Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4? Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear
out the wall and replace the 1/2 in. behind it.

So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before it
disappears behind the walls.

thanks
richard

On 3/17/2013 6:36 PM, wrote:
Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4? Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear
out the wall and replace the 1/2 in. behind it.

So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before it
disappears behind the walls.

thanks
richard


Richard, have you checked your water pressure? Is the 1/2" pipe copper
or galvanized iron? I've seen a number of older homes that had the water
line from the meter replaced with a 3/4" copper but hooked into older
iron pipe that contained flow restricting deposits. A bit more
information about your situation would help and someone here may have
replaced their older 1/2" pipe with the more modern PEX tubing and tell
you how they did it. ^_^

TDD

On Mar 17, 8:48*pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 3/17/2013 6:36 PM, wrote:









Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4? Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear
out the wall and replace the 1/2 in. behind it.

So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before it
disappears behind the walls.

thanks
richard

Richard, have you checked your water pressure? Is the 1/2" pipe copper
or galvanized iron? I've seen a number of older homes that had the water
line from the meter replaced with a 3/4" copper but hooked into older
iron pipe that contained flow restricting deposits. A bit more
information about your situation would help and someone here may have
replaced their older 1/2" pipe with the more modern PEX tubing and tell
you how they did it. ^_^

TDD

Service from meter was recently replaced (galvanized to 3/4 copper) -
not much pipe left with all the deposit. In the crawl space is where
the 1/2 copper lines are (it came that way with the house).

Pressure is good on the 3/4 side or when only 1 faucet is running. A
little weak when another is opened.

On 3/17/2013 9:31 PM, wrote:
On Mar 17, 8:48 pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 3/17/2013 6:36 PM, wrote:









Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4? Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear
out the wall and replace the 1/2 in. behind it.

So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before it
disappears behind the walls.

thanks
richard

Richard, have you checked your water pressure? Is the 1/2" pipe copper
or galvanized iron? I've seen a number of older homes that had the water
line from the meter replaced with a 3/4" copper but hooked into older
iron pipe that contained flow restricting deposits. A bit more
information about your situation would help and someone here may have
replaced their older 1/2" pipe with the more modern PEX tubing and tell
you how they did it. ^_^

TDD

Service from meter was recently replaced (galvanized to 3/4 copper) -
not much pipe left with all the deposit. In the crawl space is where
the 1/2 copper lines are (it came that way with the house).

Pressure is good on the 3/4 side or when only 1 faucet is running. A
little weak when another is opened.


Most pressure regulators for home use in The U.S. are factory set to
50psi and can be adjusted up or down as you choose. I always recommend
a pressure regulator on domestic potable water supplies to homes and
businesses because of the damage pressure spikes can do to the water
heater and its TP safety, the toilet float valve and the sink faucets.
You didn't mention a pressure regulator or what your actual water
pressure happens to be. You can replace the 1/2" copper with PEX tubing
which I believe would give you more flow but I'm curious as to what your
water pressure is as measured in psi. o_O

http://www.watts.com/pages/_products...ls.asp?pid=776

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Watts-3-4...IWTG/100175467

http://tinyurl.com/bn8jmnt

TDD

Richard:

Can you find the point where the 1/2 inch water supply line under the house separates into two 1/2 inch lines; one supplying cold water to the house and the other supplying water to the water heater?

If so, then I'd replace the 1/2 inch copper pipe up to that branch with 3/4 inch copper pipe. Then, at least, you have full hot water pressure to one fixture or appliance, and full cold water pressure to another fixture or appliance at the same time.

However, as it stands now, that 1/2 inch pipe under your house now is a bottle neck, and it's most of the reason for the lower water pressure whenever any two faucets are opened.

Obviously, a better situation would be to have 3/4 inch copper piping throughout your house, and tap off each supply line with a 3/4 X 3/4 X 1/2 tee at each appliance or plumbing fixture so that any two appliances or plumbing fixtures can have full flow to them at the same time. That way, one person can have a shower without fear of being scalded if someone else flushes a toilet somewhere else in the house.

Redoing the water supply piping with Pex is something I've never done, but I've been told that it's much easier than using rigid copper tubing because the Pex tubing is flexible, so that you can run it around corners instead of having to cut the tubing and use an elbow.

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 17:36:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote in
Re
water pipe "upgrade":

Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4?

It won't hurt and can only help. Give it a try.

the problem is the remaining galvanized , its interior is almost
certinally clogged with rust, restricting flow.

when this occurs it starts leaking. I would replace all of it with
PEX, its far cheaper than copper...

or you can wait till the flow stops and leaks occur. hopefully they
wouldnt do a lot of damage

On Mar 18, 2:55*am, nestork wrote:
;3031415 Wrote:

*Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the piping with 3/4?
Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear out the wall and
replace the 1/2 in. behind it.
So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before it
disappears behind the walls.

Richard:

Can you find the point where the 1/2 inch water supply line under the
house separates into two 1/2 inch lines; one supplying cold water to the
house and the other supplying water to the water heater?

If so, then I'd replace the 1/2 inch copper pipe up to that branch with
3/4 inch copper pipe.

Bingo. If he can get the 3/4" to where it branches into multiple
1/2",
then I think he has a good chance of seeing improvement. Just
replacing one section of 1/2" that then has another remaining 1/2"
section directly ahead of it isn't likely to make an improvement worth
doing.

And as others have said, if there is any galvanized left, that is
likely
a big part of the problem. As it gets old, it corrodes from the
inside
and gradually the opening reduces, restricting the flow.....

On Mar 18, 6:10*am, bob haller wrote:
the problem is the remaining galvanized , its interior is almost
certinally clogged with rust, restricting flow.

when this occurs it starts leaking. I would replace all of it with
PEX, its far cheaper than copper...

or you can wait till the flow stops and leaks occur. hopefully they
wouldnt do a lot of damage

Bob,

Fortunately, the only galvanized section left was the one taken out
(from meter to about 6 ft in from the foundation wall). I had to,
there wasn't much left inside that pipe from all the deposit. Also had
a shut-off installed. The old one had one of those with square rod
sticking through the woodfloor. That shut-off wouldn't even turn,
tried to turn it off once and the rod twisted.

Previous owner had the pipes from that point replaced with 1/2 copper.
The plumber that ran the 3/4 from the meter recommended replacing the
1/2 in copper to the point where it enters the bath walls.

I'll check around on PEX.

thanks folks,
richard

wrote:
Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4? Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear
out the wall and replace the 1/2 in. behind it.

So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before it
disappears behind the walls.

thanks
richard

I read all of the posts on this so far.

Do you mean the 3/4 is visible in the crawl space (and is not "under" the
crawl space)?

If so, where is the hot water heater in relation to the 3/4 copper that is
in the crawl space?

My thinking is (as others have suggested) that if you can figure out a
relatively easy way to get the 3/4 copper supply to the hot water heater,
you can make a huge improvement in the water pressure by doing that. The
idea is to have 3/4 copper all the way until it splits off to a 1/2 copper
to the cold water and a 1/2 copper to the hot water heater.

I may not be describing this very well, but where is the hot water tank in
relation to the existing 3/4 copper? Is it easy to get the 3/4 from where
it is now to the hot water heater?

In article ,
wrote:
Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4? Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear
out the wall and replace the 1/2 in. behind it.

So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before it
disappears behind the walls.

thanks
richard

Tough to tell if it is worth it without knowing the total length involved,
length that currently is 3/4", and how much of the 1/2" you can replace
with 3/4".

--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

On Mar 18, 6:29*pm, (Larry W) wrote:
In article ,





wrote:
Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4? Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear
out the wall and replace the 1/2 in. behind it.

So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before it
disappears behind the walls.

thanks
richard

Tough to tell if it is worth it without knowing the total length involved,
length that currently is 3/4", and how much of the 1/2" you can replace
with 3/4".

--
* * *Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

* * *Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

had a poor flow some years go on a hot line to my bathroom. I have
all copper so that wasnt it.

When I finally gott around to fixing it I found it near impossible to
close my ball valve hot to the bathroom

I ended up sticking a piece of pipe over the end of the ball valve
lever and had to rock it to finally close it......

Anyhow when I was done I opened the valve and found gravel came out of
my tub spout. Flow was great

Conclusion:......

There had been a water line break nearby.....

Gravel got into the line and got stuck at the ball valve, slowing the
flow. When I had trouble closing the ball valve it disloged the rocks
which came out the tub spout when the water came back on.

If I were the OP I would replace as much as possible the 1/2 line and
replace all the valves espiclly if they are the old style which have
small passages for the water to pass at the valves

On Mar 18, 5:20*pm, "TomR" wrote:
wrote:
Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4? Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear
out the wall and replace the 1/2 in. behind it.

So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before it
disappears behind the walls.

thanks
richard

I read all of the posts on this so far.

Do you mean the 3/4 is visible in the crawl space (and is not "under" the
crawl space)?

If so, where is the hot water heater in relation to the 3/4 copper that is
in the crawl space?

My thinking is (as others have suggested) that if you can figure out a
relatively easy way to get the 3/4 copper supply to the hot water heater,
you can make a huge improvement in the water pressure by doing that. *The
idea is to have 3/4 copper all the way until it splits off to a 1/2 copper
to the cold water and a 1/2 copper to the hot water heater.

I may not be describing this very well, but where is the hot water tank in
relation to the existing 3/4 copper? *Is it easy to get the 3/4 from where
it is now to the hot water heater?

TomR,

Yes, pipes are "in" the crawl space and are visible. Water heater is
about 30ft from the 3/4 service (at the point where a reducer was
installed). I think I got your idea and will change out as much as I
can; other than those behind the walls which would be short runs.
Thought about PEX, tools for it are kind of pricey for a one time job.

thanks
richard

wrote:
On Mar 18, 5:20 pm, "TomR" wrote:
wrote:
Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4? Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear
out the wall and replace the 1/2 in. behind it.

So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before it
disappears behind the walls.

thanks
richard

I read all of the posts on this so far.

Do you mean the 3/4 is visible in the crawl space (and is not "under" the
crawl space)?

If so, where is the hot water heater in relation to the 3/4 copper that is
in the crawl space?

My thinking is (as others have suggested) that if you can figure out a
relatively easy way to get the 3/4 copper supply to the hot water heater,
you can make a huge improvement in the water pressure by doing that. The
idea is to have 3/4 copper all the way until it splits off to a 1/2 copper
to the cold water and a 1/2 copper to the hot water heater.

I may not be describing this very well, but where is the hot water tank in
relation to the existing 3/4 copper? Is it easy to get the 3/4 from where
it is now to the hot water heater?

TomR,

Yes, pipes are "in" the crawl space and are visible. Water heater is
about 30ft from the 3/4 service (at the point where a reducer was
installed). I think I got your idea and will change out as much as I
can; other than those behind the walls which would be short runs.
Thought about PEX, tools for it are kind of pricey for a one time job.

thanks
richard

Hi,
You can rent the crimping tool(the good one) from HD. That's what I did
when I needed it one time. Our house is running at 60 psi water
pressure. I had to adjust press. regulator. Incoming pressure is over 80
psi.

On Mar 19, 8:16*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 18, 5:20 pm, "TomR" wrote:
wrote:
Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4? Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear
out the wall and replace the 1/2 in. behind it.

So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before it
disappears behind the walls.

thanks
richard

I read all of the posts on this so far.

Do you mean the 3/4 is visible in the crawl space (and is not "under" the
crawl space)?

If so, where is the hot water heater in relation to the 3/4 copper that is
in the crawl space?

My thinking is (as others have suggested) that if you can figure out a
relatively easy way to get the 3/4 copper supply to the hot water heater,
you can make a huge improvement in the water pressure by doing that. *The
idea is to have 3/4 copper all the way until it splits off to a 1/2 copper
to the cold water and a 1/2 copper to the hot water heater.

I may not be describing this very well, but where is the hot water tank in
relation to the existing 3/4 copper? *Is it easy to get the 3/4 from where
it is now to the hot water heater?

TomR,

Yes, pipes are "in" the crawl space and are visible. Water heater is
about 30ft from the 3/4 service (at the point where a reducer was
installed). I think I got your idea and will change out as much as I
can; other than those behind the walls which would be short runs.
Thought about PEX, tools for it are kind of pricey for a one time job.

thanks
richard

Hi,
You can rent the crimping tool(the good one) from HD. That's what I did
when I needed it one time. Our house is running at 60 psi water
pressure. I had to adjust press. regulator. Incoming pressure is over 80
psi.

thanks! that'll work

In article 27087625-320e-41af-acce-5eeab366d185@
5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com, says...

Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4?...


Yes, you will get much better flow with 3/4" pipes!

And very good flow to a shower if you don't have a flow restricting
shower head/faucet. Especially good if someone turns on a faucet
somewhere else while taking a shower. Barely noticed.

But with that said, some faucets only have a 3/8 inch connection like a
bathroom faucet. In that case it is better to run the hot water for the
faucet 1/2" up to where it connects to another line. Then you will get
the hot water sooner (like first thing in the morning).

And then good to run 1" lines outside prior to entering the home - for
good flow to garden hoses AND the house. Some city building codes
require a 1" main line.

wrote:
On Mar 18, 5:20 pm, "TomR" wrote:
wrote:
Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4? Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear
out the wall and replace the 1/2 in. behind it.

So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before
it disappears behind the walls.

thanks
richard

I read all of the posts on this so far.

Do you mean the 3/4 is visible in the crawl space (and is not
"under" the crawl space)?

If so, where is the hot water heater in relation to the 3/4 copper
that is in the crawl space?

My thinking is (as others have suggested) that if you can figure out
a relatively easy way to get the 3/4 copper supply to the hot water
heater, you can make a huge improvement in the water pressure by
doing that. The idea is to have 3/4 copper all the way until it
splits off to a 1/2 copper to the cold water and a 1/2 copper to the
hot water heater.

I may not be describing this very well, but where is the hot water
tank in relation to the existing 3/4 copper? Is it easy to get the
3/4 from where it is now to the hot water heater?

TomR,

Yes, pipes are "in" the crawl space and are visible. Water heater is
about 30ft from the 3/4 service (at the point where a reducer was
installed). I think I got your idea and will change out as much as I
can; other than those behind the walls which would be short runs.
Thought about PEX, tools for it are kind of pricey for a one time job.

thanks
richard

Sounds like you may have a plan that will work.

The key to the plan is that the supply pipe needs to be all 3/4 all the way
until it gets to the hot water heater. Any cold water lines can come
directly off of the 3/4 line and be 1/2 inch -- that's okay. But there
can't be any part where the 3/4 main supply line drops down to 1/2 before it
gets to the hot water heater -- except AFTER the last cold water line comes
directly off of the 3/4 line. In other words, you can't have anyplace where
the main incoming line is 1/2 inch and splits off from the 1/2 inch to one
line for the hot and one line for the cold.

It is a little hard to explain, but if there is any portion (even a very
short run) of the main incoming supply line that drops down to 1/2 inch
before it gets to the hot water heater (after the last cold water line tees
off of the 3/4 line), that will defeat the whole effort. So, if you mean
that the new 3/4 will go to the wall somewhere, then drop to 1/2 in the
wall, then comes back out of the wall someplace else as 1/2 and switches
back to 3/4 to go on to the hot water heater, that won't work. It has to be
all 3/4 all the way to the hot water heater, but any tees (not 90's)
directly off of the 3/4 line can be 1/2 inch.

On Mar 20, 10:35*am, "TomR" wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 18, 5:20 pm, "TomR" wrote:
wrote:
Hello all,

House has got a 3/4 copper running from the meter to just a few feet
under the crawl space. It then reduced to a 1/2 inch.

Pressure and flow is there but a hair weak when I had more than one
faucet running. Is it worth it to upsize the accessible part of the
piping with 3/4? Some were ran behind the walls, Don't want to tear
out the wall and replace the 1/2 in. behind it.

So, it will end up with 3/4 for most, reduced it to 1/2 just before
it disappears behind the walls.

thanks
richard

I read all of the posts on this so far.

Do you mean the 3/4 is visible in the crawl space (and is not
"under" the crawl space)?

If so, where is the hot water heater in relation to the 3/4 copper
that is in the crawl space?

My thinking is (as others have suggested) that if you can figure out
a relatively easy way to get the 3/4 copper supply to the hot water
heater, you can make a huge improvement in the water pressure by
doing that. The idea is to have 3/4 copper all the way until it
splits off to a 1/2 copper to the cold water and a 1/2 copper to the
hot water heater.

I may not be describing this very well, but where is the hot water
tank in relation to the existing 3/4 copper? Is it easy to get the
3/4 from where it is now to the hot water heater?

TomR,

Yes, pipes are "in" the crawl space and are visible. Water heater is
about 30ft from the 3/4 service (at the point where a reducer was
installed). I think I got your idea and will change out as much as I
can; other than those behind the walls which would be short runs.
Thought about PEX, tools for it are kind of pricey for a one time job.

thanks
richard

Sounds like you may have a plan that will work.

The key to the plan is that the supply pipe needs to be all 3/4 all the way
until it gets to the hot water heater. *Any cold water lines can come
directly off of the 3/4 line and be 1/2 inch -- that's okay. *But there
can't be any part where the 3/4 main supply line drops down to 1/2 before it
gets to the hot water heater -- except AFTER the last cold water line comes
directly off of the 3/4 line. *In other words, you can't have anyplace where
the main incoming line is 1/2 inch and splits off from the 1/2 inch to one
line for the hot and one line for the cold.

It is a little hard to explain, but if there is any portion (even a very
short run) of the main incoming supply line that drops down to 1/2 inch
before it gets to the hot water heater (after the last cold water line tees
off of the 3/4 line), that will defeat the whole effort. *So, if you mean
that the new 3/4 will go to the wall somewhere, then drop to 1/2 in the
wall, then comes back out of the wall someplace else as 1/2 and switches
back to 3/4 to go on to the hot water heater, that won't work. *It has to be
all 3/4 all the way to the hot water heater, but any tees (not 90's)
directly off of the 3/4 line can be 1/2 inch.

Think a nasty busy stretch of road that causes traffic jams