fighting with a
bear.

Pole Barn nails are the worst to remove, especially the 4" and up....
I know a guy who tore down a barn with those nails, and he just fought
with them. Finally he used an angle grinder (see below).

Spiral shank and cement coated nails aren't as bad.
Smooth shank nails are a carefree run through an Irish meadow in spring
time.

But, pulling a screw out of wood with a claw hammer is like fighting
with 2 bears. My money is on the screw holding better than any nail.

I've tried to remove some of those deck screws with a claw hammer or pry
bar. They either break, or the hammer handle breaks. Which is a real
pain when the head strips out and they need to be removed. I have found
that an angle grinder used to grind off the head is the best, but it
does smoke and gouge the wood.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 07:53:10 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:



Screws will hold better, but the wrong ones will snap and break into
two. I've not kept up with codes, but most would not pass inspection
for constriction of framing.

I still see people using drywall screws because they are cheap and go in
easily. They also break easily.

Call me old fashioned, but I still use and prefer nails for most
construction. I will and do use the screws for furniture and some other
jobs, like outdoor railings, but nails work best for framing walls.
Just the plain old 16D common nail is fine for 2x4 wall frames. They
dont come loose since the nails are going upward or down into the stud.
And they are cheap.

On the other hand, when attaching pole barn steel, I used to use nails
with the neo-washer, and they would work loose and cause leaks. These
days I'll spend the extra dollars and use the neo-screws.

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 09:56:12 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

However, that one reply about using 'construction' screws kind of has me
convinced to look for those.

Robert,

I ran across a link I saved some time ago. Have a look:

http://www.grkfasteners.com/index.php/en/

Video:

_Screws that Practically Drive Themselves _

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWFf4IOuAnI&list=PL1szv0FP8dUthzyAv88t3sQz hxFLWMXRF

_How to Drill a Shank Hole or Clearance Hole_ (dollar bill test)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvLOIxtdRyM&list=PL1szv0FP8dUthzyAv88t3sQz hxFLWMXRF

The "Shank Hole or Clearance Hole" is swell when hanging pre hung
doors as you can adjust the shims without having the jamb nailed.

BTDT.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 12:34:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

...snip....
Robert,

I ran across a link I saved some time ago. Have a look:

http://www.grkfasteners.com/index.php/en/

Video:

_Screws that Practically Drive Themselves _

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWFf4IOuAnI&list=PL1szv0FP8dUthzyAv88t3sQz hxFLWMXRF

_How to Drill a Shank Hole or Clearance Hole_ (dollar bill test)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvLOIxtdRyM&list=PL1szv0FP8dUthzyAv88t3sQz hxFLWMXRF

The "Shank Hole or Clearance Hole" is swell when hanging pre hung
doors as you can adjust the shims without having the jamb nailed.

BTDT.

Thanks for the URL, After 15 minutes still nothing but 'pretty' images,
but looks promising, so bookmarked for when the PC can sit on the page for
awhile.

Sorry, use dialup so youtube is a major luxury. Shank Hole sound useful,
too.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 18:31:45 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 12:34:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

...snip....
Robert,

I ran across a link I saved some time ago. Have a look:

http://www.grkfasteners.com/index.php/en/

Video:

_Screws that Practically Drive Themselves _

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWFf4IOuAnI&list=PL1szv0FP8dUthzyAv88t3sQz hxFLWMXRF

_How to Drill a Shank Hole or Clearance Hole_ (dollar bill test)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvLOIxtdRyM&list=PL1szv0FP8dUthzyAv88t3sQz hxFLWMXRF

The "Shank Hole or Clearance Hole" is swell when hanging pre hung
doors as you can adjust the shims without having the jamb nailed.

BTDT.

Thanks for the URL, After 15 minutes still nothing but 'pretty' images,
but looks promising, so bookmarked for when the PC can sit on the page for
awhile.

Sorry, use dialup so youtube is a major luxury. Shank Hole sound useful,
too.

I thought the link would be easy enough on a slow dial up.

I checked and HD carries the GRK fasteners.(local here).

Apparently they are multi-purpose - wood, metal, etc...

Pic:

http://www.grkfasteners.com/old/images/kameleon_six.jpg

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 18:50:54 -0700, Oren wrote:

...snip....
I checked and HD carries the GRK fasteners.(local here).

Apparently they are multi-purpose - wood, metal, etc...

Pic:

http://www.grkfasteners.com/old/images/kameleon_six.jpg


thanks, those look brutal!

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:39:18 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

I checked and HD carries the GRK fasteners.(local here).

Apparently they are multi-purpose - wood, metal, etc...

Pic:

http://www.grkfasteners.com/old/images/kameleon_six.jpg


thanks, those look brutal!

You didn't get to see the video, but one was driven into a wood knot
on PT lumber. The screw never flinched - it pulls itself in, using
less torque from the drill.

Pic: the tip & threads

http://www.skateramps.us/cs_pictures/w_cut.jpg

Oren wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:12:06 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

The Rockwell 3Rill has such a strong magnet that you can stick the
phillips screw in and with one hand...

I use this: "Magnetizer Demagnetizer"

Works swell for screwdrivers to hold screws for tough places., or for
bits.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...alog/23216.jpg

I use the magnet from an old 5 1/4" hard drive to do that.

RobertMacy wrote:

I wonder if my 3Rill has a Robretson's Head driver?

Another reply suggests not a good idea to even use deck screws, only
'construction' screws.

Deck screws are also brittle and thin from what I've seen. If you removed the
thread, how big would the remaining shaft be? As big as a construction nail?

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:10:02 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:12:06 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

The Rockwell 3Rill has such a strong magnet that you can stick the
phillips screw in and with one hand...

I use this: "Magnetizer Demagnetizer"

Works swell for screwdrivers to hold screws for tough places., or for
bits.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...alog/23216.jpg

I use the magnet from an old 5 1/4" hard drive to do that.

.... how do you demagnetize the screwdriver tip or do you leave it
alone?

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:31:51 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:10:02 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:12:06 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

The Rockwell 3Rill has such a strong magnet that you can stick the
phillips screw in and with one hand...

I use this: "Magnetizer Demagnetizer"

Works swell for screwdrivers to hold screws for tough places., or for
bits.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...alog/23216.jpg

I use the magnet from an old 5 1/4" hard drive to do that.

... how do you demagnetize the screwdriver tip or do you leave it
alone?

http://www.ronhazelton.com/tips/how_..._a_screwdriver

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:11:58 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

RobertMacy wrote:

I wonder if my 3Rill has a Robretson's Head driver?

Another reply suggests not a good idea to even use deck screws, only
'construction' screws.

Deck screws are also brittle and thin from what I've seen. If you removed the
thread, how big would the remaining shaft be? As big as a construction nail?


http://www.grkfasteners.com/index.php/en/products/kameleon

Have a look at:-"GRK’s Kameleon™ Screws are an excellent choice for
composite decking applications and are available in many colors that
match today's most popular composite decking styles and colors."

"Bob F" wrote:
RobertMacy wrote:

I wonder if my 3Rill has a Robretson's Head driver?

Another reply suggests not a good idea to even use deck screws, only
'construction' screws.

Deck screws are also brittle and thin from what I've seen. If you removed the
thread, how big would the remaining shaft be? As big as a construction nail?

I got some. Need to bend it in a vise and test.

Greg

Nail are more forgiving for shearing strengh than robertson china imports that the tensile strengh vary from one lot to another and even number 8 wood screws are not strong enough for a bearing wall a 16D nail will bend before giving , a number 8 screw will cut off like a piece of glass for example to assemble a roof truss system with screws wouldn't be to code and complitly irresponsable if you dont want to pound on the wall use an air gun and start building stronger projects , for brackets you
need to use the code approove lag bolts with the tensile strengh stamp on it heads excuse my english im french canadian ..

On Friday, November 22, 2013 1:31:59 PM UTC-5, John G wrote:
Went to add a structure to the studs and need to use screws to assemble

[no real way to pound nails in and pounding would damage existing

structure, so nails are OUT] BUT! vaguely remember some threads here

regarding using readily available 'sheet rock' screws causing failures in

a structure under load.



Thought I should ask the 'experts' here.



Can I use sheetrock screws if they are to be placed only in tension and

never in shear mode? Or, is using sheetrock screws totally stupid? Are

there readily available 'construction' screws from HD that are an all

around better choice?



Problem is that I've had good personal experience using sheetrock screws

in some other [albeit poorly assembled] construction [choice ofsheet-rock

screws was a matter of convenience and they actually held better than

nails]. The long term integrity of the structure didn't matter a great

deal. All the structures came under heavy wind load the nails failed due

to slight movement simply working the nails out. The screws themselves

remained intact, but sometimes they stripped out of their holes and the

structures failed, too.



However, during construction I did 'snap' a few screws off, reminding me

they are a bit brittle. It's just I envision 'construction' screws being

more 'rubbery' and less brittle.



Are screws simply screws and just go ahead? Is it all right to use

sheetrock screws for a bit of construction? [interior, will have some

loading.]





*I had a chat with a local building inspector about this several months ago.

He said drywall screws are only to be used for drywall. Regular wood screws

don't qualify for structural connections. Deck screws are for holding down

boards. He told me that structural screws are acceptable as a substitute for

nails. You could try calling your building inspector to see what is

acceptable.



Simpson StrongTie makes structural screws of which Home Depot does stock

some. They also have other structural screws from other manufacturers. You

can also use some structural connectors to make things really strong. Home

Depot carry's the screws for fastening the connectors as well.



http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...ource=fastenhp



http://www.homedepot.com/s/structural+screws?NCNI-5

I've never had an inspector gig me for using the larger deck screws to assemble joist frames so I don't think they would have an issue with using them on regular construction either.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:20:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Nail are more forgiving for shearing strengh than robertson china imports that the tensile strengh vary from one lot to another and even number 8 wood screws are not strong enough for a bearing wall a 16D nail will bend before giving , a number 8 screw will cut off like a piece of glass for example to assemble a roof truss system with screws wouldn't be to code and complitly irresponsable if you dont want to pound on the wall use an air gun and start building stronger projects , for brackets you
need to use the code approove lag bolts with the tensile strengh stamp on it heads excuse my english im french canadian ..
Proper "construction" screws have good strength. Deck screws and
drywall screws are JUNK. My preference when building structure is to
pop it together with good screws, then add nails for extra strength.
If you put something together wrong - needs to come back apart, screws
are much better than nails. When you know it's right, use the framing
nailer to firm it up.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:55:21 -0700 (PDT), jamesgang
wrote:

On Friday, November 22, 2013 1:31:59 PM UTC-5, John G wrote:
Went to add a structure to the studs and need to use screws to assemble

[no real way to pound nails in and pounding would damage existing

structure, so nails are OUT] BUT! vaguely remember some threads here

regarding using readily available 'sheet rock' screws causing failures in

a structure under load.



Thought I should ask the 'experts' here.



Can I use sheetrock screws if they are to be placed only in tension and

never in shear mode? Or, is using sheetrock screws totally stupid? Are

there readily available 'construction' screws from HD that are an all

around better choice?



Problem is that I've had good personal experience using sheetrock screws

in some other [albeit poorly assembled] construction [choice ofsheet-rock

screws was a matter of convenience and they actually held better than

nails]. The long term integrity of the structure didn't matter a great

deal. All the structures came under heavy wind load the nails failed due

to slight movement simply working the nails out. The screws themselves

remained intact, but sometimes they stripped out of their holes and the

structures failed, too.



However, during construction I did 'snap' a few screws off, reminding me

they are a bit brittle. It's just I envision 'construction' screws being

more 'rubbery' and less brittle.



Are screws simply screws and just go ahead? Is it all right to use

sheetrock screws for a bit of construction? [interior, will have some

loading.]





*I had a chat with a local building inspector about this several months ago.

He said drywall screws are only to be used for drywall. Regular wood screws

don't qualify for structural connections. Deck screws are for holding down

boards. He told me that structural screws are acceptable as a substitute for

nails. You could try calling your building inspector to see what is

acceptable.



Simpson StrongTie makes structural screws of which Home Depot does stock

some. They also have other structural screws from other manufacturers. You

can also use some structural connectors to make things really strong. Home

Depot carry's the screws for fastening the connectors as well.



http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...ource=fastenhp



http://www.homedepot.com/s/structural+screws?NCNI-5

I've never had an inspector gig me for using the larger deck screws to assemble joist frames so I don't think they would have an issue with using them on regular construction either.
I would not use "deck" screws for framing. I used them for my ground
level deck, but "construction screws" are much more suitable for
framing etc. Not as hard and brittle, and higher strength.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:20:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Nail are more forgiving for shearing strengh than robertson china imports that the tensile strengh vary from one lot to another and even number 8 wood screws are not strong enough for a bearing wall a 16D nail will bend before giving , a number 8 screw will cut off like a piece of glass for example to assemble a roof truss system with screws wouldn't be to code and complitly irresponsable if you dont want to pound on the wall use an air gun and start building stronger projects , for brackets you
need to use the code approove lag bolts with the tensile strengh stamp on it heads excuse my english im french canadian ..

It's not your English that makes it hard to understand you. It's the
lack of periods (full stops) and capital letters or any other indication
of where one sentence end and the nexrt one begins.

And question marks.

I thought they had all those things in French, too.