|
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I wasn't
too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should have stacked it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?) before screwing it onto the deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and learn. The other problem I saw was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of cupping (ends turning up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the thickness of a traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of space between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle of the deck surface - looks terrible. LOL, I learned a lot. As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of my price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to decide between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine. Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before screwing them to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar, versus the DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with cedar? Thanks! |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 5 May 2013 07:47:58 -0500, "AngryOldWhiteGuy"
wrote: I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I wasn't too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should have stacked it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?) Several months, perhaps. before screwing it onto the deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and learn. The other problem I saw was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of cupping (ends turning up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the thickness of a traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of space between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle of the deck surface - looks terrible. Most of the PT we see in these parts is Southern Yellow Pine. It's strength is that it is somewhat resistant to rot already, and if fairly stiff. But it cracks, splinters, cups, and twists to beat the band. It just ain't pretty after a year outside. LOL, I learned a lot. As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of my price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to decide between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine. My objection to cedar [and redwood] for decking is it's softness. If it is a pool deck that will be mostly trod on with bare feet, then cedar would be fine. Even a deck off the LR that will get light use will probably not suffer too much. But if it is an entranceway, or will enjoy a lot of traffic with shoes and clod hoppers from the garden-- then I'd pass on those 2. Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before screwing them to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar, versus the DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with cedar? Cedar won't shrink as much and is less likely to split. but it will need annual cleaning, sealing, and occasional sanding. You might want to look into the composite stuff some more. Last time I looked it was getting down to the price of good cedar-- and takes a whole lot less maintenance. How long will you be there? And then there's Ipe, or mahogany. . . . Jim |
I don't have a deck and don't know squat about them, but I know a little about wood.
Wood shrinks as it dries. But, it's important to know that the reason is because it's the wood cell WALLS that get thinner and stiffer as the wood dries. The diameter of the hollow space inside the cells doesn't change; it's just the cell walls getting thinner that results in the wood shrinking. The heavier and stronger hardwoods are heavier and stronger because they have smaller diameter wood cells, and that means they have more cell walls to add weight, increase strength and shrink as those cell walls dry. So, heavier and stronger woods would be expected to shrink more as they dry than lighter and weaker woods cuz they have more cells per square inch (when viewed from the end grain). So, you'd expect less shrinkage from cedar than pine. PS: You don't need to know the rest: A tree's trunk consists primarily of two kinds of wood; the heartwood and the sapwood. In sapwood, the wood cells have passages through which water and nutrients can pass from one cell to the next. As the tree grows, resins produced by the tree (called "extractives") are deposited in the oldest sapwood cells closest to the middle of the tree trunk, and the passages in those oldest cells are sealed off. Once sealed off, those wood cells form the "heart wood" near the middle of the tree trunk. It's the extractives in the heart wood cells that give the heartwood both it's distinctive colour and in some species like cedar and redwood, a natural resistance to wood rot fungii.  Since the natural passages between wood cells in the heart wood are sealed off in every species, heart wood can't be effectively pressure treated because the preservatives cannot be forced into the heart wood by pressure. So, in any wood species, it's only the sapwood that can be pressure treated. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On 5/5/2013 9:50 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 07:47:58 -0500, "AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote: I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I wasn't too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should have stacked it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?) Several months, perhaps. before screwing it onto the deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and learn. The other problem I saw was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of cupping (ends turning up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the thickness of a traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of space between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle of the deck surface - looks terrible. Most of the PT we see in these parts is Southern Yellow Pine. It's strength is that it is somewhat resistant to rot already, and if fairly stiff. But it cracks, splinters, cups, and twists to beat the band. It just ain't pretty after a year outside. Our decking is 5/4" PT southern yellow pine. I bought higher quality wood for less at a local lumber yard. It is about 7 years old and has held up really well LOL, I learned a lot. As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of my price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to decide between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine. My objection to cedar [and redwood] for decking is it's softness. If it is a pool deck that will be mostly trod on with bare feet, then cedar would be fine. Even a deck off the LR that will get light use will probably not suffer too much. But if it is an entranceway, or will enjoy a lot of traffic with shoes and clod hoppers from the garden-- then I'd pass on those 2. Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before screwing them to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar, versus the DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with cedar? Cedar won't shrink as much and is less likely to split. but it will need annual cleaning, sealing, and occasional sanding. You might want to look into the composite stuff some more. Last time I looked it was getting down to the price of good cedar-- and takes a whole lot less maintenance. How long will you be there? And then there's Ipe, or mahogany. . . . Jim |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On 5/5/2013 11:29 AM, nestork wrote:
I don't have a deck and don't know squat about them, but I know a little about wood. Wood shrinks as it dries. But, it's important to know that the reason is because it's the wood cell WALLS that get thinner and stiffer as the wood dries. The diameter of the hollow space inside the cells doesn't change; it's just the cell walls getting thinner that results in the wood shrinking. The heavier and stronger hardwoods are heavier and stronger because they have smaller diameter wood cells, and that means they have more cell walls to add weight, increase strength and shrink as the dries. So, heavier and stronger woods would be expected to shrink more as they dry than lighter and weaker woods. So, you'd expect less shrinkage from cedar than pine. I suspect part of problem is that the wood was cut when wet or not fully dried. You will get differential shrinkage depending on the orientation of the grain so percent shrinkage in width will be different than length and if not all oriented in the same direction you will get warpage. Guess the best thing to do is buy pt lumber stored indoors that has dried enough to show defects. Don't buy the stuff sitting in the elements outside. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 05 May 2013 12:22:21 -0400, George
wrote: On 5/5/2013 9:50 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote: On Sun, 5 May 2013 07:47:58 -0500, "AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote: I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I wasn't too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should have stacked it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?) Several months, perhaps. before screwing it onto the deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and learn. The other problem I saw was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of cupping (ends turning up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the thickness of a traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of space between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle of the deck surface - looks terrible. Most of the PT we see in these parts is Southern Yellow Pine. It's strength is that it is somewhat resistant to rot already, and if fairly stiff. But it cracks, splinters, cups, and twists to beat the band. It just ain't pretty after a year outside. Our decking is 5/4" PT southern yellow pine. I bought higher quality wood for less at a local lumber yard. It is about 7 years old and has held up really well LOL, I learned a lot. As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of my price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to decide between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine. My objection to cedar [and redwood] for decking is it's softness. If it is a pool deck that will be mostly trod on with bare feet, then cedar would be fine. Even a deck off the LR that will get light use will probably not suffer too much. But if it is an entranceway, or will enjoy a lot of traffic with shoes and clod hoppers from the garden-- then I'd pass on those 2. Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before screwing them to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar, versus the DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with cedar? Cedar won't shrink as much and is less likely to split. but it will need annual cleaning, sealing, and occasional sanding. You might want to look into the composite stuff some more. Last time I looked it was getting down to the price of good cedar-- and takes a whole lot less maintenance. How long will you be there? And then there's Ipe, or mahogany. . . . Jim The problem with MOST pressure treated wood is it is FAR from dry. I've had it actually spray water out of it when cutting with a circular say. GUARANTEED to shrink, warp, and split when you nail it down in the sun. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 05 May 2013 12:35:32 -0400, Frank
wrote: On 5/5/2013 11:29 AM, nestork wrote: I don't have a deck and don't know squat about them, but I know a little about wood. Wood shrinks as it dries. But, it's important to know that the reason is because it's the wood cell WALLS that get thinner and stiffer as the wood dries. The diameter of the hollow space inside the cells doesn't change; it's just the cell walls getting thinner that results in the wood shrinking. The heavier and stronger hardwoods are heavier and stronger because they have smaller diameter wood cells, and that means they have more cell walls to add weight, increase strength and shrink as the dries. So, heavier and stronger woods would be expected to shrink more as they dry than lighter and weaker woods. So, you'd expect less shrinkage from cedar than pine. I suspect part of problem is that the wood was cut when wet or not fully dried. You will get differential shrinkage depending on the orientation of the grain so percent shrinkage in width will be different than length and if not all oriented in the same direction you will get warpage. Guess the best thing to do is buy pt lumber stored indoors that has dried enough to show defects. Don't buy the stuff sitting in the elements outside. The problem is the chemicals in the PT wood make your wood moisture tester lie though it's teeth |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 5 May 2013 07:47:58 -0500, "AngryOldWhiteGuy"
wrote: The other problem I saw was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of cupping (ends turning up) My understanding has been that if the crown is up, the lumber will not cup up. I suppose it can happen, though. Pic: (grain, cupping and crown) http://www.warlinepainting.ca/upload/Blog%20Images/deck-board-cuts.jpg |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
AngryOldWhiteGuy wrote:
I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I wasn't too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should have stacked it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?) before screwing it onto the deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and learn. The other problem I saw was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of cupping (ends turning up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the thickness of a traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of space between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle of the deck surface - looks terrible. LOL, I learned a lot. As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of my price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to decide between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine. Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before screwing them to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar, versus the DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with cedar? PT is soaking wet when you buy it, takes months to dry. During that time it may turn into a pretzel; well, not quite but it frequently warps a lot. I avoid it whenever I can and I sure wouldn't use it for a deck. Don't know much about cedar except it is soft. That and that it will stain badly from iron/non-stainless steel fastenings. Same with oak. I wouldn't use cedar for a deck. Southern yellow pine (not pressure treated SYP) is decent...hard and strong. Someone mentioned ipe; I've never had occasion to use it but I have a credit card sized one about 3/4" thick on my desk that I use as a paper weight. IOW, hard, strong (VERY) and very durable. Ipe gets my vote. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
"AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote
in message ... I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of space between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle of the deck surface - looks terrible. . . . Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before screwing them to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar Deck specialists recommend 3/8" air space between the butt ends of deck boards to speed drying after rain and prevent early rot. Cedar is widely preferred to PTL for deck boards: of course there are distinct types of cedar (white and red to start.) Besides, "PTL" can be any tree type. The OP sees pine, hereabouts we see spruce. All timber should be dried on site (covered from rain, sides open to permit wind through the stack) for as long as possible before use, months if possible. Any deck screw fastens cedar as well as PTL. The critical difference is the driver. Impact drivers do not need pilot holes beforehand. -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
|
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
how many times does the OP want to replace their deck?
Composites appear to last near forever, but cost mo( However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to years and the buyer will expect its replaced again. So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs:( Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On 5/5/2013 4:07 PM, bob haller wrote:
how many times does the OP want to replace their deck? Composites appear to last near forever, but cost mo( However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to years and the buyer will expect its replaced again. So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs:( Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper I just went through two neighbors open houses for sale and made the same observation. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote: Composites appear to last near forever, but cost mo( 'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest. However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to years and the buyer will expect its replaced again. I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to years". So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs:( Why? Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh. Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will happen in the future, as bob often mentions. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On May 5, 4:21*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote: Composites appear to last near forever, but cost mo( 'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest. However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to *years and the buyer will expect its replaced again. I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to *years". So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs:( Why? Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh. Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will happen in the future, as bob often mentions. 90% of all home buyers want a ready to move in home with no repairs wanted.... home with worn decks, and anything else elminates 90% of the shoppers.... that leaves 10% possible buyers who will all want a cheap home. hey if you want to get little for your home go right ahead:) |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On 5/5/2013 4:37 PM, bob haller wrote:
On May 5, 4:21 pm, Oren wrote: On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote: Composites appear to last near forever, but cost mo( 'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest. However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to years and the buyer will expect its replaced again. I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to years". So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs:( Why? Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh. Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will happen in the future, as bob often mentions. 90% of all home buyers want a ready to move in home with no repairs wanted.... home with worn decks, and anything else elminates 90% of the shoppers.... that leaves 10% possible buyers who will all want a cheap home. hey if you want to get little for your home go right ahead:) Right now we are in a strong buyers market. You want your house to be perfect when you sell it. In a strong sellers market you can get away without fixing stuff up. When my eldest bought his house, it needed repairs but he had to pay list price and the seller had offers above list price but took my sons because there were no contingencies. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
"Don Phillipson" wrote in message ... "AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote in message ... I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few I'm the OP. I had eliminated the composite stuff because I read a lot of reviews complaining of mold that would keep coming back, even after repeated bleaching. I also read about other problems like flaking - for the price, I'd expect zero maintenance. Maybe I should reconsider the composite - does anyone know what that composite is that they use for the beach benches in Florida - seems like if it'd last there, it'd be OK anywhere. Suggestions?? |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
dadiOH wrote:
AngryOldWhiteGuy wrote: I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I wasn't too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should have stacked it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?) before screwing it onto the deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and learn. The other problem I saw was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of cupping (ends turning up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the thickness of a traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of space between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle of the deck surface - looks terrible. LOL, I learned a lot. As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of my price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to decide between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine. Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before screwing them to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar, versus the DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with cedar? PT is soaking wet when you buy it, takes months to dry. During that time it may turn into a pretzel; well, not quite but it frequently warps a lot. I avoid it whenever I can and I sure wouldn't use it for a deck. Don't know much about cedar except it is soft. That and that it will stain badly from iron/non-stainless steel fastenings. Same with oak. I wouldn't use cedar for a deck. Southern yellow pine (not pressure treated SYP) is decent...hard and strong. Someone mentioned ipe; I've never had occasion to use it but I have a credit card sized one about 3/4" thick on my desk that I use as a paper weight. IOW, hard, strong (VERY) and very durable. Ipe gets my vote. Greenheart would be another possibility. Its life can be measured in decades - as can ipe - and centuries. Info on both... http://www.durablewoodsguyana.com/woodspecies/index.php -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
"AngryOldWhiteGuy"
writes: "Don Phillipson" wrote in message ... "AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote in message ... I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few I'm the OP. I had eliminated the composite stuff because I read a lot of reviews complaining of mold that would keep coming back, even after repeated bleaching. I also read about other problems like flaking - for the price, I'd expect zero maintenance. Maybe I should reconsider the composite - does anyone know what that composite is that they use for the beach benches in Florida - seems like if it'd last there, it'd be OK anywhere. Suggestions?? Mold? No more than any other material. Since there's nothing for mold to feed on, I'd say less mold. Not that mold on a deck should be an issue. I guess it depends on the amount of light you get. Flaking? Never heard of it, and I haven't seen it in the 13 years my deck has been in place. Other than cleaning, (if you feel the need), there is no maintenance. Reminds me, Sandy broke one of my deck boards. I need to replace one. Other than breakage, it looks to me like the deck will easily outlast me and I've still got a few years to go. -- Dan Espen |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:37:45 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote: On May 5, 4:21*pm, Oren wrote: On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote: Composites appear to last near forever, but cost mo( 'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest. However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to *years and the buyer will expect its replaced again. I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to *years". So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs:( Why? Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh. Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will happen in the future, as bob often mentions. 90% of all home buyers want a ready to move in home with no repairs wanted.... home with worn decks, and anything else elminates 90% of the shoppers.... that leaves 10% possible buyers who will all want a cheap home. hey if you want to get little for your home go right ahead:) The least I ever made on a home was few grand. Never lost a penny on any house I've owned in 4 states. ( 8 homes) Some appreciation doubled in 18-24 months. I had buyers lined up in a bidding war for a few. Don't think I lost money in real estate, ever. Aside, I never lived in Pittsburgh, where you might get taken by a buyer? |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:37:45 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote: On May 5, 4:21*pm, Oren wrote: On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote: Composites appear to last near forever, but cost mo( 'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest. However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to *years and the buyer will expect its replaced again. I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to *years". So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs:( Why? Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh. Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will happen in the future, as bob often mentions. 90% of all home buyers want a ready to move in home with no repairs wanted.... Except the 10% that don't care. home with worn decks, and anything else elminates 90% of the shoppers.... Sell the house to the other 10%. 90% of home buyers will never live in Pittsburgh. that leaves 10% possible buyers who will all want a cheap home. 10% of something is better than 90% on nothing. hey if you want to get little for your home go right ahead:) Did you? |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 05 May 2013 16:59:28 -0400, Frank
wrote: On 5/5/2013 4:37 PM, bob haller wrote: On May 5, 4:21 pm, Oren wrote: On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote: Composites appear to last near forever, but cost mo( 'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest. However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to years and the buyer will expect its replaced again. I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to years". So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs:( Why? Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh. Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will happen in the future, as bob often mentions. 90% of all home buyers want a ready to move in home with no repairs wanted.... home with worn decks, and anything else elminates 90% of the shoppers.... that leaves 10% possible buyers who will all want a cheap home. hey if you want to get little for your home go right ahead:) Right now we are in a strong buyers market. You want your house to be perfect when you sell it. Maybe in Pittsburgh. It certainly seems to be turning here. They're starting to build like crazy. I just counted eight lots sold in our subdivision (of 24, I think). A neighbor just told us that the house being built at the end of the street is going for $400K. I paid $210K a year ago (for a house that sold for $370K in '07). In a strong sellers market you can get away without fixing stuff up. When my eldest bought his house, it needed repairs but he had to pay list price and the seller had offers above list price but took my sons because there were no contingencies. Sure. I did a lot of work to my AL house last year, including having the inside professionally painted. It "sold" for asking but I had to least it to them for a year until they can get financing. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 05 May 2013 17:25:12 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote: "AngryOldWhiteGuy" writes: "Don Phillipson" wrote in message ... "AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote in message ... I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few I'm the OP. I had eliminated the composite stuff because I read a lot of reviews complaining of mold that would keep coming back, even after repeated bleaching. I also read about other problems like flaking - for the price, I'd expect zero maintenance. Maybe I should reconsider the composite - does anyone know what that composite is that they use for the beach benches in Florida - seems like if it'd last there, it'd be OK anywhere. Suggestions?? Mold? No more than any other material. Since there's nothing for mold to feed on, I'd say less mold. Not that mold on a deck should be an issue. I guess it depends on the amount of light you get. Flaking? Never heard of it, and I haven't seen it in the 13 years my deck has been in place. Other than cleaning, (if you feel the need), there is no maintenance. Reminds me, Sandy broke one of my deck boards. I need to replace one. Other than breakage, it looks to me like the deck will easily outlast me and I've still got a few years to go. I'm considering composite to replace the boards on my deck (they'll probably go another five years but look ugly). I'm told you can't pressure wash them and there are issues with sagging. You're happy with yours? I've never been a fan of PT decking. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
"Dan Espen" wrote in message ... "AngryOldWhiteGuy" writes: "Don Phillipson" wrote in message ... "AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote in message ... I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few I'm the OP. I had eliminated the composite stuff because I read a lot of reviews complaining of mold that would keep coming back, even after repeated bleaching. I also read about other problems like flaking - for the price, I'd expect zero maintenance. Maybe I should reconsider the composite - does anyone know what that composite is that they use for the beach benches in Florida - seems like if it'd last there, it'd be OK anywhere. Suggestions?? Mold? No more than any other material. Since there's nothing for mold to feed on, I'd say less mold. Not that mold on a deck should be an issue. I guess it depends on the amount of light you get. Flaking? Never heard of it, and I haven't seen it in the 13 years my deck has been in place. Other than cleaning, (if you feel the need), there is no maintenance. Reminds me, Sandy broke one of my deck boards. I need to replace one. Other than breakage, it looks to me like the deck will easily outlast me and I've still got a few years to go. -- Dan Espen What brand is it? |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
"AngryOldWhiteGuy"
writes: "Dan Espen" wrote in message ... "AngryOldWhiteGuy" writes: "Don Phillipson" wrote in message ... "AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote in message ... I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few I'm the OP. I had eliminated the composite stuff because I read a lot of reviews complaining of mold that would keep coming back, even after repeated bleaching. I also read about other problems like flaking - for the price, I'd expect zero maintenance. Maybe I should reconsider the composite - does anyone know what that composite is that they use for the beach benches in Florida - seems like if it'd last there, it'd be OK anywhere. Suggestions?? Mold? No more than any other material. Since there's nothing for mold to feed on, I'd say less mold. Not that mold on a deck should be an issue. I guess it depends on the amount of light you get. Flaking? Never heard of it, and I haven't seen it in the 13 years my deck has been in place. Other than cleaning, (if you feel the need), there is no maintenance. Reminds me, Sandy broke one of my deck boards. I need to replace one. Other than breakage, it looks to me like the deck will easily outlast me and I've still got a few years to go. -- Dan Espen What brand is it? Timbertech, but I don't have any basis for recommending one brand over another. They all look pretty good to me. -- Dan Espen |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 5 May 2013 14:26:03 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote: AngryOldWhiteGuy wrote: I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I wasn't too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should have stacked it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?) before screwing it onto the deck joists - my mistake, I guess, live and learn. The other problem I saw was that even though I oriented the wood correctly based on the direction or the ring pattern visible at the end of the board, I saw a fair amount of cupping (ends turning up) - maybe that's due to the 5\4 thickness versus the thickness of a traditional 2 x 6. And, I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few bucks using shorter lengths and butting them together - with the shrinkage, there's a fair bit of space between ends where they butted together - yeah, in the middle of the deck surface - looks terrible. LOL, I learned a lot. As to replacing the decking - composite or plastic decking is out of my price range - I was going to use 16' 2 x 6s - and I'm trying to decide between PT pine or cedar - cedar prices out at 2X PT pine. Will I expreience the same amount of shrinkage with smooth sided cedar versus PT pine? Would I need to let either of them dry before screwing them to the joists? Any special type of screw to use with cedar, versus the DeckScrews I used on the PT pine, if I go with cedar? PT is soaking wet when you buy it, takes months to dry. During that time it may turn into a pretzel; well, not quite but it frequently warps a lot. I avoid it whenever I can and I sure wouldn't use it for a deck. Don't know much about cedar except it is soft. That and that it will stain badly from iron/non-stainless steel fastenings. Same with oak. I wouldn't use cedar for a deck. Southern yellow pine (not pressure treated SYP) is decent...hard and strong. Someone mentioned ipe; I've never had occasion to use it but I have a credit card sized one about 3/4" thick on my desk that I use as a paper weight. IOW, hard, strong (VERY) and very durable. Ipe gets my vote. I had cedar on my front porch/deck for over 20 years - replaced it with trex 2 summers ago - Rear deck is SYP -almost 15 years old now and showing SOME deterioration.. Just replaced a 46 year old cedar deck for an old friend last summer - over 80% of it was still in very good shape, but the 20% that was bad required replacing the whole deck. Of coarse it was replaced with - cedar. (Western Red Cedar, to be exact) |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 07:47:58 -0500, "AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote: I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck and I wasn't too happy with how much the decking shrunk - I guess I should have stacked it outside to air dry for a while (week or two?) Several months, perhaps. Right. If you, for example, buy a mess of PT fencing and put it up right away, you might as well go ahead and paint it white because it will look like Ozzie and Harriet's picket fence! That is, there will be 1/2" gaps between the planks. With wet PT, you've got to give it plenty of air circulation for an extended period before using it. But what's an "extended period?" you may ask. I don't know. Several months - with periodic re-stacking - should be sufficient, but here's an idea off the top of my head. Find a PT fence in your neighborhood that's been up for a while. Measure the width, precisely (down to 1/32"), of several boards. When YOUR stacked boards shrink to that width, you should be pretty close. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:37:45 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote: On May 5, 4:21*pm, Oren wrote: On Sun, 5 May 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote: Composites appear to last near forever, but cost mo( 'cause composite trees do not yield a harvest. However replace your deck now and sell in 8 to *years and the buyer will expect its replaced again. I couldn't care less what a buyer expected "in 8 to *years". So if you plan on selling within 10 years double the costs:( Why? Or be prepared that your home will be classified a low cost fixer upper Why? Not everybody resides in Pittsburgh. Yes folks! Be sure you DISCLOSE everything that ever happened or will happen in the future, as bob often mentions. 90% of all home buyers want a ready to move in home with no repairs wanted.... home with worn decks, and anything else elminates 90% of the shoppers.... that leaves 10% possible buyers who will all want a cheap home. hey if you want to get little for your home go right ahead:) Very seldom will the difference between a 10 year old deck and a new cedar deck raise the price of the house by the cost of the deck. If the deck is decent, solid, and safe - and good looking - it doesn't affect the price much - in 5 or more years the new owner will likely have an idea for a different deck arrangement anyway. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 5 May 2013 16:04:55 -0500, "AngryOldWhiteGuy"
wrote: "Don Phillipson" wrote in message ... "AngryOldWhiteGuy" wrote in message ... I used hand-picked 5\4 x 6 PT pine decking to resurface my deck . . . I found that I should have bought 16' lengths versus trying to save a few I'm the OP. I had eliminated the composite stuff because I read a lot of reviews complaining of mold that would keep coming back, even after repeated bleaching. I also read about other problems like flaking - for the price, I'd expect zero maintenance. Maybe I should reconsider the composite - does anyone know what that composite is that they use for the beach benches in Florida - seems like if it'd last there, it'd be OK anywhere. Suggestions?? I used Trex Transcend - and it washes up very easily and does NOT support mold or moss. At less than double the cost of cedar I figured it was a pretty decent deal. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 05 May 2013 19:17:02 -0400, wrote:
I'm considering composite to replace the boards on my deck (they'll probably go another five years but look ugly). I'm told you can't pressure wash them and there are issues with sagging. You're happy with yours? I've never been a fan of PT decking. I considered it but went with Tiger Wood instead. In fact, I put a coat of oil on it today to keep it looking good. http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm Not cheap, but will outlast me even if I live to be 100. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 05 May 2013 22:48:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 05 May 2013 19:17:02 -0400, wrote: I'm considering composite to replace the boards on my deck (they'll probably go another five years but look ugly). I'm told you can't pressure wash them and there are issues with sagging. You're happy with yours? I've never been a fan of PT decking. I considered it but went with Tiger Wood instead. In fact, I put a coat of oil on it today to keep it looking good. http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm Not cheap, but will outlast me even if I live to be 100. Interesting. It's not all that outrageous, as long as it lasts. How do you fasten it? It might be worthwhile doing the Kreg thing. Is there any other maintenance needed? |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Sun, 05 May 2013 23:31:03 -0400, wrote:
I considered it but went with Tiger Wood instead. In fact, I put a coat of oil on it today to keep it looking good. http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm Not cheap, but will outlast me even if I live to be 100. Interesting. It's not all that outrageous, as long as it lasts. How do you fasten it? It might be worthwhile doing the Kreg thing. Is there any other maintenance needed? For most, I used the ipe clips that go into the grooves. I had problems getting some aligned and used the stainless steel screw that leave a very small hole for the head, barely noticeable. My deck is 12 x 16 so it used 25 boards. They were oversized an inch so had to be trimmed. The extra inch was there in case of handling dings. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Mon, 06 May 2013 21:58:59 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 05 May 2013 23:31:03 -0400, wrote: I considered it but went with Tiger Wood instead. In fact, I put a coat of oil on it today to keep it looking good. http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm Not cheap, but will outlast me even if I live to be 100. Interesting. It's not all that outrageous, as long as it lasts. How do you fasten it? It might be worthwhile doing the Kreg thing. Is there any other maintenance needed? For most, I used the ipe clips that go into the grooves. I had problems getting some aligned and used the stainless steel screw that leave a very small hole for the head, barely noticeable. Trim head screws? Do they hold well enough to keep the boards from warping? The Kreg system looks pretty good, too, but if the slot is there, might as well use it. No issues with another surface for water penetration? My deck is 12 x 16 so it used 25 boards. They were oversized an inch so had to be trimmed. The extra inch was there in case of handling dings. Inch long, I presume. For the 6" (5-1/2") boards it's a bit over $4/sq ft., so it really isn't out of range, assuming it really does last as advertised. It really does look nice. I made the mistake of sending the link to SWMBO. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Tue, 07 May 2013 18:36:29 -0400, wrote:
http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm Trim head screws? Do they hold well enough to keep the boards from warping? The Kreg system looks pretty good, too, but if the slot is there, might as well use it. No issues with another surface for water penetration? Been down for a year now. No cupping, warping, or anything else. I used the screw that came with the clips. If you do go that way, I have nearly a full box of the kit that I'll sell you very cheap. You need a torx bit for the screws. You can drill, countersink, then plug the holes but that seems like too much work. It really does look nice. I made the mistake of sending the link to SWMBO. The PT deck was over 20 years and was getting ugly. This looks first class, has nice coloring. If you like the look of wood, it is worth considering. |
PT pine shrinkage versus smooth sided cedar?
On Thu, 09 May 2013 22:39:13 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 May 2013 18:36:29 -0400, wrote: http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm Trim head screws? Do they hold well enough to keep the boards from warping? The Kreg system looks pretty good, too, but if the slot is there, might as well use it. No issues with another surface for water penetration? Been down for a year now. No cupping, warping, or anything else. I used the screw that came with the clips. If you do go that way, I have nearly a full box of the kit that I'll sell you very cheap. You need a torx bit for the screws. Good information. No, it'll be at least a couple of years before I replace the deck. We're talking about expanding it across the back of the house but it'll have to wait until the house is paid off. You can drill, countersink, then plug the holes but that seems like too much work. For the few where space is tight, that's an option. I've also seen fastening systems that come from the bottom. That's a possibility since the deck is ~10' off the ground (no stairs, which is another problem). It really does look nice. I made the mistake of sending the link to SWMBO. The PT deck was over 20 years and was getting ugly. This looks first class, has nice coloring. If you like the look of wood, it is worth considering. Exactly! Our house was built in '07 so the deck still has a way to go before it has to be replaced. I like the tigerwood look. If it's not a huge deal to maintain it looks to me to be the way to go. I'd have to consider options for the railings, though. White paint would look nice but it's a PITA to maintain. I suppose the framing is just PT? |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:56 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter