One of my interior doors has the top hinge with all the screws more or less
"floating in space". It has caused the door to sag a little. This seems
odd to me, since the other 2 hinges are solid as rocks, and yet there is
enough flex in a door somehow to bend or sag just "enough" to not close
perfectly.

Odd.

In *any* case, I am in need of understanding the *right* way a door should
have been hung: All the parts, what they're supposed to be screwed to, are
the hinge screws supposed to extend into the studs, what parts of the door
frame/jamb/whatever are connected to what.

No one I know is "sure", and I would like to know what /your/ opinion of a
good website or other source is.

I'm checking the other doors in the house, and am (I must be thick) now
wondering if this might worsen or outright /cause/ the strike-plate
repositioning I'm always going through.

--
Sometimes life just sucks, and then you live.

"Thomas G. Marshall" . com
wrote in message news:1xCOf.601$eJ1.498@trndny05...

One of my interior doors has the top hinge with all the screws more or
less "floating in space". It has caused the door to sag a little. This
seems odd to me, since the other 2 hinges are solid as rocks, and yet
there is enough flex in a door somehow to bend or sag just "enough" to not
close perfectly.

Odd.


Not really odd at all. A door can hang as little as 1/16" out of alignment
and cause hang up problems. Most likely the door was never hung correctly
in the first place if this is new construction. You mention that the door
has 3 hinges, is that a heavy solid core door? Typically interior doors are
hollow core these days unless you have an uppper end custom built home.


In *any* case, I am in need of understanding the *right* way a door should
have been hung: All the parts, what they're supposed to be screwed to, are
the hinge screws supposed to extend into the studs, what parts of the door
frame/jamb/whatever are connected to what.

No, the hinge screw are not suppose to be screwed into studs. typically
they are about 3/4" long. During constructiona 2x4 constructed rough
opening is made in a wall to accept a door/door jamb assembly. The door is
typically already hung in the door jamb and the installer only has to insure
that the sides of the jamb are plumb and that the top of the jamb is level.
He uses longer screws to attach the jamb to 2x4 door opening. He uses
wedged shims between the door jamb and 2x4 to allow for a tight fit in the
opening. Typically the 2x4 door opening can be as much as 1" wider than the
total width of the door jamb. If the jamb is not plumb, the door can sag
and not close or open properly. The door jamb is rarely attached directly
to the surround support studs. these studs are rarely perfectly plumb. The
wedged shims seperate the jamb from those support stud. The use of wedged
shims enable the installer to insure that the jamb is plumb and square
inside a the door opening.

The normal correct solution is to remove the trim from the side of the door
that was added by the installer so that you can see the shims and gaps
between the door jamb and the support studs. The removable trim is usually
on the side opposite from the side that the door swings. After removing the
trim locate where the screws or nails are located, check the vertical parts
of the jamb to insure that they are plumb and check othe top of the jamb to
insure that it is level. Reposition or add shims as needed and rescrew or
nail taking care to not over tighten and pull the jamb back out of square or
plumb. Replace the trim.






No one I know is "sure", and I would like to know what /your/ opinion of a
good website or other source is.

I'm checking the other doors in the house, and am (I must be thick) now
wondering if this might worsen or outright /cause/ the strike-plate
repositioning I'm always going through.

--
Sometimes life just sucks, and then you live.

I set many doors each year and can offer some suggestions. Interior doors
are generally not screwed into the jack studs. They are usually held in
place with finish nails placed in the area of the hinges and through the
areas that have been shimmed. I fasten doors to the jack studs with finish
nails on either side of the jamb at 5 places on each side of the door. Top,
bottom, and just under the 3 hinges are shimmed and nailed (or the
corresponding area across from the hinges). I do not fasten the top jamb to
the header, rather just rely on casing to hold it firm.
Hinge screws only extend into the jamb, however, hinge to jamb and hinge
to door screws often come stripped from the factory. The installer may have
stripped them too, but usually the installer doesn't mess with the hinge
screws on a pre hung door unless they are loose. In either case, adding
longer screws of a similiar finish (2" to 2 1/2" screws are usually long
enough) through the hinge and into the jack stud will hold the door where
you want it.
Most problems you can have with a door can be fixed with just placing a
screw in the right hinge. Don't bother with adjusting the strike unless
absolutely necessary, it's gonna need adjusting again if the problem is not
fixed. --dave









"Thomas G. Marshall" . com
wrote in message news:1xCOf.601$eJ1.498@trndny05...

One of my interior doors has the top hinge with all the screws more or
less "floating in space". It has caused the door to sag a little. This
seems odd to me, since the other 2 hinges are solid as rocks, and yet
there is enough flex in a door somehow to bend or sag just "enough" to not
close perfectly.

Odd.

In *any* case, I am in need of understanding the *right* way a door should
have been hung: All the parts, what they're supposed to be screwed to, are
the hinge screws supposed to extend into the studs, what parts of the door
frame/jamb/whatever are connected to what.

No one I know is "sure", and I would like to know what /your/ opinion of a
good website or other source is.

I'm checking the other doors in the house, and am (I must be thick) now
wondering if this might worsen or outright /cause/ the strike-plate
repositioning I'm always going through.

--
Sometimes life just sucks, and then you live.

Thomas G. Marshall wrote:
One of my interior doors has the top hinge with all the screws more or less
"floating in space". It has caused the door to sag a little. This seems
odd to me, since the other 2 hinges are solid as rocks, and yet there is
enough flex in a door somehow to bend or sag just "enough" to not close
perfectly.

Odd.

In *any* case, I am in need of understanding the *right* way a door should
have been hung: All the parts, what they're supposed to be screwed to, are
the hinge screws supposed to extend into the studs, what parts of the door
frame/jamb/whatever are connected to what.

From your description it sounds to me like the screws have stripped out
of the wood jamb. Very simple fix. Remove the offending screws, dip
some toothpicks in glue and jam them into the oversize screw holes.
Cut off the toothpicks flush with the mortised jamb (called a hinge
gain) and reattach the hinge leaf with the old screws (assuming the
heads aren't stripped as well).

There's no need for the screws to extend into the jamb unless it's a
security door.

R

I recommend 1/4 or 3/8" dowels glued into holes centered on the
stripped screw holes. Trim flush and reinstall the screws. Much more
secure than the toothpicks or matchsticks that are commonly used, and
it takes not much more time.
Bugs

I've dealt with the stripped out screw issue by doing one of these:

1. Drill out and insert a piece of dowel. Trim flush

or

2. Fill hole with water based wood putty. Let dry overnight.

Drill pilot hole, then insert the screw again, if it isn't damaged.

I have used the dowel technique in replacing butt plates and recoil
pads on rifle and shotgun stocks as well, but there isn't a lot of
strain involved there.

Once I simply dipped the offending screw in "Gorilla Glue" and put it
back in. Crude, but that worked as well!!

"professorpaul" wrote in message
oups.com...
I've dealt with the stripped out screw issue by doing one of these:

1. Drill out and insert a piece of dowel. Trim flush

or

2. Fill hole with water based wood putty. Let dry overnight.

Drill pilot hole, then insert the screw again, if it isn't damaged.

I have used the dowel technique in replacing butt plates and recoil
pads on rifle and shotgun stocks as well, but there isn't a lot of
strain involved there.

Once I simply dipped the offending screw in "Gorilla Glue" and put it
back in. Crude, but that worked as well!!

If the screw is stripped forget about plugging the hole. Put a 3" deck
screw in all the way into the stud.

Leon wrote:

If the screw is stripped forget about plugging the hole. Put a 3" deck
screw in all the way into the stud.

To one involved in the building trades, your advice is even worse than
Norm and his "put a few brads in it" or chocolate wood stain on
everything. Even if no one else noticed the silver screw head, it
would bother me just knowing it was there.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
ups.com...
Leon wrote:

If the screw is stripped forget about plugging the hole. Put a 3" deck
screw in all the way into the stud.

To one involved in the building trades, your advice is even worse than
Norm and his "put a few brads in it" or chocolate wood stain on
everything. Even if no one else noticed the silver screw head, it
would bother me just knowing it was there.

R


I posted the correct way to repair, With tooth picks or dowels you are
screwing into end grain. Its a temp fix.

Leon wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
Leon wrote:

If the screw is stripped forget about plugging the hole. Put a 3" deck
screw in all the way into the stud.

To one involved in the building trades, your advice is even worse than
Norm and his "put a few brads in it" or chocolate wood stain on
everything. Even if no one else noticed the silver screw head, it
would bother me just knowing it was there.


I posted the correct way to repair, With tooth picks or dowels you are
screwing into end grain. Its a temp fix.

Hey Leon. How is wood glued in an opening a "temp fix"? As far as the
end grain, that is why I counseled against using oversize dowels to
make the repair. But with glued toothpicks/matches essentially all of
the wood fibers are glued in place. Even if the wood grain is cut,
there won't be any weakening of the attachment - glues's stronger than
wood, right?

A couple of other points. Your original post had this: "The door is
typically already hung in the door jamb and the installer only has to
insure that the sides of the jamb are plumb and that the top of the
jamb is level. He uses longer screws to attach the jamb to 2x4 door
opening. He uses wedged shims between the door jamb and 2x4 to allow
for a tight fit in the opening."

An exterior door frequently has several of the hinge screws replaced
with longer screws for added security. It is not a standard procedure
for hanging an interior door to install the frame with screws, as your
initial comment would indicate. Where exactly are these screws located
that you're talking about? You mention the door is already hung - are
your screws counterbored and plugged in the face of the jamb? Or are
you suggesting that existing screws are either removed and replaced, or
that those longer screws are hidden behind the hinge leaf?
Counterboring and plugging can't be right. Hinge screw placement
shouldn't be too close to prevent splitting of the jamb, so it's not a
good idea to hide them behind the hinge leaf. If longer screws were
to be used the manufacturer would supply those longer, matching screws
and leave some of the hinge jamb screws out to receive them - I've
never seen that on an interior door. The standard way to install a
prehung door, or any interior door for that matter, is with a nail gun,
or lacking that, with finish nails and a hammer.

Your description of the function of the shims is also a bit misleading.
They are not there to make a "tight fit". The shims are there to
straighten out the jambs and, as you did mention, plumb the frame in
the opening.

The main issue I had with your later advice was the use of the deck
screw. If I saw someone installing one as a replacement in a hinge,
my comment would be along the lines of, "Are you #@&!%# kidding me?"
Even if the hinge is a satin nickel (which is becoming a more popular
finish, but nowhere near as common as a brass finish), why would you
use a deck screw? Because it's handy? My chisels are always handy and
I don't use them to open paint cans. Use the right screw.

The basic idea of any repair is to make it invisible. Your suggested
repair is not. At the least longer, matching screws should be used to
replace the stripped ones.

R

RicodJour said something like:
Bugs wrote:
I recommend 1/4 or 3/8" dowels glued into holes centered on the
stripped screw holes. Trim flush and reinstall the screws. Much more
secure than the toothpicks or matchsticks that are commonly used, and
it takes not much more time.

Pretty big screw holes to fit a 1/4" or 3/8" dowel. What makes you
think that drilling a larger hole and inserting a dowel makes it more
secure? A stripped screw hole is 1/16" or so oversize - that's all it
take for the screw to spin in the hole.

I'm also not sure how the relative strength of screwing into endgrain
would affect the overall strength of the connection. It's probably not
be a big deal in this instance, but pull out from endgrain is a lot
less than from face grain. Your way is all end grain.
Toothpicks/matchsticks preserves as much of the face grain as possible.

FWIW, when he previously mentioned this idea to me (for strikeplate
remounting) he specified /hardwood/ dowels, even though there is
comparatively very litttle stress on a strikeplate mount. Perhaps he meant
the same here. Perhaps hardwood would add enough strength. Though I
suspect that sidegrain of even cedar might beat the end grain of "hard"
hardwood.

Bugs, your idea for strikeplates, at least, worked very well.



Your way works, but there's an extra operation (drilling) and a
specific piece of wood is required. The other technique can be used
with almost anything on hand. Slivers of wood shaved off some scrap
with a utility knife works just as well as toothpicks.

R



--
Framsticks. 3D Artificial Life evolution. You can see the creatures that
evolve and how they interact, hunt, swim, etc. (Unaffiliated with me).
http://www.frams.alife.pl/

On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 14:25:01 GMT, "Thomas G. Marshall"
. com wrote:


One of my interior doors has the top hinge with all the screws more or less
"floating in space". It has caused the door to sag a little. This seems
odd to me, since the other 2 hinges are solid as rocks, and yet there is
enough flex in a door somehow to bend or sag just "enough" to not close
perfectly.

[the rest snipped, to eliminate the necessity of top posting, which
indexplicably drives some people nuts]

I recently had difficulty with a couple of pre-hungs I got at the
borg. Since I had also been hanging a couple of slabs in my own
jambsets I had been mortising my own hinges with screws I bought from
the same borg.

I noticed that the screws I bought separately were about ½ longer than
the prehung screws. I just popped a few of the separates in in place
of the prehung screws and everything pulled back in nicely.

The hinge screws--(they're #9--you can't find them with all the other
screws) are in bags of 20 or thereabouts near the butts.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
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