I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I wasn't
too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should have stacked
it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?) before screwing it onto the
deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and learn. The other problem I saw
was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or
the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of
cupping (ends turning up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the
thickness of a traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought
16' lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and
butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of space
between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle of the deck
surface - looks terrible.

LOL, I learned a lot.

As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of my
price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to decide
between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine.

Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar
versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before screwing them
to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar, versus the
DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with cedar?

Thanks!

On Sun, 5 May 2013 07:47:58 -0500, "AngryOldWhiteGuy"
wrote:

I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I wasn't
too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should have stacked
it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?)

Several months, perhaps.

before screwing it onto the
deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and learn. The other problem I saw
was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or
the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of
cupping (ends turning up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the
thickness of a traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought
16' lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and
butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of space
between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle of the deck
surface - looks terrible.

Most of the PT we see in these parts is Southern Yellow Pine. It's
strength is that it is somewhat resistant to rot already, and if
fairly stiff. But it cracks, splinters, cups, and twists to beat the
band. It just ain't pretty after a year outside.

LOL, I learned a lot.

As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of my
price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to decide
between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine.

My objection to cedar [and redwood] for decking is it's softness. If
it is a pool deck that will be mostly trod on with bare feet, then
cedar would be fine. Even a deck off the LR that will get light
use will probably not suffer too much. But if it is an entranceway,
or will enjoy a lot of traffic with shoes and clod hoppers from the
garden-- then I'd pass on those 2.

Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar
versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before screwing them
to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar, versus the
DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with cedar?

Cedar won't shrink as much and is less likely to split. but it will
need annual cleaning, sealing, and occasional sanding.

You might want to look into the composite stuff some more. Last
time I looked it was getting down to the price of good cedar-- and
takes a whole lot less maintenance.

How long will you be there?

And then there's Ipe, or mahogany. . . .

Jim

I don't have a deck and don't know squat about them, but I know a little about wood.

Wood shrinks as it dries. But, it's important to know that the reason is because it's the wood cell WALLS that get thinner and stiffer as the wood dries. The diameter of the hollow space inside the cells doesn't change; it's just the cell walls getting thinner that results in the wood shrinking.

The heavier and stronger hardwoods are heavier and stronger because they have smaller diameter wood cells, and that means they have more cell walls to add weight, increase strength and shrink as those cell walls dry. So, heavier and stronger woods would be expected to shrink more as they dry than lighter and weaker woods cuz they have more cells per square inch (when viewed from the end grain).

So, you'd expect less shrinkage from cedar than pine.

PS: You don't need to know the rest:

A tree's trunk consists primarily of two kinds of wood; the heartwood and the sapwood. In sapwood, the wood cells have passages through which water and nutrients can pass from one cell to the next. As the tree grows, resins produced by the tree (called "extractives") are deposited in the oldest sapwood cells closest to the middle of the tree trunk, and the passages in those oldest cells are sealed off. Once sealed off, those wood cells form the "heart wood" near the middle of the tree trunk. It's the extractives in the heart wood cells that give the heartwood both it's distinctive colour and in some species like cedar and redwood, a natural resistance to wood rot fungii.



Since the natural passages between wood cells in the heart wood are sealed off in every species, heart wood can't be effectively pressure treated because the preservatives cannot be forced into the heart wood by pressure. So, in any wood species, it's only the sapwood that can be pressure treated.

On 5/5/2013 9:50 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 07:47:58 -0500, "AngryOldWhiteGuy"
wrote:

I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I wasn't
too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should have stacked
it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?)

Several months, perhaps.

before screwing it onto the
deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and learn. The other problem I saw
was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or
the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of
cupping (ends turning up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the
thickness of a traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought
16' lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and
butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of space
between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle of the deck
surface - looks terrible.

Most of the PT we see in these parts is Southern Yellow Pine. It's
strength is that it is somewhat resistant to rot already, and if
fairly stiff. But it cracks, splinters, cups, and twists to beat the
band. It just ain't pretty after a year outside.


Our decking is 5/4" PT southern yellow pine. I bought higher quality
wood for less at a local lumber yard. It is about 7 years old and has
held up really well



LOL, I learned a lot.

As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of my
price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to decide
between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine.

My objection to cedar [and redwood] for decking is it's softness. If
it is a pool deck that will be mostly trod on with bare feet, then
cedar would be fine. Even a deck off the LR that will get light
use will probably not suffer too much. But if it is an entranceway,
or will enjoy a lot of traffic with shoes and clod hoppers from the
garden-- then I'd pass on those 2.

Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar
versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before screwing them
to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar, versus the
DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with cedar?

Cedar won't shrink as much and is less likely to split. but it will
need annual cleaning, sealing, and occasional sanding.

You might want to look into the composite stuff some more. Last
time I looked it was getting down to the price of good cedar-- and
takes a whole lot less maintenance.

How long will you be there?

And then there's Ipe, or mahogany. . . .

Jim

On 5/5/2013 11:29 AM, nestork wrote:
I don't have a deck and don't know squat about them, but I know a little
about wood.

Wood shrinks as it dries. But, it's important to know that the reason
is because it's the wood cell WALLS that get thinner and stiffer as the
wood dries. The diameter of the hollow space inside the cells doesn't
change; it's just the cell walls getting thinner that results in the
wood shrinking.

The heavier and stronger hardwoods are heavier and stronger because they
have smaller diameter wood cells, and that means they have more cell
walls to add weight, increase strength and shrink as the dries. So,
heavier and stronger woods would be expected to shrink more as they dry
than lighter and weaker woods.

So, you'd expect less shrinkage from cedar than pine.



I suspect part of problem is that the wood was cut when wet or not fully
dried. You will get differential shrinkage depending on the orientation
of the grain so percent shrinkage in width will be different than length
and if not all oriented in the same direction you will get warpage.

Guess the best thing to do is buy pt lumber stored indoors that has
dried enough to show defects. Don't buy the stuff sitting in the
elements outside.

On Sun, 05 May 2013 12:22:21 -0400, George
wrote:

On 5/5/2013 9:50 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 07:47:58 -0500, "AngryOldWhiteGuy"
wrote:

I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I wasn't
too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should have stacked
it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?)

Several months, perhaps.

before screwing it onto the
deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and learn. The other problem I saw
was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or
the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of
cupping (ends turning up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the
thickness of a traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought
16' lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and
butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of space
between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle of the deck
surface - looks terrible.

Most of the PT we see in these parts is Southern Yellow Pine. It's
strength is that it is somewhat resistant to rot already, and if
fairly stiff. But it cracks, splinters, cups, and twists to beat the
band. It just ain't pretty after a year outside.


Our decking is 5/4" PT southern yellow pine. I bought higher quality
wood for less at a local lumber yard. It is about 7 years old and has
held up really well



LOL, I learned a lot.

As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of my
price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to decide
between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine.

My objection to cedar [and redwood] for decking is it's softness. If
it is a pool deck that will be mostly trod on with bare feet, then
cedar would be fine. Even a deck off the LR that will get light
use will probably not suffer too much. But if it is an entranceway,
or will enjoy a lot of traffic with shoes and clod hoppers from the
garden-- then I'd pass on those 2.

Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar
versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before screwing them
to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar, versus the
DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with cedar?

Cedar won't shrink as much and is less likely to split. but it will
need annual cleaning, sealing, and occasional sanding.

You might want to look into the composite stuff some more. Last
time I looked it was getting down to the price of good cedar-- and
takes a whole lot less maintenance.

How long will you be there?

And then there's Ipe, or mahogany. . . .

Jim

The problem with MOST pressure treated wood is it is FAR from dry.
I've had it actually spray water out of it when cutting with a
circular say. GUARANTEED to shrink, warp, and split when you nail it
down in the sun.

On Sun, 05 May 2013 12:35:32 -0400, Frank
wrote:

On 5/5/2013 11:29 AM, nestork wrote:
I don't have a deck and don't know squat about them, but I know a little
about wood.

Wood shrinks as it dries. But, it's important to know that the reason
is because it's the wood cell WALLS that get thinner and stiffer as the
wood dries. The diameter of the hollow space inside the cells doesn't
change; it's just the cell walls getting thinner that results in the
wood shrinking.

The heavier and stronger hardwoods are heavier and stronger because they
have smaller diameter wood cells, and that means they have more cell
walls to add weight, increase strength and shrink as the dries. So,
heavier and stronger woods would be expected to shrink more as they dry
than lighter and weaker woods.

So, you'd expect less shrinkage from cedar than pine.



I suspect part of problem is that the wood was cut when wet or not fully
dried. You will get differential shrinkage depending on the orientation
of the grain so percent shrinkage in width will be different than length
and if not all oriented in the same direction you will get warpage.

Guess the best thing to do is buy pt lumber stored indoors that has
dried enough to show defects. Don't buy the stuff sitting in the
elements outside.
The problem is the chemicals in the PT wood make your wood moisture
tester lie though it's teeth

On Sun, 5 May 2013 07:47:58 -0500, "AngryOldWhiteGuy"
wrote:

The other problem I saw
was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or
the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of
cupping (ends turning up)

My understanding has been that if the crown is up, the lumber will not
cup up. I suppose it can happen, though.

Pic:

(grain, cupping and crown)

http://www.warlinepainting.ca/upload/Blog%20Images/deck-board-cuts.jpg

AngryOldWhiteGuy wrote:
I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I
wasn't too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should
have stacked it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?) before
screwing it onto the deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and
learn. The other problem I saw was that even though I oriented the
wood correctly based on the direction or the ring pattern visible at
the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of cupping (ends turning
up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the thickness of a
traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought 16'
lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and
butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of
space between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle
of the deck surface - looks terrible.
LOL, I learned a lot.

As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of
my price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to
decide between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine.

Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar
versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before
screwing them to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with
cedar, versus the DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with
cedar?

PT is soaking wet when you buy it, takes months to dry. During that time it
may turn into a pretzel; well, not quite but it frequently warps a lot. I
avoid it whenever I can and I sure wouldn't use it for a deck.

Don't know much about cedar except it is soft. That and that it will stain
badly from iron/non-stainless steel fastenings. Same with oak. I wouldn't
use cedar for a deck.

Southern yellow pine (not pressure treated SYP) is decent...hard and strong.

Someone mentioned ipe; I've never had occasion to use it but I have a credit
card sized one about 3/4" thick on my desk that I use as a paper weight.
IOW, hard, strong (VERY) and very durable.

Ipe gets my vote.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote
in message ...

I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I
found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few
bucks using shorter lengths and butting them together - with the shrinkage,
there's a fair bit of space between ends where they butted together - yeah,
in the middle of the deck surface - looks terrible.
. . . Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided
cedar versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before
screwing them to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar

Deck specialists recommend 3/8" air space between the butt ends of
deck boards to speed drying after rain and prevent early rot.
Cedar is widely preferred to PTL for deck boards: of course there are
distinct types of cedar (white and red to start.) Besides, "PTL" can
be any tree type. The OP sees pine, hereabouts we see spruce.
All timber should be dried on site (covered from rain, sides open to
permit wind through the stack) for as long as possible before use,
months if possible.
Any deck screw fastens cedar as well as PTL. The critical difference
is the driver. Impact drivers do not need pilot holes beforehand.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On 5/5/2013 1:46 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 05 May 2013 12:35:32 -0400, Frank
wrote:

On 5/5/2013 11:29 AM, nestork wrote:
I don't have a deck and don't know squat about them, but I know a little
about wood.

Wood shrinks as it dries. But, it's important to know that the reason
is because it's the wood cell WALLS that get thinner and stiffer as the
wood dries. The diameter of the hollow space inside the cells doesn't
change; it's just the cell walls getting thinner that results in the
wood shrinking.

The heavier and stronger hardwoods are heavier and stronger because they
have smaller diameter wood cells, and that means they have more cell
walls to add weight, increase strength and shrink as the dries. So,
heavier and stronger woods would be expected to shrink more as they dry
than lighter and weaker woods.

So, you'd expect less shrinkage from cedar than pine.



I suspect part of problem is that the wood was cut when wet or not fully
dried. You will get differential shrinkage depending on the orientation
of the grain so percent shrinkage in width will be different than length
and if not all oriented in the same direction you will get warpage.

Guess the best thing to do is buy pt lumber stored indoors that has
dried enough to show defects. Don't buy the stuff sitting in the
elements outside.
The problem is the chemicals in the PT wood make your wood moisture
tester lie though it's teeth


I'm thinking that pressure treating would add back in moisture but if
the wood was dry and warped before treatment, the treatment should not
make it warp when dried again. I'm also assuming that you do not
pressure treat wet wood.

how many times does the OP want to replace their deck?

Composites appear to last near forever, but cost more

However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to years and the buyer
will expect its replaced again.

So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs

Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper

On 5/5/2013 4:07 PM, bob haller wrote:
how many times does the OP want to replace their deck?

Composites appear to last near forever, but cost more

However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to years and the buyer
will expect its replaced again.

So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs

Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper


I just went through two neighbors open houses for sale and made the same
observation.

On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

Composites appear to last near forever, but cost more


'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest.

However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to years and the buyer
will expect its replaced again.


I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to years".

So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs


Why?

Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper

Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh.

Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will
happen in the future, as bob often mentions.

On May 5, 4:21*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

Composites appear to last near forever, but cost more

'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest.

However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to *years and the buyer
will expect its replaced again.

I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to *years".

So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs

Why?

Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper

Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh.

Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will
happen in the future, as bob often mentions.

90% of all home buyers want a ready to move in home with no repairs
wanted....

home with worn decks, and anything else elminates 90% of the
shoppers....

that leaves 10% possible buyers who will all want a cheap home.

hey if you want to get little for your home go right ahead

On 5/5/2013 4:37 PM, bob haller wrote:
On May 5, 4:21 pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

Composites appear to last near forever, but cost more

'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest.

However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to years and the buyer
will expect its replaced again.

I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to years".

So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs

Why?

Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper

Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh.

Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will
happen in the future, as bob often mentions.

90% of all home buyers want a ready to move in home with no repairs
wanted....

home with worn decks, and anything else elminates 90% of the
shoppers....

that leaves 10% possible buyers who will all want a cheap home.

hey if you want to get little for your home go right ahead


Right now we are in a strong buyers market. You want your house to be
perfect when you sell it.

In a strong sellers market you can get away without fixing stuff up.
When my eldest bought his house, it needed repairs but he had to pay
list price and the seller had offers above list price but took my sons
because there were no contingencies.

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote
in message ...

I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I
found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few

I'm the OP.

I had eliminated the composite stuff because I read a lot of reviews
complaining of mold that would keep coming back, even after repeated
bleaching. I also read about other problems like flaking - for the price,
I'd expect zero maintenance.

Maybe I should reconsider the composite - does anyone know what that
composite is that they use for the beach benches in Florida - seems like if
it'd last there, it'd be OK anywhere.

Suggestions??

dadiOH wrote:
AngryOldWhiteGuy wrote:
I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I
wasn't too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should
have stacked it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?) before
screwing it onto the deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and
learn. The other problem I saw was that even though I oriented the
wood correctly based on the direction or the ring pattern visible at
the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of cupping (ends turning
up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the thickness of a
traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought 16'
lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and
butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of
space between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle
of the deck surface - looks terrible.
LOL, I learned a lot.

As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of
my price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to
decide between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine.

Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided
cedar versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before
screwing them to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with
cedar, versus the DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with
cedar?

PT is soaking wet when you buy it, takes months to dry. During that
time it may turn into a pretzel; well, not quite but it frequently
warps a lot. I avoid it whenever I can and I sure wouldn't use it
for a deck.
Don't know much about cedar except it is soft. That and that it will
stain badly from iron/non-stainless steel fastenings. Same with oak.
I wouldn't use cedar for a deck.

Southern yellow pine (not pressure treated SYP) is decent...hard and
strong.
Someone mentioned ipe; I've never had occasion to use it but I have a
credit card sized one about 3/4" thick on my desk that I use as a
paper weight. IOW, hard, strong (VERY) and very durable.

Ipe gets my vote.

Greenheart would be another possibility. Its life can be measured in
decades - as can ipe - and centuries.

Info on both...
http://www.durablewoodsguyana.com/woodspecies/index.php

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"AngryOldWhiteGuy"
writes:

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote
in message ...

I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I
found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few

I'm the OP.

I had eliminated the composite stuff because I read a lot of reviews
complaining of mold that would keep coming back, even after repeated
bleaching. I also read about other problems like flaking - for the price,
I'd expect zero maintenance.

Maybe I should reconsider the composite - does anyone know what that
composite is that they use for the beach benches in Florida - seems like if
it'd last there, it'd be OK anywhere.

Suggestions??

Mold? No more than any other material. Since there's nothing for mold
to feed on, I'd say less mold. Not that mold on a deck should be an
issue. I guess it depends on the amount of light you get.

Flaking? Never heard of it, and I haven't seen it in the 13 years my
deck has been in place.

Other than cleaning, (if you feel the need), there is no maintenance.

Reminds me, Sandy broke one of my deck boards.
I need to replace one.

Other than breakage, it looks to me like the deck will easily outlast
me and I've still got a few years to go.


--
Dan Espen

On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:37:45 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On May 5, 4:21*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

Composites appear to last near forever, but cost more

'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest.

However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to *years and the buyer
will expect its replaced again.

I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to *years".

So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs

Why?

Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper

Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh.

Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will
happen in the future, as bob often mentions.

90% of all home buyers want a ready to move in home with no repairs
wanted....

home with worn decks, and anything else elminates 90% of the
shoppers....

that leaves 10% possible buyers who will all want a cheap home.

hey if you want to get little for your home go right ahead

The least I ever made on a home was few grand. Never lost a penny on
any house I've owned in 4 states. ( 8 homes)

Some appreciation doubled in 18-24 months. I had buyers lined up in a
bidding war for a few.

Don't think I lost money in real estate, ever. Aside, I never lived in
Pittsburgh, where you might get taken by a buyer?

On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:37:45 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On May 5, 4:21*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

Composites appear to last near forever, but cost more

'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest.

However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to *years and the buyer
will expect its replaced again.

I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to *years".

So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs

Why?

Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper

Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh.

Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will
happen in the future, as bob often mentions.

90% of all home buyers want a ready to move in home with no repairs
wanted....


Except the 10% that don't care.

home with worn decks, and anything else elminates 90% of the
shoppers....


Sell the house to the other 10%. 90% of home buyers will never live
in Pittsburgh.

that leaves 10% possible buyers who will all want a cheap home.


10% of something is better than 90% on nothing.

hey if you want to get little for your home go right ahead

Did you?

On Sun, 05 May 2013 16:59:28 -0400, Frank
wrote:

On 5/5/2013 4:37 PM, bob haller wrote:
On May 5, 4:21 pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

Composites appear to last near forever, but cost more

'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest.

However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to years and the buyer
will expect its replaced again.

I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to years".

So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs

Why?

Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper

Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh.

Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will
happen in the future, as bob often mentions.

90% of all home buyers want a ready to move in home with no repairs
wanted....

home with worn decks, and anything else elminates 90% of the
shoppers....

that leaves 10% possible buyers who will all want a cheap home.

hey if you want to get little for your home go right ahead


Right now we are in a strong buyers market. You want your house to be
perfect when you sell it.

Maybe in Pittsburgh. It certainly seems to be turning here. They're
starting to build like crazy. I just counted eight lots sold in our
subdivision (of 24, I think). A neighbor just told us that the house
being built at the end of the street is going for $400K. I paid $210K
a year ago (for a house that sold for $370K in '07).

In a strong sellers market you can get away without fixing stuff up.
When my eldest bought his house, it needed repairs but he had to pay
list price and the seller had offers above list price but took my sons
because there were no contingencies.

Sure. I did a lot of work to my AL house last year, including having
the inside professionally painted. It "sold" for asking but I had to
least it to them for a year until they can get financing.

On Sun, 05 May 2013 17:25:12 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

"AngryOldWhiteGuy"
writes:

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote
in message ...

I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I
found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few

I'm the OP.

I had eliminated the composite stuff because I read a lot of reviews
complaining of mold that would keep coming back, even after repeated
bleaching. I also read about other problems like flaking - for the price,
I'd expect zero maintenance.

Maybe I should reconsider the composite - does anyone know what that
composite is that they use for the beach benches in Florida - seems like if
it'd last there, it'd be OK anywhere.

Suggestions??

Mold? No more than any other material. Since there's nothing for mold
to feed on, I'd say less mold. Not that mold on a deck should be an
issue. I guess it depends on the amount of light you get.

Flaking? Never heard of it, and I haven't seen it in the 13 years my
deck has been in place.

Other than cleaning, (if you feel the need), there is no maintenance.

Reminds me, Sandy broke one of my deck boards.
I need to replace one.

Other than breakage, it looks to me like the deck will easily outlast
me and I've still got a few years to go.

I'm considering composite to replace the boards on my deck (they'll
probably go another five years but look ugly). I'm told you can't
pressure wash them and there are issues with sagging. You're happy
with yours? I've never been a fan of PT decking.

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"AngryOldWhiteGuy"
writes:

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"AngryOldWhiteGuy"
wrote
in message ...

I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I
found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few

I'm the OP.

I had eliminated the composite stuff because I read a lot of reviews
complaining of mold that would keep coming back, even after repeated
bleaching. I also read about other problems like flaking - for the
price,
I'd expect zero maintenance.

Maybe I should reconsider the composite - does anyone know what that
composite is that they use for the beach benches in Florida - seems like
if
it'd last there, it'd be OK anywhere.

Suggestions??

Mold? No more than any other material. Since there's nothing for mold
to feed on, I'd say less mold. Not that mold on a deck should be an
issue. I guess it depends on the amount of light you get.

Flaking? Never heard of it, and I haven't seen it in the 13 years my
deck has been in place.

Other than cleaning, (if you feel the need), there is no maintenance.

Reminds me, Sandy broke one of my deck boards.
I need to replace one.

Other than breakage, it looks to me like the deck will easily outlast
me and I've still got a few years to go.


--
Dan Espen

What brand is it?

"AngryOldWhiteGuy"
writes:

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"AngryOldWhiteGuy"
writes:

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"AngryOldWhiteGuy"
wrote
in message ...

I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I
found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few

I'm the OP.

I had eliminated the composite stuff because I read a lot of reviews
complaining of mold that would keep coming back, even after repeated
bleaching. I also read about other problems like flaking - for the
price,
I'd expect zero maintenance.

Maybe I should reconsider the composite - does anyone know what that
composite is that they use for the beach benches in Florida - seems like
if
it'd last there, it'd be OK anywhere.

Suggestions??

Mold? No more than any other material. Since there's nothing for mold
to feed on, I'd say less mold. Not that mold on a deck should be an
issue. I guess it depends on the amount of light you get.

Flaking? Never heard of it, and I haven't seen it in the 13 years my
deck has been in place.

Other than cleaning, (if you feel the need), there is no maintenance.

Reminds me, Sandy broke one of my deck boards.
I need to replace one.

Other than breakage, it looks to me like the deck will easily outlast
me and I've still got a few years to go.
--
Dan Espen

What brand is it?

Timbertech, but I don't have any basis for recommending one brand over
another. They all look pretty good to me.

--
Dan Espen

On Sun, 5 May 2013 14:26:03 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

AngryOldWhiteGuy wrote:
I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I
wasn't too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should
have stacked it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?) before
screwing it onto the deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and
learn. The other problem I saw was that even though I oriented the
wood correctly based on the direction or the ring pattern visible at
the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of cupping (ends turning
up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the thickness of a
traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought 16'
lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and
butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of
space between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle
of the deck surface - looks terrible.
LOL, I learned a lot.

As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of
my price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to
decide between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine.

Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar
versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before
screwing them to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with
cedar, versus the DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with
cedar?

PT is soaking wet when you buy it, takes months to dry. During that time it
may turn into a pretzel; well, not quite but it frequently warps a lot. I
avoid it whenever I can and I sure wouldn't use it for a deck.

Don't know much about cedar except it is soft. That and that it will stain
badly from iron/non-stainless steel fastenings. Same with oak. I wouldn't
use cedar for a deck.

Southern yellow pine (not pressure treated SYP) is decent...hard and strong.

Someone mentioned ipe; I've never had occasion to use it but I have a credit
card sized one about 3/4" thick on my desk that I use as a paper weight.
IOW, hard, strong (VERY) and very durable.

Ipe gets my vote.

I had cedar on my front porch/deck for over 20 years - replaced it
with trex 2 summers ago - Rear deck is SYP -almost 15 years old now
and showing SOME deterioration.. Just replaced a 46 year old cedar
deck for an old friend last summer - over 80% of it was still in very
good shape, but the 20% that was bad required replacing the whole
deck. Of coarse it was replaced with - cedar. (Western Red Cedar, to
be exact)

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 07:47:58 -0500, "AngryOldWhiteGuy"
wrote:

I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and
I wasn't too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I
should have stacked it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?)

Several months, perhaps.


Right. If you, for example, buy a mess of PT fencing and put it up right
away, you might as well go ahead and paint it white because it will look
like Ozzie and Harriet's picket fence! That is, there will be 1/2" gaps
between the planks.

With wet PT, you've got to give it plenty of air circulation for an extended
period before using it.

But what's an "extended period?" you may ask.

I don't know. Several months - with periodic re-stacking - should be
sufficient, but here's an idea off the top of my head. Find a PT fence in
your neighborhood that's been up for a while. Measure the width, precisely
(down to 1/32"), of several boards. When YOUR stacked boards shrink to that
width, you should be pretty close.

On Sun, 05 May 2013 15:24:44 -0400, Frank
wrote:

On 5/5/2013 1:46 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 05 May 2013 12:35:32 -0400, Frank
wrote:

On 5/5/2013 11:29 AM, nestork wrote:
I don't have a deck and don't know squat about them, but I know a little
about wood.

Wood shrinks as it dries. But, it's important to know that the reason
is because it's the wood cell WALLS that get thinner and stiffer as the
wood dries. The diameter of the hollow space inside the cells doesn't
change; it's just the cell walls getting thinner that results in the
wood shrinking.

The heavier and stronger hardwoods are heavier and stronger because they
have smaller diameter wood cells, and that means they have more cell
walls to add weight, increase strength and shrink as the dries. So,
heavier and stronger woods would be expected to shrink more as they dry
than lighter and weaker woods.

So, you'd expect less shrinkage from cedar than pine.



I suspect part of problem is that the wood was cut when wet or not fully
dried. You will get differential shrinkage depending on the orientation
of the grain so percent shrinkage in width will be different than length
and if not all oriented in the same direction you will get warpage.

Guess the best thing to do is buy pt lumber stored indoors that has
dried enough to show defects. Don't buy the stuff sitting in the
elements outside.
The problem is the chemicals in the PT wood make your wood moisture
tester lie though it's teeth


I'm thinking that pressure treating would add back in moisture but if
the wood was dry and warped before treatment, the treatment should not
make it warp when dried again. I'm also assuming that you do not
pressure treat wet wood.
You don't pressure treat kiln dried wood. It is virtually always
'wet" wood before it is treated - and seldom dried before shipping
after.

On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:37:45 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On May 5, 4:21*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

Composites appear to last near forever, but cost more

'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest.

However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to *years and the buyer
will expect its replaced again.

I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to *years".

So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs

Why?

Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper

Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh.

Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will
happen in the future, as bob often mentions.

90% of all home buyers want a ready to move in home with no repairs
wanted....

home with worn decks, and anything else elminates 90% of the
shoppers....

that leaves 10% possible buyers who will all want a cheap home.

hey if you want to get little for your home go right ahead
Very seldom will the difference between a 10 year old deck and a new
cedar deck raise the price of the house by the cost of the deck. If
the deck is decent, solid, and safe - and good looking - it doesn't
affect the price much - in 5 or more years the new owner will likely
have an idea for a different deck arrangement anyway.

On Sun, 5 May 2013 16:04:55 -0500, "AngryOldWhiteGuy"
wrote:


"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote
in message ...

I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I
found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few

I'm the OP.

I had eliminated the composite stuff because I read a lot of reviews
complaining of mold that would keep coming back, even after repeated
bleaching. I also read about other problems like flaking - for the price,
I'd expect zero maintenance.

Maybe I should reconsider the composite - does anyone know what that
composite is that they use for the beach benches in Florida - seems like if
it'd last there, it'd be OK anywhere.

Suggestions??

I used Trex Transcend - and it washes up very easily and does NOT
support mold or moss. At less than double the cost of cedar I figured
it was a pretty decent deal.

On Sun, 05 May 2013 19:17:02 -0400, wrote:




I'm considering composite to replace the boards on my deck (they'll
probably go another five years but look ugly). I'm told you can't
pressure wash them and there are issues with sagging. You're happy
with yours? I've never been a fan of PT decking.

I considered it but went with Tiger Wood instead. In fact, I put a
coat of oil on it today to keep it looking good.
http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm

Not cheap, but will outlast me even if I live to be 100.

On Sun, 05 May 2013 22:48:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sun, 05 May 2013 19:17:02 -0400, wrote:




I'm considering composite to replace the boards on my deck (they'll
probably go another five years but look ugly). I'm told you can't
pressure wash them and there are issues with sagging. You're happy
with yours? I've never been a fan of PT decking.

I considered it but went with Tiger Wood instead. In fact, I put a
coat of oil on it today to keep it looking good.
http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm

Not cheap, but will outlast me even if I live to be 100.

Interesting. It's not all that outrageous, as long as it lasts. How
do you fasten it? It might be worthwhile doing the Kreg thing. Is
there any other maintenance needed?

On Sun, 05 May 2013 23:31:03 -0400, wrote:




I considered it but went with Tiger Wood instead. In fact, I put a
coat of oil on it today to keep it looking good.
http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm

Not cheap, but will outlast me even if I live to be 100.

Interesting. It's not all that outrageous, as long as it lasts. How
do you fasten it? It might be worthwhile doing the Kreg thing. Is
there any other maintenance needed?

For most, I used the ipe clips that go into the grooves. I had
problems getting some aligned and used the stainless steel screw that
leave a very small hole for the head, barely noticeable.

My deck is 12 x 16 so it used 25 boards. They were oversized an inch
so had to be trimmed. The extra inch was there in case of handling
dings.

On Mon, 06 May 2013 21:58:59 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sun, 05 May 2013 23:31:03 -0400, wrote:




I considered it but went with Tiger Wood instead. In fact, I put a
coat of oil on it today to keep it looking good.
http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm

Not cheap, but will outlast me even if I live to be 100.

Interesting. It's not all that outrageous, as long as it lasts. How
do you fasten it? It might be worthwhile doing the Kreg thing. Is
there any other maintenance needed?

For most, I used the ipe clips that go into the grooves. I had
problems getting some aligned and used the stainless steel screw that
leave a very small hole for the head, barely noticeable.

Trim head screws? Do they hold well enough to keep the boards from
warping? The Kreg system looks pretty good, too, but if the slot is
there, might as well use it. No issues with another surface for water
penetration?

My deck is 12 x 16 so it used 25 boards. They were oversized an inch
so had to be trimmed. The extra inch was there in case of handling
dings.

Inch long, I presume. For the 6" (5-1/2") boards it's a bit over
$4/sq ft., so it really isn't out of range, assuming it really does
last as advertised.

It really does look nice. I made the mistake of sending the link to
SWMBO.

On Tue, 07 May 2013 18:36:29 -0400, wrote:



http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm




Trim head screws? Do they hold well enough to keep the boards from
warping? The Kreg system looks pretty good, too, but if the slot is
there, might as well use it. No issues with another surface for water
penetration?

Been down for a year now. No cupping, warping, or anything else. I
used the screw that came with the clips. If you do go that way, I have
nearly a full box of the kit that I'll sell you very cheap. You need
a torx bit for the screws.

You can drill, countersink, then plug the holes but that seems like
too much work.





It really does look nice. I made the mistake of sending the link to
SWMBO.

The PT deck was over 20 years and was getting ugly. This looks first
class, has nice coloring. If you like the look of wood, it is worth
considering.

On Thu, 09 May 2013 22:39:13 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 07 May 2013 18:36:29 -0400, wrote:



http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm




Trim head screws? Do they hold well enough to keep the boards from
warping? The Kreg system looks pretty good, too, but if the slot is
there, might as well use it. No issues with another surface for water
penetration?

Been down for a year now. No cupping, warping, or anything else. I
used the screw that came with the clips. If you do go that way, I have
nearly a full box of the kit that I'll sell you very cheap. You need
a torx bit for the screws.

Good information. No, it'll be at least a couple of years before I
replace the deck. We're talking about expanding it across the back of
the house but it'll have to wait until the house is paid off.

You can drill, countersink, then plug the holes but that seems like
too much work.

For the few where space is tight, that's an option. I've also seen
fastening systems that come from the bottom. That's a possibility
since the deck is ~10' off the ground (no stairs, which is another
problem).





It really does look nice. I made the mistake of sending the link to
SWMBO.

The PT deck was over 20 years and was getting ugly. This looks first
class, has nice coloring. If you like the look of wood, it is worth
considering.

Exactly! Our house was built in '07 so the deck still has a way to go
before it has to be replaced. I like the tigerwood look. If it's not
a huge deal to maintain it looks to me to be the way to go. I'd have
to consider options for the railings, though. White paint would look
nice but it's a PITA to maintain. I suppose the framing is just PT?