This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

On 1/16/2013 7:06 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
....

... I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

Code can't protect either

a) shoddy workmanship that had the door hinge/latch so poorly aligned it
didn't catch, or

b) somebody not closing the door the last time thru.

Or, of course, maybe as tragic as it is, grandma accidentally opened the
door herself by grabbing the knob.

--

I don't know if there is anything adresses this. But, it sure makes sense.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

In any of those cases, a door that swings out from the stairs would have
helped. And, she might be alive.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"dpb" wrote in message ...

Code can't protect either

a) shoddy workmanship that had the door hinge/latch so poorly aligned it
didn't catch, or

b) somebody not closing the door the last time thru.

Or, of course, maybe as tragic as it is, grandma accidentally opened the
door herself by grabbing the knob.

One house I looked at before we decided on our present one had the
basement stairway (without a door) immediately across the narrow hallway
from the front door. I could imagine somebody welcoming visitors and
stepping back too far and plunging down the stairs. It may not have been
a code violation, but it certainly seemed an unwise design.

Perce


On 01/16/13 09:02 am, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I don't know if there is anything adresses this. But, it sure makes sense.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"The Daring wrote in message
...
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

On Jan 16, 9:35*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
In any of those cases, a door that swings out from the stairs would have
helped. And, she might be alive.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.


And at least around here, you have to have a new
home being built inspected, in which case code could
indeed prevent this, provided the code inspector found
it. I suspect it already is code in most places.

I've never seen a door open over stairs like that. It
seems very odd. For one thing, it puts the door in
the way, right where you could hit it with your head
on the way up the stairs. I have seen doors open
into stairwells where there is a substantial landing
there. One that is large enough so that even if you
pushed against the door and opened, you'd fall onto
the landing, not down the stairs.













"dpb" wrote in ....

Code can't protect either

a) shoddy workmanship that had the door hinge/latch so poorly aligned it
didn't catch, or

b) somebody not closing the door the last time thru.

Or, of course, maybe as tragic as it is, grandma accidentally opened the
door herself by grabbing the knob.

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:36:53 AM UTC-3:30, The Daring Dufas wrote:
I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

In my neck of the woods there are rules regarding this. The preferred approach is to have doors open away from stairs. If a door opens towards the stairs, no part of the door can "hang" over the first step when opened.

Having said that, I've seen lots of local examples of older construction (25+ years) where doors open toward (and over) stairs.

On 1/16/2013 8:06 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

That is terribly sad. I'm of the age (and experience as a nurse) that I
am paranoid about trip/fall hazards. We have such a stairway which we
both check more often than we check the exterior doors...it has a very
sturdy swiveling hook to latch the door...if left unlocked, it is not
hard to imagine someone just leaning against or bumping the door and
going down the stairs. When we get settled, I'm going to rig a ramp to
slide bags of salt and laundry baskets down )

Keep up to date on eye exams, keep lighting sufficient to see obstacles
(I have night lights all over the place).

Our front steps are redwood stained wood with no hand rail; rarely use
the front door, but would like to find something (other than paint-on
granules) to make the steps slip proof. Moved too late in the year to
take care of the steps, but want to make it safer for visitors.

My only serious fall has been the one time I tried out my son's
skateboard. Possible mild concussion? Worked that night as usual, so
was in hospital in case anything serious showed up )

dpb wrote:
On 1/16/2013 7:06 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
...

... I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

Code can't protect either

a) shoddy workmanship that had the door hinge/latch so poorly aligned it
didn't catch, or

b) somebody not closing the door the last time thru.

Or, of course, maybe as tragic as it is, grandma accidentally opened the
door herself by grabbing the knob.

--

Hi,
Any amount of code could't prevent an accodent.

Remember, code is the worst you are allowed to build.

(you can and should build better than code - it is a minimum standard not a desirable one)

wrote:
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:36:53 AM UTC-3:30, The Daring Dufas wrote:
I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

In my neck of the woods there are rules regarding this. The preferred approach is to have doors open away from stairs. If a door opens towards the stairs, no part of the door can "hang" over the first step when opened.

Having said that, I've seen lots of local examples of older construction (25+ years) where doors open toward (and over) stairs.

Hi,
My house is 20 years old with fully finished basement. No door to
staircase going down to basement. Staircase is U shaped with two
landings and hand rails along the way down.

On Jan 16, 1:06*pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

In the UK doors must open on to a landing, not directly on to
stairs.
Also long uninterupted stairs are not allowed, there has to be
landings at intervals.

On Jan 16, 4:33*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 1/16/2013 7:06 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
...

... I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

Code can't protect either

a) shoddy workmanship that had the door hinge/latch so poorly aligned it
didn't catch, or

b) somebody not closing the door the last time thru.

Or, of course, maybe as tragic as it is, grandma accidentally opened the
door herself by grabbing the knob.

--

Hi,
Any amount of code could't prevent an accodent.

They minimise accidents.
Quite likely this one wouldn't have happened with a properly designed
staircase.

On Jan 16, 6:56*am, "
wrote:
On Jan 16, 9:35*am, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
In any of those cases, a door that swings out from the stairs would have
helped. And, she might be alive.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

And at least around here, you have to have a new
home being built inspected, in which case code could
indeed prevent this, provided the code inspector found
it. *I suspect it already is code in most places.

I've never seen a door open over stairs like that. *It
seems very odd. *For one thing, it puts the door in
the way, right where you could hit it with your head
on the way up the stairs. * I have seen doors open
into stairwells where there is a substantial landing
there. *One that is large enough so that even if you
pushed against the door and opened, you'd fall onto
the landing, not down the stairs.



snip

You'd have to be leaning way forward to hit your head on the door
coming up the sstairs.
I'm in a 40s something house, basement stair doors opens into the
stairway.

Harry K

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 12:59:45 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

We do have some codes that are a big help.
Hand rails on staircases, grounded outlets,
and so on. I think a correct door swing could
have made a difference.

As could a landing at the top of the stairs.

Tony Hwang wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 1/16/2013 7:06 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
...

... I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

Code can't protect either

a) shoddy workmanship that had the door hinge/latch so poorly aligned it
didn't catch, or

b) somebody not closing the door the last time thru.

Or, of course, maybe as tragic as it is, grandma accidentally opened the
door herself by grabbing the knob.

--

Hi,
Any amount of code could't prevent an accodent.

No, but it can lessen the impact of that accident.

So, so many examples.

A GFCI doesn't prevent the accident, but it prevents the death that would
otherwise have resulted.

Air bags don't prevent the accident, but they often prevent the death that
might otherwise have resulted.

Lead paint bans don't prevent the accidental ingestion, but they prevent
the brain damage that might otherwise have resulted.

I could go on all day.

"Norminn" wrote

That is terribly sad. I'm of the age (and experience as a nurse) that I
am paranoid about trip/fall hazards.

MIL turned 90 the other day. When we go shopping, she gets in the back seat
of the truck, a hefty step up. Problem comes when disembarking.

I don't care if she has two twenty pound sacks of sugar, a forty of potatos,
and two sacks of softener salt, she wants to get every fricking thing she
can in her arms before she then tries to climb down.

I've mentioned it to her many times, and always try to jump back there by
the door so I can help her. I have the kiddie door locks, and can fix it so
she can't open the door, but she knows where those are, and she just slides
them open.

She's going to bust her butt one of these days, and I'll be sad, but you
can't tell someone who knows everything anything.

Steve

On 1/16/2013 5:46 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Norminn" wrote

That is terribly sad. I'm of the age (and experience as a nurse) that I
am paranoid about trip/fall hazards.

MIL turned 90 the other day. When we go shopping, she gets in the back seat
of the truck, a hefty step up. Problem comes when disembarking.

I don't care if she has two twenty pound sacks of sugar, a forty of potatos,
and two sacks of softener salt, she wants to get every fricking thing she
can in her arms before she then tries to climb down.

I've mentioned it to her many times, and always try to jump back there by
the door so I can help her. I have the kiddie door locks, and can fix it so
she can't open the door, but she knows where those are, and she just slides
them open.

She's going to bust her butt one of these days, and I'll be sad, but you
can't tell someone who knows everything anything.

Steve



LOL...you are still the kid. I still chuckle when I remember a dear old
friend, aged about 88, chewing out her son, age 62, for letting his
daughter drive grandpa's Caddy to the nursing home to visit him. Son
had given mom and dad the Caddy. After her hubby died, I used to drive
her around for lunch, shopping, dr. appt. She had her first heart
attack with cardiac arrest at age 72. Had strokes, broken hip,
shingles, heart failure from time to time....she refused to use her cane
when she went to the doc because she didn't want him to think of her as
a sick old woman. Her heart was so weak that if she walked into the
kitchen from the living room, she might have to sit down and rest before
she walked back....didn't stop her...if she had company for lunch and
wanted to set a nice table, she might start 3 or 4 days in advance to
get the table ready. She arrange flowers from her yard for a
centerpiece and fell once while in the yard...made me promise not to
tell her son. I promised, but told him anyway, under threat of death if
he let on or started making noise about putting her in a home. Folks
don't live to 90 because they are wimps ) She was close to 40 years
older than I, but the best and most interesting friend.

My mom, at age 80, decided to gift herself by hiring someone to clean
the gutters on her one-story home. Only once. Not good enough. She
resumed doing it herself, much to the consternation of her neighbors.
When she was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, she wasn't too bad
about the idea of dying, but royally ****ed that she had to be in bed to
do it )

In our new neighborhood, one neighbor and his kids have already been
over to shovel our driveway...I might start acting feebler; get more
freebies from the neighbors )

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. Even
with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at
the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some
point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for
a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in".
Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the
door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.

On Jan 17, 1:57*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas





wrote:
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. *Even
with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at
the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some
point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for
a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in".
Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the
door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

95%+ of residential basement stairs I've seen don't have any
landing at the top. And it must not be much of a problem,
because the cases of someone doing what you suggest seem
to be rare. It would have to be dark not only in the stairwell, but
also in the area inside the house by the door. And it would
seem that if that is the case, then with your example of someone
walking around in pitch black, thinking they are entering a room,
wouldn't they then just walk off the 3 foot landing anyway?

On Jan 17, 9:07*am, "
wrote:
On Jan 17, 1:57*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:





On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas

wrote:
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend..
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. *Even
with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at
the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some
point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for
a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in".
Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the
door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

95%+ of residential basement stairs I've seen don't have any
landing at the top. *And it must not be much of a problem,
because the cases of someone doing what you suggest seem
to be rare. It would have to be dark not only in the stairwell, but
also in the area inside the house by the door. *And it would
seem that if that is the case, then with your example of someone
walking around in pitch black, thinking they are entering a room,
wouldn't they then just walk off the 3 foot landing anyway?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As far as walking off of the landing, in many cases the landing is a
step down from room above, and often at a right angle to the stairs.
At least that's the way it is in many of the house I've seen/lived in.
Therefore, if I thought I was walking into a room, that first step
down would hurt, but I don't think I'd fall down the stairs. Of
course, I don't plan on proving myself right any time soon. ;-)

I find your 95%+ with no landing to be an interesting number. I'll
have to keep an eye out on that. In my experience (or maybe just in my
mind) I would say it is the exact opposite.

Very often, at least in my experience, there is an exterior door
associated with the basement stairs, such as an entrance from the
garage or from the side or back yard. Since there is usually a storm
door associated with this entranceway, the entry door opens in over a
landing. For example, at my house, if you come in from the garage you
would cross the landing and step up into the kitchen or turn right and
go down the basement steps. At my parent's and sister's houses, you
would come in from the yard, cross the landing and go down the steps
or turn right and step up into the kitchen.

I'll have to ask some of coworkers to see how many landings there are
in our small group.

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:30:21 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:07*am, " wrote: On Jan 17, 1:57*am, Ashton Crusher wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend. The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o TDD My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. *Even with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in". Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - 95%+ of residential basement stairs I've seen don't have any landing at the top. *And it must not be much of a problem, because the cases of someone doing what you suggest seem to be rare. It would have to be dark not only in the stairwell, but also in the area inside the house by the door. *And it would seem that if that is the case, then with your example of someone walking around in pitch black, thinking they are entering a room, wouldn't they then just walk off the 3 foot landing anyway?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As far as walking off of the landing, in many cases the landing is a step down from room above, and often at a right angle to the stairs. At least that's the way it is in many of the house I've seen/lived in. Therefore, if I thought I was walking into a room, that first step down would hurt, but I don't think I'd fall down the stairs. Of course, I don't plan on proving myself right any time soon. ;-) I find your 95%+ with no landing to be an interesting number.

I have never seen a basement stair with a landing. I'm sure there are some out there but in my experience they are unusual.

There is another hazard to basement stairs. As you walk down, often there is an overhang. When you are directly below it, there is usually 8 feet of clearance, but on the way it is much lower. I have to duck, and if I tripped I'd bash my head into it. My wife and children are shorter and at no risk. Unless carrying an object, and that has surprised them a couple of times.

On Jan 17, 9:30*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:07*am, "
wrote:





On Jan 17, 1:57*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas

wrote:
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. *Even
with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at
the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some
point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for
a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in".
Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the
door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

95%+ of residential basement stairs I've seen don't have any
landing at the top. *And it must not be much of a problem,
because the cases of someone doing what you suggest seem
to be rare. It would have to be dark not only in the stairwell, but
also in the area inside the house by the door. *And it would
seem that if that is the case, then with your example of someone
walking around in pitch black, thinking they are entering a room,
wouldn't they then just walk off the 3 foot landing anyway?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As far as walking off of the landing, in many cases the landing is a
step down from room above, and often at a right angle to the stairs.
At least that's the way it is in many of the house I've seen/lived in.
Therefore, if I thought I was walking into a room, that first step
down would hurt, but I don't think I'd fall down the stairs. Of
course, I don't plan on proving myself right any time soon. ;-)

I find your 95%+ with no landing to be an interesting number. I'll
have to keep an eye out on that. In my experience (or maybe just in my
mind) I would say it is the exact opposite.

Very often, at least in my experience, there is an exterior door
associated with the basement stairs, such as an entrance from the
garage or from the side or back yard. Since there is usually a storm
door associated with this entranceway, the entry door opens in over a
landing. For example, at my house, if you come in from the garage you
would cross the landing and step up into the kitchen or turn right and
go down the basement steps. At my parent's and sister's houses, you
would come in from the yard, cross the landing and go down the steps
or turn right and step up into the kitchen.

I'll have to ask some of coworkers to see how many landings there are
in our small group.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just asked 4 coworkers about their basement stair configuration:

#1 - Three year old house - No door, 4 steps right off of the hallway
to a landing, turn to continue down. You could fall through the open
doorway and down to the landing.

#2 - Older house, remodeled to expand the kitchen. Originally the door
opened over steps, two steps down, landing, turn to continue down.
After remodel, door opens over steps, no landing, straight down to
basement (doorway and steps were moved.) You could lean on the door,
fall through and down to the basement.

#3 - Age of house unknown, door opens into hallway, no landing, stairs
go straight down. The door would have to be left open for someone to
fall down.

#4 - Five year old house, door opens into kitchen, no landing, stairs
go straight down. The door would have to be left open for someone to
fall down.

So, based on this small sample size, and the configuration of the
houses I am most familiar with (my family's) it's about 80% "landing
or door would prevent falling all the way into the basement", 20% "ow,
ouch, eeeeeeiiiii, splat".

On 1/17/2013 8:07 AM, wrote:
On Jan 17, 1:57 am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas





wrote:
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. Even
with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at
the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some
point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for
a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in".
Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the
door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

95%+ of residential basement stairs I've seen don't have any
landing at the top. And it must not be much of a problem,
because the cases of someone doing what you suggest seem
to be rare. It would have to be dark not only in the stairwell, but
also in the area inside the house by the door. And it would
seem that if that is the case, then with your example of someone
walking around in pitch black, thinking they are entering a room,
wouldn't they then just walk off the 3 foot landing anyway?


I know a few folks who peed in a closet when they were drunk thinking it
was the bathroom. ^_^

TDD

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 06:07:43 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 17, 1:57*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas





wrote:
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. *Even
with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at
the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some
point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for
a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in".
Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the
door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

95%+ of residential basement stairs I've seen don't have any
landing at the top. And it must not be much of a problem,
because the cases of someone doing what you suggest seem
to be rare. It would have to be dark not only in the stairwell, but
also in the area inside the house by the door. And it would
seem that if that is the case, then with your example of someone
walking around in pitch black, thinking they are entering a room,
wouldn't they then just walk off the 3 foot landing anyway?

I agree that 90% of residential basement stairs have no landing,
including mine[*]. A landing would cost valuable first-floor space so
isn't done. However, even a small landing would be beneficial so one
could clear the doorway before grabbing the rail. As it is, one
really has to lean forward to reach the rail or step down before
grabbing the rail.
[*] mine is worse, with a 90degree (two 45s) turn two steps down. I
hate angled steps. It's right below the second floor stairs, so the
same cut stairs are on both. Fortunately, I'm really the only one who
uses either.

On Jan 17, 9:30*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:07*am, "
wrote:





On Jan 17, 1:57*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas

wrote:
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. *Even
with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at
the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some
point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for
a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in".
Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the
door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

95%+ of residential basement stairs I've seen don't have any
landing at the top. *And it must not be much of a problem,
because the cases of someone doing what you suggest seem
to be rare. It would have to be dark not only in the stairwell, but
also in the area inside the house by the door. *And it would
seem that if that is the case, then with your example of someone
walking around in pitch black, thinking they are entering a room,
wouldn't they then just walk off the 3 foot landing anyway?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As far as walking off of the landing, in many cases the landing is a
step down from room above, and often at a right angle to the stairs.
At least that's the way it is in many of the house I've seen/lived in.
Therefore, if I thought I was walking into a room, that first step
down would hurt, but I don't think I'd fall down the stairs. Of
course, I don't plan on proving myself right any time soon. ;-)

I find your 95%+ with no landing to be an interesting number. I'll
have to keep an eye out on that. In my experience (or maybe just in my
mind) I would say it is the exact opposite.

Very often, at least in my experience, there is an exterior door
associated with the basement stairs, such as an entrance from the
garage or from the side or back yard. Since there is usually a storm
door associated with this entranceway, the entry door opens in over a
landing. For example, at my house, if you come in from the garage you
would cross the landing and step up into the kitchen or turn right and
go down the basement steps.
At my parent's and sister's houses, you
would come in from the yard, cross the landing and go down the steps
or turn right and step up into the kitchen.

I'll have to ask some of coworkers to see how many landings there are
in our small group.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, those are exactly the arrangements that I have
seen where there is a landing too. But around here,
they are confined to old homes. A friend for example
has a house like that, but it's 100 years old. My
grandparents had a house they rented out that was
about that age too. Both of those, the back entrance
was as you describe. Around here there are so many
new houses and I've never seen that arrangement
in those. If you live in an area with a more substantial
ratio of old houses, then I agree they could be more
common.

On Jan 17, 10:36*am, "
wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:30*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:



On Jan 17, 9:07*am, "
wrote:

On Jan 17, 1:57*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas

wrote:
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. *Even
with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at
the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some
point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for
a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in"..
Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the
door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

95%+ of residential basement stairs I've seen don't have any
landing at the top. *And it must not be much of a problem,
because the cases of someone doing what you suggest seem
to be rare. It would have to be dark not only in the stairwell, but
also in the area inside the house by the door. *And it would
seem that if that is the case, then with your example of someone
walking around in pitch black, thinking they are entering a room,
wouldn't they then just walk off the 3 foot landing anyway?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As far as walking off of the landing, in many cases the landing is a
step down from room above, and often at a right angle to the stairs.
At least that's the way it is in many of the house I've seen/lived in.
Therefore, if I thought I was walking into a room, that first step
down would hurt, but I don't think I'd fall down the stairs. Of
course, I don't plan on proving myself right any time soon. ;-)

I find your 95%+ with no landing to be an interesting number. I'll
have to keep an eye out on that. In my experience (or maybe just in my
mind) I would say it is the exact opposite.

Very often, at least in my experience, there is an exterior door
associated with the basement stairs, such as an entrance from the
garage or from the side or back yard. Since there is usually a storm
door associated with this entranceway, the entry door opens in over a
landing. For example, at my house, if you come in from the garage you
would cross the landing and step up into the kitchen or turn right and
go down the basement steps.

*At my parent's and sister's houses, you

would come in from the yard, cross the landing and go down the steps
or turn right and step up into the kitchen.

I'll have to ask some of coworkers to see how many landings there are
in our small group.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, those are exactly the arrangements that I have
seen where there is a landing too. *But around here,
they are confined to old homes. *A friend for example
has a house like that, but it's 100 years old. *My
grandparents had a house they rented out that was
about that age too. *Both of those, the back entrance
was as you describe. *Around here there are so many
new houses and I've never seen that arrangement
in those. *If you live in an area with a more substantial
ratio of old houses, then I agree they could be more
common.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another item to add to the discussion is the angle of the steps.

When we were house hunting, my first stop was usually the basement
since you can learn so, so much about a house from down there.

In many cases, I could tell if the house stood a chance with my wife
just by going down the basement stairs. If they were too steep (like
before current codes) I knew my wife would balk. Her fear of heights
is so strong that steep steps are a real issue.

There were some houses where I would go down the steep stairs and then
turn around to what it would take to "un-steep" them in case we liked
everything else about the house.

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 07:04:16 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:30:21 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:07*am, " wrote: On Jan 17, 1:57*am, Ashton Crusher wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend. The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o TDD My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. *Even with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in". Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - 95%+ of residential basement stairs I've seen don't have any landing
at the top. *And it must not be much of a problem, because the cases of someone doing what you suggest seem to be rare. It would have to be dark not only in the stairwell, but also in the area inside the house by the door. *And it would seem that if that is the case, then with your example of someone walking around in pitch black, thinking they are entering a room, wouldn't they then just walk off the 3 foot landing anyway?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As far as walking off of the landing, in many cases the landing is a step down from room above, and often at a right angle to the stairs. At least that's the way it is in many of the house I've seen/lived in. Therefore, if I thought I was walking into a room, that first step down would hurt, but I don't think I'd fall down the stairs. Of course, I don't plan on proving myself right any time soon. ;-) I find your 95%+ with no landing to be an interesting number.

I have never seen a basement stair with a landing. I'm sure there are some out there but in my experience they are unusual.

There is another hazard to basement stairs. As you walk down, often there is an overhang. When you are directly below it, there is usually 8 feet of clearance, but on the way it is much lower. I have to duck, and if I tripped I'd bash my head into it. My wife and children are shorter and at no risk. Unless carrying an object, and that has surprised them a couple of times.
Basement stair landings are not common but I have seen them in
larger higher-end homes. The big problem is to get the required run
on the stairs, the addition of a 3 foot landing makes the stairs not
fit across the end of half the basement, and with center bearing
walls, having more than half the basement width available for the
stairs is not easily accomplished. In larger "center stair" designs,
the stairs can go down parallel to the bearing wall/center beam,
lengthwise instead of across the house. Still takes up a lot od space,
but in a 4000 or 6000 sq ft house it is not an issue.

In smaller homes, I have seen a fair number of "landings" in stairways
as well, but they are half way down, to allow the stairs to make a 90
degree turn to fit them in less than 10 feet of space.

In my house there is no basement door, as the full base,ment is
finished living space. The original setup was an in-opening door, with
the open doorinterfering with the also in-opening garage door ( the
basement door covered the latch side of the garage door when open)

When the kids were small we had a strong gate across the door opening
to prevent them falling down the (carpetted) basement stairs.

On Jan 17, 10:04*am, TimR wrote:
On Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:30:21 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:07*am, " wrote: On Jan 17, 1:57*am, Ashton Crusher wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend. The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o TDD My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. *Even with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in". Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - 95%+ of residential basement stairs I've seen don't have any landing at the top. *And it must not be much of a problem, because the cases of someone doing what you suggest seem to be rare. It would have to be dark not only in the stairwell, but also in the area inside the house by the door. *And it would seem that if that is the case, then with your example of someone walking around in pitch black, thinking they are entering a room, wouldn't they then just walk off the 3 foot landing anyway?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As far as walking off of the landing, in many cases the landing is a step down from room above, and often at a right angle to the stairs. At least that's the way it is in many of the house I've seen/lived in. Therefore, if I thought I was walking into a room, that first step down would hurt, but I don't think I'd fall down the stairs. Of course, I don't plan on proving myself right any time soon. ;-) I find your 95%+ with no landing to be an interesting number.

I have never seen a basement stair with a landing. *I'm sure there are some out there but in my experience they are unusual.

There is another hazard to basement stairs. *As you walk down, often there is an overhang. *When you are directly below it, there is usually 8 feet of clearance, but on the way it is much lower. *I have to duck, and if I tripped I'd bash my head into it. *My wife and children are shorter and at no risk. *Unless carrying an object, and that has surprised them a couple of times.

I have an "overhang" above the stairs but I'm short so there's never
an issue.

The bottom of the floor joists are pretty low in my basement and some
of the large rectangular ductwork runs perpendicular (therefore below)
the joists. When I first moved in, it took me a little while to learn
to not duck as I walked under the ductwork. I clear it by about a
inch, which isn't much for the brain to judge. My brain kept telling
me to duck until I finally walked very slow underneath it and
convinced myself that I wouldn't hit it. Even after that, it took a
conscious effort not to duck until I retrained my brain.

It was like standing on those glass observation floors 100 stories up.
Part of your brain knows it's safe but you have to fight through your
survival instincts.

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 09:10:20 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 1/17/2013 8:07 AM, wrote:
On Jan 17, 1:57 am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas





wrote:
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. Even
with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at
the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some
point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for
a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in".
Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the
door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

95%+ of residential basement stairs I've seen don't have any
landing at the top. And it must not be much of a problem,
because the cases of someone doing what you suggest seem
to be rare. It would have to be dark not only in the stairwell, but
also in the area inside the house by the door. And it would
seem that if that is the case, then with your example of someone
walking around in pitch black, thinking they are entering a room,
wouldn't they then just walk off the 3 foot landing anyway?


I know a few folks who peed in a closet when they were drunk thinking it
was the bathroom. ^_^

TDD
Kid brother used to sleep-walk. Peed in the laundry hamper at least
twice. - stone sober and fast asleep.

On Jan 17, 11:35*am, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 09:10:20 -0600, The Daring Dufas





wrote:
On 1/17/2013 8:07 AM, wrote:
On Jan 17, 1:57 am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:06:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas

wrote:
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

My sister's house has a basement with a door that opens out. *Even
with that bit of safety I think having the stairs start immediately at
the top, just beyond the door, is asking for trouble since at some
point it seems like someone is going to mistake the basement door for
a bedroom door and in the dark/dim light open it and just "walk in".
Seems like putting a couple feet of landing,on the "other side" of the
door, at the top of these stairs would make them a lot safer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

95%+ of residential basement stairs I've seen don't have any
landing at the top. *And it must not be much of a problem,
because the cases of someone doing what you suggest seem
to be rare. It would have to be dark not only in the stairwell, but
also in the area inside the house by the door. *And it would
seem that if that is the case, then with your example of someone
walking around in pitch black, thinking they are entering a room,
wouldn't they then just walk off the 3 foot landing anyway?

I know a few folks who peed in a closet when they were drunk thinking it
was the bathroom. ^_^

TDD

*Kid brother used to sleep-walk. Peed in the laundry hamper at least
twice. - stone sober and fast asleep.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Better than peeing on his brother's bed.

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 07:59:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:


When we were house hunting, my first stop was usually the basement
since you can learn so, so much about a house from down there.

In many cases, I could tell if the house stood a chance with my wife
just by going down the basement stairs. If they were too steep (like
before current codes) I knew my wife would balk. Her fear of heights
is so strong that steep steps are a real issue.

There were some houses where I would go down the steep stairs and then
turn around to what it would take to "un-steep" them in case we liked
everything else about the house.
According to the 2005 Canadian building code, section 9.8.6.2 there
must be a landing between the door opening and top of the stairaw when
the door opens over the stairway. Lots of other interesting stuff
about stairways and building code at:
http://www.allwoodstairs.com/BC001.pdf

clipped

It was like standing on those glass observation floors 100 stories up.
Part of your brain knows it's safe but you have to fight through your
survival instincts.


I can get nauseated just looking at photos of that stuff...my fear of
heights developed somewhere in middle age ) Only time since that I
climbed higher than the second rung on a ladder was to paint the huge
address sign on the end of our two-story condo building....hubby was
building manager and I wasn't about to go through the hell of him
slopping green paint on a freshly painted white wall...condo boards are
unforgiving. No longer a problem )

On Jan 16, 2:46*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"Norminn" wrote

That is terribly sad. *I'm of the age (and experience as a nurse) that I
am paranoid about trip/fall hazards.

MIL turned 90 the other day. *When we go shopping, she gets in the back seat
of the truck, a hefty step up. *Problem comes when disembarking.

I don't care if she has two twenty pound sacks of sugar, a forty of potatos,
and two sacks of softener salt, she wants to get every fricking thing she
can in her arms before she then tries to climb down.

I've mentioned it to her many times, and always try to jump back there by
the door so I can help her. *I have the kiddie door locks, and can fix it so
she can't open the door, but she knows where those are, and she just slides
them open.

She's going to bust her butt one of these days, and I'll be sad, but you
can't tell someone who knows everything anything.

Steve

Amen to that...BTDT.

On Jan 16, 8:06*am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
This comes up because of a tragic accident with some folks I know. The
elderly grandmother, 88 was at home with her granddaughter, the
granddaughter's three young children and the granddaughter's boyfriend.
The boyfriend had just spoken to grandma then went into the room with
his gal when they heard an awful sound. Grandma had fallen down the
basement stairs to the concrete floor below. The boyfriend ran down to
check on grandma but she was fatally injured. What happened was the
door to the basement stairs opened into the stairwell and the latch was
defective and failed to hold when grandma was walking down the hallway
holding onto the walls to steady herself. When she put her weight
against the door, it sprang open and she fell through it and down the
stairs. It seems to me that most basement doors I've seen open out and
not into the stairwell. I don't know if there is a home-building code
regarding this or not but anyone building a house should consider the
safety of a door which opens into a stairwell. O_o

TDD

I'm sure older homes are grandfathered in, but I found this:

http://inspectapedia.com/Stairs/Stair_Landings.htm

"International Building Code 2000 (BOCA, ICBO, SBCCI)
1003.3.3.4 Stairway landings. There shall be a floor or landing at the
top and bottom of each stairway."

then:

"An interior door at the top of a flight of stairs need not have a
landing at the top of the stairs, provided the door swings away from
the stairs."

It doesn't say it, but that exception might also apply to stairways
with no door. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have a friend that
had a house built less than 3 years ago. The stairs to his basement
are accessed via an opening off of a hallway. The opening has no
door. There's 4 steps down and then a landing, but none at the top.